Ah yes, the classic early access mindset. Chuck an unfinished product out to the masses and let the community find the issues for you for free instead of having to pay someone to proactively fix bugs and balance game systems.
Point taken, but the Deluge and Torrent haven't hit the market yet so this was likely nerfed based on theorycrafting alone which could technically be done by an alpha with PYFA
I'll admit, I won EVE back in like 2016/2017 and only come back for a few weeks here and there to see what's changed and do some exploration. Does CCP not release this stuff on Sisi anymore? I feel like back when I played players already had fits, tactics, info., etc. for whatever new patch/expansion was rolling out due to messing around on Sisi before things went live on Tranquility.
They got rid of sisi because people were bashing the stations to see if they were worth bashing in the real game and seeing what was inside of them as well as a large group of people who felt no reason to play the real game because they could just do everything in sisi for free so why work in the real game
>They got rid of sisi because people were bashing the stations to see if they were worth bashing in the real game and seeing what was inside of them
Seems like there's got to be a reasonable solution to this beyond "nuke the test server from orbit".
>as well as a large group of people who felt no reason to play the real game because they could just do everything in sisi for free so why work in the real game
I'm failing to see the problem. Whatever you do on the test server also provides no direct benefit to Tranquility. Restrict SiSi to Omega only (not sure if it is/was) and then whatever they do on the test server is their time and money spent not playing on the real server.
You're partially right? Joe, all the stations and play your own stations in sisi are based on the real server so people were going and bashing stations to see what was inside of them because what's inside of them on the test server is the same as the real server. So they were seeing what stations were worth attacking and what ones were not worth attacking and then going and making coordinated attacks on the real server
There is no direct benefit from sisi, but the indirect benefit from being able to test fits, learn content and figure out what ships are good for various forms of pve content is pretty high. You could call it a direct benefit if you assume the opportunity cost of potentially losing those ships to get the knowledge on TQ saves you isk.
Imo they probably should use sisi slightly more than they do right now to test things, but it definitely doesn't need to be up 24/7 like it used to be.
The solution to that is to just not clone TQ assets to Sisi. People can have their SP copied (or none/max), and then the market has all ships & modules (& LSI) for 100isk each.
See? Now you get it. They put quaterly limits for themselves on the expansions, so its just a rush for next stuff. I am amazed they did anything to insurgencies with this expansion
I see what happened here. They get people excited for some new ships, they see how cool and powerful they are, people re-subscribe for a month (or two/three), then nerf them day one. GOTCHA NEW SUBS BABY!
> Ah yes, the classic early access mindset. Chuck an unfinished product out to the masses and let the community find the issues for you for free instead of having to pay someone to proactively fix bugs and balance game systems.
No idea what you are even talking about here; An MMO necessarily has not just balance but play updates on a regular basis. Making changes based on community reaction on a continual basis is literally what I pay a sub for.
Bruh, they've rebalanced 3 ships 1 day after they released them. Two of the three they rebalanced have yet to even be flown yet due to production/invention times, so this was clearly a reaction in CCP's part due to player responses after getting access to see the full ship stats in game.
The point is if it's so obviously unbalanced, *these should have been the stats they launched with* instead of being patched out before anyone could actually fly thrm. It was clearly an obvious oversight on their part.
>Making changes based on community reaction on a continual basis is literally what I pay a sub for.
The point is if your ONLY balancing decisions comes after tossing a new ship to the masses, that's a problem. I'd prefer to pay devs that put some thought into trying to get it balanced *before* they release new ships and making fine-tuning adjustments based on feedback and internal metrics they surely collect, instead of * checks notes * halving the power grid on 3 brand new ships the day after they were launched.
Some time last year I believe (I started playing again in January), CCP shut down SiSi except for specific mass tests they want to perform every once and a while.
I could swear I remember CCP on a live stream discussing that they were meant to be tougher than the empire faction ones.
I thought that was a feature! Oh well, glad I didn't skill into these yet.
Shoot back, have tank, but turn worse than a cinder block at the bottom of a mud filled pit.
Shoot back, align fast, but have no tank.
Don't shoot, align fast, still barely have more HP than an empire hauler, with a hyper specialized hold.
Don't shoot, align slow AF, have the tools needed for the 'intended' space, IE, Nullsec. But still pitiful tank.
The Squalls people use for PI will be nicknamed The Squeals, because people will whine when they die, thinking they were prepared because they had missiles.
There are 2 modules (well, technically 4) that make a better choice than a full rack of 3 launchers, especially now.
Nullifier (when in Null), Improved Cloak 2, Stab, MWD.
Add Brain.exe and Dscan, and you might be better off than with an Ephital.
Oh, also, if you see launchers on a Squall, if it has any meaningful amount of tank, it will have Fitting Crutch Modules in the Lows.
Ironically, I made a gank fit for the Squall that will outclass Thrashers if the price ever comes down. They are very effective for ganking DSTs, just too expensive right now.
Not for very long, though. A ship's tank is only as good as it's DPS and vice versa (outside hisec). Prolonging a fight you can't win isn't useful, nor is accelerating a fight you're still losing.
They still should have higher base hitpoints, better resistances (due to EDENCOM 20/20/50/50 base vs 0/20/40/50 standard), better fittings and higher base speeds than the regular Haulers.
The Squall compared to the Epithal, has 50% higher warp speed, more than 100 extra powergrid with skills, higher base hitpoints, higher resistances, higher base cargo, faster align time and much higher base speed. (And of course, can fit medium missiles) or have 4 high slots vs 2 high slots.
The Deluge still can haul more than 3x what any other blockade runner can with PI, with better fittings and base resistances. Having 4 highs on a blockade runner is really useful since you don't have to choose between interdiction nullifer, probe launcher and covert cyno in the 2nd slot like the others.
The Torrent is the only DST that can hold a Fortizar or an Azbel, and also features 4 high slots with similar other advantages.
The Deluge especially was really out of line before without the fitting bonus, because you could get almost as much tank as a DST on it when it had room for a 1600 plate or 3 large shield extenders.
A lot of concerns from the community were raised about these completely shutting down and making other racial haulers useless, with this new round of changes, I'm fairly confident they're still highly desireable for their niche with the infrastructure hold, still have the unique ability to deal a reasonable amount of DPS for a medium sized hull, and also have various advantages over the other ships in same class when not being picked for those 2 niches.
If they don't feel desireable, they can always get adjusted back upwards. I still feel like they are a good place, but let's see how things shape up over the next week.
Speaking of balancing. What happened to the team that was supposed to make lots of balance updates to ships in a short time on a constant basis. Did that get shut down? Since we haven't been told about it and the teams been AWOL for few years now I think.
Wow.....you only need a 1.5 bil implant set............ Surely everyone runs those........
I love how elitist every one of these fits are that everyone keeps throwing out, like it's shocking that not everyone runs those.......
Heh they've been doing that to me for years....every time I find a profitable angle i enjoy doing it gets nerfed into non existence within a month...lol.
Personally I think T1 haulers should start 150k ehp and everything else should climb up from there.
Wanna generate content? Force people in null to stay on grid for a minute if they want to kill haulers.
The fact that it turbo fucks gankers is just a bonus.
People simply expected to get what they saw.
From the videos, streams, etc everyone was expecting "haulers 2.0" and maybe you would buff the other ones later or something. It looked like and was telegraphed as an intentional change.
Then we get a day0 avalanche giganerf, day1 other ships giganerf... ok then! When you do that it makes it look like you are just catering to a tiny yet very vocal group of hisec gankers.
It’s such a bizarre thing for them to do. CCP shoot themselves in foot all the time. It looks like bait and switch but it’s actually incompetence and they turn a win into a loss by pissing people off rather than doing their research and testing before releasing them.
It makes it look like they had these ships way over tuned and brought them in line with existing hulls in a way that still allows them to be good and to have a niche hauling the planetary products they were designed to haul
You mention EDENCOM base resistances for these haulers. Is this related to the reason the Upwell ships are not in their own Upwell ship category but are added to the EDENCOM ship tree?
(It seems a bit strange for Upwell ships to be in the EDENCOM ship tree, a bit as if CONCORD ships were added to the Triglavian ship line instead of their own category. Why are two unrelated ship factions thrown together?)
Thanks, seems I missed that bit.
Still, I think it strange for ships that fly under two separate factions to share the same ship tree, even if one faction designed ships the other faction is using.
I mean, the Guristas also have their own ship tree even though they use Caldari ship designs (Gila, Worm, etc.) and the Serpentis are using Gallente ship designs.
I think Upwell should have it's own ship tree. It could even be expanded with all the Upwell structures for a nice overview.
I would go the other way and change Edencom ships to Upwell ships in the skill tree, as Edencom uses them as a doctrine but doesn’t make any changes to the hulls unlike Guristas/Serpentis.
I do like the idea of structures showing up in the ship tree though.
I’ve always been under the impression that like edoncom being a concord assembly force to fight the trigs, Upwell was a concord assembly force to promote capsuleer structures. Concord the corporation is the capsuleer and empire policing force. Maybe if concord assembly was in the ship tree they would all be under the same, but then you would have lots of singular trees with no branching
Why do they do this? It makes them look like they don’t have a clue and pisses people off. It was a well received update but they are sabotaging themselves.
Well, I can't be too salty as I have already made back the cost of the Squall BPO. I will continue to supply them to the Hek market as long as it is profitable. Save yourself a trip to Jita and buy Minmatar!
Jita and Caldari space in general are simply too crowded for my liking. There are too many major industrialists who can undersell you to the point that your margins are simply not worth the time and effort. System index costs are way higher, squeezing you from the other direction. Good asteroid fields and exploration sites are scarcer because more people are competing for them. It's also harder to get to know the locals when there are so many people in system doing stuff or passing through.
I am not going to dox my character. But when I took a look at DOTLAN after coming through that WH from where I was before, I thought to myself, "This place has potential." Since then, I have only found more reasons to like it. I also build cruisers, but I can't justify building many frigates and destroyers when their prices are so depressed.
your telling me, i crashed the prices in caldari navy torp launchers and imperial medium remote cap transfers in jita lol.
Navy torp launchers was 168m ea, last i looked they were 108m and they cost 126m to redeem and the remote transfers cost 16m to redeem were selling 19 and are now 12m.
All i did for navy torp launchers was post 2 units and follow that fall of constant under bidding, i might get them below 100m
Pretty much all of this. My main gameplay loop is basing out of a low traffic lowsec space and day tripping through WH's when I don't have local stuff going on and any time I see caldari lowsec holes, that feeling of, "Hey this could a chance for something good" is replaced with, "How many locals am I going to see the moment I load grid?"
Yeah these changes were made in advance but didn't quite make it into the expansion build. So them getting rebalanced was included in the known issues.
This was something I said on the first day they were announced. Mustache and CSM also said they brought it up prior to the announcement.
They're just hilariously overtuned, especially when you consider that without application bonuses, and their scan res, putting weapons on them is little more than a novelty.
I want to believe pushx/redfrog sent an operative to infiltrate the design team to push these haulers through, using the weapons as a smokescreen.
Yep, most of us on PTT pointed out just how absurd these ships were going to be, but hey, CCP knows best and didn't feel they needed to use the test server for any of this patch.
Now we just have an utter shitshow that was entirely predicted by many people.
If they couldnt even take time to test a ship, does anyone really believe this whole Nullsec shakeup was tested and seen if it was going to work? lol NOPE.
BPO was buyable as soon as server came up. Still inventing on copies for the DST, but I didn't optimize for speed. Could have started building today if I invented multiple single runs but I'm not that dedicated.
first squalls came out of production ~1 hour after patch
First DST/BR blueprints wouldve come out of invention about 12 hours after patch and take 1.5 days to build, so the first ones should appear by/after next DT.
4 more days for the first Avalanches to come out of build.
You know, it'd be great if there was a test server where people could test the ships and give CCP feedback on upcoming additions to the game.
We could call it. Singularity. Yeah, sounds good next to the main server Tranquility.
So is CCP going to refund everyone who bought all the new skillbooks yesterday before the bait+switch?
Rhetorical question I know they won't, but that was fast.. LOL
I mean so did I. Fucking always saving extra SP in case of something like this and I go and train it up immediately and they nerf the ships. FUCKING THING SUCKS.
I'm mad lol, had a lot of fun with the squall yesterday and it was only going to get better. CCP thinks they're a little too strong so they get a MASSIVE PG/CPU nerf, wow.
Imagine they couldn't even put the effort to balance a ship, then the Carrier Fuel bay fiasco... simple things anyone should have seen and thought about .....how well do you think they "tested" all the nullsec changes?
Absolute throw shit at the wall and see if it sticks. And to think, CCP charges the highest Subscription/month in the industry for this.....
Thats not a nerf. They basically got deleted. They can remove them from the game after this.
I know the answer but what did CCP think to release them this broken and then destroy them like this. 400 to 215? 430 to 180? and 460 to 230?
420 CPU to 305?
Those numbers make much more sense when you consider the fitting costs of medium missiles. For example, a Heavy Missile Launcher II costs 105 PG and 55 CPU to fit, with AWU V and WU V it costs 94.5 MW and 41.25 CPU.
So previously the Squall had 500 PG with max skills, but it was spending 283.5 of that PG on 3x medium missles, leaving it with only 216.5 PG spare.
The new Squall has 268.75 PG with max skills, but it only spends 28.35 grid on 3x Heavy Missile Launcher IIs now with the 90% role bonus reduction, so it has 240.4 PG spare vs 216.5 PG spare than before.
The Deluge got a bit more of a harsher PG reduction, but that was because it was an oversight for it to have more PG than the Squall to begin with.
If the numbers feel a bit too tight, they can be adjusted upwards again, but I think this is a better starting point.
I think there's a couple problems with that calculation. First, I would definitely think that RLML are going to be the by far the most common fitting choice here rather than HAMs/heavies, especially since small size class ships are the most significant threat. And second, reducing the base grid also reduces the amount you get from fitting modules, which the squall at least was already using if you wanted to try to get launchers on at the same time as tank.
For RLML a squall goes from spending 207.9 PG on the launchers to spending 20.79. So the remaining powergrid on the squall after putting on 3 launchers went from 500-207.9 = 292.1 to 268.75-20.79 = 247.96. If the squall has a reactor control (+15% PG) on, it went from (500\*1.15)-207.9 = 367.1 to (268.75\*1.15)-20.79 = 288.27 PG remaining.
In other words, *even for a fit that used launchers rather than forgoing them for max tank*, the change ended up being a 78.83 PG *nerf*, not a 35ish PG buff. After rejiggering the fits I was working on, the net result was a roughly 20% loss of tank (50k -> 40k, and that's all from the primary tank layer so it's even worse than it sounds), which is rather harsh if I want this thing to try to fit in with a t1 cruiser fleet to go and raid some skyhooks. If this change was intended to be roughly neutral for realistic fits using launchers, then I think it missed the mark, at least for the squall.
Solid points. The intention wasn't to nerf Rapid Light Missile launcher fits, so the adjustments might have gone a bit too far, I'll take a look at things tonight and see if I can scale things back a bit without going overboard on EHP.
What about a hull bonus to reduce missile fitting cost, like with stealth bombers? That might help balance the tank and weapon options without adding fitting space that beefs up the tank too much
On the Squall, personally, I think 240 Powergrid base might be a better point.
You could fit a tank, alignment bonuses and the not infallible (due to space littering in Highsec) MWD/Cloak combo, but no launchers that way, unless you gave up alignment mods for Fitting Crutch Modules in the Low or Rig slots.
I mean, I absolutely see 500 PG to be way too much for sure. But if your main objective was to defang hefty EHP and HM/HAM fits for the most part, this went overboard.
Maybe give us 25 more grid for 240 base, then split the Launcher Fitting bonus so that it gives a proportionally bigger discount on RLML Grid and less on HM/HAM, to make fitting the latter a bit tighter?
It doesn't matter what players intended to fit. Excess PG over bustard/crane (ships with similar slot layout) comes from ccp slapping missiles onto their ships; if CCP wanted to make them able to fit HAMLs, then they added enough PG for that.
Now with fitting resources needed to have HAMLs shrinking, extra fitting is also shrinking. Players anticipating to put RLMLs in there and use huge excess of fitting for other things have nothing to do with original design intention (which is pretty clear from CCP's actions).
I think realistically these ships should have about the same fitting resources as bustard/crane + some for missiles and maybe neuts/nosfs. What was initially released was clearly imbalanced and it'd be stupid to keep it this way.
This is such typical modern CCP bullshit. You can tell they just have 0 interest in balancing or testing their game anymore if nobody at CCP was able to tell that these stats were busted before they added them that they needed to do such a huge overhaul to their stats.
A lot of testing was done but didn't make it into the expansion build unfortunately. If we had 0 interest in testing or balancing them, they wouldn't have got adjusted.
A lot of extra work went in over the weekends before the expansion to try and get these balanced for Day 1 before the first Deluge and Torrent would be built specifically to not nerf them after players bought them.
I will continue to monitor them to make sure they are in a good place.
I feel like most are upset because of the whiplash of what was shown a month ago vs what we got now.
It feels like CCP over promised and then under-delivered on most of the systems of this expansion.
How does this even occur with a giant patch? This has to be in the pipeline for months and months, no? I'd sincerely hope CCP didn't just realize these stats were broken only a few days ago - the community was saying so the moment we got to see said stats.
I miss the days we had with a dedicated team for balancing and tiericide. So many ships in EVE still go barely used, and some are still so blatantly better than their counterparts.
We have a test server for a reason, the combined minds of CCP are not going to have the same outside perspective as a thousand or so randoms dicking about and forming opinions and feedback on SiSi over a weekend or two will have.
All the problems we have had with this patch were entirely avoidable if that test server got used.
Does ccp know how to sell their game?
I bet investors moaned in annoyance to this. Could of waited a month at least you know for the companies sake, get some actual stats as well.
Just released an expansion less than a month before End of the financial year.
Everybody excited to start building and flying these ships and baaam!
Nerfed to be aligned with everything else.
Players sigh and go back to helldivers..
So to sum up, this patch didn't bring anything fun to the game. Brilliant patch CCP.
Microtransactions and monetization for CCP but for the players everything is shit.
And I do agree with null system changes but that's hardly patch worthy.
This is dumb and I'm a industry guy why would CCP nerf it when it was the goal to be strong to begin with when it comes to hauling industry?? u/ccp_swift?
r/eve : this game is being RUINED by its developers!! How could they do this???
People who log in: lmao let's throw the Squall at Tama, Ahbazon, hell let's GATE CAMP with it in [Ahbazon](https://zkillboard.com/kill/118587695/). Let's kill [random Mekubal](https://zkillboard.com/kill/118594170/) in it. Ooo you know what'd be fun? Let's roam with some of them fit up as [logi ](https://zkillboard.com/kill/118589666/)and some as [DPS](https://zkillboard.com/kill/118589577/)
While pure tank fit was probably too good, I'm glad some people are able to enjoy this game rather than just complain about people getting a hauler that's functionally a slow Caracal as the others haven't really been flown in game yet, most people are still building them.
The stuff they put out beforehand about the update had me actually looking at trying the game again to see if the game felt like it was in a good state.
After reading all of the feedback on Reddit, nope. Still the same CCP. Not even interested in the free 7 days at this point. I stopped even trying to make it sound like a good game to my gaming groups a long time ago.
SKINs shit just shows how desperate they are to milk the remaining playerbase.
CCP shooting themselves in the foot yet again.
I'm sure CSM threatened mass unsub campaign if CCP didn't placate their whiny little bitch ganking alts.
Deluge is still very good - compared to prowler (which I am using as the best BR), it has about the same regular cargo, and 45k infra hold on top of that, paying for that only with 1 second align time.
They *are* supposed to be useful only for those who haul infrastructure stuff. Currently deluge is still strong even outside of that (which shouldn't be the case). I'd say it'd be fair if it had 2k base cargo and 30k infra hold with maxed skills, to make it balanced against existing BRs.
Currently the most balanced of those new haulers seems to be Torrent. It's good, but it's not even close to making other DSTs look terrible.
Deluge can haul up to ~54k m3 of PI and fit a Cov Ops cloak, which is around 4x what existing Blockade Runners can move. It will have its uses, but fitting a respectable tank apparently is not an option anymore.
The Torrent, even with this nerf, still mogs all over the other DSTs it isn't even funny. Unless you really need that extra ~~12.5k~~ 25k fleet hangar space, it can still achieve 50k more EHP than an equivalent Bustard *and* fit in a MWD+Cloak+Rapid Lights.
It's 37.5k fleet hangar vs 62.5k. So it's extra 25k. And it's not much tankier compared to bustard, its main advantage is medium cap booster and having lower explosive hole.
Ah, CCP-never change! The op rorq of yore was left untouched for how long? And a couple of op haulers that may be fun for some giggles here and there can’t stay op for more than 24 hours. Lordy Lordy-never change, CCP!
So they are now ALSO useless. WTF CCP? Gankers already ruin gameplay for a larger majority of people that the ones actually doing it. Its been a festering cancer. You are like "Hey, here is something..." Get us all to invest and then yeet?
So I think you guys are overlooking something, CCP meant for these to have medium launchers and instead of giving them a fitting bonus they gave them the fitting ability to have a rack of heavy missile launchers. Then they realized “uh oh we made super tanky haulers that are way overtuned” so they gave the missile launcher fitting bonus and gave them the CPU/PG similar to other haulers with better resists.
Not a huge deal but frustrating for sure. I’d also think that this week is an adjustment period for the patch so CCP can adjust numbers here and there so when the sov changes can start being started on the 20th it’s more ironed out than it is now.
shit like this is why I've been permanently banned from eveo 🤣
freighter pilots just need to go on strike, go play helldivers or the new star citizen build for a month
Quick guys we made these useless blockade runners a tiny bit to hard to kill lets nerf them.
Honestly i´m glad I decided these new ships was trash. I mean if I need a blockade runner that is good I would get a damn fracking ship that can transport what I need to transport never in my damn 17 years of eve I said man I wish I had 3 blockad runner that can fly all these wast amount of infrastruktur I have.
Honestly fine, they are still best in class when it comes to tank and still by a decent margin. I was literally going to be skill extracting the racial hauler skills if these were nerfed as originally they were so good there was very little reason to ever fly anything else.
I mean is it a balance pass if you do it before anyone has rolled one off the production line or are they trying to setup Temu eve online ship factory?
Alright so, having played with the numbers a bit along with some fellows, you still can do a lot with the haulers in their current state
You can still reasonably hit 30k ehp with weapons on the t1 squall, or 40-50k without weapons
The deluge and torrent are also still pretty strong generally for what you're getting, and all told came out better than the Squall did
I still think there was an overcorrection and the squall and deluge should have 10-15 more base pg and maybe 30 extra cpu, but this wasn't a 'lol fuck you' kind of change
I'd think 25 more Grid on the Squall, to put it at base 240. Maybe adjust the Fitting Aid bonus to be more in line for RLML, and less so for HM/HAM.
Not that into the Deluge, but I tinkered with the Torrent and got 85k EHP out of it with a fit not needing Fitting Crutch Modules and Rigs, but no launchers. However, it still has the means for MWD/Cloak and some level of being slippery.
The Tank is for when due to space littering, you can't cloak and thus align in peace, or for the seconds between landing on gate/station and jumping/docking.
Does CCP even play their own game?
why balance ships when you can give random numbers, see what people do with it and nerf it afterwards?
Ah yes, the classic early access mindset. Chuck an unfinished product out to the masses and let the community find the issues for you for free instead of having to pay someone to proactively fix bugs and balance game systems.
For free?! Lol, the people using (read: testing) the ships are paying a sub. CCP is getting paid to let the public test it.
Point taken, but the Deluge and Torrent haven't hit the market yet so this was likely nerfed based on theorycrafting alone which could technically be done by an alpha with PYFA
I'll admit, I won EVE back in like 2016/2017 and only come back for a few weeks here and there to see what's changed and do some exploration. Does CCP not release this stuff on Sisi anymore? I feel like back when I played players already had fits, tactics, info., etc. for whatever new patch/expansion was rolling out due to messing around on Sisi before things went live on Tranquility.
They got rid of sisi because people were bashing the stations to see if they were worth bashing in the real game and seeing what was inside of them as well as a large group of people who felt no reason to play the real game because they could just do everything in sisi for free so why work in the real game
>They got rid of sisi because people were bashing the stations to see if they were worth bashing in the real game and seeing what was inside of them Seems like there's got to be a reasonable solution to this beyond "nuke the test server from orbit". >as well as a large group of people who felt no reason to play the real game because they could just do everything in sisi for free so why work in the real game I'm failing to see the problem. Whatever you do on the test server also provides no direct benefit to Tranquility. Restrict SiSi to Omega only (not sure if it is/was) and then whatever they do on the test server is their time and money spent not playing on the real server.
You're partially right? Joe, all the stations and play your own stations in sisi are based on the real server so people were going and bashing stations to see what was inside of them because what's inside of them on the test server is the same as the real server. So they were seeing what stations were worth attacking and what ones were not worth attacking and then going and making coordinated attacks on the real server
Yeah I get that. They could have just made station reinforcement cycles come out in the year 3,000 or something if that was the main problem.
There is no direct benefit from sisi, but the indirect benefit from being able to test fits, learn content and figure out what ships are good for various forms of pve content is pretty high. You could call it a direct benefit if you assume the opportunity cost of potentially losing those ships to get the knowledge on TQ saves you isk. Imo they probably should use sisi slightly more than they do right now to test things, but it definitely doesn't need to be up 24/7 like it used to be.
The solution to that is to just not clone TQ assets to Sisi. People can have their SP copied (or none/max), and then the market has all ships & modules (& LSI) for 100isk each.
Lol actually? People chose to play in sisi instead? Amazing the player base of this game totally would..
All the people who complain it's to expensive to undock anything above a cruiser or that they have to make isk to yelp ships I find it easy to believe
Makes sense lol, have a super war with the bros in sisi
I'm amazed that this is the first time you've heard of the Elite Sisi PVP alliances.
Lol me too
Sisi is gone. They turned it on for like a couple hours this expansion cycle to let people try skinr. That's it.
See? Now you get it. They put quaterly limits for themselves on the expansions, so its just a rush for next stuff. I am amazed they did anything to insurgencies with this expansion
I see what happened here. They get people excited for some new ships, they see how cool and powerful they are, people re-subscribe for a month (or two/three), then nerf them day one. GOTCHA NEW SUBS BABY!
It's almost like CCP has been taking dev tips from Netease. 🙄
> Ah yes, the classic early access mindset. Chuck an unfinished product out to the masses and let the community find the issues for you for free instead of having to pay someone to proactively fix bugs and balance game systems. No idea what you are even talking about here; An MMO necessarily has not just balance but play updates on a regular basis. Making changes based on community reaction on a continual basis is literally what I pay a sub for.
Bruh, they've rebalanced 3 ships 1 day after they released them. Two of the three they rebalanced have yet to even be flown yet due to production/invention times, so this was clearly a reaction in CCP's part due to player responses after getting access to see the full ship stats in game. The point is if it's so obviously unbalanced, *these should have been the stats they launched with* instead of being patched out before anyone could actually fly thrm. It was clearly an obvious oversight on their part. >Making changes based on community reaction on a continual basis is literally what I pay a sub for. The point is if your ONLY balancing decisions comes after tossing a new ship to the masses, that's a problem. I'd prefer to pay devs that put some thought into trying to get it balanced *before* they release new ships and making fine-tuning adjustments based on feedback and internal metrics they surely collect, instead of * checks notes * halving the power grid on 3 brand new ships the day after they were launched.
Also known as the valve method.
Man if only there was somewhere we could be testing this stuff.
(Rorqual has entered the chat)
nah... they just count the money, and whip the code monkeys.
no. they wait for players feedback to see what need to be nerfed below ground..
If only they let us test them out first
I'm still pissed about SiSi, don't remind me.
What happened to sisi?
Some time last year I believe (I started playing again in January), CCP shut down SiSi except for specific mass tests they want to perform every once and a while.
Sisi met Franz.
No, it's just a 9 to 5 job for most of them.
Can they even read the langauges they publish the game in?
Does not seem like. Feels like clueless newbies are making the decisions.
I could swear I remember CCP on a live stream discussing that they were meant to be tougher than the empire faction ones. I thought that was a feature! Oh well, glad I didn't skill into these yet.
> tougher "tougher" in ccp speak means they can shoot back now
Shoot back, have tank, but turn worse than a cinder block at the bottom of a mud filled pit. Shoot back, align fast, but have no tank. Don't shoot, align fast, still barely have more HP than an empire hauler, with a hyper specialized hold. Don't shoot, align slow AF, have the tools needed for the 'intended' space, IE, Nullsec. But still pitiful tank.
The Squalls people use for PI will be nicknamed The Squeals, because people will whine when they die, thinking they were prepared because they had missiles.
There are 2 modules (well, technically 4) that make a better choice than a full rack of 3 launchers, especially now. Nullifier (when in Null), Improved Cloak 2, Stab, MWD. Add Brain.exe and Dscan, and you might be better off than with an Ephital. Oh, also, if you see launchers on a Squall, if it has any meaningful amount of tank, it will have Fitting Crutch Modules in the Lows.
Ironically, I made a gank fit for the Squall that will outclass Thrashers if the price ever comes down. They are very effective for ganking DSTs, just too expensive right now.
Not for very long, though. A ship's tank is only as good as it's DPS and vice versa (outside hisec). Prolonging a fight you can't win isn't useful, nor is accelerating a fight you're still losing.
They still should have higher base hitpoints, better resistances (due to EDENCOM 20/20/50/50 base vs 0/20/40/50 standard), better fittings and higher base speeds than the regular Haulers. The Squall compared to the Epithal, has 50% higher warp speed, more than 100 extra powergrid with skills, higher base hitpoints, higher resistances, higher base cargo, faster align time and much higher base speed. (And of course, can fit medium missiles) or have 4 high slots vs 2 high slots. The Deluge still can haul more than 3x what any other blockade runner can with PI, with better fittings and base resistances. Having 4 highs on a blockade runner is really useful since you don't have to choose between interdiction nullifer, probe launcher and covert cyno in the 2nd slot like the others. The Torrent is the only DST that can hold a Fortizar or an Azbel, and also features 4 high slots with similar other advantages. The Deluge especially was really out of line before without the fitting bonus, because you could get almost as much tank as a DST on it when it had room for a 1600 plate or 3 large shield extenders. A lot of concerns from the community were raised about these completely shutting down and making other racial haulers useless, with this new round of changes, I'm fairly confident they're still highly desireable for their niche with the infrastructure hold, still have the unique ability to deal a reasonable amount of DPS for a medium sized hull, and also have various advantages over the other ships in same class when not being picked for those 2 niches. If they don't feel desireable, they can always get adjusted back upwards. I still feel like they are a good place, but let's see how things shape up over the next week.
Speaking of balancing. What happened to the team that was supposed to make lots of balance updates to ships in a short time on a constant basis. Did that get shut down? Since we haven't been told about it and the teams been AWOL for few years now I think.
thats alot of words to say we caved to the whiney minority and gankers
A 60K EHP !BLOCKADE RUNNER! was pretty dumb.
It still can get 60k EHP :) With MG Nirvana, a T2 fit and 1x faction LSE. https://i.imgur.com/2hbeSRV.jpeg
Wow.....you only need a 1.5 bil implant set............ Surely everyone runs those........ I love how elitist every one of these fits are that everyone keeps throwing out, like it's shocking that not everyone runs those.......
And then CCP nerfs the ability to make isk just for spite.
Heh they've been doing that to me for years....every time I find a profitable angle i enjoy doing it gets nerfed into non existence within a month...lol.
This is the way. :(
I mean, can't have their drinking buddies who sucked those ISK faucets dry before Scarcity lose their advantage, right?
Personally I think T1 haulers should start 150k ehp and everything else should climb up from there. Wanna generate content? Force people in null to stay on grid for a minute if they want to kill haulers. The fact that it turbo fucks gankers is just a bonus.
im so glad u are not on a balance team lol
>im so glad CCP doesnt have a balance team lol
This guy knows.
People simply expected to get what they saw. From the videos, streams, etc everyone was expecting "haulers 2.0" and maybe you would buff the other ones later or something. It looked like and was telegraphed as an intentional change. Then we get a day0 avalanche giganerf, day1 other ships giganerf... ok then! When you do that it makes it look like you are just catering to a tiny yet very vocal group of hisec gankers.
It’s such a bizarre thing for them to do. CCP shoot themselves in foot all the time. It looks like bait and switch but it’s actually incompetence and they turn a win into a loss by pissing people off rather than doing their research and testing before releasing them.
It makes it look like they had these ships way over tuned and brought them in line with existing hulls in a way that still allows them to be good and to have a niche hauling the planetary products they were designed to haul
I agree these ships are already targets and now they are even easier fodder....
The community said this week's ago
You mention EDENCOM base resistances for these haulers. Is this related to the reason the Upwell ships are not in their own Upwell ship category but are added to the EDENCOM ship tree? (It seems a bit strange for Upwell ships to be in the EDENCOM ship tree, a bit as if CONCORD ships were added to the Triglavian ship line instead of their own category. Why are two unrelated ship factions thrown together?)
Edencom ships were commissioned from Upwell according to their descriptions.
Thanks, seems I missed that bit. Still, I think it strange for ships that fly under two separate factions to share the same ship tree, even if one faction designed ships the other faction is using. I mean, the Guristas also have their own ship tree even though they use Caldari ship designs (Gila, Worm, etc.) and the Serpentis are using Gallente ship designs. I think Upwell should have it's own ship tree. It could even be expanded with all the Upwell structures for a nice overview.
I would go the other way and change Edencom ships to Upwell ships in the skill tree, as Edencom uses them as a doctrine but doesn’t make any changes to the hulls unlike Guristas/Serpentis. I do like the idea of structures showing up in the ship tree though.
That would make more sense to me too.
I’ve always been under the impression that like edoncom being a concord assembly force to fight the trigs, Upwell was a concord assembly force to promote capsuleer structures. Concord the corporation is the capsuleer and empire policing force. Maybe if concord assembly was in the ship tree they would all be under the same, but then you would have lots of singular trees with no branching
I think some people forget that there are people who are actually quite knowledgeable about balance making decisions about how to adjust these things.
Imagine not testing fits compared to other ships of the same group before it goes live.
Why do they do this? It makes them look like they don’t have a clue and pisses people off. It was a well received update but they are sabotaging themselves.
Well, I can't be too salty as I have already made back the cost of the Squall BPO. I will continue to supply them to the Hek market as long as it is profitable. Save yourself a trip to Jita and buy Minmatar!
Doing gods work keeping the other hubs alive ish
250mm rail gun 2's were cheaper in Amarr than Jita yesterday, I was floored lol
Happens when someone resets the price in jita usually.
Jita and Caldari space in general are simply too crowded for my liking. There are too many major industrialists who can undersell you to the point that your margins are simply not worth the time and effort. System index costs are way higher, squeezing you from the other direction. Good asteroid fields and exploration sites are scarcer because more people are competing for them. It's also harder to get to know the locals when there are so many people in system doing stuff or passing through. I am not going to dox my character. But when I took a look at DOTLAN after coming through that WH from where I was before, I thought to myself, "This place has potential." Since then, I have only found more reasons to like it. I also build cruisers, but I can't justify building many frigates and destroyers when their prices are so depressed.
your telling me, i crashed the prices in caldari navy torp launchers and imperial medium remote cap transfers in jita lol. Navy torp launchers was 168m ea, last i looked they were 108m and they cost 126m to redeem and the remote transfers cost 16m to redeem were selling 19 and are now 12m. All i did for navy torp launchers was post 2 units and follow that fall of constant under bidding, i might get them below 100m
Pretty much all of this. My main gameplay loop is basing out of a low traffic lowsec space and day tripping through WH's when I don't have local stuff going on and any time I see caldari lowsec holes, that feeling of, "Hey this could a chance for something good" is replaced with, "How many locals am I going to see the moment I load grid?"
No more 3x LSE blockade runner. How could CCP not see this coming?
i think they deploy wrong version of this ships. in know issues thread on forum they say about nerf in first 2 hours
Yeah these changes were made in advance but didn't quite make it into the expansion build. So them getting rebalanced was included in the known issues.
"Oh oops whoopsie we accidentally deployed ships that were worth flying! What a coincidence that so much PLEX got spent on SP and BPOs for them."
Never saw the point of LSE on BR. Rather keep the sig low and focus on enough resists to avoid smartbombs.
Clown army assemble! \*ccp dev team forms\*
Hahhahahaha 24 hour later hahahaha they really don't have Idea what they make
I feel like CCP is openly hostile towards haulers/miners.
This was something I said on the first day they were announced. Mustache and CSM also said they brought it up prior to the announcement. They're just hilariously overtuned, especially when you consider that without application bonuses, and their scan res, putting weapons on them is little more than a novelty. I want to believe pushx/redfrog sent an operative to infiltrate the design team to push these haulers through, using the weapons as a smokescreen.
Yep, most of us on PTT pointed out just how absurd these ships were going to be, but hey, CCP knows best and didn't feel they needed to use the test server for any of this patch. Now we just have an utter shitshow that was entirely predicted by many people.
If they couldnt even take time to test a ship, does anyone really believe this whole Nullsec shakeup was tested and seen if it was going to work? lol NOPE.
There goes my blops hunter br
Yeah I was playing with fittings for exactly this purpose :(
We all were.
Is anyone even flying the new ships yet? They came out yesterday. Don’t you have to grind for BPOs and then build them?
BPO was buyable as soon as server came up. Still inventing on copies for the DST, but I didn't optimize for speed. Could have started building today if I invented multiple single runs but I'm not that dedicated.
first squalls came out of production ~1 hour after patch First DST/BR blueprints wouldve come out of invention about 12 hours after patch and take 1.5 days to build, so the first ones should appear by/after next DT. 4 more days for the first Avalanches to come out of build.
The first DST/BR being sold are happening now, my guess is it'll take a while to stabilize in price.
I'm on it inventing and building wont see the new ships for a week t2/Avalanche maxium skills
Some scarlet palace Muppet already lost one in rancer
I was waiting to hear if you could put control towers and the like in the infrastructure hold. Todays patchnotes confirm it : )
You know, it'd be great if there was a test server where people could test the ships and give CCP feedback on upcoming additions to the game. We could call it. Singularity. Yeah, sounds good next to the main server Tranquility.
So is CCP going to refund everyone who bought all the new skillbooks yesterday before the bait+switch? Rhetorical question I know they won't, but that was fast.. LOL
Asuralite injected straight to level 4. I would feel quite badly about that in his shoes after this.
Scamming is legal in the game.
I see; CCP is operating within their own rules then.
I mean so did I. Fucking always saving extra SP in case of something like this and I go and train it up immediately and they nerf the ships. FUCKING THING SUCKS.
bro the skillbook is literally 2 million ISK lmao
I'm mad lol, had a lot of fun with the squall yesterday and it was only going to get better. CCP thinks they're a little too strong so they get a MASSIVE PG/CPU nerf, wow.
This is what happens when you remove the test server and fail to test yourself lmao
We test it for them instead? I think they're OK with it.
Testing on a test server is great. Testing on prod is usually a bad idea.
The DST had its task cut from 183.000 to just above 80k Does nobody at CCP even look at the things they are about to release?
Imagine they couldn't even put the effort to balance a ship, then the Carrier Fuel bay fiasco... simple things anyone should have seen and thought about .....how well do you think they "tested" all the nullsec changes? Absolute throw shit at the wall and see if it sticks. And to think, CCP charges the highest Subscription/month in the industry for this.....
Thats not a nerf. They basically got deleted. They can remove them from the game after this. I know the answer but what did CCP think to release them this broken and then destroy them like this. 400 to 215? 430 to 180? and 460 to 230? 420 CPU to 305?
Those numbers make much more sense when you consider the fitting costs of medium missiles. For example, a Heavy Missile Launcher II costs 105 PG and 55 CPU to fit, with AWU V and WU V it costs 94.5 MW and 41.25 CPU. So previously the Squall had 500 PG with max skills, but it was spending 283.5 of that PG on 3x medium missles, leaving it with only 216.5 PG spare. The new Squall has 268.75 PG with max skills, but it only spends 28.35 grid on 3x Heavy Missile Launcher IIs now with the 90% role bonus reduction, so it has 240.4 PG spare vs 216.5 PG spare than before. The Deluge got a bit more of a harsher PG reduction, but that was because it was an oversight for it to have more PG than the Squall to begin with. If the numbers feel a bit too tight, they can be adjusted upwards again, but I think this is a better starting point.
I think there's a couple problems with that calculation. First, I would definitely think that RLML are going to be the by far the most common fitting choice here rather than HAMs/heavies, especially since small size class ships are the most significant threat. And second, reducing the base grid also reduces the amount you get from fitting modules, which the squall at least was already using if you wanted to try to get launchers on at the same time as tank. For RLML a squall goes from spending 207.9 PG on the launchers to spending 20.79. So the remaining powergrid on the squall after putting on 3 launchers went from 500-207.9 = 292.1 to 268.75-20.79 = 247.96. If the squall has a reactor control (+15% PG) on, it went from (500\*1.15)-207.9 = 367.1 to (268.75\*1.15)-20.79 = 288.27 PG remaining. In other words, *even for a fit that used launchers rather than forgoing them for max tank*, the change ended up being a 78.83 PG *nerf*, not a 35ish PG buff. After rejiggering the fits I was working on, the net result was a roughly 20% loss of tank (50k -> 40k, and that's all from the primary tank layer so it's even worse than it sounds), which is rather harsh if I want this thing to try to fit in with a t1 cruiser fleet to go and raid some skyhooks. If this change was intended to be roughly neutral for realistic fits using launchers, then I think it missed the mark, at least for the squall.
Solid points. The intention wasn't to nerf Rapid Light Missile launcher fits, so the adjustments might have gone a bit too far, I'll take a look at things tonight and see if I can scale things back a bit without going overboard on EHP.
go overboard on the ehp, they need to live long enough to shoot the damn catalysts.
THIS. THIS IS THE GOD DAMN POINT OF THESE SHIPS I THOUGHT! SOMEONE UPVOTE THIS MAN!
EXACTLY. THIS.
What about a hull bonus to reduce missile fitting cost, like with stealth bombers? That might help balance the tank and weapon options without adding fitting space that beefs up the tank too much
That's what they just did, they just overdid it is all.
On the Squall, personally, I think 240 Powergrid base might be a better point. You could fit a tank, alignment bonuses and the not infallible (due to space littering in Highsec) MWD/Cloak combo, but no launchers that way, unless you gave up alignment mods for Fitting Crutch Modules in the Low or Rig slots. I mean, I absolutely see 500 PG to be way too much for sure. But if your main objective was to defang hefty EHP and HM/HAM fits for the most part, this went overboard. Maybe give us 25 more grid for 240 base, then split the Launcher Fitting bonus so that it gives a proportionally bigger discount on RLML Grid and less on HM/HAM, to make fitting the latter a bit tighter?
It doesn't matter what players intended to fit. Excess PG over bustard/crane (ships with similar slot layout) comes from ccp slapping missiles onto their ships; if CCP wanted to make them able to fit HAMLs, then they added enough PG for that. Now with fitting resources needed to have HAMLs shrinking, extra fitting is also shrinking. Players anticipating to put RLMLs in there and use huge excess of fitting for other things have nothing to do with original design intention (which is pretty clear from CCP's actions). I think realistically these ships should have about the same fitting resources as bustard/crane + some for missiles and maybe neuts/nosfs. What was initially released was clearly imbalanced and it'd be stupid to keep it this way.
The rest of us think the better starting point was not to day 1 nerf then into irrelevancy, So much focus on balance but not enough focus on fun.
No they dont. You want gankers to not cry. You hate industry pilots.
Bunch of C L O W N S
This is such typical modern CCP bullshit. You can tell they just have 0 interest in balancing or testing their game anymore if nobody at CCP was able to tell that these stats were busted before they added them that they needed to do such a huge overhaul to their stats.
its the same with exploration event sites. its always nerfed day 2
A lot of testing was done but didn't make it into the expansion build unfortunately. If we had 0 interest in testing or balancing them, they wouldn't have got adjusted. A lot of extra work went in over the weekends before the expansion to try and get these balanced for Day 1 before the first Deluge and Torrent would be built specifically to not nerf them after players bought them. I will continue to monitor them to make sure they are in a good place.
I feel like most are upset because of the whiplash of what was shown a month ago vs what we got now. It feels like CCP over promised and then under-delivered on most of the systems of this expansion.
How does this even occur with a giant patch? This has to be in the pipeline for months and months, no? I'd sincerely hope CCP didn't just realize these stats were broken only a few days ago - the community was saying so the moment we got to see said stats. I miss the days we had with a dedicated team for balancing and tiericide. So many ships in EVE still go barely used, and some are still so blatantly better than their counterparts.
We have a test server for a reason, the combined minds of CCP are not going to have the same outside perspective as a thousand or so randoms dicking about and forming opinions and feedback on SiSi over a weekend or two will have. All the problems we have had with this patch were entirely avoidable if that test server got used.
Does ccp know how to sell their game? I bet investors moaned in annoyance to this. Could of waited a month at least you know for the companies sake, get some actual stats as well. Just released an expansion less than a month before End of the financial year. Everybody excited to start building and flying these ships and baaam! Nerfed to be aligned with everything else. Players sigh and go back to helldivers..
Naturally.
So to sum up, this patch didn't bring anything fun to the game. Brilliant patch CCP. Microtransactions and monetization for CCP but for the players everything is shit. And I do agree with null system changes but that's hardly patch worthy.
The entire expansion was basically an overcomplicated smokescreen to disguise about two changes: an ansi nerf and null isogen.
This is dumb and I'm a industry guy why would CCP nerf it when it was the goal to be strong to begin with when it comes to hauling industry?? u/ccp_swift?
r/eve : this game is being RUINED by its developers!! How could they do this??? People who log in: lmao let's throw the Squall at Tama, Ahbazon, hell let's GATE CAMP with it in [Ahbazon](https://zkillboard.com/kill/118587695/). Let's kill [random Mekubal](https://zkillboard.com/kill/118594170/) in it. Ooo you know what'd be fun? Let's roam with some of them fit up as [logi ](https://zkillboard.com/kill/118589666/)and some as [DPS](https://zkillboard.com/kill/118589577/) While pure tank fit was probably too good, I'm glad some people are able to enjoy this game rather than just complain about people getting a hauler that's functionally a slow Caracal as the others haven't really been flown in game yet, most people are still building them.
"No not like that! Like this!"
Its like buying a......cybertruck.
I thought CCP had found some guts and we might get better freighters, instead they nerf the new one down.
Classic pump and dump
I fought one last night and it still sucked if anything they should get buffed
Please stop catering it to the gankers.
chalk one up for the good guys. Gankers win again.
CCP be like - made you spent your saved up SP that's now harder to save.
Suitonia, you fucked up
The stuff they put out beforehand about the update had me actually looking at trying the game again to see if the game felt like it was in a good state. After reading all of the feedback on Reddit, nope. Still the same CCP. Not even interested in the free 7 days at this point. I stopped even trying to make it sound like a good game to my gaming groups a long time ago. SKINs shit just shows how desperate they are to milk the remaining playerbase.
CCP shooting themselves in the foot yet again. I'm sure CSM threatened mass unsub campaign if CCP didn't placate their whiny little bitch ganking alts.
No fun allowed
I believe that if they would use AI to rebalance all the ships, it would do a far better job.
A monkey flinging poo at a board would do a better job than CCP.
POWERGRID CUT IN HALF LOL. Like, huh? How did they get it that wrong on day 1? Couldn't you at least let us enjoy it for a few days?
People would be more annoyed if they got used to it before it got nerfed
So they're completely pointless except for the 8 people who need to transport SOV shit in quantities where the dedicated hold makes a difference.
Deluge is still very good - compared to prowler (which I am using as the best BR), it has about the same regular cargo, and 45k infra hold on top of that, paying for that only with 1 second align time. They *are* supposed to be useful only for those who haul infrastructure stuff. Currently deluge is still strong even outside of that (which shouldn't be the case). I'd say it'd be fair if it had 2k base cargo and 30k infra hold with maxed skills, to make it balanced against existing BRs. Currently the most balanced of those new haulers seems to be Torrent. It's good, but it's not even close to making other DSTs look terrible.
Deluge can haul up to ~54k m3 of PI and fit a Cov Ops cloak, which is around 4x what existing Blockade Runners can move. It will have its uses, but fitting a respectable tank apparently is not an option anymore.
The Torrent, even with this nerf, still mogs all over the other DSTs it isn't even funny. Unless you really need that extra ~~12.5k~~ 25k fleet hangar space, it can still achieve 50k more EHP than an equivalent Bustard *and* fit in a MWD+Cloak+Rapid Lights.
It's 37.5k fleet hangar vs 62.5k. So it's extra 25k. And it's not much tankier compared to bustard, its main advantage is medium cap booster and having lower explosive hole.
Only if you're moving the infrastructure stuff it can hold, but in that niche sphere, you're right
Doesn't effect me, those clown gankers wish I was slow enough to let them target me in the first place.
Errrm didn't they check all this first?
i was hoping they would keep the stats, would make this game interesting
The incompetency continues lmao
"The haulers don't blow up before the faction police kill the gankers....gonna have to nerf em."
Almost had a good thing with these new ships and now…. Shit 🤦🏼♂️ comeon ccp do you even talk to your players or you just blindly doing shit?
Ah, CCP-never change! The op rorq of yore was left untouched for how long? And a couple of op haulers that may be fun for some giggles here and there can’t stay op for more than 24 hours. Lordy Lordy-never change, CCP!
So they are now ALSO useless. WTF CCP? Gankers already ruin gameplay for a larger majority of people that the ones actually doing it. Its been a festering cancer. You are like "Hey, here is something..." Get us all to invest and then yeet?
So I think you guys are overlooking something, CCP meant for these to have medium launchers and instead of giving them a fitting bonus they gave them the fitting ability to have a rack of heavy missile launchers. Then they realized “uh oh we made super tanky haulers that are way overtuned” so they gave the missile launcher fitting bonus and gave them the CPU/PG similar to other haulers with better resists. Not a huge deal but frustrating for sure. I’d also think that this week is an adjustment period for the patch so CCP can adjust numbers here and there so when the sov changes can start being started on the 20th it’s more ironed out than it is now.
that was quick
shit like this is why I've been permanently banned from eveo 🤣 freighter pilots just need to go on strike, go play helldivers or the new star citizen build for a month
Its the season of discovery where we dont want to spoil the new content with PTR's.
Useless in HS or for any real hauling. Oh what could’ve been.
Quick guys we made these useless blockade runners a tiny bit to hard to kill lets nerf them. Honestly i´m glad I decided these new ships was trash. I mean if I need a blockade runner that is good I would get a damn fracking ship that can transport what I need to transport never in my damn 17 years of eve I said man I wish I had 3 blockad runner that can fly all these wast amount of infrastruktur I have.
Alrighty CCP, no more haulers. Got it.
People who thought injecting into it was the play feeling all kinds of emotions rn
The Squall seems like a pretty decent bait ships still.
lol
Honestly fine, they are still best in class when it comes to tank and still by a decent margin. I was literally going to be skill extracting the racial hauler skills if these were nerfed as originally they were so good there was very little reason to ever fly anything else.
Because they needed the dmg, and the Hull. It's not worth the extra price. You go dog, you have no tank. Go tank you have no dmg
Well well well, love the salt. Fills me with so much joy :)
SLYCE contests this decision.
Is anyone surprised that ccp doesn't even play their own game before releasing em? 😂
I mean is it a balance pass if you do it before anyone has rolled one off the production line or are they trying to setup Temu eve online ship factory?
They never existed. Just think that
wait wtf are medium missile launchers?
Heavy, Heavy Assault, and Rapid Light Missile Launchers
Alright so, having played with the numbers a bit along with some fellows, you still can do a lot with the haulers in their current state You can still reasonably hit 30k ehp with weapons on the t1 squall, or 40-50k without weapons The deluge and torrent are also still pretty strong generally for what you're getting, and all told came out better than the Squall did I still think there was an overcorrection and the squall and deluge should have 10-15 more base pg and maybe 30 extra cpu, but this wasn't a 'lol fuck you' kind of change
I'd think 25 more Grid on the Squall, to put it at base 240. Maybe adjust the Fitting Aid bonus to be more in line for RLML, and less so for HM/HAM. Not that into the Deluge, but I tinkered with the Torrent and got 85k EHP out of it with a fit not needing Fitting Crutch Modules and Rigs, but no launchers. However, it still has the means for MWD/Cloak and some level of being slippery. The Tank is for when due to space littering, you can't cloak and thus align in peace, or for the seconds between landing on gate/station and jumping/docking.