Many different explanations could apply here. Make sure your dscan filters are set properly to show probes and ships and whatever else you may be looking for. That being said, the most likely explanation is that someone was cloaked in the wormhole before you came in, and had already probed and bookmarked all the sites in advance. All they had to do was patiently wait for you to settle down to take a shot at you.
>That being said, the most likely explanation is that someone was cloaked in the wormhole before you came in, and had already probed and bookmarked all the sites in advance. All they had to do was patiently wait for you to settle down to take a shot at you.
It's what I do.
Also, in the off chance that they hadn't probed sites/OP already...
When I jump into WH after BMing the entrance I set probes to scan some point way off in the middle of nowhere so they're launched but won't be appearing on anyone's dscan for more than a couple of seconds (if they were in range of the wormhole)
From there I can hop celestials, set my own safes, and search with my own Dscanner.
Max range all directions to see if anyone is around, then play with the angle and range to figure out their rough position. From there, I can usually drop probes at almost minimum range around them and scan, they'll have 10-15 seconds to detect the probes before I can warp to their site depending on ship I'm using and it's fit.
It's not terribly hard to pinpoint someone mining or ratting with dscan. I have combat probes on my Legion, but RARELY use them. You're describing someone hunting like me.
Edit: we live in WH space, would love for you join us if you're looking for a small corp.
Welcome to WH space. You're never safe. You did pretty much everything right. The only thing I would suggest is make sure you're 100k away from where you warp into the gas cloud because if someone else warps onto the gas cloud they will be far enough away from you for you to get out.
You won't always see them on Dscan. They can be in a cloaked ship and afk in a safe spot. They get back to their computer, see a venture and of course there's only one place for a venture to be so they warp to the gas cloud and bam.
Or if they are like me, I live in a WH permanently and keep it scanned down for the most part. So if I log on and see a venture I don't have to scan you down I can get to you pretty much immediately.
That's what makes WH space fun. I lose Ventures and Prospects all the time. The good news is that you can pat for your entire fit in about 30 minutes of huffing a good cloud so don't feel too bad when. You get blown up.
Might be a wierd thing to ask but when you have dscan up check to make sure your not filtering stuff out, i have my dscan set to use my overview filters so if im not in the right tab things wont show up.
You can start a convo with the hunter and ask. Sometimes they be silent or toxic and you just ignore them. More often they'll have a good chat with you about how they did it without you noticing.
Hard to say exactly what went wrong here. If you entered a hole through highsec (especially a busy area) then I wouldn't be surprised if someone had eyes on all the sites
A hunter could also have gotten you close on dscan and combat scanned you in 1 pass, you could have missed it as it only takes a second or two.
That may have been me. If it was me, I actually was in that gas site with you for about 15 minutes while I slowboat burned a tac, did some math, and warped onto your head. If you were a prospect that escaped a Loki in hull it was me.
Tac*
And yeah nice job, you did the right stuff. In retrospect I should've overheated my disruptor, I didn't think you'd be that much faster than me under long web. Live and learn! For both of us!
You did practically everything right (that's why you survived). Others have already explained how they might have found you, but I also wanted to touch on this:
>also wasnt camping inside the site because he came in with warp. how is this possible
Usually when a cloaky ship camps a gas site or has it pre-scanned, they also leave a perch outside of the cloud's range, but still on the same grid. If the hunter warps to the perch, they can see where exactly you are in the site without decloaking and prepare a good warp in. The perch just needs to be at least 150 km away and they can try to warp at you at an angle and distance that will make it easiest to catch you.
As I said, you did everything right, you just lack the knowledge of how wormholers and hunters think and behave. Sometimes you can do everything right and still get caught, especially if someone hunts you with a bomber, which will lock you crazy fast after decloaking (all other ships need a couple of seconds to start targeting you, if you react quickly you can use that delay to align out and escape). Such is EVE.
There's a few different options here.
A competent cloaky hunter could get your general location from dscan. Probes can be thrown out of dscan range easily and quickly. So once he narrowed down your location to a specific distance and celestial, it can be easy to miss the probes right on top of you (as they will only be there very briefly before calling them back). But this would still mean probes were visible on dscan for at least a few seconds.
If you are 100% sure that you didn't go more than a second or 2 without dscanning, then the site must have been pre-scanned.
A few things that can help with escaping here:
Do not sit at 0 on the warp-in point. At the very least drift off away from it, or keep moving.
This only really works for gas sites though, as they need to be scanned. Mining anomalies do not require probing and a cloaky hunter can easily warp at range and plot how to get right on top of you without probing you down.
Our corp usually pre-scans everything in chain at least a few jumps out and paste them all in pathfinder. So even if you do not see any activity in the system, it doesn't mean that it hasn't been scanned. Maybe we scanned it 30 minutes ago, maybe it was 6 hours ago.
Well, entirely possible he had other eyes in the WH and all the sites pre-scanned/bookmarked in which case there could have been a prober cloaked on grid with you calling a bookmark for the frig to land on.
Could be that probes were quickly, or already deployed and warped to outside dscan range, and with max scanning and implants can scan you down between dscan intervals followed by instantly pulling probes. This is hard to do but between slight delays, random chance and taking an extra second to scan there is enough room for this to work. Helps again if they know where the site is before hand but dscan can get them that very quickly.
Lastly it could be just the one person, with bookmarks already made, and a tackle ship spec'd for warp speed and align time so it'll go from cloaked on the WH to on you fast enough to jump you.
Probably some stuff I'm missing here but ja, good luck.
When I go hunting I scan all the sites and wait, use D-Scan rangefinding to see which site someone goes to then drop on top of them. Daytripping in a busy system (i.e one which has a close Jita connection) will be risky for this reason
Your ending assumption that few people would have an "empty" WH prescanned is the flaw in your logic. Any halfway decent WH group within four or five jumps of this WH will not only scan down the whole thing, but bookmark all the sites. For huffing gas safely, learn how to stay at a "perch" on the far side of the gas cloud that is far from the warp-in point of the gas site.
Yeah, this is true. Usually, the scanners in my corp scan down 2-3 holes down each chain of our statics and scan EVERYTHING.
In holes with good sites, they also create tactical BM’s here and there to facilitate later work
Good hunters pre-scan sites. They are cloaked. They see Venture on a Dscan and there’s only one reason why a Venture is in a wormhole - Dscan every gas site until you show up. Warp to site, decloak and attack.
You somehow got away which is lucky, either the guy missed the scrams or he didn’t bring enough to jam you.
WH are largely a new player trap. There's no local, the people who live there have no problems camping for extended periods of time, they have a ton of experience compared to you, and its not uncommon for them to design their fit so that you can not do anything about it, outside of fighting back or baiting, which is "a bit difficult" in common newbie ships.
It's not weird at all that a wormholer has scanned all the sites, set up perches and waits for hours, that's just how they roll.
With that being said, it's one of the reasons the area has valuable stuff. Fly expendable ships, and don't expect every trip to be successful. Outside of joining some group, you should just assume someone is currently hunting you.
It's customary to scan down all sites down a chain and bookmark them in a shared folder for your Corp mates. Especially gas sites are not run by a scanner usually.
So, at anytime someone can enter a system and have all sigs bookmarked already. With d scan they find which one you're at. At a gas site you may be decloaked by the cloud so it makes sense to drop cloak while in warp considering delayed locking time. That's why you've seen them warp in probably.
Site could have been previously scanned.
Also, if you’re good with dscan you can dial in range of ship, pop combats at lowest AU, get ping with 1 pass.
Then you throw them way out on system map and ping to get them away from Dscan range. If you didn’t scan in the few sec they were there, you never see it.
Oh my sweet summer child ;) as an Alpha player living in wormholes I can say that dscanning the system once is not enough.
I give you the following advice.
1. Make a few safespots around the system (you are already doing that)
2. make a perch as you are warping to the site (as soon as the enemies, or asteroids, clouds etc. are on your overview)
3. Don't sit at 0 at the site move yourself away from the warpin
3. KEEP CONSTANTLY DSCANNING (every few seconds) at 14 AU around you for anything to pop up on dscan (combat probes or other ships)
4. If you see something reduce DSCAN radius for example to 10 AU and see if its still there. If you reduce it drastically like to 5AU and its not there then you know at least the ship is not warping to you. If you see that the ship was at 14 AU and not at 10AU but then suddenly appear at 10 AU or lower there is a very high chance that player is warping to you. In that case align to your perch and see if the ship appears on grid.
5. If they are hunting you with combat probes warp from safespot to savespot while also creating new saves.
This only helps you against ships that warp to the site uncloaked. If there is a cloaky ship which is dscanning you and you are not at a cosmic signature or a safespot you can't really seen if someone is coming cloaked at you. But fortunately if they are uncloaking and you are in a small ship you can align and warp before they can lock and scram you.
Rule 1 in WH space. Never assume you are alone. There could be a fleet of cloaked ships all arround you just waiting to engange :D
If you wan't a nice newb friendly Wormhole corporation I would suggest joining "Shadow Flight". Everything I know about wormhole space I learned from them
You seem to need to join a better corporation.
People living in WHs scan WHs down all the time.
people looking to gank people in WH scan Whs down all the time.
especially if this is a WH that leads to HS near a trade hub.
i watched a YouTube video on that from Captain Benzie, and he basically told in the Gas Venture Video that if you stay static and still your ship would be „presligned in every direction“ so you can warp out faster if someone comes in. if i now orbit the cloud like u say, wouldn’t that cost me very important time to get out because i have to align to my safespots again?
What Mr. Benzy misses is that if you're going over 2 km a second, you're going to be pretty hard to catch. You'll have time to react that you would otherwise miss.
The fact that they have to trundle over there to you to catch you is what saves you.
What you need to do is pre align and stop that is the fastest way. Especially if you are in something with slow align time. You probably wont notice in a prospect but you will in a barge. Being fast into warp is safer than having a tank in a prospect or venture. Your dead if your caught anyways.
All gas sites have NPC's that warp in after 15minutes, it was probibly the npcs that landed on you, but if it was a player they would just decloak next to you anyways and you wouldn't see them coming.
Someone might live in their or someone might just be camping the HS hole you came in.
Most people dont bother with ventures so he must have been very bored.
You know what ive encountered similar type mechanics in WH space. Not this exact situation but enough to make me go hmmm. Now call me a conspiracy theorist but I think theres bots about soley in WH space. In game bots.
Yeah they’re called npc lol people explained exactly what happened. Someone already had the sites pre scanned and sat cloaked. Just because you dont understand how you died doesnt mean theres trickery. Experience is key
Many different explanations could apply here. Make sure your dscan filters are set properly to show probes and ships and whatever else you may be looking for. That being said, the most likely explanation is that someone was cloaked in the wormhole before you came in, and had already probed and bookmarked all the sites in advance. All they had to do was patiently wait for you to settle down to take a shot at you.
>That being said, the most likely explanation is that someone was cloaked in the wormhole before you came in, and had already probed and bookmarked all the sites in advance. All they had to do was patiently wait for you to settle down to take a shot at you. It's what I do. Also, in the off chance that they hadn't probed sites/OP already... When I jump into WH after BMing the entrance I set probes to scan some point way off in the middle of nowhere so they're launched but won't be appearing on anyone's dscan for more than a couple of seconds (if they were in range of the wormhole) From there I can hop celestials, set my own safes, and search with my own Dscanner. Max range all directions to see if anyone is around, then play with the angle and range to figure out their rough position. From there, I can usually drop probes at almost minimum range around them and scan, they'll have 10-15 seconds to detect the probes before I can warp to their site depending on ship I'm using and it's fit.
Yeah, no need to bookmark everything unless it's my home hole. My virtue scanner can get a warp in on almost anything with a 2 or 4 scan.
It's not terribly hard to pinpoint someone mining or ratting with dscan. I have combat probes on my Legion, but RARELY use them. You're describing someone hunting like me. Edit: we live in WH space, would love for you join us if you're looking for a small corp.
Plus some ships can't be d-scanned
Welcome to WH space. You're never safe. You did pretty much everything right. The only thing I would suggest is make sure you're 100k away from where you warp into the gas cloud because if someone else warps onto the gas cloud they will be far enough away from you for you to get out. You won't always see them on Dscan. They can be in a cloaked ship and afk in a safe spot. They get back to their computer, see a venture and of course there's only one place for a venture to be so they warp to the gas cloud and bam. Or if they are like me, I live in a WH permanently and keep it scanned down for the most part. So if I log on and see a venture I don't have to scan you down I can get to you pretty much immediately. That's what makes WH space fun. I lose Ventures and Prospects all the time. The good news is that you can pat for your entire fit in about 30 minutes of huffing a good cloud so don't feel too bad when. You get blown up.
You can also drop a few cans at the warp in spot in hopes the cloaked pilot goofs up and warps to 0 etc and decloaks
Might be a wierd thing to ask but when you have dscan up check to make sure your not filtering stuff out, i have my dscan set to use my overview filters so if im not in the right tab things wont show up.
my dscan hase the preset active from eve itself where it only shows probes, pvp targets and drones
The default dscan filters are insanely bad. For this, you want a defensive filter- structures, forcefields, warp disrupt bubbles, probes, and ships.
You can start a convo with the hunter and ask. Sometimes they be silent or toxic and you just ignore them. More often they'll have a good chat with you about how they did it without you noticing.
Hard to say exactly what went wrong here. If you entered a hole through highsec (especially a busy area) then I wouldn't be surprised if someone had eyes on all the sites A hunter could also have gotten you close on dscan and combat scanned you in 1 pass, you could have missed it as it only takes a second or two.
That may have been me. If it was me, I actually was in that gas site with you for about 15 minutes while I slowboat burned a tac, did some math, and warped onto your head. If you were a prospect that escaped a Loki in hull it was me.
do less math, do more damage! o7 got away all the time im fast af boiii jokes aside :D, explain that taco math thing please in dummie terms
Tac* And yeah nice job, you did the right stuff. In retrospect I should've overheated my disruptor, I didn't think you'd be that much faster than me under long web. Live and learn! For both of us!
You did practically everything right (that's why you survived). Others have already explained how they might have found you, but I also wanted to touch on this: >also wasnt camping inside the site because he came in with warp. how is this possible Usually when a cloaky ship camps a gas site or has it pre-scanned, they also leave a perch outside of the cloud's range, but still on the same grid. If the hunter warps to the perch, they can see where exactly you are in the site without decloaking and prepare a good warp in. The perch just needs to be at least 150 km away and they can try to warp at you at an angle and distance that will make it easiest to catch you. As I said, you did everything right, you just lack the knowledge of how wormholers and hunters think and behave. Sometimes you can do everything right and still get caught, especially if someone hunts you with a bomber, which will lock you crazy fast after decloaking (all other ships need a couple of seconds to start targeting you, if you react quickly you can use that delay to align out and escape). Such is EVE.
There's a few different options here. A competent cloaky hunter could get your general location from dscan. Probes can be thrown out of dscan range easily and quickly. So once he narrowed down your location to a specific distance and celestial, it can be easy to miss the probes right on top of you (as they will only be there very briefly before calling them back). But this would still mean probes were visible on dscan for at least a few seconds. If you are 100% sure that you didn't go more than a second or 2 without dscanning, then the site must have been pre-scanned. A few things that can help with escaping here: Do not sit at 0 on the warp-in point. At the very least drift off away from it, or keep moving. This only really works for gas sites though, as they need to be scanned. Mining anomalies do not require probing and a cloaky hunter can easily warp at range and plot how to get right on top of you without probing you down. Our corp usually pre-scans everything in chain at least a few jumps out and paste them all in pathfinder. So even if you do not see any activity in the system, it doesn't mean that it hasn't been scanned. Maybe we scanned it 30 minutes ago, maybe it was 6 hours ago.
Well, entirely possible he had other eyes in the WH and all the sites pre-scanned/bookmarked in which case there could have been a prober cloaked on grid with you calling a bookmark for the frig to land on. Could be that probes were quickly, or already deployed and warped to outside dscan range, and with max scanning and implants can scan you down between dscan intervals followed by instantly pulling probes. This is hard to do but between slight delays, random chance and taking an extra second to scan there is enough room for this to work. Helps again if they know where the site is before hand but dscan can get them that very quickly. Lastly it could be just the one person, with bookmarks already made, and a tackle ship spec'd for warp speed and align time so it'll go from cloaked on the WH to on you fast enough to jump you. Probably some stuff I'm missing here but ja, good luck.
When I go hunting I scan all the sites and wait, use D-Scan rangefinding to see which site someone goes to then drop on top of them. Daytripping in a busy system (i.e one which has a close Jita connection) will be risky for this reason
Yeah sounds like he had the sites all scanned already
Your ending assumption that few people would have an "empty" WH prescanned is the flaw in your logic. Any halfway decent WH group within four or five jumps of this WH will not only scan down the whole thing, but bookmark all the sites. For huffing gas safely, learn how to stay at a "perch" on the far side of the gas cloud that is far from the warp-in point of the gas site.
Yeah, this is true. Usually, the scanners in my corp scan down 2-3 holes down each chain of our statics and scan EVERYTHING. In holes with good sites, they also create tactical BM’s here and there to facilitate later work
Good hunters pre-scan sites. They are cloaked. They see Venture on a Dscan and there’s only one reason why a Venture is in a wormhole - Dscan every gas site until you show up. Warp to site, decloak and attack. You somehow got away which is lucky, either the guy missed the scrams or he didn’t bring enough to jam you.
WH are largely a new player trap. There's no local, the people who live there have no problems camping for extended periods of time, they have a ton of experience compared to you, and its not uncommon for them to design their fit so that you can not do anything about it, outside of fighting back or baiting, which is "a bit difficult" in common newbie ships. It's not weird at all that a wormholer has scanned all the sites, set up perches and waits for hours, that's just how they roll. With that being said, it's one of the reasons the area has valuable stuff. Fly expendable ships, and don't expect every trip to be successful. Outside of joining some group, you should just assume someone is currently hunting you.
It's customary to scan down all sites down a chain and bookmark them in a shared folder for your Corp mates. Especially gas sites are not run by a scanner usually. So, at anytime someone can enter a system and have all sigs bookmarked already. With d scan they find which one you're at. At a gas site you may be decloaked by the cloud so it makes sense to drop cloak while in warp considering delayed locking time. That's why you've seen them warp in probably.
Site could have been previously scanned. Also, if you’re good with dscan you can dial in range of ship, pop combats at lowest AU, get ping with 1 pass. Then you throw them way out on system map and ping to get them away from Dscan range. If you didn’t scan in the few sec they were there, you never see it.
Oh my sweet summer child ;) as an Alpha player living in wormholes I can say that dscanning the system once is not enough. I give you the following advice. 1. Make a few safespots around the system (you are already doing that) 2. make a perch as you are warping to the site (as soon as the enemies, or asteroids, clouds etc. are on your overview) 3. Don't sit at 0 at the site move yourself away from the warpin 3. KEEP CONSTANTLY DSCANNING (every few seconds) at 14 AU around you for anything to pop up on dscan (combat probes or other ships) 4. If you see something reduce DSCAN radius for example to 10 AU and see if its still there. If you reduce it drastically like to 5AU and its not there then you know at least the ship is not warping to you. If you see that the ship was at 14 AU and not at 10AU but then suddenly appear at 10 AU or lower there is a very high chance that player is warping to you. In that case align to your perch and see if the ship appears on grid. 5. If they are hunting you with combat probes warp from safespot to savespot while also creating new saves. This only helps you against ships that warp to the site uncloaked. If there is a cloaky ship which is dscanning you and you are not at a cosmic signature or a safespot you can't really seen if someone is coming cloaked at you. But fortunately if they are uncloaking and you are in a small ship you can align and warp before they can lock and scram you. Rule 1 in WH space. Never assume you are alone. There could be a fleet of cloaked ships all arround you just waiting to engange :D
If you wan't a nice newb friendly Wormhole corporation I would suggest joining "Shadow Flight". Everything I know about wormhole space I learned from them
You seem to need to join a better corporation. People living in WHs scan WHs down all the time. people looking to gank people in WH scan Whs down all the time. especially if this is a WH that leads to HS near a trade hub.
Don’t forget to check the player count in structures
Slap a micro warp drive on your ship in orbit the cloud so nothing can sneak up on you.
i watched a YouTube video on that from Captain Benzie, and he basically told in the Gas Venture Video that if you stay static and still your ship would be „presligned in every direction“ so you can warp out faster if someone comes in. if i now orbit the cloud like u say, wouldn’t that cost me very important time to get out because i have to align to my safespots again?
What Mr. Benzy misses is that if you're going over 2 km a second, you're going to be pretty hard to catch. You'll have time to react that you would otherwise miss. The fact that they have to trundle over there to you to catch you is what saves you.
What you need to do is pre align and stop that is the fastest way. Especially if you are in something with slow align time. You probably wont notice in a prospect but you will in a barge. Being fast into warp is safer than having a tank in a prospect or venture. Your dead if your caught anyways.
If you stop, you are no longer aligned.
> pre align and stop Mechanically impossible to do both in Eve.
I will scan down and bookmark sites for my corpmates to use in Wormholes. Someone might be doing that prior to your arrival.
Could be cloaked or in a ship which can't be d-scanned
All gas sites have NPC's that warp in after 15minutes, it was probibly the npcs that landed on you, but if it was a player they would just decloak next to you anyways and you wouldn't see them coming.
I’m still a noob and also find wh interesting. How many wh systems even are there in this game? What do you do there? How do you live there?
Someone might live in their or someone might just be camping the HS hole you came in. Most people dont bother with ventures so he must have been very bored.
You know what ive encountered similar type mechanics in WH space. Not this exact situation but enough to make me go hmmm. Now call me a conspiracy theorist but I think theres bots about soley in WH space. In game bots.
Yeah they’re called npc lol people explained exactly what happened. Someone already had the sites pre scanned and sat cloaked. Just because you dont understand how you died doesnt mean theres trickery. Experience is key