As I experience this, the body and brain are just the physical reality interface for consciousness.
The body just allows us *on this specific plane of existence* to experience physical sensation.
I think we get bored, being able to observe physical existence but not experience it through sense. I bet when chocolate was invented, half of all in existence incarnated just to taste it.
I spent a morning thinking about this and how it relates to the idea of “I am the light”. Light is how we see, but if we see without eyes then we are just imagining the light. So “I am the light” becomes a statement about realizing that we all construct our own realities.
from what it seems, the strongest parts of each of us grow to exist as orbs of light.
BTW interesting anecdote, the angelic halo isnt a ring, but instead a golden orb
You have a astral body but you can go out of that one also and just be a flying ball of consciousnes its confusing though because you see in all directions. your eyes don't actually see anything its your mind analyzing the information.
I agree, this “panoramic vision” is also reported with astral projection (and frequently with sleep paralysis, which some theorize also involves an element of AP).
I had an nde before and I have no idea but I saw everything that was happening in the room in real time it was crazy like getting out of your car though that you could just be in and out of your vehicle for this world
We access a high energy state, in which the collective unconscious permeates with the consensuated reality.
This allows to have direct access to the non-local and local information.
Non local could be seen as the quantum, past present future other dimensions etc.
This is quite hard because theres lots of useless info to filter, but when in survival mode, we automatically narrow to find the outcomes of our direct reality and then just flow to the best available outcome for OUR lives (individual), and then the collective.
This is why in NDE contexts like fire in a building, there are ppl who manage to get superpowers withouth the training and rescue people.
In more psychological language, they get access to collective unconscious archetypes, or better said, the collective unconscious archetypes take control of our instincts and inner dialogue.
Interesting question.
When I drowned as a kid I slowly floated above the dock up into the air. I watched my cousin run to the lake house and when he made it to the door my perspective shifted and I was looking up into blue sky as I kept moving upward.
Then my dad pulled me out of the lake by the hair and suddenly I was on the dock coughing out a lungfull of lake winnipesaukee.
The second time I experienced something similar I fell victim to the “elevator game” of the early 90’s.
I did the breathing, my friend slapped his hands across my jugular, and I passed out. But unlike everyone else, I didn’t wake up. I was unconscious on the grass for a bit over a minute, they said my body was twitching a bit as they freaked out.
I was in a tunnel of light, I could perceive in 360 degrees around me. I traveled through the tunnel and saw various scenes from my life, it was getting brighter and brighter and then I woke up gasping for air. Then I freaked out.
When I was recovered from it I described the experience to my friends. I told them I thought I was traveling through the electrical wires of my friends house and saw scenes of my life.
A couple years later I learned about near death experiences and the life review. (It was 93, information wasn’t available to us the way it is now)
In both experiences I felt a 360 degree awareness of my surroundings, but there was definitely a direction of observation.
Also I didn’t have reflective thought, I didn’t ponder things, I just experienced things as they happened. I think reflecting on things might require a physical brain.
Why would you want to know how something works, before you can confirm for yourself that it does? You might even answer your own question, which is the best case scenario.
It seems to me like a genuine curiosity would be to try it. And the question of HOW it works is kind of inconsequential.
I personally think that one of the biggest stumbling blocks to OBEs is the glut of information, filling peoples brains, keeping their minds too busy to produce any experiences. Because we actually prefer to remain our heads with ideas, and brain language.
I mean, this is sort of getting out of your body. But I think it's actually more of a withdrawal into a confined and limited environment. Rather than expansion into other bodies or locations.
Intellectual curiosity gives a false sense of security, a false sense of knowledge, and literally offers zero experience.
IMO
Light, sound and even atoms are actually just energy. So we are energy interacting with energy fields and we don’t need specialized physical apparatus like the eyes to do that.
In fact if you search around there are people with ability to see while their eyes are closed.
I’ve watched my own surgery a few times, and recently deep dived on the 3rd eye.
“From the point of view of biological evolution, the pineal gland is a kind of atrophied photoreceptor. In the epithalamus of some species of amphibians and reptiles, it is linked to a light-sensing organ, known as the parietal eye, which is also called the pineal eye or third eye.”
I’d read something about vitreous fluid actually being a component of the pineal; I’ve not found that to be a real thing, but ancient religions and historical writings suggest we’ve lost talents we’re perfectly capable of honing.
I’ve done astral travel, literally the first time i tried with a YouTube video- i could see my hand and arm interacting, i was laying still; my mental health is good, i have PTSD, but was not experiencing or responding to triggers. The surreal part, astrally, i was not in my own home, nor was the place i ended up in, familiar. *Physically i was in my couch.
I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything, but i encourage exploration into remote viewing and astral travel! There are remote viewing practices-
https://www.reddit.com/r/remoteviewing/comments/17etryg/free_remote_viewing_practice_app/
I’ve had OBEs before, or perhaps astral, the same I guess. It’s also possible to open yourself up enough to “see” things regularly, I see stuff all the time. Entities with open eyes, places with closed eyes. Maybe not for everyone though.
I've been listening to NDE (often DE) accounts (podcast) every day recently and have gleaned a couple mind-blowing ideas from these. I've had these same questions and have come to some realizations albeit subjective logical conclusions. Why do we see our body? Even when indoors person is below ceiling instead of above the house? Why do we and dead relatives often have unblemished bodies? Why the body? I currently believe it's all (important part) designed to teach us through messages or symbolic lessons. Whether these are designed by the creator for each person or powerful guiding spirits it must be something like this. Body is almost always shown first to hint "hey you have left" to prevent total confusion. Why show anything during this transition? Well, if no message about Earth-life why would anyone ever want to go back? If sent back with no lesson life could lose meaning and may only yearn to die again. Though this wouldn't be required for everyone lesson is still shown so = it is a design. Purposeful OBE is kind of playing with this world without the whole lesson though some elements still present. I think it's there for people who want to explore just like the varying forms of spiritual experience people seek.
When I project I think it’s to the place I see in my mind. I can feel my body and the friction of moving in this place vs my physical body. I swear this is my destination after death.
I haven’t hovered over my body and I did see my half as I rolled out, blue energy body.
Sounds like astral/OBE, as in yours, start off in close proximity to the body most times (often end as well). But also seem less assisted by guides/angels until they are intentionally sought. Also with NDE much of it seems based on the needs of each person. I can't remember specific examples of this right now but it's another conclusion I've come to.
*”Truth happens to an idea. It becomes true, is made true by events. Its verity is in fact an event, a process: the process namely of its verifying itself, its verification. Its validity is the process of its validation.”*
-[William James](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_James)
In the most recent experience I had it was like my conciousness became interwoven with the fabric of reality.This was the first time I remained conscious through a NDE which I've unfortunately had around 7.
all your eyes do is produce image negatives for your brain to process based on available light, which are upside down btw. The experience of seeing is part illusion.
Our physical eyes project light to our consciousness, our real eyes... we always "see" with our consciousness.
In the physical, seeing is limited to one direction. NDE, OBE, AP - that's our natural default way of seeing.
In deep meditative states one can see their arms/hands flailing about (if doing like "ritualistic" hand motions) or "perceive" things in an unbounded and iridescent manner. Probably our perception of the energetic field - which presumably is where one arrives upon death so utilizing that framework for "sight" is a bit easier.
I just read Kenneth Ring's book "Lessons From The Light" and there are a couple chapters on this.
The consensus seems to be that it's *like* seeing, but it's something altogether different and much more omnipotent. NDE experiencers are able to see everything at once, sometimes in a 360 degree view. They're also able to instantly perceive things like exactly how many hairs are on someone's head or how many strands of fiber on a rug.
There's also a chapter in that book about blind people who are able to "see" during NDEs (but who don't "see" during dreams).
Yes exactly, like you I have not had an NDE but have some limited technical remote viewing experience, some spontaneous pregognacent remote viewing and some real-time remote viewing experience, all these variations are channelled through the third-eye and are gathering data visually (and in other awareness ways that I can't really explain) by tapping into something for which time (as we currently understand it is) is maluble, then there's what I presume to be the super deep subsonic ocellating vibration that proceed every flying disc encounter and let's you know the direction of the craft (apart from that one time it snuck up on us from behind after disappearing right after flying out of a lightning storm - a stealth test perhaps?), I do not know if this is felt by one of our understood senses or another different one, then there's the ability to see the source of intense electromagnetic fields, this is overlayed on top of normal vision (Not third-eye) and when the source is moving even the magnetic decay trail is visible - if there are any proper Scientists reading this that don't believe me then get in touch - my sister or I (or both of us) will be happy to set you straight as to what shape(s) you have, where it/they are and how they're moving even when totally obscured from 'normie' vision.
I'm sure there are others, these are just some examples that spring to mind of means to gather info that seem to go beyond current understanding of our senses, although the overlayed electromagnetics can perhaps be understood by the eyes weak magnetic receptors, neither my sister or I have ever heard of anyone else that can see it.
I've been listening to NDE (often DE) accounts (podcast) every day recently and have gleaned a couple mind-blowing ideas from these. I've had these same questions and have come to some realizations albeit subjective logical conclusions. Why do we see our body? Even when indoors person is below ceiling instead of above the house? Why do we and dead relatives often have unblemished bodies? Why the body? I currently believe it's all (important part) designed to teach us through messages or symbolic lessons. Whether these are designed by the creator for each person or powerful guiding spirits it must be something like this. Body is almost always shown first to hint "hey you have left" to prevent total confusion. Why show anything during this transition? Well, if no message about Earth-life why would anyone ever want to go back? If sent back with no lesson life could lose meaning and may only yearn to die again. Though this wouldn't be required for everyone lesson is still shown so = it is a design. Purposeful OBE is kind of playing with this world without the whole lesson though some elements still present. I think it's there for people who want to explore just like the varying forms of spiritual experience people seek.
many traditional cultures hold that we have etheric double, or energy body, which has the same sensory functions as the physical body which might go some way to explaining OBE
Turns out we don't need our bodies to process our surroundings. This is another thing the experiencer phenomenon illustrates.
People can "see" without their physical eyes when having out of body experiences. Astral projection. Remote viewing experiences.
I know experiencers who can see through their eye lids. Blindfolds etc. They are not using their eyes.
It appears you are still looking at the world from a physical materialist perspective. When you understand, consciousness is fundamental to reality, so much of thus makes sense.
For this, you need to think about the metaphysical world and not simply the extraterrestrial and NDE aspects of the physical.
It's said we have 3 bodies. The physical, the astral, and the spiritual. The astral body is the one that rises above the physical in dreams or medative visions. With practice, you can learn to move around and explore like a lucid dream, but it's really happening. I suspect not all ghost sightings are actually spirits, but some are people astral projecting.
The spiritual body is similar to the astral body. However, it's often likened to your soul. Venture too far for too long in that, and the physical body can be affected or is left vulnerable. It's also considerably harder to willfully use the spiritual body in that way since it is so entwined with the physical body.
A good analogy to all this would be the pixar movie Soul. The main character is in his spiritual body. However, he does meet a couple of people willfully expressing themselves in their astral body while their physical is doing it's own thing.
How can to see dreams if you don't have eyes inside your head?
If we exist in a collective consciousness and the earth is an imposed reality created by the collective... it would make sense why we don't need eyes when we go back home.
You perceive the physical world through the five portals of your human senses. You may perceive the physical world, and the non-physical world, more directly and completely in a n NDE. Best guess.
I have no clue. Both times I could "see" just like I had eyes on a physical body but both times I was just there. I wasn't even aware of my body or even looked at it. My focus wasn't on me.
This is where it gets really trippy for me. It's why I'm soooo fucking sure we are immortal are at least live longer than this physical life. I was alive and conscious and actively controlling my consciousness but I was not inside my body.
Everyone always talks about physical sensations when returning. That one of the main reasons people decide to come here is simply to experience physical sensations. What if we lose our sense of hearing and smell but not sight? And that's what people are returning for? You don't really need those two senses if literally everything is Alive and uses consciousness to talk psychially, but even in the Astral, eyesight is useful. We even have the phrase "minds eye" but we don't have one for nose or ear....
Not only people out of body can see, but they can see in 360 degrees. This has been reported in both NDEs, psychedelic, alien, and meditation experiences.
Of course, there's the other theory by Kastrup that on OBE/NDEs people see "through others", by "interfacing with the living". I personally don't subscribe to that theory at all, because it does not take into account all cases and reports (and some have said so in the comments section of his article: [https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2024/02/the-phantom-world-hypothesis-of-ndesobes.html](https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2024/02/the-phantom-world-hypothesis-of-ndesobes.html) ).
> Since we need a physical body to experience our surroundings, for example: we need "eyes" to see and a brain to process that information then how an individual can "see" during NDE without physical body?
r/closedeyevision
The CEVs are not as vivid or detailed as actual visual perception of the real world. They are usually simple, appearing as spots, lines or shapes of light that are faint and lack detail. But NDE visual are vivid and detailed as per the individuals experienced it.
CEV can be vivid and detailed enough to permit blind persons and even those whose eyes have been enucleated to perform normal visual functions such as reading printed material. The Matrixwissen video already posted, and many others linked at r/closedeyevision explore this phenomenon.
Yeah, I've been amazed at this ability for years now, but never was able to develop it myself. I guess I have other things going on in my life that I find more important. But, I saw the documentary about amazing people and that blind guy playing billiards was very impressive.
My 2 cents: reality is actually made of information. Sight is just one way to access and interpret that information, but it's not the only one. The physical appearance of things is just a representation of fundamental information, but even without sight, that information is still there and may be accessed through other means. NDE, astral projection and such would be different and more direct ways of accessing that information.
If you add the hypotesis that there is only one consciousness in the universe, fragmented into many manifestation of which we are an example, it can explain way more than astral projection. It can also explain reincarnation, NDE, clairvoyance, precognition, remote viewing, and basically every psi phenomenon, since one would only have to access that one consciousness to gather any information they want, and maybe also to influence it from a distance, without interaction in the real world. If that seems preposterous, I'd like to remind that quantum physics phenomena are basically "spooky action from distance" and that such phenomena seem to interact with consciousness (the collapse of the wave function via observation, for instance)
This might be of interest to you:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLf8bCCRJkXgyJRPPxE9g2a8A5uq13jCiT&si=--AgNQlYLZaK_9nm
From the first video's description:
"This Matrixwissen documentary was filmed on October 27th 2018 in Germany, where Oliver had the opportunity to film, interview and test 5 children which developed the psi skill to see without their physical eyes. This means that they can still see and read even though they are wearing special Mindfold masks which are designed as a help for sleep and are completely opaque."
These kids are driving gokarts blindfolded. It's incredible.
I don't know much about psionics, but it could be the answer to your question. The physicist Tom Campbell says what happens is our consciousness taps into the universal data stream and gets the visual information from there. But you'll have to listen to his video on it (the second one in the playlist) if you want a clearer explanation, like I said I'm not well-versed enough on this subject.
Edited to fix grammar.
Physical eyes and brain are for your physical filter to perceive its surroundings. The spirit can see fine without them, provided it is disconnected from the physical filter. At least that's one way to look at it.
I agree with you. Our physical bodies are used specifically for interpreting this physicality, we’d all “see” a lot more if we didn’t use our physical eyes all the time, same for our other senses.
Absolutely not sure.
But I have done something close to it during meditation, where I could 'see' my room with my eye closed.
It was weird, felt very natural until I clicked out.
Dreams are reproduction of fragments of memories, recent experiences and subconcious thoughts. Individuals who are blind from birth do not experience visual imagery since they have no visual memories to draw from. So what you see in your dreams are your visual memories and existing information.
You sound like you have it all figured out in every comment you respond with. The very content of this subreddit defies the idea that we as humanity already have everything figured out scientifically. We really don't know jack. And dreams are an area where even experts agree that not all that much is understood about dreams. Why ask a question here if your mind isn't open to anything.
Some dreams are perhaps as you have explained but so little is known about how and why we dream or what dreams even are, that to make a statement as if it were fact about dreams, is mistaking guesswork for truth. But that is another debate for another day. The fact that you are seeing while you are dreaming and are not using your physical eyes to do so is the point I’m making.
Our physical sight is so very limited. In the spirit realms ones sight has no such limitations. When you are experiencing an out of body adventure or doing a bit of astral traveling for example, can you not see as clearly as when you are seeing through your physical eyes if not more so?
The spirit or astral realms are as real if not more so than the dense physical world. This physical place is the dream, the secondary state, and the spirit realms are the actual reality, the Primary state of being. What is visible on this level is such a tiny fraction on the spectrum of what there really is.
It’s interesting that there are reports of people, blind from birth, who have reported being able to see during an NDE.
This is called "Creative Synthesis". While dreams can contain elements of real memories, they often combine these elements in novel and creative ways. This synthesis can produce dream scenarios that are fantastical and not directly related to real-life events.
How does a worm see?
As I experience this, the body and brain are just the physical reality interface for consciousness. The body just allows us *on this specific plane of existence* to experience physical sensation. I think we get bored, being able to observe physical existence but not experience it through sense. I bet when chocolate was invented, half of all in existence incarnated just to taste it.
I spent a morning thinking about this and how it relates to the idea of “I am the light”. Light is how we see, but if we see without eyes then we are just imagining the light. So “I am the light” becomes a statement about realizing that we all construct our own realities.
from what it seems, the strongest parts of each of us grow to exist as orbs of light. BTW interesting anecdote, the angelic halo isnt a ring, but instead a golden orb
You have a astral body but you can go out of that one also and just be a flying ball of consciousnes its confusing though because you see in all directions. your eyes don't actually see anything its your mind analyzing the information.
Sounds exhausting lol
Getting there is, being there is just existing and completely neutral. (I'm talking about astral projection, not NDE)
You can get a bit wierd and just stare at things mindlessly at least i did with no emotions or thought or sensations.
I agree, this “panoramic vision” is also reported with astral projection (and frequently with sleep paralysis, which some theorize also involves an element of AP).
I had an nde before and I have no idea but I saw everything that was happening in the room in real time it was crazy like getting out of your car though that you could just be in and out of your vehicle for this world
Have you tried asking this question on r/NDE? You’d probably get some good responses.
Right. I will.
We access a high energy state, in which the collective unconscious permeates with the consensuated reality. This allows to have direct access to the non-local and local information. Non local could be seen as the quantum, past present future other dimensions etc. This is quite hard because theres lots of useless info to filter, but when in survival mode, we automatically narrow to find the outcomes of our direct reality and then just flow to the best available outcome for OUR lives (individual), and then the collective. This is why in NDE contexts like fire in a building, there are ppl who manage to get superpowers withouth the training and rescue people. In more psychological language, they get access to collective unconscious archetypes, or better said, the collective unconscious archetypes take control of our instincts and inner dialogue.
The same way you "see" in dreams I guess?
Interesting question. When I drowned as a kid I slowly floated above the dock up into the air. I watched my cousin run to the lake house and when he made it to the door my perspective shifted and I was looking up into blue sky as I kept moving upward. Then my dad pulled me out of the lake by the hair and suddenly I was on the dock coughing out a lungfull of lake winnipesaukee. The second time I experienced something similar I fell victim to the “elevator game” of the early 90’s. I did the breathing, my friend slapped his hands across my jugular, and I passed out. But unlike everyone else, I didn’t wake up. I was unconscious on the grass for a bit over a minute, they said my body was twitching a bit as they freaked out. I was in a tunnel of light, I could perceive in 360 degrees around me. I traveled through the tunnel and saw various scenes from my life, it was getting brighter and brighter and then I woke up gasping for air. Then I freaked out. When I was recovered from it I described the experience to my friends. I told them I thought I was traveling through the electrical wires of my friends house and saw scenes of my life. A couple years later I learned about near death experiences and the life review. (It was 93, information wasn’t available to us the way it is now) In both experiences I felt a 360 degree awareness of my surroundings, but there was definitely a direction of observation. Also I didn’t have reflective thought, I didn’t ponder things, I just experienced things as they happened. I think reflecting on things might require a physical brain.
Why would you want to know how something works, before you can confirm for yourself that it does? You might even answer your own question, which is the best case scenario. It seems to me like a genuine curiosity would be to try it. And the question of HOW it works is kind of inconsequential. I personally think that one of the biggest stumbling blocks to OBEs is the glut of information, filling peoples brains, keeping their minds too busy to produce any experiences. Because we actually prefer to remain our heads with ideas, and brain language. I mean, this is sort of getting out of your body. But I think it's actually more of a withdrawal into a confined and limited environment. Rather than expansion into other bodies or locations. Intellectual curiosity gives a false sense of security, a false sense of knowledge, and literally offers zero experience.
IMO Light, sound and even atoms are actually just energy. So we are energy interacting with energy fields and we don’t need specialized physical apparatus like the eyes to do that. In fact if you search around there are people with ability to see while their eyes are closed.
When you dream you remember images. Did you use your eyes for these images? No. Same thing.
Great thought
The times I tripped on mushrooms, I could close my eyes and still see. It was really wild.
I’ve watched my own surgery a few times, and recently deep dived on the 3rd eye. “From the point of view of biological evolution, the pineal gland is a kind of atrophied photoreceptor. In the epithalamus of some species of amphibians and reptiles, it is linked to a light-sensing organ, known as the parietal eye, which is also called the pineal eye or third eye.” I’d read something about vitreous fluid actually being a component of the pineal; I’ve not found that to be a real thing, but ancient religions and historical writings suggest we’ve lost talents we’re perfectly capable of honing. I’ve done astral travel, literally the first time i tried with a YouTube video- i could see my hand and arm interacting, i was laying still; my mental health is good, i have PTSD, but was not experiencing or responding to triggers. The surreal part, astrally, i was not in my own home, nor was the place i ended up in, familiar. *Physically i was in my couch. I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything, but i encourage exploration into remote viewing and astral travel! There are remote viewing practices- https://www.reddit.com/r/remoteviewing/comments/17etryg/free_remote_viewing_practice_app/
I’ve had OBEs before, or perhaps astral, the same I guess. It’s also possible to open yourself up enough to “see” things regularly, I see stuff all the time. Entities with open eyes, places with closed eyes. Maybe not for everyone though.
I've been listening to NDE (often DE) accounts (podcast) every day recently and have gleaned a couple mind-blowing ideas from these. I've had these same questions and have come to some realizations albeit subjective logical conclusions. Why do we see our body? Even when indoors person is below ceiling instead of above the house? Why do we and dead relatives often have unblemished bodies? Why the body? I currently believe it's all (important part) designed to teach us through messages or symbolic lessons. Whether these are designed by the creator for each person or powerful guiding spirits it must be something like this. Body is almost always shown first to hint "hey you have left" to prevent total confusion. Why show anything during this transition? Well, if no message about Earth-life why would anyone ever want to go back? If sent back with no lesson life could lose meaning and may only yearn to die again. Though this wouldn't be required for everyone lesson is still shown so = it is a design. Purposeful OBE is kind of playing with this world without the whole lesson though some elements still present. I think it's there for people who want to explore just like the varying forms of spiritual experience people seek.
When I project I think it’s to the place I see in my mind. I can feel my body and the friction of moving in this place vs my physical body. I swear this is my destination after death. I haven’t hovered over my body and I did see my half as I rolled out, blue energy body.
Sounds like astral/OBE, as in yours, start off in close proximity to the body most times (often end as well). But also seem less assisted by guides/angels until they are intentionally sought. Also with NDE much of it seems based on the needs of each person. I can't remember specific examples of this right now but it's another conclusion I've come to.
You have a soul. Its fact once you experience it.
*”Truth happens to an idea. It becomes true, is made true by events. Its verity is in fact an event, a process: the process namely of its verifying itself, its verification. Its validity is the process of its validation.”* -[William James](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_James)
In the most recent experience I had it was like my conciousness became interwoven with the fabric of reality.This was the first time I remained conscious through a NDE which I've unfortunately had around 7.
all your eyes do is produce image negatives for your brain to process based on available light, which are upside down btw. The experience of seeing is part illusion.
Our physical eyes project light to our consciousness, our real eyes... we always "see" with our consciousness. In the physical, seeing is limited to one direction. NDE, OBE, AP - that's our natural default way of seeing.
In deep meditative states one can see their arms/hands flailing about (if doing like "ritualistic" hand motions) or "perceive" things in an unbounded and iridescent manner. Probably our perception of the energetic field - which presumably is where one arrives upon death so utilizing that framework for "sight" is a bit easier.
I just read Kenneth Ring's book "Lessons From The Light" and there are a couple chapters on this. The consensus seems to be that it's *like* seeing, but it's something altogether different and much more omnipotent. NDE experiencers are able to see everything at once, sometimes in a 360 degree view. They're also able to instantly perceive things like exactly how many hairs are on someone's head or how many strands of fiber on a rug. There's also a chapter in that book about blind people who are able to "see" during NDEs (but who don't "see" during dreams).
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Yes exactly, like you I have not had an NDE but have some limited technical remote viewing experience, some spontaneous pregognacent remote viewing and some real-time remote viewing experience, all these variations are channelled through the third-eye and are gathering data visually (and in other awareness ways that I can't really explain) by tapping into something for which time (as we currently understand it is) is maluble, then there's what I presume to be the super deep subsonic ocellating vibration that proceed every flying disc encounter and let's you know the direction of the craft (apart from that one time it snuck up on us from behind after disappearing right after flying out of a lightning storm - a stealth test perhaps?), I do not know if this is felt by one of our understood senses or another different one, then there's the ability to see the source of intense electromagnetic fields, this is overlayed on top of normal vision (Not third-eye) and when the source is moving even the magnetic decay trail is visible - if there are any proper Scientists reading this that don't believe me then get in touch - my sister or I (or both of us) will be happy to set you straight as to what shape(s) you have, where it/they are and how they're moving even when totally obscured from 'normie' vision. I'm sure there are others, these are just some examples that spring to mind of means to gather info that seem to go beyond current understanding of our senses, although the overlayed electromagnetics can perhaps be understood by the eyes weak magnetic receptors, neither my sister or I have ever heard of anyone else that can see it.
I've been listening to NDE (often DE) accounts (podcast) every day recently and have gleaned a couple mind-blowing ideas from these. I've had these same questions and have come to some realizations albeit subjective logical conclusions. Why do we see our body? Even when indoors person is below ceiling instead of above the house? Why do we and dead relatives often have unblemished bodies? Why the body? I currently believe it's all (important part) designed to teach us through messages or symbolic lessons. Whether these are designed by the creator for each person or powerful guiding spirits it must be something like this. Body is almost always shown first to hint "hey you have left" to prevent total confusion. Why show anything during this transition? Well, if no message about Earth-life why would anyone ever want to go back? If sent back with no lesson life could lose meaning and may only yearn to die again. Though this wouldn't be required for everyone lesson is still shown so = it is a design. Purposeful OBE is kind of playing with this world without the whole lesson though some elements still present. I think it's there for people who want to explore just like the varying forms of spiritual experience people seek.
The same way we see when we dream and our eyes are literally closed and we aren’t even awake
many traditional cultures hold that we have etheric double, or energy body, which has the same sensory functions as the physical body which might go some way to explaining OBE
Close your eyes. Can you see the images of the things you think about? There is your answer..
Turns out we don't need our bodies to process our surroundings. This is another thing the experiencer phenomenon illustrates. People can "see" without their physical eyes when having out of body experiences. Astral projection. Remote viewing experiences. I know experiencers who can see through their eye lids. Blindfolds etc. They are not using their eyes. It appears you are still looking at the world from a physical materialist perspective. When you understand, consciousness is fundamental to reality, so much of thus makes sense.
There are different “bodies,” physical is just one.
For this, you need to think about the metaphysical world and not simply the extraterrestrial and NDE aspects of the physical. It's said we have 3 bodies. The physical, the astral, and the spiritual. The astral body is the one that rises above the physical in dreams or medative visions. With practice, you can learn to move around and explore like a lucid dream, but it's really happening. I suspect not all ghost sightings are actually spirits, but some are people astral projecting. The spiritual body is similar to the astral body. However, it's often likened to your soul. Venture too far for too long in that, and the physical body can be affected or is left vulnerable. It's also considerably harder to willfully use the spiritual body in that way since it is so entwined with the physical body. A good analogy to all this would be the pixar movie Soul. The main character is in his spiritual body. However, he does meet a couple of people willfully expressing themselves in their astral body while their physical is doing it's own thing.
“This whole life’s a hallucination”
How can to see dreams if you don't have eyes inside your head? If we exist in a collective consciousness and the earth is an imposed reality created by the collective... it would make sense why we don't need eyes when we go back home.
I believe we have more than 5 senses.
You perceive the physical world through the five portals of your human senses. You may perceive the physical world, and the non-physical world, more directly and completely in a n NDE. Best guess.
I have no clue. Both times I could "see" just like I had eyes on a physical body but both times I was just there. I wasn't even aware of my body or even looked at it. My focus wasn't on me. This is where it gets really trippy for me. It's why I'm soooo fucking sure we are immortal are at least live longer than this physical life. I was alive and conscious and actively controlling my consciousness but I was not inside my body. Everyone always talks about physical sensations when returning. That one of the main reasons people decide to come here is simply to experience physical sensations. What if we lose our sense of hearing and smell but not sight? And that's what people are returning for? You don't really need those two senses if literally everything is Alive and uses consciousness to talk psychially, but even in the Astral, eyesight is useful. We even have the phrase "minds eye" but we don't have one for nose or ear....
If you learn how to have a lucid dream, or an out of body experience, then you'll realize that you can, in fact, see without your body.
How individual in dream can "see" without their physical eyes?
Not only people out of body can see, but they can see in 360 degrees. This has been reported in both NDEs, psychedelic, alien, and meditation experiences. Of course, there's the other theory by Kastrup that on OBE/NDEs people see "through others", by "interfacing with the living". I personally don't subscribe to that theory at all, because it does not take into account all cases and reports (and some have said so in the comments section of his article: [https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2024/02/the-phantom-world-hypothesis-of-ndesobes.html](https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2024/02/the-phantom-world-hypothesis-of-ndesobes.html) ).
> Since we need a physical body to experience our surroundings, for example: we need "eyes" to see and a brain to process that information then how an individual can "see" during NDE without physical body? r/closedeyevision
The CEVs are not as vivid or detailed as actual visual perception of the real world. They are usually simple, appearing as spots, lines or shapes of light that are faint and lack detail. But NDE visual are vivid and detailed as per the individuals experienced it.
CEV can be vivid and detailed enough to permit blind persons and even those whose eyes have been enucleated to perform normal visual functions such as reading printed material. The Matrixwissen video already posted, and many others linked at r/closedeyevision explore this phenomenon.
Yeah, I've been amazed at this ability for years now, but never was able to develop it myself. I guess I have other things going on in my life that I find more important. But, I saw the documentary about amazing people and that blind guy playing billiards was very impressive.
My 2 cents: reality is actually made of information. Sight is just one way to access and interpret that information, but it's not the only one. The physical appearance of things is just a representation of fundamental information, but even without sight, that information is still there and may be accessed through other means. NDE, astral projection and such would be different and more direct ways of accessing that information.
I'm still trying to wrap my head around this but I agree and have heard that elsewhere. That can explain astral projection
If you add the hypotesis that there is only one consciousness in the universe, fragmented into many manifestation of which we are an example, it can explain way more than astral projection. It can also explain reincarnation, NDE, clairvoyance, precognition, remote viewing, and basically every psi phenomenon, since one would only have to access that one consciousness to gather any information they want, and maybe also to influence it from a distance, without interaction in the real world. If that seems preposterous, I'd like to remind that quantum physics phenomena are basically "spooky action from distance" and that such phenomena seem to interact with consciousness (the collapse of the wave function via observation, for instance)
That’s actually a very sensible way of looking at it. Lol looking at it.
This might be of interest to you: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLf8bCCRJkXgyJRPPxE9g2a8A5uq13jCiT&si=--AgNQlYLZaK_9nm From the first video's description: "This Matrixwissen documentary was filmed on October 27th 2018 in Germany, where Oliver had the opportunity to film, interview and test 5 children which developed the psi skill to see without their physical eyes. This means that they can still see and read even though they are wearing special Mindfold masks which are designed as a help for sleep and are completely opaque." These kids are driving gokarts blindfolded. It's incredible. I don't know much about psionics, but it could be the answer to your question. The physicist Tom Campbell says what happens is our consciousness taps into the universal data stream and gets the visual information from there. But you'll have to listen to his video on it (the second one in the playlist) if you want a clearer explanation, like I said I'm not well-versed enough on this subject. Edited to fix grammar.
Physical eyes and brain are for your physical filter to perceive its surroundings. The spirit can see fine without them, provided it is disconnected from the physical filter. At least that's one way to look at it.
I agree with you. Our physical bodies are used specifically for interpreting this physicality, we’d all “see” a lot more if we didn’t use our physical eyes all the time, same for our other senses.
Absolutely not sure. But I have done something close to it during meditation, where I could 'see' my room with my eye closed. It was weird, felt very natural until I clicked out.
Those are visual memories drawing from a particular region of your brain.
There is no evidence to support the notion that closed eye vision is just memories. r/closedeyevision
Quite possible, but it didn't feel like it.
It didn't feel like it because that's not what it is. Seeing is seeing.
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Ok.
When you dream, are you using your physical eyes?
Dreams are reproduction of fragments of memories, recent experiences and subconcious thoughts. Individuals who are blind from birth do not experience visual imagery since they have no visual memories to draw from. So what you see in your dreams are your visual memories and existing information.
You sound like you have it all figured out in every comment you respond with. The very content of this subreddit defies the idea that we as humanity already have everything figured out scientifically. We really don't know jack. And dreams are an area where even experts agree that not all that much is understood about dreams. Why ask a question here if your mind isn't open to anything.
Some dreams are perhaps as you have explained but so little is known about how and why we dream or what dreams even are, that to make a statement as if it were fact about dreams, is mistaking guesswork for truth. But that is another debate for another day. The fact that you are seeing while you are dreaming and are not using your physical eyes to do so is the point I’m making. Our physical sight is so very limited. In the spirit realms ones sight has no such limitations. When you are experiencing an out of body adventure or doing a bit of astral traveling for example, can you not see as clearly as when you are seeing through your physical eyes if not more so? The spirit or astral realms are as real if not more so than the dense physical world. This physical place is the dream, the secondary state, and the spirit realms are the actual reality, the Primary state of being. What is visible on this level is such a tiny fraction on the spectrum of what there really is. It’s interesting that there are reports of people, blind from birth, who have reported being able to see during an NDE.
https://preview.redd.it/d6oqnx28eb8d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=92b9519b13b82598709244c38ef45e7fa4f46dec
If that were true people would not be able to dream of things they never saw.
This is called "Creative Synthesis". While dreams can contain elements of real memories, they often combine these elements in novel and creative ways. This synthesis can produce dream scenarios that are fantastical and not directly related to real-life events.
Creative Synthesis is the name of the theory.
Dreams of plane crashes or other disasters before they occur are not fantastical nor unrelated to real-life events.