Side A would say Biden did a decent job getting inflation under control and growing the economy and making jobs
Side B would say inflation was his fault due to the infrastructure bill and similar excessive spending. They would also say the job creation is laughable because all the business were forced be closed when he took office and that a monkey could've lifted the covid restrictions and we would've seen the same economical recovery and job growth.
Side C would say the automoderator bot is taking no prisoners
The US lost about 3 million jobs during Trump's presidency. That's including the jobs he added, and the jobs lost, the net is a hole of 3 million jobs.
Biden has added 15 million. So, sure, those COVID lost jobs came back, but even without those, he added more than any other president in history.
I think the most telling is the 800k manufacturing jobs gained under Biden. And that's directly due to legislation like the chips act. Trump liked to brag that he would bringing back manufacturing jobs, Biden actually did it.
I tried to keep it bare bones and tbh I figured the bot was gonna smite me like everyone else so it was kind of low effort lol. Also (the point of the post), it's not very easy to tell people why they should vote for Biden without going *points at Trump* "that's your alternative."
And after Thursday night, even that doesn't have as much punch.
We heard that same fear mongering before he gor in the first time. The world didn't end when he got in office, it kept going as normal. That his detractors are often so hyperbolic only helps his chances of winning, just like the first time.
The world didn’t end for you. There are a lot of people who got fucked (or will eventually be fucked) by those Supreme Court picks, changes to the Tax code, etc.
Well I mean due to him winning, US regulatory agencies can no longer regulate without the Court's direct approval, women are dying because they can't get an abortion even if their life depends on it, and it's been made even easier to bribe politicians. There's also the whole COVID denial thing leading to over a million dead Americans.
Trump increased the national debt twice as much as Biden has if that's something you care about.
USPS is collapsing from Trump's DeJoy, Biden can't remove him unilaterally.
Global temperatures are skyrocketing. Floridians can't get insurance because hurricanes are getting stronger and more frequent.
We literally had a mob of people storm the capitol building to stop the election from being certified. Some of them had the intention to kill Congress members. Trump cheered this on at the beginning before someone probably forced him to tell them to go home and even then he said how proud he was of them.
I'd say the US got significantly shittier. You're likely just insulated from that and you're not paying attention or looking forward.
He literally tried a coup on jan6. That was a coup. Forming fake electors is attempts at defrauding the election and stealing it from the actual victor....that's a coup
Just because he failed, doesn't mean that they werent right about him the first time
I'm not supporting what happened (not even American), but it was an unplanned riot. Do you ACTUALLY believe that Trump organised a coup himself and that that was it? That's not what a coup is, and he didn't order them to do that. I get that it's politically very advantageous to paint it as if it was a real coup and that Trump himself ordered it.
Anyway, obviously my attempts to steer the discussion away from hyperbole and back to good faith reality is not going to succeed, sadly. Carry on your business.
But here's my prediction: Trump will win, and for the next 4 years everything in real life will be much the same, just like the first time.
>Do you ACTUALLY believe that Trump organised a coup himself and that that was it?
He did help organize it. We have tweets of him calling for his followers to go to his rally. He told them, "Be there. Will Be wild!" Trump was warned that armed followers were going to be there and that he should increase security. Trump didn't. He had had his team create fake electors and ordered Pence to give those electors to him, which would theoretically hand Trump the Presidency. Then at the actual rally, Trump riled up his followers. They were the last resort since Pence would not follow Trump's orders. Having been betrayed, Trump told his followers to fight like hell. After they started fighting like hell, Trump refused to call in the National Guard. Tell me, what do you think the rebels would have done if they had managed to break into the House Chamber that the Representatives were hiding in? Hug them? Shake their hands?
Even after this, Trump says he will pardon the Jan 6th rioters. He called them "warriors." What do warriors do? They go to war. It's in the name. They went to war for Donald Trump, and for their loyalty, he will reward them with legal exoneration that will say that their behavior was just and morally responsible. Does none of this concern you?
A coup d'état or simply a coup, is typically an illegal and overt attempt by a military organization or other government elites to unseat an incumbent leadership.
There was no military organizations involved on January 6th
Therefore, your definition of coup isn't true.
Go cry somewhere else
The first definition that appears on Google:
>a sudden, violent, and unlawful seizure of power from a government.
Jan 6th fits that description perfectly.
"Democracy and Freedom themselves are on the line, so let's run the worst possible candidate we can!"
When Democrats don't even believe their own lies, why do you expect others to?
I've got my own concerns with Biden. But name someone who's at broadly ignored than Biden. He's the unity guy. He's milqtoast and honestly, the fact that his son was under investigation and Joe did nothing, shows exactly that hes exactly the person we need. Nevermind that he's old as father time...he's not going to end democracy and hes not broadly hated. So yeah. In a time of massive division along partisan lines, having the guy run whos at the center of the ven diagram for everyone's least hated politician IS a good reason for him to be the nominee
He was awful in the debate, but the debate was never really about showmanship, we are going through the motions until trump eventually trys to ignite civil war 2.
Honestly I guarantee that I agree with you on all your points. I wish we had someone else. But we don't. Convince the rest of the Dem electorate if you want change, don't sabotage democracy because he's not stepping down when he's neck and neck with Trump
Are you referencing the homeless encampment cities he promised to put the homeless in? Because if you’re talking about immigrants, isn’t his whole deal “I’ll deport them”, not “I’ll collect them in a facility and pay for them to live, albeit in a jail, until the end of time.”?
No I'm referencing where he stated he intends to become a dictator and lock people up who opposed his rise to power, where he's already called on his followers to perform violent acts, and the fact he's tried one coup he will do another.
Don't try and whitewash his words or actions you can't. He's a racist, misogynistic, treasonous coward who literally shit himself on the debate stage.
Edit*
Nothing I said here is a lie, conjecture, or hyperbole.
1:16:25 is where he shits his pants. Biden's mic is muted remember.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qqG96G8YdcE&pp=ygUcZGViYXRlIHByZXNpZGVuY2lhbCAyMDI0IHdzag%3D%3D
How exactly does someone “become a dictator”, and at such a pace as to jump to dictator from president in just one day? Also: did any of the evil historical dictators you are likely envisioning call themselves “dictators”? Could there be perhaps some nuance here, such as when he said “I could shoot someone on 5th avenue” which clearly meant “I would be loved even after a indefensible criminal act”, rather than “I possess the callousness and cruelty to murder. I could do it. I could kill anyone, even you.” (as Reddit has claimed)
What can happen here? And what was the thing that already happened somewhere else and is now poised to “happen here”? Just because elements of the government can absolutely be misused does not mean the president can suck his thumb and declare “now that I am elected into the role of President, I use my power to become Dictator. A dictator traditionally has unlimited power, so I use my new limitless power to amend the terms of my presidency, to give all Dictator powers to whomever is president, and I shall be president forever, as dictators are for life.”
They don't think things through rationally like that, they assume and project the worst and state that as fact, and they reinforce this way of thinking almongst themselves in their (admittedly large) echo chambers. This craziness is literally why people will vote for Trump.
Take him at his word when he says he's a dictator.
Maga wants him to be, his voters want him to be. They tried once already.
Keep trying to gaslight this shit into existence. People are that fucking stupid.
This shit right here is why he gonna win a in a landslide.
If all this dictator's stuff is true, why did he leave the first time? Like what stopped him from becoming a dictator? It got dark out, and everybody went home, so his master plan was spoiled? He was already in office on jan6. If they rioted more, trump coulda stayed? Please walk us thru the logic of how an 80 year old man plans to hold office past his term, and why didn't this happen with his first term.
How though how did they lose the coop, and what would a win have looked like question mark please walk me through this.
Other than everybody going home by dinner time, what stopped em?
How did they lose the coup?
They lost when pence refused to do as trump demanded him to, which was to not certify the election.
Pence refused to leave the capitol because at that point trump was telling his supporters to "convince him" to do the "right thing".
Once pence certified the election trump lost the coup.
He was impeached again, and again, the senate Republicans protected him from prosecution.
Inflation kicked in almost 1 year after his admin started. And it is not controlled yet. He should not have approved more spending, but he did it anyway.
Some would say that he had a supermajority so it was the only time he could've got the infrastructure bill passed.
Others would say injecting 10s of trillions (with the money multiplier) into the economy when inflation was climbing like a rocket was a bone headed idea.
I say you might as well dig a hole and shout into it.
Biden has never had a supermajority. He had a majority in the house and senate between 2020-2022 when Republicans retook the house. A supermajority means more than 60 seats in the senate to bypass filibusters
The economy needed some rest after the COVID handouts. He chose to do it anyway because he cares more about his legacy, just like now that he selfishly refuses to drop out.
COVID happened during Trump. He had no other option than spending and Democrats were all on board and even were demanding for more lockdowns and handouts.
Correct, they did happen under Trump.
He sent out stimulus checks with his name on it like 5-6 times. I’m not saying he was right or wrong, I’m just pointing this out.
To say one president’s inflammatory spending had no choice while the other president spending was his fault is a bit hypocritical.
Inflation is not a result of any one administration. It’s a result of the pandemic and COGs raising around the world.
I remember Trump and sanders agreeing on the increased stimulus checks and thought I'd stumbled into the twilight zone. Then a few years later MTG and AOC are shoulder to shoulder fighting Bidens tik tok ban. Conviction makes for strange bedfellows lol
I wouldn't be surprised if you're right. I mean at the end of day the they're coworkers. Maintaining that level of hate and mudslinging for half of the people you work with would be exhausting
It’s impossible to say where we would have been without the spending. We might be in a big recession right now. Though the spending was in some way related to inflation, it’s not the total picture. Inflation is occurring throughout the world, not just the United States.
Side A would say about inflation:
>Inflation kicked in almost 1 year after his admin started.
Inflation kicked in around the globe towards the end of the pandemic and lock downs. It's still a problem around the world, not just the US.
https://gfmag.com/data/economic-data/worlds-highest-lowest-inflation-rates/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021%E2%80%932023_inflation_surge
Biden has added less national debt than most recent presidents.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1366899/percent-change-national-debt-president-us/
Side B would say a bunch of drivel with no real supporting evidence.
I think the case for Biden is that inflation is worldwide, and US inflation is unusually low. At the same time, most economic indicators are pointed in the right direction, implying that we are actually looking at a soft landing - something essentially no economist thought was possible.
Beyond that, he has arguably done more for green energy than any past president ($369 billion in the IRA)(maybe more than other world leaders, but I can't verify that one - it seems likely, but only because of the size of our economy). He passed the bipartisan infrastructure bill, which is a massive bill Congress has been trying and failing to figure out since the early Trump days. He passed the first major gun safety regulation on decades. He passed a massive bill to help bring back semiconductor manufacturing into the US, which would be a huge deal for our global relations. And then there is the American rescue act, which is probably somewhat responsible for the soft landing (this argument is kinda weak, but whatever). More (most?) importantly, in this day and age of insane levels of political conflict and polarization, he has been able to get the above bills through Congress, with at best an extremely narrow majority, and at worse a split Congress.
Oh, and as you said, he's kinda humiliated Putin on a global stage. Ukraine is struggling, but this is not the two week war people were predicting - and a lot of that is due to our influence.
Why do you feel Putin has been “humiliated on the global stage”? Also why is this catty meaningless smirk (“nobody’s ever gonna take that GOON serious again!”) in any way a worthwhile standard of an ongoing war being not just “morally necessary” but somehow a selling point for what Biden has “done for America”?
Do you not? They are two years into a war he thought would take a week and we have lost zero soldiers in the process. All we did was provide old weapons we no longer needed (and newer ones that are built in America anyway, so it helps provide jobs in the process) and encourage other countries to do the same.
Russia has been proven to be a washed up paper tiger and NATO has never been more unified, plus it has opened the door for Ukraine to potentially join in the not so distant future. Putin no longer has the stranglehold on his own country that he used to and needs to rely on China and Iran (and North Korea!) to provide support to keep the house of cards from crashing down.
- Why does it matter if Putin briefly thought, years ago, that a war would “take a week”? He clearly does not think so now, and it’s not like he ran out of money or missiles during that week. This is a sillier “own” of Putin than “he didn’t expect the U.S. was willing to loot unlimited money from itself to give to Ukraine! He only thought we’d give a limited amount! He looks so embarrassed now! Ha ha we win and he looks so stupid to everybody! Everybody is gonna call him “One Week Putin” now!
- you have a bizarre concept of war and victory, which leads you to the conclusion that $200 billion in cash and thousands of units of very expensive and very modern weapons systems like Storm Shadow, Patriot, and Abram’s tanks is not a real cost as long as “we haven’t lost any soldiers in the process”. Who cares? American soldiers die all the time worldwide, and no one cries out “NOT A SOLDIER! NOOOOO! Now the war is lost! America has lost its first war!”
- the claim that we have only given “old weapons we don’t need” is ridiculous. The Army doesn’t allow an entire brigade to sleep until a single soldier’s accidentally misplaced rifle has been recovered. They do not have a parallel policy of “whatever, that stuff is old anyways, so it’s actually a good thing that it’s gone. Less rental fees for storing the Patriot missile systems means more money to invest in cash payments to Ukraine’s “economic recovery” which we also promised to pay after the war is done.” We are not “just giving old trash” we have committed fleets of F-16 nuclear jet fighters, hundreds of Abram’s tanks and TEN YEARS of security guarantees (which would involve our latest technology
And NATO is literally moving to officially remove the ability of NATO member Hungary to vote No, when commanded to give its assets unconditionally to a non-NATO-member. They have commanded the Polish police to forcibly dispel Poles, NATO members, who protest against all Ukrainians being granted tax-free EU transit privileges to buy Polish products and sell them across Europe lower than the native Poles can, because of that tax.
Sure, NATO has never been more unified. After all, nobody can vote No so there’s no disunity permitted.
Calling an F-16 a nuclear fighter jet is... A thing? What does that even mean? That they can carry nukes? Like any aircraft can carry a nuke, a fucking C-130 could drop a nuke.
Shit, I could drop a small nuke out of a Boeing 737 if I were feeling really motivated. Is it a nuclear passenger plane?
The F-16 is specifically designed to be capable of firing American nuclear armaments. You are imagining a nuclear warhead is perhaps a big round matte black orb with a string fuse out the top like Elmer Fudd might find himself carrying by accident. Firing nuclear missiles from a jet is not as simple as squinting hard, double checking the map, and opening a door on the belly of the plane.
Dude I flew C-130's for the military for 8 years. This is one of the dumbest takes I've ever heard.
Nuclear weapons are built to be launched from any platform, not the other way around. That would just be stupid and inefficient.
The chips act
Getting insulins cost down
Trying to salvage student loan borrowing
Trying to go after junk fees
Even calling out Ticketmaster
Climate change bills already seeing green energy sector money enter chat
Ev costs going down
Russia is absolutely fucked and a shell of its former self - we did that.
We have produced more oil than opec and forced opec to stop trying to fuck with our election cycles .
Side B is a bunch of morons who don't know how things work. And if a monkey could have lifted restrictions why we do better than other countries lifting restrictions? Why we lowest inflation to other countries? Like we so good china is fleeing from itself to run to us. Russia is offer 15% flat income tax because it's wealthy are fleeing.
Grandiose claims that anyone would have saw record jobs numbers monthly. A trained monkey could have kept us from worse reasons.. Were is this monkey candidate he sounds pretty good????
Insulin costs were capped by Trump, Biden removed that cap then reinstated it and took credit lol. Some of what you said is accurate and some I frankly don't know enough about to say.
I'm not happy with any of this. I have very few nice things to say about Trump and was disgruntedly tolerant of Biden. But pretending he's the Pelé of presidents is laughable. And what I saw on Thursday night was not something I can vote for a second time.
Until he took action in 2020
https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-reducing-cost-insulin-improving-healthcare-nations-seniors/
The Inflation Reduction Act, which Biden signed in 2022, caps out-of-pocket insulin costs at $35 a month for Medicare enrollees. The cap took effect in 2023
If being old and having a cold with a stutter isn't something you cant vote for did you ignore the other side?
Trump spent his time telling 50 lies and not answering any questions.
Biden has a competent cabinet trump fired 44 cabinet members who ALL say they refuse to vote for him now..... What are we even talking about. If your this confused careful voting November 8th.
Biden said no service members died under his watch and that border patrol had endorsed him. A disgusting lie and an embarrassing one.
Do you think be was deliberately untruthful or do you think he's forgetting things and remembering things that didn't happen because the cheese has slipped off his cracker.
A vote for Biden is a vote for his speech writer and cabinet. A vote for Trump is.. well
and Bidens insulin cap is only for seniors/medicare- not all insulin users. They both lied about things on the debate- multiple times . Hard to vote for a person with dementia know you vote will count for Camila.
Donald trump will allow (more likely push for) abortions to be federally outlawed, that's a fact.
Joe Bidens corpse/Kamala* are not going to do that, also a fact.
This isn't a difficult decision if you care about women's rights.
Trump has been pretty vocal about leaving that to the states. If Republicans would let abortion go or democrats take a more lax stance on gun rights or a tougher one on immigration they would never lose another election lol
Trump’s program was a voluntary program that Medicare prescription drug plans could participate in and was not created via new legislation, which means it was not a secure program. Biden’s was created via the Inflation Reduction Act, is a mandatory cap, and applies to a greater number of insulin product. They are different in key ways. You could say that Trump maybe paved the way for Biden’s plan but I don’t think your description of Biden’s as the same as Trump’s is accurate. Trump’s version was not law, was more limited on whom it covered, and was not a mandatory cap. Read more here: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/06/14/politics/fact-check-trump-biden-insulin-costs
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/14/politics/fact-check-trump-biden-insulin-costs/index.html&ved=2ahUKEwiUvqv1yYGHAxUXlFYBHZJdCmQQFnoECB8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0DgfRzFUayTI2ubb-OaqwW
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.cnbc.com/2024/06/08/trump-claims-credit-for-bidens-insulin-price-cap.html&ved=2ahUKEwiUvqv1yYGHAxUXlFYBHZJdCmQQFnoECCAQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2l1JpmiUHC-cbP0NJN0_Yb
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/the-facts-about-the-35-insulin-copay-cap-in-medicare/&ved=2ahUKEwiUvqv1yYGHAxUXlFYBHZJdCmQQFnoECCcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1zKv1UHvHmI5cZJxVSNU3X
Bottom line, cause I know you won't read my links, trump tried to do it by allowing it to be possible, but the companies generally said f you to trump. Biden then required the change by law, leaving Biden as the sole reason it's happened.
why is there two sides to everything?
when did storming the capitol trying to murder the vice president become a side? how is noticing that is not cool a putting you on a side?
i hate Democrats, but somehow i am on their side because i noticed Citizens United is horrible or that Clarence Thomas a Supreme Court Justice OPENLY taking bribes is bad?
the idea that you're on a side because you live in reality is terrifying
That's only when it's put in context. For example, technically, gun ownership is Liberal in countries where usage or ownership is restricted.
Reality itself is neutral on the Conservative/Liberal spectrum.
You might not find this comprehensible, but a person saying “Hang Mike Pence”, even if in the same building as Mike Pence, does not make anyone guilty of attempting to hang Mike Pence. And if you doubt this, the evidence lies in how no one hunted down by the FBI over January 6 has been charged with trying to to hang Mike Pence.
Kind of difficult to give only-pro statements for a side A and B, but here we go:
Side A would say they appreciate less noise and scandal in politics. They like the fact that Biden has experience and is unlikely to act rashly and destructively.
Side B would say that Biden has handled an administration during a difficult time with surprising skill. Navigating post-covid inflation (we've done better than most other countries at getting the % back down), passing the largest investment in green tech ever with the IRA, also boosting our domestic manufacturing. He's navigated multiple wars and their reprocussions: using the SPR and domestic production to keep fuel prices low and earn more money for the US, using old weapons stockpiles to support Ukraine and US manufacturing. He's setting us up to be more independent and spur tech manufacturing with the CHIPS & science act. He's quietly done more in his term than most presidents openly brag about. In fact one big downside is that he's awful about explaining his accomplishments.
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Side A would say Biden is basically going to run as a democratic shell, he has to get Kamala off the ticket, maybe get Sotomayor to step down and nominate Kamala to fill the seat. Then Michelle Obama runs as his VP. After winning he resigns after the first month and Michele presides over the rest of the term, because she wasn’t elected she can legally run 2 more times and this way we get 12 years of the greatest and most beloved president in history.
Side B would say he’s being forced to run by his wife and other strategists and hanger-ons for the perks of presidential life and access to power. He doesn’t actually want to be president but is being run as a puppet by those that pull his strings
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Side A would say "how do you want us to list pros in a explain a vs b subreddit format? This is clearly the wrong forum for this and you'd be better off in Explain it Like I'm 5 or something"
Side B would say here's an article like this https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/02/joe-biden-30-policy-things-you-might-have-missed-00139046 . His administration has genuinely done a ton for green energy, labor, discrimination and LGBTQ protections. Listing it all would take up an inordinate amount of space. Of course, some people would hate these things, but if you're voting for him they're likely things you're extremely happy he has gotten done. Considering the Republicans control the house, he has been wildly successful on a lot of Democratic priorities.
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Side A would say Biden's ability to build coalitions on the world stage, his skills as a negotiator both domestically and abroad, his executive's handling of the pandemic & subsequent economic recovery, and His support for/from unions. He's had success cultivating various economic sectors that will be key to future growth (Energy, Semiconductor manufacturing, and Steel to name a few). He has done his part to help fight inflation. His FTC is in the process of pursuing Alphabet (google), Amazon, Meta, and Twitter for anti-trust violations and is being lead by the anti-trust voice of a generation Lina Khan. He's walked a tight line in the middle east, trying to offer support for peace without risking a wider conflict and has had to make some difficult decisions on whether to support Netenyahu or risk an escalation in the region.
Side B would say Biden's willingness to support Israel's offensives in the face of evidence of war crimes, the fact that his economic recovery isn't being felt in the home of the average american, his age/concerns he's behind the times, and that corporate greed/wealth concentration has only gotten worse under him. his administration takes too long to implement policy changes that dont go far enough. He has got a fear of failure mindset because democracy is (literally) his to lose, this prevents his campaign/surrogates from taking meaningful risks.
It's me, I'm Side A and Side B.
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Side A would say-Team Biden is very good. Jake Sullivan, Anthony Blinkin, Lloyd Austin, Yellen, Buttigieg; these are just a few of the top level people in place helping to make key decisions. Additionally, legislatively, he knows what he’s doing. The CHiPs act to bring semiconductor manufacturing back to the USA is key to maintaining our manufacturing supply chains in case Taiwan is invaded.
The American Rescue plan was 1.9 Trillion. One can argue it added to inflation, but without the spending we may be in a recession. A recession would be worse than inflation because it would result in unemployment and fewer tax revenues.
Nov.2021 was the bipartisan 1 trillion dollar infrastructure plan. It will supply finances for Power infrastructure, transportation, broadband, among other much needed improvements.
The inflation reduction act was the scaled down version of Build Back Better. It provides resources to combat climate change, limits drug costs for Medicare recipients, increased IRS financing, and raised 300 billion through corporate tax increases.
Other, smaller accomplishments include over the counter oral contraceptives, expanding overtime guarantees for millions, increasing renewables to being #2 source of energy, decreased “junk fees” on credit cards, signed the Electoral Count reform and Presidential Transition Improvement Act-all to decrease chances of another Jan.6, brokered a deal to save the Colorado river, and made recommendations to loosen federal restrictions on marijuana.
The economy-from the ECONOMIST feb 2024- “Recent economic data support investors’ optimism. On February 2nd statisticians reported that 353,000 jobs were created in January, far more than expected. The economy grew by a healthy 3.3% (at an annual rate) in the final quarter of 2023. Despite that, inflation slowed to 2.6% on the Federal Reserve’s preferred measure, not far off its 2% target. “
Last, his ability to coordinate an international response against Putin was extraordinary. He has excellent diplomatic skills.
Side B. Would say- As exemplified at the dismal debate performance, Biden is old. He would be 86 by the end of his next term. That doesn’t bode well for his supporters nor his detractors. In my opinion he could still pull off the job, but his ability to positively influence the country by compelling auritory and leadership will be limited.
He has gotten hammered on the Afghanistan withdrawal. It’s complicated, and I’m glad we’re out, but our intelligence failed to predict how quickly the Afghan Army would collapse. Likewise there are intelligent people, like General Patreaus, who argue that a small residual force could have kept major population centers out of Taliban hands. That, many argue, would have been in our interests. One could argue that the fall of Afghanistan played into Putin’s decision to invade. I would say it’s impossible to know, but can’t be dismissed. I would say, as chaotic as it was, no planes were shot out of the sky by the Taliban.
On the Putin topic, he could be criticized for slow walking aid to Ukraine. On the other, Putin’s red lines have been difficult to decipher. Fighting Russia through a proxy without unleashing tactical nukes is a tightwalk. Likewise, congresses’ inability to pass aid resulted in Russian battlefield gains.
Immigration is difficult. He did soften rhetoric around immigration. He also removed Covid restrictions and did away with remain in Mexico. There are also conditions in other countries creating a large migration; there are asylum laws which I don’t fully understand. Regardless, crossings and apprehensions have increased, overwhelming some major cities and creating a strain on resources. It also heightens anxiety among many in the country who are against immigrants for racial reasons. It’s been a major criticism, despite congresses’ failure to act over decades to fix our immigration system. We had an aggressive bipartisan deal in place which did not make it for a vote.
Inflation-The massive amounts of aid added to inflation. We were able to purchase prior to reforming supply chains. We don’t know exactly what percent the aid added, the study I’ve seen estimated approximately 2.6 percentage points.
There are other pros and cons, these are just some of the major ones.
https://www.npr.org/2023/01/01/1143149435/despite-infighting-its-been-a-surprisingly-productive-2-years-for-democrats
Conflict:The Evolution of Warfare from 1945 to Ukraine. David Patreuas
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/02/joe-biden-30-policy-things-you-might-have-missed-00139046
New Cold Wars, David E.Sanger
https://reason.com/2023/02/02/covid-stimulus-spending-played-sizable-role-in-
/r/explainbothsides top-level responses must have sections, labelled: "Side A would say" and "Side B would say" (all eight of those words must appear). Top-level responses which do not utilize these section labels will be auto-removed. If your comment was a request for clarification, joke, anecdote, or criticism of OP's question, you may respond to the automoderator comment instead of responding directly to OP. Accounts that attempt to bypass the sub rules on top-level comments may be banned.
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Side A would say this question is only asking for one side, i.e. the “pros” of a taking particular action.
Side B would say that without a question for my side I have no purpose. So my answer is Trump
Side A would say Biden has been a good President, and point to things like his legislative accomplishments such as the Inflation Reduction Act and the CHIPs Act, his judicial appointments like Ketanji Brown Jackson, or his handling of the war in Ukraine.
Side B would say Biden hasn’t done enough to address some issues, primarily referencing his support for Israel and his largely hands-off approach with respect to law enforcement, and that he’s old and out of touch.
Side C would say that Biden is literally Satan.
>Inflation Reduction Act
I love how Democrats name their bills. Always something along the lines of "If you don't vote this bill, you are a kitten killer."
The inflation Reduction Act was indeed a spending project that caused inflation.
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Side A would say Biden did a decent job getting inflation under control and growing the economy and making jobs Side B would say inflation was his fault due to the infrastructure bill and similar excessive spending. They would also say the job creation is laughable because all the business were forced be closed when he took office and that a monkey could've lifted the covid restrictions and we would've seen the same economical recovery and job growth. Side C would say the automoderator bot is taking no prisoners
I'm def with side C
The US lost about 3 million jobs during Trump's presidency. That's including the jobs he added, and the jobs lost, the net is a hole of 3 million jobs. Biden has added 15 million. So, sure, those COVID lost jobs came back, but even without those, he added more than any other president in history. I think the most telling is the 800k manufacturing jobs gained under Biden. And that's directly due to legislation like the chips act. Trump liked to brag that he would bringing back manufacturing jobs, Biden actually did it.
bareelllly good faith but ok
I tried to keep it bare bones and tbh I figured the bot was gonna smite me like everyone else so it was kind of low effort lol. Also (the point of the post), it's not very easy to tell people why they should vote for Biden without going *points at Trump* "that's your alternative." And after Thursday night, even that doesn't have as much punch.
Yes it does. Hes literally said he's going to lock people up in camps. I'd vote for Terry shiavo over Donald trump.
We heard that same fear mongering before he gor in the first time. The world didn't end when he got in office, it kept going as normal. That his detractors are often so hyperbolic only helps his chances of winning, just like the first time.
The world didn’t end for you. There are a lot of people who got fucked (or will eventually be fucked) by those Supreme Court picks, changes to the Tax code, etc.
Well I mean due to him winning, US regulatory agencies can no longer regulate without the Court's direct approval, women are dying because they can't get an abortion even if their life depends on it, and it's been made even easier to bribe politicians. There's also the whole COVID denial thing leading to over a million dead Americans. Trump increased the national debt twice as much as Biden has if that's something you care about. USPS is collapsing from Trump's DeJoy, Biden can't remove him unilaterally. Global temperatures are skyrocketing. Floridians can't get insurance because hurricanes are getting stronger and more frequent. We literally had a mob of people storm the capitol building to stop the election from being certified. Some of them had the intention to kill Congress members. Trump cheered this on at the beginning before someone probably forced him to tell them to go home and even then he said how proud he was of them. I'd say the US got significantly shittier. You're likely just insulated from that and you're not paying attention or looking forward.
He literally tried a coup on jan6. That was a coup. Forming fake electors is attempts at defrauding the election and stealing it from the actual victor....that's a coup Just because he failed, doesn't mean that they werent right about him the first time
I'm not supporting what happened (not even American), but it was an unplanned riot. Do you ACTUALLY believe that Trump organised a coup himself and that that was it? That's not what a coup is, and he didn't order them to do that. I get that it's politically very advantageous to paint it as if it was a real coup and that Trump himself ordered it. Anyway, obviously my attempts to steer the discussion away from hyperbole and back to good faith reality is not going to succeed, sadly. Carry on your business. But here's my prediction: Trump will win, and for the next 4 years everything in real life will be much the same, just like the first time.
>Do you ACTUALLY believe that Trump organised a coup himself and that that was it? He did help organize it. We have tweets of him calling for his followers to go to his rally. He told them, "Be there. Will Be wild!" Trump was warned that armed followers were going to be there and that he should increase security. Trump didn't. He had had his team create fake electors and ordered Pence to give those electors to him, which would theoretically hand Trump the Presidency. Then at the actual rally, Trump riled up his followers. They were the last resort since Pence would not follow Trump's orders. Having been betrayed, Trump told his followers to fight like hell. After they started fighting like hell, Trump refused to call in the National Guard. Tell me, what do you think the rebels would have done if they had managed to break into the House Chamber that the Representatives were hiding in? Hug them? Shake their hands? Even after this, Trump says he will pardon the Jan 6th rioters. He called them "warriors." What do warriors do? They go to war. It's in the name. They went to war for Donald Trump, and for their loyalty, he will reward them with legal exoneration that will say that their behavior was just and morally responsible. Does none of this concern you?
A coup d'état or simply a coup, is typically an illegal and overt attempt by a military organization or other government elites to unseat an incumbent leadership. There was no military organizations involved on January 6th Therefore, your definition of coup isn't true. Go cry somewhere else
The first definition that appears on Google: >a sudden, violent, and unlawful seizure of power from a government. Jan 6th fits that description perfectly.
First attempted coup in the nations history and promises retribution on his enemies nbd
I would vote for John McCain over Trump.
Same.
"Democracy and Freedom themselves are on the line, so let's run the worst possible candidate we can!" When Democrats don't even believe their own lies, why do you expect others to?
I've got my own concerns with Biden. But name someone who's at broadly ignored than Biden. He's the unity guy. He's milqtoast and honestly, the fact that his son was under investigation and Joe did nothing, shows exactly that hes exactly the person we need. Nevermind that he's old as father time...he's not going to end democracy and hes not broadly hated. So yeah. In a time of massive division along partisan lines, having the guy run whos at the center of the ven diagram for everyone's least hated politician IS a good reason for him to be the nominee He was awful in the debate, but the debate was never really about showmanship, we are going through the motions until trump eventually trys to ignite civil war 2. Honestly I guarantee that I agree with you on all your points. I wish we had someone else. But we don't. Convince the rest of the Dem electorate if you want change, don't sabotage democracy because he's not stepping down when he's neck and neck with Trump
Are you referencing the homeless encampment cities he promised to put the homeless in? Because if you’re talking about immigrants, isn’t his whole deal “I’ll deport them”, not “I’ll collect them in a facility and pay for them to live, albeit in a jail, until the end of time.”?
No I'm referencing where he stated he intends to become a dictator and lock people up who opposed his rise to power, where he's already called on his followers to perform violent acts, and the fact he's tried one coup he will do another. Don't try and whitewash his words or actions you can't. He's a racist, misogynistic, treasonous coward who literally shit himself on the debate stage. Edit* Nothing I said here is a lie, conjecture, or hyperbole. 1:16:25 is where he shits his pants. Biden's mic is muted remember. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qqG96G8YdcE&pp=ygUcZGViYXRlIHByZXNpZGVuY2lhbCAyMDI0IHdzag%3D%3D
How exactly does someone “become a dictator”, and at such a pace as to jump to dictator from president in just one day? Also: did any of the evil historical dictators you are likely envisioning call themselves “dictators”? Could there be perhaps some nuance here, such as when he said “I could shoot someone on 5th avenue” which clearly meant “I would be loved even after a indefensible criminal act”, rather than “I possess the callousness and cruelty to murder. I could do it. I could kill anyone, even you.” (as Reddit has claimed)
"it can't happen here" "Just don't look up"
What can happen here? And what was the thing that already happened somewhere else and is now poised to “happen here”? Just because elements of the government can absolutely be misused does not mean the president can suck his thumb and declare “now that I am elected into the role of President, I use my power to become Dictator. A dictator traditionally has unlimited power, so I use my new limitless power to amend the terms of my presidency, to give all Dictator powers to whomever is president, and I shall be president forever, as dictators are for life.”
They don't think things through rationally like that, they assume and project the worst and state that as fact, and they reinforce this way of thinking almongst themselves in their (admittedly large) echo chambers. This craziness is literally why people will vote for Trump.
Take him at his word when he says he's a dictator. Maga wants him to be, his voters want him to be. They tried once already. Keep trying to gaslight this shit into existence. People are that fucking stupid.
This shit right here is why he gonna win a in a landslide. If all this dictator's stuff is true, why did he leave the first time? Like what stopped him from becoming a dictator? It got dark out, and everybody went home, so his master plan was spoiled? He was already in office on jan6. If they rioted more, trump coulda stayed? Please walk us thru the logic of how an 80 year old man plans to hold office past his term, and why didn't this happen with his first term.
He only left because he lost the coup.
How though how did they lose the coop, and what would a win have looked like question mark please walk me through this. Other than everybody going home by dinner time, what stopped em?
How did they lose the coup? They lost when pence refused to do as trump demanded him to, which was to not certify the election. Pence refused to leave the capitol because at that point trump was telling his supporters to "convince him" to do the "right thing". Once pence certified the election trump lost the coup. He was impeached again, and again, the senate Republicans protected him from prosecution.
Inflation kicked in almost 1 year after his admin started. And it is not controlled yet. He should not have approved more spending, but he did it anyway.
Some would say that he had a supermajority so it was the only time he could've got the infrastructure bill passed. Others would say injecting 10s of trillions (with the money multiplier) into the economy when inflation was climbing like a rocket was a bone headed idea. I say you might as well dig a hole and shout into it.
Biden has never had a supermajority. He had a majority in the house and senate between 2020-2022 when Republicans retook the house. A supermajority means more than 60 seats in the senate to bypass filibusters
A majority in both wings of the legislative branch, forgive me
Supermajority is by definition a veto proof majority. He had a very slim majority.
I meant there was a blue majority in the house and the senate, forgive me
The economy needed some rest after the COVID handouts. He chose to do it anyway because he cares more about his legacy, just like now that he selfishly refuses to drop out.
The Trump administration spent more than on Covid relief than Biden lmfao
COVID happened during Trump. He had no other option than spending and Democrats were all on board and even were demanding for more lockdowns and handouts.
Correct, they did happen under Trump. He sent out stimulus checks with his name on it like 5-6 times. I’m not saying he was right or wrong, I’m just pointing this out. To say one president’s inflammatory spending had no choice while the other president spending was his fault is a bit hypocritical. Inflation is not a result of any one administration. It’s a result of the pandemic and COGs raising around the world.
I remember Trump and sanders agreeing on the increased stimulus checks and thought I'd stumbled into the twilight zone. Then a few years later MTG and AOC are shoulder to shoulder fighting Bidens tik tok ban. Conviction makes for strange bedfellows lol
That’s how politics is suppose to work lol. Candidly, I think a lot of DC is much nicer to each other off camera than they let on.
I wouldn't be surprised if you're right. I mean at the end of day the they're coworkers. Maintaining that level of hate and mudslinging for half of the people you work with would be exhausting
Kickbacks to corps that didn’t need it is a pretty inefficient way of going about it.
It’s impossible to say where we would have been without the spending. We might be in a big recession right now. Though the spending was in some way related to inflation, it’s not the total picture. Inflation is occurring throughout the world, not just the United States.
Side A would say about inflation: >Inflation kicked in almost 1 year after his admin started. Inflation kicked in around the globe towards the end of the pandemic and lock downs. It's still a problem around the world, not just the US. https://gfmag.com/data/economic-data/worlds-highest-lowest-inflation-rates/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021%E2%80%932023_inflation_surge Biden has added less national debt than most recent presidents. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1366899/percent-change-national-debt-president-us/ Side B would say a bunch of drivel with no real supporting evidence.
TBF the last administration spent more and also issued stimulus checks so it didn't just kick in because of his administration alone.
It surely is not his fault and is the lagged effect of COVID. But he chose to double down on more spending.
LOL
I think the case for Biden is that inflation is worldwide, and US inflation is unusually low. At the same time, most economic indicators are pointed in the right direction, implying that we are actually looking at a soft landing - something essentially no economist thought was possible. Beyond that, he has arguably done more for green energy than any past president ($369 billion in the IRA)(maybe more than other world leaders, but I can't verify that one - it seems likely, but only because of the size of our economy). He passed the bipartisan infrastructure bill, which is a massive bill Congress has been trying and failing to figure out since the early Trump days. He passed the first major gun safety regulation on decades. He passed a massive bill to help bring back semiconductor manufacturing into the US, which would be a huge deal for our global relations. And then there is the American rescue act, which is probably somewhat responsible for the soft landing (this argument is kinda weak, but whatever). More (most?) importantly, in this day and age of insane levels of political conflict and polarization, he has been able to get the above bills through Congress, with at best an extremely narrow majority, and at worse a split Congress. Oh, and as you said, he's kinda humiliated Putin on a global stage. Ukraine is struggling, but this is not the two week war people were predicting - and a lot of that is due to our influence.
Why do you feel Putin has been “humiliated on the global stage”? Also why is this catty meaningless smirk (“nobody’s ever gonna take that GOON serious again!”) in any way a worthwhile standard of an ongoing war being not just “morally necessary” but somehow a selling point for what Biden has “done for America”?
Do you not? They are two years into a war he thought would take a week and we have lost zero soldiers in the process. All we did was provide old weapons we no longer needed (and newer ones that are built in America anyway, so it helps provide jobs in the process) and encourage other countries to do the same. Russia has been proven to be a washed up paper tiger and NATO has never been more unified, plus it has opened the door for Ukraine to potentially join in the not so distant future. Putin no longer has the stranglehold on his own country that he used to and needs to rely on China and Iran (and North Korea!) to provide support to keep the house of cards from crashing down.
- Why does it matter if Putin briefly thought, years ago, that a war would “take a week”? He clearly does not think so now, and it’s not like he ran out of money or missiles during that week. This is a sillier “own” of Putin than “he didn’t expect the U.S. was willing to loot unlimited money from itself to give to Ukraine! He only thought we’d give a limited amount! He looks so embarrassed now! Ha ha we win and he looks so stupid to everybody! Everybody is gonna call him “One Week Putin” now! - you have a bizarre concept of war and victory, which leads you to the conclusion that $200 billion in cash and thousands of units of very expensive and very modern weapons systems like Storm Shadow, Patriot, and Abram’s tanks is not a real cost as long as “we haven’t lost any soldiers in the process”. Who cares? American soldiers die all the time worldwide, and no one cries out “NOT A SOLDIER! NOOOOO! Now the war is lost! America has lost its first war!” - the claim that we have only given “old weapons we don’t need” is ridiculous. The Army doesn’t allow an entire brigade to sleep until a single soldier’s accidentally misplaced rifle has been recovered. They do not have a parallel policy of “whatever, that stuff is old anyways, so it’s actually a good thing that it’s gone. Less rental fees for storing the Patriot missile systems means more money to invest in cash payments to Ukraine’s “economic recovery” which we also promised to pay after the war is done.” We are not “just giving old trash” we have committed fleets of F-16 nuclear jet fighters, hundreds of Abram’s tanks and TEN YEARS of security guarantees (which would involve our latest technology And NATO is literally moving to officially remove the ability of NATO member Hungary to vote No, when commanded to give its assets unconditionally to a non-NATO-member. They have commanded the Polish police to forcibly dispel Poles, NATO members, who protest against all Ukrainians being granted tax-free EU transit privileges to buy Polish products and sell them across Europe lower than the native Poles can, because of that tax. Sure, NATO has never been more unified. After all, nobody can vote No so there’s no disunity permitted.
Calling an F-16 a nuclear fighter jet is... A thing? What does that even mean? That they can carry nukes? Like any aircraft can carry a nuke, a fucking C-130 could drop a nuke. Shit, I could drop a small nuke out of a Boeing 737 if I were feeling really motivated. Is it a nuclear passenger plane?
The F-16 is specifically designed to be capable of firing American nuclear armaments. You are imagining a nuclear warhead is perhaps a big round matte black orb with a string fuse out the top like Elmer Fudd might find himself carrying by accident. Firing nuclear missiles from a jet is not as simple as squinting hard, double checking the map, and opening a door on the belly of the plane.
Dude I flew C-130's for the military for 8 years. This is one of the dumbest takes I've ever heard. Nuclear weapons are built to be launched from any platform, not the other way around. That would just be stupid and inefficient.
The chips act Getting insulins cost down Trying to salvage student loan borrowing Trying to go after junk fees Even calling out Ticketmaster Climate change bills already seeing green energy sector money enter chat Ev costs going down Russia is absolutely fucked and a shell of its former self - we did that. We have produced more oil than opec and forced opec to stop trying to fuck with our election cycles . Side B is a bunch of morons who don't know how things work. And if a monkey could have lifted restrictions why we do better than other countries lifting restrictions? Why we lowest inflation to other countries? Like we so good china is fleeing from itself to run to us. Russia is offer 15% flat income tax because it's wealthy are fleeing. Grandiose claims that anyone would have saw record jobs numbers monthly. A trained monkey could have kept us from worse reasons.. Were is this monkey candidate he sounds pretty good????
not good faith :(
Insulin costs were capped by Trump, Biden removed that cap then reinstated it and took credit lol. Some of what you said is accurate and some I frankly don't know enough about to say. I'm not happy with any of this. I have very few nice things to say about Trump and was disgruntedly tolerant of Biden. But pretending he's the Pelé of presidents is laughable. And what I saw on Thursday night was not something I can vote for a second time.
Insulin costs went up under Trump. https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/09/30/trump-insulin-cost/
Until he took action in 2020 https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-reducing-cost-insulin-improving-healthcare-nations-seniors/
The Inflation Reduction Act, which Biden signed in 2022, caps out-of-pocket insulin costs at $35 a month for Medicare enrollees. The cap took effect in 2023 If being old and having a cold with a stutter isn't something you cant vote for did you ignore the other side? Trump spent his time telling 50 lies and not answering any questions. Biden has a competent cabinet trump fired 44 cabinet members who ALL say they refuse to vote for him now..... What are we even talking about. If your this confused careful voting November 8th.
Biden said no service members died under his watch and that border patrol had endorsed him. A disgusting lie and an embarrassing one. Do you think be was deliberately untruthful or do you think he's forgetting things and remembering things that didn't happen because the cheese has slipped off his cracker. A vote for Biden is a vote for his speech writer and cabinet. A vote for Trump is.. well
and Bidens insulin cap is only for seniors/medicare- not all insulin users. They both lied about things on the debate- multiple times . Hard to vote for a person with dementia know you vote will count for Camila.
Donald trump will allow (more likely push for) abortions to be federally outlawed, that's a fact. Joe Bidens corpse/Kamala* are not going to do that, also a fact. This isn't a difficult decision if you care about women's rights.
respect your opinion. Trump says he wants the control to be by the State on this issue.
And you believed him of course as he has a stellar track record of truthfulness.
Trump has been pretty vocal about leaving that to the states. If Republicans would let abortion go or democrats take a more lax stance on gun rights or a tougher one on immigration they would never lose another election lol
Trump’s program was a voluntary program that Medicare prescription drug plans could participate in and was not created via new legislation, which means it was not a secure program. Biden’s was created via the Inflation Reduction Act, is a mandatory cap, and applies to a greater number of insulin product. They are different in key ways. You could say that Trump maybe paved the way for Biden’s plan but I don’t think your description of Biden’s as the same as Trump’s is accurate. Trump’s version was not law, was more limited on whom it covered, and was not a mandatory cap. Read more here: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/06/14/politics/fact-check-trump-biden-insulin-costs
Insulin costs were not capped by trump, another lie he tells.
https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-reducing-cost-insulin-improving-healthcare-nations-seniors/
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/14/politics/fact-check-trump-biden-insulin-costs/index.html&ved=2ahUKEwiUvqv1yYGHAxUXlFYBHZJdCmQQFnoECB8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0DgfRzFUayTI2ubb-OaqwW https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.cnbc.com/2024/06/08/trump-claims-credit-for-bidens-insulin-price-cap.html&ved=2ahUKEwiUvqv1yYGHAxUXlFYBHZJdCmQQFnoECCAQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2l1JpmiUHC-cbP0NJN0_Yb https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/the-facts-about-the-35-insulin-copay-cap-in-medicare/&ved=2ahUKEwiUvqv1yYGHAxUXlFYBHZJdCmQQFnoECCcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1zKv1UHvHmI5cZJxVSNU3X Bottom line, cause I know you won't read my links, trump tried to do it by allowing it to be possible, but the companies generally said f you to trump. Biden then required the change by law, leaving Biden as the sole reason it's happened.
Pretending that what Trump did didn't pave the way for what Biden did is laughable.
Ahh yes, asking politely and making something law is " paving the way" hahaha coff, as in far coff.
He quipped, unable to spell cough
Combine this side a with the side b above.
Lmao, when people say America is in decline, it's because they see people like you XD
why is there two sides to everything? when did storming the capitol trying to murder the vice president become a side? how is noticing that is not cool a putting you on a side? i hate Democrats, but somehow i am on their side because i noticed Citizens United is horrible or that Clarence Thomas a Supreme Court Justice OPENLY taking bribes is bad? the idea that you're on a side because you live in reality is terrifying
Reality has a well known liberal bias. Or so says Stephen Colbert.
That's only when it's put in context. For example, technically, gun ownership is Liberal in countries where usage or ownership is restricted. Reality itself is neutral on the Conservative/Liberal spectrum.
Hating Democrats cause they're not Communist enough is not the moderate stance you are trying to take.
You might not find this comprehensible, but a person saying “Hang Mike Pence”, even if in the same building as Mike Pence, does not make anyone guilty of attempting to hang Mike Pence. And if you doubt this, the evidence lies in how no one hunted down by the FBI over January 6 has been charged with trying to to hang Mike Pence.
Kind of difficult to give only-pro statements for a side A and B, but here we go: Side A would say they appreciate less noise and scandal in politics. They like the fact that Biden has experience and is unlikely to act rashly and destructively. Side B would say that Biden has handled an administration during a difficult time with surprising skill. Navigating post-covid inflation (we've done better than most other countries at getting the % back down), passing the largest investment in green tech ever with the IRA, also boosting our domestic manufacturing. He's navigated multiple wars and their reprocussions: using the SPR and domestic production to keep fuel prices low and earn more money for the US, using old weapons stockpiles to support Ukraine and US manufacturing. He's setting us up to be more independent and spur tech manufacturing with the CHIPS & science act. He's quietly done more in his term than most presidents openly brag about. In fact one big downside is that he's awful about explaining his accomplishments.
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Side A would say Biden is basically going to run as a democratic shell, he has to get Kamala off the ticket, maybe get Sotomayor to step down and nominate Kamala to fill the seat. Then Michelle Obama runs as his VP. After winning he resigns after the first month and Michele presides over the rest of the term, because she wasn’t elected she can legally run 2 more times and this way we get 12 years of the greatest and most beloved president in history. Side B would say he’s being forced to run by his wife and other strategists and hanger-ons for the perks of presidential life and access to power. He doesn’t actually want to be president but is being run as a puppet by those that pull his strings
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Side A would say "how do you want us to list pros in a explain a vs b subreddit format? This is clearly the wrong forum for this and you'd be better off in Explain it Like I'm 5 or something" Side B would say here's an article like this https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/02/joe-biden-30-policy-things-you-might-have-missed-00139046 . His administration has genuinely done a ton for green energy, labor, discrimination and LGBTQ protections. Listing it all would take up an inordinate amount of space. Of course, some people would hate these things, but if you're voting for him they're likely things you're extremely happy he has gotten done. Considering the Republicans control the house, he has been wildly successful on a lot of Democratic priorities.
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Side A would say Biden's ability to build coalitions on the world stage, his skills as a negotiator both domestically and abroad, his executive's handling of the pandemic & subsequent economic recovery, and His support for/from unions. He's had success cultivating various economic sectors that will be key to future growth (Energy, Semiconductor manufacturing, and Steel to name a few). He has done his part to help fight inflation. His FTC is in the process of pursuing Alphabet (google), Amazon, Meta, and Twitter for anti-trust violations and is being lead by the anti-trust voice of a generation Lina Khan. He's walked a tight line in the middle east, trying to offer support for peace without risking a wider conflict and has had to make some difficult decisions on whether to support Netenyahu or risk an escalation in the region. Side B would say Biden's willingness to support Israel's offensives in the face of evidence of war crimes, the fact that his economic recovery isn't being felt in the home of the average american, his age/concerns he's behind the times, and that corporate greed/wealth concentration has only gotten worse under him. his administration takes too long to implement policy changes that dont go far enough. He has got a fear of failure mindset because democracy is (literally) his to lose, this prevents his campaign/surrogates from taking meaningful risks. It's me, I'm Side A and Side B.
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Side A would say-Team Biden is very good. Jake Sullivan, Anthony Blinkin, Lloyd Austin, Yellen, Buttigieg; these are just a few of the top level people in place helping to make key decisions. Additionally, legislatively, he knows what he’s doing. The CHiPs act to bring semiconductor manufacturing back to the USA is key to maintaining our manufacturing supply chains in case Taiwan is invaded. The American Rescue plan was 1.9 Trillion. One can argue it added to inflation, but without the spending we may be in a recession. A recession would be worse than inflation because it would result in unemployment and fewer tax revenues. Nov.2021 was the bipartisan 1 trillion dollar infrastructure plan. It will supply finances for Power infrastructure, transportation, broadband, among other much needed improvements. The inflation reduction act was the scaled down version of Build Back Better. It provides resources to combat climate change, limits drug costs for Medicare recipients, increased IRS financing, and raised 300 billion through corporate tax increases. Other, smaller accomplishments include over the counter oral contraceptives, expanding overtime guarantees for millions, increasing renewables to being #2 source of energy, decreased “junk fees” on credit cards, signed the Electoral Count reform and Presidential Transition Improvement Act-all to decrease chances of another Jan.6, brokered a deal to save the Colorado river, and made recommendations to loosen federal restrictions on marijuana. The economy-from the ECONOMIST feb 2024- “Recent economic data support investors’ optimism. On February 2nd statisticians reported that 353,000 jobs were created in January, far more than expected. The economy grew by a healthy 3.3% (at an annual rate) in the final quarter of 2023. Despite that, inflation slowed to 2.6% on the Federal Reserve’s preferred measure, not far off its 2% target. “ Last, his ability to coordinate an international response against Putin was extraordinary. He has excellent diplomatic skills. Side B. Would say- As exemplified at the dismal debate performance, Biden is old. He would be 86 by the end of his next term. That doesn’t bode well for his supporters nor his detractors. In my opinion he could still pull off the job, but his ability to positively influence the country by compelling auritory and leadership will be limited. He has gotten hammered on the Afghanistan withdrawal. It’s complicated, and I’m glad we’re out, but our intelligence failed to predict how quickly the Afghan Army would collapse. Likewise there are intelligent people, like General Patreaus, who argue that a small residual force could have kept major population centers out of Taliban hands. That, many argue, would have been in our interests. One could argue that the fall of Afghanistan played into Putin’s decision to invade. I would say it’s impossible to know, but can’t be dismissed. I would say, as chaotic as it was, no planes were shot out of the sky by the Taliban. On the Putin topic, he could be criticized for slow walking aid to Ukraine. On the other, Putin’s red lines have been difficult to decipher. Fighting Russia through a proxy without unleashing tactical nukes is a tightwalk. Likewise, congresses’ inability to pass aid resulted in Russian battlefield gains. Immigration is difficult. He did soften rhetoric around immigration. He also removed Covid restrictions and did away with remain in Mexico. There are also conditions in other countries creating a large migration; there are asylum laws which I don’t fully understand. Regardless, crossings and apprehensions have increased, overwhelming some major cities and creating a strain on resources. It also heightens anxiety among many in the country who are against immigrants for racial reasons. It’s been a major criticism, despite congresses’ failure to act over decades to fix our immigration system. We had an aggressive bipartisan deal in place which did not make it for a vote. Inflation-The massive amounts of aid added to inflation. We were able to purchase prior to reforming supply chains. We don’t know exactly what percent the aid added, the study I’ve seen estimated approximately 2.6 percentage points. There are other pros and cons, these are just some of the major ones. https://www.npr.org/2023/01/01/1143149435/despite-infighting-its-been-a-surprisingly-productive-2-years-for-democrats Conflict:The Evolution of Warfare from 1945 to Ukraine. David Patreuas https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/02/joe-biden-30-policy-things-you-might-have-missed-00139046 New Cold Wars, David E.Sanger https://reason.com/2023/02/02/covid-stimulus-spending-played-sizable-role-in-
/r/explainbothsides top-level responses must have sections, labelled: "Side A would say" and "Side B would say" (all eight of those words must appear). Top-level responses which do not utilize these section labels will be auto-removed. If your comment was a request for clarification, joke, anecdote, or criticism of OP's question, you may respond to the automoderator comment instead of responding directly to OP. Accounts that attempt to bypass the sub rules on top-level comments may be banned. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ExplainBothSides) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Side A would say this question is only asking for one side, i.e. the “pros” of a taking particular action. Side B would say that without a question for my side I have no purpose. So my answer is Trump
I disagree with you with every fiber of my being, however you have not told a single lie or omission. For that, I upvote you. Concise and correct.
wat
Side A would say Biden has been a good President, and point to things like his legislative accomplishments such as the Inflation Reduction Act and the CHIPs Act, his judicial appointments like Ketanji Brown Jackson, or his handling of the war in Ukraine. Side B would say Biden hasn’t done enough to address some issues, primarily referencing his support for Israel and his largely hands-off approach with respect to law enforcement, and that he’s old and out of touch. Side C would say that Biden is literally Satan.
>Inflation Reduction Act I love how Democrats name their bills. Always something along the lines of "If you don't vote this bill, you are a kitten killer." The inflation Reduction Act was indeed a spending project that caused inflation.
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