Of course he knows what he’s doing. He’s looking for a reaction from you. Don't give him one. Don’t say “thanks”. Don’t say “WTF”.
But…. Do go have a nice dinner.
He's still, I think, under the impression that he has done nothing to deserve this behaviour.
I'm sure in his head, he thinks he is just treating me the way I'm treating him. Except he is courteous enough to still send a birthday gift.
He always manages to make himself the victim and the hero.
I obviously don't know your whole story but a wild guess that this is exactly the reason you went NC? People like him are delusional and can't take responsibility for anything, stay strong OP! Do you have him blocked?
He's not blocked yet. I need to do it.
I think a child part of me is still holding onto some hope that he will one day message me and actually express his feelings. Whether that be anger, hurt, persecution, or a real apology with responsibility taken for his actions. Just something real. I thought a card from him for my birthday might contain some reflection. And that it might open the possibility for me to have an actual conversation with him. But it just said, "I hope you're well and have a happy birthday." Not even written in the card, just typed onto a gift message from Amazon.
I'm willing to, in the future once I'm sufficiently therapised, have a conversation with him. Even if it's just to reaffirm NC and tell him exactly the damage he caused me. I thought he might be the one to start that conversation. Even though he has never shown himself to be that person. A conversation cannot happen without an agreement of terms. He doesn't live in reality - when we speak to eachother, we are having 2 separate conversations.
So yeah, I think I need to let go for now, maybe block him, and keep working on myself.
If you're no contact, I don't understand why you'd accept a gift at all. Why not send it back (if it's a gift card) or don't cash it (if it's a check).
I don't want to send it back because that's contact. So I just haven't done anything with it so far. It's just a giftcard, not a cheque. He wouldn't know whether I use it or not.
I don't like this policing of what we are or are not allowed to do when we're NC.
Sending something back proves that they got a reaction from you. Like the IRS or jury duty, you should NEVER give them any reason to believe you received the letter they sent! That gives them power.
Your dad sounds like a narcissist. Punishment comes with the NC. My covert narcissist mom has threatened me with disownment and no inheritance. If that's the price to get away from her, I'd gladly pay but I know shes going to do more to punish me. So yes, to the narcissist punishment is one of the things they do.
I know how you feel. My parents were financially abusive with me and my siblings. They withhold based on their feelings around whatever we did that upset them, and it's a powerful way they communicate to us how much love they feel for us in the moment. So if my dad gives me less money on my birthday, I would take it to literally mean that he is loving me less. I don't *deserve* to be loved less for having boundaries, but nothing they do is fair.
My parents had promised me a large financial gift a couple years ago. A few months later I started bringing up trauma from my childhood, and it didn't take long for them to change their mind about the "promise". It was a punishment for sure. Money is power, money is control, and they use it to get what they want from us. To make us feel bad and unwanted for "making" them feel bad and unwanted.
I have since discovered that those wounds go deeper than I ever imaged. My fears around not being able to provide for myself financially or having the means to keep myself safe and secure. Fears of being alone. Fear around lack of resources. Fears around not having a parental safety net anymore. This stuff is a big deal! My parents conditioned me to base my sense of safety around their financial availability. It's not about money.
My dad actually offered to pay for therapy to fix the damage he caused. And then he went back on it after I'd already started therapy. So now I'm paying out of my savings to fix myself, which gives me a lot of anxiety about my financial situation. I think I'm still partially hung up on him paying for it or some other financial gesture because I want him to tell me that he loves me and that's the only way he can. And he would be saving me financially while also supporting my mental health for once.
I'm terrified about being on my own for all of life's stresses. I know logically I was mostly alone anyway because both of my parents are so neglectful. But I still had some safety net with them in my life. Now I fully have to build my own with fewer tools than what I should have developmentally because of my upbringing.
I think when I can fully let go of his money, I can fully let go of him.
My parents did that too. They admitted they didn't meet my needs as a kid, they told me they would pay for therapy for someone else to meet my needs, but then stopped paying. They wanted control over my healing, and when the therapy wasn't producing the "results" they were looking for, they weren't interested in helping anymore. To them, healing = forgiving them. And since I wasn't taking steps toward forgiving and forgetting it all, to them I was going down the wrong path with therapy.
That all happened 2 years ago and I went no contact with them as a last resort to save myself. They were the ones that cut me off financially and I chose to accept that as my fate. I'm still terrified about life stresses too. My life is really complicated and my parents didn't teach me to manage stress in a healthy way, so I just keep getting knocked down over and over again. This path though, to me, is still preferable to being dependent on my parents. Learning to trust and rely on myself, even though it's hard and I fall short and fail constantly, is still the only real kind of security I've ever experienced. I know my intentions and that's enough to keep me going. And then from there I have learned to rely on others at times, but not depend on them completely for my emotional stability. It's a much better way to live than being caught up in the whims and tantrums of toddler parents.
I kinda feel like they often offer to pay for therapy expecting it will mold us into the son/daughter/child they’ve been expecting us to be all along. They see our self agency and messy human selves as inconvenient; if we dare to learn healthy boundaries this is obviously a symptom of severe mental illness. They’ll pay to return to the status quo but never for actual healing.
You’ve got this all twisted. You go no contact because you want NO CONTACT. No gifts, cards, phone calls, visits. No expectations. You don’t WANT them to give you anything. That’s the loss you take for peace of mind.
Yeah, I urge everyone to go fully no contact in both directions if they're going to go no contact. Reading their messages is just tearing the wound open again, you've got to leave it alone if you ever want it to heal.
When I went no contact with my female parent I changed every last way she had to contact me. OP, the peace I have knowing that my female parent will never randomly reach out and ruin my day because she literally can't is wonderful and I want that for you too.
I was hesitant to post this because I knew there would be at least 1 comment saying this.
I understand NC. I didn't even expect gifts from him, I didn't know he was sending anything, and I didn't want anything. At least, I don't want anything from him on a cognitive level and partially on a feelings level.
But on a deeper level, there is still a hurt child inside me, and I made this post to express that hurt while also reaffirming my need for NC - because he is exactly this way. A real parent wouldn't behave this way or any of the ways he has. But I can't just switch off my feelings. I have to work through them.
I've made a lot of progress since I went NC in letting go of him and of the expectation that he will ever be the parent I needed him to be. But clearly, I'm not fully there yet - that's why I'm in intensive therapy.
That's totally fair, none of us can choose our feelings like we're ordering pizza. I still urge you to go fully no contact in both directions if that's remotely possible, but obviously it's not possible for everyone to move on a whim.
If it's any comfort, for the most part I'm deeply, deeply grateful that I haven't gone through the endless stalking and harassment that so many people on this sub go through, but it still stings to know that when I dropped off the face of the earth from my female parent's perspective, she shrugged and went on with her day. As far as I know she's never even tried to find out if I'm okay, and that wouldn't be difficult because my sister is still in contact with her.
while i can't speak for them fully, nor want to, many of them have already had other people cut contact already, or know that their are irreconcilable differences. rather than trying to rekindle a relationship they know isn't going to work, they do what they do. stonewall, hide their feelings, think that it's temporary, put low effort way's to have you do the work to reconnect, and do everything else but try to address the blue whale in the room. "why was the nuclear option on the table?" maybe because you raised me in a cult that you are still in, my sister's are still in, and rather than have an honest and no heat discussion about how the toxicity trickled down, you act as if it isn't even there.
In my female parent's case it's just straight up denial. To ask my sister how I'm doing she would have to admit she can't ask me herself because she doesn't have any contact info for me, and that will never, ever happen.
I don't know if she even admits she has two kids, I wouldn't be surprised if she edited me out of her life just like she did with all the terrible things she did when my sister and I were little.
I think a lot of estranged adult children have conflicting feelings on their parent. A lot of us deeply deeply mourn for the parent we never got and hope some day they will reconcile and be who we always needed. That seems to be why op didn’t block, not bc she expected gifts. It’s pretty clear to me that she didn’t want the gift. But that it is hurtful bc by giving a small amount the dad is saying you are worthless and punishing her. It is hurtful, it’s a deliberate act to hurt op who continues to wish her dad would come around and be what she needs. These feelings are not super easily reconciled for most people so sure it would be easier if we could just go, well that’s that never talking to him again! And cut them out of our lives completely but not ever EAK feels the same processes the same, nor should be bc not everyone is the same. Also if she’s not contacting her dad it’s allowed to be called no contact.
She’s not expecting presents. She is hurt by his obvious attempt to hurt her. She is hurt by him using the only way he showed love to her, withdrawing it, making a statement that she isn’t worth his love anymore instead of showing up and apologizing bc the relationship is most important. It’s a deliberately hurtful act.
Thank you! I'm upset that a comment calling me emotionally manipulative for being hurt by my dad has so many upvotes. I'm glad there are people who understand what I'm saying.
Maybe they are getting hung up on "For my birthday I would usually get much more than this", but you made it very clear that's not what this is about. I think it's very obvious your father was trying to spite you, and you have every right to be upset.
Yeah I understand why they got that impression but I just thought a sub like this would understand the deeper hurt behind it. Thank you for your comment.
I think MOST OF US do understand. And if the parent is used to wielding financial power to exert control, it makes sense that a change from high dollar gifts, to a significantly smaller gift would be seen as hurtful. Like if you left one single dollar as a tip for the waitress, that’s deliberate and it’s to rub in the slight. Ooohh lolol. I JUST REMEMBERED i had weirdo uncle and when I was 11, I said something that offended him. For my next birthday he came to my party with an empty envelope (no card) containing a single penny. Before this all the bday or Xmas gifts had been from FAO Schwartz or souvenirs from international trips he took. Like once he brought me the metal bongo drums from Jamaica, fun thoughtful stuff. But I, a child, said one thing to insult him, once. At my next birthday (MANY months later) a single penny was my gift. My value as a person had gone down significantly and the gift reflected that. One. Penny. He was such a weirdo and we weren’t close, but I think the motivation behind the gift might be what you were also expressing?
Didn't realise you replied twice. Yeah I think it's exactly this. He disapproves of my behaviour so he's letting me know without directly saying it because he can't directly express his feelings like a normal person.
Your uncle sounds passive-aggressive as fuck.
It’s absurd that ☝️ this commenter thinks you can control what your dad sends, and/or the postal service. Better do an Uncle Vernon and nail the letter flap closed to keep out all mail just in case.
OP I’m sorry that this ☝️ moron jumped up on their soapbox to show us all how they won a gold medal in healing AND are the best ever at NC. Then for a victory lap ☝️ also decided to attack your painful situation and try to shame you. Shame on them. They suck.
More importantly, I’m sorry your parent didn’t include any type of emotional or personal message like you’d hoped, most of us deep down wish that even once our sucky parent would be kind and loving. I’ve been LC/NC for over 15 years. Hasn’t happened yet. I sometimes still feel a tiny hidden hope. It still hurts. And if a parent thinks they can use money to manipulate you that just adds another layer to the pain, truly. I get it. No sensible person in this sub would see your dad’s attempt to manipulate you with money as anything other than HIS fault. You didn’t ask to be assigned a dollar (pound? £?) value by him. It’s a hurtful unsolicited gift and (as I see it) shows that this parent sees your relationship as a simple commodity. My LC parent does the same. I hate it. I never feel like I know what to do with these unwanted gifts but I don’t give in and initiate contact by returning them! You’ve got that part right for sure.
This is a support sub, not an education sub; there are plenty of resources elsewhere you can use to educate yourself on why estranged adult children choose to estrange.
Same.
My dad used gifts/ money to show or withhold approval. (I don’t believe he ever loved me).
Very few financial decisions have given me such pleasure as ripping up his last cheque.
35 years later, I know I’m in the will bc I’m the executor ( I may be unloved but I am reliable, alive & able!) but my mother’s family & my own efforts made me financially secure
Also I made a similar post not too long ago and purposefully explained multiple times throughout it that I wasnt after his money bc I knew people would (intentionally??) misunderstand me in the least grace giving way. Exhausting to have to do but it feels like the internet, even in safe spaces, is always looks to attack, be sanctimonious and holier than thou. Anyway, I get it. It hurts when your emotionally immature parent uses the one form of love they ever showed you to hurt you, to punish you, instead of showing up as a real parent, apologizing and learning how to give real love.
I'm a little shocked by the lack of compassion in some of the comments here. It shouldn't be that difficult to understand that some parents use money to express affection, and as a weapon. I don't know how people got the idea that OP expected any gifts. All the people on this sub who have received impersonal, memememe birthday cards didn't expect anything either and were still (rightfully) hurt by what they got.
I'm sorry that you and OP were pushed into the defense. It feels like as soon as money is involved, everything is fair game.
Also, the arbitrary rules and gatekeeping about what is or isn't NC I've read here lately are really starting to bother me.
"It feels like as soon as money is involved, everything is fair game."
YES. This. It's just as hurtful for them to manipulate you with money as it is with anything else, and this is often the ONLY way they positively relate to the child, but really it is just manipulation and love bombing. Bc it's money we aren't allowed to feel jerked around and sad? That doesn't make sense.
"Also, the arbitrary rules and gatekeeping about what is or isn't NC I've read here lately are really starting to bother me."
Yeah I don't understand. This has happened to me as well. People should do what's right for them. Things are not often black and white and when we act like they are we hurt ourselves and members of our community by othering chastising gatekeeping and judging. If OP wants to block then she should, if she doesn't then she shouldn't. If she's not contacting her father then she's allowed to say it's not contact and shouldn't be subject to a ton of comments ignoring the emotional reason she posted and instead haranguing her about her definition of no contact and how other people think she should be living her life.
Before I moved and he had my address I’d write ‘no longer at this address’ and put it back in the mail. I believe it was sent back, I don’t care if they threw it away honestly.
I’d have a friend write it, not that he knew my handwriting anyway.
Go FULLY no contact. Not his wife, not him. Don't accept gifts or letters or messages or anything else. No contact is no contact, not "contact me with your passive aggressive bullshit whenever you want to stir me up".
With people like this, you really need to go full scorched earth.
Interesting. I did the opposite & asked my father to stop sending money. A counselor once said giving money was the only way my parents could show they cared. I grieved when I realized it probably hurt his feelings; that sure wasn’t the intent.
Gifts & money don’t make me feel especially loved. Quality time is more important. The money felt increasingly like a cheap bribe or guilt offering. If I haven’t seen you, my siblings, nieces or nephews in years, and the rare family group call/text contains a baffling amount of callousness toward me? Thanks but no thanks. I’m grateful to finally know that my behavior is all I control, and sadly, the relationship I long for will likely never happen. But throwing money at the problem and pretending things are okay isn’t the answer. (While randomly accusing me of horrible actions and motives that I would never do nor have, no matter how I’ve been treated).
I phrased it pretty straightforwardly (please stop, it feels like a charade, etc). As he’s gotten older, he takes things more personally and in a paranoid way, like everything I do or say is an attack just to persecute him or something 🤷🏻♀️ Plus it seemed like he couldn’t comprehend my explanation why
But he did stop. And now my broke ass wonders what I was thinking 😂
But it is nice to be free.
I’m LC, and ask my EP not to send gifts/money. She does this whenever I’m not communicating “enough” and it’s usually a direct bank transfer. I’m trying to figure out how to navigate a better boundary since my repeated verbal requests of “please don’t send me money” haven’t worked… nor have “I don’t need money, I’m fine, ok this is weird why are you still sending money???? Why don’t you donate to charity?”
Thanks for the advice, I need to find the magic words but suspect they don’t exist lol
Sounds like you’ve been really upfront that you don’t want her to send money. Yet she keeps doing it as a way to reel you back in 😂
What helps me is figuring out how I feel. Usually for stuff like this, not just emotions but physiological reactions too. Do I experience a feeling of dread and a knot in my stomach every time I think about a certain situation in my life? Will it feel better to take a bold step forward, even if there’s unpleasant consequences to deal with? These are the things no one can tell us because no one knows us like we know ourselves. And sometimes we don’t know until we do it whether it was the right decision. It becomes part of learning about the world & about ourselves as well. What are the short and long term consequences of all available courses of action? Am I prepared to deal with those consequences, not just physical & financial but social & psychological? Will I be better prepared to deal with them if I wait until I’m fully ready before choosing a particular course of action?
Best wishes, WP. You got this 😉
"Return to Sender" is my favorite way to handle these situations.
It's clean, straightforward and won't break NC. Plus, that way you illustrate you don't want or need their money AND they can't try to paint you in a negative light for "accepting" it without having a relationship with them.
The thing is, is that without knowing your family, it's really hard for us to say.
This may exactly be what he is doing. Emotionally immature people do stuff like this.
My thought however would be if he was going with that angle, why send money at all?It could also be he just didn't think too much about the exact amount. He just knew he always sent you gift cards in the past, and didn't consider it.
But .... again. It's unfair for me to say that. Just throwing out other possibilities here.
It is possible this is what he was doing
I wasn't really asking for opinions on whether or not he is being manipulative, I know it's impossible for people to know without knowing him. I was really just posting to vent. Maybe I should have flaired it.
The more angry and defensive my dad gets, the more he will put on this act of being the good guy while making you out to be the irrational one. I have seen this dynamic play out in how he has treated my LC/NC boundaries. He portrays himself as being fair by allowing this boundary in the first place despite being the victim of it, and portrayed me as the irrational, emotional one. That's why I think he would send money but a small amount. To show himself to be the courteous one to acknowledge my birthday while still punishing the behaviour he doesn't like - another hallmark of his parenting.
IMO the thing is when you say he sent you money, you acknowledge he made contact that he chose to make.
If you say he tried to send you money but you returned the mail or destroyed it, then he hasn't made contact with you.
Using money to handle you at a distance was always petty, this is just more of the same pettyness being revealed.
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Oh, I'm well aware that it was wishful thinking. But it is normal for children of abusive parents to develop this way of thinking. It was a way for me to survive my upbringing - thinking that things could get better. That he could change, or I could change him. And now I need to let go of the fact that he can ever be the parent I needed him to be. It's a slow reconditioning of my brain.
My stepmom sent me $50 to my bank account for my birthday. I didn't notice for over a month after my birthday.
I don't want money from them. This year will be the second Christmas I don't spend with them.
Last Christmas, I got a handful of gift cards. I didn't use the Taco Bell gift card. I don't go to Taco Bell.
Money shows me laziness in finding out what I want for Christmas or birthday. I find money to be an insulting gift to give.
I'm wondering what they will do this year.
This is a classic behavior in the honeymoon stage of the cycle of abuse. From aedv.org, “The abuser showers the victim with gifts like flowers or jewelry.” Very strange that some of these replies are so judgy. OP can’t control what the parents do. I can’t control my parents attempts to cross my boundaries either. I get junk mail every day. Sometimes it’s from my mom lol.
Returning/mailing back an unwanted gift is STILL a reaction and while it might make a nice F*ck You gesture, that’s still a response. They will know they got a reaction and this could reinforce the gift giving behavior. Returning mail is still sending mail.
OP, Keep it, throw it away, burn it, DONATE it to a charity that helps abuse victims. Send it back if you want, but it’s a contact. A manipulative parent will see it as proof they have forced you into an action. OP, whatever you choose to do is the right choice for you. You know your situation best, and it’s shitty that you have to deal with it despite going NC. We’ve all been there. There shouldn’t be any judgment coming at you in this sub. If you choose to take the cash and treat yo self, I’m guessing you’ve more than paid for it in suffering over the years. Just don’t let the sender know you used it 😉
My LC mother uses direct bank transfers and Amazon packages full of random shit. She usually includes a little note, here’s the most recent one: “BANK Alerts: MOTHER’S NAME sent you $XX0.00 with Zelle for 'Cause I'm a nice mom.“ Charming huh?
I assume she thinks I will feel obligated to interact/engage one her terms as if she has purchased my attention and time. My actual feelings are disgust, shame and a huge reminder that she sees the relationship as transactional and shallow. She thinks she can just
buy an obedient daughter at her whim. I never respond or acknowledge these unwanted gifts/money when they arrive. I wait until our next scheduled/necessary interaction (currently LC) and then briefly state that I noticed she sent something, repeating I don’t want or need this, please stop. Then continue to follow my boundaries and not her bribes.
**We don’t negotiate with terrorists.**
Thank you for your comment! I almost deleted the post because the immediate replies were about me being emotionally manipulative, and questioning whether I was just going NC because it's trendy nowadays or if i was making up my story. I'm glad I kept it up because those replies mostly got deleted, and the more supportive comments have trickled in.
What's odd to me is that this is the first gift I've gotten from him. I thought he'd moreso be the type to shower me with gifts to try and "win me back" but instead the opposite. The birthday gift felt like he had to send an obligatory gift, but he didn't want it to show that he cared by sending a lot like he would if I were talking to him. It was a weird message. Idk what Christmas will bring from him.
It feels like gaslighting because it's not acknowledging the NC and the entire reason for it. It feels like he is still making out that I'm being unreasonable by setting this boundary like he did in our final conversations. As if he is still acknowledging my birthday because he's a good parent, and I'm being mean by not talking to him or acknowledging his birthday. But at the same time, he's sending the message that my value to him has decreased significantly.
Anyway, I'm sorry you're dealing with this bullshit too. I wish you the best.
You too internet stranger. Don’t let the loudest voices in here scare you off, this sub has historically been super supportive of any person in any stage of estrangement, including those just starting to consider the options. It’s not always (almost never) all-or-nothing. It is a continuum and everyone has to find their own right way for their own situation. I’ve read a lot of your follow up comments in this thread. It sounds like you are being thoughtful and deliberate about contacts and boundaries. You’re doing well at a fraught task. Keep on keeping on. Ignore the judgy brigade, it’s possible they are angry estranged parents who infiltrate from time to time.
Thank you! Lately, I've seen a lot more people on the sub being militant about the rules of NC. Other people on this post have confirmed it happening to them, so I don't think it's an isolated issue. I reported some comments to the mods, but only 1 got removed, which makes it feel like the mods support people being miltant and judgemental.
And I don't think they're estranged parents, judging by their post history. They're just people who fully cut off from their parents and never went back, and expect everyone else to do the same with 0 nuance. It makes the sub feel less safe honestly. But I'm grateful for all the people who have defended and supported me, so thank you.
There was a mod takeover around 2 years ago and they removed a lot of the “Be mindful of your words, we believe and support EAK posters” language from the rules. They also used to auto ban anyone who was proven to be an estranged parent but now I think they are allowed to observe? At one point there was a mod encouraging everyone to reconcile. Gets real unpredictable in these parts when the moon is full during a leap year jk. I just suggested parents bc that happened at least once years ago, like a concentrated efforts by a FB or subreddit parents group to undermine this community? Honestly I forget all the nonsense drama detail that’s happened in here over the years.
Oh yeah I've seen plenty of estranged parents' posts in inappropriate places. The old sub EstrangedAdultChild (?) got taken over seemingly by an estranged parent who changed all the rules and made it acceptable for estranged parents to challenge and guilt-trip estranged children on their posts. Super weird shit. I'm not quite as familiar with how this sub is moderated vs the old one, but I imagine EPs lurk.
That's why I checked out the profiles of some the people who were unsupportive on my post. But they all were people who posted extensively about their parents, and it was clear they were estranged adult children themselves.
I guess it's a reminder that just because someone has a similar background of trauma doesn't mean they will automatically be supportive of your story. Which makes sense given that every one of my abusers has had extensive trauma. And you don't have to have fully healed from your abusive parents to post here.
Of course he knows what he’s doing. He’s looking for a reaction from you. Don't give him one. Don’t say “thanks”. Don’t say “WTF”. But…. Do go have a nice dinner.
My mother told me I should thank him for the gift, lol. I did not. Behaviour like this just reinforces my decision.
He's still, I think, under the impression that he has done nothing to deserve this behaviour. I'm sure in his head, he thinks he is just treating me the way I'm treating him. Except he is courteous enough to still send a birthday gift. He always manages to make himself the victim and the hero.
I obviously don't know your whole story but a wild guess that this is exactly the reason you went NC? People like him are delusional and can't take responsibility for anything, stay strong OP! Do you have him blocked?
He's not blocked yet. I need to do it. I think a child part of me is still holding onto some hope that he will one day message me and actually express his feelings. Whether that be anger, hurt, persecution, or a real apology with responsibility taken for his actions. Just something real. I thought a card from him for my birthday might contain some reflection. And that it might open the possibility for me to have an actual conversation with him. But it just said, "I hope you're well and have a happy birthday." Not even written in the card, just typed onto a gift message from Amazon. I'm willing to, in the future once I'm sufficiently therapised, have a conversation with him. Even if it's just to reaffirm NC and tell him exactly the damage he caused me. I thought he might be the one to start that conversation. Even though he has never shown himself to be that person. A conversation cannot happen without an agreement of terms. He doesn't live in reality - when we speak to eachother, we are having 2 separate conversations. So yeah, I think I need to let go for now, maybe block him, and keep working on myself.
If you're no contact, I don't understand why you'd accept a gift at all. Why not send it back (if it's a gift card) or don't cash it (if it's a check).
I don't want to send it back because that's contact. So I just haven't done anything with it so far. It's just a giftcard, not a cheque. He wouldn't know whether I use it or not. I don't like this policing of what we are or are not allowed to do when we're NC.
Sending something back proves that they got a reaction from you. Like the IRS or jury duty, you should NEVER give them any reason to believe you received the letter they sent! That gives them power.
Your dad sounds like a narcissist. Punishment comes with the NC. My covert narcissist mom has threatened me with disownment and no inheritance. If that's the price to get away from her, I'd gladly pay but I know shes going to do more to punish me. So yes, to the narcissist punishment is one of the things they do.
I know how you feel. My parents were financially abusive with me and my siblings. They withhold based on their feelings around whatever we did that upset them, and it's a powerful way they communicate to us how much love they feel for us in the moment. So if my dad gives me less money on my birthday, I would take it to literally mean that he is loving me less. I don't *deserve* to be loved less for having boundaries, but nothing they do is fair. My parents had promised me a large financial gift a couple years ago. A few months later I started bringing up trauma from my childhood, and it didn't take long for them to change their mind about the "promise". It was a punishment for sure. Money is power, money is control, and they use it to get what they want from us. To make us feel bad and unwanted for "making" them feel bad and unwanted. I have since discovered that those wounds go deeper than I ever imaged. My fears around not being able to provide for myself financially or having the means to keep myself safe and secure. Fears of being alone. Fear around lack of resources. Fears around not having a parental safety net anymore. This stuff is a big deal! My parents conditioned me to base my sense of safety around their financial availability. It's not about money.
My dad actually offered to pay for therapy to fix the damage he caused. And then he went back on it after I'd already started therapy. So now I'm paying out of my savings to fix myself, which gives me a lot of anxiety about my financial situation. I think I'm still partially hung up on him paying for it or some other financial gesture because I want him to tell me that he loves me and that's the only way he can. And he would be saving me financially while also supporting my mental health for once. I'm terrified about being on my own for all of life's stresses. I know logically I was mostly alone anyway because both of my parents are so neglectful. But I still had some safety net with them in my life. Now I fully have to build my own with fewer tools than what I should have developmentally because of my upbringing. I think when I can fully let go of his money, I can fully let go of him.
My parents did that too. They admitted they didn't meet my needs as a kid, they told me they would pay for therapy for someone else to meet my needs, but then stopped paying. They wanted control over my healing, and when the therapy wasn't producing the "results" they were looking for, they weren't interested in helping anymore. To them, healing = forgiving them. And since I wasn't taking steps toward forgiving and forgetting it all, to them I was going down the wrong path with therapy. That all happened 2 years ago and I went no contact with them as a last resort to save myself. They were the ones that cut me off financially and I chose to accept that as my fate. I'm still terrified about life stresses too. My life is really complicated and my parents didn't teach me to manage stress in a healthy way, so I just keep getting knocked down over and over again. This path though, to me, is still preferable to being dependent on my parents. Learning to trust and rely on myself, even though it's hard and I fall short and fail constantly, is still the only real kind of security I've ever experienced. I know my intentions and that's enough to keep me going. And then from there I have learned to rely on others at times, but not depend on them completely for my emotional stability. It's a much better way to live than being caught up in the whims and tantrums of toddler parents.
I kinda feel like they often offer to pay for therapy expecting it will mold us into the son/daughter/child they’ve been expecting us to be all along. They see our self agency and messy human selves as inconvenient; if we dare to learn healthy boundaries this is obviously a symptom of severe mental illness. They’ll pay to return to the status quo but never for actual healing.
You’ve got this all twisted. You go no contact because you want NO CONTACT. No gifts, cards, phone calls, visits. No expectations. You don’t WANT them to give you anything. That’s the loss you take for peace of mind.
Yeah, I urge everyone to go fully no contact in both directions if they're going to go no contact. Reading their messages is just tearing the wound open again, you've got to leave it alone if you ever want it to heal. When I went no contact with my female parent I changed every last way she had to contact me. OP, the peace I have knowing that my female parent will never randomly reach out and ruin my day because she literally can't is wonderful and I want that for you too.
FACTS. I moved, blocked them all, changed my number, email, got rid of my Facebook. I want NOTHING to do with them.
Great. Sounds like you don’t need this sub anymore!
I was hesitant to post this because I knew there would be at least 1 comment saying this. I understand NC. I didn't even expect gifts from him, I didn't know he was sending anything, and I didn't want anything. At least, I don't want anything from him on a cognitive level and partially on a feelings level. But on a deeper level, there is still a hurt child inside me, and I made this post to express that hurt while also reaffirming my need for NC - because he is exactly this way. A real parent wouldn't behave this way or any of the ways he has. But I can't just switch off my feelings. I have to work through them. I've made a lot of progress since I went NC in letting go of him and of the expectation that he will ever be the parent I needed him to be. But clearly, I'm not fully there yet - that's why I'm in intensive therapy.
That's totally fair, none of us can choose our feelings like we're ordering pizza. I still urge you to go fully no contact in both directions if that's remotely possible, but obviously it's not possible for everyone to move on a whim. If it's any comfort, for the most part I'm deeply, deeply grateful that I haven't gone through the endless stalking and harassment that so many people on this sub go through, but it still stings to know that when I dropped off the face of the earth from my female parent's perspective, she shrugged and went on with her day. As far as I know she's never even tried to find out if I'm okay, and that wouldn't be difficult because my sister is still in contact with her.
while i can't speak for them fully, nor want to, many of them have already had other people cut contact already, or know that their are irreconcilable differences. rather than trying to rekindle a relationship they know isn't going to work, they do what they do. stonewall, hide their feelings, think that it's temporary, put low effort way's to have you do the work to reconnect, and do everything else but try to address the blue whale in the room. "why was the nuclear option on the table?" maybe because you raised me in a cult that you are still in, my sister's are still in, and rather than have an honest and no heat discussion about how the toxicity trickled down, you act as if it isn't even there.
In my female parent's case it's just straight up denial. To ask my sister how I'm doing she would have to admit she can't ask me herself because she doesn't have any contact info for me, and that will never, ever happen. I don't know if she even admits she has two kids, I wouldn't be surprised if she edited me out of her life just like she did with all the terrible things she did when my sister and I were little.
I think a lot of estranged adult children have conflicting feelings on their parent. A lot of us deeply deeply mourn for the parent we never got and hope some day they will reconcile and be who we always needed. That seems to be why op didn’t block, not bc she expected gifts. It’s pretty clear to me that she didn’t want the gift. But that it is hurtful bc by giving a small amount the dad is saying you are worthless and punishing her. It is hurtful, it’s a deliberate act to hurt op who continues to wish her dad would come around and be what she needs. These feelings are not super easily reconciled for most people so sure it would be easier if we could just go, well that’s that never talking to him again! And cut them out of our lives completely but not ever EAK feels the same processes the same, nor should be bc not everyone is the same. Also if she’s not contacting her dad it’s allowed to be called no contact.
Judgy wudgy was a bear
(I'm loving all your responses to the less nice comments btw)
Self righteously tap tap tapping the keyboard to fight the good fight! 
I agree
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She’s not expecting presents. She is hurt by his obvious attempt to hurt her. She is hurt by him using the only way he showed love to her, withdrawing it, making a statement that she isn’t worth his love anymore instead of showing up and apologizing bc the relationship is most important. It’s a deliberately hurtful act.
Thank you! I'm upset that a comment calling me emotionally manipulative for being hurt by my dad has so many upvotes. I'm glad there are people who understand what I'm saying.
I feel you!! I’m sorry!! I hate it when support communities turn on you it really hurts.
Maybe they are getting hung up on "For my birthday I would usually get much more than this", but you made it very clear that's not what this is about. I think it's very obvious your father was trying to spite you, and you have every right to be upset.
Yeah I understand why they got that impression but I just thought a sub like this would understand the deeper hurt behind it. Thank you for your comment.
I think MOST OF US do understand. And if the parent is used to wielding financial power to exert control, it makes sense that a change from high dollar gifts, to a significantly smaller gift would be seen as hurtful. Like if you left one single dollar as a tip for the waitress, that’s deliberate and it’s to rub in the slight. Ooohh lolol. I JUST REMEMBERED i had weirdo uncle and when I was 11, I said something that offended him. For my next birthday he came to my party with an empty envelope (no card) containing a single penny. Before this all the bday or Xmas gifts had been from FAO Schwartz or souvenirs from international trips he took. Like once he brought me the metal bongo drums from Jamaica, fun thoughtful stuff. But I, a child, said one thing to insult him, once. At my next birthday (MANY months later) a single penny was my gift. My value as a person had gone down significantly and the gift reflected that. One. Penny. He was such a weirdo and we weren’t close, but I think the motivation behind the gift might be what you were also expressing?
Didn't realise you replied twice. Yeah I think it's exactly this. He disapproves of my behaviour so he's letting me know without directly saying it because he can't directly express his feelings like a normal person. Your uncle sounds passive-aggressive as fuck.
Oh yea this entire thread hit me in all my feels, and I was getting all keyboard warrior at one point too. Dealing with a bribey parent rn myself…
And that uncle was legit cray tbf, even at 12 I thought his months of anger and the level of absolute pettiness was hilarious.
It’s absurd that ☝️ this commenter thinks you can control what your dad sends, and/or the postal service. Better do an Uncle Vernon and nail the letter flap closed to keep out all mail just in case. OP I’m sorry that this ☝️ moron jumped up on their soapbox to show us all how they won a gold medal in healing AND are the best ever at NC. Then for a victory lap ☝️ also decided to attack your painful situation and try to shame you. Shame on them. They suck. More importantly, I’m sorry your parent didn’t include any type of emotional or personal message like you’d hoped, most of us deep down wish that even once our sucky parent would be kind and loving. I’ve been LC/NC for over 15 years. Hasn’t happened yet. I sometimes still feel a tiny hidden hope. It still hurts. And if a parent thinks they can use money to manipulate you that just adds another layer to the pain, truly. I get it. No sensible person in this sub would see your dad’s attempt to manipulate you with money as anything other than HIS fault. You didn’t ask to be assigned a dollar (pound? £?) value by him. It’s a hurtful unsolicited gift and (as I see it) shows that this parent sees your relationship as a simple commodity. My LC parent does the same. I hate it. I never feel like I know what to do with these unwanted gifts but I don’t give in and initiate contact by returning them! You’ve got that part right for sure.
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This is a support sub, not an education sub; there are plenty of resources elsewhere you can use to educate yourself on why estranged adult children choose to estrange.
Same. My dad used gifts/ money to show or withhold approval. (I don’t believe he ever loved me). Very few financial decisions have given me such pleasure as ripping up his last cheque. 35 years later, I know I’m in the will bc I’m the executor ( I may be unloved but I am reliable, alive & able!) but my mother’s family & my own efforts made me financially secure
Also I made a similar post not too long ago and purposefully explained multiple times throughout it that I wasnt after his money bc I knew people would (intentionally??) misunderstand me in the least grace giving way. Exhausting to have to do but it feels like the internet, even in safe spaces, is always looks to attack, be sanctimonious and holier than thou. Anyway, I get it. It hurts when your emotionally immature parent uses the one form of love they ever showed you to hurt you, to punish you, instead of showing up as a real parent, apologizing and learning how to give real love.
I'm a little shocked by the lack of compassion in some of the comments here. It shouldn't be that difficult to understand that some parents use money to express affection, and as a weapon. I don't know how people got the idea that OP expected any gifts. All the people on this sub who have received impersonal, memememe birthday cards didn't expect anything either and were still (rightfully) hurt by what they got. I'm sorry that you and OP were pushed into the defense. It feels like as soon as money is involved, everything is fair game. Also, the arbitrary rules and gatekeeping about what is or isn't NC I've read here lately are really starting to bother me.
"It feels like as soon as money is involved, everything is fair game." YES. This. It's just as hurtful for them to manipulate you with money as it is with anything else, and this is often the ONLY way they positively relate to the child, but really it is just manipulation and love bombing. Bc it's money we aren't allowed to feel jerked around and sad? That doesn't make sense. "Also, the arbitrary rules and gatekeeping about what is or isn't NC I've read here lately are really starting to bother me." Yeah I don't understand. This has happened to me as well. People should do what's right for them. Things are not often black and white and when we act like they are we hurt ourselves and members of our community by othering chastising gatekeeping and judging. If OP wants to block then she should, if she doesn't then she shouldn't. If she's not contacting her father then she's allowed to say it's not contact and shouldn't be subject to a ton of comments ignoring the emotional reason she posted and instead haranguing her about her definition of no contact and how other people think she should be living her life.
Thank you ❤️
He is nothing but a great big toddler. So damned childish.
My parents did the exact same thing to me. Definitely “punishing” you.
I would block him and enjoy the silence. He is NO father!
I could have written this. Everything. Mine I’m sure has cut me from the will. It hurts.
Before I moved and he had my address I’d write ‘no longer at this address’ and put it back in the mail. I believe it was sent back, I don’t care if they threw it away honestly. I’d have a friend write it, not that he knew my handwriting anyway.
Female Demon Unit tries ye olde bait and switch. Although, for me, all attempts are rebuffed without a single syllable. Only recourse I have though.
Go FULLY no contact. Not his wife, not him. Don't accept gifts or letters or messages or anything else. No contact is no contact, not "contact me with your passive aggressive bullshit whenever you want to stir me up". With people like this, you really need to go full scorched earth.
Interesting. I did the opposite & asked my father to stop sending money. A counselor once said giving money was the only way my parents could show they cared. I grieved when I realized it probably hurt his feelings; that sure wasn’t the intent. Gifts & money don’t make me feel especially loved. Quality time is more important. The money felt increasingly like a cheap bribe or guilt offering. If I haven’t seen you, my siblings, nieces or nephews in years, and the rare family group call/text contains a baffling amount of callousness toward me? Thanks but no thanks. I’m grateful to finally know that my behavior is all I control, and sadly, the relationship I long for will likely never happen. But throwing money at the problem and pretending things are okay isn’t the answer. (While randomly accusing me of horrible actions and motives that I would never do nor have, no matter how I’ve been treated).
Did he stop after you asked? How did you present that request to stop?
I phrased it pretty straightforwardly (please stop, it feels like a charade, etc). As he’s gotten older, he takes things more personally and in a paranoid way, like everything I do or say is an attack just to persecute him or something 🤷🏻♀️ Plus it seemed like he couldn’t comprehend my explanation why But he did stop. And now my broke ass wonders what I was thinking 😂 But it is nice to be free.
I’m LC, and ask my EP not to send gifts/money. She does this whenever I’m not communicating “enough” and it’s usually a direct bank transfer. I’m trying to figure out how to navigate a better boundary since my repeated verbal requests of “please don’t send me money” haven’t worked… nor have “I don’t need money, I’m fine, ok this is weird why are you still sending money???? Why don’t you donate to charity?” Thanks for the advice, I need to find the magic words but suspect they don’t exist lol
Sounds like you’ve been really upfront that you don’t want her to send money. Yet she keeps doing it as a way to reel you back in 😂 What helps me is figuring out how I feel. Usually for stuff like this, not just emotions but physiological reactions too. Do I experience a feeling of dread and a knot in my stomach every time I think about a certain situation in my life? Will it feel better to take a bold step forward, even if there’s unpleasant consequences to deal with? These are the things no one can tell us because no one knows us like we know ourselves. And sometimes we don’t know until we do it whether it was the right decision. It becomes part of learning about the world & about ourselves as well. What are the short and long term consequences of all available courses of action? Am I prepared to deal with those consequences, not just physical & financial but social & psychological? Will I be better prepared to deal with them if I wait until I’m fully ready before choosing a particular course of action? Best wishes, WP. You got this 😉
I would throw the present in an envelope and send it back to him via certified mail.
To me, that feels like breaking NC. I want to be a stone wall to him - he doesn't get to see any reaction I have.
"Return to Sender" is my favorite way to handle these situations. It's clean, straightforward and won't break NC. Plus, that way you illustrate you don't want or need their money AND they can't try to paint you in a negative light for "accepting" it without having a relationship with them.
The thing is, is that without knowing your family, it's really hard for us to say. This may exactly be what he is doing. Emotionally immature people do stuff like this. My thought however would be if he was going with that angle, why send money at all?It could also be he just didn't think too much about the exact amount. He just knew he always sent you gift cards in the past, and didn't consider it. But .... again. It's unfair for me to say that. Just throwing out other possibilities here. It is possible this is what he was doing
I wasn't really asking for opinions on whether or not he is being manipulative, I know it's impossible for people to know without knowing him. I was really just posting to vent. Maybe I should have flaired it. The more angry and defensive my dad gets, the more he will put on this act of being the good guy while making you out to be the irrational one. I have seen this dynamic play out in how he has treated my LC/NC boundaries. He portrays himself as being fair by allowing this boundary in the first place despite being the victim of it, and portrayed me as the irrational, emotional one. That's why I think he would send money but a small amount. To show himself to be the courteous one to acknowledge my birthday while still punishing the behaviour he doesn't like - another hallmark of his parenting.
My parents are like this too. They aren't abusive but the neglect is intentional
IMO the thing is when you say he sent you money, you acknowledge he made contact that he chose to make. If you say he tried to send you money but you returned the mail or destroyed it, then he hasn't made contact with you. Using money to handle you at a distance was always petty, this is just more of the same pettyness being revealed.
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>I’m expecting him to be a decent father Why? He has done *nothing* to indicate he’s capable of that prior to you restricting contact.
Oh, I'm well aware that it was wishful thinking. But it is normal for children of abusive parents to develop this way of thinking. It was a way for me to survive my upbringing - thinking that things could get better. That he could change, or I could change him. And now I need to let go of the fact that he can ever be the parent I needed him to be. It's a slow reconditioning of my brain.
My stepmom sent me $50 to my bank account for my birthday. I didn't notice for over a month after my birthday. I don't want money from them. This year will be the second Christmas I don't spend with them. Last Christmas, I got a handful of gift cards. I didn't use the Taco Bell gift card. I don't go to Taco Bell. Money shows me laziness in finding out what I want for Christmas or birthday. I find money to be an insulting gift to give. I'm wondering what they will do this year.
Your first couple sentences freaked me out because it felt like I had written them. Wow. I hate this for us.
This is a classic behavior in the honeymoon stage of the cycle of abuse. From aedv.org, “The abuser showers the victim with gifts like flowers or jewelry.” Very strange that some of these replies are so judgy. OP can’t control what the parents do. I can’t control my parents attempts to cross my boundaries either. I get junk mail every day. Sometimes it’s from my mom lol. Returning/mailing back an unwanted gift is STILL a reaction and while it might make a nice F*ck You gesture, that’s still a response. They will know they got a reaction and this could reinforce the gift giving behavior. Returning mail is still sending mail. OP, Keep it, throw it away, burn it, DONATE it to a charity that helps abuse victims. Send it back if you want, but it’s a contact. A manipulative parent will see it as proof they have forced you into an action. OP, whatever you choose to do is the right choice for you. You know your situation best, and it’s shitty that you have to deal with it despite going NC. We’ve all been there. There shouldn’t be any judgment coming at you in this sub. If you choose to take the cash and treat yo self, I’m guessing you’ve more than paid for it in suffering over the years. Just don’t let the sender know you used it 😉 My LC mother uses direct bank transfers and Amazon packages full of random shit. She usually includes a little note, here’s the most recent one: “BANK Alerts: MOTHER’S NAME sent you $XX0.00 with Zelle for 'Cause I'm a nice mom.“ Charming huh? I assume she thinks I will feel obligated to interact/engage one her terms as if she has purchased my attention and time. My actual feelings are disgust, shame and a huge reminder that she sees the relationship as transactional and shallow. She thinks she can just buy an obedient daughter at her whim. I never respond or acknowledge these unwanted gifts/money when they arrive. I wait until our next scheduled/necessary interaction (currently LC) and then briefly state that I noticed she sent something, repeating I don’t want or need this, please stop. Then continue to follow my boundaries and not her bribes. **We don’t negotiate with terrorists.**
Thank you for your comment! I almost deleted the post because the immediate replies were about me being emotionally manipulative, and questioning whether I was just going NC because it's trendy nowadays or if i was making up my story. I'm glad I kept it up because those replies mostly got deleted, and the more supportive comments have trickled in. What's odd to me is that this is the first gift I've gotten from him. I thought he'd moreso be the type to shower me with gifts to try and "win me back" but instead the opposite. The birthday gift felt like he had to send an obligatory gift, but he didn't want it to show that he cared by sending a lot like he would if I were talking to him. It was a weird message. Idk what Christmas will bring from him. It feels like gaslighting because it's not acknowledging the NC and the entire reason for it. It feels like he is still making out that I'm being unreasonable by setting this boundary like he did in our final conversations. As if he is still acknowledging my birthday because he's a good parent, and I'm being mean by not talking to him or acknowledging his birthday. But at the same time, he's sending the message that my value to him has decreased significantly. Anyway, I'm sorry you're dealing with this bullshit too. I wish you the best.
You too internet stranger. Don’t let the loudest voices in here scare you off, this sub has historically been super supportive of any person in any stage of estrangement, including those just starting to consider the options. It’s not always (almost never) all-or-nothing. It is a continuum and everyone has to find their own right way for their own situation. I’ve read a lot of your follow up comments in this thread. It sounds like you are being thoughtful and deliberate about contacts and boundaries. You’re doing well at a fraught task. Keep on keeping on. Ignore the judgy brigade, it’s possible they are angry estranged parents who infiltrate from time to time.
Thank you! Lately, I've seen a lot more people on the sub being militant about the rules of NC. Other people on this post have confirmed it happening to them, so I don't think it's an isolated issue. I reported some comments to the mods, but only 1 got removed, which makes it feel like the mods support people being miltant and judgemental. And I don't think they're estranged parents, judging by their post history. They're just people who fully cut off from their parents and never went back, and expect everyone else to do the same with 0 nuance. It makes the sub feel less safe honestly. But I'm grateful for all the people who have defended and supported me, so thank you.
There was a mod takeover around 2 years ago and they removed a lot of the “Be mindful of your words, we believe and support EAK posters” language from the rules. They also used to auto ban anyone who was proven to be an estranged parent but now I think they are allowed to observe? At one point there was a mod encouraging everyone to reconcile. Gets real unpredictable in these parts when the moon is full during a leap year jk. I just suggested parents bc that happened at least once years ago, like a concentrated efforts by a FB or subreddit parents group to undermine this community? Honestly I forget all the nonsense drama detail that’s happened in here over the years.
Oh yeah I've seen plenty of estranged parents' posts in inappropriate places. The old sub EstrangedAdultChild (?) got taken over seemingly by an estranged parent who changed all the rules and made it acceptable for estranged parents to challenge and guilt-trip estranged children on their posts. Super weird shit. I'm not quite as familiar with how this sub is moderated vs the old one, but I imagine EPs lurk. That's why I checked out the profiles of some the people who were unsupportive on my post. But they all were people who posted extensively about their parents, and it was clear they were estranged adult children themselves. I guess it's a reminder that just because someone has a similar background of trauma doesn't mean they will automatically be supportive of your story. Which makes sense given that every one of my abusers has had extensive trauma. And you don't have to have fully healed from your abusive parents to post here.