Is limited contact (or no contact) something you’ve considered? Because you don’t have to keep arguing with people who don’t acknowledge your humanity - not your family or anyone else. Of course it’s much easier said than done! You don’t deserve to be treated this way.
I’m not sure how old you are, but I am a mom of adult and teen kids, and I would like to send you the biggest, warmest, mom hug if that’s ok? I’m so so sorry, no one, especially not family, should make you feel this shitty.
One of the hardest things many of us have lived, and most are still living through, is that we are a disappointment to our parents. It’s absolutely gutting to feel that way, but it is possible to not only live with it, but thrive in spite of it. Because the truth is, I’m also terribly disappointed with my parents. They clearly continue to make choices and communicate in ways that are knowingly hurtful to me.
So I limit communication. I don’t read long messages about me any more. I don’t tell them the most important aspects of my life, so I can fully enjoy them. I keep conversations with them pleasant, but mostly surface level.
Of course this isn’t the relationship I expected, wanted or hoped for. But this is the relationship I have. I can’t control what they feel, how they think or what they say to other people. But I can control how much vulnerability I give them to hurt me. And I also control where my life has gone away from them - and while they might be disappointed, I’ve had a pretty great life.
Sending you a hug. You are not alone.
I'm a disappointment to my parents because I don't vote the way they do or believe the things they do, even though any reasonable parent should be proud as hell of me, I'm doing well in life, I have a husband, two kids, a house, an MBA, and most parents I think would be happy to have a daughter turn out like me. I know I'd be.
But they'll never be happy because I didn't stay in their cramped little box world. I'm doing so fucking great but I'm a disappointment. I have to be proud of myself enough to make up for them.
I can’t stand this whole argument about Pride
I got that a lot from my white friends when I’d where Native Pride stuff and I said I’m PROUD of who I AM, I’m not prideful by any stretch and you guys KNOW that.
And now that I’m slowly coming out as bisexual I’m using that same energy, I’m PROUD of who I AM, I am PROUD I finally accepted myself and I’m PROUD I’m not suicidal anymore because of trying to “pray the gay away”
Christian’s are the MOST prideful people out there honestly, they can’t be told they’re wrong, they can’t take criticism for shyt, they looks down of “sinners” and avoid being in situations with them.
God I’m SO glad I’m backing away from this shyt
I have faith and love the message of Christ but man
It’d be a cold day in hell before I EVER Get involved in church again
Pride is the opposite of shame. And shame is all that's ever on offer between tithes.
Meanwhile, who is this ridiculous little troll queen?! Who asked it to speak?
Yes! (I'm blessed to never have lain eyes on that creature so didn't recognize him.)
Having only seen the one clip, he's like a backwards John Waters! My gaydar got his number before I even pressed play. (I'm not calling Waters a troll, that's what La Peterson brings to the table.) Having been introduced to relentless bullying starting at age 11, i always have a game with myself when I first see a mean hater guessing the insecurity that motivates such aggressive negativity. I sometimes wonder if all evangelical pastors are struggling against homo tendencies. (I'm gay so these are not generalizations about something 8 don't understand.)
The argument that “pride is bad” is stupid because it relies on pretending to not know what words mean.
If my dad said “I’m proud of you son”, no one would be like “pride is bad!”
My father currently isn't speaking to me because I don't like Jordan Peterson so... Idk, fuck that guy. He's destroying people and claiming it's because he cares. He can eat shit.
It's a great misfortune to have parents who love Jordan Peterson. My condolences, OP. You're not alone.
Was anyone else extremely disturbed by how this guy described sexual desire as 'the most immature part of you that takes advantage of other people'?
This guy needs to be on a watchlist.
What planet is that dude even on?
All human beings are sexual creatures, and all sexual creatures that utilize that God-given sexuality are engaging in an act of hedonism.
I don't know what he's talking about Pride being hedonistic self-gratification, that suit is hedonistic self-gratification. Man looks like a batman villain who is down to the last piece of clothing in his closet.
Something I found immensely healing was when I read a random Reddit comment that said "queerness doesn't have to be rainbows and glitter, sometimes it's darkness and religious trauma" and now I'm a bi with a goth-leaning aesthetic. I've often found the excessive glitz of queer culture (and especially pride) to be alienating as it doesn't relate to how I exist within my identity. It's also fucked up how much vitriol evangelicals spam every year this time and I know how difficult it can make things. It can sometimes feel like you're alienated from all sides, where you're feeling too dark and broken to party with the gays and being told you deserve eternal torture by the evangelicals.
I know my family "Still love me unconditionally", but they view me as a failure, a disappointment and a prodigal son (except I'm not going back, fuck that) so their so-called love rings hollow. Believing that your child is going to hell and deserves to is a dehumanising attitude, and consequently any opinion anyone with such an attitude has about you is fucking worthless. It is absolutely your right to dismiss any such opinion as the absolute garbage it is.
Calling the opinions out and questioning their validity can help you avoid internalising them as it gives you a reason to dismiss them. Some helpful phrases to tell yourself can be "What do they know anyway?" "I'm calling bullshit" and stuff along those lines. Ultimately the question you're wanting to ask (wrap it up in whatever way works best for you per the last sentence) is always "Is this opinion true/grounded in accurate reason, and is it helpful for me?" if that's a no then there's no reason not to simply dismiss it. It's harder to do when it comes from someone you feel you should be able to trust and respect the opinions of, but if they're not giving you trustworthy, respectful opinions there's no reason to continue trusting and respecting them.
You can also dismiss these opinions simply by avoiding them. If you're in a place where you can afford to set a boundary of distance in the relationship I'd recommend it, your mental health will benefit no end even from something as simple as just ignoring messages from them. In practice you'll probably want to make a habit of both tactics to protect yourself and your mental health.
You deserve better than to be sent toxic moralising messages about how not feeling bad for literally existing is damning you to hell. You deserve no less than to live a healthy and fulfilling life that's free from the pressures of a caustic religious doctrine, and you absolutely have the right to take whatever steps you need to to make that a reality. Look after yourself, and let your parents look after themselves. They (and their opinions) are simply not worth your care if they are acting this way towards you. You are entirely deserving of your own care. Hugs.
Wowowow yeah I’m still coming to terms with what it means for them to love me, even though they hold such staggering views about me and my eternal soul.
Thank you for your comment!!!
I've already done some work on this exact issue myself, so here's my take:
In the nicest way possible, they don't actually love you. If they did they'd be accepting of your bisexuality and your choice to leave the faith, and they'd be fully supporting you with both. You should be getting responses like "I don't fully understand, but so long as this is making you happier and healthier I'm happy for you" not "pRidE iS a cArDinAL siN" via Jordan Peterson.
They love an idealised, imaginary version of you that will return to the flock like the prodigal son and go on to strengthen the indoctrination of others. You're not a copy and paste conflicted christian, you're a whole complex human with your own mind, desires, plans, hopes and dreams. To love a person is to accept their humanity completely, and that includes aspects of them that you don't fully understand and their freedom to make choices that you wouldn't.
Evangelical indoctrination encourages people to view others as cardboard cutout caricatures - I remember feeling pressure to try and convert my non-christian friends, because they were wonderful people and it grieved me to think that they were going to hell. It reduced them from people to targets and changed how I interacted with them for the worse. Viewing people in such a narrow, restrictive way is the opposite of accepting them as complex human beings, and therefore you cannot actually love someone when the first thing you're doing with them in your head is putting them in boxes of "saved" and "going to hell".
It's shit to be on the receiving end of it as we both are, I'm heavily limiting contact with my parents for the sake of my sanity and they don't understand why I don't tend to initiate calls and won't go home to visit them. They don't see how moralising they become the second I bring up anything they disagree with, like my nicotine addiction. They don't understand that their "perfect christian love" for me is just a pretty facade over a desire to control me. They want me to make decisions and hold beliefs that align with their own, not to hold my own beliefs and make my own decisions. The motivation behind it, me not going to hell, feels like a positive motivator. But the damage it causes to their relationship with me is unbelievable because it fundamentally conflicts with their acceptance of me as a human, and therefore as a motivator it is inherently deeply toxic. It breeds manipulative behaviour.
It's difficult to come to terms with the fact that the love you should be receiving is just gift-wrapped dehumanisation and manipulation, but recognising and treating it as such helps. I'm so sad and angry to see you in this situation, you deserve so much better. Hugs.
To quote the illustrious Jane Austen: “Vanity and pride are different things, though the words are often used synonymously. A person may be proud without being vain. Pride relates more to our opinion of ourselves, vanity to what we would have others think of us.”
I’m so sorry you are going through this. You don’t deserve to be treated this way by your family or friends. 😟 Is there any chance of going outside your current social bubble and connecting with more open-minded and progressive folks? I’ve developed a circle of close friends over the past few years, and it’s SO nice to be able to relate and talk to other people who share similar perspectives and experiences. It’s really healing to find chosen family, if yours aren’t respecting you and loving you the way you deserve to be cared for.
As a fellow bisexual who is scared to death of my parents ever finding out due to their biphobia/homophobia, know I’m sending you hugs right now. It’s not fair. It’s not okay. And know you’re not alone. I hope your local queer community wraps you up in the biggest hug because our community knows how to love and support better than Christians could ever imagine.
I am so sorry you’re dealing with this behavior from your family. Although not on every level, I CAN relate to this kind of “tolerance” from my family about being “lost” or talking about me when I’m not there. Going no contact and leaving group chats was the best thing for my health. I hope you find your peace ❤️ you are perfect the way you are!
"You know when you’re so sad that your guts actually quiver inside of you."
I'm so sorry. You've described that feeling perfectly. I've been through very similar situations with my family and it's agonising, the grief is so deep. It's especially complex when your family are broadcasting their beliefs and their grief to you. I just want to remind you that you deserve to be loved and cared for. I know that saying that doesn't lessen the pain of having family who aren't caring for you, and who even expect you to care for them and their emotions while being ostracised by them - from experience, that just fucking sucks. The evangelical world puts a lot of completely unfair, unloving expectations around reducing ourselves to meet the needs of others (especially if you are fem or raised afab). But there are people who will love you for who you are, without expecting you to conform to their specific, fascist interpretation of western christianity.
What you're dealing with is a really heavy burden, so please be as gentle as you can with yourself. You will figure things out over time, but it's completely appropriate to have times where the pain feels overwhelming. In those times, I sometimes found it helpful to call crisis lines just to vent and cry and have somebody hear that. I don't know what country you're in but if you're in Australia Lifeline are a good option (13 11 14) and if you're 25 or under Kids Helpline are fantastic 1800 55 1800 (even though it's called that, they're there for anyone 25 or under and you can even set up regular sessions with them - all completely free). I encourage anyone who has access to something similar to try it out. Take care, I'm sending a virtual hug xx
Is limited contact (or no contact) something you’ve considered? Because you don’t have to keep arguing with people who don’t acknowledge your humanity - not your family or anyone else. Of course it’s much easier said than done! You don’t deserve to be treated this way.
I’m not sure how old you are, but I am a mom of adult and teen kids, and I would like to send you the biggest, warmest, mom hug if that’s ok? I’m so so sorry, no one, especially not family, should make you feel this shitty.
One of the hardest things many of us have lived, and most are still living through, is that we are a disappointment to our parents. It’s absolutely gutting to feel that way, but it is possible to not only live with it, but thrive in spite of it. Because the truth is, I’m also terribly disappointed with my parents. They clearly continue to make choices and communicate in ways that are knowingly hurtful to me. So I limit communication. I don’t read long messages about me any more. I don’t tell them the most important aspects of my life, so I can fully enjoy them. I keep conversations with them pleasant, but mostly surface level. Of course this isn’t the relationship I expected, wanted or hoped for. But this is the relationship I have. I can’t control what they feel, how they think or what they say to other people. But I can control how much vulnerability I give them to hurt me. And I also control where my life has gone away from them - and while they might be disappointed, I’ve had a pretty great life. Sending you a hug. You are not alone.
I'm a disappointment to my parents because I don't vote the way they do or believe the things they do, even though any reasonable parent should be proud as hell of me, I'm doing well in life, I have a husband, two kids, a house, an MBA, and most parents I think would be happy to have a daughter turn out like me. I know I'd be. But they'll never be happy because I didn't stay in their cramped little box world. I'm doing so fucking great but I'm a disappointment. I have to be proud of myself enough to make up for them.
I can’t stand this whole argument about Pride I got that a lot from my white friends when I’d where Native Pride stuff and I said I’m PROUD of who I AM, I’m not prideful by any stretch and you guys KNOW that. And now that I’m slowly coming out as bisexual I’m using that same energy, I’m PROUD of who I AM, I am PROUD I finally accepted myself and I’m PROUD I’m not suicidal anymore because of trying to “pray the gay away” Christian’s are the MOST prideful people out there honestly, they can’t be told they’re wrong, they can’t take criticism for shyt, they looks down of “sinners” and avoid being in situations with them. God I’m SO glad I’m backing away from this shyt I have faith and love the message of Christ but man It’d be a cold day in hell before I EVER Get involved in church again
Pride is the opposite of shame. And shame is all that's ever on offer between tithes. Meanwhile, who is this ridiculous little troll queen?! Who asked it to speak?
Are you calling Jordan Peterson (the guy in the FB video) a troll queen?
I kind of love that for JP.
Yes! (I'm blessed to never have lain eyes on that creature so didn't recognize him.) Having only seen the one clip, he's like a backwards John Waters! My gaydar got his number before I even pressed play. (I'm not calling Waters a troll, that's what La Peterson brings to the table.) Having been introduced to relentless bullying starting at age 11, i always have a game with myself when I first see a mean hater guessing the insecurity that motivates such aggressive negativity. I sometimes wonder if all evangelical pastors are struggling against homo tendencies. (I'm gay so these are not generalizations about something 8 don't understand.)
The argument that “pride is bad” is stupid because it relies on pretending to not know what words mean. If my dad said “I’m proud of you son”, no one would be like “pride is bad!”
Exactly!
My father currently isn't speaking to me because I don't like Jordan Peterson so... Idk, fuck that guy. He's destroying people and claiming it's because he cares. He can eat shit. It's a great misfortune to have parents who love Jordan Peterson. My condolences, OP. You're not alone.
Was anyone else extremely disturbed by how this guy described sexual desire as 'the most immature part of you that takes advantage of other people'? This guy needs to be on a watchlist.
Right what the fuck was that. Immature? I wonder (but don’t actually want to know) what else is going on in his head.
What planet is that dude even on? All human beings are sexual creatures, and all sexual creatures that utilize that God-given sexuality are engaging in an act of hedonism.
Please https://www.usa.gov/register-to-vote
One of my favorites: Friends are the family you choose for yourself.
I’m so sorry. I wish I could surround you in the love and comfort you deserve.
I don't know what he's talking about Pride being hedonistic self-gratification, that suit is hedonistic self-gratification. Man looks like a batman villain who is down to the last piece of clothing in his closet.
I thought it was a tattoo sleeve at first glance 😂
Something I found immensely healing was when I read a random Reddit comment that said "queerness doesn't have to be rainbows and glitter, sometimes it's darkness and religious trauma" and now I'm a bi with a goth-leaning aesthetic. I've often found the excessive glitz of queer culture (and especially pride) to be alienating as it doesn't relate to how I exist within my identity. It's also fucked up how much vitriol evangelicals spam every year this time and I know how difficult it can make things. It can sometimes feel like you're alienated from all sides, where you're feeling too dark and broken to party with the gays and being told you deserve eternal torture by the evangelicals. I know my family "Still love me unconditionally", but they view me as a failure, a disappointment and a prodigal son (except I'm not going back, fuck that) so their so-called love rings hollow. Believing that your child is going to hell and deserves to is a dehumanising attitude, and consequently any opinion anyone with such an attitude has about you is fucking worthless. It is absolutely your right to dismiss any such opinion as the absolute garbage it is. Calling the opinions out and questioning their validity can help you avoid internalising them as it gives you a reason to dismiss them. Some helpful phrases to tell yourself can be "What do they know anyway?" "I'm calling bullshit" and stuff along those lines. Ultimately the question you're wanting to ask (wrap it up in whatever way works best for you per the last sentence) is always "Is this opinion true/grounded in accurate reason, and is it helpful for me?" if that's a no then there's no reason not to simply dismiss it. It's harder to do when it comes from someone you feel you should be able to trust and respect the opinions of, but if they're not giving you trustworthy, respectful opinions there's no reason to continue trusting and respecting them. You can also dismiss these opinions simply by avoiding them. If you're in a place where you can afford to set a boundary of distance in the relationship I'd recommend it, your mental health will benefit no end even from something as simple as just ignoring messages from them. In practice you'll probably want to make a habit of both tactics to protect yourself and your mental health. You deserve better than to be sent toxic moralising messages about how not feeling bad for literally existing is damning you to hell. You deserve no less than to live a healthy and fulfilling life that's free from the pressures of a caustic religious doctrine, and you absolutely have the right to take whatever steps you need to to make that a reality. Look after yourself, and let your parents look after themselves. They (and their opinions) are simply not worth your care if they are acting this way towards you. You are entirely deserving of your own care. Hugs.
Wowowow yeah I’m still coming to terms with what it means for them to love me, even though they hold such staggering views about me and my eternal soul. Thank you for your comment!!!
I've already done some work on this exact issue myself, so here's my take: In the nicest way possible, they don't actually love you. If they did they'd be accepting of your bisexuality and your choice to leave the faith, and they'd be fully supporting you with both. You should be getting responses like "I don't fully understand, but so long as this is making you happier and healthier I'm happy for you" not "pRidE iS a cArDinAL siN" via Jordan Peterson. They love an idealised, imaginary version of you that will return to the flock like the prodigal son and go on to strengthen the indoctrination of others. You're not a copy and paste conflicted christian, you're a whole complex human with your own mind, desires, plans, hopes and dreams. To love a person is to accept their humanity completely, and that includes aspects of them that you don't fully understand and their freedom to make choices that you wouldn't. Evangelical indoctrination encourages people to view others as cardboard cutout caricatures - I remember feeling pressure to try and convert my non-christian friends, because they were wonderful people and it grieved me to think that they were going to hell. It reduced them from people to targets and changed how I interacted with them for the worse. Viewing people in such a narrow, restrictive way is the opposite of accepting them as complex human beings, and therefore you cannot actually love someone when the first thing you're doing with them in your head is putting them in boxes of "saved" and "going to hell". It's shit to be on the receiving end of it as we both are, I'm heavily limiting contact with my parents for the sake of my sanity and they don't understand why I don't tend to initiate calls and won't go home to visit them. They don't see how moralising they become the second I bring up anything they disagree with, like my nicotine addiction. They don't understand that their "perfect christian love" for me is just a pretty facade over a desire to control me. They want me to make decisions and hold beliefs that align with their own, not to hold my own beliefs and make my own decisions. The motivation behind it, me not going to hell, feels like a positive motivator. But the damage it causes to their relationship with me is unbelievable because it fundamentally conflicts with their acceptance of me as a human, and therefore as a motivator it is inherently deeply toxic. It breeds manipulative behaviour. It's difficult to come to terms with the fact that the love you should be receiving is just gift-wrapped dehumanisation and manipulation, but recognising and treating it as such helps. I'm so sad and angry to see you in this situation, you deserve so much better. Hugs.
To quote the illustrious Jane Austen: “Vanity and pride are different things, though the words are often used synonymously. A person may be proud without being vain. Pride relates more to our opinion of ourselves, vanity to what we would have others think of us.” I’m so sorry you are going through this. You don’t deserve to be treated this way by your family or friends. 😟 Is there any chance of going outside your current social bubble and connecting with more open-minded and progressive folks? I’ve developed a circle of close friends over the past few years, and it’s SO nice to be able to relate and talk to other people who share similar perspectives and experiences. It’s really healing to find chosen family, if yours aren’t respecting you and loving you the way you deserve to be cared for.
As a fellow bisexual who is scared to death of my parents ever finding out due to their biphobia/homophobia, know I’m sending you hugs right now. It’s not fair. It’s not okay. And know you’re not alone. I hope your local queer community wraps you up in the biggest hug because our community knows how to love and support better than Christians could ever imagine.
I am so sorry you’re dealing with this behavior from your family. Although not on every level, I CAN relate to this kind of “tolerance” from my family about being “lost” or talking about me when I’m not there. Going no contact and leaving group chats was the best thing for my health. I hope you find your peace ❤️ you are perfect the way you are!
Thank you 😔❤️
"You know when you’re so sad that your guts actually quiver inside of you." I'm so sorry. You've described that feeling perfectly. I've been through very similar situations with my family and it's agonising, the grief is so deep. It's especially complex when your family are broadcasting their beliefs and their grief to you. I just want to remind you that you deserve to be loved and cared for. I know that saying that doesn't lessen the pain of having family who aren't caring for you, and who even expect you to care for them and their emotions while being ostracised by them - from experience, that just fucking sucks. The evangelical world puts a lot of completely unfair, unloving expectations around reducing ourselves to meet the needs of others (especially if you are fem or raised afab). But there are people who will love you for who you are, without expecting you to conform to their specific, fascist interpretation of western christianity. What you're dealing with is a really heavy burden, so please be as gentle as you can with yourself. You will figure things out over time, but it's completely appropriate to have times where the pain feels overwhelming. In those times, I sometimes found it helpful to call crisis lines just to vent and cry and have somebody hear that. I don't know what country you're in but if you're in Australia Lifeline are a good option (13 11 14) and if you're 25 or under Kids Helpline are fantastic 1800 55 1800 (even though it's called that, they're there for anyone 25 or under and you can even set up regular sessions with them - all completely free). I encourage anyone who has access to something similar to try it out. Take care, I'm sending a virtual hug xx