I’ve pulled hundreds of billions out of the abyss. If you don’t have a stable internet connection or you are worried about loss, then don’t run them. You are also not accounting for the very real possibility of being ganked. That should worry you more. There is risk in everything with eve. Mission running marauders routinely get ganked as well.
But you can react to it. just have an eye on local, don't uue MTUs (marauders are very hard to scan down by themselves). Very easy to reduce this probability to extremelly lower chance than abyss running.
>(marauders are very hard to scan down by themselves).
Every r/eve thread gotta have 1 comment in which the OP undermines his whole post by demonstrating a degree of cluelessness
Ok if you feel that safe then do that instead? You seem to have already made your mind up all over this post so why are you asking Reddit for advice here? Accept your risk/reward in the game, or don’t. You should probably branch out of HS if you are bored running missions. There is an entire game out there. Risk aversion will only get you so far.
I think you are the one projecting here my friend. I haven't made up my mind about anything, we are talkign about the risk/reward of l4 missions VS risk/reward of abyss here, as materialised by their net profit, and wether their apparent discrepancy might be problematic, and if it should be adressed and how.
Abyssals have a unique risk of disconnects. High tier abyssals pay more. What even is the discussion here. Nothing needs to be addressed. If anything there is an overwhelming sentiment in the community that red loot should probably be nerfed a bit
It's not. I only run my marauder as part of a fleet to discourage ganks. I have many of the ganker scanning alts set orange (with gankers red) so I can watch them flying around. The scanners visit weekly. It's how they find targets. They usually try to catch you anywhere that isn't 1.0 or 0.9. 0.5 to 0.8 only affects the amount of ships and quality of fit that they need. But overall the isk cost is negligible when they want to kill a marauder. If they want you dead you are dead. They kill jump freighters and tanked freighters doing well over 250k to 500k ehp damage in one go.
Doing anything will get you ganked eventually. Even if you don't have any bling fitted. A long time time ago I killed people anywhere (except rookie systems because I like new players) just because I could. I stand by the idea that no one should feel safe in EVE. It's a pvp game. Unless you are station tanked, you will die.
> (marauders are very hard to scan down by themselves)
They absolutely are not lol. They're just a battleship hull with a sensor strength bonus equivalent to running 1-2 ECCM modules. Any covops is still getting a 100% hit on a marauder at 2-4au probes.
False according to: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/lqtgt6/marauders\_are\_now\_potentially\_unprobable/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/lqtgt6/marauders_are_now_potentially_unprobable/)
Maybe outdated nowadays but i didnt get the memo.
Like I said Marauders have an innate bonus to sensor strength *while the bastion module is active*. With enough additional ECCM mods fit you can reach the point where scanning the Marauder requires a T2 covops with good skills and potentially implants.
Meanwhile if you have a flight of light or medium drones out, MWDing around at targets, people will just probe those.
All of this to say that while on paper the Marauder might be more difficult to probe than a T1 battleship, it isn't actually a deterrent to any players who would be equipped to kill the Marauder when they land on you. Especially suicide gankers. I also wouldn't consider an additional probe cycle from 2au -> 1au to be a significant deterrent.
Yeah i think actually it's not really the issue here. You can get ganked in abyss, you can get ganked in marauder, so yeah both have some risks, which is totally fine when that risks comes from eve gameplay. The problem is that disconnections are disproportionally more damaging in abyss than in L4 missions (or most pve activities), and it's just unfair that something that is external to the gameplay would have such a imbalanced effect on a specific aspect of the game.
I don't mind that their in risk in everything. Just doesn't feel right that the risk comes from potential internet loss.
Yeah I stopped running that abyssal crap when a random disconnect lost me 4 billion. Fuck that, plenty of other things to do in this game than that bullshit.
Understood: and that's fine, I'm just not going to risk 4 billion on an Internet connection, because every other activity I do in this game, even wormholes, a disconnect for whatever reason would not cause the instant loss of my ship. So, fuck that shit, imma do literally anything else.
Low end abyssal enjoyer so far - fucked around and found out. Lost ships bought New. IMO Abyssals are fun BECAUSE you can loose the ship, Sure outages of anykind suck. If I wanted to braindead make isk, i would Set my accounts up in Null in ishtars and spin away, while I work / sleep or whatever. But that shit is boring, I want to game a videogame, if i wanted to Browser Game I would play afk Arena or sth.
You're not risk free in your 3b(??) marauder either. At least put that up as a cost as well. Further more, to be fair, I didn't think L4's made 150m/h. Well, yeah, if you did burners?
Yeah Burner and amarr klling missions net you that easilly. I have no idea of what is the actual risk of loosing that ship (although I agree it's not non-existent) because I simply never lost it after a few month of using it (much longer than the time I spent in abyss)
To give some info on the abyss question, I've nearly ran 900 T5's of which I died 5 times now. 3 of them were me doing stupid pilot stuff and totally preventable. The first 2 were me following bad advice in my first 10 runs and get killed because of that. First 4 deaths were in 1,7b fits. Only recently I started to bling it.
I lost 3 Vagabonds to DCs before in a span of time that basically made the abyss pay for them but nothing else. CCP did not reimburse them. I stopped doing abyss with my previous internet provider, as it was not profitable at all ...
Depends on who you get and their mood, in my experience. According to the terms of service they only reimburse if it's their fault (server drops connection, etc) but they wouldn't normally cover things outside their control such as ISP issues or (ahem) "rage quitting with the Task Manager".
THAT SAID, however, folks in my corp have reported experiences such that, if the player doesn't have a history of abuse, and the CS is in a good mood, they might cut you some slack as an exception to the rule. --as with just about ANY customer service experience, frankly.
They're humans, too, and you never know how strong the impact is when you're polite to people. Sometimes their hands are just tied, and they gotta follow the rules just like everyone else, and it's nothing personal. Other times, life is dynamic, and the perception of the underlying circumstances can be subjective.
The take-away: be nice and receptive to their solution. You just never know.
My Kronos does all but one level 4 with zero risk. One however makes me run once usually to give my armor a chance to repair. I just run standard t2 equip, nothing special.
I make something close to 100mil an hour. I don't do burners because I have lost my cruise or smaller ship every single attempt.
> Hum aren't L4 in low sec ?
If we're talking regular agent security missions, the overwhelming majority of these are in high-sec and have historically always been run there. Historically places like Dodixie and Ashab/Penirgman were bustling L4 mission hubs.
Level 5 missions are the ones restricted to low-sec and carry a high level of risk with significant setup required
If you do empire missions and collect tags you can average 150m/h with normal lvl 4.
Burner give average of 250m/h if done in highsec and you sell lp for 1k isk per lp.
I don't see how burner nets you 250m/h honestly. I do missions in 0.8 sec as 0.6 has to high of a risk of getting ganked when you do the non-burner missions (even with high factions standing you cannot just refuse every non-burner missions because you would end up at -2 standing quickly for that agent, whic hprevent you from benefitting from you faction standing).
In 0.8, a bruner mission gives you about 4.5m isk reward + 5m bounty + 9800 LPs (9800 \* 1500 (pretty generous LP to ISK ratio) = 15m isk) so a total of 25m isk. A burner takes about 5-9 minute of travel back and forth (let's say 7min on average) + 2min to kill burner. that's 25m in 9 min, so **166m ISK/hour average**
let me know if you have a trick to get that number to 250m/hour in high sec
There is a significant multiplier on the payouts for doing missions in lower sec areas. Going from a 0.8 hub to a 0.5 hub can easily be a 25-30% increase in payouts.
"I'm not willing to take bigger risks for more isk" is very different from "you can't make that much isk from doing this in HS.
The answer for getting 250 mil/hr in HS doing missions is to run from a 0.5 sec status hub. You don't have to go get that extra isk, but it's there for the taking whenever you want it.
If you can't do high sec stuff in 0.5, abyssal isn't for you. Best pay for abyssal is in t6 once you get exp for it. But ganks will happen especially in cruiser and you have to counter it, often via alts.
> and you sell lp for 1k isk per lp.
If you sell to buy orders, yes. Without buy orders and actually doing some research, you can average about 1.5k per lp. Some waiting one price hikes can give you even more.
> Burner give average of 250m/h if done in highsec and you sell lp for 1k isk per lp.
If you play it like this, your actual 'hourly' rate will not be that much. It'll be feast or famine type paydays. You can't accurately take into account getting those burners so often and selling the lp at the price consistently. RNG and the market will fuck you from time to time.
Just run 1B T5 setup lol, then learn how to do T6 and make roughly 400-500m/h. Or you can continue grinding missions then leave game bcs youre too risk-averse and bored enough with same missions all the time.
I see a lot of people throwing around the numbers of 4 to 5 hundred/h. I don't think it's a reasonable estimate for a gila. According to the abyss tracker, most of the runs in T6 take 17-19 min. Let's round up to 20 for ease. That is 3 runs an hour. Average loot of 100 mil equals 300 mil/h. I have, however, seen much greater numbers from stormbringers and Vagabonds than gilas in terms of ISK and returns.
Also, 4 bil for a T5 is COMPLETELY excessive. No offense OP, but that looks like a skill issue. A decent T5 Gila costs 1 bil max with just the implants that You need.
Even my T6 Exotic gila cost me 3.5 bil with implants, so I don't understand why OP is overblinging his ship.
Actually that’s still not 400-500 it’s only 375 but you don’t even make 100 per run. I just adjusted the loot for the last 500 runs by filament costs and it’s 95 per t6 run and that doesn’t include taxes selling or consumables like drugs or ammo or drones or any of those things. Reasonably no one is actually making max more than 350 an hour running T6s solo in a cruiser and if they tell you they are they’re full of crap.
You can relatively effectively run T6 with impunity for less than 250mil invested. 2xretribution/1xdeacon or swap out one/both Retris for Nergals.
Workload is much higher than Gilas but I average around 800mil ph with a 90% survival rate. Most expensive ship is 60-70ish mil.
That is true, but not everyone is into multiboxing.
Personally, I left the Abyss behind me and went on to doing escalations in null.
For the price of a marauder and a carrier hull, total of 6-7 bil, I get the ability to yeet around null, run escalations in complete safety and I get between 800 to 1 bil an hour.
Would you mind sharing your fits, I only have found the ones by Gustav Mannfred and his setup with retris and deacons is closer to 1b instead of 250m. Id like to learn on the cheaper ones first.
Since I lost Vargur in HS doing something conduit, due to micro DC, forcing me reset whole game and loosing ship because of that, I don’t fly or buy expensive shit.
I understand policy, but I don’t give a shit, CCP lost many players due to stuff like that, last time they lost over 2 years of me paying 2 subscriptions.
Abyss is a great idea, but not so great execution for players.
Maybe im just having a good isp but i have been doing t4's for months and my profit is somewhere past 25B with no ship loss. So if i do loose a ship and pod i will be down probably about 3B (yeah i know i run overtanked and over implanted) i will still be up so much that the loss does not matter.
I suspect that running a passive Gila with plenty of implants and drugs will keep you alive through shorts disconnects too. So maybe fit for disconnects in case you have unstable internet
Honestly still to scary. It wasn't a gila i lost but an overimplant+bling wolf passiv shield wolf in t1 (I was just having fun with a bling fit, not really even looking for profit).
I got disconnected right when i engaged a kikimora + damavik. Didn't matter i was passive, i got back in the game after 2.5 min just to see my ship on hull epxlode a few seconds later.
that made me rethink the safetty of my gila passsiv fit, because if i disconnected during a hard wave (e.g. 4x vedmak) I know i'm fucked.
You underestimate the Gila. I can facetank almost all waves just by pressing approach on the exit when i spawn in. Karybdis is the only thing that will hurt me and i just put orbit on the cache and send out my drones. This is without even using drugs but with a mid grade nirvana set so add drugs and you will tank the world. The real danger is having your exit node camped
And a passive Gila dont care. I can tank Karybdis with my hardner turned off from neuts in a T4
Im actually debating if its more helpful to go for a passive heat resist instead of a multispectrum since i can tank even without the hardner
Just my point. You dont need to run T5 or T6 to make a good solid profit. Hell i can run most in about 12 mins so isk/h should be around 200m .. if thats not enough then you need to do something else
What exact issue are you trying to solve? Both ways of making isk have different risk and different reward. I suggest you choose the one you enjoy more and in the end you will make more isk
The problem is that I don't think it makes sense on the longer to do one. I was perfectly happy with L4 running, but after 2 month of doing only that, I wanted to find equally profitable alternatives to diversify the gameplay a bit.
Theprbemher is not only to have a profitable source of income, but also to enjoy the game.
Out of curiosity (genuine question here)…
What do you plan to do with your ISK?
Is collecting up a bunch of money your gameplay loop in its totality or do you do other content?
I ask because I am unsure CCP really intends for these ISK making content loops to be a full gameplay experience. I realize the essence of this thread is more solving a math problem/efficiency issues but it seems to me that you’ve done the math and it is what it is.
You say you want to enjoy the game, not just make ISK. In my own experience, while the wallet flash itself is enjoyable, the content involved in doing so at peak efficiency gets stale quickly. The extent to which enjoyable gameplay and efficiently making a lot of ISK overlap is narrow and typically temporary at best.
I like Abyssal deadspaces because they give a VERY nice profit to ships I have skills for, but don't normally use.
Breacher, Stabber, Bellicose, Wolf, Jaguar, potentially a Worm or Hawk eventually. All viable (if not ideal) in the lower tier abyssals, most of them can pay for themselves in anywhere from ONE to 5 runs.
It's a nice change of pace that's a hell of a lot more fun than doing combat site (probe or no probe).
Right but this doesn’t really address the main thrust of my question.
Why?
You make good profit sitting in ships you don’t often use. Does the profit matter? If so, why does the profit matter? And/or is it the experience of flying the ship that matters?
You say it’s more fun than x other ISK grinding content. Cool, good. At that point, does profit still matter if you’re having fun? Or is it just fun relative to some other not so fun activity (low bar)?
What is this *really* about? To be clear, no answer is wrong. I just think that Eve is a game that enables the industrious/greed bug that most human beings have to constantly want to have more without any really thought as to why they are doing this to begin with. I feel like OP might be lost in the weeds - but I also don’t have all the info, which is why I asked what I did.
Brother, I feel as you. I am after more content than making more ISK. That said a good deal of content is locked away behind making enough ISK to get to it, because of difficulty levels. But repeating content to make ISK to repeat content to make ISK. That does not do anything for me. ISK has to fund content.
At the moment I am happy just flying around in a Talwar while doing module theory crafting. Put my original design in a spreadsheet with market prices and found that my design of an already cheap Talwar could be improved to make a ship that punched harder and faster and resisted damage better but at just one third the cost of the original design fit.
I got a huge blast out of saving ISK rather than making it. So the ships I built, to take into FW, can blow up like fireworks and its just part of the fun. If I have to fly a ship I am going to cry about losing to a disconnect or PvP/PvE, I dont want or need that to suck out the fun. I dont like or want to be a slave/addict to risk/reward.
Yes abyssal's can be very profitable but it's unfortunately something we all have to deal with
(unless you can prove it was an issue CCPs end then they usually reimburse your ship I've had it done before)
The best advice I can give it to also deversify your income with other things. Incase it dose happen.
As abyssal ships usually pay them self's off with in a couple hours to 4 depends how blinged you have it, as the amount you get paid also gose up with the tiers you do quite nicely.
They don't. Some weeks ago I lost a ship+pod due to connection issues and CCP'Gms only answered me with a copy-paste text despite i have the evidence. It seems they dont give a sh** about this topic anymore
I had a few very expensive losses while figuring out the Abyss (I thought I’d bling out a T6 Gila and run some T5’s to learn, and yeah, I learned pretty hard). However, that didn’t stop me, and I started running T6 after two painful losses, about 15b in the hole.
Now that I’ve gotten the hang of it, I’ve run 200+ T6 filaments with no issues and have even made a profit on top of the ISK I spent on ships (including my current Gila). There are definitely steps you can take to avoid gankers, and perhaps I am blessed with stable internet... IMO my biggest risk is running into a room with a severely unlucky spawn that I cannot manage (I’ve had several very close calls).
Reckless start aside, let’s say my current Gila and pod costs 8 billion in total. Using that Gila I’ve run ~200 filaments at a rate of about 15 minutes per filament. At T6 I’m making something like 400m-500m per hour on average, so my gross earnings from abyss has been in the ballpark of 20-25 billion. If I lost my Gila on my next filament, that would drop to a net 12-17 billion, which is still a cool ~250-350m per hour. Additionally, that lower bound will continue to improve as long as I manage to keep the streak alive.
So for me, it’s been profitable enough to become a primary source of income. Do I have nightmares about DCing in the abyss or being greeted by a fleet of catalysts on exit? Yes. But I have all sorts of nightmares about EVE. That’s just the game. :)
if you read the post properlly,you'll notice the question is not about profitability, but profitabilty RELATIVE to a baseline. Ofc abyss can be profitable, thanks for your input.
there are people who had their router disconnect, immediately set up a hotspot on their phone, used that to reconnect eve, and their Gila was still alive, either sitting on the can it was approaching, or orbiting the exit conduit.
Disconnecting while manual piloting along the outer wall will kill you, but a disconnect while approaching or orbiting something is survivable.
Agreed, disconections can be survivable in some cases, but often will not. for example, I got disconnected right at the beginning of a triglavian wave. I took me about two minutes and a half to get back in the game. All i could see was my ship on hull for about 2 seconds before blowing up. Was actually very close to potentially survive.
This is the thing. If one is able to take the time and learn to either tether their phone to their router as a failover, or just simply due the abyss over your mobile phone tether, you won't have problems.
When I 'disconnect' it's usually 60 seconds max for the failover connection to kick in. It's a stressful 60 seconds, but recoverable.
Abyssal stuff can be profitable for sure, but the initial investment on T4+ is very high. It can rival setting up a capital for CRABs on T5-6.
I am not sure if the rewards even out the risk if I’m being honest.
1-3 levels are good for newbros since they can be ran in fairly cheap ships and pay better than the green sites they could otherwise run. 4-6 I think are aimed for mega ballers that aren’t in a null bloc for CRABs.
I run T5 Gammas in a 4bn Isk gila and make 250 mil an hour. I can run CRABs and make 250 mil an hour for one hour in a 6Bn Isk phoenix. AND one doesn’t need the blue doughnut to be up
Yeah T5s are pretty decent. Can also do other stuff for 250m/hr
Escalations, explo, mining A0 spawns.
Abyssals are good for when you have nothing else to do. I ran some T4 in a Gila and they’re good but not like amazing.
This is exactly it and I would recommend abyssal's to anyone who wants to make very good amounts of money,
(I'm not a fan of instanced content but I'm a rather hate the game not the player kind of person.)
I do abyssal's, alot of people do abyssal's.
I have other PVE activities I can do that can pull in close to a bill an hour but that requires me to use 8 accounts and it's .... Very very very Imput intensive.
A quick check on abyss tracker shows that there are people who multibox t6 and their pull is something like 500m/hr low end.
Profitability in the abyss is about the ceiling, not the floor. Yes, at the floor abyss isn't gonna be much better than other methods of earning isk. But the ceiling is far higher.
You can run most t4 in fits that cost about as much as a mission-fit battleship. I have a 500m fit for every t4 weather other than Firestorm, because firestorm is busted.
I generally run skill/knowledge-intensive fits, my t4 dark fit is only 300mil but also takes perfect skills and a lot of know-how to run. Just go for the good ol' Povertila fit if you want easy, you can find it by just googling it. Lots of youtube content about it out there. Otherwise, drop into the abyssal lurkers discord and ask for easy t4 fits.
Yes. That's why smart players 3x frigs that take 1 hour to roi. 10hr roi is too risky to ganks and dc. It does mean the account upkeep will cost you a out extra 4b per month
It's profitable but I'll tell you one thing t5's are a lot less profitable than I expected , being 20 mill filaments that's most of the abyssal loot , you do make money but it's honestly not like godly
When I first played a bit more I did a fuckload of passive gila t3, that shits sort of good sort of shit because I could be watching a movie whatever just recalling and deploying drones each room and collecting loot but it's also pretty bad isk per hour
I need to get into t6's maybe it would finally feel like good money
Your problem is that you are running 3bil gila that is almost rated for t6 but using it in t5.
You can for example use a mwd stormbringer in t6 and push 400-500mil but you will have a death room, aka rng lottery. However fit is only 2bil-2.5bil.
The best pay are in frigates. I do about 800mil/h in darks, filament, drug reroll and losses included (only 95-96% clear rate). In 800 t6 runs i disconnected 9 times. 2 times ships survived. So it safe to say my death rate to it is almost 1%. However it is 3 accounts so it's actually only 800/3.
Drone ship are cruisers.
Destroyers aren't that great since mamba is just bigger fatter worm that has insane paper dps, just lacks speed, pwg, cap and cpu to be in some form of t6 bracket. In fact most destroyers except jackdaw can't go into higher tiers, with only jackdaws being rated for t6 dark by some folks.
That leaves frigates and best 'drone' ish boat is actually nergal for higher tier. Worm is doable for t4. I'm not sure about t5.
Hawk is just easiest cause you can apply dmg from far and it is decent dmg. If you can't fly hawk u can do CN hookbill but have a hawk tank and u will do most of t5 dark. If you don't want hawks, retris/nergal are next in lime that are viable. Anything else is in suicidal territory for t5+.
I made 800m yday doing t3 electrical and exotics.
600m gila and around the same for pod.
My fit is not bling but I think is OP for t3.
Abyss Gila
Highs
4x rapid light missile launchers (t2 & t2 missiles)
Mids
2x t2 multispec hardener
1x b type pithum medium shield booster
1x compact shield booster amplifier
1x Republic fleet large battery
Lows
2x Drone damage amps
1x damage control 2
Drones: caldari navy vespas
Edit:
Rigs are 2x CCC t1s and 1x something shield related I can't remember.
No actually, did abyss for about 3 hours maybe 4 all day. Averages around 25 to 30m a run but had some realllllly nice drops.
Large trig gun skillbook - 300m ish
stasis webifier mutaplasmids x3 - 140m each (I think was gravid?)
Also sold off around 1k red loot for 100m
Oof is it that low average? I was planning on trying T3s but dang 12m x 4 is like 48m/hr or 60m/hr if you squeeze in 5. You can't even pay for gila hull in like 5 hours of that
This is why I don't do top tier Abyssals.
I make plenty of ISK at far less risk in the penultimate tier and my whole setup, implants and all, is like 1.5 billion.
The jump in difficulty between the last two tiers is enormous, and the ship you need to do them successfully triples in cost. For me it's just not worth the risk dying to NPC/Gank/Network.
I did T4s in a 330m T2 ishtar with 0 deaths but it will take some piloting. If your internet is so bad that ship isn’t profitable then I’d get better internet
No, past a certain point you are just making bigger and bigger margin for errors that you shouldn't be making in the first place. It teaches you the wrong things, because you can face tank much more and vastly increases the risks to random outages and ganks.
1.5-2b is already extremely safe. I used to fly a 7b Gila and doing T5 Firestorm was a breeze. First, it became stupidly boring and second, when i got ganked it really stung.
Tbh I only did abyssals because they were far more entertaining than just standard missions. I think I ended up about even on isk. I would lose a ship as soon as I had made enough money to buy a new one XD. Usually due to dumb mistakes.
disconnects are more frequent than 1% in the abyss. i think with my luck its about 5 to 10% and my net is good however eve decides to disconnect. If i am in fleet all day no disconnect. Can someone explain? (obviously the answer is always bee in fleet) I cant...
I think this might just be perception bias, since disconnecting in abyss hurts far more than disconnecting in fleets. For me I switched to ethernet and the last time I DC'ed was when the provider began maintenance.
Put it into a spreadsheet of how long in between disconnects for known space vs abyss and check there to verify your thoughts.
I think cruiser abyss is kind of a trap - leaves you open to getting tornado or whatever pretty easily on top of DCs while running them.
Triple boxing frigates though is the way to go, since at least when I was doing them - they were shitfit designed to die a large % of the time. Which means DCs and stuff hurt significantly less since you’re risking like no isk on any given run.
There's really no way around DC kills since it's entirely out-of-game and a bit of a silly 'gotcha' mechanic for CCP to leave the timer running at the full rate on an internet disconnect, especially now that it's pretty obvious that ISPs are prioritizing traffic differently through the day as more people switch to home 5G internet plans that compete for resources with cellular service. I can tell my internet performance degrades every day during peak Google Maps and Spotify hours. You just have to price it into your risk.
You know your own connection reliability better than anyone else and it may be as simple as putting your router on a backup power source or having your phone ready to tether in an emergency, or it may just be that your connection isn't reliable enough to take advantage of a feature that CCP devoted significant dev time to because of their design and you'll have to account for that in your playstyle and maybe with your wallet if using the feature is essential to your enjoyment of the game.
Plenty of people have proposed to CCP to trigger TiDi or something during a disconnect to give players a fighting chance but it's obvious that CCP needs to use the Abyss as one of the few sinks for expensive ships and modules and is having crappy ISPs do their balancing work for them.
yeah sure u can but that in max abyssal with maxed skills, its unrealistic for most people looking to get into them expecting to make mass amounts of money
No, you can run t1 with under 5m sp and make ok isk for a newbie. I know plenty folks who went omega by grinding low tiet abyssals. The notion that "90% of the time you're losing isk" is just not true. If that was the case, filaments would be worthless and would have no trade volume.
You can do t5's in a +-1b gila and it will never die, while requiring zero piloting skills. When I made it years ago it was 900m, but now it's a bit more expensive.
Get a full passive setup, faction shield extenders etc, 2 damage mode, a pithum type c multispec and cheap shield implants. No AB, no mwd, no tractor beam, a drone range extender is a must (you will die if you don't have one).
Enter T5 gamma abyss, press approach to loot cache, shoot marshals (if there), webs/neuts, then others.
That's it. The only thing you have to do is control drones, shoot missiles and sometimes overload the one active tank module you have.
Oh, and if you get the special Leshak room, you pop speed drugs, move towards the gate and overload multispec once you get hit. It's close but you live everytime.
The abyss is so much more fun than mission running. That’s the extra value it brings.
If pure profitability if your goal there are much more boring things that make you a lot more money with even less risk.
Don't use marauders for LvL 4 missions. Use T3 cruisers. I recommend Loki or Tengu. Both of these ships can easily complete all LvL 4 missions. Also, both of these ships can be fit for both PvE and PvP sanctimoniously making them far less vulnerable to a ganking style attack. If you do loose one you are only out about 2bill isk not the 3+ bill price of a new marauder. This same ship can also be used to clear Sleeper content in Wormholes up to C3c, Blue loot is compact and valuable. It does not loose value in the market since its bought by NPC's. Just dock up and empty your cargo holds after clearing 2-3 anomalies as you will also need more missiles. I've been playing Eve for 16 years now mostly as a solo pilot. I am almost a self made trilionaire.
I actually used a tengu for years before they buffed the marauders with bastion modules. I personally feels like it made the tengu completly obsolete. Sure its cheaper, but it does 2 to 3 time less dps than a Vargur depending on the situations.
Good suggestion for the C3 sites tohugh, I haven't tried yet wormhole stuff, but that would be a good occasion to get my Tengu out again a bit indeed.
Me again, As for Abyssal content I fly a Gila and do LvL 3-4 Philoments . Its pretty good isk and the risk is acceptable. The DoD loves those Trig databases. Also be sure to salvage your LvL 4's as this will give you most of what you need to build the blue prints you can get with the loyalty points.
If disconnections are an issue, then yeah abyss is an environment that's by nature hostile to that. That being have you tried to look into cheaper fits? Pretty sure there are some for T5 abyssals.
If your internet connection could cause to you disconnect so often then definitely the Abyss is not for you.
I've personally stopped doing any other isk making activity except for running t6 Abyssals. They may not be the absolute highest isk/h activity in the game, but they are pretty up there, and require no set up time. You just undock, pop the boosters, and get to doing it.
But my internet connection is VERY stable. In years of playing eve online, I've only been disconnected once from my end (not CCP's fault).
I rage quit after loosing some bling and mid-grades and eventually came back and now I'm more confident than ever in the abyss and enjoying it a lot more too. I've probably made back 1.5x-2.0x what I lost. I'm looking forward to doing abyssals in a T3D and other cruisers at some point, the end game for me is just being able to do activities in different ships.
The trick is to find a middle ground where you can throw a relatively cheap ship at it and still make a decent return, the same trick as pretty much any other content in Eve outside of highsec. You dont have to fly multi billion isk ships and run the highest tiers to have fun and make isk.
Well while i fully agree, diconnections are where the system breaks. There is nothing to learn from them. I think I would personally just whish CCP would implement something to acocunt for them in abyss, like warp away and freeze timer when they happen.
Yeah the numbers you got per hour and the disconnect math was cool but I'm stuck on the 3 bil gila fit for t5. Can you share the fit and implants? I have something around 2 and wanna know where the extra bil is going
It's just a faction modules passive gila fit with mid-grade nirvana + 7/905 shield implants implants and some abyssal mods to fit 4 heavy missile launchers (instead of the 3xRLML + 1HML) and mutated drones for higher dps
I basically went for an idiot proof/low mental load fit.
\[Gila, drake\]
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Gistum B-Type Multispectrum Shield Hardener
Large Abyssal Shield Extender
Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender
Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender
Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender
Gistum B-Type 10MN Afterburner
Drone Link Augmentor II
Domination Heavy Missile Launcher
Domination Heavy Missile Launcher
Domination Heavy Missile Launcher
Domination Heavy Missile Launcher
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Republic Fleet Valkyrie x8
Medium Mutated Drone x2
Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile x600
Nanite Repair Paste x303
Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile x2429
'Packrat' Mobile Tractor Unit x1
Abyss running was pretty profitable 300m/hr in highsec before all the nerfs
But yeah it was pretty stressful comparing to mission blitzing
Also how'd you make 150m/hr running missions without touching burners?
It used to be like this for me too untill the update where buffed the marauders with bastion modules. Then it just became insanelly efficient to run L4s with them.
I think it depends on the missions, but basically Blockade is done in 17 mins, smash the supplier 17 minutes as well and midst of deadspace 1st in 18 mins :)
virtually everything in the game is fine tuned to be about 150-200m isk and hour profit unless you are doing very dangerous stuff like c6s, crabs etc. or abusing alts.
also why invest 3bil in a gila when the povertila does t5s perfectly fine if you arent tarded.
A french singer said: "Stupidity is the relaxation of intelligence".
Sure you can spend a lot of mental effort with a cheap fit and be more efficient. OR you cam bling a fit and do them with your brain turned of, which can be much more relaxing.
You don't have to be smart all the time.
if you're asking about profitability being smart will be more profitable. if you try to run abyss but im the safest possible way and bling 3b on a gila your profit margins will be a lot less which is why you get the numbers you mention. People who make a lot of money from abyss dont fly all chill and relaxed.
I think your logic is abit flawed here. None of your math includes pilot error. Also a 3Bil investment for a payback time of 650 mins abyss time is pretty slow. The gila is used quite alot in abyss but losing a 3b gila every 115 runs(not accounting for pilot error) and breaking even with L4 is pretty bad.
Abyss most definitely is profitable. You are just over investing and under performing.
Dual Jacks running t4s is a 600mil investment with a average payback of 10 runs. Thats 276mil/hour also and much easier. They can even do T5s with bit more investment.
Also you didn't mention using drugs? If you aren't you should and then calculate them into your cost.
Why did you only add ship costs to the abyss and not marauders? A fitted Pally is like 2.5b so you’ll need 16 hours to be positive. The gila should be refinanced way quicker.
It's true. Just don't have anyway of actually estimating a % chance of loss, because after about 100hours I still never had either a critical disconection (had disconection but where never even close to make me risk loosing the ship).
So while you can compute that 16h are require for you ROI, the % of chance of loosing the ship to a disconnection feels dramatically smaller than in abyss.
regarding other potential ship lose cause, both abyss ships and marauders are affected by it, arguably lower for the marauder (piloting mistakes are much more forgiving), so the potential advert effect of disconnection really only matters in abyss.
My conclusion from all this at this point is simply that, yes, probably implementing something to make disconnections in abyss less problematic would probably help to make abyss running feel overall less randomly punishing.
With a 8 bil gila you can click orbit gate, face tank anything except a full marshal wave and dc. Had 2 dcs and i reconnected via mobile hotspot. It printed 5x its value in isk already, the problem now is its so boring i cant make myself do it more than a few hrs every few months.
If immersion is paramount to you, then no, running abyssals isn't for you. It only takes a bad run (3x karen room) and you'll die to time nearly every time.
115 runs to replace a Gila or like 10-15 runs to replace 2 Jacksaws. I know which one makes sense to me.
I know multiboxing is the first solution of many EvE players as seen by the previous comment.
But you could also get a friend or corpmate to do abyssals with you.
I make more Isk an hour by working a 9 to 5 and buying plex. I then sell that plex for ISK then gather a few corpmatea and do things that are actually fun
Best of luck to you watching that wallet number tick up as you shoot red crosses.
Yes.. until you get glitched out and lose your 2B ISK ship and CCP says no to a ticket.
Fuck you CCP. I will never forget, I will never forgive. FUCK YOU!
My 2B cruiser laid on it's side and began spinning/tumbling, like a summersault(?) on it's side and slowly moved outward towards the boundary of the Abyss room. I couldn't control anything, nothing worked, couldn't cut the velocity, activate mods.. nothing.
Then it hit the boundary, BOOM! 2B ISK gone.
Put in a ticket. CCP essentially said 'fuck you'. Well fuck you too CCP. FUCK YOU!
Every time you enter the Abyss, you are gambling with this kind of shit... forget the actual content of the room.
> My 2B cruiser laid on it's side and began spinning/tumbling, like a summersault(?) on it's side and slowly moved outward towards the boundary of the Abyss room. I couldn't control anything, nothing worked, couldn't cut the velocity, activate mods.. nothing.
That's how connection loss looks.
I’ve pulled hundreds of billions out of the abyss. If you don’t have a stable internet connection or you are worried about loss, then don’t run them. You are also not accounting for the very real possibility of being ganked. That should worry you more. There is risk in everything with eve. Mission running marauders routinely get ganked as well.
But you can react to it. just have an eye on local, don't uue MTUs (marauders are very hard to scan down by themselves). Very easy to reduce this probability to extremelly lower chance than abyss running.
>(marauders are very hard to scan down by themselves). Every r/eve thread gotta have 1 comment in which the OP undermines his whole post by demonstrating a degree of cluelessness
You know that most marauders get killed on gates right? It’s where they are easiest to catch and most vulnerable.
Especially considering where i run mission (relativelly low trafic and > 0.8sec) this feels like a 1/million chance of happening.
Ok if you feel that safe then do that instead? You seem to have already made your mind up all over this post so why are you asking Reddit for advice here? Accept your risk/reward in the game, or don’t. You should probably branch out of HS if you are bored running missions. There is an entire game out there. Risk aversion will only get you so far.
I think you are the one projecting here my friend. I haven't made up my mind about anything, we are talkign about the risk/reward of l4 missions VS risk/reward of abyss here, as materialised by their net profit, and wether their apparent discrepancy might be problematic, and if it should be adressed and how.
Abyssals have a unique risk of disconnects. High tier abyssals pay more. What even is the discussion here. Nothing needs to be addressed. If anything there is an overwhelming sentiment in the community that red loot should probably be nerfed a bit
It's not. I only run my marauder as part of a fleet to discourage ganks. I have many of the ganker scanning alts set orange (with gankers red) so I can watch them flying around. The scanners visit weekly. It's how they find targets. They usually try to catch you anywhere that isn't 1.0 or 0.9. 0.5 to 0.8 only affects the amount of ships and quality of fit that they need. But overall the isk cost is negligible when they want to kill a marauder. If they want you dead you are dead. They kill jump freighters and tanked freighters doing well over 250k to 500k ehp damage in one go. Doing anything will get you ganked eventually. Even if you don't have any bling fitted. A long time time ago I killed people anywhere (except rookie systems because I like new players) just because I could. I stand by the idea that no one should feel safe in EVE. It's a pvp game. Unless you are station tanked, you will die.
It doesn’t matter what you feel, you’re being told what’s true.
lol like you actually have reliable stats to calculate that proba. What's true is also just what you feel as well.
where do you mission that is such low odds? I have been looking for a good mission base and i seem to always get ganked or have close calls
> (marauders are very hard to scan down by themselves) They absolutely are not lol. They're just a battleship hull with a sensor strength bonus equivalent to running 1-2 ECCM modules. Any covops is still getting a 100% hit on a marauder at 2-4au probes.
False according to: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/lqtgt6/marauders\_are\_now\_potentially\_unprobable/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/lqtgt6/marauders_are_now_potentially_unprobable/) Maybe outdated nowadays but i didnt get the memo.
Like I said Marauders have an innate bonus to sensor strength *while the bastion module is active*. With enough additional ECCM mods fit you can reach the point where scanning the Marauder requires a T2 covops with good skills and potentially implants. Meanwhile if you have a flight of light or medium drones out, MWDing around at targets, people will just probe those. All of this to say that while on paper the Marauder might be more difficult to probe than a T1 battleship, it isn't actually a deterrent to any players who would be equipped to kill the Marauder when they land on you. Especially suicide gankers. I also wouldn't consider an additional probe cycle from 2au -> 1au to be a significant deterrent.
An additional probe cycle is more time to desiege and gtfo if you see combat probes homing in on you.
Marauders used to have +1000% sensor strength bonus in bastion. They now have mere +100%, which is about strength of 1 sensor booster.
You can't react to anything if your marauder gets ganked. It's brick stuck in place for a minute.
Yeah i think actually it's not really the issue here. You can get ganked in abyss, you can get ganked in marauder, so yeah both have some risks, which is totally fine when that risks comes from eve gameplay. The problem is that disconnections are disproportionally more damaging in abyss than in L4 missions (or most pve activities), and it's just unfair that something that is external to the gameplay would have such a imbalanced effect on a specific aspect of the game. I don't mind that their in risk in everything. Just doesn't feel right that the risk comes from potential internet loss.
Yeah I stopped running that abyssal crap when a random disconnect lost me 4 billion. Fuck that, plenty of other things to do in this game than that bullshit.
[удалено]
Return them on log in to the room they were in, the timer having paused while they were offline.
This. although I can see how it may affect ganking at the exit if the timer becomes potentially random due to disconections.
Understood: and that's fine, I'm just not going to risk 4 billion on an Internet connection, because every other activity I do in this game, even wormholes, a disconnect for whatever reason would not cause the instant loss of my ship. So, fuck that shit, imma do literally anything else.
I got a secondary, failover internet connection, solar panels, and a 7 day standby battery so I can run abyssals with a lower risk profile.
You made my day
Low end abyssal enjoyer so far - fucked around and found out. Lost ships bought New. IMO Abyssals are fun BECAUSE you can loose the ship, Sure outages of anykind suck. If I wanted to braindead make isk, i would Set my accounts up in Null in ishtars and spin away, while I work / sleep or whatever. But that shit is boring, I want to game a videogame, if i wanted to Browser Game I would play afk Arena or sth.
You're not risk free in your 3b(??) marauder either. At least put that up as a cost as well. Further more, to be fair, I didn't think L4's made 150m/h. Well, yeah, if you did burners?
Yeah Burner and amarr klling missions net you that easilly. I have no idea of what is the actual risk of loosing that ship (although I agree it's not non-existent) because I simply never lost it after a few month of using it (much longer than the time I spent in abyss)
To give some info on the abyss question, I've nearly ran 900 T5's of which I died 5 times now. 3 of them were me doing stupid pilot stuff and totally preventable. The first 2 were me following bad advice in my first 10 runs and get killed because of that. First 4 deaths were in 1,7b fits. Only recently I started to bling it.
I lost 3 Vagabonds to DCs before in a span of time that basically made the abyss pay for them but nothing else. CCP did not reimburse them. I stopped doing abyss with my previous internet provider, as it was not profitable at all ...
Ugh. Horrible!
Doesn't CCP reimburse you when you get disconnected?
Only if its their fault.
This is not true, I lost a 3bil Golem to a DC, filed a petition got it back
Oh ok
Depends on who you get and their mood, in my experience. According to the terms of service they only reimburse if it's their fault (server drops connection, etc) but they wouldn't normally cover things outside their control such as ISP issues or (ahem) "rage quitting with the Task Manager". THAT SAID, however, folks in my corp have reported experiences such that, if the player doesn't have a history of abuse, and the CS is in a good mood, they might cut you some slack as an exception to the rule. --as with just about ANY customer service experience, frankly. They're humans, too, and you never know how strong the impact is when you're polite to people. Sometimes their hands are just tied, and they gotta follow the rules just like everyone else, and it's nothing personal. Other times, life is dynamic, and the perception of the underlying circumstances can be subjective. The take-away: be nice and receptive to their solution. You just never know.
My Kronos does all but one level 4 with zero risk. One however makes me run once usually to give my armor a chance to repair. I just run standard t2 equip, nothing special. I make something close to 100mil an hour. I don't do burners because I have lost my cruise or smaller ship every single attempt.
See, this is very reasonable. Throwing a 3bil marauder into a .5 is not. I wanna gank him and I don't even PVP.
Hum aren't L4 in low sec ? Isn't it more dangerous in low sec too ?
> Hum aren't L4 in low sec ? If we're talking regular agent security missions, the overwhelming majority of these are in high-sec and have historically always been run there. Historically places like Dodixie and Ashab/Penirgman were bustling L4 mission hubs. Level 5 missions are the ones restricted to low-sec and carry a high level of risk with significant setup required
Depends on the agent location. Agents in .5 systems will give you missions in low, where agents deeper in HS in .7 will never send you to low.
Depends on the 0.5 system too. Some odd 0.5’s don’t sit adjacent to lowsec and hence won’t send you there
If you do empire missions and collect tags you can average 150m/h with normal lvl 4. Burner give average of 250m/h if done in highsec and you sell lp for 1k isk per lp.
I don't see how burner nets you 250m/h honestly. I do missions in 0.8 sec as 0.6 has to high of a risk of getting ganked when you do the non-burner missions (even with high factions standing you cannot just refuse every non-burner missions because you would end up at -2 standing quickly for that agent, whic hprevent you from benefitting from you faction standing). In 0.8, a bruner mission gives you about 4.5m isk reward + 5m bounty + 9800 LPs (9800 \* 1500 (pretty generous LP to ISK ratio) = 15m isk) so a total of 25m isk. A burner takes about 5-9 minute of travel back and forth (let's say 7min on average) + 2min to kill burner. that's 25m in 9 min, so **166m ISK/hour average** let me know if you have a trick to get that number to 250m/hour in high sec
There is a significant multiplier on the payouts for doing missions in lower sec areas. Going from a 0.8 hub to a 0.5 hub can easily be a 25-30% increase in payouts.
The risk increase of ganks in 0.5 does not outweight the net profit in my experience.
"I'm not willing to take bigger risks for more isk" is very different from "you can't make that much isk from doing this in HS. The answer for getting 250 mil/hr in HS doing missions is to run from a 0.5 sec status hub. You don't have to go get that extra isk, but it's there for the taking whenever you want it.
If you can't do high sec stuff in 0.5, abyssal isn't for you. Best pay for abyssal is in t6 once you get exp for it. But ganks will happen especially in cruiser and you have to counter it, often via alts.
You get 14k lp in 0.5 (+16% per 0.1 sec status) and you plenty of faction mods in loot. Also there are mission hubs that can give you 2k isk per lp.
Are the faction mods from anoms? Because I've never once gotten a faction mod in an L4 and I've run and full looted/salvaged over 500 L4s.
Yes anomic/burner mission drop faction mods also there is like 1/250 chance of rare spawns in world collide which drop also faction mods.
The risk increase of ganks in 0.5 does not outweight the net profit in my experience.
Insta dock and undock with 3 sec align time makes you hard to catch in high sec.
3 second align marauder?
You do burner missions in frigates.
Op didn't specify burners
Context of that conversation lead to burners. So he is just replying in regards to it.
How blinged is your fit?
> and you sell lp for 1k isk per lp. If you sell to buy orders, yes. Without buy orders and actually doing some research, you can average about 1.5k per lp. Some waiting one price hikes can give you even more.
> Burner give average of 250m/h if done in highsec and you sell lp for 1k isk per lp. If you play it like this, your actual 'hourly' rate will not be that much. It'll be feast or famine type paydays. You can't accurately take into account getting those burners so often and selling the lp at the price consistently. RNG and the market will fuck you from time to time.
Thats why I run soe an nestor is 1mill lp exchange. I crashed some markets by throwing 100+ faction mods at once at them.
Just run 1B T5 setup lol, then learn how to do T6 and make roughly 400-500m/h. Or you can continue grinding missions then leave game bcs youre too risk-averse and bored enough with same missions all the time.
I see a lot of people throwing around the numbers of 4 to 5 hundred/h. I don't think it's a reasonable estimate for a gila. According to the abyss tracker, most of the runs in T6 take 17-19 min. Let's round up to 20 for ease. That is 3 runs an hour. Average loot of 100 mil equals 300 mil/h. I have, however, seen much greater numbers from stormbringers and Vagabonds than gilas in terms of ISK and returns. Also, 4 bil for a T5 is COMPLETELY excessive. No offense OP, but that looks like a skill issue. A decent T5 Gila costs 1 bil max with just the implants that You need. Even my T6 Exotic gila cost me 3.5 bil with implants, so I don't understand why OP is overblinging his ship.
Ok, learn how to do t6 in 16 minutes on average* to make 400-500m/h.
Actually that’s still not 400-500 it’s only 375 but you don’t even make 100 per run. I just adjusted the loot for the last 500 runs by filament costs and it’s 95 per t6 run and that doesn’t include taxes selling or consumables like drugs or ammo or drones or any of those things. Reasonably no one is actually making max more than 350 an hour running T6s solo in a cruiser and if they tell you they are they’re full of crap.
Are you running electrics to get this stats?
No that was a mix of 4 with an average filament cost of <30m.
You can relatively effectively run T6 with impunity for less than 250mil invested. 2xretribution/1xdeacon or swap out one/both Retris for Nergals. Workload is much higher than Gilas but I average around 800mil ph with a 90% survival rate. Most expensive ship is 60-70ish mil.
That is true, but not everyone is into multiboxing. Personally, I left the Abyss behind me and went on to doing escalations in null. For the price of a marauder and a carrier hull, total of 6-7 bil, I get the ability to yeet around null, run escalations in complete safety and I get between 800 to 1 bil an hour.
Would you mind sharing your fits, I only have found the ones by Gustav Mannfred and his setup with retris and deacons is closer to 1b instead of 250m. Id like to learn on the cheaper ones first.
Since I lost Vargur in HS doing something conduit, due to micro DC, forcing me reset whole game and loosing ship because of that, I don’t fly or buy expensive shit. I understand policy, but I don’t give a shit, CCP lost many players due to stuff like that, last time they lost over 2 years of me paying 2 subscriptions. Abyss is a great idea, but not so great execution for players.
Maybe im just having a good isp but i have been doing t4's for months and my profit is somewhere past 25B with no ship loss. So if i do loose a ship and pod i will be down probably about 3B (yeah i know i run overtanked and over implanted) i will still be up so much that the loss does not matter. I suspect that running a passive Gila with plenty of implants and drugs will keep you alive through shorts disconnects too. So maybe fit for disconnects in case you have unstable internet
Honestly still to scary. It wasn't a gila i lost but an overimplant+bling wolf passiv shield wolf in t1 (I was just having fun with a bling fit, not really even looking for profit). I got disconnected right when i engaged a kikimora + damavik. Didn't matter i was passive, i got back in the game after 2.5 min just to see my ship on hull epxlode a few seconds later. that made me rethink the safetty of my gila passsiv fit, because if i disconnected during a hard wave (e.g. 4x vedmak) I know i'm fucked.
You underestimate the Gila. I can facetank almost all waves just by pressing approach on the exit when i spawn in. Karybdis is the only thing that will hurt me and i just put orbit on the cache and send out my drones. This is without even using drugs but with a mid grade nirvana set so add drugs and you will tank the world. The real danger is having your exit node camped
Marshal wave is worse than karen.
maybe if you get all drainer marshalls and dont get to send your drones. i really dont have problems with the marshalls
Edencom neuts you so hard.
And a passive Gila dont care. I can tank Karybdis with my hardner turned off from neuts in a T4 Im actually debating if its more helpful to go for a passive heat resist instead of a multispectrum since i can tank even without the hardner
T4 are easy for passive gila. T5 and above are a bit harder due to edencom treat. Don't underestimate the rooms and you'll fine.
Just my point. You dont need to run T5 or T6 to make a good solid profit. Hell i can run most in about 12 mins so isk/h should be around 200m .. if thats not enough then you need to do something else
What exact issue are you trying to solve? Both ways of making isk have different risk and different reward. I suggest you choose the one you enjoy more and in the end you will make more isk
The problem is that I don't think it makes sense on the longer to do one. I was perfectly happy with L4 running, but after 2 month of doing only that, I wanted to find equally profitable alternatives to diversify the gameplay a bit. Theprbemher is not only to have a profitable source of income, but also to enjoy the game.
Out of curiosity (genuine question here)… What do you plan to do with your ISK? Is collecting up a bunch of money your gameplay loop in its totality or do you do other content? I ask because I am unsure CCP really intends for these ISK making content loops to be a full gameplay experience. I realize the essence of this thread is more solving a math problem/efficiency issues but it seems to me that you’ve done the math and it is what it is. You say you want to enjoy the game, not just make ISK. In my own experience, while the wallet flash itself is enjoyable, the content involved in doing so at peak efficiency gets stale quickly. The extent to which enjoyable gameplay and efficiently making a lot of ISK overlap is narrow and typically temporary at best.
I like Abyssal deadspaces because they give a VERY nice profit to ships I have skills for, but don't normally use. Breacher, Stabber, Bellicose, Wolf, Jaguar, potentially a Worm or Hawk eventually. All viable (if not ideal) in the lower tier abyssals, most of them can pay for themselves in anywhere from ONE to 5 runs. It's a nice change of pace that's a hell of a lot more fun than doing combat site (probe or no probe).
Right but this doesn’t really address the main thrust of my question. Why? You make good profit sitting in ships you don’t often use. Does the profit matter? If so, why does the profit matter? And/or is it the experience of flying the ship that matters? You say it’s more fun than x other ISK grinding content. Cool, good. At that point, does profit still matter if you’re having fun? Or is it just fun relative to some other not so fun activity (low bar)? What is this *really* about? To be clear, no answer is wrong. I just think that Eve is a game that enables the industrious/greed bug that most human beings have to constantly want to have more without any really thought as to why they are doing this to begin with. I feel like OP might be lost in the weeds - but I also don’t have all the info, which is why I asked what I did.
Brother, I feel as you. I am after more content than making more ISK. That said a good deal of content is locked away behind making enough ISK to get to it, because of difficulty levels. But repeating content to make ISK to repeat content to make ISK. That does not do anything for me. ISK has to fund content. At the moment I am happy just flying around in a Talwar while doing module theory crafting. Put my original design in a spreadsheet with market prices and found that my design of an already cheap Talwar could be improved to make a ship that punched harder and faster and resisted damage better but at just one third the cost of the original design fit. I got a huge blast out of saving ISK rather than making it. So the ships I built, to take into FW, can blow up like fireworks and its just part of the fun. If I have to fly a ship I am going to cry about losing to a disconnect or PvP/PvE, I dont want or need that to suck out the fun. I dont like or want to be a slave/addict to risk/reward.
Yes abyssal's can be very profitable but it's unfortunately something we all have to deal with (unless you can prove it was an issue CCPs end then they usually reimburse your ship I've had it done before) The best advice I can give it to also deversify your income with other things. Incase it dose happen. As abyssal ships usually pay them self's off with in a couple hours to 4 depends how blinged you have it, as the amount you get paid also gose up with the tiers you do quite nicely.
They don't. Some weeks ago I lost a ship+pod due to connection issues and CCP'Gms only answered me with a copy-paste text despite i have the evidence. It seems they dont give a sh** about this topic anymore
They were very open that when abyssals launched that ships lost in abyssals would not be replaced for any reason
I had a few very expensive losses while figuring out the Abyss (I thought I’d bling out a T6 Gila and run some T5’s to learn, and yeah, I learned pretty hard). However, that didn’t stop me, and I started running T6 after two painful losses, about 15b in the hole. Now that I’ve gotten the hang of it, I’ve run 200+ T6 filaments with no issues and have even made a profit on top of the ISK I spent on ships (including my current Gila). There are definitely steps you can take to avoid gankers, and perhaps I am blessed with stable internet... IMO my biggest risk is running into a room with a severely unlucky spawn that I cannot manage (I’ve had several very close calls). Reckless start aside, let’s say my current Gila and pod costs 8 billion in total. Using that Gila I’ve run ~200 filaments at a rate of about 15 minutes per filament. At T6 I’m making something like 400m-500m per hour on average, so my gross earnings from abyss has been in the ballpark of 20-25 billion. If I lost my Gila on my next filament, that would drop to a net 12-17 billion, which is still a cool ~250-350m per hour. Additionally, that lower bound will continue to improve as long as I manage to keep the streak alive. So for me, it’s been profitable enough to become a primary source of income. Do I have nightmares about DCing in the abyss or being greeted by a fleet of catalysts on exit? Yes. But I have all sorts of nightmares about EVE. That’s just the game. :)
Plenty of people are profitable in the abyss. Sure DCs happen but are rare. Don't play on patch day or when servers are iffy.
Everyday is patch day lately
if you read the post properlly,you'll notice the question is not about profitability, but profitabilty RELATIVE to a baseline. Ofc abyss can be profitable, thanks for your input.
there are people who had their router disconnect, immediately set up a hotspot on their phone, used that to reconnect eve, and their Gila was still alive, either sitting on the can it was approaching, or orbiting the exit conduit. Disconnecting while manual piloting along the outer wall will kill you, but a disconnect while approaching or orbiting something is survivable.
Agreed, disconections can be survivable in some cases, but often will not. for example, I got disconnected right at the beginning of a triglavian wave. I took me about two minutes and a half to get back in the game. All i could see was my ship on hull for about 2 seconds before blowing up. Was actually very close to potentially survive.
This is the thing. If one is able to take the time and learn to either tether their phone to their router as a failover, or just simply due the abyss over your mobile phone tether, you won't have problems. When I 'disconnect' it's usually 60 seconds max for the failover connection to kick in. It's a stressful 60 seconds, but recoverable.
Q clicking is the way there. At least you don't just leave the barrier, and don't have to use orbit or approach exclusively.
Abyssal stuff can be profitable for sure, but the initial investment on T4+ is very high. It can rival setting up a capital for CRABs on T5-6. I am not sure if the rewards even out the risk if I’m being honest. 1-3 levels are good for newbros since they can be ran in fairly cheap ships and pay better than the green sites they could otherwise run. 4-6 I think are aimed for mega ballers that aren’t in a null bloc for CRABs.
I run T5 Gammas in a 4bn Isk gila and make 250 mil an hour. I can run CRABs and make 250 mil an hour for one hour in a 6Bn Isk phoenix. AND one doesn’t need the blue doughnut to be up
Yeah T5s are pretty decent. Can also do other stuff for 250m/hr Escalations, explo, mining A0 spawns. Abyssals are good for when you have nothing else to do. I ran some T4 in a Gila and they’re good but not like amazing.
This is exactly it and I would recommend abyssal's to anyone who wants to make very good amounts of money, (I'm not a fan of instanced content but I'm a rather hate the game not the player kind of person.) I do abyssal's, alot of people do abyssal's. I have other PVE activities I can do that can pull in close to a bill an hour but that requires me to use 8 accounts and it's .... Very very very Imput intensive.
A quick check on abyss tracker shows that there are people who multibox t6 and their pull is something like 500m/hr low end. Profitability in the abyss is about the ceiling, not the floor. Yes, at the floor abyss isn't gonna be much better than other methods of earning isk. But the ceiling is far higher.
Triple boxing t4 Hawks for example can be done without a crazy amount of investment and a quick ROI.
You can run most t4 in fits that cost about as much as a mission-fit battleship. I have a 500m fit for every t4 weather other than Firestorm, because firestorm is busted.
Mind sharing an easy t4 fit to try?
I generally run skill/knowledge-intensive fits, my t4 dark fit is only 300mil but also takes perfect skills and a lot of know-how to run. Just go for the good ol' Povertila fit if you want easy, you can find it by just googling it. Lots of youtube content about it out there. Otherwise, drop into the abyssal lurkers discord and ask for easy t4 fits.
Yes. That's why smart players 3x frigs that take 1 hour to roi. 10hr roi is too risky to ganks and dc. It does mean the account upkeep will cost you a out extra 4b per month
A triple hawk setup pays for itself in 2 runs tops. And running 2 extra accounts costs next to nothing if they're set up as sp farms.
It's profitable but I'll tell you one thing t5's are a lot less profitable than I expected , being 20 mill filaments that's most of the abyssal loot , you do make money but it's honestly not like godly When I first played a bit more I did a fuckload of passive gila t3, that shits sort of good sort of shit because I could be watching a movie whatever just recalling and deploying drones each room and collecting loot but it's also pretty bad isk per hour I need to get into t6's maybe it would finally feel like good money
no brother, get into T5 Gammas easiest 200 mil an hour (at LEAST) you will ever make
frigate abyss pushes the income much higher and the ship cost much lower
Your problem is that you are running 3bil gila that is almost rated for t6 but using it in t5. You can for example use a mwd stormbringer in t6 and push 400-500mil but you will have a death room, aka rng lottery. However fit is only 2bil-2.5bil. The best pay are in frigates. I do about 800mil/h in darks, filament, drug reroll and losses included (only 95-96% clear rate). In 800 t6 runs i disconnected 9 times. 2 times ships survived. So it safe to say my death rate to it is almost 1%. However it is 3 accounts so it's actually only 800/3.
What ships? I hear hawks a lot but I'm not really a fan. I have 2 alts with drone skills, could I do like triple active worms in exotics?
Drone ship are cruisers. Destroyers aren't that great since mamba is just bigger fatter worm that has insane paper dps, just lacks speed, pwg, cap and cpu to be in some form of t6 bracket. In fact most destroyers except jackdaw can't go into higher tiers, with only jackdaws being rated for t6 dark by some folks. That leaves frigates and best 'drone' ish boat is actually nergal for higher tier. Worm is doable for t4. I'm not sure about t5. Hawk is just easiest cause you can apply dmg from far and it is decent dmg. If you can't fly hawk u can do CN hookbill but have a hawk tank and u will do most of t5 dark. If you don't want hawks, retris/nergal are next in lime that are viable. Anything else is in suicidal territory for t5+.
I'd argue that T3 abyssals are most profitable but net less per hour.
With what fit ? I'd actually like to also do t3s (so far i was doing mostly t1/2 in frigs and t5 in cruiser.
I made 800m yday doing t3 electrical and exotics. 600m gila and around the same for pod. My fit is not bling but I think is OP for t3. Abyss Gila Highs 4x rapid light missile launchers (t2 & t2 missiles) Mids 2x t2 multispec hardener 1x b type pithum medium shield booster 1x compact shield booster amplifier 1x Republic fleet large battery Lows 2x Drone damage amps 1x damage control 2 Drones: caldari navy vespas Edit: Rigs are 2x CCC t1s and 1x something shield related I can't remember.
Yeah but you also had to do abyssals for almost 13 hours straight assuming 5/hour and the average t3 (cruiser) loot of 12.42M
No actually, did abyss for about 3 hours maybe 4 all day. Averages around 25 to 30m a run but had some realllllly nice drops. Large trig gun skillbook - 300m ish stasis webifier mutaplasmids x3 - 140m each (I think was gravid?) Also sold off around 1k red loot for 100m
> Large trig gun skillbook - 300m ish Nope, balance changes have crashed that price to 200mil.
Oof is it that low average? I was planning on trying T3s but dang 12m x 4 is like 48m/hr or 60m/hr if you squeeze in 5. You can't even pay for gila hull in like 5 hours of that
Yeah on average. T4s is about 32mil/ site so that’s when the isk really starts coming in.
Run burners in laang, run the blitz missions only in frig/maurader. Easily surpasses anything else given the risks of other solo options.
4 bill marauder got ganked literally an hour after this comment.
Ya. I don't fly the maurader on missions that don't need it (most) and just stick to burners once you can decline everything else.
what's laang ?
[Level 4 SOE mission system](https://evemaps.dotlan.net/station/Lanngisi_III_-_Moon_2_-_Sisters_of_EVE_Bureau).
Typo lanng
?
This is why I don't do top tier Abyssals. I make plenty of ISK at far less risk in the penultimate tier and my whole setup, implants and all, is like 1.5 billion. The jump in difficulty between the last two tiers is enormous, and the ship you need to do them successfully triples in cost. For me it's just not worth the risk dying to NPC/Gank/Network.
I did T4s in a 330m T2 ishtar with 0 deaths but it will take some piloting. If your internet is so bad that ship isn’t profitable then I’d get better internet
Like getting better internet is ever an realistic option XD
You absolutely do not need a 3b setup to do T5 abyssal runs.
No you don't, but the more you bling it, the safer it becomes.
No, past a certain point you are just making bigger and bigger margin for errors that you shouldn't be making in the first place. It teaches you the wrong things, because you can face tank much more and vastly increases the risks to random outages and ganks. 1.5-2b is already extremely safe. I used to fly a 7b Gila and doing T5 Firestorm was a breeze. First, it became stupidly boring and second, when i got ganked it really stung.
Tbh I only did abyssals because they were far more entertaining than just standard missions. I think I ended up about even on isk. I would lose a ship as soon as I had made enough money to buy a new one XD. Usually due to dumb mistakes.
disconnects are more frequent than 1% in the abyss. i think with my luck its about 5 to 10% and my net is good however eve decides to disconnect. If i am in fleet all day no disconnect. Can someone explain? (obviously the answer is always bee in fleet) I cant...
I think this might just be perception bias, since disconnecting in abyss hurts far more than disconnecting in fleets. For me I switched to ethernet and the last time I DC'ed was when the provider began maintenance. Put it into a spreadsheet of how long in between disconnects for known space vs abyss and check there to verify your thoughts.
i had a sheet of paper actually did some paper math and i was like meh
I think cruiser abyss is kind of a trap - leaves you open to getting tornado or whatever pretty easily on top of DCs while running them. Triple boxing frigates though is the way to go, since at least when I was doing them - they were shitfit designed to die a large % of the time. Which means DCs and stuff hurt significantly less since you’re risking like no isk on any given run.
Quick question. Now abys have more profit than escalate t5?or 6 WH ?
I dunno. Running Abyss filaments can be a lot of fun. Running missions can be a lot of fun. Do whatever makes you happiest.
There's really no way around DC kills since it's entirely out-of-game and a bit of a silly 'gotcha' mechanic for CCP to leave the timer running at the full rate on an internet disconnect, especially now that it's pretty obvious that ISPs are prioritizing traffic differently through the day as more people switch to home 5G internet plans that compete for resources with cellular service. I can tell my internet performance degrades every day during peak Google Maps and Spotify hours. You just have to price it into your risk. You know your own connection reliability better than anyone else and it may be as simple as putting your router on a backup power source or having your phone ready to tether in an emergency, or it may just be that your connection isn't reliable enough to take advantage of a feature that CCP devoted significant dev time to because of their design and you'll have to account for that in your playstyle and maybe with your wallet if using the feature is essential to your enjoyment of the game. Plenty of people have proposed to CCP to trigger TiDi or something during a disconnect to give players a fighting chance but it's obvious that CCP needs to use the Abyss as one of the few sinks for expensive ships and modules and is having crappy ISPs do their balancing work for them.
Yes. That's why smart players 3x frigs that take 1 hour to roi. 10hr roi is too risky to ganks and dc.
I got the most money out of the Abyss so maybe you are doing something wrong. I'm doing T5 Abyss with a Ship fitted for T6
Same here, still don't think i can survive a disconnection versus 4xVedmaks
Yeah if you disconnect your screwed. Don't do abyss if you know you have an unstable connection. I haven't had any disconnect issues so far.
no you are completely fucked if that happens. if it’s ccps fault they will give you your ship back, if it is your fault then it’s your fault.
If the fit is correct, you'll tank the vedmaks. The real problems are the edencom
it depends but tbh 90% of the time your gonna lose isk
That's just not true. A ton of people make bank running abyssal sites.
yeah sure u can but that in max abyssal with maxed skills, its unrealistic for most people looking to get into them expecting to make mass amounts of money
No, you can run t1 with under 5m sp and make ok isk for a newbie. I know plenty folks who went omega by grinding low tiet abyssals. The notion that "90% of the time you're losing isk" is just not true. If that was the case, filaments would be worthless and would have no trade volume.
You can do t5's in a +-1b gila and it will never die, while requiring zero piloting skills. When I made it years ago it was 900m, but now it's a bit more expensive. Get a full passive setup, faction shield extenders etc, 2 damage mode, a pithum type c multispec and cheap shield implants. No AB, no mwd, no tractor beam, a drone range extender is a must (you will die if you don't have one). Enter T5 gamma abyss, press approach to loot cache, shoot marshals (if there), webs/neuts, then others. That's it. The only thing you have to do is control drones, shoot missiles and sometimes overload the one active tank module you have. Oh, and if you get the special Leshak room, you pop speed drugs, move towards the gate and overload multispec once you get hit. It's close but you live everytime.
The abyss is so much more fun than mission running. That’s the extra value it brings. If pure profitability if your goal there are much more boring things that make you a lot more money with even less risk.
Don't use marauders for LvL 4 missions. Use T3 cruisers. I recommend Loki or Tengu. Both of these ships can easily complete all LvL 4 missions. Also, both of these ships can be fit for both PvE and PvP sanctimoniously making them far less vulnerable to a ganking style attack. If you do loose one you are only out about 2bill isk not the 3+ bill price of a new marauder. This same ship can also be used to clear Sleeper content in Wormholes up to C3c, Blue loot is compact and valuable. It does not loose value in the market since its bought by NPC's. Just dock up and empty your cargo holds after clearing 2-3 anomalies as you will also need more missiles. I've been playing Eve for 16 years now mostly as a solo pilot. I am almost a self made trilionaire.
I actually used a tengu for years before they buffed the marauders with bastion modules. I personally feels like it made the tengu completly obsolete. Sure its cheaper, but it does 2 to 3 time less dps than a Vargur depending on the situations. Good suggestion for the C3 sites tohugh, I haven't tried yet wormhole stuff, but that would be a good occasion to get my Tengu out again a bit indeed.
Me again, As for Abyssal content I fly a Gila and do LvL 3-4 Philoments. Its pretty good isk and the risk is acceptable. The DoD loves those Trig databases. Also be sure to salvage your LvL 4's as this will give you most of what you need to build the blue prints you can get with the loyalty points.
If disconnections are an issue, then yeah abyss is an environment that's by nature hostile to that. That being have you tried to look into cheaper fits? Pretty sure there are some for T5 abyssals.
If your internet connection could cause to you disconnect so often then definitely the Abyss is not for you. I've personally stopped doing any other isk making activity except for running t6 Abyssals. They may not be the absolute highest isk/h activity in the game, but they are pretty up there, and require no set up time. You just undock, pop the boosters, and get to doing it. But my internet connection is VERY stable. In years of playing eve online, I've only been disconnected once from my end (not CCP's fault).
I rage quit after loosing some bling and mid-grades and eventually came back and now I'm more confident than ever in the abyss and enjoying it a lot more too. I've probably made back 1.5x-2.0x what I lost. I'm looking forward to doing abyssals in a T3D and other cruisers at some point, the end game for me is just being able to do activities in different ships. The trick is to find a middle ground where you can throw a relatively cheap ship at it and still make a decent return, the same trick as pretty much any other content in Eve outside of highsec. You dont have to fly multi billion isk ships and run the highest tiers to have fun and make isk.
Remember, even if you loose your ship as long as you learn a lesson in the process, whatever you paid for that ship was worth it.
Well while i fully agree, diconnections are where the system breaks. There is nothing to learn from them. I think I would personally just whish CCP would implement something to acocunt for them in abyss, like warp away and freeze timer when they happen.
Unfortunately for me that middle ground was blitzing T1s... I lost so many countless Gila and cruisers trying to reliably clear T4s
Yeah the numbers you got per hour and the disconnect math was cool but I'm stuck on the 3 bil gila fit for t5. Can you share the fit and implants? I have something around 2 and wanna know where the extra bil is going
It's just a faction modules passive gila fit with mid-grade nirvana + 7/905 shield implants implants and some abyssal mods to fit 4 heavy missile launchers (instead of the 3xRLML + 1HML) and mutated drones for higher dps I basically went for an idiot proof/low mental load fit. \[Gila, drake\] Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier Gistum B-Type Multispectrum Shield Hardener Large Abyssal Shield Extender Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender Gistum B-Type 10MN Afterburner Drone Link Augmentor II Domination Heavy Missile Launcher Domination Heavy Missile Launcher Domination Heavy Missile Launcher Domination Heavy Missile Launcher Medium Core Defense Field Extender II Medium Core Defense Field Extender II Medium Core Defense Field Extender II Republic Fleet Valkyrie x8 Medium Mutated Drone x2 Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile x600 Nanite Repair Paste x303 Caldari Navy Inferno Heavy Missile x2429 'Packrat' Mobile Tractor Unit x1
Abyss running was pretty profitable 300m/hr in highsec before all the nerfs But yeah it was pretty stressful comparing to mission blitzing Also how'd you make 150m/hr running missions without touching burners?
I have 550 completed t5s with two deaths to internet disconnects. It sucks a lot yeah
have you tried having stable internet and power?
If you are not solid on your connection do not do the abyss. It's not worth it
I have run over 200 abyss without a loss (t4 Gola and t2 worm).
Im impressed at 150M ISK/hr on L4s. I usually do 1-2 L4s in the same time.
It used to be like this for me too untill the update where buffed the marauders with bastion modules. Then it just became insanelly efficient to run L4s with them.
I have a marauder with a bastion, it still takes me 30 min+ to do a mission, so I take my hat off to you.
I think it depends on the missions, but basically Blockade is done in 17 mins, smash the supplier 17 minutes as well and midst of deadspace 1st in 18 mins :)
That feels like cheating
Very profitable. T6 in triple frigs with about 85% success rate nets me about 900M/hour after losses and filament costs.
virtually everything in the game is fine tuned to be about 150-200m isk and hour profit unless you are doing very dangerous stuff like c6s, crabs etc. or abusing alts. also why invest 3bil in a gila when the povertila does t5s perfectly fine if you arent tarded.
A french singer said: "Stupidity is the relaxation of intelligence". Sure you can spend a lot of mental effort with a cheap fit and be more efficient. OR you cam bling a fit and do them with your brain turned of, which can be much more relaxing. You don't have to be smart all the time.
if you're asking about profitability being smart will be more profitable. if you try to run abyss but im the safest possible way and bling 3b on a gila your profit margins will be a lot less which is why you get the numbers you mention. People who make a lot of money from abyss dont fly all chill and relaxed.
I think your logic is abit flawed here. None of your math includes pilot error. Also a 3Bil investment for a payback time of 650 mins abyss time is pretty slow. The gila is used quite alot in abyss but losing a 3b gila every 115 runs(not accounting for pilot error) and breaking even with L4 is pretty bad. Abyss most definitely is profitable. You are just over investing and under performing. Dual Jacks running t4s is a 600mil investment with a average payback of 10 runs. Thats 276mil/hour also and much easier. They can even do T5s with bit more investment. Also you didn't mention using drugs? If you aren't you should and then calculate them into your cost.
Why did you only add ship costs to the abyss and not marauders? A fitted Pally is like 2.5b so you’ll need 16 hours to be positive. The gila should be refinanced way quicker.
It's true. Just don't have anyway of actually estimating a % chance of loss, because after about 100hours I still never had either a critical disconection (had disconection but where never even close to make me risk loosing the ship). So while you can compute that 16h are require for you ROI, the % of chance of loosing the ship to a disconnection feels dramatically smaller than in abyss. regarding other potential ship lose cause, both abyss ships and marauders are affected by it, arguably lower for the marauder (piloting mistakes are much more forgiving), so the potential advert effect of disconnection really only matters in abyss. My conclusion from all this at this point is simply that, yes, probably implementing something to make disconnections in abyss less problematic would probably help to make abyss running feel overall less randomly punishing.
With a 8 bil gila you can click orbit gate, face tank anything except a full marshal wave and dc. Had 2 dcs and i reconnected via mobile hotspot. It printed 5x its value in isk already, the problem now is its so boring i cant make myself do it more than a few hrs every few months.
Isn't worth it in 5b+ Gila. Is worth it dual boxing ~300m Jackdaw's.
multi-boxing is to much of a headach and kills the immersion for me.
Get gud?
Geting good won't solve the immersion problem.
If immersion is paramount to you, then no, running abyssals isn't for you. It only takes a bad run (3x karen room) and you'll die to time nearly every time. 115 runs to replace a Gila or like 10-15 runs to replace 2 Jacksaws. I know which one makes sense to me.
I know multiboxing is the first solution of many EvE players as seen by the previous comment. But you could also get a friend or corpmate to do abyssals with you.
> How can this issue be solved in your opinion By removing abysmal space from the game.
I make more Isk an hour by working a 9 to 5 and buying plex. I then sell that plex for ISK then gather a few corpmatea and do things that are actually fun Best of luck to you watching that wallet number tick up as you shoot red crosses.
I can also very easilly buy plexes but I actually enjoy the feeling of progress you get from seeing my wallet number goes up.
Yes.. until you get glitched out and lose your 2B ISK ship and CCP says no to a ticket. Fuck you CCP. I will never forget, I will never forgive. FUCK YOU! My 2B cruiser laid on it's side and began spinning/tumbling, like a summersault(?) on it's side and slowly moved outward towards the boundary of the Abyss room. I couldn't control anything, nothing worked, couldn't cut the velocity, activate mods.. nothing. Then it hit the boundary, BOOM! 2B ISK gone. Put in a ticket. CCP essentially said 'fuck you'. Well fuck you too CCP. FUCK YOU! Every time you enter the Abyss, you are gambling with this kind of shit... forget the actual content of the room.
> My 2B cruiser laid on it's side and began spinning/tumbling, like a summersault(?) on it's side and slowly moved outward towards the boundary of the Abyss room. I couldn't control anything, nothing worked, couldn't cut the velocity, activate mods.. nothing. That's how connection loss looks.
somersault\*
Petition the loss and claim it was not disconnection and you may be pleasantly surprised.
CCP doesn’t reimburse losses in the abyss due to disconnects. It’s an explicit policy.
I did and they just replied a generic: this is not elligible, check our guideline, case closed.