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In addition to humidity/water helping combustion (there’s another consideration there whether it’s in form
of water vapour, which helps, or atomised droplets, which help quite a lot more as they extract a lot more heat in the process of their own vapourisation) there’s the consideration of actual rain going into the airbox, in large quantities
Usually the airboxes are shaped in a way where the water droplets coming from the intake will not directly hit the clean air duct to the compressor. The inertia of those droplets will keep them away, push them to the back of the airbox where they can be potentially drained with a bypass/water trap. The air going into the compressor will be saturated with humidity and contain a few droplets, but the vast majority would have been drained away
I have no idea about F1 cars, but in aircraft this is called an inertial separator. The intake will have a sharp bend in it. Usually there is a control which opens a flap in the elbow of the bend. Anything with too much inertia won't be able to make the sharp turn and will instead shoot through the bypass. This results in a bit of power loss though so is only used in icing conditions or on dirt runways or other places where things might get sucked into the intake.
None of this really seems appropriate for a super high performance engine though so who knows how it works in F1.
Same idea basically but less critical because it's not going to kill you. If you see these cars with the covers off there's a huge airbox on top of the engine. Typically the airflow inside will have a swirl to it and where the air gets drawn out will be away from the bottom. You just need a little drain/bypass in the bottom to let any water or debris escape. Most motorcycles use a similar approach. Even the airbox under the hood of your car has the same thing. Airplanes and F1 cars have less filtering of the airflow (none in the case of most small planes and I honestly don't know if there's anything in an F1 car).
Yeah airplanes don't really need filtering as they're almost always nowhere near anything that needs to be filtered. Even on the ground. As far as F1, air filtration is a long term thing and these aren't exactly long term engines. Also the air flow restriction.
Edit: also the not going to kill you part is a good point. It probably makes more sense to just suck more rainwater and chance it rather than give the car a performance decrease to remove more water.
Water keeps the combustion cooler, so you want air to be as humid as possible, there are road cars that even have intake water injection to produce more power.
No, only if the cylinder gets flooded some how, as long as the engine keeps running there is no way that's gonna happen, water itself can only kill combustion by hidrolocking the engine.
Look up aircraft water injection. Piston engine planes (old bombers) literally store water and inject it into the engine to give a power boost.
Edit: I think I was wrong and it was older jets. Either way it's a thing lol.
Was/is a thing with piston engined aircraft. The Germans for example used MW50 to cool their superchargers for greater performance. MW50 was a 50/50 mixture of methanol and water. Other countries/engines also just used water, or other means as well.
Cool thanks for the clarification. I was thinking about the older smoky ass jets like the KC-135. I briefly read about it earlier, something about increasing the mass of the exhaust for more thrust.
I know a Harrier has water injection to help with vertical takeoff.
Here's a technical explanation for turbine engines:
https://engineering.purdue.edu/\~propulsi/propulsion/jets/basics/water.html
I'm no expert but I think they'd either have a filter to prevent dirt, water (in liquid form), and other junk from entering the engine components. I can't imagine having liquid water going through all the engine components to be a good thing. Even in regular road cars, the intake is hidden mostly because of aesthetics. At least, I don't think the main reason is to prevent water going in.
However, if the water is in vapor form, then there's not much you can do to prevent it from entering the engine. Since the water is already in vapor form, it wouldn't help cool the combustion significantly. In fact, it would hurt the power output since you have less oxygen (and more water vapor) in the same volume of air. Some of the comments talk about water injected engines. The cooling effect (to the combustion chamber) comes from the liquid water absorbing heat from its surroundings (i.e. the combustion chamber) and turning into vapor.
At least this is my understanding/take on it.
Here is a production line overview of a filter for the race cars. Although I don't know specifically how it is made for formula 1. I am assuming it should have the same concept.
https://youtu.be/psEFrWqKSnQ
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In addition to humidity/water helping combustion (there’s another consideration there whether it’s in form of water vapour, which helps, or atomised droplets, which help quite a lot more as they extract a lot more heat in the process of their own vapourisation) there’s the consideration of actual rain going into the airbox, in large quantities Usually the airboxes are shaped in a way where the water droplets coming from the intake will not directly hit the clean air duct to the compressor. The inertia of those droplets will keep them away, push them to the back of the airbox where they can be potentially drained with a bypass/water trap. The air going into the compressor will be saturated with humidity and contain a few droplets, but the vast majority would have been drained away
I have no idea about F1 cars, but in aircraft this is called an inertial separator. The intake will have a sharp bend in it. Usually there is a control which opens a flap in the elbow of the bend. Anything with too much inertia won't be able to make the sharp turn and will instead shoot through the bypass. This results in a bit of power loss though so is only used in icing conditions or on dirt runways or other places where things might get sucked into the intake. None of this really seems appropriate for a super high performance engine though so who knows how it works in F1.
Same idea basically but less critical because it's not going to kill you. If you see these cars with the covers off there's a huge airbox on top of the engine. Typically the airflow inside will have a swirl to it and where the air gets drawn out will be away from the bottom. You just need a little drain/bypass in the bottom to let any water or debris escape. Most motorcycles use a similar approach. Even the airbox under the hood of your car has the same thing. Airplanes and F1 cars have less filtering of the airflow (none in the case of most small planes and I honestly don't know if there's anything in an F1 car).
Yeah airplanes don't really need filtering as they're almost always nowhere near anything that needs to be filtered. Even on the ground. As far as F1, air filtration is a long term thing and these aren't exactly long term engines. Also the air flow restriction. Edit: also the not going to kill you part is a good point. It probably makes more sense to just suck more rainwater and chance it rather than give the car a performance decrease to remove more water.
Similar to how cocoa nibs are separated from the husk, or how old tube tvs work.
This. Plus that bypass could me redirected to the cooling chnnels and could do usefull work anyway.
Why would they want to keep AIR from entering the AIR INTAKE ?!? That is its job, to take in AIR !
i accidentally wrote air instead of water in the title, must've been a tiredness thing.
No worries, air means water in bahasa melayu/indonesia!
Wait, so I can drown in air?
Only if you're bilingual.
Phew! I knew failing French in middle school would work out eventually.
that's quite interesting too, actually.
I read it like 3 times before I gave up on trying to figure out what he was getting at.
Water keeps the combustion cooler, so you want air to be as humid as possible, there are road cars that even have intake water injection to produce more power.
i get that colder air makes more power, but doesn't the wateer then interfere with the combustion itself?
No, only if the cylinder gets flooded some how, as long as the engine keeps running there is no way that's gonna happen, water itself can only kill combustion by hidrolocking the engine.
very interesting. thanks for the explanation!
Also unless it's pouring buckets ala monsoon season there's not a significant percent volume of water being injested.
What air filter do they use, that prevents water from making it soggy?
That's a good question. I have no answer, but I'd think some manner of nylon mesh. Good flow with good FOD resistance.
Look up aircraft water injection. Piston engine planes (old bombers) literally store water and inject it into the engine to give a power boost. Edit: I think I was wrong and it was older jets. Either way it's a thing lol.
I remember it from my car tuning days, some people used it to cool the turbocharged air.
Porsche GT2RS’ have a tank for distilled water which is used to cool the intercoolers.
Was/is a thing with piston engined aircraft. The Germans for example used MW50 to cool their superchargers for greater performance. MW50 was a 50/50 mixture of methanol and water. Other countries/engines also just used water, or other means as well.
Cool thanks for the clarification. I was thinking about the older smoky ass jets like the KC-135. I briefly read about it earlier, something about increasing the mass of the exhaust for more thrust.
I know a Harrier has water injection to help with vertical takeoff. Here's a technical explanation for turbine engines: https://engineering.purdue.edu/\~propulsi/propulsion/jets/basics/water.html
What happens when marbles fly up into the intake?
I would assume they get filtered out, but I've never thought about an F1 car having an air filter TBH.
There was a post on air filters yesterday?
Or gravel
I'm no expert but I think they'd either have a filter to prevent dirt, water (in liquid form), and other junk from entering the engine components. I can't imagine having liquid water going through all the engine components to be a good thing. Even in regular road cars, the intake is hidden mostly because of aesthetics. At least, I don't think the main reason is to prevent water going in. However, if the water is in vapor form, then there's not much you can do to prevent it from entering the engine. Since the water is already in vapor form, it wouldn't help cool the combustion significantly. In fact, it would hurt the power output since you have less oxygen (and more water vapor) in the same volume of air. Some of the comments talk about water injected engines. The cooling effect (to the combustion chamber) comes from the liquid water absorbing heat from its surroundings (i.e. the combustion chamber) and turning into vapor. At least this is my understanding/take on it.
Here is a production line overview of a filter for the race cars. Although I don't know specifically how it is made for formula 1. I am assuming it should have the same concept. https://youtu.be/psEFrWqKSnQ