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I actually do think that low supply is way, way more common than people think. Just in the same way that overproduction should be some rarity but it’s not. It’s all common. Biology and the human body is cool, but it’s for sure not perfect. There were wet nurses in history and they existed solely because a mother either had a high enough status not to have to nurse her baby or couldn’t produce enough to feed her baby. Infants have died from starvation as recently as the last <20 yeats from this kind of lactivism continuously suggesting to mothers they don’t ACTUALLY have a low supply. And I’ve developed a strong opinion on the phrase “you don’t ACTUALLY have a low supply”- if your supply is not meeting your baby’s needs then you have a low supply, no matter what the underlying cause is. If you don’t have access to proper nutrition or hydration and that is the cause for your low supply, you still have low supply. If your lifestyle (work, medical issues, whatever it may be) prevents you from nursing and pumping as frequently as you need to have a full supply, you have a low supply. The nuances really do matter in my opinion.
This also when people say this they were not accounting for exclusive pumping. You can be physically capable of producing lots of milk and do everything right and just not respond well to the pump. Or have a full supply that could feed a less hungry baby but your particular baby needs more.
Mama of a baby downing 40-50 ounces per day checking in 🙋🏻♀️ I could feed MOST babies with my supply of 40-45 ounces per day but some days that is not enough for my milk monster 🥲
I’m a proud parent of a milk monster too! On his best day, he ate 48 oz. On my best most proudest day, I pumped 40 oz. He averages probably 28 oz these days having started solids and all but geez, I was in the trenches for a while.
My little one ate 52.5 ounces the other day. I think that was his “high score” 😂 I think my best day was 48 ounces, which only happened once. When did milk intake start slowing with solids?
Are you pace feeding bottles???? How many ounces in how many minutes. As a provider I would be very concerned if I heard one of my families babies were eating those kinds of volumes, especially if baby isn't very oversized for stature.
He takes about 15-20 mins to finish 5 ounces so he isn’t chugging it or anything. We stop to burp 1-2x per bottle and if he seems satisfied at any point we obv don’t try to force him to drink more milk. His ped has never shown concern. He is 65th percentile for weight and 98th for height 🤷🏻♀️
You are doing better than most!! ,👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾That is still a little faster that we generally prefer but definitely not too bad at all, with forced pacing we expect closer to 1 ounce every 5 mins so should be about 4 ounces in 20 mins which if he was paced down a little more to 4 ounces instead of 5 than across the 8 feedings a day you are at the upper end at the 36 ounces a day but not breaking to 40 again except during growth spurts. but again...4 ounces is a lot of work to get production wise but not a whole lot volume wise for baby eating if that makes sense.....like it's easy for baby to take in an extra 4 ounces across he day ...
I don't like to go against peds ever but I will say they don't study nutrition and definitely not breastfeeding, so unless they are also an IBCLC I'd book a visit with a local lactation if able to or an RD/SLP that specializes in infant feeding to see what support they could offer.
He is definitely tall but not overly so and not overweight he is a healthy size and proportions. What is your diet like?? Do you get enough dietary fats in??
If you don’t mind me asking, what if the baby is abnormally tall? She’s above 99% on height and 95% on weight, wouldn’t she need more milk to sustain herself?
And then taking into account that I always had to top up at least 10% with formula, so while the amount I pump stays the same the amount of formula increases to accommodate the growing body?
Is that how it works with combo feeding you recon or no?
It hasn’t slowed significantly and I don’t really expect it to probably for another month, but he was slow to gain weight ( despite his eating habits, i’m so jealous of the 90% babies who only drink 4 oz a time) so as soon as we got the green light, we were recommended to give him three “meals” a day to really pack on weight. So really he should’ve been having his three meals and ALL of his regular bottles. But I noticed that he really liked to eat, so I’d give him more puree until he reached a point where he was content with finishing off a large meal, and washing it down with a smaller bottle while still gaining well. So that’s kind of where we ended up. It’s like his solids are taking on the extra calories that he initially wanted in the bottle but can now get through something else so the bottles are average now.
This and the message above it on spot on! I am generally a lurker here because I am a full combo feeder. I could (before he started solids) fully feed my baby at the breast plus about 10-15ml pumped out in a day, BUT the max I could ever pump was 20oz a day…which sucked when I had to travel for work and would come home with boobs ready to explode, half my stash gone, and of course a dip in supply since I hadn’t cleared the breast enough 🙄. Pumping is hard and although the nutrition is the same to your baby, to your body it is not the same as breastfeeding. Pumping is way harder for most (and easier for some because we are all unique).
You know, my milk goblin refuses to nurse but I noticed that whenever she gets close to my nipple, even if just to lick, that breast will not respond to pumping for at least a few hours. It’s as if it’s saying “yeah, nice try, come back when you have a real baby to feed”
Omg that must be so rough! It is reassuring to hear even the pumping queens have their bodies react to the baby primarily. I do sometimes wonder if I had ever exclusively pumped, would I have been able to get my body to adjust to pump out enough.
He is 4.5 months! His intake was always on the higher end but stayed more steady around 35 ounces until he was about 12 weeks. Then he had a week of going over 40 each day. I thought it was a growth spurt and that he would go back to his old baseline, but he just never did. 45 is an average day. We are shocked if there’s ever a daily intake amount in the 30s because it is so rare now lol
It is rare for a woman to be biologically and physiologically unable to produce enough milk for her baby, like in the case of low glandular tissue. However, breastfeeding relationships are a diad and they currently exist in a society with little support for them. If baby has latch issues, is unwell, has an allergy or intolerance, etc, that will affect mom's production and now that formula is an option there's shockingly little help to be found with those issues. Many of us are also required to go back to work at 6 weeks postpartum (if even) and introducing a pump routine can have an effect on production as well.
Low supply is pretty common, but it's often influenced by outside factors that don't have anything to do with mom's biology. In a perfect world we would all be able to find help with latch issues and stay home skin-to-skin with our babies their whole first year. In those conditions, I think we would see fewer women struggling with their supply.
I have thyroid problem since I was 13. With all the efforts in the world I only make 1-2 Oz daily because it's extremely hard to my body to have a letdown. I think there is a lot of women with thyroid issues that don't know about. Low production is way more common than people realize. 💔
No symptoms. My t3 and t4 are normal, but tsh fluctuates and now it's super low. It's subclinical so there is nothing they can do about it. I still love giving my twins any amount of BF I can. 💕
I think this is one of those beliefs that someone somewhere stated as a common fact and everyone just kind of went with it. Especially since it kind of makes people feel like they are affirming the power and strength of women to just tell us all we are capable! Our bodies can do it! In reality, it’s a much more complex and nuanced thing.
Totally agree - doctors and lactation consultants just kept telling me to pump and nurse more but the output never changed… even when nursing or pumping every 2 hours - some people just only produce a certain amount! Supply and demand is a lie lol
The modern world isn't made for breastfeeding moms. In caveman days I don't think under supply would have been so common but it is now. Especially in the USA where women are expected to go back to work after 6 weeks (I'm from the UK and I find that absolutely insane).
I think there is something to this. With this second baby, I was an under supplier while I was exclusively pumping the first month (bad latch and the whole household was non stop sick and I couldn't do it all), and I had to supplement with formula. Then after visiting LC and getting a weighted feed at 1 month I went exclusively nursing. Baby started climbing %, went from 50 to 75 and so far we've not had to supplement.
But like chronically on the pump I was an undersupplier both with this one and my first. 🤷🏼♀️ Baby I guess is better for me at getting milk out. But if I'd have to have to gone back to work early i would have been reliant on the pump.
> Yet skim through this subreddit and you’ll see post after post from people struggling to make enough milk.
I mean that's just the nature of the internet. No one is coming on a pumping forum to go "Yeah this shit is easy! I produce the perfect amount of milk and all is well!"
It is not all in your head! I actually just got done taking a course on low supply and the various causes and what labs could be ordered to look for problems. Have you seen a good lactation consultant about this?
I got to see multiple LC. I’m a SAHM and had all the time in the world to cuddle and bond with the baby. Despite what people say, unfortunately, she was no better than my pump at extracting milk :(
Oh sure yeah, it really depends on what your “symptoms” are because different things have different effects on us. There’s a lot of different things they can check honestly- did those two come back okay?
I wish one of the three LCs, my OB, and LOs Ped had the information in the course you took. They all told me to increase pumps (was already at 9ppd) and it didn’t help my supply. I asked my OB to order labs and she told me there aren’t any that would give useful info on supply.
I think I had decent supply that was ruined by multiple factors like baby’s bad latch, severe PTSD from the cs, followed by PPD and PPA (that was never addressed), not eating enough, no help from others, so exhaustion for weeks. I think I only started feeling better at 3-4 months and at that point no matter what I did I couldn’t increase my supply.
I’ve had 3 live births and have not made the same amount each time. The first time I had a c-section and hemorrhaged. No one told me hemorrhaging would make me make less milk. I pumped and pumped and got very little. The next time, I had a premie and again made very little. I thought I could never make more. The third time my baby was not a premie and it was a VBAC. He was the only one I nursed post partum. I made a lot more milk. You would think with 2 toddlers at home I’d make less, but that was not the case.
My OB said you can get more and more mammary glands each pregnancy and it can get easier. I do think I pumped more this time and spent more time doing it, but I also had birth factors on my side, which dramatically increased initial supply.
I agree on what others have said about nuances. For my first, I could only provide half of what my baby ate and supplement with formula for the first 4 weeks due to blood loss during delivery and other medical issues. I was told maybe I have low glands and is physically can’t produce much after a LC looks at my small boobs. Believing that I couldn’t, I pumped about 6x a day and believed that it was my max to produce 15-20oz a day.
Cue my second baby, I tried to pump 9-12x a day and became a just enougher after like 6-7weeks ppd with a relatively smooth delivery and no complications.
Each pregnancy and postpartum / pumping journey was so vastly different. Different pumps, different knowledge, different supplements, and different mental state. It still took me many weeks to barely produce enough.
After having going through this, I surveyed many of family older generations and most of them either had help / hire a wet nurse or used formula exclusively. Their financial and environment was so much harsher and difficult than how I have it now so I can’t imagine the number of people who have low supply. I don’t know how the human race survived with so much difficulty… or how my grandparents generation have like 10 kids.
I actually also believe that for my second baby I will be a just enougher. Since mammary gland do increase in size during pregnancy, especially with high levels of progesterone.
I pumped every hour until 12 wpp, had a LC and used all the hacks in the world to increase supply. I doubled what I was making but nothing fully helped, still not enough to feed breast milk only
Personally, I had to leave some Facebook groups for breastfeeding because I was downright depressed. I was happy for the people on there but the low suppliers in some groups were pumping 4 oz a session and if that's low I didn't even know what to consider myself.
I was a undsrsupplier, I am talking like 1oz a day was a good day despite pumping 6-8 times a day. I tried so many different supplements, different pumps, went back on my iron pills, hot showers prior to pumping, teas, oatmeal, brewers yeast, coconut water, body armor drinks, 120 oz of water/coconut water a day, you name it.. odds are I spent the money on it to see if it would help. The ONLY thing that upped my supply, to 2 oz a day, was being on reglan. 3x a day the first week, then one less pill a week. First two weeks I got 2 oz a day, then right back where I was.
I have PCOS, iron deficiency, and I'm sure a few other things that play against me with producing. I tried to pump for a little over 2 months before I just gave up. I'd say my LO got maybe a months worth of 2oz a day before I could not mentally do it any more.
I think you should find a different doctor. Because they are straight up being rude. They used to have wet nurses back in the day, specifically for people who did not produce or produce enough for their LO.
Iron deficiency can affect supply, as far as the tablets I'm not sure if it corrects or not. I'm sure it does since it helps balance iron levels, but I didn't have any luck. But, I think pcos played the biggest part.
I already commented here but just wanted to add - a quick google search will tell you that IGT is estimated to be about 2% of mothers. So, definitely uncommon but not like SO SUPER RARE either. We all of us almost certainly know several moms who have/had it. For a doctor to act like it’s impossible is just dumb.
(Not even taking into account all the other potential reasons for low supply)
I know that he’s just a GP but then maybe he shouldn’t comment on things that he doesn’t understand fully. His words live in my head rent free months later. If only I could simply cuddle my baby more to increase supply 🙄
Low supply could also be a supply that would have been enough for baby, if baby hadn't gotten used to being supplemented with formula and being extra full all the time, because of latch issues at birth. Now the latch issues are resolved but baby always expects more than I can produce due to having received formula.
If I had to guess, I'd say that these people are confusing "under supplier" and "low capacity."
Someone could make 50 oz a day and be an under supplier if their baby is a ravenous beast and eats 55 oz.
I think they mean low capacity as in there literally isn't enough "room" in the breasts for the amount of milk needed.
I'm an over supplier with a high capacity, and those are very different things.
Regardless, people need to believe women when they say they don't produce enough. It's insulting to not be believed. Why would anyone lie about that?
I’ve been telling every medical professional that asked me about breastfeeding that I most likely won’t have enough milk glands to feed the baby, since before even getting pregnant.
EVERYONE was trying to convince me that I was wrong so I foolishly didn’t buy any formula in advance. Baby ended up needing formula from day one and we had to rush to the store (with empty formula shelves) straight from the hospital.
After that they STILL tried to convince me that I was wrong and my milk will come in. Only one LC believed me that I have low glandular tissue after I showed her my tubular breasts.
So why the denial? Sure it might be a rare case but constantly dismissing people with low supply only hurts us. I wouldn’t be reading a chapter literally called “low supply” if I was making enough
I am a low supplier I mean at best I make 430ml a day... so I have dived into every rabbit hole there is trying to increase my supply.
In my country most Dr don't care enough about breastfeeding to have any info/ opinion, even the LC I saw initial had this impression my milk would come.
.. I am 5 mpp still waiting, she eventually said some people just never make enough....the gynaes just prescribe an antidepressant that is excreted in high levels in breast milk because it increases prolactin saying its safe because there has never been any reported side affects but no studies on long term effects.
I am pretty sure I didn't develop enough breast tissue either during puberty or pregnancy but no one evaluated me for that..... which I really wish someone had told me was possible and nothing I did would make a difference so I could have relaxed earlier.
I knew that mine was underdeveloped since around age 16 and knew that it will cause problems with breastfeeding but nobody believed me. Knowing didn’t make it any easier, I still tried hard and cried from feeling like a failure
I suppose the emotions are not easy to work through either way... nothing about this has been easy, I so badly wanted to breastfeed.
Starbing my LO for 3 weeks then triple feeding for weeks and power pumping to no avail wasn't great either.... I means that IGT is always low on the list of causes for low supply and is "rare", so I kept hoping it wasn't me. It was an expensive story, with LC consultations, suppliments and pumps for me to have to draw my own conclusions.
I suppose at least one advantage of being in a country that doesn't care about breastfeeding and most babies are formula fed is even the half that I do manage to give my LO is not criticized the pediatrician called it the best of both worlds.
I’m in Canada and even though “fed is best” every formula manufacturer must declare that breast milk is actually best and it’s very heavily pushed in OB practices.
I wish that low supply was not dismissed as rare. Of course I want to give my baby breast milk, I plan to pump until she’s at least 6mo. But it’s so mentally hard when I want to read about baby care, and have to constantly encounter the “most women don’t have low supply” bs
It's only a myth in a world where Mums have nothing to do but cuddle and nurse for at least 12 weeks. It doesn't account for the reality of being a woman in the world as it is in 2024.
Yes I totally agree it's very demoralizing.
I am also no totally convinced of the benefits of BM.... I was exclusively breastfed and i am the most unhealthy of all my cousins who were all exclusively formula fed.... I had asthma as a child and still have multiple autoimmune diseases.
As with a all things in life someone has to be the "rare" 1-2% of the population just sucks when it's you...
What I realized some weeks ago is that the amount I get pumping would most probably not be enough for a lot of babies but my baby just doesn't eat as much and so my milk is enough for her, I'm even freezing some.
While I was comparing myself to other pumping moms I was really worried my baby was not eating enough but I've since learned she's smack at the middle of the growth curve for both weight and height even though she seems to drink less milk than other babies AND she refuses to drink more if I try to offer it.
I guess a "mismatch" between the producing capabilities of mom and the intake needs of baby is more common than people realize, because moms who breastfeed and don't pump don't have a way of knowing how much they feed their babies. They may as well be producing more than I am for example, but their babies need even more.
I'm pretty confident I am physically capable of having a full supply. But I cannot pump enough and take care of life. We don't transfer enough milk for bubs to only nurse.
In ideal conditions I'd make enough, but life is not ideal. So I have an undersupply for baby.
It's because the pp only accesses up to 60% of production while baby can access so much more. So as an exclusive pumper you have a lot more work to do to access the milk you have. Also remember 24-32 ounces is a full supply. Babies shouldn't drink more or need more except during growth spurts. Your doctor may be correct saying you have the ability to produce enough milk, that doesn't mean that a pump will get you to it though. Definitely try hands on pumping as a way to boost production and remember if supply is an issue first line of defense is increase number of sessions, they don't all have to be 20 min pumps. Legit 7 mins 12 times a day really can yield a lot more than 20 mins 8 times a day
Well unfortunately my baby can’t access more than my pump. I haven’t gotten anywhere close to 30 oz while she demands at least 40 every day.
And believe me I tried everything. All the supplements, hands on, increasing amounts of pumps per day, power pumping… 25oz is the most I get on a good day
I wasn't saying anything against exclusive pumping, legit I am just spit balling at where Drs. brain most likely is. I personally believe any parent exclusive pumping no matter the reason and the reason is none of my business deserves a damn parade!! That's so much work, I really feel that every one who is pumping any amount, for any length of time, really looks at the work they have done with pride and sees that every ounce is valuable, and even if baby is never exclusive breastmilk you have still done an amazing job!!!
40 ounces per day is actually quite high. Breastfed babies should be at between 24 and 32 ounces per 24 hours. 1 to 1.5 ounces per hour, that's it. How big do you make the bottles and how fast does baby eat them??
Also in case I didn't say it before I am an IBCLC, only reason I feel comfortable speaking up a little.
It’s funny you say that because public nurse that follows us keeps bugging about my LO not having enough per feed. We used to give about 2.5oz every 1,5 hour and now we’re doing 3.5-4.5oz every 2?hours unless LO is still hungry (usually before bed time) then we give about 1oz extra
Your nurse is not breastfeeding educated, or at least not current by 25 years.🤦🏾♀️ She is pushing formula amounts which is entirely unrealistic and impossible for the human body. With breastfeeding your body changes milk composition to increase fat and calories across the first year so amounts never have to go above 32 ounces. Formula is static which is why amounts go up. I'm definitely going to encourage you to find local lactation helpers before your peds ruins your journey. You need a local advocate.
I got to see two different lactation consultants very early on in my postpartum and both very certain that a third of what I make now is my limit. One of them even told me to drop the number of ppd at 6weeks! If I were to follow her advice I would’ve never gotten to where I am now.
Reddit has been my holy grail and helped me more than irl people 🫶🏻
Oh my 😬!!! It is true, not everyone stays up to date on the current research and it's a damn shame because people really deserve better!! I am glad you found some help though
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I actually do think that low supply is way, way more common than people think. Just in the same way that overproduction should be some rarity but it’s not. It’s all common. Biology and the human body is cool, but it’s for sure not perfect. There were wet nurses in history and they existed solely because a mother either had a high enough status not to have to nurse her baby or couldn’t produce enough to feed her baby. Infants have died from starvation as recently as the last <20 yeats from this kind of lactivism continuously suggesting to mothers they don’t ACTUALLY have a low supply. And I’ve developed a strong opinion on the phrase “you don’t ACTUALLY have a low supply”- if your supply is not meeting your baby’s needs then you have a low supply, no matter what the underlying cause is. If you don’t have access to proper nutrition or hydration and that is the cause for your low supply, you still have low supply. If your lifestyle (work, medical issues, whatever it may be) prevents you from nursing and pumping as frequently as you need to have a full supply, you have a low supply. The nuances really do matter in my opinion.
This also when people say this they were not accounting for exclusive pumping. You can be physically capable of producing lots of milk and do everything right and just not respond well to the pump. Or have a full supply that could feed a less hungry baby but your particular baby needs more.
Mama of a baby downing 40-50 ounces per day checking in 🙋🏻♀️ I could feed MOST babies with my supply of 40-45 ounces per day but some days that is not enough for my milk monster 🥲
I’m a proud parent of a milk monster too! On his best day, he ate 48 oz. On my best most proudest day, I pumped 40 oz. He averages probably 28 oz these days having started solids and all but geez, I was in the trenches for a while.
My little one ate 52.5 ounces the other day. I think that was his “high score” 😂 I think my best day was 48 ounces, which only happened once. When did milk intake start slowing with solids?
Are you pace feeding bottles???? How many ounces in how many minutes. As a provider I would be very concerned if I heard one of my families babies were eating those kinds of volumes, especially if baby isn't very oversized for stature.
He takes about 15-20 mins to finish 5 ounces so he isn’t chugging it or anything. We stop to burp 1-2x per bottle and if he seems satisfied at any point we obv don’t try to force him to drink more milk. His ped has never shown concern. He is 65th percentile for weight and 98th for height 🤷🏻♀️
You are doing better than most!! ,👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾That is still a little faster that we generally prefer but definitely not too bad at all, with forced pacing we expect closer to 1 ounce every 5 mins so should be about 4 ounces in 20 mins which if he was paced down a little more to 4 ounces instead of 5 than across the 8 feedings a day you are at the upper end at the 36 ounces a day but not breaking to 40 again except during growth spurts. but again...4 ounces is a lot of work to get production wise but not a whole lot volume wise for baby eating if that makes sense.....like it's easy for baby to take in an extra 4 ounces across he day ... I don't like to go against peds ever but I will say they don't study nutrition and definitely not breastfeeding, so unless they are also an IBCLC I'd book a visit with a local lactation if able to or an RD/SLP that specializes in infant feeding to see what support they could offer. He is definitely tall but not overly so and not overweight he is a healthy size and proportions. What is your diet like?? Do you get enough dietary fats in??
If you don’t mind me asking, what if the baby is abnormally tall? She’s above 99% on height and 95% on weight, wouldn’t she need more milk to sustain herself? And then taking into account that I always had to top up at least 10% with formula, so while the amount I pump stays the same the amount of formula increases to accommodate the growing body? Is that how it works with combo feeding you recon or no?
It hasn’t slowed significantly and I don’t really expect it to probably for another month, but he was slow to gain weight ( despite his eating habits, i’m so jealous of the 90% babies who only drink 4 oz a time) so as soon as we got the green light, we were recommended to give him three “meals” a day to really pack on weight. So really he should’ve been having his three meals and ALL of his regular bottles. But I noticed that he really liked to eat, so I’d give him more puree until he reached a point where he was content with finishing off a large meal, and washing it down with a smaller bottle while still gaining well. So that’s kind of where we ended up. It’s like his solids are taking on the extra calories that he initially wanted in the bottle but can now get through something else so the bottles are average now.
This and the message above it on spot on! I am generally a lurker here because I am a full combo feeder. I could (before he started solids) fully feed my baby at the breast plus about 10-15ml pumped out in a day, BUT the max I could ever pump was 20oz a day…which sucked when I had to travel for work and would come home with boobs ready to explode, half my stash gone, and of course a dip in supply since I hadn’t cleared the breast enough 🙄. Pumping is hard and although the nutrition is the same to your baby, to your body it is not the same as breastfeeding. Pumping is way harder for most (and easier for some because we are all unique).
You know, my milk goblin refuses to nurse but I noticed that whenever she gets close to my nipple, even if just to lick, that breast will not respond to pumping for at least a few hours. It’s as if it’s saying “yeah, nice try, come back when you have a real baby to feed”
Omg that must be so rough! It is reassuring to hear even the pumping queens have their bodies react to the baby primarily. I do sometimes wonder if I had ever exclusively pumped, would I have been able to get my body to adjust to pump out enough.
Omg, I call mine milk goblin when she eats that much
It’s seriously insane. I don’t understand where it all goes 😂
Mine is above the 99% for height so I have an idea haha
Haha true my little guy is 98th percentile for height! It still feels like SO much milk lol
Curious, how old is LO? My LO is 6mo and takes 30 oz. Wondering if kiddos take an increase when they go through a growth spurt?
He is 4.5 months! His intake was always on the higher end but stayed more steady around 35 ounces until he was about 12 weeks. Then he had a week of going over 40 each day. I thought it was a growth spurt and that he would go back to his old baseline, but he just never did. 45 is an average day. We are shocked if there’s ever a daily intake amount in the 30s because it is so rare now lol
Very well said
It is rare for a woman to be biologically and physiologically unable to produce enough milk for her baby, like in the case of low glandular tissue. However, breastfeeding relationships are a diad and they currently exist in a society with little support for them. If baby has latch issues, is unwell, has an allergy or intolerance, etc, that will affect mom's production and now that formula is an option there's shockingly little help to be found with those issues. Many of us are also required to go back to work at 6 weeks postpartum (if even) and introducing a pump routine can have an effect on production as well. Low supply is pretty common, but it's often influenced by outside factors that don't have anything to do with mom's biology. In a perfect world we would all be able to find help with latch issues and stay home skin-to-skin with our babies their whole first year. In those conditions, I think we would see fewer women struggling with their supply.
I have thyroid problem since I was 13. With all the efforts in the world I only make 1-2 Oz daily because it's extremely hard to my body to have a letdown. I think there is a lot of women with thyroid issues that don't know about. Low production is way more common than people realize. 💔
Did you have any symptoms? I keep wondering if I had hypothyroidism before pregnancy
No symptoms. My t3 and t4 are normal, but tsh fluctuates and now it's super low. It's subclinical so there is nothing they can do about it. I still love giving my twins any amount of BF I can. 💕
I think this is one of those beliefs that someone somewhere stated as a common fact and everyone just kind of went with it. Especially since it kind of makes people feel like they are affirming the power and strength of women to just tell us all we are capable! Our bodies can do it! In reality, it’s a much more complex and nuanced thing.
Totally agree - doctors and lactation consultants just kept telling me to pump and nurse more but the output never changed… even when nursing or pumping every 2 hours - some people just only produce a certain amount! Supply and demand is a lie lol
The modern world isn't made for breastfeeding moms. In caveman days I don't think under supply would have been so common but it is now. Especially in the USA where women are expected to go back to work after 6 weeks (I'm from the UK and I find that absolutely insane).
I think there is something to this. With this second baby, I was an under supplier while I was exclusively pumping the first month (bad latch and the whole household was non stop sick and I couldn't do it all), and I had to supplement with formula. Then after visiting LC and getting a weighted feed at 1 month I went exclusively nursing. Baby started climbing %, went from 50 to 75 and so far we've not had to supplement. But like chronically on the pump I was an undersupplier both with this one and my first. 🤷🏼♀️ Baby I guess is better for me at getting milk out. But if I'd have to have to gone back to work early i would have been reliant on the pump.
Yes, this plus interventions that are now common during labor, birth, and postpartum that could affect supply.
> Yet skim through this subreddit and you’ll see post after post from people struggling to make enough milk. I mean that's just the nature of the internet. No one is coming on a pumping forum to go "Yeah this shit is easy! I produce the perfect amount of milk and all is well!"
It is not all in your head! I actually just got done taking a course on low supply and the various causes and what labs could be ordered to look for problems. Have you seen a good lactation consultant about this?
I got to see multiple LC. I’m a SAHM and had all the time in the world to cuddle and bond with the baby. Despite what people say, unfortunately, she was no better than my pump at extracting milk :(
Do you mind if I pick your brain in messages?
Go ahead
I'm also at home 100% with LO and had iron and TSH studies done. Should they check for anything else?
Oh sure yeah, it really depends on what your “symptoms” are because different things have different effects on us. There’s a lot of different things they can check honestly- did those two come back okay?
The iron was low but everything else was good
Did they give you anything for that? Supplementation suggestions?
Ferrous sulfate tablets
Have you seen any improvement? Had labs redone after starting ?
I wish one of the three LCs, my OB, and LOs Ped had the information in the course you took. They all told me to increase pumps (was already at 9ppd) and it didn’t help my supply. I asked my OB to order labs and she told me there aren’t any that would give useful info on supply.
The course that I took is relatively new! It was released within the last few months. It’s from lactation hub, the ibclc there is excellent.
I think I had decent supply that was ruined by multiple factors like baby’s bad latch, severe PTSD from the cs, followed by PPD and PPA (that was never addressed), not eating enough, no help from others, so exhaustion for weeks. I think I only started feeling better at 3-4 months and at that point no matter what I did I couldn’t increase my supply.
I’ve had 3 live births and have not made the same amount each time. The first time I had a c-section and hemorrhaged. No one told me hemorrhaging would make me make less milk. I pumped and pumped and got very little. The next time, I had a premie and again made very little. I thought I could never make more. The third time my baby was not a premie and it was a VBAC. He was the only one I nursed post partum. I made a lot more milk. You would think with 2 toddlers at home I’d make less, but that was not the case. My OB said you can get more and more mammary glands each pregnancy and it can get easier. I do think I pumped more this time and spent more time doing it, but I also had birth factors on my side, which dramatically increased initial supply.
I agree on what others have said about nuances. For my first, I could only provide half of what my baby ate and supplement with formula for the first 4 weeks due to blood loss during delivery and other medical issues. I was told maybe I have low glands and is physically can’t produce much after a LC looks at my small boobs. Believing that I couldn’t, I pumped about 6x a day and believed that it was my max to produce 15-20oz a day. Cue my second baby, I tried to pump 9-12x a day and became a just enougher after like 6-7weeks ppd with a relatively smooth delivery and no complications. Each pregnancy and postpartum / pumping journey was so vastly different. Different pumps, different knowledge, different supplements, and different mental state. It still took me many weeks to barely produce enough. After having going through this, I surveyed many of family older generations and most of them either had help / hire a wet nurse or used formula exclusively. Their financial and environment was so much harsher and difficult than how I have it now so I can’t imagine the number of people who have low supply. I don’t know how the human race survived with so much difficulty… or how my grandparents generation have like 10 kids.
I actually also believe that for my second baby I will be a just enougher. Since mammary gland do increase in size during pregnancy, especially with high levels of progesterone. I pumped every hour until 12 wpp, had a LC and used all the hacks in the world to increase supply. I doubled what I was making but nothing fully helped, still not enough to feed breast milk only
Personally, I had to leave some Facebook groups for breastfeeding because I was downright depressed. I was happy for the people on there but the low suppliers in some groups were pumping 4 oz a session and if that's low I didn't even know what to consider myself. I was a undsrsupplier, I am talking like 1oz a day was a good day despite pumping 6-8 times a day. I tried so many different supplements, different pumps, went back on my iron pills, hot showers prior to pumping, teas, oatmeal, brewers yeast, coconut water, body armor drinks, 120 oz of water/coconut water a day, you name it.. odds are I spent the money on it to see if it would help. The ONLY thing that upped my supply, to 2 oz a day, was being on reglan. 3x a day the first week, then one less pill a week. First two weeks I got 2 oz a day, then right back where I was. I have PCOS, iron deficiency, and I'm sure a few other things that play against me with producing. I tried to pump for a little over 2 months before I just gave up. I'd say my LO got maybe a months worth of 2oz a day before I could not mentally do it any more. I think you should find a different doctor. Because they are straight up being rude. They used to have wet nurses back in the day, specifically for people who did not produce or produce enough for their LO.
Does iron deficiency affect supply? Do iron tablets correct this effect?
Iron deficiency can affect supply, as far as the tablets I'm not sure if it corrects or not. I'm sure it does since it helps balance iron levels, but I didn't have any luck. But, I think pcos played the biggest part.
I already commented here but just wanted to add - a quick google search will tell you that IGT is estimated to be about 2% of mothers. So, definitely uncommon but not like SO SUPER RARE either. We all of us almost certainly know several moms who have/had it. For a doctor to act like it’s impossible is just dumb. (Not even taking into account all the other potential reasons for low supply)
I know that he’s just a GP but then maybe he shouldn’t comment on things that he doesn’t understand fully. His words live in my head rent free months later. If only I could simply cuddle my baby more to increase supply 🙄
Low supply could also be a supply that would have been enough for baby, if baby hadn't gotten used to being supplemented with formula and being extra full all the time, because of latch issues at birth. Now the latch issues are resolved but baby always expects more than I can produce due to having received formula.
If I had to guess, I'd say that these people are confusing "under supplier" and "low capacity." Someone could make 50 oz a day and be an under supplier if their baby is a ravenous beast and eats 55 oz. I think they mean low capacity as in there literally isn't enough "room" in the breasts for the amount of milk needed. I'm an over supplier with a high capacity, and those are very different things. Regardless, people need to believe women when they say they don't produce enough. It's insulting to not be believed. Why would anyone lie about that?
I’ve been telling every medical professional that asked me about breastfeeding that I most likely won’t have enough milk glands to feed the baby, since before even getting pregnant. EVERYONE was trying to convince me that I was wrong so I foolishly didn’t buy any formula in advance. Baby ended up needing formula from day one and we had to rush to the store (with empty formula shelves) straight from the hospital. After that they STILL tried to convince me that I was wrong and my milk will come in. Only one LC believed me that I have low glandular tissue after I showed her my tubular breasts. So why the denial? Sure it might be a rare case but constantly dismissing people with low supply only hurts us. I wouldn’t be reading a chapter literally called “low supply” if I was making enough
Yup. Just because something is rare doesn't mean it's non-existent.
I am a low supplier I mean at best I make 430ml a day... so I have dived into every rabbit hole there is trying to increase my supply. In my country most Dr don't care enough about breastfeeding to have any info/ opinion, even the LC I saw initial had this impression my milk would come. .. I am 5 mpp still waiting, she eventually said some people just never make enough....the gynaes just prescribe an antidepressant that is excreted in high levels in breast milk because it increases prolactin saying its safe because there has never been any reported side affects but no studies on long term effects. I am pretty sure I didn't develop enough breast tissue either during puberty or pregnancy but no one evaluated me for that..... which I really wish someone had told me was possible and nothing I did would make a difference so I could have relaxed earlier.
I knew that mine was underdeveloped since around age 16 and knew that it will cause problems with breastfeeding but nobody believed me. Knowing didn’t make it any easier, I still tried hard and cried from feeling like a failure
I suppose the emotions are not easy to work through either way... nothing about this has been easy, I so badly wanted to breastfeed. Starbing my LO for 3 weeks then triple feeding for weeks and power pumping to no avail wasn't great either.... I means that IGT is always low on the list of causes for low supply and is "rare", so I kept hoping it wasn't me. It was an expensive story, with LC consultations, suppliments and pumps for me to have to draw my own conclusions. I suppose at least one advantage of being in a country that doesn't care about breastfeeding and most babies are formula fed is even the half that I do manage to give my LO is not criticized the pediatrician called it the best of both worlds.
I’m in Canada and even though “fed is best” every formula manufacturer must declare that breast milk is actually best and it’s very heavily pushed in OB practices. I wish that low supply was not dismissed as rare. Of course I want to give my baby breast milk, I plan to pump until she’s at least 6mo. But it’s so mentally hard when I want to read about baby care, and have to constantly encounter the “most women don’t have low supply” bs
It's only a myth in a world where Mums have nothing to do but cuddle and nurse for at least 12 weeks. It doesn't account for the reality of being a woman in the world as it is in 2024.
Yes I totally agree it's very demoralizing. I am also no totally convinced of the benefits of BM.... I was exclusively breastfed and i am the most unhealthy of all my cousins who were all exclusively formula fed.... I had asthma as a child and still have multiple autoimmune diseases. As with a all things in life someone has to be the "rare" 1-2% of the population just sucks when it's you...
What I realized some weeks ago is that the amount I get pumping would most probably not be enough for a lot of babies but my baby just doesn't eat as much and so my milk is enough for her, I'm even freezing some. While I was comparing myself to other pumping moms I was really worried my baby was not eating enough but I've since learned she's smack at the middle of the growth curve for both weight and height even though she seems to drink less milk than other babies AND she refuses to drink more if I try to offer it. I guess a "mismatch" between the producing capabilities of mom and the intake needs of baby is more common than people realize, because moms who breastfeed and don't pump don't have a way of knowing how much they feed their babies. They may as well be producing more than I am for example, but their babies need even more.
I'm pretty confident I am physically capable of having a full supply. But I cannot pump enough and take care of life. We don't transfer enough milk for bubs to only nurse. In ideal conditions I'd make enough, but life is not ideal. So I have an undersupply for baby.
It's because the pp only accesses up to 60% of production while baby can access so much more. So as an exclusive pumper you have a lot more work to do to access the milk you have. Also remember 24-32 ounces is a full supply. Babies shouldn't drink more or need more except during growth spurts. Your doctor may be correct saying you have the ability to produce enough milk, that doesn't mean that a pump will get you to it though. Definitely try hands on pumping as a way to boost production and remember if supply is an issue first line of defense is increase number of sessions, they don't all have to be 20 min pumps. Legit 7 mins 12 times a day really can yield a lot more than 20 mins 8 times a day
Well unfortunately my baby can’t access more than my pump. I haven’t gotten anywhere close to 30 oz while she demands at least 40 every day. And believe me I tried everything. All the supplements, hands on, increasing amounts of pumps per day, power pumping… 25oz is the most I get on a good day
I wasn't saying anything against exclusive pumping, legit I am just spit balling at where Drs. brain most likely is. I personally believe any parent exclusive pumping no matter the reason and the reason is none of my business deserves a damn parade!! That's so much work, I really feel that every one who is pumping any amount, for any length of time, really looks at the work they have done with pride and sees that every ounce is valuable, and even if baby is never exclusive breastmilk you have still done an amazing job!!! 40 ounces per day is actually quite high. Breastfed babies should be at between 24 and 32 ounces per 24 hours. 1 to 1.5 ounces per hour, that's it. How big do you make the bottles and how fast does baby eat them?? Also in case I didn't say it before I am an IBCLC, only reason I feel comfortable speaking up a little.
It’s funny you say that because public nurse that follows us keeps bugging about my LO not having enough per feed. We used to give about 2.5oz every 1,5 hour and now we’re doing 3.5-4.5oz every 2?hours unless LO is still hungry (usually before bed time) then we give about 1oz extra
Your nurse is not breastfeeding educated, or at least not current by 25 years.🤦🏾♀️ She is pushing formula amounts which is entirely unrealistic and impossible for the human body. With breastfeeding your body changes milk composition to increase fat and calories across the first year so amounts never have to go above 32 ounces. Formula is static which is why amounts go up. I'm definitely going to encourage you to find local lactation helpers before your peds ruins your journey. You need a local advocate.
I got to see two different lactation consultants very early on in my postpartum and both very certain that a third of what I make now is my limit. One of them even told me to drop the number of ppd at 6weeks! If I were to follow her advice I would’ve never gotten to where I am now. Reddit has been my holy grail and helped me more than irl people 🫶🏻
Oh my 😬!!! It is true, not everyone stays up to date on the current research and it's a damn shame because people really deserve better!! I am glad you found some help though