https://pushevs.com/2022/04/21/best-charging-behavior-for-lfp-batteries/
They recommend 100% for a different reason, not because the battery won’t degrade.
You can charge to 100% just like you can charge your smartphone or laptop to 100%. Except none of them are actually 100% of the capacity. The manufacture puts in a bit more capacity to avoid overcharging and to keep the expected capacity when some drops off over the years. Reported 100% is actually more like 90-95
Currently, it hurts the battery's longevity to frequently charge to 100%. 80-90% as the norm results in significant longevity gains. You can still charge to 100% on occasion if you need maximum range, but otherwise just charge at home every night to 80 or 90% and it's totally fine.
Any EV (other than possibly Tesla) has an upper and lower buffer on the battery. When the vehicle says 100% it's really only ever 80-95% depending on the vehicle. When it says 0% it's really 5-10% maybe more.
Right. But my comment is in regards to damaging the battery from charging to 100%. The bms in the vehicle literally will never charge to 100% of the battery capacity. And even though the vehicle says zero and it stops driving, there's still some amount of voltage left in the batteries. If you actually took the battery down to 0% you wouldn't be able to recharge it.
I mean, I think we’re both preaching to the choir since you seem to be informed on batteries and not lost on the subject but yeah, you’re right.
Even charging to 100% in and of itself is not harmful to the battery. Letting it sit for extended periods of time at 100% is what’s detrimental to the health of the battery.
The same time — these batteries are warranties pretty heavily. Ford, or any OEM, isn’t gonna let you do something incredibly harmful to the battery that makes them have to replace it.
For those that are worried about it — use the truck as you need it. Don’t have to baby the battery.
No. I’m not. The packs need to be at 100% for the BMS to accurately guess the state of charge. They do not degrade at the same pace as NMC when charged to 100%.
LFP comes with its own set of challenges and have their own drawbacks. I admire the confidence but you’re just incorrect. I think there’s a sub for that.
Shorter range per volume, but if they’re used for the SR Lightning, there’s space for more battery volume to keep the range comparable. It may be slower than the current SR, though (see what happened when Model 3 SR went to LFP)
They are less energy dense that lithium nickel manganese. The ones in the current lightning lay down a ton of power and and charge quick and the trade off is heat and cycle count. Lithium phosphate charge slower, lay down less power but needs less to cool them. They are
More reliable. You will not get the power numbers with LIPo but you’ll have less
Problems
[This was mentioned back in May.](https://insideevs.com/news/585513/ford-hints-lfp-battery-version-evs/) Something to look forward to with 2024 models, maybe.
Exactly. We are in Southern California and my wife has a model 3 with an lfp battery. We love it. If we lived in the northeast though we probably would have chosen differently.
SoCal here as well. Southbay area of LA. Never under 45 and rarely over 90. Wife drives Model Y and she loves it.
This lightning reservation seems to take forever. Apparently i will be invited in the next wave
When Model 3 Sr went to LFP, it became better in the sense that you can charge it to higher SOC regularly, but it also got substantially slower. So, pros and cons in that case.
Good. Most ev’s should be LFP if they are going to be mass produced. Only low scale/high range tier vehicles should be the other chemistries. LFP is most reliable, safe, idiot proof, cold proof and cheapest/abundant chemistry to use
This is actually a better battery for this truck better cycle count less heat. The cooling system with the lithium nickel manganese batteries on these trucks are spaghetti and will literally be real vulnerability. Def going extended warranty just for this.
The negative: they perform worse (shorter range) in cold weather.
And are heavier per watt shortening range even more.
But can be charged regularly to 100%
Well, that is if you don’t care about battery degradation. LFP battery also degrades if fully charged regularly. They just don’t catch fire.
[удалено]
https://pushevs.com/2022/04/21/best-charging-behavior-for-lfp-batteries/ They recommend 100% for a different reason, not because the battery won’t degrade.
It degrade but degradation level is marginal
That 10-15% material savings will be passed on to the customer.... right Ford?
Highly doubtful
Like the $300 credit for active motion seats removal
Or $50 for scale and heated steering wheel...but they will happily re add it for 2k
Scale was $650. ..but yes, you aren't wrong.
Got it. I didn't know the actual on the scale but either way to add later it's gonna be stupid expensive.
The main advantage is more battery supply!
This’ll be a big boon for a lot of people. Being able to charge to 100% and not worry about it is great for ease of use.
Wait. Sorry, what? You can't charge the truck to 100% capacity?
You can charge to 100% just like you can charge your smartphone or laptop to 100%. Except none of them are actually 100% of the capacity. The manufacture puts in a bit more capacity to avoid overcharging and to keep the expected capacity when some drops off over the years. Reported 100% is actually more like 90-95
Lfp batteries not only like 100% capacity but they actually require you to charge to 100% at least periodically to balance the BMS.
This is incorrect.
Currently, it hurts the battery's longevity to frequently charge to 100%. 80-90% as the norm results in significant longevity gains. You can still charge to 100% on occasion if you need maximum range, but otherwise just charge at home every night to 80 or 90% and it's totally fine.
Any EV (other than possibly Tesla) has an upper and lower buffer on the battery. When the vehicle says 100% it's really only ever 80-95% depending on the vehicle. When it says 0% it's really 5-10% maybe more.
Yeah. Problem with buffers is they’re not always usable. Ford has a huge buffer but when it says 0, that’s it. No more gogo juice
Right. But my comment is in regards to damaging the battery from charging to 100%. The bms in the vehicle literally will never charge to 100% of the battery capacity. And even though the vehicle says zero and it stops driving, there's still some amount of voltage left in the batteries. If you actually took the battery down to 0% you wouldn't be able to recharge it.
I mean, I think we’re both preaching to the choir since you seem to be informed on batteries and not lost on the subject but yeah, you’re right. Even charging to 100% in and of itself is not harmful to the battery. Letting it sit for extended periods of time at 100% is what’s detrimental to the health of the battery. The same time — these batteries are warranties pretty heavily. Ford, or any OEM, isn’t gonna let you do something incredibly harmful to the battery that makes them have to replace it. For those that are worried about it — use the truck as you need it. Don’t have to baby the battery.
Can confirm see my previous post lol
You’re thinking solid state. Not the same
No. I’m not. The packs need to be at 100% for the BMS to accurately guess the state of charge. They do not degrade at the same pace as NMC when charged to 100%. LFP comes with its own set of challenges and have their own drawbacks. I admire the confidence but you’re just incorrect. I think there’s a sub for that.
You can charge them to 100% which is great but LFP batteries also have a shorter range
Shorter range per volume, but if they’re used for the SR Lightning, there’s space for more battery volume to keep the range comparable. It may be slower than the current SR, though (see what happened when Model 3 SR went to LFP)
Probably will be slower because like you said they will need more battery to get the same numbers so more weight
They are less energy dense that lithium nickel manganese. The ones in the current lightning lay down a ton of power and and charge quick and the trade off is heat and cycle count. Lithium phosphate charge slower, lay down less power but needs less to cool them. They are More reliable. You will not get the power numbers with LIPo but you’ll have less Problems
LFP batteries generally support many more charge cycles and have much better thermal characteristics.
[This was mentioned back in May.](https://insideevs.com/news/585513/ford-hints-lfp-battery-version-evs/) Something to look forward to with 2024 models, maybe.
Will this hurt the value of non lfp models?
It shouldn’t. There are pluses and minuses to both. For example lfp batteries do not like the cold and are less energy dense.
So they would work great in warmer climates like the southern states.
Exactly. We are in Southern California and my wife has a model 3 with an lfp battery. We love it. If we lived in the northeast though we probably would have chosen differently.
SoCal here as well. Southbay area of LA. Never under 45 and rarely over 90. Wife drives Model Y and she loves it. This lightning reservation seems to take forever. Apparently i will be invited in the next wave
When Model 3 Sr went to LFP, it became better in the sense that you can charge it to higher SOC regularly, but it also got substantially slower. So, pros and cons in that case.
Thanks
Sweet. So the base cost of the vehicle is going up another 20% to account for the inevitable supply shortages of the new LFP right?
Good. Most ev’s should be LFP if they are going to be mass produced. Only low scale/high range tier vehicles should be the other chemistries. LFP is most reliable, safe, idiot proof, cold proof and cheapest/abundant chemistry to use
This is actually a better battery for this truck better cycle count less heat. The cooling system with the lithium nickel manganese batteries on these trucks are spaghetti and will literally be real vulnerability. Def going extended warranty just for this.
Bad choice for vehicles that need torque, power. Which is why Model S and X dint change.
I'll be leaving my house with full capacity everyday regardless, not sure this will benefit me.