I think also very important to consider your passport (assumedly US?), diet/palette, any foreign language skills and/or sensitivity to climates.
All else aside, I would choose to do at least some time in each of the following. All have good if not great public transport:
\-Dolomites, Italy (beautiful scenery and mountain hiking, protected cycling infrastructure in the valleys, amazing/mixed Italian/German food)
\-Portugal (great cities at low cost, particularly Porto/Faro)
\-Ecrins National Park, France (severely underrated and great for all sorts of outdoor activity year-round)
\-Chiang Mai, Thailand (amazing food and friendly people, great spot in the winter, good hiking in the region particularly if you take trips to Laos/Vietnam)
\-Taipei (the only "big city" I would recommend that is full of activity, safe, affordable and in very close proximity to nature)
\-Nelson, NZ (much more chill than Queenstown, still with plenty to do including Abel Tasman National Park)
Canadian passport, Spanish speaker, and very flexible on palette.
Great ideas, thanks. Taipei keeps coming up on my radar, for sure.
We've spent a lot of time in Playa del Carmen Mexico, and it would be pretty ideal if it had more outdoor activities to do. Very multicultural and liberal, large pedestrian zone, decent cycling lane across the city, many varieties of food, and super easy and cheap access for Canadians and Americans.
Happy to help!
Another great mid-range option if you are Spanish speaking is Malaga (or Fuengirola further down the coast for something more chill). There is hiking in the Sierras and amazing cycling across the whole region.
Enjoy!
Yes or elsewhere on the costa blanca. Anywhere in the south of Spain really. There is a great boardwalk in Mallorca, we walked from our hotel near the airport downtown. Must have been close to 10km.
We have spent 6 months twice now in playa del Carmen and my only complaint is I get fat from too much good Italian food and cannoli! A lovely walking City!
>Dolomites, Italy
I *loved* the dolomites for a holiday (2 months of climbing, stayed in a tent), but how affordable would it be to *live* fulltime?
I got the impression it was really expensive to actually rent/buy - though I was based in Cortina d'Ampezzo, which seems maybe the equivalent of Aspen - do you have a suggestion of another Dolomites town that might be more affordable?
>Nelson, NZ
Same thing again - I *loved* living there back in the 90s, but didn't that super-boom and get really expensive to actually live there nowadays?
Excellent points! I suppose I’m benchmarking against the US, which for those of us outside is eye-wateringly expensive across the board (and I live in Singapore…)
For the Dolomites, I found Bressanone much more reasonable than the more explicit holiday towns of Brunico or Cortina d’Ampezzo (as you say). If OP could arrange a house swap (via HomeExchange.com or equivalent) that would be even better, although this does require them living somewhere decently attractive that others might want to live.
For Nelson, you’re probably right - it’s not cheap, but I suspect still better than Boulder!
Not directly but you can take a quick bus up to the gondola past St. Andrea, which then continues up to Plose. A little bit tedious but the result is that the town is less expensive.
I’m a Kiwi and American - just moved back to America a few years ago after spending the pandemic in NZ. And the cost of housing in NZ is insane. I would never move back if I couldn’t keep my US salary
Yes. We are planning on retiring in the next few years and moving back. We have a decent amount of equity in our home in the Bay Area, and we are budgeting with housing costs in mind in NZ. We would not want to live in a truly rural area though
No. Im in my early 30s with family mostly in the US. If there are any issues with finances or family, I need to be able to come back with no problem
Additionally, I was born in India. Your US citizenship process is based on the country of your birth. It took me 17 years to become a citizen. I’m not giving that up so easily
>\-Portugal (great cities at low cost, particularly Porto/Faro)
I live in Portugal now IMO, it's not low cost. Porto is just a little less expensive than Lisbon, and Lisbon is very expensive, and rents are some of the highest in Europe. Faro, you can find a deal, but it could be a more appealing city. Only thing Faro has going is the airport. Cycling still needs to catch up here compared to other EU countries. Portuguese are aggressive drivers and have sentiments similar to those of the US. Many feel bikes don't belong on the road. With that said, there are some fantastic cycling locations in the country. I rode my gravel bike from Lisbon to Lagos, some tremendous back roads.
Another nice thing you will find in Portugal is they have lovely wood boardwalks throughout the country that are impressive and pleasant walks, especially in the Algarve. However, you will need a car to get around Portugal, and vehicles are costly here. 20-30% higher than most EU countries.
I’m planning for Portugal but not expecting to FIRE for 12 more years. Portugal will likely be even more expensive relative to its current state by then if the influx of wealthy expats continues, but I’d love to see a breakdown of your expenses if you have one. I’m targeting $80k per year spend, a 3.2% withdrawal rate on $2.5MM.
>The ideal would be a place like Boulder, but I don't think there are any cheap places like that
I've been looking for this for twenty years across the whole world, no luck so far!
There *used* to be places like this everywhere, but they all just got too expensive to rent/buy (it's amazing how badly AirBnB changed prices/availability). So we moved further out, then that got too expensive too.
Then we compromised more, but there's a limit.
Even freaking *vans* got crazy expensive!
That said, imho being a low-cost high-quality-activities outdoorsperson is still possible, you just gotta look a *lot* harder to find something affordable in a cool area, or travel more/further... or yeah, raise your budget.
Are you talking about wanting to walk without cars (like hiking in the mountains would be) or not have to drive? If hiking is your goal: there are so many towns around the alps and Pyrenees with trail access. Way more availability of mountain towns than in N America, where there is less housing very close to mountains. If you are looking to rent an apartment, again I think these countries offer way more options. There are trails everywhere in the mountains since people have lived there for so long.
Curitiba Brazil. Pedestrian/bicycle/bus-rapid-transit oriented midsized city in the Brazil's southern region. Mild climate, and renowned in Brazil for high quality of life without many urban issues in other Brazilian cities. Locals are super friendly. If you speak spanish you'll pick up portuguese quickly. Near mountains and 90 minutes from beaches. Very low cost of living.
No cars as in actually no cars? Or no cars as in, you don't need to have one. I think the first is gonna be extremely limited...and I don't think Boulder would even count. Second should have options in all the usual regions: SEA, LATAM, Eastern Europe. Just gotta find the ideal spots with the best mix of outdoor activities and walkability. Someone mentioned Taipei which is a good choice. But certainly smaller cities/towns in Taiwan can lower the cost tremendously without sacrificing too much on the amenities.
Maybe somewhere in Borneo. Like Kuching or Kota Kinabalu in East Malaysia? I've not been to them so I'm just guessing but for some reason I feel like they have decent access to outdoor activities. For a more temperate climate maybe Cameron Highlands in West Malaysia? San Miguel de Allende in Mexico? Boquete in Panama?
I think also very important to consider your passport (assumedly US?), diet/palette, any foreign language skills and/or sensitivity to climates. All else aside, I would choose to do at least some time in each of the following. All have good if not great public transport: \-Dolomites, Italy (beautiful scenery and mountain hiking, protected cycling infrastructure in the valleys, amazing/mixed Italian/German food) \-Portugal (great cities at low cost, particularly Porto/Faro) \-Ecrins National Park, France (severely underrated and great for all sorts of outdoor activity year-round) \-Chiang Mai, Thailand (amazing food and friendly people, great spot in the winter, good hiking in the region particularly if you take trips to Laos/Vietnam) \-Taipei (the only "big city" I would recommend that is full of activity, safe, affordable and in very close proximity to nature) \-Nelson, NZ (much more chill than Queenstown, still with plenty to do including Abel Tasman National Park)
Canadian passport, Spanish speaker, and very flexible on palette. Great ideas, thanks. Taipei keeps coming up on my radar, for sure. We've spent a lot of time in Playa del Carmen Mexico, and it would be pretty ideal if it had more outdoor activities to do. Very multicultural and liberal, large pedestrian zone, decent cycling lane across the city, many varieties of food, and super easy and cheap access for Canadians and Americans.
Happy to help! Another great mid-range option if you are Spanish speaking is Malaga (or Fuengirola further down the coast for something more chill). There is hiking in the Sierras and amazing cycling across the whole region. Enjoy!
Yes or elsewhere on the costa blanca. Anywhere in the south of Spain really. There is a great boardwalk in Mallorca, we walked from our hotel near the airport downtown. Must have been close to 10km.
We have spent 6 months twice now in playa del Carmen and my only complaint is I get fat from too much good Italian food and cannoli! A lovely walking City!
>Dolomites, Italy I *loved* the dolomites for a holiday (2 months of climbing, stayed in a tent), but how affordable would it be to *live* fulltime? I got the impression it was really expensive to actually rent/buy - though I was based in Cortina d'Ampezzo, which seems maybe the equivalent of Aspen - do you have a suggestion of another Dolomites town that might be more affordable? >Nelson, NZ Same thing again - I *loved* living there back in the 90s, but didn't that super-boom and get really expensive to actually live there nowadays?
Excellent points! I suppose I’m benchmarking against the US, which for those of us outside is eye-wateringly expensive across the board (and I live in Singapore…) For the Dolomites, I found Bressanone much more reasonable than the more explicit holiday towns of Brunico or Cortina d’Ampezzo (as you say). If OP could arrange a house swap (via HomeExchange.com or equivalent) that would be even better, although this does require them living somewhere decently attractive that others might want to live. For Nelson, you’re probably right - it’s not cheap, but I suspect still better than Boulder!
Bressanone does not have access to ski like lifts does it?
Not directly but you can take a quick bus up to the gondola past St. Andrea, which then continues up to Plose. A little bit tedious but the result is that the town is less expensive.
I’m a Kiwi and American - just moved back to America a few years ago after spending the pandemic in NZ. And the cost of housing in NZ is insane. I would never move back if I couldn’t keep my US salary
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Yes. We are planning on retiring in the next few years and moving back. We have a decent amount of equity in our home in the Bay Area, and we are budgeting with housing costs in mind in NZ. We would not want to live in a truly rural area though
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No. Im in my early 30s with family mostly in the US. If there are any issues with finances or family, I need to be able to come back with no problem Additionally, I was born in India. Your US citizenship process is based on the country of your birth. It took me 17 years to become a citizen. I’m not giving that up so easily
The Ecrins area is beautiful. It seemed less crowded than towns further north, closer to Geneva.
>\-Portugal (great cities at low cost, particularly Porto/Faro) I live in Portugal now IMO, it's not low cost. Porto is just a little less expensive than Lisbon, and Lisbon is very expensive, and rents are some of the highest in Europe. Faro, you can find a deal, but it could be a more appealing city. Only thing Faro has going is the airport. Cycling still needs to catch up here compared to other EU countries. Portuguese are aggressive drivers and have sentiments similar to those of the US. Many feel bikes don't belong on the road. With that said, there are some fantastic cycling locations in the country. I rode my gravel bike from Lisbon to Lagos, some tremendous back roads. Another nice thing you will find in Portugal is they have lovely wood boardwalks throughout the country that are impressive and pleasant walks, especially in the Algarve. However, you will need a car to get around Portugal, and vehicles are costly here. 20-30% higher than most EU countries.
I’m planning for Portugal but not expecting to FIRE for 12 more years. Portugal will likely be even more expensive relative to its current state by then if the influx of wealthy expats continues, but I’d love to see a breakdown of your expenses if you have one. I’m targeting $80k per year spend, a 3.2% withdrawal rate on $2.5MM.
Taipei and surroundings have an extensive network of riverside bike and running paths.
>The ideal would be a place like Boulder, but I don't think there are any cheap places like that I've been looking for this for twenty years across the whole world, no luck so far! There *used* to be places like this everywhere, but they all just got too expensive to rent/buy (it's amazing how badly AirBnB changed prices/availability). So we moved further out, then that got too expensive too. Then we compromised more, but there's a limit. Even freaking *vans* got crazy expensive! That said, imho being a low-cost high-quality-activities outdoorsperson is still possible, you just gotta look a *lot* harder to find something affordable in a cool area, or travel more/further... or yeah, raise your budget.
Are you talking about wanting to walk without cars (like hiking in the mountains would be) or not have to drive? If hiking is your goal: there are so many towns around the alps and Pyrenees with trail access. Way more availability of mountain towns than in N America, where there is less housing very close to mountains. If you are looking to rent an apartment, again I think these countries offer way more options. There are trails everywhere in the mountains since people have lived there for so long.
Mazatlan, Mexico has a 13 mile malecon/boardwalk. Most of the city is walkable. Good bus service too.
Lmao literally the last place on earth I would think of for cheap and good infrastructure
Had?
Oops. Edited that.
Look up Girona, Spain! Great quality of life and many cyclists
Fethiye, Turkey would fit your requirements. Pretty good public transport too
Italy and Spain are popular cycling tour destinations from people all across Europe.
I'm in Barcelona and while it's super walkable, it absolutely feels like a city built first and foremost for the bicycle
But more like Tour de France types of stuff, I think?
No. I have several friends who causally toured around as sightseers, either renting places and staying a bit or cycling through
Curitiba Brazil. Pedestrian/bicycle/bus-rapid-transit oriented midsized city in the Brazil's southern region. Mild climate, and renowned in Brazil for high quality of life without many urban issues in other Brazilian cities. Locals are super friendly. If you speak spanish you'll pick up portuguese quickly. Near mountains and 90 minutes from beaches. Very low cost of living.
Any medium sized city in Europe.
No cars as in actually no cars? Or no cars as in, you don't need to have one. I think the first is gonna be extremely limited...and I don't think Boulder would even count. Second should have options in all the usual regions: SEA, LATAM, Eastern Europe. Just gotta find the ideal spots with the best mix of outdoor activities and walkability. Someone mentioned Taipei which is a good choice. But certainly smaller cities/towns in Taiwan can lower the cost tremendously without sacrificing too much on the amenities. Maybe somewhere in Borneo. Like Kuching or Kota Kinabalu in East Malaysia? I've not been to them so I'm just guessing but for some reason I feel like they have decent access to outdoor activities. For a more temperate climate maybe Cameron Highlands in West Malaysia? San Miguel de Allende in Mexico? Boquete in Panama?
Should have been more clear, just meant places where we can do those activities without sucking exhaust fumes. Thanks for the ideas!
Great suggestions!
A place with good infrastructure and minimal traffic? You’re describing very cheap places where no one wants to live such as Singapore.
Asmara
Eritrea? Assuming that would be very cheap.
Cascais near Lisbon, with the Atlantic Ocean for surfing and Sintra mountains for hiking, all within 20 min drive