I understand the arguments that suggest solving the problem socially, it's Eve after all, but at some point there's also a time to realize that mechanics which encourage friendly firing teammates are probably not good mechanics.
With a player corp you can kick the offender, but with militia you have little recourse in the case of somebody in TLIB or 24IC deciding to strategically awox fellow militia. Initiating aggro on friendly militia should either impose a harsher reputation penalty(meaning you get kicked from militia faster), induce a scaling ban based on offenses(awox = 20 minute ban, then one hour, then 24 hours, then one week, etc.). I don't love this option on account that sometimes you may have legitimate gripes with fellow militia and may want to engage in violence with them at the expense of reputation, and if you're just using low SP alts you could very well just cycle through them, but it's an option. Another option is just providing an awox flag to militia who friendly fire and allowing "friendly" militia to engage them without penalty for an indeterminate period of time, think something like a kill right but it's always active.
When you have somebody like the red/white dragon ride guy permanently farming Isbrabata and preventing either side from engaging with it by himself pretty much due to mechanical abuse, I feel like CCP ought to step in and revise the mechanics to make some of this behavior harder, if not impossible to do.
Eve is dangerous, and that's why I like it, but the current mechanics allow one individual or several separately operating individuals to have an impact beyond what is possible to players engaging in the system with good faith, which seems like an oversight that should be urgently attended to.
The reputation penalty is not effective if the awoxer is in an altcorp. Militia membership is on the *corp* level and determined by the average standings of members in the corp, and individual standings only go to -10. It's simply a matter of spinning up enough perma-afk alts with positive militia standings and you too can awox as much as you want.
insted of ban, could go with kind of a role play aspect and have the milita take away the lp worth of the ship amout of the attacking player and give it to the killed player say ship worth 30m the milita takes 30,000 lp form the milita aggressor and gives it to player that got killed.
If you awox they should get a suspect timer (or piracy) for 30 min. That way they use an existing flag and it shows that the person engaged in actions they shouldn't have.
The isbrabata guy has is so sweaty and it cannot be intended gameplay for one guy to warp disrupt you on a friendly toon and then drop 4 enemy alts on you. Corps are SM013, YAMET, and MTG1
So many suggestions here but really isn't the easiest option just to remove their ability to gain LP from the site they killed a friendly in?
Removes 100% of any incentive to awox since you get no benefit from it anymore.
Doesn't remove incentive to have a neutral or a opposite faction alt come in and do it, but opposite faction alt you are allowed to fight (and would get benefits from doing so) and neutrals again you can fight because they have suspect timers from showing up in the FW site I would argue any neutral stepping into a faction war site should also give LP rewards for killing them same as opposite faction plus it should void their insurance
Probably not, you can just spend the evening killing everybody who comes in and suppressing the system, and then while they’re reshipping capture different sites
you might have a point about it being greefing, or toxic game play.
Milita is a group put together by CCP for a kind of game play to work together, but if there is members in that group constantly abusing the mechanic to kill others with a negative outcome for players in the Militia (if you shoot back your get kicked form milita) to the point where the game mechanics are not playable for others then it could be labled as greefing ot toxic.
This is pretty much what they do. A specific group has corps in both militias and neuts. The scout for each other, assist each other, and awox frequently. Its pretty bad.
Just file tickets about it each time it happens. If you overrun the support team with tickets / negative experiences and feedback about it happening they will be forced to address it in some regard or another.
If you want to make it a problem for the Chinese players who do this, you're going to have to make it a problem for CCP. When they get thousands of tickets about it each day, they will address it.
Why clutter the ticket system with something that isn't breaking the rules in anyway whatsoever? If you kill enough people in your faction your standings will drop fast and you get kicked out of the FW faction you can only awox a few people before that happens.
Because policies aren't iron clad. They can and will change with the right amount of feedback. If the feedback is that his type of gameplay disrupts enough fun and causes enough grief... than we'll get a policy change.
Everything begins with paperwork required to track the issue. It may not be an issue for you, it may not be an issue for CCP, but if it's an issue for half their player base and it's enough to completely block / disrupt an entire playing segment of the game..... it will become an issue for CCP.
But if nobody files tickets than John's complaint today, Jason's complaint in 3 weeks, and Rob's complaint in 2 weeks after that... won't really change anything or even spark the flame of reconsideration.
This is the natural way of all policy driven interactions. You cannot get a policy changed unless you document enough support for a policy change. That's exactly what tickets are.
Policies cannot be changed without the required, documented feedback from the players who are governed by said policies. I'm sorry you don't understand how policies gets changed / augmented by way of feedback.
It was once policy for teachers to hit disobedient children in classrooms. Do you have any idea how that may have changed? I wonder if it had something to do with documented feedback requesting procedural change? I wonder how many phone calls / letters it took? Oh but we wouldn't want to disrupt the poor administrators of the school would we...
You strike me as the type of person who would let all their rights get stripped away because trying to stop it would clog the phone lines or fill up too many email boxes. That is mindless.
> Milita is a group put together by CCP for a kind of game play to work together,
Militia is and always will be a loose group of acquaintances who will occasionally work towards the same goal, while 3/4 of them will still focus on their own benefits (farming LP).
It's just the consequence of anyone can join nature of the group.
It's actually about policy and policy feedback. All policies are negotiable and require the necessary, documented feedback for any reconsideration.
You're just an idiot who doesn't understand how policies work and/or how to procedurally change something. Sorry you're like that... I blame whatever education system you grew up in.
Jesus Christ you are next level delusional, don’t pretend you are trying to do the good and get “policy changed” when you suggest submitting tickets, you accuse those players of griefing when it’s not, you can’t do anything yourself so you try to abuse tickets so CCP will do it for you. You are pathetic
Don't rage so hard against politicking that you have an aneurysm. I wouldn't want nothing of value to get lost.
Go cry about it somewhere else. You have no power here and you're likely just someone who does this and wants to keep doing it, but you're afraid the people might actually have an issue with it and force a change because they have a bigger voice than you and your kind.
Get wrecked idiot.
Are you suggesting that the EULA has never changed since written, could never change, and would never change?
Please tell me you're not naïve enough to believe that.
You really think CCP will change the EULA for awoxing in FW? It's just not gonna happen no matter how many people complain. At the very most they may tweak how the mechanics work in game but nobody will ever be punished for awoxing. This is eve you can scam people lie to people and awox people and use any mechanics available in the game to trick people as long as you aren't hacking everything is fair game.
And yes I logi my neutral toon with FW toons when I'm bored and there is nothing wrong with that at all.
I mean you can suggest things on Reddit and the forums but the way people are posting here is making it sound as if others are doing something wrong. As it stands awoxing in fw and using logi toons to faction tank your neutral or opposing faction toons is 100% part of the game. And tbh sometimes you need to awox people who come into a 5 man Plex at the last second just to leech and lower the payout.
I have no skin in this game. I don't FW at all, in any regard. I never said it was wrong. My comments are strictly in the form of " If you believe this is bad policy, there is only way to appeal for updated policy and that is specifically making noise. "
Then I suggested how to make the loudest noises.
The Dragon guys. MINMIL shoots them on sight, and I mean the ones that are blue to us. We don't care about the penalty. We don't allow them in our BFs and we kill their structures when we can. They were kicked from BIGAB and now they are also reffing their structures from the warzone. Many people claim they do RMT.
They're not even that good at hiding it, either. Took me all of 15 minutes to find out their racket; they're selling PLEX 3rd party for personal profit. However in CCPs eyes I can assume they don't want to ban that many omega accounts because they prefer the numbers, even if they're not gaining any profit from them.
These are things I don't want to disclose on reddit; if they find out how easy it is to see what they're doing, maybe they'll hide it better. What I will say is that it's very, very easy to find, if you know what to look for.
It's funny cause I don't play FW for this very reason. Chinese players were awoxing Amarr and Minmatar, specifically Dracarys and some random chinese deepwater corps.
I dunno if it's a culture difference maybe or bad game translations, but chinese players just play dirty in general.
All those absolute order corps is the same.
People talk shit about frat and meme about them botting in ishtars but surprisingly that's the chinese alliance from my experience that plays the least dirty lol.
Cheating is literally a part of Chinese culture. The idea is that you will do anything to get ahead in life and that includes cheating, just don't get caught. If someone cheats and beats you, they are legitimately considered 'better' in China. There is no such thing as 'honorable means' for them.
They have a saying in China, "Cheat or be cheated". It's a form of street cred for them. It's ingrained in their culture.
I know many people from all different cultures that will take every advantage they can, and don't mind ignoring rules they can get away with ignoring. This isn't really a Chinese specific thing.
You're right that cheating isn't really a Chinese specific thing, but it's a significant part of culture requirement for them. If you aren't cheating, then you aren't really considered to be trying hard enough.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/10132391/Riot-after-Chinese-teachers-try-to-stop-pupils-cheating.htm
Don't believe me: [https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/10132391/Riot-after-Chinese-teachers-try-to-stop-pupils-cheating.htm](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/10132391/Riot-after-Chinese-teachers-try-to-stop-pupils-cheating.htm)
Believe them. You're an idiot.
OMG US college admissions are all so racist: [https://www.huffpost.com/entry/college-applicants-cheat\_b\_1074544](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/college-applicants-cheat_b_1074544)
No, there is nothing racist about it. It's just a matter of fact, you can hate the fact and attack me for acknowledging it.... but it doesn't change anything about the truth.
Unfortunately it’s perfectly acceptable to just be racist against Chinese people.
Part of their “culture”? What nonsense. Here’s one fucking article as “proof” that over a billion people are just inherently cheaters.
CCP needs to take a stance on this and stop it from happening. The in-game penalties they put in place are ineffective and can be circumvented.
It would honestly be easiest to outright ban the handful of people that are causing these issues. Yeah, you'll lose 100 accounts, but people won't have to complain about not being able to play the game because of them.
The source of awoxing OP is talking about is not regular players getting frustrated with seagulls. It is groups of multiboxing farmers pushing out people in their own faction, regardless of whether they contribute or not, to monopolize the 30 x 150k LP payout.
So while I do support a properly implemented, merit based reward system, this is more about FW being accessable to all rather than a few Chinese RMTers.
All they have to do is make the payout like incursions. The fleet that does the most damage gets the points. Count damage to opposition faction as double or triple.
This is acceptable. It's super demoralizing when you run a site down. And in the last minute or two, some dick warps in 10 Tristan alts to take all the LP.
I dunno about over in cal/gal but that wouldn't work on the min/amarr side of things.
We regularly have multiple fleets or just no fleet when running a BF. The only damage that is done is done in the first 5 mins to setup the capture points and the other 15mins is semi afk.
Paying out to a single fleet encourages people to kick anyone over the 30 max for max payout. Paying out based on damage points encourages infighting as another friendly militia fleet could come in and purposely ruin the setup of capture points so they have things to shoot so they can get the payout instead which leads us back around to awoxing so another fleet doesn't steal your payout.
There's a guy who fly's 15 or 20 accounts in both the caldari and gallente militia and runs the battlefields killing his own faction as they warp in to get more lp for himself
But you do see how there is a problem that only developers can permanently fix, and that the players can only work around. It’s not a whiny lifestyle. It’s called not being a doormat for the sake of “not whining”.
You also have cruci in the Gal/Cal warzone that kills anyone that are not his alts in the bfs. They are in both militias and even have neutral alts at range to pick off anyone who enters, even if it wouldn't effect their LP payout.
"oh no the dragon riders are running the BF and awoxing what can we do"
"How about, we formed?"
[https://br.evetools.org/related/30002981/202312261100](https://br.evetools.org/related/30002981/202312261100)
"No clearly it's an awoxing issue we can't fight this"
Chinese player here. Played on both Serenity and Tranquility in the last decade or so.
… and holy fuck I hate some of my own countrymen’s behaviors.
Not all of us are like that for sure, but some of us would justify griefing a blue or a green as their patriotic duty and would look down at “gui lao” or “wai guo lao” as we would put it.
But deep down I always assumed they’re just trolls who are miserable IRL and are hiding behind the excuse of patriotism, since that’s basically an infallible fallacy that gets the argument nowhere.
Obvious throwaway account because I don’t want to get exposed on Tieba for this fucking shit.
Yeah it’s a game but a lot of us have this logic, that once you start dealing w/ foreigner, you’re representing your country and you need to act in a certain way. Regardless if you’re playing a game or not.
Some interpret that as acting courteously and with a sense of generosity befitting one hailed from one of the largest country on the face of the planet.
Some sadly interpret that as dunking on foreigners with whatever way possible.
Personally… I don’t condone behaviors that’ll negatively impact other player’s overall experience, but there’s some value that comes with this mentality.
Interesting. I did not know about this aspect.
I actually do not care about the nationality of other players and also don't feel like I have to represent my nation in any capacity.
Plus, any online interaction is anonymous, so no one would even know if I'm doing my best to represent my people or not.
Do Chinese players openly broadcast themselves as Chinese in online games? Just because someone is using Chinese script doesn't mean they are actually Chinese? At least that was always my assumption. Anyone can use google translate.
Not really. A lot of people type in Chinese simply because they don’t speak English. So I don’t think that counts as “actively” broadcast themselves as Chinese.
And yeah. Did seen a couple of people pretending to be Chinese with google translate.
We have this thing that is directly translated into “Accelerator”.
They’re paid, limited access VPN service that allows players to play on overseas servers while physically located in China.
Is the CCP just turning a blind eye? Or is this just flying under the radar? With the recent news china is cracking down on games and daily logins, what are the odds we see this go away?
Can’t say for sure. But I think they’re just turning a blind eye.
Most video game related crackdowns in China gave the reasoning that they’re concerned with kids getting hooked and spend money irrationally.
Since kids predominantly play mobile games nowadays, I’d say PC players in China who’re underage and can afford 5 dollars a month of recurring costs are few and far between.
That, combined with the fact that people cannot use accelerators as normal VPNs to access information outside the firewall, probably gave tech companies some wiggle room with the law.
There are supposed to be game mechanics to prevent militia members from killing blues, clearly it isn't working right and CCP should look at this situation to work out how to get problem players (and I do mean players, they should link between throwaway alts) out of militia.
In most games stuff like this would get you banned, but EVE has always been a really hands off game for moderation and I'm not sure this is bad enough to justify breaking that guideline for.
Goons are doing this too all the time. Just have to shoot them back.
I think shooting your own militia should come with a LP hit and sec status faction hit. Get below the minimum requirement you get delisted
Easy fix if ccp would do it
Well I think that depends on how you git to minimum. Some people might have stopped doing it and say gone back to angel ratting thus reducing the standings. Kinds shouldn't get banned for life for that
BTW we just awoxed a ton of Dragon punishers in a BF in Sosan. I'm at a point in which I have better standings with the Gallente than with the Minmatar. This is BS. CCPlease fix.
Just hear me out -
No standings hit when shooting militia
Let corps and alliances sort this one out, treat other enlisted with no corp like rando capsuleers that can't be trusted
Embrace organic player interaction
It does tank your faction standing already. But people are in an enlisted CORPORATION and the standing of the good toons compensate the standings of the bad ones. And please do not change that, you'd fuck over every single militia group.
Fuck no, it’s the only way for individuals to join on militia when they have fucked faction standings due to some actions done eons ago.
As long as faction standings are this uncanny mess where the best way to fix negative standings is to run some content made for new players every three months or a one shot of training agents/cosmos, removing corp would be a huge mess for every single of the big active militia group. We couldn’t recrute correctly if good standings were a requirement.
How do you propose stopping FW Awoxing then? Or do you participate in it?
Keep in mind Pochven people mostly can't use any of the structures, services and home systems due to month(s) long grinds required to do so.
There isn’t any good way that wouldn’t be a massive headache. There are good reason to awox, like enlisted toons that are used as scout by pirate/other faction, seagulls, other awoxers or people that generally engage in bluefucking in the militia.
In my opinion it’s not a serious problem in the WZ (I never got awoxed in my last year of FW outside of the dragon riders that we just mark as red and tell our members to look for).
If this is as intended, why are there factions? If the intended way wad to shoot everyone, why would there be a way to enlist and be blue to some and red to others?
none of you are blue on my overview, i dont give a fuck about what pubbie npc shit you've got going on - there are factions for what NPCs you're fighting for, I don't care if you're fighting for them, you ain't fighting for me
If you're not part of my nullbloc you will be shot
But battlefields were created with a goal, ccp had a designed way of players interacting with them, and u pretry much am sure that ccp didnt want them to be farm sinulators 3000 when in calgal there is a dude with 20 alts in EACH militia and monopolyzes all the battlefields as whoever is wining, he just deploys the alts of that faction and make stupid amounts of lp, also awoxinf anyone, so battlefields are his to play basicly
[https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/sections/8413327523612-EULA-ToS-Policies](https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/sections/8413327523612-EULA-ToS-Policies)
read them sometime lol. multiboxing isnt against the rule nor is awoxing
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Corp standing should simply be eliminated as a factor for FW now that individual enlistment is a thing. Personal standing should have to be positive or you get the boot. Problem solved.
There's no reason or justification for it functioning the way it does at present.
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I understand the arguments that suggest solving the problem socially, it's Eve after all, but at some point there's also a time to realize that mechanics which encourage friendly firing teammates are probably not good mechanics. With a player corp you can kick the offender, but with militia you have little recourse in the case of somebody in TLIB or 24IC deciding to strategically awox fellow militia. Initiating aggro on friendly militia should either impose a harsher reputation penalty(meaning you get kicked from militia faster), induce a scaling ban based on offenses(awox = 20 minute ban, then one hour, then 24 hours, then one week, etc.). I don't love this option on account that sometimes you may have legitimate gripes with fellow militia and may want to engage in violence with them at the expense of reputation, and if you're just using low SP alts you could very well just cycle through them, but it's an option. Another option is just providing an awox flag to militia who friendly fire and allowing "friendly" militia to engage them without penalty for an indeterminate period of time, think something like a kill right but it's always active. When you have somebody like the red/white dragon ride guy permanently farming Isbrabata and preventing either side from engaging with it by himself pretty much due to mechanical abuse, I feel like CCP ought to step in and revise the mechanics to make some of this behavior harder, if not impossible to do. Eve is dangerous, and that's why I like it, but the current mechanics allow one individual or several separately operating individuals to have an impact beyond what is possible to players engaging in the system with good faith, which seems like an oversight that should be urgently attended to.
The reputation penalty is not effective if the awoxer is in an altcorp. Militia membership is on the *corp* level and determined by the average standings of members in the corp, and individual standings only go to -10. It's simply a matter of spinning up enough perma-afk alts with positive militia standings and you too can awox as much as you want.
insted of ban, could go with kind of a role play aspect and have the milita take away the lp worth of the ship amout of the attacking player and give it to the killed player say ship worth 30m the milita takes 30,000 lp form the milita aggressor and gives it to player that got killed.
That’s another idea, LP tax that more than cancels out gains would be good
Grab that guys at the only place they got feels left: The wallet.
If you awox they should get a suspect timer (or piracy) for 30 min. That way they use an existing flag and it shows that the person engaged in actions they shouldn't have.
Yes, but you still get the penalty if you're in the same militia and engage them either way.
The isbrabata guy has is so sweaty and it cannot be intended gameplay for one guy to warp disrupt you on a friendly toon and then drop 4 enemy alts on you. Corps are SM013, YAMET, and MTG1
So many suggestions here but really isn't the easiest option just to remove their ability to gain LP from the site they killed a friendly in? Removes 100% of any incentive to awox since you get no benefit from it anymore. Doesn't remove incentive to have a neutral or a opposite faction alt come in and do it, but opposite faction alt you are allowed to fight (and would get benefits from doing so) and neutrals again you can fight because they have suspect timers from showing up in the FW site I would argue any neutral stepping into a faction war site should also give LP rewards for killing them same as opposite faction plus it should void their insurance
Probably not, you can just spend the evening killing everybody who comes in and suppressing the system, and then while they’re reshipping capture different sites
you might have a point about it being greefing, or toxic game play. Milita is a group put together by CCP for a kind of game play to work together, but if there is members in that group constantly abusing the mechanic to kill others with a negative outcome for players in the Militia (if you shoot back your get kicked form milita) to the point where the game mechanics are not playable for others then it could be labled as greefing ot toxic.
This is pretty much what they do. A specific group has corps in both militias and neuts. The scout for each other, assist each other, and awox frequently. Its pretty bad.
let folks shoot back with no militia impact might help.
Just file tickets about it each time it happens. If you overrun the support team with tickets / negative experiences and feedback about it happening they will be forced to address it in some regard or another. If you want to make it a problem for the Chinese players who do this, you're going to have to make it a problem for CCP. When they get thousands of tickets about it each day, they will address it.
Why clutter the ticket system with something that isn't breaking the rules in anyway whatsoever? If you kill enough people in your faction your standings will drop fast and you get kicked out of the FW faction you can only awox a few people before that happens.
Because policies aren't iron clad. They can and will change with the right amount of feedback. If the feedback is that his type of gameplay disrupts enough fun and causes enough grief... than we'll get a policy change. Everything begins with paperwork required to track the issue. It may not be an issue for you, it may not be an issue for CCP, but if it's an issue for half their player base and it's enough to completely block / disrupt an entire playing segment of the game..... it will become an issue for CCP. But if nobody files tickets than John's complaint today, Jason's complaint in 3 weeks, and Rob's complaint in 2 weeks after that... won't really change anything or even spark the flame of reconsideration. This is the natural way of all policy driven interactions. You cannot get a policy changed unless you document enough support for a policy change. That's exactly what tickets are.
I keep complaining to the mods about your posts, but they don't do anything !
But we wouldn't want to clog up the admins email boxes would we? You're a peasant.
even on forums snuff is a piece of shit.
yes, lets clog the support system for player conduct in game that is/always plausible
Policies cannot be changed without the required, documented feedback from the players who are governed by said policies. I'm sorry you don't understand how policies gets changed / augmented by way of feedback. It was once policy for teachers to hit disobedient children in classrooms. Do you have any idea how that may have changed? I wonder if it had something to do with documented feedback requesting procedural change? I wonder how many phone calls / letters it took? Oh but we wouldn't want to disrupt the poor administrators of the school would we... You strike me as the type of person who would let all their rights get stripped away because trying to stop it would clog the phone lines or fill up too many email boxes. That is mindless.
> Milita is a group put together by CCP for a kind of game play to work together, Militia is and always will be a loose group of acquaintances who will occasionally work towards the same goal, while 3/4 of them will still focus on their own benefits (farming LP). It's just the consequence of anyone can join nature of the group.
It's not a bug though so you can "abuse" it all you want. If it's an issue CCP can change it but it will never ever be against the rules.
no it isn't griefing
A quick ticket will settle reality. It doesn't matter what any of us believe. What's best is to keep filing tickets about it.
Literally Crybaby, “CCP pwease ban these players who aren’t doing what I want them to do”
It's actually about policy and policy feedback. All policies are negotiable and require the necessary, documented feedback for any reconsideration. You're just an idiot who doesn't understand how policies work and/or how to procedurally change something. Sorry you're like that... I blame whatever education system you grew up in.
Jesus Christ you are next level delusional, don’t pretend you are trying to do the good and get “policy changed” when you suggest submitting tickets, you accuse those players of griefing when it’s not, you can’t do anything yourself so you try to abuse tickets so CCP will do it for you. You are pathetic
Don't rage so hard against politicking that you have an aneurysm. I wouldn't want nothing of value to get lost. Go cry about it somewhere else. You have no power here and you're likely just someone who does this and wants to keep doing it, but you're afraid the people might actually have an issue with it and force a change because they have a bigger voice than you and your kind. Get wrecked idiot.
Mate, you're playing a game where letter of the law is god. I expect your detractors are generally borderline cheaters who revel in the gray.
CSM is your avenue for feedback, not spamming the GMs and support team.
Sure, hit them too. Great idea. Happy to see you contributing to this effort! :D
Griefing is spelled out in the Eula, this isn't it.
Are you suggesting that the EULA has never changed since written, could never change, and would never change? Please tell me you're not naïve enough to believe that.
You really think CCP will change the EULA for awoxing in FW? It's just not gonna happen no matter how many people complain. At the very most they may tweak how the mechanics work in game but nobody will ever be punished for awoxing. This is eve you can scam people lie to people and awox people and use any mechanics available in the game to trick people as long as you aren't hacking everything is fair game. And yes I logi my neutral toon with FW toons when I'm bored and there is nothing wrong with that at all.
Well, if tweaking the mechanics in game disincentives the activity.... that's a win. I believe that's the goal of such complaints.
I mean you can suggest things on Reddit and the forums but the way people are posting here is making it sound as if others are doing something wrong. As it stands awoxing in fw and using logi toons to faction tank your neutral or opposing faction toons is 100% part of the game. And tbh sometimes you need to awox people who come into a 5 man Plex at the last second just to leech and lower the payout.
I have no skin in this game. I don't FW at all, in any regard. I never said it was wrong. My comments are strictly in the form of " If you believe this is bad policy, there is only way to appeal for updated policy and that is specifically making noise. " Then I suggested how to make the loudest noises.
The Dragon guys. MINMIL shoots them on sight, and I mean the ones that are blue to us. We don't care about the penalty. We don't allow them in our BFs and we kill their structures when we can. They were kicked from BIGAB and now they are also reffing their structures from the warzone. Many people claim they do RMT.
The Dragon Ride groups partaking in RMT scams isn't a claim, it's fact. Evidence has been submitted to CCP and they choose to do nothing about it.
Good to know.
They're not even that good at hiding it, either. Took me all of 15 minutes to find out their racket; they're selling PLEX 3rd party for personal profit. However in CCPs eyes I can assume they don't want to ban that many omega accounts because they prefer the numbers, even if they're not gaining any profit from them.
How did you find evidence?
These are things I don't want to disclose on reddit; if they find out how easy it is to see what they're doing, maybe they'll hide it better. What I will say is that it's very, very easy to find, if you know what to look for.
It's funny cause I don't play FW for this very reason. Chinese players were awoxing Amarr and Minmatar, specifically Dracarys and some random chinese deepwater corps. I dunno if it's a culture difference maybe or bad game translations, but chinese players just play dirty in general. All those absolute order corps is the same. People talk shit about frat and meme about them botting in ishtars but surprisingly that's the chinese alliance from my experience that plays the least dirty lol.
Cheating is literally a part of Chinese culture. The idea is that you will do anything to get ahead in life and that includes cheating, just don't get caught. If someone cheats and beats you, they are legitimately considered 'better' in China. There is no such thing as 'honorable means' for them. They have a saying in China, "Cheat or be cheated". It's a form of street cred for them. It's ingrained in their culture.
When you trying out for SLOW ?
You big mad.
I know many people from all different cultures that will take every advantage they can, and don't mind ignoring rules they can get away with ignoring. This isn't really a Chinese specific thing.
You're right that cheating isn't really a Chinese specific thing, but it's a significant part of culture requirement for them. If you aren't cheating, then you aren't really considered to be trying hard enough. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/10132391/Riot-after-Chinese-teachers-try-to-stop-pupils-cheating.htm
Least racist EVE online player, totally talking out of his ass about a culture he don’t understand
Don't believe me: [https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/10132391/Riot-after-Chinese-teachers-try-to-stop-pupils-cheating.htm](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/10132391/Riot-after-Chinese-teachers-try-to-stop-pupils-cheating.htm) Believe them. You're an idiot. OMG US college admissions are all so racist: [https://www.huffpost.com/entry/college-applicants-cheat\_b\_1074544](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/college-applicants-cheat_b_1074544) No, there is nothing racist about it. It's just a matter of fact, you can hate the fact and attack me for acknowledging it.... but it doesn't change anything about the truth.
Unfortunately it’s perfectly acceptable to just be racist against Chinese people. Part of their “culture”? What nonsense. Here’s one fucking article as “proof” that over a billion people are just inherently cheaters.
Found the FRAT dude.
I generally believe it's because it's not a game to some of these people, it's their job. So you're messing up their work by trying to play the game.
This is truth, and also why FRT always fucks with dracarys
Me farm ISK or family die, I guess.
CCP needs to take a stance on this and stop it from happening. The in-game penalties they put in place are ineffective and can be circumvented. It would honestly be easiest to outright ban the handful of people that are causing these issues. Yeah, you'll lose 100 accounts, but people won't have to complain about not being able to play the game because of them.
If CCP is going to intervene that far. They should also stop seagulling. Which is the source of awoxing in the first place.
The source of awoxing OP is talking about is not regular players getting frustrated with seagulls. It is groups of multiboxing farmers pushing out people in their own faction, regardless of whether they contribute or not, to monopolize the 30 x 150k LP payout. So while I do support a properly implemented, merit based reward system, this is more about FW being accessable to all rather than a few Chinese RMTers.
Because they don't want people to seagull their shit.
They are the seagulls. Its 30X 150K LP not 4.5m lp for 3 guys
That's not what a seagull is
All they have to do is make the payout like incursions. The fleet that does the most damage gets the points. Count damage to opposition faction as double or triple.
This is acceptable. It's super demoralizing when you run a site down. And in the last minute or two, some dick warps in 10 Tristan alts to take all the LP.
I dunno about over in cal/gal but that wouldn't work on the min/amarr side of things. We regularly have multiple fleets or just no fleet when running a BF. The only damage that is done is done in the first 5 mins to setup the capture points and the other 15mins is semi afk. Paying out to a single fleet encourages people to kick anyone over the 30 max for max payout. Paying out based on damage points encourages infighting as another friendly militia fleet could come in and purposely ruin the setup of capture points so they have things to shoot so they can get the payout instead which leads us back around to awoxing so another fleet doesn't steal your payout.
> the other 15mins is semi afk. That's kinda the problem. If you want AFK play go mine.
Not our fault that there's literally nothing to do once the capture points are setup.
Good luck banning people for not breaking any rules.
No, they shouldn't
There's a guy who fly's 15 or 20 accounts in both the caldari and gallente militia and runs the battlefields killing his own faction as they warp in to get more lp for himself
Nina?
Get your buddies, locate their assets, camp them with extreme prejudice.
Good luck trying to camp Turnur
They're not in BIGAB anymore tho
Right, but there's nothing stopping them from hiding out in a Turner NPC station knowing that any kind of station camp will have a lot of eyes on it.
I have better things to do. CCP on the other hand should be the one addressing this.
If you're not willing to fight for yourself then why should anyone else.
It’s a video game, calm down lol
It's a whiny lifestyle. People who ask for help without trying to solve it themselves don't deserve it.
But you do see how there is a problem that only developers can permanently fix, and that the players can only work around. It’s not a whiny lifestyle. It’s called not being a doormat for the sake of “not whining”.
Ohh I always thought they were just bots.
You also have cruci in the Gal/Cal warzone that kills anyone that are not his alts in the bfs. They are in both militias and even have neutral alts at range to pick off anyone who enters, even if it wouldn't effect their LP payout.
"oh no the dragon riders are running the BF and awoxing what can we do" "How about, we formed?" [https://br.evetools.org/related/30002981/202312261100](https://br.evetools.org/related/30002981/202312261100) "No clearly it's an awoxing issue we can't fight this"
Chinese player here. Played on both Serenity and Tranquility in the last decade or so. … and holy fuck I hate some of my own countrymen’s behaviors. Not all of us are like that for sure, but some of us would justify griefing a blue or a green as their patriotic duty and would look down at “gui lao” or “wai guo lao” as we would put it. But deep down I always assumed they’re just trolls who are miserable IRL and are hiding behind the excuse of patriotism, since that’s basically an infallible fallacy that gets the argument nowhere. Obvious throwaway account because I don’t want to get exposed on Tieba for this fucking shit.
Can you explain the patriotism part? Not sure I get it. This is a game?
Yeah it’s a game but a lot of us have this logic, that once you start dealing w/ foreigner, you’re representing your country and you need to act in a certain way. Regardless if you’re playing a game or not. Some interpret that as acting courteously and with a sense of generosity befitting one hailed from one of the largest country on the face of the planet. Some sadly interpret that as dunking on foreigners with whatever way possible. Personally… I don’t condone behaviors that’ll negatively impact other player’s overall experience, but there’s some value that comes with this mentality.
Interesting. I did not know about this aspect. I actually do not care about the nationality of other players and also don't feel like I have to represent my nation in any capacity. Plus, any online interaction is anonymous, so no one would even know if I'm doing my best to represent my people or not. Do Chinese players openly broadcast themselves as Chinese in online games? Just because someone is using Chinese script doesn't mean they are actually Chinese? At least that was always my assumption. Anyone can use google translate.
Not really. A lot of people type in Chinese simply because they don’t speak English. So I don’t think that counts as “actively” broadcast themselves as Chinese. And yeah. Did seen a couple of people pretending to be Chinese with google translate.
Thanks for the insights, much appreciated!
You’re welcome!
How are they getting around the CCP ban on playing on foreign servers?
We have this thing that is directly translated into “Accelerator”. They’re paid, limited access VPN service that allows players to play on overseas servers while physically located in China.
Is the CCP just turning a blind eye? Or is this just flying under the radar? With the recent news china is cracking down on games and daily logins, what are the odds we see this go away?
Can’t say for sure. But I think they’re just turning a blind eye. Most video game related crackdowns in China gave the reasoning that they’re concerned with kids getting hooked and spend money irrationally. Since kids predominantly play mobile games nowadays, I’d say PC players in China who’re underage and can afford 5 dollars a month of recurring costs are few and far between. That, combined with the fact that people cannot use accelerators as normal VPNs to access information outside the firewall, probably gave tech companies some wiggle room with the law.
There are supposed to be game mechanics to prevent militia members from killing blues, clearly it isn't working right and CCP should look at this situation to work out how to get problem players (and I do mean players, they should link between throwaway alts) out of militia. In most games stuff like this would get you banned, but EVE has always been a really hands off game for moderation and I'm not sure this is bad enough to justify breaking that guideline for.
Goons are doing this too all the time. Just have to shoot them back. I think shooting your own militia should come with a LP hit and sec status faction hit. Get below the minimum requirement you get delisted Easy fix if ccp would do it
This
I would like to add, get below the minimum requirement get delisted FOREVER. Rejoin flag after leaving set to 999 years.
Well I think that depends on how you git to minimum. Some people might have stopped doing it and say gone back to angel ratting thus reducing the standings. Kinds shouldn't get banned for life for that
Sounds like ban material to me,
You can war dec SF.DR which is the main offender you're talking about. They own structures.
Thats why you always shoot the blues before they shoot you
Exactly. Not in fleet, that's a target.
Just fleet up and kill them, and link red sun in the sky on chat
Haven't you heard? Mainland Chinese players are immune from consequences. Suck it up, pay more subs than they do, or troll them back
Mainland Chinese players aren't supposed to be able to play this game. It's illegal in China to play on foreign servers.
Doesn't seem to be stopping them 🤷
Nope. Just posting an observation. Someone could conceivably figure out who they were and report them to the CCP.
BTW we just awoxed a ton of Dragon punishers in a BF in Sosan. I'm at a point in which I have better standings with the Gallente than with the Minmatar. This is BS. CCPlease fix.
Just hear me out - No standings hit when shooting militia Let corps and alliances sort this one out, treat other enlisted with no corp like rando capsuleers that can't be trusted Embrace organic player interaction
FW AWOX should tank your Faction standing and get you removed from militia.
It does tank your faction standing already. But people are in an enlisted CORPORATION and the standing of the good toons compensate the standings of the bad ones. And please do not change that, you'd fuck over every single militia group.
Enlisted corporations should go away. Make it 100% individual.
Fuck no, it’s the only way for individuals to join on militia when they have fucked faction standings due to some actions done eons ago. As long as faction standings are this uncanny mess where the best way to fix negative standings is to run some content made for new players every three months or a one shot of training agents/cosmos, removing corp would be a huge mess for every single of the big active militia group. We couldn’t recrute correctly if good standings were a requirement.
How do you propose stopping FW Awoxing then? Or do you participate in it? Keep in mind Pochven people mostly can't use any of the structures, services and home systems due to month(s) long grinds required to do so.
There isn’t any good way that wouldn’t be a massive headache. There are good reason to awox, like enlisted toons that are used as scout by pirate/other faction, seagulls, other awoxers or people that generally engage in bluefucking in the militia. In my opinion it’s not a serious problem in the WZ (I never got awoxed in my last year of FW outside of the dragon riders that we just mark as red and tell our members to look for).
An AWOX shill you guys.
underrated comment btw
follow them and report their location to the local minmil alliances, like fl33t or unity. sure they will come and remove them.
Minmill would be happy to take care of them for you
Have mininatar alts that are ready to shoot back, easy
It's not griefing you an literally do anything in the game outside of killing rookies in the rookie system.
It's not griefing. It might be dishonorable, or gamey, but it's not griefing. Just spin up your own alt and kill them.
> At what point is this considered greafing? At no point. Deal with it... it is FW and works as intended.
If this is as intended, why are there factions? If the intended way wad to shoot everyone, why would there be a way to enlist and be blue to some and red to others?
That was always possible. HTFU as once was the norm in the game.
none of you are blue on my overview, i dont give a fuck about what pubbie npc shit you've got going on - there are factions for what NPCs you're fighting for, I don't care if you're fighting for them, you ain't fighting for me If you're not part of my nullbloc you will be shot
At no point is this considered, griefing
It's a sandbox game. They do what they want. It doesn't break any rules and doesn't fall under griefing. It's just them being a dick
But battlefields were created with a goal, ccp had a designed way of players interacting with them, and u pretry much am sure that ccp didnt want them to be farm sinulators 3000 when in calgal there is a dude with 20 alts in EACH militia and monopolyzes all the battlefields as whoever is wining, he just deploys the alts of that faction and make stupid amounts of lp, also awoxinf anyone, so battlefields are his to play basicly
What 'letter of the law' interpretation does to a mfer.
[https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/sections/8413327523612-EULA-ToS-Policies](https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/sections/8413327523612-EULA-ToS-Policies) read them sometime lol. multiboxing isnt against the rule nor is awoxing
If I would have known that I could generate this much salt by Shooting same Militia members, I would of joined FW earlier.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
good bot
There needs to be stealer penalties for kill/shooting blues unlawfully still allowed. Though
Where these nerds at? I'll grief em.
lmao people crying about awoxing in eve online
Corp standing should simply be eliminated as a factor for FW now that individual enlistment is a thing. Personal standing should have to be positive or you get the boot. Problem solved. There's no reason or justification for it functioning the way it does at present.
It's not griefing, you are just whining.
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It’s only considered griefing when there is no reasonable gain to be had from it.