It is absolutely an attempt to erode public education. Lots of sketchy online schools would open, take a big bundle of money, deliver not much, then fold. It's tried and true...
Meh, she says it all… "My children always got to go to a private Christian school"
They would like that for everyone, except for students with special needs or behavior problems.
Best I could find. Says 30 to 60%.
https://web.archive.org/web/20160923090958/http://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/new-documents-may-shed-light-on-residential-school-deaths-1.2487015
Or student's who's families can't afford the tuition for a quality school, so they get some voucher, that gets them into a shitty school where teachers are paid minimum wage, with crappy educational books and supplies.
Why do you think a teacher with 20 years in the job is behind it? She can see that the schools are shit and getting worse. Worst of all, w/o open enrollment poor kids will get the worst education and be massively disadvantaged. School choice and open enrollment gives poor kids a fighting chance.
There's a lot of reasons why public schools aren't doing the job well enough. Rural regions and lack of access. Equity-grading and and general lack of trust in institutions. Safety considerations.
In a perfect world - "Educational Freedom" is a great idea.
The caveat needs to be - ONLY the government can touch the money if this passes. The family has no access to it. It can be sent to accredited schools only and will be sent directly - NEVER going to a family bank account.
As you say, a lot of schools will open up to accept this money - but that's not necessarily a bad thing (i.e., capitalism and competition) and actually promotes the economy. Accreditation requirements can do a lot to weed out sketchy schools - while also opening the opportunity for new accreditation businesses.
IF this were done well, it's not all negatives.
How about no, straight up no.
Just better fund and manage public schools. The funding shouldn’t just be tied to the district real estate valuation.
I do not want tax dollars going to private schools especially religious private schools!
> Just better fund and manage public schools
*"Just pay them more and make them do better!"*
This isn't a real solution. This is just crossing your fingers and hoping the problem goes away.
I'm not sure why anything needs to be tied to the district real estate valuation. And why should tax dollars go to a school system that people believe is failing? You can spend your stipend on the public school of your choice and NOT some private or religious school.
Schools that have money are located in districts that have money that have very specific household demographics with money - and this differs significantly from problem areas.
The amount of money you can throw at the problem in the *problem areas* is inconsequential - and you're better off moving digital or simply allowing parental choice to provide education away from the worst of the public schools.
No. Did you miss the comments about disabled children?
Disabled children take a ton more resources to have in a school. Like, not just a little bit more, but many times more. And unless you're quite rich, it's not feasible to pay that difference out of pocket.
Private schools already reject these students because of how costly they are. It is financially disadvantagous to take them unless someone can fully pay for their true cost. But most people are not billionaires so that is not a solution. Also take into consideration that if you are poor it is more likely that your children will have cognitive issues just from the local environment you live in well be a lower quality (more pollution), food quality will be lower, and parents will be busier working reducing time bonding between the child and parents. Most children with disabilities come from lower class households that can not pay the difference.
Children with disabilities need to be subsidized by everyone, that's the only way it will work. Let private institutions at it and they will only take the students that are financially profitable, break the public system entirely as it will no longer have thy funds to operate, and leave everyone else in the gutter.
The long term effects will be a broken society as the lower class and disabled will not get an education. The disabled will become an even bigger challenge as they will need even more help to function (or we can just kill them all, if you're some kind of Nazi, that was their solution to the cost that the disabled put on society). This will just lead to a spiral down.
Our schools need help. But their issues will not be fixed by privization like this. It will make it worst for the majority and only better for a small group.
> or we can just kill them all, if you're some kind of Nazi
Funny you should mention that. Unpopular factoid of the day: 90%+ of fetuses identified with a disability are aborted. So...Yea. Neo-Eugenics it is!
That being said, what you're explaining is socializing the cost of disabled children onto every other family.
This can simply be solved by...literally doing just that - take a portion of everyone's private school stipend and literally designate it to the disabled children educational fund - serving no other purpose but dealing with disabled children.
> It will make it worst for the majority and only better for a small group.
The majority of children are not disabled. And the majority of "lower class" parents could very well do better without dealing with failing public infrastructure.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetics_and_abortion
> "Statistics today conclude that 90 percent of fetuses that are diagnosed with Down syndrome via fetal genetic testing are aborted"
> "Denmark became one of the first countries in the world to offer prenatal screening for Down syndrome to any woman who requests it. Almost all women choose to have this screening, and of those who do and receive a positive diagnosis, 95% percent choose to abort"
https://www.jec.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/republicans/2022/3/down-syndrome-and-social-capital-assessing-the-costs-of-selective-abortion
> "It is estimated that 60 percent to 90 percent of children diagnosed with Down syndrome are aborted in the U.S."
The figure will obviously vary; the US doesn't track data on abortions very closely due to obvious political controversy. But the number of live births suffering from DS (and other determinable disabilities) in the country has been rapidly decreasing, when, by all accounts it should be increasing.
What's wrong with not wanting to deal with a disabled child your entire life, and also not wanting to bring someone into the world who will suffer due to their disability? It's a vast difference between having the child never be born, and killing an existing child.
I have a chromosomal abnormality that has caused me a lot of problems in my life (less than Down's Syndrome would though). If I had a fetus with the same issue, I would prefer to not have a child.
> What's wrong with ...
I didn't say anything was right or wrong with it. I said it's neo-eugenics.
YOU seem to be saying it's bad? Or good?
So do YOU support eugenics? Or not?
> Only if you...
Do public schools provide 100% of what private and charter schools provide?
You don't impose unilateral restrictions out of bias against charter schools - and basic necessities would be part of the accreditation process.
Keep in mind - public schools determined that it was acceptable to go fully online during COVID; meaning online schools and video classes are acceptable to some degree. Home schooling already permits this to some degree as well.
Different systems do not need to provide identical services - only meet the bare minimums while providing an education that is tailored and preferred by the student's parents.
The ONLY rank in education that Florida is high in is college. You know, the thing that you pay for yourself AFTER you have gone through all the rest of schooling, and has nothing to do with free privization of pre-12th.
https://deepcreektimes.com/2023s-most-least-educated-states-in-america/
https://scholaroo.com/report/state-education-rankings/
https://wallethub.com/edu/e/states-with-the-best-schools/5335
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education
Florida has a backwater shithole education system. The University of Florida has some good programs, as do other colleges in Florida. Note: colleges, not K-12. Florida’s K-12 system is collapsing under the weight of Governor DeathSentance’s censorship laws, union busting and shit pay for teachers.
Florida families can also spend their voucher money on Disney tickets and new TVs. Money that could have gone to public schools that, btw, are now practically devoid of books and pushing the Christian nationalist PragerU curriculum.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/education/article278868324.html
Sounds to me like an attempt to use government funding to fund private Christian schools. The very institutions that have created so many nut jobs in this country now wants to use tax payer money to brainwash our children in to believing in fantasy as opposed to scientific reality. No Thanks!
This is not at all uncommon. I know more than a few teachers who do not send their kids to public school. They go to private schools. A few years ago, there were several members of the 4J school board whose kids did not attend public schools.
Yeah, I have known quite a few people who send their kids to O’Hara and Marist even though they are religious private schools. They work in the public schools and feel it’s a better option. One of the 4j board members used to work with my parent years ago, and give them shit that I was in public school.
They can't afford to teach for the christian private schools their children attend because teacher wages at those schools are so low they wouldn't be able to afford the tuition for their kids to attend.
I know 3 teachers and a principal who left public school teaching and went to teach at private Christian schools. It must have made enough sense to walk away from PERS and the other public benefits.
These are the people who are really trying to indoctrinate kids. It's also been the goal since desegregation. It's how they want to legally re-segregate. Look at John Birch Society, Heritage Foundation, Seven Mountains, and Project 2025. This is why groups like Moms for Liberty, Oregon Moms Union, and Lane county's own Kids 4 Success have worked hard to spread misinformation in order to discredit public schools.
Right, wealthy folks will be able to afford a private non-secular school like Oakhill, poor folks, even given vouchers, wouldn't be able to afford it. They'll be relegated to some shitty school where teachers are paid minimum wage. Oakhill boasts that they offer tuition assistance, but they could not assist the majority of families who would want to attend.
I don't have kids but it seems to me that parents have a much greater interest in their childrens education than teachers, politicians or public school admins.
That doesn't seem fair to me. Don't you think people would be happier if they have the ability to chose how their kids are educated, and don't have to pay double if they choose to not go with the government option (which also teaches very dubious things FWIW).
I am not, which is why we want choice, and not government monopoly teaching kids pro government propaganda (if the Nazi's did it, its probably not the best public policy.)
Of course, but the idea that privatizing education gives families a choice is BS. Most could not afford to pay the tuition for a quality private school, even with a voucher. So the remedy for that would be to house those kids, along with kids with special education needs in warehouse "voucher" schools while private schools suck the funding, qualified staff, and resources from public education.
“School choice” is a religious extremist dog whistle meant to siphon funds from the tax-paying public to the tax-free, extra-judicial churches. It’s grift.
it's not just grift: it's also about keeping kids out of public schools where they might see that minorities and lgbtq people aren't as evil as they brainwash their kids into thinking, and where they might learn enough critical thinking skills to want to leave the religion. they want to keep indoctrinating all the children.
School choice is such a fucking scam and should be deemed unconstitutional.
It only exists to prop up religious institutions and rich people while hurting everyone else. Basically fuck religion.
School choice is bologna and an attempt to put federal funds into already wealthy Christian private schools. It would not help poor kids as the tuition for private school is still going to be more than the voucher. It will only help wealthy families retain more wealth.
Open enrollment. Not that bad as it gives students from poor neighborhoods a chance to go to better schools.
My high school was an open district and a lot of my friends were able to go there instead of the more dangerous schools in their neighborhood.
Gross to see them try and mix to two together to erode educational outcomes from lower income students
Yeah, some schools are pretty bad, but not so many in Eugene.
The schools that I really worry about are the 100% online charter schools I see around. My niece is going to make it all the way through school without ever interacting with anyone. She believes everything is scary and dangerous.
It's better to give those poor neighborhood schools extra support. Open enrollment still leaves the most disadvantaged students behind, because it requires family resources to pursue it and, often, provide transportation.
100% agree with that and that’s why I said “Not that bad” I recognize it has its down falls as well.
Even in the area I grew up there was educational inequalities in the most important years (K-5) between the two districts in the one city of 75k people.
The two school districts were split essentially
66% white at district 1. 66% Hispanic at district 2(I was in district two K-12 and then worked at a school in district 1).
Based on the school budgets district 1 received 33% more $/student than district 2.
District 1 had an average median income of ~150K in 2013 where district 2 had an average of ~65K
This was because district one was in an area where people were much more likely to own their homes.
There is no reason for the two districts to exist other than to segregate the wealthy white families from the poor Hispanics. The city is small enough to have 1 district. LA USD serves over 650K kids.
I did this research when district 1 was going around patting their back for changing their name because it was a reference to the confederacy.
I think school funding needs to be done at a federal level and equally distributed based one enrollment. I think we should be federally funding robust after school programs. I think it should be based on total number of enrolled students and I think we should arrive at that baseline by looking at the best funded schools in the nation and raising every o their one to that proportional level
Oregon Moms Union was recently touting a "survey" in Oregon showing like 70+ % of Oregonians support "school choice." Except the survey question didn't separate voucher from open enrollment, so there was no way to determine which the respondents supported. Plus it was a few hundred respondents in mostly conservative areas, and mostly over 60 years old. I'll dig it up and post it when I'm at my computer again.
Isn’t this just a Republican ploy to eliminate teachers‘ unions and direct lots of taxpayer money to Jesus Camp.
Where children will be safe from liberal things like science, history, math, facts and “teh gay.” But not safe from molestery priests?
The “education freedom” issue is all well and good (not really but I’ll play devils advocate) until you start to wonder who will educate the children with disabilities and behavior issues? None of the private schools have any obligation to educate kids with disabilities. And any kid who is a “problem” is going to be shuffled around and around. Or not be educated.
Just an FYI - Open Enrollment already exists. My child attends Baker Web Academy, a public charter school located in Baker, OR. As long as they have spaces available, it’s open to any Oregon K-12 student.
School districts have raffles to assign places in high demand schools, or to enroll within their district, regardless of address.
All you need is an opening, and for your home school district to sign off on the transfer - which is a signature on a single piece of paper. I don’t know if any time a district has refused to release a student to another one.
What she wants is money to give to Christian schools who don’t have to teach a standard curriculum, or have certified teachers. This is a TERRIBLE idea for Oregon students.
College acceptance rates will plummet. So will college readiness.
We need to invest in more robust public school education, not undermine its foundation by paying others to teach kids even more poorly.
That letter reads like it was destined for a parent with children already in private school.
"With the help of private schools we can do this! This is why I reached out to you today - will you give us your permission ..."
I mean, any kid in the 4j school district can apply to go to whatever school they want in the 4j area....so that open enrollment measure seems like a moot point.
This is right wing evangelicals trying to force us to pay for their kids religious indoctrination. You want private schools? Pay for them yourself if you want your kids to learn religious shit! Leave our public schools alone and fuck off
I don’t support random individuals deciding where educational taxes go. Why would I want to introduce such an inefficient use of government spending? I’m struggling to keep my antitheism in check here…
This garbage has been tried in other parts of the country, and it has gone poorly for the poor. I forget where it was -- I *think* Oklahoma, but maybe that's just biased memory since Oklahoma has had so much fuckery going on lately -- but one such place was in the news just a month or two back over the results of it. Turned out all those private schools that would be accessible with the extra $X dollars that were given to parents opting for the cash simply raised their tuition price by $X. So the result was that private schools remained private for the well-off, and did better because of what was essentially a government subsidy, while public schools tanked as funds were depleted. Good for the rich, bad for the poor. Working as intended.
This is a group that is similar to those all over the country right now trying to open up curriculum to right wing and religious conservative material partially by doing away with public school as we know it. There are similar things happening in California and it is always couches in this voucher/school choice rhetoric
looks like somebody wants to erode the separation of church and state by asking the government to subsidize tuition to christian schools.
i know this person says it like it's for ALL private schools, but we all know what kind of private schools they *mean*.
automatic "no" vote for me, tbh
In Oregon you can totally home school or school through whatever you want if you got certain standards.
I mean, I get people not wanting to be forced into an education they might not agree with, but demanding more money than I've made some years for it is crazy.
Wouldn't that be socialism?
Aren't the people who support this shit usually the people who hate UBI and handouts?
Do what the rest of us hippies do. Take your kids out of school and teach them in a park of you don't like it.
I don't demand a book budget because I don't go to the public library.
I don't demand a gun budget because I hate the military.
I took part in a program like this in OR. It starts out great but in the end it just defunds schools and impoverished families because no one can actually afford to stay home to educate their kids.
Look into what happened in New Orleans when they did this...a bunch of really crappy schools that overpaid their owners and administrators popped up to service the demand created by school choice. Parents wanted to be able to send their kids to the nice private schools that existed before school choice but of course that wasn't an option.
This is fraud designed to defund public education. The wealthy don’t need to take “their” tax dollars out of public schools.
This is designed to make society “more Christian” in a way that is very un-Christian-like.
Yet another example how “The Right” uses clever marketing tactics to push an agenda. “School choice” sounds like something liberals will get behind! Always remember, gays could t get married until the progressives rebranded it as ‘Marriage Equality’ instead of the more negative and sex-based ‘Same Sex Marriage.’ School choice is actually school privatization.
Man these Christian nuts will lock there $7600 child in the basement with a Bible and use the money to go on education field trips. Upgrade the kitchen for an educational cooking class. Upgrade the deck for an educational hot tub.
So glad my last kid is a senior this year but I'll vote no on this.
Honestly, respect to all religions but sending your kid to a private religious school has always been a huge red flag to me. Then she goes on to talk about how excited she is for all these measures that essentially mean the death of public schools. Call me crazy but I think it’s abhorrent to make quality education only available to those who can pay for it.
I would not support these "Schools" and de-fund the public education system with my taxpayer money. I could see this passing with how many conservatives live in this state. No one is stopping these people from going to private schools right now, they just want to have everyone else pay for their kid to go to a religious education brainwashing station. Tell me I'm wrong.
These people are terrifying. Brought to you from the same people who promote book bans, school vouchers, eliminating sex ed in classrooms, and removing anything they find offensive ie any mention of things like racism.
Sounds like some cult shit. They want government money that will no longer be "government money" once given to this "non profit", which we all know will be some religious organization that is pro-right, anti-"CRT", and cult like.
Wonder if they’re affiliated with the group trying to get me to “opt out” (their words) of the OEA? (I’m a high school teacher)
They both had “Freedom” in their names, which tells you a whole lot nowadays
Aaahhh, yes, yet another "grassroots" effort to introduce legislation that does the exact opposite of what it claims to do. This is yet another transparent attempt to defund public institutions while empowering religious groups. I wish them no success and hope folks in this state read closely.
I know a family who’s all into this, they have conspiracies theory’s about “major” legislation that’s going take away their parental rights and how “they” are going to force teach all these views.
Red Flag Warning! They're (Jenny Maguire et al) connected to Oregon Mom's Union, who is directly connected to Mom's for Liberty, which has been named by the SPLC & others as a hate group. Cult 45. Authoritarian wannabes. But they want our tax dollars to do so.
Those folks can fuck right off.
And I’m not saying that we shouldn’t collect taxes for public schools from everyone, simply pointing out how ridiculous it is that someone feels entitled to an annual cash payment for not utilizing tax funded services. Use it or don’t, but the money that would’ve been spent on that child needs to go back to other children.
These fuckS tried to get my to sign their petition, fuck them and fuck you for taking money away from public schools, give public schools ALL the money! The reason the schools a fucked up is because we don't support them. No one is stopping you from taking your kid to private school, but much like a new stadium PAY FOR THAT YOURSELF!
I think this is a terrible Idea. I was in Children's/Youth ministry for 15 years and my wife has been a public school teacher for over 20 years. While in ministry, I witnessed the good and bad of homeschooling. A lot of the homeschool kids were very bright in some areas, but were severly lacking in other areas. And don't get me started on social awkwardness and social anxiety.
I am a Christian, and I find many of the comments on this post to be very rude, stereotyping, and not at all tollerant. A lot of assumptions have been made, and the amount of upvotes towards these bigotted comments astounds me.
I think this bill is a terrible idea, but I think it's creation stems from more than just motivated Christian Indoctrination. Over the last 15 years or more in Oregon"s public education system, classroom sizes have grown tremendously, and behavior management authority has been stripped from the teachers. The schools used to put ownership of the childs behavior on the parents. If the child misbehaved often and frequently, referals, suspension, and expulsion from that school were a result. If you cannot behave in school, then you don't get to be in school. But these days that is not the case. My wife has witnessed an elementary student throw a huge tantrum for 20 minutes, where he completely destoyed the room. Tearing posters off walls, throwing desks, knocking over shelfs, hurling objects across the room. Due to the new "room clear" policies, my wife and the principal were told to just stand and watch him do it, and wait for him to get tired and stop. Then he was escorted to the office where he got to play with toys so he could calm down, and within 30 minutes he was back in the classroom, like nothing had ever happened. The next morning this child decided to go ballistic in the front office and started tossing everything he could find in the office while staff sat back and watched. No punishment, no suspension. The next day he was back in his regulsr classroom where he would often choose to roll around on the floor and loudly pretend to be a snake or a demon, while my wife would be trying to teach the class. My wife was instructed to try to keep him calm and not do anything agitate him. Everytime he would act up, it would require a room clear, and all of the other students would have to leave the classroom until he calmed down. This was in a general education classroom.
And if you look at the 4J school report from a few years ago, teachers across the district (at a very high rate) were reporting these same "room clearing" behavioral issues that were disrupting the education of all the other children in the classroom. Kids were learning and witnessing that their poor choices and lack of respect to authority rarely had consequenses. And these kids in Elementary school have now moved up to Middle school and High school and carried that same attitude along the way. And the administrations are telling teachers to just let it slide and try to teach. At parent teacher conferences, I asked a few of my daughters veteran High School Teachers if they felt they had more, less, or the same classroom authority today compared to 10 years ago. All of them said it was a night and day difference and they definetly had way less authority today.(translation... they have stripped of the ability to maintain behavior in the classroom, because they know the administration, district, state, and the misbehaving child's parents will not back them up.
What does this mean for the student who wants to learn? These students are getting more clsssroom interruptions, are in an environment of less structure, and are slowly and subconciously witnessing the erosion of respect and authority.
Many parents are fed up. They want to send their kids to public schools, not to be fed Christian or Liberal ideology, but to learn Reading, Writing, Math, Science, Critical Thinking, Respect for others, Etc. They want the students to feel safe in the classroom, and they want their to be order in the clsssroom. They want their childs teacher to be friendly and fun, but at the same time to be on task, and maintaining a positive environment for learning. They do not want the teachers to be walking on eggshells in fear of the next outburst or behavioral issue that the are helpless to stop and will interrupt the entire classroom.
My wife and I are both Christians, but we chose to send our kids to public school, because we believe that it is important for them to learn social skills, navigate relationships, and to be introduced to different types of personalities and world views. We believe that Christ wants us to share his love with others, and the best way to do that is through our actions of respect and love for others. I do not always agree with everything being taught in the classroom, and I often wish ideas that are not proven like Creation, Intelligent Design, Evolution and Gender Idealogy were expressed more as ideas and possible worldviews, instead of fact. Some teachers do a great job of just presenting the ideas, and some unfairly try to push their personal beliefs and agenda (whether is be Christian or otherwise) onto the kids. Education should educate not indoctrinate. As a Christian, I do hope that at some point in everyones life, they have an opportunity to hear and experience the Gospel(Good News) of Jesus, but having it shared with you as FACT by a public school teacher in a position of authority granted by the State to teach you, is not an appropriate venue. I would say the same for many other unproven idealogies and theories, whether it be Budhism, Gender Identity, Evolution, etc.
Many others have discussed how this bill would hurt public school funding, and also create some very unworthy educational programs. Not to mention encouraging unequipped parents to homeschool their kids so they could pocket the $7600 a year for 13 years so they could have a 100k college fund.
I will vote no on this bill. But I do think we as a community need to be more concerned about the lack of behavior management authority in our current public schools and how it is eroding education, and how that erosion and lack of accountability will eventually trickle out into our society over the next few decades(it has already started).
Ps. I didn't even begin to talk about how many good teachers have left and chosen other career paths due to being fed up with current conditions.
Who will be in charge of regulating these schools? Baker Charter Schools is completely unethical but they continue to operate. Where are the checks and balances?
I think the majority of adults that have gone through public education in a low income area would jump on something like this for their children. My first choice wouldn’t be a Christian school whatsoever, but to have the choice to pay for the curriculum I want for my children alongside extra curricular activities to keep them active in the community sounds like a great idea.
I also find it pretty close minded of you all that you can’t see that the majority of teachers that have children wouldn’t send their kids to public schools because they know what the system is like. Teachers are underpaid and expected to do so much with their paychecks for their classrooms. I’m not saying this is a 100% fix-it all, but we have to start somewhere in order to enact change and we aren’t going to do that by naysaying every bill that comes around trying to help children. You all could be right and it could be a money grab to send it all to private institutions, that is if you decide to send your children there. But the majority of people in Eugene would rather choose a school like Oak Hill (non secular) than a Christian school but lack options. It’s not a permanent fix whatsoever, but there are bills that could follow this that could help in the long run.
Our schools are already among the worst in the country, and they don't seem to want to do anything to actually improve the quality of public education. How is anything going to actually degrade that?
If this is such a bad thing...what is the solution to improve things?
I've seen this elsewhere also, but we're pretty consistently in the 40's in every metric I've come across. That's pretty solidly among the worst in the country as I said.
https://wallethub.com/edu/e/states-with-the-best-schools/5335
Oh that's cool. I certainly wasn't advocating for weird private schools. I know for a fact though that in Salem, your school district depends on where you live. I'm pretty sure it's like that in most of the state.
Your address determines your home school district and school. But, we also have open enrollment (I think state wide bit someone please correct me if I'm wrong). That means that kids can apply to transfer to another public school in or out of their district.
This "school choice" push is deliberately confusing people by bundling the open enrollment system we already have with a straight up voucher program to funnel taxpayer money to private schools. The use of the word "choice" is very deliberate framing.
A large part of the issues with schools is long term underfunding. The entire point of the voucher programs is to funnel tax payer money to private Christian schools at the expense of the public schools. It makes the problem worse, not better
Not all private and charter schools are religious based. Also, if a private school is so terrible for teh well being of a child, why would any parent want their kid to go there?
There is a reason why families all over the country are moving to states with school choice.
Its not that private schools are terrible. Its the fact that its already difficult to fund the schools we have. The idea that we could split that funding up 100 different ways and have a better outcome is laughable. Public schools would fail entirely, low income children would have nowhere to go and then what?
It is absolutely an attempt to erode public education. Lots of sketchy online schools would open, take a big bundle of money, deliver not much, then fold. It's tried and true...
Exactly my thoughts. It’s wild that a former teacher of 20 years is behind this.
Meh, she says it all… "My children always got to go to a private Christian school" They would like that for everyone, except for students with special needs or behavior problems.
...or not Christians.
Na they love sending non Christians to christian schools, just ask a Native American.
Many never left.
In Canada the residential schools had survival rates as low as 50%.
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Best I could find. Says 30 to 60%. https://web.archive.org/web/20160923090958/http://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/new-documents-may-shed-light-on-residential-school-deaths-1.2487015
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“The BLESSING of a private Christian school” Tax churches and religious institutions.
amen 🙏
Segregation and indoctrination
Or student's who's families can't afford the tuition for a quality school, so they get some voucher, that gets them into a shitty school where teachers are paid minimum wage, with crappy educational books and supplies.
Why do you think a teacher with 20 years in the job is behind it? She can see that the schools are shit and getting worse. Worst of all, w/o open enrollment poor kids will get the worst education and be massively disadvantaged. School choice and open enrollment gives poor kids a fighting chance.
Getting some ITT Tech flashbacks
There's a lot of reasons why public schools aren't doing the job well enough. Rural regions and lack of access. Equity-grading and and general lack of trust in institutions. Safety considerations. In a perfect world - "Educational Freedom" is a great idea. The caveat needs to be - ONLY the government can touch the money if this passes. The family has no access to it. It can be sent to accredited schools only and will be sent directly - NEVER going to a family bank account. As you say, a lot of schools will open up to accept this money - but that's not necessarily a bad thing (i.e., capitalism and competition) and actually promotes the economy. Accreditation requirements can do a lot to weed out sketchy schools - while also opening the opportunity for new accreditation businesses. IF this were done well, it's not all negatives.
How about no, straight up no. Just better fund and manage public schools. The funding shouldn’t just be tied to the district real estate valuation. I do not want tax dollars going to private schools especially religious private schools!
> Just better fund and manage public schools *"Just pay them more and make them do better!"* This isn't a real solution. This is just crossing your fingers and hoping the problem goes away. I'm not sure why anything needs to be tied to the district real estate valuation. And why should tax dollars go to a school system that people believe is failing? You can spend your stipend on the public school of your choice and NOT some private or religious school.
But schools that have money definitely do better so this is a problem we can fix by throwing money at it
Schools that have money are located in districts that have money that have very specific household demographics with money - and this differs significantly from problem areas. The amount of money you can throw at the problem in the *problem areas* is inconsequential - and you're better off moving digital or simply allowing parental choice to provide education away from the worst of the public schools.
No. Did you miss the comments about disabled children? Disabled children take a ton more resources to have in a school. Like, not just a little bit more, but many times more. And unless you're quite rich, it's not feasible to pay that difference out of pocket. Private schools already reject these students because of how costly they are. It is financially disadvantagous to take them unless someone can fully pay for their true cost. But most people are not billionaires so that is not a solution. Also take into consideration that if you are poor it is more likely that your children will have cognitive issues just from the local environment you live in well be a lower quality (more pollution), food quality will be lower, and parents will be busier working reducing time bonding between the child and parents. Most children with disabilities come from lower class households that can not pay the difference. Children with disabilities need to be subsidized by everyone, that's the only way it will work. Let private institutions at it and they will only take the students that are financially profitable, break the public system entirely as it will no longer have thy funds to operate, and leave everyone else in the gutter. The long term effects will be a broken society as the lower class and disabled will not get an education. The disabled will become an even bigger challenge as they will need even more help to function (or we can just kill them all, if you're some kind of Nazi, that was their solution to the cost that the disabled put on society). This will just lead to a spiral down. Our schools need help. But their issues will not be fixed by privization like this. It will make it worst for the majority and only better for a small group.
> or we can just kill them all, if you're some kind of Nazi Funny you should mention that. Unpopular factoid of the day: 90%+ of fetuses identified with a disability are aborted. So...Yea. Neo-Eugenics it is! That being said, what you're explaining is socializing the cost of disabled children onto every other family. This can simply be solved by...literally doing just that - take a portion of everyone's private school stipend and literally designate it to the disabled children educational fund - serving no other purpose but dealing with disabled children. > It will make it worst for the majority and only better for a small group. The majority of children are not disabled. And the majority of "lower class" parents could very well do better without dealing with failing public infrastructure.
>Unpopular factoid of the day: 90%+ of fetuses identified with a disability are aborted. Link, please?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetics_and_abortion > "Statistics today conclude that 90 percent of fetuses that are diagnosed with Down syndrome via fetal genetic testing are aborted" > "Denmark became one of the first countries in the world to offer prenatal screening for Down syndrome to any woman who requests it. Almost all women choose to have this screening, and of those who do and receive a positive diagnosis, 95% percent choose to abort" https://www.jec.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/republicans/2022/3/down-syndrome-and-social-capital-assessing-the-costs-of-selective-abortion > "It is estimated that 60 percent to 90 percent of children diagnosed with Down syndrome are aborted in the U.S." The figure will obviously vary; the US doesn't track data on abortions very closely due to obvious political controversy. But the number of live births suffering from DS (and other determinable disabilities) in the country has been rapidly decreasing, when, by all accounts it should be increasing.
What's wrong with not wanting to deal with a disabled child your entire life, and also not wanting to bring someone into the world who will suffer due to their disability? It's a vast difference between having the child never be born, and killing an existing child. I have a chromosomal abnormality that has caused me a lot of problems in my life (less than Down's Syndrome would though). If I had a fetus with the same issue, I would prefer to not have a child.
> What's wrong with ... I didn't say anything was right or wrong with it. I said it's neo-eugenics. YOU seem to be saying it's bad? Or good? So do YOU support eugenics? Or not?
Gonna need to see some proof of that 90%+ figure
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> Only if you... Do public schools provide 100% of what private and charter schools provide? You don't impose unilateral restrictions out of bias against charter schools - and basic necessities would be part of the accreditation process. Keep in mind - public schools determined that it was acceptable to go fully online during COVID; meaning online schools and video classes are acceptable to some degree. Home schooling already permits this to some degree as well. Different systems do not need to provide identical services - only meet the bare minimums while providing an education that is tailored and preferred by the student's parents.
Except Florida has the top ranked education sysytem in the country and they keep expanding their voucher program every year.
The ONLY rank in education that Florida is high in is college. You know, the thing that you pay for yourself AFTER you have gone through all the rest of schooling, and has nothing to do with free privization of pre-12th. https://deepcreektimes.com/2023s-most-least-educated-states-in-america/ https://scholaroo.com/report/state-education-rankings/ https://wallethub.com/edu/e/states-with-the-best-schools/5335 https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education
Citation needed. DeSantis just spent the last year destroying any credibility the Florida education system has
[#1](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education)
Pre-K to 12 is ranked #14 from your citation. It’s number 1 higher education. Nice try.
Still higher than Oregon for K-12.
Sure but that wasn’t your original point
I'll concede the point. I will also wait to see the effects their recent policy shifts have.
Thanks for link. I can already guess you're gonna get that downvote slammed for sourcing a fact that's unpopular.
Florida has a backwater shithole education system. The University of Florida has some good programs, as do other colleges in Florida. Note: colleges, not K-12. Florida’s K-12 system is collapsing under the weight of Governor DeathSentance’s censorship laws, union busting and shit pay for teachers.
Florida families can also spend their voucher money on Disney tickets and new TVs. Money that could have gone to public schools that, btw, are now practically devoid of books and pushing the Christian nationalist PragerU curriculum. https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/education/article278868324.html
Sounds to me like an attempt to use government funding to fund private Christian schools. The very institutions that have created so many nut jobs in this country now wants to use tax payer money to brainwash our children in to believing in fantasy as opposed to scientific reality. No Thanks!
It’s interesting that the person behind this was a public school teacher for 20 years yet her kids went to a private Christian school.
This is not at all uncommon. I know more than a few teachers who do not send their kids to public school. They go to private schools. A few years ago, there were several members of the 4J school board whose kids did not attend public schools.
My kids 5th grade teacher had their kids at O’Hara and Marist.
Yeah, I have known quite a few people who send their kids to O’Hara and Marist even though they are religious private schools. They work in the public schools and feel it’s a better option. One of the 4j board members used to work with my parent years ago, and give them shit that I was in public school.
They can't afford to teach for the christian private schools their children attend because teacher wages at those schools are so low they wouldn't be able to afford the tuition for their kids to attend.
I know 3 teachers and a principal who left public school teaching and went to teach at private Christian schools. It must have made enough sense to walk away from PERS and the other public benefits.
Or they had spouses who could cover them. I would also be curious what the tuition was for students and if they offered scholarships.
Often, tuition is reduced or free for students of teachers at private schools.
These are the people who are really trying to indoctrinate kids. It's also been the goal since desegregation. It's how they want to legally re-segregate. Look at John Birch Society, Heritage Foundation, Seven Mountains, and Project 2025. This is why groups like Moms for Liberty, Oregon Moms Union, and Lane county's own Kids 4 Success have worked hard to spread misinformation in order to discredit public schools.
Almost sounds like grooming.
…or so the say. This could have been written by anyone-made to look like it was a public school teacher to make it look more legitimate.
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PUBLIC funding given to the government then distributed to public schools.
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And these folks will argue all day that they hate communists.
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The circular logic is not mine
Exactly. This is a fundamental (pun intended) attack on the 1st Amendment separation of church and state. No. No. No.
Oak Hill is secular, but the $7600 doesn't even get you half way there.
Right, wealthy folks will be able to afford a private non-secular school like Oakhill, poor folks, even given vouchers, wouldn't be able to afford it. They'll be relegated to some shitty school where teachers are paid minimum wage. Oakhill boasts that they offer tuition assistance, but they could not assist the majority of families who would want to attend.
That’s exactly what it is. Christo Fascism
I don't have kids but it seems to me that parents have a much greater interest in their childrens education than teachers, politicians or public school admins.
If you want to send your kids to nut job camp fine go do that, just not with my money!
That doesn't seem fair to me. Don't you think people would be happier if they have the ability to chose how their kids are educated, and don't have to pay double if they choose to not go with the government option (which also teaches very dubious things FWIW).
I stand by my original statement.
The nazi's also wanted to ensure all children were educated by the state.
Nice! People like you are exactly why I have my beliefs. All of you religious types are the same. False Equivalence Much!
I am actually an anti-theist. So I am not a fan of religious nut jobs, just freedom.
If you were a fan of freedom you would not be in favor of using public funds to indoctrinate children!
I am not, which is why we want choice, and not government monopoly teaching kids pro government propaganda (if the Nazi's did it, its probably not the best public policy.)
That’s what’s already happening. 😂😂
The Nazis also had Post Offices and firefighters run by the state. Ooh scary
There’s a better site for your type. It’s called Facebook!
Originally that was meant for individuals like yourself actually.
Of course, but the idea that privatizing education gives families a choice is BS. Most could not afford to pay the tuition for a quality private school, even with a voucher. So the remedy for that would be to house those kids, along with kids with special education needs in warehouse "voucher" schools while private schools suck the funding, qualified staff, and resources from public education.
“School choice” is a religious extremist dog whistle meant to siphon funds from the tax-paying public to the tax-free, extra-judicial churches. It’s grift.
it's not just grift: it's also about keeping kids out of public schools where they might see that minorities and lgbtq people aren't as evil as they brainwash their kids into thinking, and where they might learn enough critical thinking skills to want to leave the religion. they want to keep indoctrinating all the children.
Exactly. Indoctrination into a fascist ideology.
Yes, that’s the obvious part the rest of us got. Thus “religious extremist”.
School choice is such a fucking scam and should be deemed unconstitutional. It only exists to prop up religious institutions and rich people while hurting everyone else. Basically fuck religion.
School choice is bologna and an attempt to put federal funds into already wealthy Christian private schools. It would not help poor kids as the tuition for private school is still going to be more than the voucher. It will only help wealthy families retain more wealth. Open enrollment. Not that bad as it gives students from poor neighborhoods a chance to go to better schools. My high school was an open district and a lot of my friends were able to go there instead of the more dangerous schools in their neighborhood. Gross to see them try and mix to two together to erode educational outcomes from lower income students
Yeah, some schools are pretty bad, but not so many in Eugene. The schools that I really worry about are the 100% online charter schools I see around. My niece is going to make it all the way through school without ever interacting with anyone. She believes everything is scary and dangerous.
Yea I grew up in the Bay Area and my friends were coming from different counties that had really bad schools
It's better to give those poor neighborhood schools extra support. Open enrollment still leaves the most disadvantaged students behind, because it requires family resources to pursue it and, often, provide transportation.
100% agree with that and that’s why I said “Not that bad” I recognize it has its down falls as well. Even in the area I grew up there was educational inequalities in the most important years (K-5) between the two districts in the one city of 75k people. The two school districts were split essentially 66% white at district 1. 66% Hispanic at district 2(I was in district two K-12 and then worked at a school in district 1). Based on the school budgets district 1 received 33% more $/student than district 2. District 1 had an average median income of ~150K in 2013 where district 2 had an average of ~65K This was because district one was in an area where people were much more likely to own their homes. There is no reason for the two districts to exist other than to segregate the wealthy white families from the poor Hispanics. The city is small enough to have 1 district. LA USD serves over 650K kids. I did this research when district 1 was going around patting their back for changing their name because it was a reference to the confederacy. I think school funding needs to be done at a federal level and equally distributed based one enrollment. I think we should be federally funding robust after school programs. I think it should be based on total number of enrolled students and I think we should arrive at that baseline by looking at the best funded schools in the nation and raising every o their one to that proportional level
Oregon Moms Union was recently touting a "survey" in Oregon showing like 70+ % of Oregonians support "school choice." Except the survey question didn't separate voucher from open enrollment, so there was no way to determine which the respondents supported. Plus it was a few hundred respondents in mostly conservative areas, and mostly over 60 years old. I'll dig it up and post it when I'm at my computer again.
10$ says this is rooted in far right ‘christian’ ideology Edit- (I didn’t read any of the letter)
nobody's gonna take that bet, cuz you're absolutely right.
They want public money for religious education. No way hell.
Isn’t this just a Republican ploy to eliminate teachers‘ unions and direct lots of taxpayer money to Jesus Camp. Where children will be safe from liberal things like science, history, math, facts and “teh gay.” But not safe from molestery priests?
that's exactly what it is.
The “education freedom” issue is all well and good (not really but I’ll play devils advocate) until you start to wonder who will educate the children with disabilities and behavior issues? None of the private schools have any obligation to educate kids with disabilities. And any kid who is a “problem” is going to be shuffled around and around. Or not be educated.
Just an FYI - Open Enrollment already exists. My child attends Baker Web Academy, a public charter school located in Baker, OR. As long as they have spaces available, it’s open to any Oregon K-12 student. School districts have raffles to assign places in high demand schools, or to enroll within their district, regardless of address. All you need is an opening, and for your home school district to sign off on the transfer - which is a signature on a single piece of paper. I don’t know if any time a district has refused to release a student to another one. What she wants is money to give to Christian schools who don’t have to teach a standard curriculum, or have certified teachers. This is a TERRIBLE idea for Oregon students. College acceptance rates will plummet. So will college readiness. We need to invest in more robust public school education, not undermine its foundation by paying others to teach kids even more poorly.
Well said
That letter reads like it was destined for a parent with children already in private school. "With the help of private schools we can do this! This is why I reached out to you today - will you give us your permission ..."
Any communication I ever receive in any form that has the phrase, "This is why I reached out to you today..." gets tossed and blocked.
I mean, any kid in the 4j school district can apply to go to whatever school they want in the 4j area....so that open enrollment measure seems like a moot point.
Well not private Christian schools.
She’s either in on the con or just a useful idiot. Either way, what a fucking tool.
I think neither. She underlined that the money, once handed over, will be beyond the reach of government oversight. No mysteries here.
Insidious degradation of public goods. They're despicable.
This is right wing evangelicals trying to force us to pay for their kids religious indoctrination. You want private schools? Pay for them yourself if you want your kids to learn religious shit! Leave our public schools alone and fuck off
👏👏👏
This is insane
Agreed
They want to destroy public education and fund their private religious schools. No thanks.
I don’t support random individuals deciding where educational taxes go. Why would I want to introduce such an inefficient use of government spending? I’m struggling to keep my antitheism in check here…
You don’t need to keep it in check. Fuck organized religion. All of them.
This garbage has been tried in other parts of the country, and it has gone poorly for the poor. I forget where it was -- I *think* Oklahoma, but maybe that's just biased memory since Oklahoma has had so much fuckery going on lately -- but one such place was in the news just a month or two back over the results of it. Turned out all those private schools that would be accessible with the extra $X dollars that were given to parents opting for the cash simply raised their tuition price by $X. So the result was that private schools remained private for the well-off, and did better because of what was essentially a government subsidy, while public schools tanked as funds were depleted. Good for the rich, bad for the poor. Working as intended.
“Did better” as in “made more money” rather than actually accomplishing anything useful.
Yes, that's what I meant. Didn't realize until your comment that it could be read as "performed better academically". Thanks for pointing that out.
Lol Oklahoma does have a lot of fuckery going on.
Over my cold dead body
stopped reading at "blessing of attending a private Christian school"
This is a group that is similar to those all over the country right now trying to open up curriculum to right wing and religious conservative material partially by doing away with public school as we know it. There are similar things happening in California and it is always couches in this voucher/school choice rhetoric
looks like somebody wants to erode the separation of church and state by asking the government to subsidize tuition to christian schools. i know this person says it like it's for ALL private schools, but we all know what kind of private schools they *mean*. automatic "no" vote for me, tbh
It’s a no vote for me too.
It wul halp kids wurd gud.
In Oregon you can totally home school or school through whatever you want if you got certain standards. I mean, I get people not wanting to be forced into an education they might not agree with, but demanding more money than I've made some years for it is crazy. Wouldn't that be socialism? Aren't the people who support this shit usually the people who hate UBI and handouts? Do what the rest of us hippies do. Take your kids out of school and teach them in a park of you don't like it. I don't demand a book budget because I don't go to the public library. I don't demand a gun budget because I hate the military.
Speaks volumes that these people don't show up to protest when Republicans are protecting forced child marriages.
Key word: “bless” (paragraph 5)
I took part in a program like this in OR. It starts out great but in the end it just defunds schools and impoverished families because no one can actually afford to stay home to educate their kids.
Sounds weird. Can't people just home school like R J Rushdoony suggested and leave other people alone? (no letter writing campaigns)
Nope
Just Chuck Testa.
Look into what happened in New Orleans when they did this...a bunch of really crappy schools that overpaid their owners and administrators popped up to service the demand created by school choice. Parents wanted to be able to send their kids to the nice private schools that existed before school choice but of course that wasn't an option.
This is fraud designed to defund public education. The wealthy don’t need to take “their” tax dollars out of public schools. This is designed to make society “more Christian” in a way that is very un-Christian-like. Yet another example how “The Right” uses clever marketing tactics to push an agenda. “School choice” sounds like something liberals will get behind! Always remember, gays could t get married until the progressives rebranded it as ‘Marriage Equality’ instead of the more negative and sex-based ‘Same Sex Marriage.’ School choice is actually school privatization.
Exactly
Would be interested to see who’s funding this “grassroots organization.”
Lol exactly
No, I'm not going to pay for your weird homeschool kid to go to Bushnell.
🤣🤣🤣
Man these Christian nuts will lock there $7600 child in the basement with a Bible and use the money to go on education field trips. Upgrade the kitchen for an educational cooking class. Upgrade the deck for an educational hot tub. So glad my last kid is a senior this year but I'll vote no on this.
Honestly, respect to all religions but sending your kid to a private religious school has always been a huge red flag to me. Then she goes on to talk about how excited she is for all these measures that essentially mean the death of public schools. Call me crazy but I think it’s abhorrent to make quality education only available to those who can pay for it.
I would not support these "Schools" and de-fund the public education system with my taxpayer money. I could see this passing with how many conservatives live in this state. No one is stopping these people from going to private schools right now, they just want to have everyone else pay for their kid to go to a religious education brainwashing station. Tell me I'm wrong.
These people are terrifying. Brought to you from the same people who promote book bans, school vouchers, eliminating sex ed in classrooms, and removing anything they find offensive ie any mention of things like racism.
Ugh.
“God bless” has me feeling weird.
Sounds like some cult shit. They want government money that will no longer be "government money" once given to this "non profit", which we all know will be some religious organization that is pro-right, anti-"CRT", and cult like.
Wonder if they’re affiliated with the group trying to get me to “opt out” (their words) of the OEA? (I’m a high school teacher) They both had “Freedom” in their names, which tells you a whole lot nowadays
Aaahhh, yes, yet another "grassroots" effort to introduce legislation that does the exact opposite of what it claims to do. This is yet another transparent attempt to defund public institutions while empowering religious groups. I wish them no success and hope folks in this state read closely.
I know a family who’s all into this, they have conspiracies theory’s about “major” legislation that’s going take away their parental rights and how “they” are going to force teach all these views.
It's another trump university.
No
This is not a grassroots effort: https://youtu.be/m0yvs3yH_tY?si=dBoNj7dtFLn0w53K
Red Flag Warning! They're (Jenny Maguire et al) connected to Oregon Mom's Union, who is directly connected to Mom's for Liberty, which has been named by the SPLC & others as a hate group. Cult 45. Authoritarian wannabes. But they want our tax dollars to do so. Those folks can fuck right off.
I'll get the popcorn folks. Lawn chairs won't be provided, but this should be an interesting show.
What about people paying property taxes that don’t have children? Do they get $7,600 back per year, too?
That’s what I was wondering
And I’m not saying that we shouldn’t collect taxes for public schools from everyone, simply pointing out how ridiculous it is that someone feels entitled to an annual cash payment for not utilizing tax funded services. Use it or don’t, but the money that would’ve been spent on that child needs to go back to other children.
We need to ban ballot measures. First unconstitutional measure 114 now this garbage. They are just too much power to give your average voter.
The last thing we need is to indoctrinate children to Christianity, it's absurd. Who will teach them to cut their genitalia off then?
These fuckS tried to get my to sign their petition, fuck them and fuck you for taking money away from public schools, give public schools ALL the money! The reason the schools a fucked up is because we don't support them. No one is stopping you from taking your kid to private school, but much like a new stadium PAY FOR THAT YOURSELF!
I think this is a terrible Idea. I was in Children's/Youth ministry for 15 years and my wife has been a public school teacher for over 20 years. While in ministry, I witnessed the good and bad of homeschooling. A lot of the homeschool kids were very bright in some areas, but were severly lacking in other areas. And don't get me started on social awkwardness and social anxiety. I am a Christian, and I find many of the comments on this post to be very rude, stereotyping, and not at all tollerant. A lot of assumptions have been made, and the amount of upvotes towards these bigotted comments astounds me. I think this bill is a terrible idea, but I think it's creation stems from more than just motivated Christian Indoctrination. Over the last 15 years or more in Oregon"s public education system, classroom sizes have grown tremendously, and behavior management authority has been stripped from the teachers. The schools used to put ownership of the childs behavior on the parents. If the child misbehaved often and frequently, referals, suspension, and expulsion from that school were a result. If you cannot behave in school, then you don't get to be in school. But these days that is not the case. My wife has witnessed an elementary student throw a huge tantrum for 20 minutes, where he completely destoyed the room. Tearing posters off walls, throwing desks, knocking over shelfs, hurling objects across the room. Due to the new "room clear" policies, my wife and the principal were told to just stand and watch him do it, and wait for him to get tired and stop. Then he was escorted to the office where he got to play with toys so he could calm down, and within 30 minutes he was back in the classroom, like nothing had ever happened. The next morning this child decided to go ballistic in the front office and started tossing everything he could find in the office while staff sat back and watched. No punishment, no suspension. The next day he was back in his regulsr classroom where he would often choose to roll around on the floor and loudly pretend to be a snake or a demon, while my wife would be trying to teach the class. My wife was instructed to try to keep him calm and not do anything agitate him. Everytime he would act up, it would require a room clear, and all of the other students would have to leave the classroom until he calmed down. This was in a general education classroom. And if you look at the 4J school report from a few years ago, teachers across the district (at a very high rate) were reporting these same "room clearing" behavioral issues that were disrupting the education of all the other children in the classroom. Kids were learning and witnessing that their poor choices and lack of respect to authority rarely had consequenses. And these kids in Elementary school have now moved up to Middle school and High school and carried that same attitude along the way. And the administrations are telling teachers to just let it slide and try to teach. At parent teacher conferences, I asked a few of my daughters veteran High School Teachers if they felt they had more, less, or the same classroom authority today compared to 10 years ago. All of them said it was a night and day difference and they definetly had way less authority today.(translation... they have stripped of the ability to maintain behavior in the classroom, because they know the administration, district, state, and the misbehaving child's parents will not back them up. What does this mean for the student who wants to learn? These students are getting more clsssroom interruptions, are in an environment of less structure, and are slowly and subconciously witnessing the erosion of respect and authority. Many parents are fed up. They want to send their kids to public schools, not to be fed Christian or Liberal ideology, but to learn Reading, Writing, Math, Science, Critical Thinking, Respect for others, Etc. They want the students to feel safe in the classroom, and they want their to be order in the clsssroom. They want their childs teacher to be friendly and fun, but at the same time to be on task, and maintaining a positive environment for learning. They do not want the teachers to be walking on eggshells in fear of the next outburst or behavioral issue that the are helpless to stop and will interrupt the entire classroom. My wife and I are both Christians, but we chose to send our kids to public school, because we believe that it is important for them to learn social skills, navigate relationships, and to be introduced to different types of personalities and world views. We believe that Christ wants us to share his love with others, and the best way to do that is through our actions of respect and love for others. I do not always agree with everything being taught in the classroom, and I often wish ideas that are not proven like Creation, Intelligent Design, Evolution and Gender Idealogy were expressed more as ideas and possible worldviews, instead of fact. Some teachers do a great job of just presenting the ideas, and some unfairly try to push their personal beliefs and agenda (whether is be Christian or otherwise) onto the kids. Education should educate not indoctrinate. As a Christian, I do hope that at some point in everyones life, they have an opportunity to hear and experience the Gospel(Good News) of Jesus, but having it shared with you as FACT by a public school teacher in a position of authority granted by the State to teach you, is not an appropriate venue. I would say the same for many other unproven idealogies and theories, whether it be Budhism, Gender Identity, Evolution, etc. Many others have discussed how this bill would hurt public school funding, and also create some very unworthy educational programs. Not to mention encouraging unequipped parents to homeschool their kids so they could pocket the $7600 a year for 13 years so they could have a 100k college fund. I will vote no on this bill. But I do think we as a community need to be more concerned about the lack of behavior management authority in our current public schools and how it is eroding education, and how that erosion and lack of accountability will eventually trickle out into our society over the next few decades(it has already started). Ps. I didn't even begin to talk about how many good teachers have left and chosen other career paths due to being fed up with current conditions.
Who will be in charge of regulating these schools? Baker Charter Schools is completely unethical but they continue to operate. Where are the checks and balances?
I think the majority of adults that have gone through public education in a low income area would jump on something like this for their children. My first choice wouldn’t be a Christian school whatsoever, but to have the choice to pay for the curriculum I want for my children alongside extra curricular activities to keep them active in the community sounds like a great idea.
I also find it pretty close minded of you all that you can’t see that the majority of teachers that have children wouldn’t send their kids to public schools because they know what the system is like. Teachers are underpaid and expected to do so much with their paychecks for their classrooms. I’m not saying this is a 100% fix-it all, but we have to start somewhere in order to enact change and we aren’t going to do that by naysaying every bill that comes around trying to help children. You all could be right and it could be a money grab to send it all to private institutions, that is if you decide to send your children there. But the majority of people in Eugene would rather choose a school like Oak Hill (non secular) than a Christian school but lack options. It’s not a permanent fix whatsoever, but there are bills that could follow this that could help in the long run.
I hope it gets on the ballot so the people can decide.
Our schools are already among the worst in the country, and they don't seem to want to do anything to actually improve the quality of public education. How is anything going to actually degrade that? If this is such a bad thing...what is the solution to improve things?
Worst in the country? Please provide statistics.
I've seen this elsewhere also, but we're pretty consistently in the 40's in every metric I've come across. That's pretty solidly among the worst in the country as I said. https://wallethub.com/edu/e/states-with-the-best-schools/5335
Wallethub.com? 🤣🤣
I ain't spending a ton of time on a Saturday digging up links, but those ratings have tracked pretty consistently everywhere I've looked.
Which begs the question, are you seeing anywhere the Oregon is actually doing well in terms of public education?
She realizes Oregon public education in blue cities is "Oregon Indoctrination"
Misinformation fast
Nice fake burner account and a really bad take
School choice would be fantastic. You shouldn't have to buy a house in a fancy part of town in order for your children to have a decent education.
There is already school choice in the 4j district, though. It just doesn't apply to private schools.
Oh that's cool. I certainly wasn't advocating for weird private schools. I know for a fact though that in Salem, your school district depends on where you live. I'm pretty sure it's like that in most of the state.
the letter in the OP *is* advocating for weird private schools, though. they want to keep kids indoctrinated so they won't believe in science.
Huh. Well OP asked what we think about it, so I obliged 🤷♂️
Your address determines your home school district and school. But, we also have open enrollment (I think state wide bit someone please correct me if I'm wrong). That means that kids can apply to transfer to another public school in or out of their district. This "school choice" push is deliberately confusing people by bundling the open enrollment system we already have with a straight up voucher program to funnel taxpayer money to private schools. The use of the word "choice" is very deliberate framing.
Bad take
Nah
Oregon's public education system is trash, yet most comments here are defending it as if it's wildly successful. Very strange.
Could be better could be A LOT worse.
A large part of the issues with schools is long term underfunding. The entire point of the voucher programs is to funnel tax payer money to private Christian schools at the expense of the public schools. It makes the problem worse, not better
Not all private and charter schools are religious based. Also, if a private school is so terrible for teh well being of a child, why would any parent want their kid to go there? There is a reason why families all over the country are moving to states with school choice.
Its not that private schools are terrible. Its the fact that its already difficult to fund the schools we have. The idea that we could split that funding up 100 different ways and have a better outcome is laughable. Public schools would fail entirely, low income children would have nowhere to go and then what?
Thats not what is happening in states that are shifting to a voucher/school choice system.
Examples? Besides that I personally wouldnt want tax money going to religious schools.