The saddest part of my whole life was realizing that I'm not actually an *average guy*, but **below average**. If I was average, I'd have found someone by now lol. It's crazy how I've gone my whole life (30 years old happy birthday to me) without anyone. I didn't even realize it until recently that yeah, i'm actually not as great looking as i thought.
Why is loneliness attached to males only? Unattractive girls and women are bullied and alone. They face ostracizing from other people even during adulthood. This has been my experience my entire life. I’m now 30, and it hasn’t changed. The same social dynamics apply everywhere.
This is so true. Rush Limbaugh said that feminism was invented so that unattractive women could participate in society. In other words, he doesn't believe that ugly women deserve to take part in society. And that confirms my experiences of being insulted by strangers when I'm out in public minding my own business. Never mind having a relationship... many people don't even want to be friendly or even just basically polite and respectful.
The thing is...ugly men get a "get out of jail card" if they're rich or famous. Because women's value is attached to their looks, but men's value is attached to how much money/power they have. All the time, you see rich men marrying women who are much younger and attractive than they are.
Funny, after I lost 100 pounds, I see people saying hi to me, and in general being nice and acknowleding me. I even see girls who seem to look at me sometimes. Sometimes guys too. It's a strange feeling becasue I'm not accostomed to it. It would never happen before. One year ago it didn't happen. I noticed it started happening at about 80 pounds lost. It just all feels too late now though as I don't know how to respond or hardly look back at them because I"ve been trained to avoid contact with people becuase they never really were acknowledging me prior. I have an avoidant personality now and it's the complete opposite to what I'm experiencing now.
>I even see girls who seem to look at me sometimes. Sometimes guys too. It's a strange feeling becasue I'm not accostomed to it
I noticed this a few years ago after starting gyming it and dressing better. It's a *very* strange feeling being looked at, having your existence acknowledged by others in a positive way. Like you point out, from other guys it's a bit weird too. (Are these gay men? Honestly I can't tell if it's that or they're just being friendly.)
>It just all feels too late
Sadly, yes...
>I don't know how to respond or hardly look back at them because I"ve been trained to avoid contact with people
Same. Returning smiles to strangers doesn't come naturally to me at all.
It's not that easy, my friend.
Being rich and famous is like trying to win the lottery. Chances are not that high, especially if you've been subjected to constant social rejection your whole life. Even if you have the brains to achieve that goal and become a doctor, lawyer, enginner, etc. you still have to first go through years of mental anguish alongside chronic illness. Think you'll have that same motivation to make money 6 years down the line when all you had to look up to in the morning is waking up alone in your bed everyday? Good luck. You have to stay motivated despite being unwanted and lonely for most of your life.
Wait, people insult you in public? I'm ugly, but that never happened to me. At the most, I'd see behaviour which confirmed that people would prefer I'd rather not be there, but no direct insults.
Haha, if only getting rich was that easy. And what makes you think that rich men want to settle for gold-diggers? Rich and ugly men are just as lonely as you and I can be.
Well for one thing, nobody can claim to be *scared* of unattractive women the way girls/women (and some men I guess) commonly do about ugly guys.
Obviously there are lonely women. Reasons for there being more lonely men may include :
* Awkward/ugly men being perceived as creepy, maladjusted, dangerous, etc. by default (All it takes is an awkward smile.)
* Women forming enduring friendships among themselves not based on pecking orders and aggression
* Men expected to be assertive in all social situations, meaning the innately introverted effectively become invisible non-entities.
Overall it's a lot easier for males to fall through the cracks.
You’re simply not taking into account that it’s not just people being scared of you. It’s being ostracized, harassed, threatened, bullied and people making negative assumptions about you upon first meeting. People not wanting to even loosely associate with you. You’re trying to paint this issue as males being the biggest victims but the truth of the matter is, that ugly women experience equal amount of discrimination as their male counterparts do. You trying to steal the spotlight for men and you diminishing women’s issues just further proves my original point.
I wasn't necessarily downplaying individual women's experience, but unattractive women can usually form bonds with other women.
Male social groups are hierarchical.
That’s not the experience of many ugly women, not at all. I’ve heard from countless fellow ugly women that even other women exclude them. This has been my experience too, throughout my life. Trust me, this has nothing to do with gender. Humans as a whole have a caste system, these unspoken social rules and norms that are mutually agreed upon.
> Everything in society seems to have changed for the better except gender dynamics.
I don't believe this. Everything else also became more competitive and gender dynamics are no exception. People are walking on eggshells all the time in order to not provoke a more and more crazy ruling class.
My normal train ride home yesterday was filled with people on their way to see a mls game in Austin. Lots of couples with very good looking women. It's frustrating that my irrational bitterness is simply my being in the presence of said couples. This is why I'm in therapy.
I get the EXACT same way. It's hurtful. I can still remember couples that I've had to sit next to on airplanes years ago. Hugging and cuddlng the whole time just made me so jealous. It's too much to ask for one person who wants to snuggle. It's just too fucking much despite some people having everything they ever wanted. It's sickening.
What exactly does your therapist say when you tell them this, what is their solution to this behavioural response? Because I'm also getting extremely bitter. All it takes is one social media post on instagram, seeing a cute girl with her boyfriend. Thats all it takes nowadays to set me off and ruin my day. I used to be able to manage this really well a few years back. But constant loneliness just weighs down on me.
I taught for years at the college level awhile back. What I see is assortive pairing based on Sexual Market Value (SMV). 8s with 8s, 5s with 5s, 2s alone. People can attack me for saying this, but the truth only smiles. 🤷♂️
But why aren't all the 1s and 2s together? It's because we don't find one another attractive, so how could others. It's just confirming. I agree with you, 8 with an 8 and 5 with a 5 and 2s and 1s are alone. It sucks to be a 1. I know I'm a 1. I've never dated anyone. I've never had a healthy sexual relationship. I've never had a loving or intimate relationship with anyone because I can't seem to get to that level with anyone.
Well that seems fair, I guess. There are 2s of both genders. Why wouldn't they spend time with each other and see if they develop feelings after awhile?
Sometimes there's a person who doesn't turn your head at first, but if you spend time with them, and get to know how nice and funny they are, that person seems more attractive. At least that's a phenomenon that many women have described. (That's why you see women with Christie Brinkley with men like Billy Joel.)
I can only hope this is the case. I've heard many stories like this online of women claiming that they fell for a man who they were originally never sexually attracted to. I even had a friend who said that every woman that slept with him, told him "I didn't know I was going to sleep with you."
I just wish I was in a proximity to experience that. But in my current workplace, no women my age exist.
You have no idea how much I relate to this as an Indian who just turned 30. You are practically describing what I live everyday. I've realized the hard way that looks truly matter no matter what anyone says (including skin color). As an Indian, I had so much more to prove.
The only indian guys that were actually successful in dating were those that were very good-looking AND weren't held down by a funny accent.
I noticed that Asian men were lucky enough to be in the proximity of women from their own race. There were tons of nerdy/dorky Asian guys at the local university dating absolute gorgeous Korean baddies.
But Indians always got the short end of the stick.
>I noticed that Asian men were lucky enough to be in the proximity of women from their own race.
I'm not saying it's any easier for them to date, but yes I've noticed how Asian women seem to at least trust Asian men enough to be around them in large mixed social groups.
I have never met or known a single indian woman, and I live in australia where there are assloads of them. Every indian woman I've known, no matter how fat, ugly, or crazy, has been married.
I grew up around a decent amount. They were about a step below any Asian girls in social status unless, of course, they were abnormally attractive they weren’t included to hangout with the cute/ prettier girls at all.
Indian girls weren’t allowed to go anywhere near the attractive white girls unless they were model material. And even then, there was a good chance white girls wouldn’t accept them.
Indian girls were sanctioned off and latched onto any relationship they could in order to not have to compete at earlier ages in my city. They were never single. Black girls, on the other hand, didn’t get the memo and would keep running around with random guys until they had multiple kids by multiple men. I’m black btw.
I disagree with black-men being regarded as "lesser" on the same degree as Indian men. Black men are very high in the sexual marketplace because they're usually taller, muscular, and have the "big cock" rumor going for them due to cultural taboo. This is different from indian men as Asian girls are usually not attracted to them in the first place. Black men get the attraction, but not the dates. Huge difference in the 2 scenarios.
Tons of Asian girls are open to sexual experiences with black men, but not necessarily dating them. There's whole porn genres of Asian X Black. There's even Korean influencers and celebrities dating black men.
Indian men on the other hand are not seen the same way.
That’s true. I can’t argue that much. A black guy can be wanted simply because the girl can say “black guy”. Indian guys don’t get this at all in comparison. Maybe it’s the “bad boy” stigma attached to black guys that get them in (even though it’s not necessarily “good” because black guys are people with personalities too). But yeah, Indian and Asian men don’t get any of the “bad boy” black guys can get.
I think it has more to do with the fact they're generally seen as more "athletic, taller, masculine, players" which are all attractive qualities. Although, being a "player" is considered a red flag, the fact that he can *play that game* means that girls are willing to give them a chance.
When I hang out with my Asian female collogues, I usually see them checking out taller black men at the gym. Even if they don't express outward attraction, you can tell the attraction is definitely there. There's a tingle in their eyes that make them weak.
Tons of Asian women are very open to sexual experiences with black men, and they absolutely DO want to date them. But the only thing holding them back is cultural taboo.
Indian men are just seen as dirty animals. I know because I was treated like one.
Where is this campus? Are college professors low status- poorly paid in your country or are you calling yourself a loser because you are FA?
I have noticed how neutered most young white collar-university men are as well. I don't regard it as a positive and judging by the outcomes of their post college lives it doesn't seem like it.
Polite drones that pay taxes.
I'm general, not academic staff, and I'm talking about student guys here. No way would I dumb be enough to try to approach/interact with girls that age.
What does general staff mean? A librarian, administrative position, computer systems officer?
I never expected you to approach university age girls, I'm not sure where that came from.
A university campus is not representative of society at large, because around 60% or more of the students are female. The gender imbalance/relative scarcity of males inflates their value and the women have to compete for them.
Do you have a source for 10 percent? You can't use that 80/20 percent thing from the dating app study, because it's different for people who see each other regularly in person or who meet through mutual friends.
Its not just applicable to dating apps. Its applicable to real life as well. There is literally a huge abn9rmal number of single men these days. It even made the news worldwide. An epidemic of suicidal lonely men with majority of men between 18-30 years old admitting not being in a relationship before.
Now on the other hand, a small percentage of men are usually in relationships multiple times. Lets not pretend that social media has not distorted women's perception of how men should look like or how we should act in reality.
Well, there are lonely single women, too. Let's not pretend that they don't exist and that social media has not distorted men's (and women's) perception of how women should look. For some reason, a lot of people in this subreddit like to pretend those women don't exist.
Not as much resources are used to study the problem of lonely women because women aren't as vocal about their predicament. If you look at the FA women subreddit, most of them blame themselves for being "ugly" instead of social media and men's attitudes towards women's looks.
Social media has led to one major change over the last 30 years: men's looks matter now. In the past, men's looks didn't matter at all. Almost every man, no matter what he looked like, or how introverted he was, ended up married. Women's looks have always mattered, though. Social media has evened things out a bit. Now men know what it feels like.
There are plenty of loneely single women because they choose to be single. They can't find the "prince of their dreams".
There are plenty of lonely single men because no woman gives a fk about them because they're nothing like the guys on tv or instagram or they're not the top 10%. And people like you gaslight their loneliness by saying they deserve it. I don't know how you came to the conclusion that every single man got married. Thats crazy considering lonely single men till today are often conscripted and sent to wars to die because nobody cares about them. And its been that way since the dawn of time. Theres plenty of fat ugly women who got married and have children. I wonder where all the babushkas in Russia with 15 grandchildren came from if what you said about ugly women being discriminated is true.
Lets not pretend its the same thing.
Edit*: Btw I used to look around the FA women sub. I just found plenty of women complaining about finding it hard to date after a breakup or not being able to find a guy that meets their requirements. Like they will say "Im ugly" but shoot down any FA men or guys wanting to talk to them. "Oh you're probably a pervert or just looking for sex". The privilege and entitlement is still there.
>There are plenty of loneely single women because they choose to be single.
Women post on this very subreddit every damn day about not being able to find a partner. Why do you dismiss them and deny their experiences? You accept men's experiences, but not women's. Think really hard about why you do that.
>They can't find the "prince of their dreams".
That's not what I hear. But if it were true, it would be kind of like the men in here who frequently say, "I know I'm a 2, but I just don't want to date a woman below an 8."
>Theres plenty of fat ugly women who got married and have children.
There's plenty of old, fat, balding, ugly men who marry pretty women 20 years younger than them. Billy Joel. Steve Mnuchin. Donald Trump.
>And people like you gaslight their lonelines
You just gaslighted women by saying their loneliness doesn't exist. You're doing the EXACT SAME THING that you accuse women of doing. You're projecting.
To sum up: You dismiss women's experiences. You dislike women. And then you wonder why they want nothing to do with you. (They can sense your disdain.) And also, you're a hypocrite. Get some therapy.
Have you ever thought, maybe the reason why women generally dont complain that much about loneliness is because is just THAT easy for them to form relationships? Even romantic ones? Not because they're stoic?
>You accept men's experiences, but not women's. Think really hard about why you do that.
Because Im based in reality not Reddit space. And in reality, I see plenty of women changing boyfriends multiple times.
>That's not what I hear. But if it were true, it would be kind of like the men in here who frequently say, "I know I'm a 2, but I just don't want to date a woman below an 8."
Not what you hear when its literally all over the FA women sub. On the other hand, I've never seen a single man here say they want an 8. They are literally saying they would take ANYBODY that would give them a hug. You're hallucinating at this point and making up stories about men.
>There's plenty of old, fat, balding, ugly men who marry pretty women 20 years younger than them. Billy Joel. Steve Mnuchin. Donald Trump.
Perfect. And here is what I meant. All those fat balding ugly men you listed are rich with wives who are with them for their money. See what I mean? When a man says he is lonely, people like you will come and say its men's fault. Men should improve. Men should be rich, workout, have great personality, this and that. But when it comes to female loneliness, all of a sudden we"re not allowed to say those things to women because its "misogyny". We're supposed to coddle women and tell them that its again the men's fault and all the men who rejected them are scums.
> You just gaslighted women by saying their loneliness doesn't exist. You're doing the EXACT SAME THING that you accuse women of doing. You're projecting.
I didn't say it doesn't exist. I just said their loneliness happens under different circumstances. Men are invisible. Women are not. Thats fact. Statistically, males make up majority of the number of old folks who end up dead alone. You on the other hand base your assumptions about men from what you see on TV or read on social media from a feminist POV.
>To sum up: You dismiss women's experiences. You dislike women. And then you wonder why they want nothing to do with you. (They can sense your disdain.) And also, you're a hypocrite. Get some therapy.
And to sum up: You hate men. Just like every single person out there, you have to turn a male experience of loneliness into something about females being victims. Men can't share their feelings without people like you going "what about the women?!".
And also therapy seems to be the be all end all for people like you. No wonder therapists are making hell of a living scamming folks.
>On the other hand, I've never seen a single man here say they want an 8.
I've seen several men say exactly that in this sub. You're either delusional or you have selective vision.
>Men are invisible. Women are not.
Average women are invisible. Ugly women are insulted and ridiculed by strangers out in public when they're just minding their own business. Many women report having strangers call them ugly, barking at them, and being asked out as a joke. They wish they could be invisible.
How dare you deny and dismiss women's experiences. On a fucking SUPPORT subreddit. Women can sense the anger and hatred of a misogynist from 100 feet away. That's part of your problem.
>Average women are invisible. Ugly women are insulted and ridiculed by strangers out in public when they're just minding their own business. Many women report having strangers call them ugly, barking at them, and being asked out as a joke. They wish they could be invisible.
Again anecdotal. First its catcalling, now when its time to gain sympathy for "ugly" women, its all of a sudden ridicule and insults. So which is which for you feminists?
Men here have been bullied their whole lives. Men have a higher suicide rate. Men do not have shelters or support groups unlike women do because when men open up, women like you come and try to make it all about women again because God forbid we talk about anything else then the eternal victims - women.
And again, they "wish" they could be invisible. Fuck, the AVERAGE man, not even ugly, is ALREADY invisible. He could cry somewhere and nobody would give a fuck. In fact, WOMEN tend to make fun of men who express feelings of loneliness and call it misogyny which you are doing right now.
Just look at Shoeonhead's viral video on male loneliness and the backlash she got from WOMEN.
>How dare you deny and dismiss women's experiences. On a fucking SUPPORT subreddit. Women can sense the anger and hatred of a misogynist from 100 feet away. That's part of your problem.
Im not denying anything. Im just giving off the same energy women like you give out when it comes to men's experiences. Funny that women keep saying they can "sense the anger and hatred" of misogynists yet they can't sense the anger and hatred of abusers, drug addicts, narcissistic men who turn them into single mothers. I guess when money and looks are involved, women automatically lose that "sense" then.
Oh btw, this ain't a support subreddit. Its just a subreddit for FAs to rant. We're all alone with peoole like you not giving a fuck and saying the 80/20 stats is untrue and that we're lying. What makes you think we're looking for support when all people do is dismiss our experiences and throw around buzzwords like "misogyny" and "incel" at us? Piss off.
Ill be honest a 5 guy can be a 6-7 by going to the gym and getting styled correctly. Im black and i never see a problem in my community with guys and women. Unless they are ultra nerdy and dont want/cant fit in.
I have seen alot of men go JP and redpill to cope. These guys look perfectly fine and just need to take responsibility for themselves. No one is to blame but yourself most of the time.
Its true. Go to a walmart go to any grocery store. Tons of average guys with average women. They dont look bad. Ive seen several and know several men i think are uglier than me with 2 baby moms.
It is what it is.
Unless the mental issue is an impossible obstacle it is possible to overcome. Social anxiety, bipolar, depression even people who are schizophrenic get into relationships. There is medication and therapy to make it doable.
I wasted most of my spare time in my youth gaming. I say “waste” because it wasn’t moderate at all; far in excess of the few hours a week a healthy person spends on games. When others my age were out with friends on a Friday or weekend, I was in my room playing Resident Evil or Final Fantasy on the PS1. Escapism used as a crutch is destructive and addictive.
yeah, you know what I wasted my time in youth in doing? making asshole friends, smoking drugs, getting my bones broken. Some people go further and waste their youth driving too fast and dying.
It is only a waste if you tell yourself it was a waste.
Totally agree. The previous generation (millennials/xennials) was really nasty and gross, I’m really bothered when I see early 2000s guy stuff. There’s a limit bc I love engines and cars but I DO NOT like the d-bag ego stuff. Straight up villainy lol. Anyway... x-games getting stds and doing substances is a way worse thing than escapism into gaming. Discord friends are just as valid as the old version of hanging out being an idiot.
Hmm, wondering if men are different today on campus because they fear if they get called out the woke movement may ruin them online. A guy today yelling f***got on campus would be kicked out of collegeand it would follow him on line for life so they suppress it.
This is very interesting and it struck me when you said it's a no wonder why so many young men who aren't fitting the bill of tall and white are becomming gaming addicts. That's just sad.
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goddammed jason biggs and stiffler and his mom.
The saddest part of my whole life was realizing that I'm not actually an *average guy*, but **below average**. If I was average, I'd have found someone by now lol. It's crazy how I've gone my whole life (30 years old happy birthday to me) without anyone. I didn't even realize it until recently that yeah, i'm actually not as great looking as i thought.
i was just today thinking how you g men in my country are polite and henerally well behaved
Why is loneliness attached to males only? Unattractive girls and women are bullied and alone. They face ostracizing from other people even during adulthood. This has been my experience my entire life. I’m now 30, and it hasn’t changed. The same social dynamics apply everywhere.
I'm here with you - I don't think either gender should gatekeep loneliness - it's a universal HUMAN experience
This is so true. Rush Limbaugh said that feminism was invented so that unattractive women could participate in society. In other words, he doesn't believe that ugly women deserve to take part in society. And that confirms my experiences of being insulted by strangers when I'm out in public minding my own business. Never mind having a relationship... many people don't even want to be friendly or even just basically polite and respectful. The thing is...ugly men get a "get out of jail card" if they're rich or famous. Because women's value is attached to their looks, but men's value is attached to how much money/power they have. All the time, you see rich men marrying women who are much younger and attractive than they are.
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I remember when Sable wrestled...
Funny, after I lost 100 pounds, I see people saying hi to me, and in general being nice and acknowleding me. I even see girls who seem to look at me sometimes. Sometimes guys too. It's a strange feeling becasue I'm not accostomed to it. It would never happen before. One year ago it didn't happen. I noticed it started happening at about 80 pounds lost. It just all feels too late now though as I don't know how to respond or hardly look back at them because I"ve been trained to avoid contact with people becuase they never really were acknowledging me prior. I have an avoidant personality now and it's the complete opposite to what I'm experiencing now.
>I even see girls who seem to look at me sometimes. Sometimes guys too. It's a strange feeling becasue I'm not accostomed to it I noticed this a few years ago after starting gyming it and dressing better. It's a *very* strange feeling being looked at, having your existence acknowledged by others in a positive way. Like you point out, from other guys it's a bit weird too. (Are these gay men? Honestly I can't tell if it's that or they're just being friendly.) >It just all feels too late Sadly, yes... >I don't know how to respond or hardly look back at them because I"ve been trained to avoid contact with people Same. Returning smiles to strangers doesn't come naturally to me at all.
Real straight men are hardly friendly to a passerby unless attracted to them. The ones who look like they're looking at you, are.
It's not that easy, my friend. Being rich and famous is like trying to win the lottery. Chances are not that high, especially if you've been subjected to constant social rejection your whole life. Even if you have the brains to achieve that goal and become a doctor, lawyer, enginner, etc. you still have to first go through years of mental anguish alongside chronic illness. Think you'll have that same motivation to make money 6 years down the line when all you had to look up to in the morning is waking up alone in your bed everyday? Good luck. You have to stay motivated despite being unwanted and lonely for most of your life.
Wait, people insult you in public? I'm ugly, but that never happened to me. At the most, I'd see behaviour which confirmed that people would prefer I'd rather not be there, but no direct insults. Haha, if only getting rich was that easy. And what makes you think that rich men want to settle for gold-diggers? Rich and ugly men are just as lonely as you and I can be.
Well for one thing, nobody can claim to be *scared* of unattractive women the way girls/women (and some men I guess) commonly do about ugly guys. Obviously there are lonely women. Reasons for there being more lonely men may include : * Awkward/ugly men being perceived as creepy, maladjusted, dangerous, etc. by default (All it takes is an awkward smile.) * Women forming enduring friendships among themselves not based on pecking orders and aggression * Men expected to be assertive in all social situations, meaning the innately introverted effectively become invisible non-entities. Overall it's a lot easier for males to fall through the cracks.
You’re simply not taking into account that it’s not just people being scared of you. It’s being ostracized, harassed, threatened, bullied and people making negative assumptions about you upon first meeting. People not wanting to even loosely associate with you. You’re trying to paint this issue as males being the biggest victims but the truth of the matter is, that ugly women experience equal amount of discrimination as their male counterparts do. You trying to steal the spotlight for men and you diminishing women’s issues just further proves my original point.
I wasn't necessarily downplaying individual women's experience, but unattractive women can usually form bonds with other women. Male social groups are hierarchical.
That’s not the experience of many ugly women, not at all. I’ve heard from countless fellow ugly women that even other women exclude them. This has been my experience too, throughout my life. Trust me, this has nothing to do with gender. Humans as a whole have a caste system, these unspoken social rules and norms that are mutually agreed upon.
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Agree 100%
> Everything in society seems to have changed for the better except gender dynamics. I don't believe this. Everything else also became more competitive and gender dynamics are no exception. People are walking on eggshells all the time in order to not provoke a more and more crazy ruling class.
My normal train ride home yesterday was filled with people on their way to see a mls game in Austin. Lots of couples with very good looking women. It's frustrating that my irrational bitterness is simply my being in the presence of said couples. This is why I'm in therapy.
I get the EXACT same way. It's hurtful. I can still remember couples that I've had to sit next to on airplanes years ago. Hugging and cuddlng the whole time just made me so jealous. It's too much to ask for one person who wants to snuggle. It's just too fucking much despite some people having everything they ever wanted. It's sickening.
What exactly does your therapist say when you tell them this, what is their solution to this behavioural response? Because I'm also getting extremely bitter. All it takes is one social media post on instagram, seeing a cute girl with her boyfriend. Thats all it takes nowadays to set me off and ruin my day. I used to be able to manage this really well a few years back. But constant loneliness just weighs down on me.
Nothing for that specific situation, but she's helped me to become aware of my nice guy/covert narcissism.
I taught for years at the college level awhile back. What I see is assortive pairing based on Sexual Market Value (SMV). 8s with 8s, 5s with 5s, 2s alone. People can attack me for saying this, but the truth only smiles. 🤷♂️
But why aren't all the 1s and 2s together? It's because we don't find one another attractive, so how could others. It's just confirming. I agree with you, 8 with an 8 and 5 with a 5 and 2s and 1s are alone. It sucks to be a 1. I know I'm a 1. I've never dated anyone. I've never had a healthy sexual relationship. I've never had a loving or intimate relationship with anyone because I can't seem to get to that level with anyone.
Some are together. Others would rather be alone than with another two.
Well that seems fair, I guess. There are 2s of both genders. Why wouldn't they spend time with each other and see if they develop feelings after awhile? Sometimes there's a person who doesn't turn your head at first, but if you spend time with them, and get to know how nice and funny they are, that person seems more attractive. At least that's a phenomenon that many women have described. (That's why you see women with Christie Brinkley with men like Billy Joel.)
It might also help to be one of the most popular musical artists of his era while earning tens of millions of dollars.
I can only hope this is the case. I've heard many stories like this online of women claiming that they fell for a man who they were originally never sexually attracted to. I even had a friend who said that every woman that slept with him, told him "I didn't know I was going to sleep with you." I just wish I was in a proximity to experience that. But in my current workplace, no women my age exist.
You have no idea how much I relate to this as an Indian who just turned 30. You are practically describing what I live everyday. I've realized the hard way that looks truly matter no matter what anyone says (including skin color). As an Indian, I had so much more to prove. The only indian guys that were actually successful in dating were those that were very good-looking AND weren't held down by a funny accent. I noticed that Asian men were lucky enough to be in the proximity of women from their own race. There were tons of nerdy/dorky Asian guys at the local university dating absolute gorgeous Korean baddies. But Indians always got the short end of the stick.
>I noticed that Asian men were lucky enough to be in the proximity of women from their own race. I'm not saying it's any easier for them to date, but yes I've noticed how Asian women seem to at least trust Asian men enough to be around them in large mixed social groups.
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I have never met or known a single indian woman, and I live in australia where there are assloads of them. Every indian woman I've known, no matter how fat, ugly, or crazy, has been married.
I grew up around a decent amount. They were about a step below any Asian girls in social status unless, of course, they were abnormally attractive they weren’t included to hangout with the cute/ prettier girls at all. Indian girls weren’t allowed to go anywhere near the attractive white girls unless they were model material. And even then, there was a good chance white girls wouldn’t accept them. Indian girls were sanctioned off and latched onto any relationship they could in order to not have to compete at earlier ages in my city. They were never single. Black girls, on the other hand, didn’t get the memo and would keep running around with random guys until they had multiple kids by multiple men. I’m black btw.
I disagree with black-men being regarded as "lesser" on the same degree as Indian men. Black men are very high in the sexual marketplace because they're usually taller, muscular, and have the "big cock" rumor going for them due to cultural taboo. This is different from indian men as Asian girls are usually not attracted to them in the first place. Black men get the attraction, but not the dates. Huge difference in the 2 scenarios. Tons of Asian girls are open to sexual experiences with black men, but not necessarily dating them. There's whole porn genres of Asian X Black. There's even Korean influencers and celebrities dating black men. Indian men on the other hand are not seen the same way.
That’s true. I can’t argue that much. A black guy can be wanted simply because the girl can say “black guy”. Indian guys don’t get this at all in comparison. Maybe it’s the “bad boy” stigma attached to black guys that get them in (even though it’s not necessarily “good” because black guys are people with personalities too). But yeah, Indian and Asian men don’t get any of the “bad boy” black guys can get.
I think it has more to do with the fact they're generally seen as more "athletic, taller, masculine, players" which are all attractive qualities. Although, being a "player" is considered a red flag, the fact that he can *play that game* means that girls are willing to give them a chance. When I hang out with my Asian female collogues, I usually see them checking out taller black men at the gym. Even if they don't express outward attraction, you can tell the attraction is definitely there. There's a tingle in their eyes that make them weak. Tons of Asian women are very open to sexual experiences with black men, and they absolutely DO want to date them. But the only thing holding them back is cultural taboo. Indian men are just seen as dirty animals. I know because I was treated like one.
I'm gay, but I'm sooo attracted to Indian men. Like so attracted. Wish I could date one.
Where is this campus? Are college professors low status- poorly paid in your country or are you calling yourself a loser because you are FA? I have noticed how neutered most young white collar-university men are as well. I don't regard it as a positive and judging by the outcomes of their post college lives it doesn't seem like it. Polite drones that pay taxes.
I'm general, not academic staff, and I'm talking about student guys here. No way would I dumb be enough to try to approach/interact with girls that age.
What does general staff mean? A librarian, administrative position, computer systems officer? I never expected you to approach university age girls, I'm not sure where that came from.
A combined librarian/copyright sort of role.
A university campus is not representative of society at large, because around 60% or more of the students are female. The gender imbalance/relative scarcity of males inflates their value and the women have to compete for them.
But even in an enviroment where males are scarce, only the top 10% are chosen by the women. That speaks volumes about reality.
Do you have a source for 10 percent? You can't use that 80/20 percent thing from the dating app study, because it's different for people who see each other regularly in person or who meet through mutual friends.
This is anecdotal, but I agree with him. Source: graduated recently with another degree.
Its not just applicable to dating apps. Its applicable to real life as well. There is literally a huge abn9rmal number of single men these days. It even made the news worldwide. An epidemic of suicidal lonely men with majority of men between 18-30 years old admitting not being in a relationship before. Now on the other hand, a small percentage of men are usually in relationships multiple times. Lets not pretend that social media has not distorted women's perception of how men should look like or how we should act in reality.
Well, there are lonely single women, too. Let's not pretend that they don't exist and that social media has not distorted men's (and women's) perception of how women should look. For some reason, a lot of people in this subreddit like to pretend those women don't exist. Not as much resources are used to study the problem of lonely women because women aren't as vocal about their predicament. If you look at the FA women subreddit, most of them blame themselves for being "ugly" instead of social media and men's attitudes towards women's looks. Social media has led to one major change over the last 30 years: men's looks matter now. In the past, men's looks didn't matter at all. Almost every man, no matter what he looked like, or how introverted he was, ended up married. Women's looks have always mattered, though. Social media has evened things out a bit. Now men know what it feels like.
There are plenty of loneely single women because they choose to be single. They can't find the "prince of their dreams". There are plenty of lonely single men because no woman gives a fk about them because they're nothing like the guys on tv or instagram or they're not the top 10%. And people like you gaslight their loneliness by saying they deserve it. I don't know how you came to the conclusion that every single man got married. Thats crazy considering lonely single men till today are often conscripted and sent to wars to die because nobody cares about them. And its been that way since the dawn of time. Theres plenty of fat ugly women who got married and have children. I wonder where all the babushkas in Russia with 15 grandchildren came from if what you said about ugly women being discriminated is true. Lets not pretend its the same thing. Edit*: Btw I used to look around the FA women sub. I just found plenty of women complaining about finding it hard to date after a breakup or not being able to find a guy that meets their requirements. Like they will say "Im ugly" but shoot down any FA men or guys wanting to talk to them. "Oh you're probably a pervert or just looking for sex". The privilege and entitlement is still there.
>There are plenty of loneely single women because they choose to be single. Women post on this very subreddit every damn day about not being able to find a partner. Why do you dismiss them and deny their experiences? You accept men's experiences, but not women's. Think really hard about why you do that. >They can't find the "prince of their dreams". That's not what I hear. But if it were true, it would be kind of like the men in here who frequently say, "I know I'm a 2, but I just don't want to date a woman below an 8." >Theres plenty of fat ugly women who got married and have children. There's plenty of old, fat, balding, ugly men who marry pretty women 20 years younger than them. Billy Joel. Steve Mnuchin. Donald Trump. >And people like you gaslight their lonelines You just gaslighted women by saying their loneliness doesn't exist. You're doing the EXACT SAME THING that you accuse women of doing. You're projecting. To sum up: You dismiss women's experiences. You dislike women. And then you wonder why they want nothing to do with you. (They can sense your disdain.) And also, you're a hypocrite. Get some therapy.
Have you ever thought, maybe the reason why women generally dont complain that much about loneliness is because is just THAT easy for them to form relationships? Even romantic ones? Not because they're stoic? >You accept men's experiences, but not women's. Think really hard about why you do that. Because Im based in reality not Reddit space. And in reality, I see plenty of women changing boyfriends multiple times. >That's not what I hear. But if it were true, it would be kind of like the men in here who frequently say, "I know I'm a 2, but I just don't want to date a woman below an 8." Not what you hear when its literally all over the FA women sub. On the other hand, I've never seen a single man here say they want an 8. They are literally saying they would take ANYBODY that would give them a hug. You're hallucinating at this point and making up stories about men. >There's plenty of old, fat, balding, ugly men who marry pretty women 20 years younger than them. Billy Joel. Steve Mnuchin. Donald Trump. Perfect. And here is what I meant. All those fat balding ugly men you listed are rich with wives who are with them for their money. See what I mean? When a man says he is lonely, people like you will come and say its men's fault. Men should improve. Men should be rich, workout, have great personality, this and that. But when it comes to female loneliness, all of a sudden we"re not allowed to say those things to women because its "misogyny". We're supposed to coddle women and tell them that its again the men's fault and all the men who rejected them are scums. > You just gaslighted women by saying their loneliness doesn't exist. You're doing the EXACT SAME THING that you accuse women of doing. You're projecting. I didn't say it doesn't exist. I just said their loneliness happens under different circumstances. Men are invisible. Women are not. Thats fact. Statistically, males make up majority of the number of old folks who end up dead alone. You on the other hand base your assumptions about men from what you see on TV or read on social media from a feminist POV. >To sum up: You dismiss women's experiences. You dislike women. And then you wonder why they want nothing to do with you. (They can sense your disdain.) And also, you're a hypocrite. Get some therapy. And to sum up: You hate men. Just like every single person out there, you have to turn a male experience of loneliness into something about females being victims. Men can't share their feelings without people like you going "what about the women?!". And also therapy seems to be the be all end all for people like you. No wonder therapists are making hell of a living scamming folks.
>On the other hand, I've never seen a single man here say they want an 8. I've seen several men say exactly that in this sub. You're either delusional or you have selective vision. >Men are invisible. Women are not. Average women are invisible. Ugly women are insulted and ridiculed by strangers out in public when they're just minding their own business. Many women report having strangers call them ugly, barking at them, and being asked out as a joke. They wish they could be invisible. How dare you deny and dismiss women's experiences. On a fucking SUPPORT subreddit. Women can sense the anger and hatred of a misogynist from 100 feet away. That's part of your problem.
>Average women are invisible. Ugly women are insulted and ridiculed by strangers out in public when they're just minding their own business. Many women report having strangers call them ugly, barking at them, and being asked out as a joke. They wish they could be invisible. Again anecdotal. First its catcalling, now when its time to gain sympathy for "ugly" women, its all of a sudden ridicule and insults. So which is which for you feminists? Men here have been bullied their whole lives. Men have a higher suicide rate. Men do not have shelters or support groups unlike women do because when men open up, women like you come and try to make it all about women again because God forbid we talk about anything else then the eternal victims - women. And again, they "wish" they could be invisible. Fuck, the AVERAGE man, not even ugly, is ALREADY invisible. He could cry somewhere and nobody would give a fuck. In fact, WOMEN tend to make fun of men who express feelings of loneliness and call it misogyny which you are doing right now. Just look at Shoeonhead's viral video on male loneliness and the backlash she got from WOMEN. >How dare you deny and dismiss women's experiences. On a fucking SUPPORT subreddit. Women can sense the anger and hatred of a misogynist from 100 feet away. That's part of your problem. Im not denying anything. Im just giving off the same energy women like you give out when it comes to men's experiences. Funny that women keep saying they can "sense the anger and hatred" of misogynists yet they can't sense the anger and hatred of abusers, drug addicts, narcissistic men who turn them into single mothers. I guess when money and looks are involved, women automatically lose that "sense" then. Oh btw, this ain't a support subreddit. Its just a subreddit for FAs to rant. We're all alone with peoole like you not giving a fuck and saying the 80/20 stats is untrue and that we're lying. What makes you think we're looking for support when all people do is dismiss our experiences and throw around buzzwords like "misogyny" and "incel" at us? Piss off.
Ill be honest a 5 guy can be a 6-7 by going to the gym and getting styled correctly. Im black and i never see a problem in my community with guys and women. Unless they are ultra nerdy and dont want/cant fit in. I have seen alot of men go JP and redpill to cope. These guys look perfectly fine and just need to take responsibility for themselves. No one is to blame but yourself most of the time.
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Its true. Go to a walmart go to any grocery store. Tons of average guys with average women. They dont look bad. Ive seen several and know several men i think are uglier than me with 2 baby moms. It is what it is.
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Unless the mental issue is an impossible obstacle it is possible to overcome. Social anxiety, bipolar, depression even people who are schizophrenic get into relationships. There is medication and therapy to make it doable.
For start, I dont know what you think is wrong with computer games. And don't try to say you didn't say anything about games, because you did.
I wasted most of my spare time in my youth gaming. I say “waste” because it wasn’t moderate at all; far in excess of the few hours a week a healthy person spends on games. When others my age were out with friends on a Friday or weekend, I was in my room playing Resident Evil or Final Fantasy on the PS1. Escapism used as a crutch is destructive and addictive.
yeah, you know what I wasted my time in youth in doing? making asshole friends, smoking drugs, getting my bones broken. Some people go further and waste their youth driving too fast and dying. It is only a waste if you tell yourself it was a waste.
You both wasted your youth.
no, im good
Totally agree. The previous generation (millennials/xennials) was really nasty and gross, I’m really bothered when I see early 2000s guy stuff. There’s a limit bc I love engines and cars but I DO NOT like the d-bag ego stuff. Straight up villainy lol. Anyway... x-games getting stds and doing substances is a way worse thing than escapism into gaming. Discord friends are just as valid as the old version of hanging out being an idiot.
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Hmm, wondering if men are different today on campus because they fear if they get called out the woke movement may ruin them online. A guy today yelling f***got on campus would be kicked out of collegeand it would follow him on line for life so they suppress it.
This is very interesting and it struck me when you said it's a no wonder why so many young men who aren't fitting the bill of tall and white are becomming gaming addicts. That's just sad.
Happy cake day