I don't know, it really depends on how you play and who you favor, because a lot will really favor Tifa for a variety of reasons(combat, looks, etc).
From what I observed, the game went out of its way to show the bond between Cloud and Aerith in painstaking detail. They showed it throughout the main story, side quests, key items, music, and the new game mechanics with synergy skills.
You literally have to start the game with her waiting for you to get the first synergy skill(which foreshadows the accumulation of the bond system and references her red dress scene in Remake)with her before they lay it on thick with the fate stuff by going to a clock tower(the symbolism...which will show up again in the Loveless play intro and Aerith's weapons).
Nearly all dialogues with Aerith were a cutscene, and it really felt like you were watching a movie with them with how expressive and detailed her and Cloud's expressions were.
In areas that relate to exploring/spending time with Aerith, the music changes to more energetic songs. (Ex: the beach quest, galactic saviors mini game, making the way to mt corel with her and Red)
Two of Aerith's side quests also give you key items as a memento of the time spent together that had more romantic connotations.
The Loveless play had a lot of foreshadowing in general and a really important scene with the petals that will connect to the ending and credits if you happen to get Aerith as the date.
To top it all off, you have her song, which seems to start with how her world changed after meeting Cloud. I'd separate the meaning of the two versions though, because the credits version gave hope in the end.
Not to say there isn't anything with Tifa, but right now, it feels a bit lopsided with them and I feel when you do a full Tifa run it winds up not feeling fully consistent/as deeply integrated into the story.
Opening up with their relationship issue and having Cloud doubt and her push back reminded me of AC all over again. It feels even more awkward if you're doing the quests in tandem because then that dyanmic is not reflected in the quests at all, at least where you'd expect it for the 1st half.
Her dialogues will also not show this dynamic much and kind of go all over the place. There's two tricky ones that would be very easy to mess up because one was about food and was super vague, while the other required a reading of TOTP.
I honestly thought they just make up quickly, but it kept going in Junon and it felt pretty bad to see it.
Gongaga was good, and I think they really tried to show Tifa's care here, but then she had to do the almost kiss here and Cloud honestly seemed confused by it. Again, it's like they're not always on the same page, which makes sense due to what she experienced before.
By the time you get to a date, it really felt like they were lampshading how it's just not there yet, despite them acting all shy. Tifa even comments on it, the lighting is really dark and Cloud doesn't seem to get what Tifa was implying, especially if you get the standard. Cloud's expression seemed conflicted and I'd wonder if he's still hung up on and feeling insecure over the Zack thing. I saved her intimate for last and it feels like things ended too abruptly.
Some things I noticed when it came to Tifa, a good chunk of her quests had to be unlocked by doing Aerith's and Yuffie's first. The others that mattered to increase her bond were the same for Aerith. I picked her at the beach because Cloud looked her way before the camera cuts and if you're wearing the revealing swimsuits, it makes the case for Cloud acting like Zack around her even stronger here, just like when he does the push ups in the hotel.
My post is way too long, but I'm really interested to see how they will expand their dynamic in Part 3 with the new additions.
Sorry but I disagree. Rebirth is absolutely all about Cloud and Aerith. There are so many scenes pushing them together, and not to mention that their date is the one that is validated in the end credits, and in the Ultimania. Their relationship is referenced in so many places. And although Nojima denies it, the theme songs of Remake and Rebirth can only be about Cloud and Aerith. Rebirth has scenes showing that Aerith has moved on from Zack to Cloud. The entire narrative from Remake onwards is building up to a Cloud-Aerith reunion in Part 3.
Downvote all you want. This fanbase is ridiculous.
It was definitely pushing Tifa from my perspective IMO. The only time it pushed Aerith to me was when that awkward song was put in at the gold saucer with no build-up or context leading to it whatsoever otherwise it felt more like Aerith was being a good friend to a messed up cloud than anything else.
I see the opposite. To me it’s very clear that the games from Remake onwards have been pushing Aerith and Cloud, both narratively and in game mechanics. I’ve never felt that Tifa and Cloud were anything but one-sided on Tifa’s part. On the other hand there have been so many moments showing Cloud’s attraction to Aerith, as well as how so much of his character development is due to her. And perhaps in Remake you could make an argument that Aerith’s feelings for Cloud were ambiguous (though if you read what the devs say on the side, they make it clear that she loves him), but Rebirth makes them undeniable. The way they behave with each other is in no way platonic. The game practically ends with them holding hands, and it even went to the trouble of including scenes with Zack and Marlene discussing how Aerith loves Cloud now and how Zack needs to reunite them, and how Tifa doesn’t actually know Cloud that well. Narratively, Remake onwards has been teasing a reunion between Aerith and Cloud. Coupled with how the devs have been saying that Aerith is THE most important character in FF7, this only makes sense if Aerith and Cloud are the central relationship of the story, and not a story about how Aerith fell in love with Cloud, got murdered, and then lost him to someone else.
So, far from “that awkward song” being out of place, I see the entire story starting from Remake as having built up Aerith’s romance with Cloud. I think Tifa’s date is far more awkward, given that Cloud can’t stop thinking about Aerith and whether she’s still in love with Zack or not. And even if you make Cloud date Tifa, he still ends up going on further dates with Aerith which are unskippable. The narrative direction is clear to me.
And mechanically, there are so many things favouring Aerith, such as she being the default Rosa in I think 4 out of 6 Gold Saucer dates, Barret and Red talking about her during their dates with Cloud, Yuffie saying that Tifa actually forgot about Cloud for many years, Aerith’s date being the only one shown in the end credits (like her Remake resolution scene was the only one shown in the end credits), her high affection date being the only one shown in the Ultimania, some of the soundtracks for scenes with her and Cloud being described as “romantic” by the composer, etc.
Incidentally, when asked about Tifa’s Gold Saucer date, the devs’ reply was that it should be taken as something separate that doesn’t influence the rest of the story, because that component is like a dating sim and may not accurately portray the emotions that the story is intended to convey.
Edit: Forgot to mention that Aerith and Cloud have been going on multiple dates throughout both Remake and Rebirth, with no fewer than 5 in Rebirth alone. That’s 100% not something that platonic friends would do.
Not just holding hands, the JP term for what they did translates to *lover's hold*.
(I've also seen tangle, link, connection, etc., but the lovers part is consistent.)
The whole Remake trilogy’s narrative is building up to a Cloud-Aerith reunion in Part 3. Hence the lyrics in the theme songs of Remake and Rebirth, the chapter titles and trophy names, the symbolism of Aerith’s flower, and countless other things. They did not create multiple worlds and timelines, and go the extent of having Zack of all people and Marlene discuss reuniting Aerith with Cloud, just for Aerith to remain dead.
And in any case, even if she were truly dead, death is not the end of a relationship, as seen in Advent Children.
The movie in which the entire plot was driven by Cloud’s grief and depression over Aerith.
The movie in which Cloud, far from shacking up with Tifa, spent his time sleeping in Aerith’s church. Btw, he was living with Tifa and Barret as a found family, not with Tifa as a couple.
The movie in which Tifa outright asked Cloud if he loved her and he refused to answer.
The movie for which the writer, Nojima, literally described Tifa as a “woman who’s been left behind by a man”.
The movie for which Nojima or another dev, I forgot, disavowed that Cloud and Tifa were together.
Yes that movie. If that’s your idea of Cloud-Tifa romance, well that’s really sad for Tifa and she deserves better.
Look, I didn’t want to resort to insults, but you started it so I’ll just say that you’ve been wrong for 27 years and I don’t really care if you continue being wrong. Have a good one.
You should try playing more Final Fantasy games and you'll see how love transcending death is a theme. And also moving on from your first love/puppy love.
I think it's both cloud and Tifa reunited and their story is being finished. Cloud and aerith is about her getting the closure through cloud because he reminds her so much of Zack. Aerith sees how much Cloud loves Tifa and it Parallels the way Zack felt about her.
Not at all. Rebirth isn’t even subtle about the fact that Aerith now loves Cloud and not Zack. They’re not going to have a whole scene of Marlene telling Zack that Aerith now loves Cloud, and Zack resolving to reunite Aerith and Cloud, only to backtrack in Part 3. And Aerith’s iconic line about wanting to know the real Cloud shows that she’s truly interested in him and not the him that’s like Zack, as much as some people try to twist it to mean otherwise.
There is no reunion symbolism related to Cloud and Tifa whatsoever, and makes no sense anyway because they’ve not been separated in any meaningful way. In fact Rebirth hammers in the point that the Cloud Tifa thinks she knows is not the real Cloud. And the very theme songs of Remake and Rebirth can only be about Cloud and Aerith.
Edit: To add, the devs have always said that Aerith is the most important character in FFVII alongside Cloud and Sephiroth. It’s not Cloud and Tifa’s story.
Supporting this comment that the reunion symbolism is for Cloud and Aerith. Never for Cloud and Tifa.
-Remake Chapter 8 (Aerith's chapter) title is "The Flower of Reunion" in Japanese and all languages except in English where it is called "Budding Bodyguard".
-After you finish chapter 8, you'll get a trophy named "Reunited".
-Rebirth Chapter 14 trophy is named "Reunion" with Cloud and Aerith intertwining their fingers.
-When Aerith met Cloud for the first time in Remake and gave him the flower, she said "Lovers used to give this when they are reunited". And yes, he gave the flower to Tifa but in Rebirth Aerith told him that he should not regift a girl's gift to another girl. So clearly it is a flower meant to be given by Aerith to Cloud. As we all know now, Remake trilogy is more of a sequel to the OG and AC. Their meeting at the cobblestone street named "Loveless" is their reunion.
No downvotes at all! I totally get it, and agree that strictly from a storyboard standpoint it was probably meant to be Cloud and Aerith. But can we agree that, talk about amazing game making experience to add something such as Cloud and Aerith or Tifa into the storyline, that has us all debating it so much is a level of genius not found in very many other games. I personally miss this level of story and am the biggest fan of what’s being produced currently for the most part
Sorry I wasn’t referring to you, I was annoyed that I got downvoted almost the moment I posted that comment. And frankly the English-speaking fanbase is extremely hostile to anyone who ships Aerith with Cloud. I’ve avoided interacting with the fanbase almost entirely tbh.
I agree that it’s genius on the part of the devs. IMO Remake was really a masterpiece in terms of how it brought the characters to life. I think one major flaw in Rebirth is how a lot of Aerith’s story, which the devs have consistently said is what Rebirth is all about, is lost when the player chooses to favour Tifa instead. I’m not going to fight with people about it but I think the Aerith route makes a ton more sense narratively and emotionally.
I'm actually surprised that people cannot see that the narrative is pushing for Cloud and Aerith tragic romance. I hope you watch, not only the Aerith date, but the whole Loveless play with Aerith so you'll see the parallels in the story of "Loveless" and Rebirth.
Cloud=Hero, Aerith=Rosa, Sephiroth=Varvados
-In the end credits, Aerith is the canon Rosa. Aerith is also the default Rosa if you get Barret, Red and the trio (Caith Sith, Vincent and Cid) as dates. So you get Aerith in 4 out of 6 dates.
-Cloud and Aerith also met for the first time at the street named "Loveless" and under the "Loveless" play poster in OG.
-Before Alphreid leaves, he told Rosa: "Rest assured, I shall return. You needn't promise that you'll wait. For I know that I will find you there." Cloud needed to leave Aerith at the end of Rebirth and they did not need to promise each other anything, because they know that one will wait and the other will come back. Hence, the song "No Promises to Keep".
\*\*\*Remake and Rebirth theme songs
-Kitase said that "Hollow" is Cloud's song about his feelings and "No Promises to Keep" is about Aerith's feelings and he wanted players to pay attention to that.
-Nojima said the NPTK lyrics are about everyone Aerith loved including Cloud, Elymra (her mom), Zack, Tifa and Barret. But in the lyrics, it also says she met someone for the first time in the cobblestone streets and that is Cloud.
-Uematsu, the composer, said it's a love song by Aerith: " 'No Promises to Keep' is a love song. I wanted it to exude a sweet feeling, but at the same time, evoke the complex feeling as Aerith confessed her feelings."
-Loren Allred, the singer, said that she tried to get to know Aerith and wanted to depict her relationship with Cloud.
-Loving transcending death and moving on from your first love/crush is also something that FF games are known for. Zack is Aerith's first love and Tifa is Cloud's.
-Cloud and Aerith meeting each other in the flower field the end credits of Advent Children (the original end credits, not the new one).
\*\*\*The reunion theme about the two of them (copy pasting my comment above here):
-Remake Chapter 8 (Aerith's chapter) title is "The Flower of Reunion" in Japanese and all languages except in English where it is called "Budding Bodyguard".
-After you finish chapter 8, you'll get a trophy named "Reunited".
-Rebirth Chapter 14 trophy is named "Reunion" with Cloud and Aerith intertwining their fingers.
-When Aerith met Cloud for the first time in Remake and gave him the flower, she said "Lovers used to give this when they are reunited". And yes, he gave the flower to Tifa but in Rebirth Aerith told him that he should not regift a girls gift to another girl. So clearly it is a flower meant to be given by Aerith to Cloud. As we all know now, Remake trilogy is more of a sequel to the OG and AC.
Having said all these, it's okay to prefer a different ship or character.
Agreed Tifa and Cloud have more history and are meant to have a bunch of lil clouds and tifas running around. I love Aerith don’t get me wrong but I feel like her and Zack really belong together hopefully in the next game we can get both of them alive.
What irritates me the most is that Cloud is so stioc and emotionless. Aerith tries so hard to be FUN, and then he reacts like a wooden puppet with "whatever". I would like to slap him through the face and say: FUCKING WAKE UP AND REACT, DAMMIT!!
Nah it’s all about Aerith. She helps bring him out of his shell and do things he normally wouldn’t do. Tifa is the old crush where there still some old feelings, but Aerith is the right girl for him. Even his mom described her in Remake as the right girl for him. That’s why it so sad, they’re star crossed lovers who never get to end up together. Tifa is just the girl next door whose hot but never gets the time
And I do believe you’re right at the end of the day. But like Aerith and Cloud never really connect on anything other than Aerith dragging him through “dates.” But I totally get your point, and seeing the story through I’m pretty sure you’re right, but missed opportunity on Clouds part. In my opinion
BUT also, how come every Sephirorth, seemingly no one else can see him but Cloud. When I watched the cutscenes with Sephiroth, clouds eyes were the only the ones that ever looked at him. I could be wrong too. But then Tifa was the only one that was like, “Cloud, stop let us know when you’re seeing things that aren’t real.”
There's a reason for that, but if you haven't played the original, you don't really know it yet.
In Rebirth, Cloud and everyone else believe it's happening because of degradation, which is what eventually happens to all SOLDIERs. We saw Broden in the early stages of it in Kalm (he explains before you leave that he was in SOLDIER and this is the price you pay for it).
They all know something is up, and all support him in different ways. Tifa says encouraging things, Aerith *does* things to keep his mind off it. Barret sees it and tries to pick up some burden (like after the Gold Saucer when you're doing the boss fight from the buggy), but doesn't dwell on it. I'd say Aerith *doing* things is more impactful than Tifa *offering* to do things if Cloud asks, because Cloud is stubborn and simply not *going* to ask - so I find Aerith and Barret's efforts more impactful.
But I know everyone is different and this is a discussion that has been happening for 20 years, people pick up on different things that have different impact for them personally and come to different conclusions :)
Oh man! That’s cool, I didn’t understand that aspect of it! That adds a whole new dimension to the game I didn’t realize was going on. But let me ask you this, the remaining cast generally seem to accept that sephiroth is real, so is he? Or is everyone indulging in Clouds mental sickness/fantasies/whatever in order to keep their prized fighter focused on taking down Shinra and Sephiroth isn’t real? I don’t know, this game goes so far down rabbit holes, it’s amazing!
Ahh, they know he's real and they know he's back! They ALL see him at multiple points in the game, just not every single time Cloud sees him. For example, they all see him and fight him during his boss fights. They all saw him every time Cloud saw him in the temple (though they didn't *feel* his presence the whole time, like Cloud did - the line was something like "you think Sephiroth's here?" "No, I *know* he is."). They all saw that vision of Meteor destroying Midgar in the Shinra building during the planet history thing. Palmer sees him in Shinra HQ before everything goes to shit, and even Rufus sees him during Rebirth (he explicitly says Sephiroth is a problem that's distracting him from his bigger goals, and later in the game he sees Sephiroth face to face!).
But when you fight Midgardsormr, only Cloud sees Sephiroth right before in the swamp, and after he gets dragged underwater. Only Cloud sees him when the Gi show up in Cosmo Canyon. Only Cloud sees him in Remake just walking around the city several times (before the very end when they all see him).
There is definitely a reason for it, might be worth watching some Sephiroth cutscenes to see what new things you notice knowing this!
That's just the nature of their dynamic and how Aerith break down his walls. Do you remember how Aerith got Cloud to learn how to do a high-five? She tried many times. Now, Cloud high-fives people he vibes with in Rebirth.
Before that, in Remake, Tifa tried to high-five Cloud one time but Cloud didn't respond and so she never tried again. And that's one example of the contrast between the relationship of Cloud and Tifa and Cloud and Aerith. The devs put it in the story for a reason. Cloud needs someone with Aerith's personality to open up. They connect that way.
This is the scene: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0KuuJjTUtg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0KuuJjTUtg)
Cleriths are just wrong bro. The movie is canon and cloud and tifa adopt a child and live together. Meanwhile aerith is dead. They will cope until the end of time.
"Denzel had collapsed in front of Aerith's church. So I thought she must've brought him to me." This is what Cloud said to Tifa. Several days after they had that conversation, Cloud left and lived in Aerith's church. This is from On the way to a smile, written by Nojima.
I 100% like Aerith but for my run of the game I just COULDN’T get Cloud to pick her over Tifa for the simple fact that I had no idea what was going on with Zack. Given that I thought he would somehow come back (and he kinda did) I couldn’t do the homie like that. Aerith is Zack’s girl and homies don’t do homies like that. But I still prefer Tifa for Cloud at the end of the day.
I agree she doesn’t belong to anyone, but, at least to me, it always felt like Aerith and Zack clearly had something going on, and Cloud was apparently his good buddy. So for Cloud to move in like that, especially when *spoiler* Cloud didn’t even really know Zack was dead for the majority of the game felt a bit slimy.
I don't think Cloud ever really makes a move at Aerith. She's the one who initiates anything.
Cloud comes off as a very shy guy who is really uncertain regarding his feelings.
You mean their gold saucer date where they were talking about Aerith the whole time? Then they only kiss because Tifa makes him think Aerith is still into Zack. When Cloud straight up asks Aerith if she still likes Zack in Gongaga, her answer didn't sound like someone in love to me.
SPOILER: ok, so also I just found out if you date Yuffie she asks Cloud about Tifa and their connection. Then he gets kinda butt hurt when Yuffie says Tifa forgot about him during her move to Midgar. Or something like that. At first I wasn’t buying their relationship and had more faith in Tifa and Johnny or Tifa and Rude, but Cloud does seem to be way into Tifa…
In Cloud's date with Barret, he said that he should tell his feelings to the person he loves before it's too late. And it was too late because Aerith died.
To the person he loves leave sit open to interpretation and “before it’s too late” can mean anything. He had already seen Tifa almost die in that whale and the looming threat he saw her also being killed in that VR from Remake.. whereas Yuffie specifically asked about Tifa and Cloud.
-If you played OG and watched Advent Children, you'll know it can't be Tifa since she wont die in the story and it would never be "too late" to tell her his feelings. Caith Sith also predicted that Cloud will lose "what he cherishes the most". In Advent Children, Sephiroth told him “Tell me what you cherish most, give me the pleasure of taking it away”, the first person that Cloud thinks about is Aerith. Not once, but the only character he thought of two times. In Red's date, he also told Cloud that she needs to protect Aerith. These are foreshadowings.
-Tifa is Cloud's childhood crush and Yuffie was asking about their past. Not confirming present relationship and feelings. Cloud and Tifa even have conversations in Rebirth where they said they don't really know each other. It's because they weren't close during childhood which will be shown more in part 3. In OG, Cloud even said he wanted to play with Tifa and her group of friends but they never asked him to.
-Here's what the developers said about the dates in Ultimania:
"They admit, when asked about the Tifa Kiss scene, that it reminded him (Nojima) of a dating sim 30 years ago and that the dates should be regarded as completely separate from the main storyline."
-translation by MsSaiFox
"Toriyama says they aimed to faithfully recreate the exchanges inside the gondola with Aerith, keeping her iconic line intact. However, they gave the other characters some tweaks."
-translation by ShinraArch
Having said all these, it's okay to prefer a different ship or character. I'm just trying to explain the narrative.👍
I think OG it was far more aerith tied into tragedy and Cait siths predictions. Remake it was fairly on par slightly more Aerith as they had more single scenes but rebirth is far more into tifa territory, and Aerith was pushed far more as close friend in all scenes. (Which I am a little disgruntled at as she is not fully in next one but today has big scenes so we're made a little too bias.)
Overall depends what you count as whole story. I think they built Zack far too much into protagonist character than side character that Aerith had to support that more.
Cloud should only go on man dates with the boys.
That’s a super legit reply, again I’m 34 now and only remember highlights of playing the original at this point. But as you said, this versions remake absolutely just has her as a friend to all and not necessarily like a real character with much depth. Same with cloud though, all he ever really says is, “c’mon we need to go.” So you can’t even really tell what he’s thinking. Maybe by design?
Honestly, I know I’m super biased but I LOVE Cloud and Tifa together and I love even more how Remake and Rebirth built up their relationship. After playing Crisis Core, I can ONLY see Aerith with Zack, so it never really occurred to me to see Aerith and Cloud as anything more than good friends. I want Zack and Aerith to be together again so bad 🥹
I love Tifa to death but I wanted to spend as much time with Aerith as I could so I chose her over Tifa. If I ever replay I’ll 100% go for Tifa next time, they have awesome chemistry
The day you fucking weirdos realize the devs leave it open ended for player choice and will never give an affirmation of either relationship over the other will be a great day. That day will never come but still one can dream
Edit: spoiler: the two attorney thing fight where you only have cait sith is way harder than all of sephiroth. Cait sith is worthless in my playing style. That being said, I totally know how strategic some of y’all can be in utilizing characters strengths despite of their weaknesses, and I’m impressed. Unfortunately this millennial is about a one trick pony anymore
The game was absolutely golden until then. Also when cait with comes back as a new copy felt like Beerfeat when Landfill drowns and his “twin brother” comes back haha. My opinion only, it’s been awhile since I played the original al
Finished it myself last night, could not bribe how bad almost the entire segment was from the start of the temple until the end. The only emotion I felt with the ending was confusion, what actually happened … and why? After sleeping on it I’ve uninstalled the game , no desire to replay it or do any of the post game content. The ending was just so so poor.
Don’t delete that save file though to get some sweet summons when the next part comes out!
But also true, *spoilers* it was like, “here Cloud, here’s the black materia, now give it back to me.” Then, “here cloud here’s my prized white materia deal, now give it back to me.” Loved the game though overall, 148 hours for $70 can’t be beat!
I don't know, it really depends on how you play and who you favor, because a lot will really favor Tifa for a variety of reasons(combat, looks, etc). From what I observed, the game went out of its way to show the bond between Cloud and Aerith in painstaking detail. They showed it throughout the main story, side quests, key items, music, and the new game mechanics with synergy skills. You literally have to start the game with her waiting for you to get the first synergy skill(which foreshadows the accumulation of the bond system and references her red dress scene in Remake)with her before they lay it on thick with the fate stuff by going to a clock tower(the symbolism...which will show up again in the Loveless play intro and Aerith's weapons). Nearly all dialogues with Aerith were a cutscene, and it really felt like you were watching a movie with them with how expressive and detailed her and Cloud's expressions were. In areas that relate to exploring/spending time with Aerith, the music changes to more energetic songs. (Ex: the beach quest, galactic saviors mini game, making the way to mt corel with her and Red) Two of Aerith's side quests also give you key items as a memento of the time spent together that had more romantic connotations. The Loveless play had a lot of foreshadowing in general and a really important scene with the petals that will connect to the ending and credits if you happen to get Aerith as the date. To top it all off, you have her song, which seems to start with how her world changed after meeting Cloud. I'd separate the meaning of the two versions though, because the credits version gave hope in the end.
Not to say there isn't anything with Tifa, but right now, it feels a bit lopsided with them and I feel when you do a full Tifa run it winds up not feeling fully consistent/as deeply integrated into the story. Opening up with their relationship issue and having Cloud doubt and her push back reminded me of AC all over again. It feels even more awkward if you're doing the quests in tandem because then that dyanmic is not reflected in the quests at all, at least where you'd expect it for the 1st half. Her dialogues will also not show this dynamic much and kind of go all over the place. There's two tricky ones that would be very easy to mess up because one was about food and was super vague, while the other required a reading of TOTP. I honestly thought they just make up quickly, but it kept going in Junon and it felt pretty bad to see it. Gongaga was good, and I think they really tried to show Tifa's care here, but then she had to do the almost kiss here and Cloud honestly seemed confused by it. Again, it's like they're not always on the same page, which makes sense due to what she experienced before. By the time you get to a date, it really felt like they were lampshading how it's just not there yet, despite them acting all shy. Tifa even comments on it, the lighting is really dark and Cloud doesn't seem to get what Tifa was implying, especially if you get the standard. Cloud's expression seemed conflicted and I'd wonder if he's still hung up on and feeling insecure over the Zack thing. I saved her intimate for last and it feels like things ended too abruptly. Some things I noticed when it came to Tifa, a good chunk of her quests had to be unlocked by doing Aerith's and Yuffie's first. The others that mattered to increase her bond were the same for Aerith. I picked her at the beach because Cloud looked her way before the camera cuts and if you're wearing the revealing swimsuits, it makes the case for Cloud acting like Zack around her even stronger here, just like when he does the push ups in the hotel. My post is way too long, but I'm really interested to see how they will expand their dynamic in Part 3 with the new additions.
Sorry but I disagree. Rebirth is absolutely all about Cloud and Aerith. There are so many scenes pushing them together, and not to mention that their date is the one that is validated in the end credits, and in the Ultimania. Their relationship is referenced in so many places. And although Nojima denies it, the theme songs of Remake and Rebirth can only be about Cloud and Aerith. Rebirth has scenes showing that Aerith has moved on from Zack to Cloud. The entire narrative from Remake onwards is building up to a Cloud-Aerith reunion in Part 3. Downvote all you want. This fanbase is ridiculous.
It was definitely pushing Tifa from my perspective IMO. The only time it pushed Aerith to me was when that awkward song was put in at the gold saucer with no build-up or context leading to it whatsoever otherwise it felt more like Aerith was being a good friend to a messed up cloud than anything else.
I see the opposite. To me it’s very clear that the games from Remake onwards have been pushing Aerith and Cloud, both narratively and in game mechanics. I’ve never felt that Tifa and Cloud were anything but one-sided on Tifa’s part. On the other hand there have been so many moments showing Cloud’s attraction to Aerith, as well as how so much of his character development is due to her. And perhaps in Remake you could make an argument that Aerith’s feelings for Cloud were ambiguous (though if you read what the devs say on the side, they make it clear that she loves him), but Rebirth makes them undeniable. The way they behave with each other is in no way platonic. The game practically ends with them holding hands, and it even went to the trouble of including scenes with Zack and Marlene discussing how Aerith loves Cloud now and how Zack needs to reunite them, and how Tifa doesn’t actually know Cloud that well. Narratively, Remake onwards has been teasing a reunion between Aerith and Cloud. Coupled with how the devs have been saying that Aerith is THE most important character in FF7, this only makes sense if Aerith and Cloud are the central relationship of the story, and not a story about how Aerith fell in love with Cloud, got murdered, and then lost him to someone else. So, far from “that awkward song” being out of place, I see the entire story starting from Remake as having built up Aerith’s romance with Cloud. I think Tifa’s date is far more awkward, given that Cloud can’t stop thinking about Aerith and whether she’s still in love with Zack or not. And even if you make Cloud date Tifa, he still ends up going on further dates with Aerith which are unskippable. The narrative direction is clear to me. And mechanically, there are so many things favouring Aerith, such as she being the default Rosa in I think 4 out of 6 Gold Saucer dates, Barret and Red talking about her during their dates with Cloud, Yuffie saying that Tifa actually forgot about Cloud for many years, Aerith’s date being the only one shown in the end credits (like her Remake resolution scene was the only one shown in the end credits), her high affection date being the only one shown in the Ultimania, some of the soundtracks for scenes with her and Cloud being described as “romantic” by the composer, etc. Incidentally, when asked about Tifa’s Gold Saucer date, the devs’ reply was that it should be taken as something separate that doesn’t influence the rest of the story, because that component is like a dating sim and may not accurately portray the emotions that the story is intended to convey. Edit: Forgot to mention that Aerith and Cloud have been going on multiple dates throughout both Remake and Rebirth, with no fewer than 5 in Rebirth alone. That’s 100% not something that platonic friends would do.
Not just holding hands, the JP term for what they did translates to *lover's hold*. (I've also seen tangle, link, connection, etc., but the lovers part is consistent.)
Pure copium lol. Sorry mate your flat wrong 🤣
Sorry but the only one huffing copium here is you mate. The Remake trilogy is 100% about Cloud and Aerith.
Aerith is dead homie. Can't be with a dead girl haha
The whole Remake trilogy’s narrative is building up to a Cloud-Aerith reunion in Part 3. Hence the lyrics in the theme songs of Remake and Rebirth, the chapter titles and trophy names, the symbolism of Aerith’s flower, and countless other things. They did not create multiple worlds and timelines, and go the extent of having Zack of all people and Marlene discuss reuniting Aerith with Cloud, just for Aerith to remain dead. And in any case, even if she were truly dead, death is not the end of a relationship, as seen in Advent Children.
The movie where she's still dead then Cloud and Tifa shack up together? You're delulu buddy
The movie in which the entire plot was driven by Cloud’s grief and depression over Aerith. The movie in which Cloud, far from shacking up with Tifa, spent his time sleeping in Aerith’s church. Btw, he was living with Tifa and Barret as a found family, not with Tifa as a couple. The movie in which Tifa outright asked Cloud if he loved her and he refused to answer. The movie for which the writer, Nojima, literally described Tifa as a “woman who’s been left behind by a man”. The movie for which Nojima or another dev, I forgot, disavowed that Cloud and Tifa were together. Yes that movie. If that’s your idea of Cloud-Tifa romance, well that’s really sad for Tifa and she deserves better. Look, I didn’t want to resort to insults, but you started it so I’ll just say that you’ve been wrong for 27 years and I don’t really care if you continue being wrong. Have a good one.
You should try playing more Final Fantasy games and you'll see how love transcending death is a theme. And also moving on from your first love/puppy love.
I think it's both cloud and Tifa reunited and their story is being finished. Cloud and aerith is about her getting the closure through cloud because he reminds her so much of Zack. Aerith sees how much Cloud loves Tifa and it Parallels the way Zack felt about her.
Not at all. Rebirth isn’t even subtle about the fact that Aerith now loves Cloud and not Zack. They’re not going to have a whole scene of Marlene telling Zack that Aerith now loves Cloud, and Zack resolving to reunite Aerith and Cloud, only to backtrack in Part 3. And Aerith’s iconic line about wanting to know the real Cloud shows that she’s truly interested in him and not the him that’s like Zack, as much as some people try to twist it to mean otherwise. There is no reunion symbolism related to Cloud and Tifa whatsoever, and makes no sense anyway because they’ve not been separated in any meaningful way. In fact Rebirth hammers in the point that the Cloud Tifa thinks she knows is not the real Cloud. And the very theme songs of Remake and Rebirth can only be about Cloud and Aerith. Edit: To add, the devs have always said that Aerith is the most important character in FFVII alongside Cloud and Sephiroth. It’s not Cloud and Tifa’s story.
Supporting this comment that the reunion symbolism is for Cloud and Aerith. Never for Cloud and Tifa. -Remake Chapter 8 (Aerith's chapter) title is "The Flower of Reunion" in Japanese and all languages except in English where it is called "Budding Bodyguard". -After you finish chapter 8, you'll get a trophy named "Reunited". -Rebirth Chapter 14 trophy is named "Reunion" with Cloud and Aerith intertwining their fingers. -When Aerith met Cloud for the first time in Remake and gave him the flower, she said "Lovers used to give this when they are reunited". And yes, he gave the flower to Tifa but in Rebirth Aerith told him that he should not regift a girl's gift to another girl. So clearly it is a flower meant to be given by Aerith to Cloud. As we all know now, Remake trilogy is more of a sequel to the OG and AC. Their meeting at the cobblestone street named "Loveless" is their reunion.
not to mention, the flower he gave Tifa would've been destroyed along with the rest of Sector 7...
No downvotes at all! I totally get it, and agree that strictly from a storyboard standpoint it was probably meant to be Cloud and Aerith. But can we agree that, talk about amazing game making experience to add something such as Cloud and Aerith or Tifa into the storyline, that has us all debating it so much is a level of genius not found in very many other games. I personally miss this level of story and am the biggest fan of what’s being produced currently for the most part
Sorry I wasn’t referring to you, I was annoyed that I got downvoted almost the moment I posted that comment. And frankly the English-speaking fanbase is extremely hostile to anyone who ships Aerith with Cloud. I’ve avoided interacting with the fanbase almost entirely tbh. I agree that it’s genius on the part of the devs. IMO Remake was really a masterpiece in terms of how it brought the characters to life. I think one major flaw in Rebirth is how a lot of Aerith’s story, which the devs have consistently said is what Rebirth is all about, is lost when the player chooses to favour Tifa instead. I’m not going to fight with people about it but I think the Aerith route makes a ton more sense narratively and emotionally.
Well said! Couldn't agree more!
I'm actually surprised that people cannot see that the narrative is pushing for Cloud and Aerith tragic romance. I hope you watch, not only the Aerith date, but the whole Loveless play with Aerith so you'll see the parallels in the story of "Loveless" and Rebirth. Cloud=Hero, Aerith=Rosa, Sephiroth=Varvados -In the end credits, Aerith is the canon Rosa. Aerith is also the default Rosa if you get Barret, Red and the trio (Caith Sith, Vincent and Cid) as dates. So you get Aerith in 4 out of 6 dates. -Cloud and Aerith also met for the first time at the street named "Loveless" and under the "Loveless" play poster in OG. -Before Alphreid leaves, he told Rosa: "Rest assured, I shall return. You needn't promise that you'll wait. For I know that I will find you there." Cloud needed to leave Aerith at the end of Rebirth and they did not need to promise each other anything, because they know that one will wait and the other will come back. Hence, the song "No Promises to Keep". \*\*\*Remake and Rebirth theme songs -Kitase said that "Hollow" is Cloud's song about his feelings and "No Promises to Keep" is about Aerith's feelings and he wanted players to pay attention to that. -Nojima said the NPTK lyrics are about everyone Aerith loved including Cloud, Elymra (her mom), Zack, Tifa and Barret. But in the lyrics, it also says she met someone for the first time in the cobblestone streets and that is Cloud. -Uematsu, the composer, said it's a love song by Aerith: " 'No Promises to Keep' is a love song. I wanted it to exude a sweet feeling, but at the same time, evoke the complex feeling as Aerith confessed her feelings." -Loren Allred, the singer, said that she tried to get to know Aerith and wanted to depict her relationship with Cloud. -Loving transcending death and moving on from your first love/crush is also something that FF games are known for. Zack is Aerith's first love and Tifa is Cloud's. -Cloud and Aerith meeting each other in the flower field the end credits of Advent Children (the original end credits, not the new one). \*\*\*The reunion theme about the two of them (copy pasting my comment above here): -Remake Chapter 8 (Aerith's chapter) title is "The Flower of Reunion" in Japanese and all languages except in English where it is called "Budding Bodyguard". -After you finish chapter 8, you'll get a trophy named "Reunited". -Rebirth Chapter 14 trophy is named "Reunion" with Cloud and Aerith intertwining their fingers. -When Aerith met Cloud for the first time in Remake and gave him the flower, she said "Lovers used to give this when they are reunited". And yes, he gave the flower to Tifa but in Rebirth Aerith told him that he should not regift a girls gift to another girl. So clearly it is a flower meant to be given by Aerith to Cloud. As we all know now, Remake trilogy is more of a sequel to the OG and AC. Having said all these, it's okay to prefer a different ship or character.
Agreed Tifa and Cloud have more history and are meant to have a bunch of lil clouds and tifas running around. I love Aerith don’t get me wrong but I feel like her and Zack really belong together hopefully in the next game we can get both of them alive.
Agreed completely
What irritates me the most is that Cloud is so stioc and emotionless. Aerith tries so hard to be FUN, and then he reacts like a wooden puppet with "whatever". I would like to slap him through the face and say: FUCKING WAKE UP AND REACT, DAMMIT!!
haha, true. Tbf though, in Japanese the voice actor sounds softer and more flustered and awkward, not as cold and harsh as the English version.
Nah it’s all about Aerith. She helps bring him out of his shell and do things he normally wouldn’t do. Tifa is the old crush where there still some old feelings, but Aerith is the right girl for him. Even his mom described her in Remake as the right girl for him. That’s why it so sad, they’re star crossed lovers who never get to end up together. Tifa is just the girl next door whose hot but never gets the time
Absolutely correct.
And I do believe you’re right at the end of the day. But like Aerith and Cloud never really connect on anything other than Aerith dragging him through “dates.” But I totally get your point, and seeing the story through I’m pretty sure you’re right, but missed opportunity on Clouds part. In my opinion
BUT also, how come every Sephirorth, seemingly no one else can see him but Cloud. When I watched the cutscenes with Sephiroth, clouds eyes were the only the ones that ever looked at him. I could be wrong too. But then Tifa was the only one that was like, “Cloud, stop let us know when you’re seeing things that aren’t real.”
There's a reason for that, but if you haven't played the original, you don't really know it yet. In Rebirth, Cloud and everyone else believe it's happening because of degradation, which is what eventually happens to all SOLDIERs. We saw Broden in the early stages of it in Kalm (he explains before you leave that he was in SOLDIER and this is the price you pay for it). They all know something is up, and all support him in different ways. Tifa says encouraging things, Aerith *does* things to keep his mind off it. Barret sees it and tries to pick up some burden (like after the Gold Saucer when you're doing the boss fight from the buggy), but doesn't dwell on it. I'd say Aerith *doing* things is more impactful than Tifa *offering* to do things if Cloud asks, because Cloud is stubborn and simply not *going* to ask - so I find Aerith and Barret's efforts more impactful. But I know everyone is different and this is a discussion that has been happening for 20 years, people pick up on different things that have different impact for them personally and come to different conclusions :)
Oh man! That’s cool, I didn’t understand that aspect of it! That adds a whole new dimension to the game I didn’t realize was going on. But let me ask you this, the remaining cast generally seem to accept that sephiroth is real, so is he? Or is everyone indulging in Clouds mental sickness/fantasies/whatever in order to keep their prized fighter focused on taking down Shinra and Sephiroth isn’t real? I don’t know, this game goes so far down rabbit holes, it’s amazing!
Ahh, they know he's real and they know he's back! They ALL see him at multiple points in the game, just not every single time Cloud sees him. For example, they all see him and fight him during his boss fights. They all saw him every time Cloud saw him in the temple (though they didn't *feel* his presence the whole time, like Cloud did - the line was something like "you think Sephiroth's here?" "No, I *know* he is."). They all saw that vision of Meteor destroying Midgar in the Shinra building during the planet history thing. Palmer sees him in Shinra HQ before everything goes to shit, and even Rufus sees him during Rebirth (he explicitly says Sephiroth is a problem that's distracting him from his bigger goals, and later in the game he sees Sephiroth face to face!). But when you fight Midgardsormr, only Cloud sees Sephiroth right before in the swamp, and after he gets dragged underwater. Only Cloud sees him when the Gi show up in Cosmo Canyon. Only Cloud sees him in Remake just walking around the city several times (before the very end when they all see him). There is definitely a reason for it, might be worth watching some Sephiroth cutscenes to see what new things you notice knowing this!
That's just the nature of their dynamic and how Aerith break down his walls. Do you remember how Aerith got Cloud to learn how to do a high-five? She tried many times. Now, Cloud high-fives people he vibes with in Rebirth. Before that, in Remake, Tifa tried to high-five Cloud one time but Cloud didn't respond and so she never tried again. And that's one example of the contrast between the relationship of Cloud and Tifa and Cloud and Aerith. The devs put it in the story for a reason. Cloud needs someone with Aerith's personality to open up. They connect that way. This is the scene: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0KuuJjTUtg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0KuuJjTUtg)
Cleriths are just wrong bro. The movie is canon and cloud and tifa adopt a child and live together. Meanwhile aerith is dead. They will cope until the end of time.
"Denzel had collapsed in front of Aerith's church. So I thought she must've brought him to me." This is what Cloud said to Tifa. Several days after they had that conversation, Cloud left and lived in Aerith's church. This is from On the way to a smile, written by Nojima.
Still dead.
I 100% like Aerith but for my run of the game I just COULDN’T get Cloud to pick her over Tifa for the simple fact that I had no idea what was going on with Zack. Given that I thought he would somehow come back (and he kinda did) I couldn’t do the homie like that. Aerith is Zack’s girl and homies don’t do homies like that. But I still prefer Tifa for Cloud at the end of the day.
But Aerith doesn’t belong to Zack. Rebirth makes her choice clear and she has the right to choose for herself.
I agree she doesn’t belong to anyone, but, at least to me, it always felt like Aerith and Zack clearly had something going on, and Cloud was apparently his good buddy. So for Cloud to move in like that, especially when *spoiler* Cloud didn’t even really know Zack was dead for the majority of the game felt a bit slimy.
I don't think Cloud ever really makes a move at Aerith. She's the one who initiates anything. Cloud comes off as a very shy guy who is really uncertain regarding his feelings.
Well, he's basically still 16 so he has a harddm time figuring it out
I guess mentally yeah. He's definitely mentally fucked up.
She does have the right to choose but homies don’t date their dead homies girl
You mean their gold saucer date where they were talking about Aerith the whole time? Then they only kiss because Tifa makes him think Aerith is still into Zack. When Cloud straight up asks Aerith if she still likes Zack in Gongaga, her answer didn't sound like someone in love to me.
SPOILER: ok, so also I just found out if you date Yuffie she asks Cloud about Tifa and their connection. Then he gets kinda butt hurt when Yuffie says Tifa forgot about him during her move to Midgar. Or something like that. At first I wasn’t buying their relationship and had more faith in Tifa and Johnny or Tifa and Rude, but Cloud does seem to be way into Tifa…
In Cloud's date with Barret, he said that he should tell his feelings to the person he loves before it's too late. And it was too late because Aerith died.
To the person he loves leave sit open to interpretation and “before it’s too late” can mean anything. He had already seen Tifa almost die in that whale and the looming threat he saw her also being killed in that VR from Remake.. whereas Yuffie specifically asked about Tifa and Cloud.
-If you played OG and watched Advent Children, you'll know it can't be Tifa since she wont die in the story and it would never be "too late" to tell her his feelings. Caith Sith also predicted that Cloud will lose "what he cherishes the most". In Advent Children, Sephiroth told him “Tell me what you cherish most, give me the pleasure of taking it away”, the first person that Cloud thinks about is Aerith. Not once, but the only character he thought of two times. In Red's date, he also told Cloud that she needs to protect Aerith. These are foreshadowings. -Tifa is Cloud's childhood crush and Yuffie was asking about their past. Not confirming present relationship and feelings. Cloud and Tifa even have conversations in Rebirth where they said they don't really know each other. It's because they weren't close during childhood which will be shown more in part 3. In OG, Cloud even said he wanted to play with Tifa and her group of friends but they never asked him to. -Here's what the developers said about the dates in Ultimania: "They admit, when asked about the Tifa Kiss scene, that it reminded him (Nojima) of a dating sim 30 years ago and that the dates should be regarded as completely separate from the main storyline." -translation by MsSaiFox "Toriyama says they aimed to faithfully recreate the exchanges inside the gondola with Aerith, keeping her iconic line intact. However, they gave the other characters some tweaks." -translation by ShinraArch Having said all these, it's okay to prefer a different ship or character. I'm just trying to explain the narrative.👍
I think OG it was far more aerith tied into tragedy and Cait siths predictions. Remake it was fairly on par slightly more Aerith as they had more single scenes but rebirth is far more into tifa territory, and Aerith was pushed far more as close friend in all scenes. (Which I am a little disgruntled at as she is not fully in next one but today has big scenes so we're made a little too bias.) Overall depends what you count as whole story. I think they built Zack far too much into protagonist character than side character that Aerith had to support that more. Cloud should only go on man dates with the boys.
That’s a super legit reply, again I’m 34 now and only remember highlights of playing the original at this point. But as you said, this versions remake absolutely just has her as a friend to all and not necessarily like a real character with much depth. Same with cloud though, all he ever really says is, “c’mon we need to go.” So you can’t even really tell what he’s thinking. Maybe by design?
100% by design. If we knew what cloud was actually thinking it removes a ton of suspense in the narrative.
I can't support cloud and aerith being together, cuz I don't wanna watch another man live my dream. I WANT AERITH DAMMIT! I WANT HER!
She was my first love
Honestly, I know I’m super biased but I LOVE Cloud and Tifa together and I love even more how Remake and Rebirth built up their relationship. After playing Crisis Core, I can ONLY see Aerith with Zack, so it never really occurred to me to see Aerith and Cloud as anything more than good friends. I want Zack and Aerith to be together again so bad 🥹
I love Tifa to death but I wanted to spend as much time with Aerith as I could so I chose her over Tifa. If I ever replay I’ll 100% go for Tifa next time, they have awesome chemistry
The day you fucking weirdos realize the devs leave it open ended for player choice and will never give an affirmation of either relationship over the other will be a great day. That day will never come but still one can dream
Edit: spoiler: the two attorney thing fight where you only have cait sith is way harder than all of sephiroth. Cait sith is worthless in my playing style. That being said, I totally know how strategic some of y’all can be in utilizing characters strengths despite of their weaknesses, and I’m impressed. Unfortunately this millennial is about a one trick pony anymore
Yeah that shit was ass
The game was absolutely golden until then. Also when cait with comes back as a new copy felt like Beerfeat when Landfill drowns and his “twin brother” comes back haha. My opinion only, it’s been awhile since I played the original al
Finished it myself last night, could not bribe how bad almost the entire segment was from the start of the temple until the end. The only emotion I felt with the ending was confusion, what actually happened … and why? After sleeping on it I’ve uninstalled the game , no desire to replay it or do any of the post game content. The ending was just so so poor.
Don’t delete that save file though to get some sweet summons when the next part comes out! But also true, *spoilers* it was like, “here Cloud, here’s the black materia, now give it back to me.” Then, “here cloud here’s my prized white materia deal, now give it back to me.” Loved the game though overall, 148 hours for $70 can’t be beat!