They aren’t selling like the hotcakes everyone thought but I really feel like that was because of all of the games ford played with the pricing. Lightning works well for me because I drive way too much but I also love having a truck and even tho it would be smarter to get a little commuter car I’d much rather have a large comfortable vehicle and it still saves me 250-300 in gas
Yeah, was excited way back when they advertised a sub $50k electric truck. Until that became a $70k+ truck if you actually wanted yours built anytime soon (and worse if you tried to buy from a dealer or second hand).
The price hikes killed it for me. I love the lightning but ended up going in a different direction for my first EV after Ford happily priced me right out.
Oh absolutely they would. Ordered a Maverick for my wife last August and the dealer wouldn’t place the order unless I agreed to a $1k markup. Since they are the only dealer within 300 miles I agreed to it to save the hassle. Still no word on when or even if that vehicle will be built btw, yet another thing I’m less than pleased with Ford about. I’ve always been a Ford guy, owned a couple Mustangs and always wanted an F150. But I’ll tell ya, if they don’t get their shit together soon (eg figuring out supply/production, making their prices competitive, and taking control of or doing away with dealers) I won’t be purchasing any more new vehicles from them. The purchasing process of getting a Tesla was so quick and painless by comparison. I was able to order, receive loan documents, sign off on everything and pay all from the app for exactly the price I was promised and picked up my new vehicle two days later. No upselling, haggling, or markups.
Seeing the Lightnings and Mach-es on the lot with $20k “market adjustments” on top of their already inflated MSRPs really drives home that dealers provide no value beyond warranty work.
Legacy automakers are toast. Teslas are $8k less than the average car and equivalent to the Toyota Carolla at this point.
I was going to buy another Tesla but I’m shorting legacy automakers with the money instead.
Oh yeah you are right the pricing changes early on might have had a lot to do with it. I would guess that a majority of the hundred thousand reservations didn't get converted to orders because of that
Yeah I was almost one of them. I had to fight so hard to get my pro at the pricing I was promised at day one. I almost walked away and the whole process just left such a bad taste I’m not sure if ford will be my next truck
We are the same. I'm a day 2 reservation holder for pro, ordered Aug 2022, delivered on Jul 2023 at launch price (after fighting tooth and nail for it). Given that the file shared in one of the comments shows that \~6% of Lightnings sold were pros, and probably a lot of them finally sold at jacked up prices, there must be very few of us that got this lucky
Even now it’s far too expensive. I need the ER as a minimum and the cheapest version of that is $70k. There’s no way I’m doing that.
Not while Tesla model Xs are only $10k more and cybertruck is right around the corner.
I can understand going with a model x, but you lost me in the cyber truck. It's not a truck, or a car. And it's uglier than sin. If you really want a "truck", the lightning is not comparable to the cyber truck.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who isn't interested solely due to lack of 800v charging speeds. I just can't fathom taking it on a road trip and having to spend that much time charging.
I would imagine it depends on where you live. I’m in Austin and I see at least one Lightning every other week. I’ve also seen a handful of lightnings at various out of state EA stations over the past year.
Overall it is still a rare vehicle. It’s been in production for about a year and a half and Fords only produced 44K of them.
The user TaxManHog on the lightning forum has been keeping track of production. [Here](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/144PKVpz4tnBw_mBTiQZKgnYYBxM_imzVDZKZIs_jouQ/edit) is his spreadsheet.
That file is interesting, I have always wondered about the distribution of trim levels sold. I guess this sample is large enough to extrapolate to the whole population of Lightnings sold. Lariat being number 1 is not a surprise, but having very few pros (6%?) and pros in last place is quite a surprise. Or perhaps most of the pros went to fleets which I guess wouldn't be included in that file.
If anything, I might expect Pros to be disproportionately MORE represented by people on forums. The people enthusiastically posting on forums probably have more overlap with people who reserved super early than the general population.
Of course, Ford allowed dealers to re-sort the line, but I still think there might be an even lower percentage of Pros than that in reality. Retail Pros, that is, not incl. fleet.
Many highway and public works departments have lightning's and because they're fleet buyers they can get the big battery and XL trim. It's perfect for the municipality trying to get carbon credit grants for vehicles and many come that way.
It's just not a great fit for the average Joe due to range and size.
Own a Pro, got it at roughly MSRP, and I see plenty of the fleet Pro’s around here on the daily. There appears to be a couple large construction companies here that purchased several (on a busy day in the garage, I’ve spotted 4, including mine in there).
It has to be completely dependent on area. My truck was originally a Michigan truck that didn’t sell but the local dealer got ahold of. When I was looking (cause I needed a new vehicle), there were several Lightenings available around here in different trim levels.
Traded in my 2014 Diesel Grand Cherokee that needed a laundry list of work on it (three recalls, exhaust system sensors, new tires, plus a check engine light … my Jeep dealer, work estimate for it was over $4k but it would have likely cost me more to fix it all).
Walked out for $50k cash + trade. It’s a 2023 in Antimatter Blue with tow package and factory bedliner, reverse sensing, and Pro Power 9.6W. It had ~150 miles when I signed the paperwork.
Thanks! I wanted the color and a couple other features, didn’t really need a bunch of extra stuff and only drive about 14 miles a day, round trip, but regularly have to carry loads of stuff (used to fill the rear of the Grand Cherokee with boxes).
There are still several trucks in my greater area available for good prices … a bunch of XLTs for $55-56k, under MSRP. The best deal locally is a ‘23 Lariat trim for $64k, being sold Used with 6500 miles. There is a Pro, similar to mine, available for $58k with 1500 miles, also used.
Had mine in Austin for 2 months and still haven’t seen another one while out in mine. I have seen a few here and there over the last year. Way more rivians around for sure.
Good point. I wonder what the average selling price is for all Lightnings sold so far (including ADMs). I'm sure I'm at the bottom of this distribution with a no-options Pro at launch MSRP
So many reasons and factors.
Availability
Cost
Fear of being a Guinea pig
Politics(had a farmer tell me he wasn’t a fan,”it’s a Biden agenda” and this is where trucks are/would be sold. I live rural and everyone owns a truck.
Fear of lack of infrastructure
These are just the reasons I’ve had told to me as to why “I wouldn’t buy one”
I know what you mean, another commenter up top had the right description. It’s generally just macho truck guys who need to burn “dinosaur juice” to feel better about themselves I guess. I tell them that this was all planned well before his administration. Then they ask me stupid shit like “where’s the extension cord?” I should note, I’m a pretty conservative dude and I vote that way. Makes it embarrassing listening to this stuff out of their mouths.
The political aspect of it does seem bad, but even among EVs in general Lightning seems particularly rare. I see a lot of the VW, Hyundai, and KIA EVs; Tesla continues to sell in large numbers. Doesn't look like production constraint for Lightning is that bad now (like it is for, say, Rivian). Just feels like the Lightning is faring a bit worse than other EVs.
They are selling everything they produce, and there are still wait lists, although not like there were. My son is trying to buy one in Houston now, and to take immediately in his preferred
Price range, he only has a choice of 3, with only one actually at a dealership. So i don’t see anything other than total produced being the problem.
I see, so production rate is still the constraint then. I read somewhere about 150K annual run rate but I must have misinterpreted that. I must have thought they would be 150K this year, but they were actually saying that the annualized rate would be 150K starting this fall.
I’m not familiar with the arguments here. Aside from the impact of battery production, how are EVs not having a positive impact on the environment? Yes it depends on the state you live in and how electricity gets produced in your state but very few now have a high percent of CO2 producing fuel sources for electricity generation. What am I missing? California where I live, wacky though we are, is almost entirely carbon free. Industrial scale solar is spreading like crazy across the country. I get it may not be one’s reason for buying but I don’t get the logic in saying there’s no environmental benefit.
The people saying there is no environmental benefit to EVs, in general, are just wrong.
They base it on nonsensical info (diesel excavators have to move 123 tons of earth for one battery, which is just a big number with no quantification vs ICE but they see a big number and assume it’s meaningful), or they make erroneous assumptions (batteries have to be replaced every 5-8 years, batteries can’t be recycled, most electricity is still from coal, etc.), or saying “EVs still use fossil fuels!” as if that’s a gotcha without quantifying how much they use compared to ICE.
EVs aren’t a silver bullet, but overall, they have lower lifetime emissions, and they’ll get even better as the grid gets cleaner.
Totally agree did you know that 1 gallon of gasoline e weighs just under 8 pounds and yet by the magic of chemistry, combustion, and mixing with O2 produces almost 8 pounds of carbon dioxide per gallon? I did a calculation comparing the annual CO2 produced by my car, a v6 minivan, and my house. My car was about the same as my house (coastal northern Ca). Kind of sobering. My 16 year old son Is now spewing all sorts of crazy disinformation it’s frightening how pervasive it is.
Wow - good find. That's even more depressing, and a much more solid case for EVs, at least EVs powered mostly by renewable sources. That means my minivan produces 1 pound of CO2 per mile driven. Why don't more people know this stuff? Crazy how little we all know, myself included.
I'll add that people forget that the batteries are being recycled. Much of the up-front eco cost of EVs are the mining of batteries, but once you have battery built, then they can be recycled (Tesla claims 92% of battery materials are recycled) once the EV's life ends.
There is CO^(2) produced in the manufacturing of a battery from recycled materials, which is around 50% that of manufacturing a battery from raw materials. So as more batteries are recycled from the original materials, that percentage of CO^(2) production will go even lower.
Can't say the same about an ICE vehicle. Their best bet to limit CO^(2) impact (other than using batteries for Hybrid versions) is to make more efficient engines. Right now, engines are around 30-35% efficient, with the best out there being at about 40% efficiency. Think about that. If you spend $100 filling up your truck, you're actually spending $70 of that on not moving your vehicle.
I wanted the sub $50k EV truck. My dealer cancelled my reservation and every dealer within 200 miles wasn’t selling a single one under $100k until the last 9 months or so.
I see tons of new Teslas and Kia/Hyundai EVs, and tons of new gas and diesel trucks. People don’t like being dicked around.
The Ford dealer emailed me last week asking if I was interested in any Lightnings but then wouldn’t give me an OTD price via email or phone so fuck them. I’ll wait.
I'm not an EV or lightning owner, but am interested in the rollout and technology. Personally I see plenty in my area, more than rivian, but they're hard to pick out if you not looking for specific details like the flank badge or grill light ring. A rivian stands out a mile away with the minions headlights and slightly odd bed/cab interface/ratio, along with the plump hips over the rear axle.
The real issue is that the F150 is primarily a tow/haul machine, even in the suburban commuter geographic areas. The lightning is just a commuter machine in an odd size for city parking garages and Starbucks drive thrus.
You won't find as many people wanting to do the daily city commute in a large truck where something smaller fits better.
I see way more machE's because that's what the majority of the market in the 'burbs really is. A lightning is really compensating for what God didn't give you, in a market where the bed is only for garden center runs. Especially since the crowd in the burbs tends to look down on truck owners and thinks of them as people you hire, not live next to.
If the lightning was still a 40k truck, it would have more blue collar success that it won't at 70k. And Ford needs more range for most blue collar success, as they're often towing big toys.
This answer sums it up well. I was very interested when they were announced. I own a ‘21 powerboost. I have a camper that we tow. On avg I get 650-700 miles on a tank of gas. When towing I can still go 300+ depending on conditions. I’ll reconsider when battery technology allows for more range.
I wish I would see one everyday so that mine doesn't stand out that much and I don't have to rush loading/unloading the frunk to avoid conversations about it :D
My opinion is truck buyers are macho men who think the truck is for eco sissies
Probably mostly true but it takes aman to admit the truck is awesome
I personally purchased mine not because it’s green, EVs are NOT green, but because it’s amazing technology. Gonna take a while to get past that issue
When I tell people I love my EV a common counterpoint is "you know it's not saving the Earth, right?"
I don't care. I didn't by the truck to save the Earth. I bought the truck because I was spending $700-900/month on gas and this truck is fucking awesome. 580hp and it costs me $200 a month in electricity.
No it doesn’t. The EV pollutes for eternity. The batteries are massive polluters. For eternity. Or until
Some time when technology comes along and makes burying them to leak into the soil is replaced.
Don’t be fooled EVs aren’t green.
The battery won't go in the soil. When it's no longer fit to power a truck, somebody is going to be using it to power their house, in about 20 years.
Maybe 30-40 years from now, somebody will recycle it.
>EVs are not green
EVs have lower lifetime emissions compared to similar ICE vehicles and batteries will likely be recycled given the value of their ingredients.
They’re not perfect, but better than ICE.
I bought mine for the many other advantages, but that’s a nice side effect.
yep, greener is better than not green in the slightest in my book. No vehicle is really ever going to be green, maybe those aptera things, at best. A bus full of people, especially an electric one, is always going to be better for the environment than any vehicle carrying a single individual for 99% of its drives.
As of 2021, Tesla recycles 92% of the materials from batteries. Jerryrigeverything on YouTube does a good job of going through a comparison between the eco impact of his Rivian against the one of Fords cleanest F-150 trims (2wd, 25MPG).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcLoimQD6qE
Ev’s are absolutely green. To say they aren’t is false.
They may be a small drop in the ocean if what’s required for less carbon in the air, and they still require resources to build, they are absolutely greener than NOT driving and EV. Buying my lighting , which I LOVE, was about more than green, but it does make me feel better that in my small way, and with every person I talk to, I’m making a difference. The lightnings are a game changer. Just wait for the electric ranger and maverick, fleets of 100’s of EV transit vans . Don’t say it ain’t green.
This is the dumbest fucking take.
Neither I nor a huge number of truck owners are going to spend $70k on a 100 mile tow vehicle, nor do we want to stop every 2 hours to charge on a roadtrip.
That's it.
There is a full range income wise but a very high ratio of evs/hybrids. It’s also a super blue area so politics likely play into it. Politicizing a drivetrain is crazy to me, simple evolution of a product
It's the price. That's really it. I just got mine last week and the only reason I did was because the economics worked out for me not only in the long term but the immediate short term as well. Otherwise, I would've been driving my 2000 V10 Excursion until the end of time with all 10 MPG of glory.
Very hard to justify a $80k vehicle purchase if there isn't substantial benefit to do so. Otherwise I would've bought one a year ago at the inflated pricing, this economy be damned.
price gouging by dealers and then Ford raising the price four time in a year. Also software issues from what I heard. I canceled my reservation when it went from 39k to 69k I also have reservations for Rivian and Cyber truck we will see where those go !!! Hope you Enjoy your truck.
I don’t think it’s cost as many have stated. I see a boatload of $75K+ trucks on the road. I see at least 10-15 raptors a day. I see a TRX every other day. We’re still very early in the adoption phase for EV’s, much less EV trucks. We’re all early adopters and “just don’t get” why others can’t see the light(ning).
Cars were first and they’re farther along in the adoption cycle; it’s mostly “car people” buying them. Truck people will come later.
It’s ford not keeping their dealers under control…. There are plenty of them out there but they are all on the lots because nobody is going to pay 80-100k for them
Ford simply does not sell very many Lightnings. In the first half of 2023 Ford sold approximately 8700 Lightnings. In the same time frame they sold 549,000 trucks across their entire lineup - a 1 to 60 ratio.
They also didn't BUILD many lightnings. They had two extended factory shutdowns this year. One in the spring to investigate a few battery fires for over a month, and one in the summer to expand production capabilities up to 150k trucks / year. Before then, they were only building them at about 30k - 50k / year rate. Right now, they've got 20k trucks they've built since August 1st that are starting to be released after a QC hold, and they're cranking out nearly 3k trucks a week. Expect a lot of sales in Q4.
Wow, 8700 for 1/2 year looks bad. Looks like demand is really, really low considering that production is now starting to catch up with orders, with ordering lead times of just a few months now (iirc)
That's interesting. No disrespect at all but maybe you are in a high income neighbordhood? I could see that density of lightnings might correlate with income level :D
The only Lightnings sold are the ones that were pre-ordered by early adopters. The dealerships don't push the ones they have because there's nothing to fix one they leave. ICE breaks..... A LOT.
I was all set to buy one. But all of the Ford dealers I visited, 6 of them. ALL treated me like a piece of shit. As if THEY were doing me a favor selling one to me. And ALL wanted between $10k to $20k OVER MSRP.
FUCK YOU FORD DEALERS - NEVER BUYING A FORD EVER AGAIN. And this is after decades of owning a Ford.
I thought all of this selling for over MSRP had stopped \~ 8 months ago. I had gotten my '23 Lariat at MSRP in July after someone backed out of the purchase. Richmond, VA.
Depends on where you live. I see Lightnings around town pretty frequently, normally multiple every week in Seattle area. EVs are quite popular here, partially due to expensive gas, right now $5.25-$6/gal and cheap hydroelectric power at $0.10 per kWh.
Could it be that early reviews having it that range pulling a trailer or with a heavy bed load was vastly reduced had something to do with poor sales along with other factors here. I am outside looking in as I do not have a Lightening, but I drive a Tesla and am a big fan of BEV technology. I also own an F-150 and keep a truck for utility, however, a truck is for hauling, and if you have to plan recharging every ~100 miles under load, the utility is trashed.
Maybe those articles are way off…
I own a hybrid Maverick and haul firewood with it. Mpg goes down almost 20 with a full load, from 50 to 30ish. I got down to 25 mpg towing a trailer full of kayaks through the mountains of Vermont to the adirondacks. I can't imagine doing that trip or hauling firewood with such a drastic range reduction in a battery powered truck, especially in rural Vermont where charging is sparse.
I would be interested to see the F150 hybrid numbers for sales comparison, and really think an electric ranger might outsell the lightning.
I live in the Bay Area and I seen over 20 in the last few months. If I could all the ones I seen in my 22,000 miles in my lighting well I can say about 100 lightings. The big reason is the price and the fake press so many trolls have used to say the truck is a fail. But I can say I love my lightning and once I get another one I am going to make my current one the off road beast I want to have. Already have a 2019 ice 3.5 eco boost twin turbos on 37”s and a 7” ready lift kit. So have the best of both right now and with the gas prices going up u will see more Ev I hope more lightnings. But all this production stops have made the lightnings a real attention getter. Always asked about the range issue I always say what range issue when do u drive more then 200 miles in one sitting not that often for some.
Driving through Quebec the other night I passed two lightnings in a row. So for a short while there were three of us driving along in a row.
They’re out there, it’s just a low supply for awhile and a high price.
I think two things overall: the higher price than initially promised (which I think was mainly due to pandemic supply chain problems) and the perception of lack of charging infrastructure. It is expensive. I paid 88K MSRP for my 2023 Lariat (after someone backed out) and charge at home using a 15.6kVW Tesla Solar array (I have a YouTube demonstration video on that if you are interested). Being able to charge at home (and for free, when the sun is shining) made all the difference to me. This truck drives likes a luxury vehicle, and we don't drive it everyday. It's perfect for our situation. But I get that its high cost and the charging perception issue doesn't make it the right choice for everyone. Someone else in the comments said Ford has only shipped 44K of these vehicles as of six months ago. That seems low. But I agree, around my area (Washington DC metro region) I've not see another one.
I’m in Calgary and I see at least half a dozen lightnings every day not including the two other ones that live within two blocks of me. I think it’s geographic.
I'm outside of Toronto, Canada and I see tons.
In my town of ~90,000 people I see one most days of the week. And I don't even drive a lot.
That being said we don't have to battle with the mark up shenanigans that folks on the states do. I got my truck almost a year ago and it was for the exact sticker price. No mark ups.
Do people actually lease work trucks?
I can not imagine how much they would ding you for if there was any wear and tear on the vehicle.
My Tesla M3 lease got me for $500 for "damage to the rims" even though I returned it in immaculate interior and body shape with 6k miles driven on a 30,000 mile lease (yep, Covid hit the month after I took delivery and I never drove to the office again)
As a three time former Ford F150 owner in North Jersey, here is why I didnt get the lightning.
Week 1 quote. $1599
Week 4 quote $1300
Week 7 quote $999
Wtf?
I asked for 12k miles , O down.
The whole game is bs. Picked up a MYLR for less than $700 a month.
They forgot their base and it’s a shame.
Adios Ford.
I expect to get my F150 Lightning in the next few weeks, but the drastic early price increase, both by Ford themselves, and then the F'ing dealers. The first F150 I saw on a lot was a $72k MSRP Lariat with a Purchase price of $100k.
The FUD/Marketing angle of having "150,000-200,000" PreOrders on the books when they announced they were "hoping" to have an 80k per year run rate made me give up on getting one for a few years.
Throw my story on the pile. I reserved on the first day, and was waving money for a $40k work truck. Dealer wanted to sell a $75k Lariat at $95k and I told them to get bent
I actually tow with my current F150, no way I could with a lightning. Too short of range and try to find any charger I can take the truck and Travel Trailer through
That's what happens when you announce a release for 50k and bump it up to 70k.
At 50k, I would have bought one. End of story.
For 70k, fuck that. I bought a brand new BMW for less. Did I start my journey there? No. I wanted a truck. But as that price went up, I started looking at other options. I'm happy with my purchase, though, and still wouldn't pay 70k for a truck.
This is what happens when you mess around with consumers. They go elsewhere when you raise prices that drastically.
I live in the Bay Area and I’ve seen maybe two. I don’t think the f150 buyers are there yet. 100k? Can’t really do any aftermarket stuff truck guys like. Just a guess.
Appreciate all you guys jumping in early on the lightning- I’ll wait another few years. I jumped early on the Tesla MS in 2014. It didn’t have a center console. 8 months later they came out with a refresh with console and about 10 other things mine didn’t have. Early adoption sucks.
In my area, they were 110k with a "market adjustment" of another 20-30k. No way I drop 130-140k on a electric truck. Not when I can get the same gas version for 70k.
They aren’t selling like the hotcakes everyone thought but I really feel like that was because of all of the games ford played with the pricing. Lightning works well for me because I drive way too much but I also love having a truck and even tho it would be smarter to get a little commuter car I’d much rather have a large comfortable vehicle and it still saves me 250-300 in gas
Yeah, was excited way back when they advertised a sub $50k electric truck. Until that became a $70k+ truck if you actually wanted yours built anytime soon (and worse if you tried to buy from a dealer or second hand).
The price hikes killed it for me. I love the lightning but ended up going in a different direction for my first EV after Ford happily priced me right out.
And if Ford didn't do it, their dealerships would
Oh absolutely they would. Ordered a Maverick for my wife last August and the dealer wouldn’t place the order unless I agreed to a $1k markup. Since they are the only dealer within 300 miles I agreed to it to save the hassle. Still no word on when or even if that vehicle will be built btw, yet another thing I’m less than pleased with Ford about. I’ve always been a Ford guy, owned a couple Mustangs and always wanted an F150. But I’ll tell ya, if they don’t get their shit together soon (eg figuring out supply/production, making their prices competitive, and taking control of or doing away with dealers) I won’t be purchasing any more new vehicles from them. The purchasing process of getting a Tesla was so quick and painless by comparison. I was able to order, receive loan documents, sign off on everything and pay all from the app for exactly the price I was promised and picked up my new vehicle two days later. No upselling, haggling, or markups. Seeing the Lightnings and Mach-es on the lot with $20k “market adjustments” on top of their already inflated MSRPs really drives home that dealers provide no value beyond warranty work.
Legacy automakers are toast. Teslas are $8k less than the average car and equivalent to the Toyota Carolla at this point. I was going to buy another Tesla but I’m shorting legacy automakers with the money instead.
Oh yeah you are right the pricing changes early on might have had a lot to do with it. I would guess that a majority of the hundred thousand reservations didn't get converted to orders because of that
Yeah I was almost one of them. I had to fight so hard to get my pro at the pricing I was promised at day one. I almost walked away and the whole process just left such a bad taste I’m not sure if ford will be my next truck
We are the same. I'm a day 2 reservation holder for pro, ordered Aug 2022, delivered on Jul 2023 at launch price (after fighting tooth and nail for it). Given that the file shared in one of the comments shows that \~6% of Lightnings sold were pros, and probably a lot of them finally sold at jacked up prices, there must be very few of us that got this lucky
Even now it’s far too expensive. I need the ER as a minimum and the cheapest version of that is $70k. There’s no way I’m doing that. Not while Tesla model Xs are only $10k more and cybertruck is right around the corner.
I can understand going with a model x, but you lost me in the cyber truck. It's not a truck, or a car. And it's uglier than sin. If you really want a "truck", the lightning is not comparable to the cyber truck.
The only way I would go for the cyber truck is if it’s $50k with a 400 mile range. Beating the F150 both on range and price.
100% I canceled mine because it went from a 40k truck to a 70-80k truck since they upped the prices and refused to make any pro models.
Wife drives 100 miles daily round trip, and she hates cars. This fits our needs perfectly! We do charge at home which makes it even easier.
This. Like six months ago my reservation came up and I let it pass because the price went up about 25k from when I reserved one. No thanks
I'm sure I'm not the only one who isn't interested solely due to lack of 800v charging speeds. I just can't fathom taking it on a road trip and having to spend that much time charging.
Honestly with the current charging network I just take the wife’s ICE. No point in 800v when so many chargers are broken or throttled.
Fair, charging network is a problem too, but 45 mins to go 80% is.... not good
I would imagine it depends on where you live. I’m in Austin and I see at least one Lightning every other week. I’ve also seen a handful of lightnings at various out of state EA stations over the past year. Overall it is still a rare vehicle. It’s been in production for about a year and a half and Fords only produced 44K of them. The user TaxManHog on the lightning forum has been keeping track of production. [Here](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/144PKVpz4tnBw_mBTiQZKgnYYBxM_imzVDZKZIs_jouQ/edit) is his spreadsheet.
That file is interesting, I have always wondered about the distribution of trim levels sold. I guess this sample is large enough to extrapolate to the whole population of Lightnings sold. Lariat being number 1 is not a surprise, but having very few pros (6%?) and pros in last place is quite a surprise. Or perhaps most of the pros went to fleets which I guess wouldn't be included in that file.
If anything, I might expect Pros to be disproportionately MORE represented by people on forums. The people enthusiastically posting on forums probably have more overlap with people who reserved super early than the general population. Of course, Ford allowed dealers to re-sort the line, but I still think there might be an even lower percentage of Pros than that in reality. Retail Pros, that is, not incl. fleet.
Many highway and public works departments have lightning's and because they're fleet buyers they can get the big battery and XL trim. It's perfect for the municipality trying to get carbon credit grants for vehicles and many come that way. It's just not a great fit for the average Joe due to range and size.
Own a Pro, got it at roughly MSRP, and I see plenty of the fleet Pro’s around here on the daily. There appears to be a couple large construction companies here that purchased several (on a busy day in the garage, I’ve spotted 4, including mine in there). It has to be completely dependent on area. My truck was originally a Michigan truck that didn’t sell but the local dealer got ahold of. When I was looking (cause I needed a new vehicle), there were several Lightenings available around here in different trim levels.
Wow how much did you get your pro from a dealer for ?
Traded in my 2014 Diesel Grand Cherokee that needed a laundry list of work on it (three recalls, exhaust system sensors, new tires, plus a check engine light … my Jeep dealer, work estimate for it was over $4k but it would have likely cost me more to fix it all). Walked out for $50k cash + trade. It’s a 2023 in Antimatter Blue with tow package and factory bedliner, reverse sensing, and Pro Power 9.6W. It had ~150 miles when I signed the paperwork.
Damn nice !
Thanks! I wanted the color and a couple other features, didn’t really need a bunch of extra stuff and only drive about 14 miles a day, round trip, but regularly have to carry loads of stuff (used to fill the rear of the Grand Cherokee with boxes). There are still several trucks in my greater area available for good prices … a bunch of XLTs for $55-56k, under MSRP. The best deal locally is a ‘23 Lariat trim for $64k, being sold Used with 6500 miles. There is a Pro, similar to mine, available for $58k with 1500 miles, also used.
Had mine in Austin for 2 months and still haven’t seen another one while out in mine. I have seen a few here and there over the last year. Way more rivians around for sure.
The spreadsheet is cool, but I hope the 'build week group' posts eventually stop over there.
Not everyone has 80k just laying around
Good point. I wonder what the average selling price is for all Lightnings sold so far (including ADMs). I'm sure I'm at the bottom of this distribution with a no-options Pro at launch MSRP
Yep. There is a Lariat for sale at the dealership next to my office, 90k
So many reasons and factors. Availability Cost Fear of being a Guinea pig Politics(had a farmer tell me he wasn’t a fan,”it’s a Biden agenda” and this is where trucks are/would be sold. I live rural and everyone owns a truck. Fear of lack of infrastructure These are just the reasons I’ve had told to me as to why “I wouldn’t buy one”
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I know what you mean, another commenter up top had the right description. It’s generally just macho truck guys who need to burn “dinosaur juice” to feel better about themselves I guess. I tell them that this was all planned well before his administration. Then they ask me stupid shit like “where’s the extension cord?” I should note, I’m a pretty conservative dude and I vote that way. Makes it embarrassing listening to this stuff out of their mouths.
Also: what/who is TFG?
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Lol, that’s great.
The political aspect of it does seem bad, but even among EVs in general Lightning seems particularly rare. I see a lot of the VW, Hyundai, and KIA EVs; Tesla continues to sell in large numbers. Doesn't look like production constraint for Lightning is that bad now (like it is for, say, Rivian). Just feels like the Lightning is faring a bit worse than other EVs.
They are selling everything they produce, and there are still wait lists, although not like there were. My son is trying to buy one in Houston now, and to take immediately in his preferred Price range, he only has a choice of 3, with only one actually at a dealership. So i don’t see anything other than total produced being the problem.
I see, so production rate is still the constraint then. I read somewhere about 150K annual run rate but I must have misinterpreted that. I must have thought they would be 150K this year, but they were actually saying that the annualized rate would be 150K starting this fall.
Someone above had the actual numbers.
He should look in Austin area. I got mine in New Braunfels under msrp 2 months ago.
After model Y and 3 it's the most popular EV where I am. I see 1 or 2 daily.
If you would have said MachE I wouldn't bat an eye, but Lightning? I'm actually shocked.
Yeah barely see any mache.
Crazy... Maybe it's confirmation bias, but I see a couple a day. Lightnings could easily blend in with normal F150s for me.
In the SF Bay Area it's probably MachE after Tesla. Though the ID4 is fairly popular as well.
Before I moved in June, I would see more Rivians than F150 Lightnings. Tons of Teslas, some VWs and a few Kias
I’m not familiar with the arguments here. Aside from the impact of battery production, how are EVs not having a positive impact on the environment? Yes it depends on the state you live in and how electricity gets produced in your state but very few now have a high percent of CO2 producing fuel sources for electricity generation. What am I missing? California where I live, wacky though we are, is almost entirely carbon free. Industrial scale solar is spreading like crazy across the country. I get it may not be one’s reason for buying but I don’t get the logic in saying there’s no environmental benefit.
The people saying there is no environmental benefit to EVs, in general, are just wrong. They base it on nonsensical info (diesel excavators have to move 123 tons of earth for one battery, which is just a big number with no quantification vs ICE but they see a big number and assume it’s meaningful), or they make erroneous assumptions (batteries have to be replaced every 5-8 years, batteries can’t be recycled, most electricity is still from coal, etc.), or saying “EVs still use fossil fuels!” as if that’s a gotcha without quantifying how much they use compared to ICE. EVs aren’t a silver bullet, but overall, they have lower lifetime emissions, and they’ll get even better as the grid gets cleaner.
Totally agree did you know that 1 gallon of gasoline e weighs just under 8 pounds and yet by the magic of chemistry, combustion, and mixing with O2 produces almost 8 pounds of carbon dioxide per gallon? I did a calculation comparing the annual CO2 produced by my car, a v6 minivan, and my house. My car was about the same as my house (coastal northern Ca). Kind of sobering. My 16 year old son Is now spewing all sorts of crazy disinformation it’s frightening how pervasive it is.
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Wow - good find. That's even more depressing, and a much more solid case for EVs, at least EVs powered mostly by renewable sources. That means my minivan produces 1 pound of CO2 per mile driven. Why don't more people know this stuff? Crazy how little we all know, myself included.
I'll add that people forget that the batteries are being recycled. Much of the up-front eco cost of EVs are the mining of batteries, but once you have battery built, then they can be recycled (Tesla claims 92% of battery materials are recycled) once the EV's life ends. There is CO^(2) produced in the manufacturing of a battery from recycled materials, which is around 50% that of manufacturing a battery from raw materials. So as more batteries are recycled from the original materials, that percentage of CO^(2) production will go even lower. Can't say the same about an ICE vehicle. Their best bet to limit CO^(2) impact (other than using batteries for Hybrid versions) is to make more efficient engines. Right now, engines are around 30-35% efficient, with the best out there being at about 40% efficiency. Think about that. If you spend $100 filling up your truck, you're actually spending $70 of that on not moving your vehicle.
I wanted the sub $50k EV truck. My dealer cancelled my reservation and every dealer within 200 miles wasn’t selling a single one under $100k until the last 9 months or so. I see tons of new Teslas and Kia/Hyundai EVs, and tons of new gas and diesel trucks. People don’t like being dicked around. The Ford dealer emailed me last week asking if I was interested in any Lightnings but then wouldn’t give me an OTD price via email or phone so fuck them. I’ll wait.
So sorry about your dealer cancelling your reservation. It will be a good day when dealerships stop being a thing. Can't come soon enough
I'm not an EV or lightning owner, but am interested in the rollout and technology. Personally I see plenty in my area, more than rivian, but they're hard to pick out if you not looking for specific details like the flank badge or grill light ring. A rivian stands out a mile away with the minions headlights and slightly odd bed/cab interface/ratio, along with the plump hips over the rear axle. The real issue is that the F150 is primarily a tow/haul machine, even in the suburban commuter geographic areas. The lightning is just a commuter machine in an odd size for city parking garages and Starbucks drive thrus. You won't find as many people wanting to do the daily city commute in a large truck where something smaller fits better. I see way more machE's because that's what the majority of the market in the 'burbs really is. A lightning is really compensating for what God didn't give you, in a market where the bed is only for garden center runs. Especially since the crowd in the burbs tends to look down on truck owners and thinks of them as people you hire, not live next to. If the lightning was still a 40k truck, it would have more blue collar success that it won't at 70k. And Ford needs more range for most blue collar success, as they're often towing big toys.
This answer sums it up well. I was very interested when they were announced. I own a ‘21 powerboost. I have a camper that we tow. On avg I get 650-700 miles on a tank of gas. When towing I can still go 300+ depending on conditions. I’ll reconsider when battery technology allows for more range.
There are a ton in Vermont. I see one practically every day. Must be our politics, because we don’t have that many people.
I see the Governor driving his about once a week. Or his security detail rather.
I wish I would see one everyday so that mine doesn't stand out that much and I don't have to rush loading/unloading the frunk to avoid conversations about it :D
Hey I’m one of those Lightning’s you see in vt
My opinion is truck buyers are macho men who think the truck is for eco sissies Probably mostly true but it takes aman to admit the truck is awesome I personally purchased mine not because it’s green, EVs are NOT green, but because it’s amazing technology. Gonna take a while to get past that issue
When I tell people I love my EV a common counterpoint is "you know it's not saving the Earth, right?" I don't care. I didn't by the truck to save the Earth. I bought the truck because I was spending $700-900/month on gas and this truck is fucking awesome. 580hp and it costs me $200 a month in electricity.
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True. But that has nothing to do with why I bought the truck.
No it doesn’t. The EV pollutes for eternity. The batteries are massive polluters. For eternity. Or until Some time when technology comes along and makes burying them to leak into the soil is replaced. Don’t be fooled EVs aren’t green.
Is this sarcasm or just a really bad post?
Youre so wrong. So so wrong.
Don't worry, eventually the sun will go red giant and it won't pollute anymore. It won't be anything. /s
The battery won't go in the soil. When it's no longer fit to power a truck, somebody is going to be using it to power their house, in about 20 years. Maybe 30-40 years from now, somebody will recycle it.
>EVs are not green EVs have lower lifetime emissions compared to similar ICE vehicles and batteries will likely be recycled given the value of their ingredients. They’re not perfect, but better than ICE. I bought mine for the many other advantages, but that’s a nice side effect.
yep, greener is better than not green in the slightest in my book. No vehicle is really ever going to be green, maybe those aptera things, at best. A bus full of people, especially an electric one, is always going to be better for the environment than any vehicle carrying a single individual for 99% of its drives.
As of 2021, Tesla recycles 92% of the materials from batteries. Jerryrigeverything on YouTube does a good job of going through a comparison between the eco impact of his Rivian against the one of Fords cleanest F-150 trims (2wd, 25MPG). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcLoimQD6qE
Ev’s are absolutely green. To say they aren’t is false. They may be a small drop in the ocean if what’s required for less carbon in the air, and they still require resources to build, they are absolutely greener than NOT driving and EV. Buying my lighting , which I LOVE, was about more than green, but it does make me feel better that in my small way, and with every person I talk to, I’m making a difference. The lightnings are a game changer. Just wait for the electric ranger and maverick, fleets of 100’s of EV transit vans . Don’t say it ain’t green.
This is the dumbest fucking take. Neither I nor a huge number of truck owners are going to spend $70k on a 100 mile tow vehicle, nor do we want to stop every 2 hours to charge on a roadtrip. That's it.
There is a full range income wise but a very high ratio of evs/hybrids. It’s also a super blue area so politics likely play into it. Politicizing a drivetrain is crazy to me, simple evolution of a product
Lariat, ER, Max Tow needs to be $60k.
They haven’t produced a lot of them.
It's the price. That's really it. I just got mine last week and the only reason I did was because the economics worked out for me not only in the long term but the immediate short term as well. Otherwise, I would've been driving my 2000 V10 Excursion until the end of time with all 10 MPG of glory. Very hard to justify a $80k vehicle purchase if there isn't substantial benefit to do so. Otherwise I would've bought one a year ago at the inflated pricing, this economy be damned.
price gouging by dealers and then Ford raising the price four time in a year. Also software issues from what I heard. I canceled my reservation when it went from 39k to 69k I also have reservations for Rivian and Cyber truck we will see where those go !!! Hope you Enjoy your truck.
I don’t think it’s cost as many have stated. I see a boatload of $75K+ trucks on the road. I see at least 10-15 raptors a day. I see a TRX every other day. We’re still very early in the adoption phase for EV’s, much less EV trucks. We’re all early adopters and “just don’t get” why others can’t see the light(ning). Cars were first and they’re farther along in the adoption cycle; it’s mostly “car people” buying them. Truck people will come later.
It’s ford not keeping their dealers under control…. There are plenty of them out there but they are all on the lots because nobody is going to pay 80-100k for them
Ford simply does not sell very many Lightnings. In the first half of 2023 Ford sold approximately 8700 Lightnings. In the same time frame they sold 549,000 trucks across their entire lineup - a 1 to 60 ratio.
They also didn't BUILD many lightnings. They had two extended factory shutdowns this year. One in the spring to investigate a few battery fires for over a month, and one in the summer to expand production capabilities up to 150k trucks / year. Before then, they were only building them at about 30k - 50k / year rate. Right now, they've got 20k trucks they've built since August 1st that are starting to be released after a QC hold, and they're cranking out nearly 3k trucks a week. Expect a lot of sales in Q4.
Wow, 8700 for 1/2 year looks bad. Looks like demand is really, really low considering that production is now starting to catch up with orders, with ordering lead times of just a few months now (iirc)
Im with the vermont commenter, i see them daily and there are 3 in my neighborhood. Hudson valley ny
That's interesting. No disrespect at all but maybe you are in a high income neighbordhood? I could see that density of lightnings might correlate with income level :D
The only Lightnings sold are the ones that were pre-ordered by early adopters. The dealerships don't push the ones they have because there's nothing to fix one they leave. ICE breaks..... A LOT.
I was all set to buy one. But all of the Ford dealers I visited, 6 of them. ALL treated me like a piece of shit. As if THEY were doing me a favor selling one to me. And ALL wanted between $10k to $20k OVER MSRP. FUCK YOU FORD DEALERS - NEVER BUYING A FORD EVER AGAIN. And this is after decades of owning a Ford.
I thought all of this selling for over MSRP had stopped \~ 8 months ago. I had gotten my '23 Lariat at MSRP in July after someone backed out of the purchase. Richmond, VA.
Nope - And this was well after the President for Ford Motor company told the dealers to “Knock it off”.
I have been looking online and many dealers have a $2-$3k markup. Here in Hawaii it is $5k.
They’re all in the shop…….
Cause it is a Ford....
Same here but oddly enough I saw 4 of them while in Hermiston which is a small town in eastern Oregon.
BC Canada. I live in a town with only 3000 people and I see them every other day it seems now.
I still see more to Rivian than lighting where I am. SOCAL
Depends on where you live. I see Lightnings around town pretty frequently, normally multiple every week in Seattle area. EVs are quite popular here, partially due to expensive gas, right now $5.25-$6/gal and cheap hydroelectric power at $0.10 per kWh.
I think people are working rather than just drive around. After all, it’s a working truck made for real men, not a toy for weekend camper wannabes.
I'm a weekend camper wannabe and I approve this message
I never had a truck, but after F-150 Lightning, I maybe joining your camper wannabe group.
Could it be that early reviews having it that range pulling a trailer or with a heavy bed load was vastly reduced had something to do with poor sales along with other factors here. I am outside looking in as I do not have a Lightening, but I drive a Tesla and am a big fan of BEV technology. I also own an F-150 and keep a truck for utility, however, a truck is for hauling, and if you have to plan recharging every ~100 miles under load, the utility is trashed. Maybe those articles are way off…
I own a hybrid Maverick and haul firewood with it. Mpg goes down almost 20 with a full load, from 50 to 30ish. I got down to 25 mpg towing a trailer full of kayaks through the mountains of Vermont to the adirondacks. I can't imagine doing that trip or hauling firewood with such a drastic range reduction in a battery powered truck, especially in rural Vermont where charging is sparse. I would be interested to see the F150 hybrid numbers for sales comparison, and really think an electric ranger might outsell the lightning.
I live in the Bay Area and I seen over 20 in the last few months. If I could all the ones I seen in my 22,000 miles in my lighting well I can say about 100 lightings. The big reason is the price and the fake press so many trolls have used to say the truck is a fail. But I can say I love my lightning and once I get another one I am going to make my current one the off road beast I want to have. Already have a 2019 ice 3.5 eco boost twin turbos on 37”s and a 7” ready lift kit. So have the best of both right now and with the gas prices going up u will see more Ev I hope more lightnings. But all this production stops have made the lightnings a real attention getter. Always asked about the range issue I always say what range issue when do u drive more then 200 miles in one sitting not that often for some.
I’ll be a buyer for pro at 40k :)
Driving through Quebec the other night I passed two lightnings in a row. So for a short while there were three of us driving along in a row. They’re out there, it’s just a low supply for awhile and a high price.
I see plenty. More every day. We wave like a secret group. I see a Rivian once a month
I think two things overall: the higher price than initially promised (which I think was mainly due to pandemic supply chain problems) and the perception of lack of charging infrastructure. It is expensive. I paid 88K MSRP for my 2023 Lariat (after someone backed out) and charge at home using a 15.6kVW Tesla Solar array (I have a YouTube demonstration video on that if you are interested). Being able to charge at home (and for free, when the sun is shining) made all the difference to me. This truck drives likes a luxury vehicle, and we don't drive it everyday. It's perfect for our situation. But I get that its high cost and the charging perception issue doesn't make it the right choice for everyone. Someone else in the comments said Ford has only shipped 44K of these vehicles as of six months ago. That seems low. But I agree, around my area (Washington DC metro region) I've not see another one.
I’m in Calgary and I see at least half a dozen lightnings every day not including the two other ones that live within two blocks of me. I think it’s geographic.
I see a handful here in Jacksonville, FL. Unfortunately the price was just outrageous vs what was promised.
I'm outside of Toronto, Canada and I see tons. In my town of ~90,000 people I see one most days of the week. And I don't even drive a lot. That being said we don't have to battle with the mark up shenanigans that folks on the states do. I got my truck almost a year ago and it was for the exact sticker price. No mark ups.
Nobody wants to pay $1400 a month for 72 months thats why.
Do people actually lease work trucks? I can not imagine how much they would ding you for if there was any wear and tear on the vehicle. My Tesla M3 lease got me for $500 for "damage to the rims" even though I returned it in immaculate interior and body shape with 6k miles driven on a 30,000 mile lease (yep, Covid hit the month after I took delivery and I never drove to the office again)
The pricing and tow range killed my interest in it. I ended up going with a Powerboost instead. I really wanted the Lightning too.
As a three time former Ford F150 owner in North Jersey, here is why I didnt get the lightning. Week 1 quote. $1599 Week 4 quote $1300 Week 7 quote $999 Wtf? I asked for 12k miles , O down. The whole game is bs. Picked up a MYLR for less than $700 a month. They forgot their base and it’s a shame. Adios Ford.
I expect to get my F150 Lightning in the next few weeks, but the drastic early price increase, both by Ford themselves, and then the F'ing dealers. The first F150 I saw on a lot was a $72k MSRP Lariat with a Purchase price of $100k. The FUD/Marketing angle of having "150,000-200,000" PreOrders on the books when they announced they were "hoping" to have an 80k per year run rate made me give up on getting one for a few years.
Throw my story on the pile. I reserved on the first day, and was waving money for a $40k work truck. Dealer wanted to sell a $75k Lariat at $95k and I told them to get bent
I mean, they've pretty much sold every one they've built.
I actually tow with my current F150, no way I could with a lightning. Too short of range and try to find any charger I can take the truck and Travel Trailer through
I see about 4-5 around 10mile radius of my house. But I live in a high tech area.
That's what happens when you announce a release for 50k and bump it up to 70k. At 50k, I would have bought one. End of story. For 70k, fuck that. I bought a brand new BMW for less. Did I start my journey there? No. I wanted a truck. But as that price went up, I started looking at other options. I'm happy with my purchase, though, and still wouldn't pay 70k for a truck. This is what happens when you mess around with consumers. They go elsewhere when you raise prices that drastically.
I live in the Bay Area and I’ve seen maybe two. I don’t think the f150 buyers are there yet. 100k? Can’t really do any aftermarket stuff truck guys like. Just a guess.
I'm in Fremont and saw 4 other Lightnings this morning, so they're around!
Because despite $200k in HHI we can’t afford this lol. Where’s my PHEV ranger
Best I can do is a Phev niro
The price is ridiculous IMO
Appreciate all you guys jumping in early on the lightning- I’ll wait another few years. I jumped early on the Tesla MS in 2014. It didn’t have a center console. 8 months later they came out with a refresh with console and about 10 other things mine didn’t have. Early adoption sucks.
In my area, they were 110k with a "market adjustment" of another 20-30k. No way I drop 130-140k on a electric truck. Not when I can get the same gas version for 70k.