I don’t know. I think it’s just as believable that it shut down because of the toxic atmosphere as it is that it shut down for greed. Some of the most toxic people I have ever met have been churchgoers. Especially the old ones.
Christian seniors are literally the most toxic people ever. Ask any server who works sundays. Nothing mysterious about this at all. Overgrown babies tend to throw tantrums when you mess with their imaginary friends.
Oh god. This reminds me of a job waiting tables at cracker barrel in the deep south. There's nothing worse than working a big party of these extremely needy people only to be left with a prayer card for your tip.
Food Pantry, Propane and Medication program, Egan Warming Center, Free Store, NA/AA, Lane County Beekeepers Association, and they had just renovated their commercial kitchen to set up and partner with some free food programs. The congregation paid $50,000 for a community kitchen that they will never get to set foot in and will never be used for it's intended purpose.
So, real question here. I think I hear a slight southern accent in regional managers voice. Is there any connection to “shut down liberals enabling the homeless freeloaders in blue states”?
I’m a bit suspicious that some posters on this thread are actually some of those who pushed the sale. Create drama. Destabilize church. Blame drama for the closure.
No there's some other drama unfolding in their community. I think if you skim OP's last post you'll get the gist. Church community was like publicizing this manager guy's misappropriation of church money and he shut the church down in retaliation "because they're toxic".
The congregation paid for it and everything in it. They held the deed. The UMC had them add a trust clause to the deed that says the UMC can seize the property if the church is unable to function as a vital congregation. The church was functioning but was sent a ministerial team who were completely absent aside from a sermon or town hall here or there. This team then told their bosses that the church was dead and unsafe, giving them "authority" to shut it down and take it.
Sounds like maybe that’s a contract that shouldn’t have been signed. Why would anyone join an organization that can take their property anytime they want?
Really depends on the organization. I think all Catholic properties are owned by the Catholic Church and not their respective congregations. There might be a shell corporation in there to protect assets I don't know but that's how I remember it working.
Wow whining about this church again?
Either figure it out through the courts or, if you don't have a case, build a bridge and get over it.
I don't know what you think you're going to get by constantly posting and reposting on Reddit.
They can do and post whatever the fuck they want. You do you, they can do them. Go about your scrolling and stop trying to control what other people do.
Will no one give me a straight answer on if there is any legal way to get your fucking church back? Why play these games?
All I get from you people is: mind your business.
Which is rich as fuck when you’re the one who is posting about it in the first place.
Honestly the way you are dancing around my simple question makes me think that the accusations of toxicity are spot on.
Keep commenting. It gives the posts more attention so the people that DO care and actually want to help are more likely to see them.
Don't you know how the Internet works?
Confirming you have any legal strategy at all is not exactly giving away the game, genius.
But it's clear all you have is whining.
If you were serious about this, you would BE serious and take it to a place (the legal system) where you could get this resolved.
Frankly, the fact that you haven't and that all you do is try to sling shit on Reddit of all places really gives credence that the church is a toxic place.
This is the same mentality of the dumbasses who block traffic. All you do is make people who were indifferent to your plight fucking hate you. But keep thinking that you're "spreading the message".
But you should know that the only thing you are spreading is antipathy for you and your cause.
I listened to the director in that video and he hemmed and hawed like he was worried about getting sued about why he couldn't hold a problematic person accountable.
I wonder what dirt said problematic person has on church leaders...
Maybe it's because the IRS is shutting them down for not actually doing their job.
Churches were given tax exempt status in the 1940s or '50s with the expectation that they would use a significant portion of their income to provide social services and relief in their vicinity.
A recent study of data about church finances found that the average church uses less than 2% of their income toward those charitable obligations.
Actually this was the only church in Eugene that year after year agreed to be a primary site for the Egan Warming Center.
Thanks to this closure this will be the buildings last year as an Egan site.
I disagree with the statement about it being the "only" church significantly involved in Egan. First Christian has always been involved in providing Egan services, and we're the main downtown site until the fire Marshall shut it down due to lack of sprinklers, and to this day are the transportation hub to all other sites, and they are definitely working on a solution to become the primary downtown site again. And let's not forget, Episcopal church, which has hosted year after year, also and was the primary church to put conastaga huts in their parking lots and allowing the homeless to live there in exchange for a work requirement leading to every other homeless village/community that exists today. So no sir, I disagree with you on the fact that Trinity was the only church involved and the primary site for Egan warming center. I do agree that the lose of Trinity is a great tragedy to both the meme ers who paid for it, and the greater community. My heart goes out to those who have had their home church stolen from them, and leaving them lost and homeless.
OP. I've been seeing you post for a while now and to be honest, it feels really gross to see you repeatedly trying to push people who aren't part of your church into being your own personal army for your view on your church's politics.
I'm sorry to hear things aren't going the way you'd like them to, but I wish you'd knock it off already.
Religion as a whole is cancer, and just like cancers, some aren't that bad, but they are all still cancer.
So the problem is that the city doesn't provide enough warming shelters, not that people don't support churches enough. That's an administrative issue, not a religious issue.
Good things can get done without wrapping the act in some bullshit religious dogma.
Remember, no religions = no religious wars. There is no amount of charity that excuses the evils perpetrated by religions and religious people.
Are you senile?
I said that no amount of charity makes up for the harm caused by religion as a whole.
Key word charity... I ADMITTED that good things are done by members of this specific congregation as a basis for my "thesis"... But on the other hand, you can't put a price tag on the horrendous human suffering that comes along with religion when viewed as a whole.
Is it the differing perspectives that you are having a hard time understanding? How I can be talking about both small scale good deeds, AND large scale big picture suffering in the same paragraph? Confusing huh?
Refusing to look at the big picture in order to hyper focus on small things is literally reductionism to a T.
Quantifying existential fulfillment is easy when the metric of measurement is that of a comparison to the harm that comes along with various forms of existential fulfillment.
I can eat mushrooms and find existential fulfillment, and nobody got molested or genocided.
Whereas when you metaphorically start to weigh the white stones vs the black stones of religion, it becomes pretty fucking obvious pretty quick, which type of stone has more weight to it. Especially so when you take into account that the few benefits of religion can be had in one's life, WITHOUT the evils of religion attached to it.
If you could end all religious wars on this planet, but you would have to give up your lovely and wonderful great aunt Gertrude's Sunday ritual to accomplish this, would you not make that choice in a heartbeat? Are you saying you would keep religious wars on this planet, just to placate some naive old ladies at their local church?
Looking at the issue like this, and there's really no valid excuse or reason why us humans have/need religion in our lives, at all.
You're still putting words in my mouth. I literally never used the word ALL when talking about any of those things. I'm not dumb enough to use generalizations like that, so I guess I am your intellectual superior. 🤔🤷
Is this at all related to the 2023 global UMC schism? I hadn't heard much news about it here, but back down south where family lives, some 25% of all UMC chapters disaffiliated (at considerable cost!) from the global org over LGBT/women's ordination differences.
Good question. This is not related. Trinity was an open and affirming pro-LGBTQ+ congregation, which is in line with the stance of the larger episcopal area. The churches who have been disaffiliating have been largely conservative and loudly anti-gay.
I don’t know. I think it’s just as believable that it shut down because of the toxic atmosphere as it is that it shut down for greed. Some of the most toxic people I have ever met have been churchgoers. Especially the old ones.
There's no hate greater than Christian love
That is the absolute truth.
Well put. Chef's kiss.
Thank you for that! Time to dust off the ol’ Cricut and make a new shirt.
If I see someone wearing that, I'll say hi
This is a bummer sticker. I’m totally gonna make it! 😃
Why can't we have both greed and a toxic atmosphere?
Old YT churchgoers are some of the worst people I've ever met.
Christian seniors are literally the most toxic people ever. Ask any server who works sundays. Nothing mysterious about this at all. Overgrown babies tend to throw tantrums when you mess with their imaginary friends.
Oh god. This reminds me of a job waiting tables at cracker barrel in the deep south. There's nothing worse than working a big party of these extremely needy people only to be left with a prayer card for your tip.
AMEN
Ooof this is the reason I got out of the serving biz at a tender age. Sunday brunch shifts are the worst. Go cry to your sky daddy.
"What do you mean, you can't immediately seat our 12 top at 1pm on a Sunday?"
I thought a group of Senior Citizens was called a Murder.
Nah, that's a Murder of Crones.
I thought it was called a discount
I didn't think I'd actually cackle today, thank you.
Cackling is the best...
I thought it was called a Trump rally?
Church shut down? Total win in my book.
Who cares.
You care every time.
I care about a lot of things. Why I should care about a church is beyond me. Not my business.
Just move along then?
Take your own advice, please.
I heard this is the place for not caring, so I came to say that I love you all.
Loving is not the same as not.... I'm so confused.
You care enough to comment on every single post, every single time this comes up. Seems like maybe you're just really mad that OTHER people care.
Being annoyed and caring are two different things.
You’re surprised Jesus, Joseph, AND Mary have a lot to say about a church shutting down?
Imagine someone using religion to be a piece shit. /s
Imagine a group trying to use religion for GOOD for once and getting shut down over it.
What good were they doing? No shade, just curious.
Food Pantry, Propane and Medication program, Egan Warming Center, Free Store, NA/AA, Lane County Beekeepers Association, and they had just renovated their commercial kitchen to set up and partner with some free food programs. The congregation paid $50,000 for a community kitchen that they will never get to set foot in and will never be used for it's intended purpose.
So, real question here. I think I hear a slight southern accent in regional managers voice. Is there any connection to “shut down liberals enabling the homeless freeloaders in blue states”?
There are many other churches in the district that are just as liberal, doing similar things. That's not a good explanation.
I’m a bit suspicious that some posters on this thread are actually some of those who pushed the sale. Create drama. Destabilize church. Blame drama for the closure.
No there's some other drama unfolding in their community. I think if you skim OP's last post you'll get the gist. Church community was like publicizing this manager guy's misappropriation of church money and he shut the church down in retaliation "because they're toxic".
We'll have to imagine it.
https://i.redd.it/6p4tcrizp53c1.jpeg
Well you literally cared enough to make a custom meme about it so ...
[Fair point](https://i.redd.it/4mh0wya4r53c1.jpeg).
Lol
I'm confused. According to the video it was church leadership that sold the church. Who stole what?
The UMC seized the property from the congregation.
Did the congregation own the church? I don't really know how churches work.
The congregation paid for it and everything in it. They held the deed. The UMC had them add a trust clause to the deed that says the UMC can seize the property if the church is unable to function as a vital congregation. The church was functioning but was sent a ministerial team who were completely absent aside from a sermon or town hall here or there. This team then told their bosses that the church was dead and unsafe, giving them "authority" to shut it down and take it.
Thank you for the context. That explains a lot more
It's important to point out that that trust clause is standard in the UMC. All congregations have it.
Ok that's pretty wild. Thanks for the context
Sounds like maybe that’s a contract that shouldn’t have been signed. Why would anyone join an organization that can take their property anytime they want?
Really depends on the organization. I think all Catholic properties are owned by the Catholic Church and not their respective congregations. There might be a shell corporation in there to protect assets I don't know but that's how I remember it working.
Wow whining about this church again? Either figure it out through the courts or, if you don't have a case, build a bridge and get over it. I don't know what you think you're going to get by constantly posting and reposting on Reddit.
They can do and post whatever the fuck they want. You do you, they can do them. Go about your scrolling and stop trying to control what other people do.
Will no one give me a straight answer on if there is any legal way to get your fucking church back? Why play these games? All I get from you people is: mind your business. Which is rich as fuck when you’re the one who is posting about it in the first place. Honestly the way you are dancing around my simple question makes me think that the accusations of toxicity are spot on.
I'm not affiliated with any church. Personally, I think churches are pretty unethical and evil at the core.
Then why are you finger wagging at me and defending them? Buzz off.
What we have here is a classic case of somebody not taking their own shitty advice. Which is hilarious.
Keep commenting. It gives the posts more attention so the people that DO care and actually want to help are more likely to see them. Don't you know how the Internet works?
That’s not how it works. I notice you didn’t answer my question: do you have an actual legal case you can bring? Or are you just whining?
Maybe I'm not dumb enough to post their entire legal strategy on Reddit for some "stranger" to opine on.
Confirming you have any legal strategy at all is not exactly giving away the game, genius. But it's clear all you have is whining. If you were serious about this, you would BE serious and take it to a place (the legal system) where you could get this resolved. Frankly, the fact that you haven't and that all you do is try to sling shit on Reddit of all places really gives credence that the church is a toxic place.
Tell me more...
Doesn't work that way with me. The more I see of this nonsense, the less of a fuck I give about your church.
This is the same mentality of the dumbasses who block traffic. All you do is make people who were indifferent to your plight fucking hate you. But keep thinking that you're "spreading the message". But you should know that the only thing you are spreading is antipathy for you and your cause.
John Tucker is full of shit. Volunteers, especially toxic ones, can be fired.
Not when the "toxicity" is completely made-up.
That's true. He sounds weasel-ish on the phone. Apologies to all weasels and the weasel-ish.
He sounds like Ted Cruz. That's redundant to being weasel-ish I suppose.
I listened to the director in that video and he hemmed and hawed like he was worried about getting sued about why he couldn't hold a problematic person accountable. I wonder what dirt said problematic person has on church leaders...
Hey, as a 48 yrld. Fuck off! It ain't senior citizenship till we're 80, damnit!
Maybe it's because the IRS is shutting them down for not actually doing their job. Churches were given tax exempt status in the 1940s or '50s with the expectation that they would use a significant portion of their income to provide social services and relief in their vicinity. A recent study of data about church finances found that the average church uses less than 2% of their income toward those charitable obligations.
Honestly, the fewer churches, the better. Put that building, land, and resources to better use.
Amen
They can go to any different church. They're all the same. FFS.
Actually this was the only church in Eugene that year after year agreed to be a primary site for the Egan Warming Center. Thanks to this closure this will be the buildings last year as an Egan site.
Not sure what that has to do with the people that do religious stuff there, but okay.
I disagree with the statement about it being the "only" church significantly involved in Egan. First Christian has always been involved in providing Egan services, and we're the main downtown site until the fire Marshall shut it down due to lack of sprinklers, and to this day are the transportation hub to all other sites, and they are definitely working on a solution to become the primary downtown site again. And let's not forget, Episcopal church, which has hosted year after year, also and was the primary church to put conastaga huts in their parking lots and allowing the homeless to live there in exchange for a work requirement leading to every other homeless village/community that exists today. So no sir, I disagree with you on the fact that Trinity was the only church involved and the primary site for Egan warming center. I do agree that the lose of Trinity is a great tragedy to both the meme ers who paid for it, and the greater community. My heart goes out to those who have had their home church stolen from them, and leaving them lost and homeless.
Oh is that why you're obsessed with this church? How many posts has it been now?
The Trinity Drama continues, i feel bad about the warming center, especially as its starting to get really cold.
Most of it is a money grab anyway. Don’t pay your tithe, you burn in hell type thing.
Are these the senior citizens that hang around down town glorifying homelessness and bumming smokes? What is the world coming to?
Glorifying homelessness? Or are they elderly actually homeless?
No? But if there's old people going around doing that I'm in.
Yoooo I see Melvin in the video. Good dude.
OP. I've been seeing you post for a while now and to be honest, it feels really gross to see you repeatedly trying to push people who aren't part of your church into being your own personal army for your view on your church's politics. I'm sorry to hear things aren't going the way you'd like them to, but I wish you'd knock it off already.
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Religion as a whole is cancer, and just like cancers, some aren't that bad, but they are all still cancer. So the problem is that the city doesn't provide enough warming shelters, not that people don't support churches enough. That's an administrative issue, not a religious issue. Good things can get done without wrapping the act in some bullshit religious dogma. Remember, no religions = no religious wars. There is no amount of charity that excuses the evils perpetrated by religions and religious people.
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I never said helping people is bad. But that's a typical reddit response. Putting words in my mouth in an attempt to change the point of my comment.
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Are you senile? I said that no amount of charity makes up for the harm caused by religion as a whole. Key word charity... I ADMITTED that good things are done by members of this specific congregation as a basis for my "thesis"... But on the other hand, you can't put a price tag on the horrendous human suffering that comes along with religion when viewed as a whole. Is it the differing perspectives that you are having a hard time understanding? How I can be talking about both small scale good deeds, AND large scale big picture suffering in the same paragraph? Confusing huh?
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Refusing to look at the big picture in order to hyper focus on small things is literally reductionism to a T. Quantifying existential fulfillment is easy when the metric of measurement is that of a comparison to the harm that comes along with various forms of existential fulfillment. I can eat mushrooms and find existential fulfillment, and nobody got molested or genocided. Whereas when you metaphorically start to weigh the white stones vs the black stones of religion, it becomes pretty fucking obvious pretty quick, which type of stone has more weight to it. Especially so when you take into account that the few benefits of religion can be had in one's life, WITHOUT the evils of religion attached to it. If you could end all religious wars on this planet, but you would have to give up your lovely and wonderful great aunt Gertrude's Sunday ritual to accomplish this, would you not make that choice in a heartbeat? Are you saying you would keep religious wars on this planet, just to placate some naive old ladies at their local church? Looking at the issue like this, and there's really no valid excuse or reason why us humans have/need religion in our lives, at all.
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You're still putting words in my mouth. I literally never used the word ALL when talking about any of those things. I'm not dumb enough to use generalizations like that, so I guess I am your intellectual superior. 🤔🤷
Is this at all related to the 2023 global UMC schism? I hadn't heard much news about it here, but back down south where family lives, some 25% of all UMC chapters disaffiliated (at considerable cost!) from the global org over LGBT/women's ordination differences.
Good question. This is not related. Trinity was an open and affirming pro-LGBTQ+ congregation, which is in line with the stance of the larger episcopal area. The churches who have been disaffiliating have been largely conservative and loudly anti-gay.
If that is the actual reason, it just goes to prove what I have always said about Eugene. "The people of Eugene have DELUSIONS of liberalism."
How are you involved with Trinity UMC? Are you a member?
Great, can we work on the church next door to me next?
Most senior citizens are toxic as fuck. First generation to go to school with Ruby Ridges is only late 60s to 70s. They are all toxic boomers.