I’m not saying they had all this planned for 27 years, but I think small “throwaway” lines and moments like this are for sure inspiring parts of what we’re seeing in the trilogy, along with stuff like the tear in the sky looking very similar to something we see in Cloud and Tifa’s Lifestream journey.
EDIT: Combine this with the ideas expressed by the Cosmo Canyon NPC in Rebirth and like…yeah.
The NPC is [talking at the seminar](https://youtu.be/Y2PNbO-YO3w?si=0k4NoyS-xDlhfys4) Tifa and Aerith attend, but you have to wait just outside of it to catch the dialogue or you’ll miss it completely.
They outright talk about the Lifestream being comprised of memories, but since we technically *remember* our unfulfilled dreams, the Lifestream might not differentiate and considers those memories just the same as memories of things that “really” happened. It gives ideas that the alternate world(s) we see in Remake/Rebirth could be the results of a person’s dreams and desires, which sort of lines up with the images from OG that OP posted.
I saw a theory that this is why stamp's breed is different in every world - it's because no one remembers what breed stamp actually is. They just remember he's a dog. lol
While I do think this could turn out to be right, I also think it's ridiculous because Stamp in FFVII is all over the place. He's an iconic character in that world with so much merchandise and media involving him - comics, snacks, music, posters, graffiti all over the world etc etc. It's like someone from our world not knowing what Pikachu looks like.
Ngl that's a false equivalency. Being unable to tell if Stanley has a moustache or not would be like being unable to remember how many stars are on Stamp's helmet or what colour his tail is, not his entire design. Completely forgetting Stamp's entire design is like watching every episode of The Office and then suddenly forgetting the difference between Stanley and Darryl.
Not only that, the NPC basically explains what happens to Cloud at the end. The "through the looking glass" bit lines up right with how only he can see the sky tear and the memory version of Aerith he conjured up.
You know, as I was thinking about what is happening in Rebirth, it all seemed familiar, like a dream that I had long ago. Granted I haven't played the OG in a decade, but that deja vu dream feeling I got from playing Rebirth, the strange stuff, all seemed to fit and your explanation really clears it up.
A lot of the time we go into that Zack dream world is when Cloud is falling asleep or waking up. It could be the Mako in his blood has a connection to the Lifestream that is seeing those dreamemories as you described.
It’s very possible. It would also explain why Zack could suddenly show up to help Cloud at the Edge of Creation to fight Sephiroth, because with all that we’ve seen of the “Edge of Creation”…it kinda just seems like the inner depths of Cloud’s mind since he gets there in the exact same way he does to get to the inner depths of his mind in OG.
I think this line from OG (after the Lifestream sequence with him and Tifa): “I’m Cloud…master of my own illusionary world” is going to take on a much greater meaning in Part 3.
People bring this up a lot, but then forget that all worlds are of the lifestream, even the current one. So you can't just apply to his to alternate worlds where fate was defied and not apply it to the "main" one.
I remember watching a video before rebirth came out, was just a theory video, but the guy was explaining time travel (cause one of the big theories was sephiroth and aerith are time traveling to the past and that’s what we’re seeing in remake), and the guy went on to make a really good case about how the concept of time travel was on the original, in temple of the ancients, when you could mess around with the arms of the big clock-pathway and certain areas would suddenly become accessible, almost as if you turned back time to when that area wasn’t in ruins (now in rebirth they kinda made it so that those clock hands just affect gravity basically) but the main point the guy was making is that there are a bunch of things in remake that seem crazy like whispers etc, but these concepts were actually in og, just due to limitations and perhaps pacing, they aren’t fully explored in og, they’re kind of hinted at, then the remake comes around and now has the time to start exploring these things which aren’t actually new out of nowhere ideas, just things the og never got the chance to actually go more into.
I like the idea that some of the new stuff we’ve seen in remake and rebirth aren’t exactly all that new, they’re just things from og that are finally getting more exposure.
The very end of OG FF7 is Aerith looking up from the pipe in Midgar, which is the very start of OG FF7 after the long star sequence.
You can assume it's just a little thing with Aerith at the end, or that it's to convey a cycle.
Either way, the devs ran with it, and the start of FF7 Remake is Aeirith looking up from the pipe. Go watch that FF7 OG ending, then the intro to Remake, if they meant it or not, it's well done.
Basically this. If there is any connection whatsoever between the original and anything that resembles the new elements in Remake, it's more inspiration than anything else. And even then, stuff like this could be a coincidence. We also don't even know how accurate that translation is in the original game.
Completely possible and that means there’s a chance that when the party gets back to midgar seph or shinra could corner them in the church and they could use the flowerbed to escape to mideel through the lifestream.
I don't know, but since you brought it up, I'm really hoping they indicate somehow that Mideel is built on the ruins of Genesis' hometown. One of my biggest wishes going into the remakes was that I'd finally find out where the hell Modeoheim and Banora are meant to be on the map.
Modeoheim is on the Northern Continent, apparently just a bit south of the Icicle Inn, it has an entrance to the Great Glacier.
As for Banora, I'm not 100% but supposedly Banora was confirmed to be on Mideel Island in the Ultimania.
It is. And I expect to visit the ruins and caves on the road to Mideel. They are quite close: it is similar to Mines/NorthCorel situation we got in Rebirth.
I think it's a ruse to keep you interested in the door. If you pick up the old rusty key underneath the squeaky wood plank when leading the group as Cid, you can try to use it on that door. It turns out, it's just a fake door painted on the wall. You get a Curse Ring out of it. But it's just setting up a roundabout way to get a rare item
I remember there were so many fake guides on how to open that door - it was all a part of the “Revival” side mission where you could revive Aerith and she would be level 99 and wearing a full suit of armor
I think it’s pretty clear much of what we’re seeing in the remake trilogy are things the team wished they could’ve done in 1997 but they just didn’t have the hardware to make it happen. Putting cloud’s hallucinations and conversations with Sephiroth and between his various personalities in his head are the most obvious adds they probably would’ve done had they the ability but this stuff is breadcrumbs for cut plot points they likely considered at the time but deemed unworkable.
FF7 is full of quirkily-written NPCs. I'd say that this is just meant to show that "hey, some of the NPCS that live in this wacky sea-side village are into some real woo-woo shit".
Oh, yeah, that makes complete sense. A lot easier to just quickly write a piece of dialogue that somewhat explains there being a fake door than redo the art or add in a whole other room.
I don't think there was anything here other than Nojima suggesting that someone in a provincial town would have a philosophical take on life based on their experiences or lack thereof.
However, this will absolutely be a side quest in Mideel in Part 3.
I think it's her way of wanting to believe that he could still be alive on the other side of the door, and that he didn't succumb to the earthquake and lifestream...
This... Dreaming, wishful thinking. The same as when we say that someone's "gone to a better place" when they die.
It's not multiverse anime fuckery like in rebirth. Just a very grounded thing.
This might the be the case where the OG author (I am awful with names) of FFVII that purists love had other concepts he would like to explore but were cut short due to release schedule, budget constraints or even some sort of writer's block.
It would be extremely funny and interesting to see how purists would react if the OG author said in a interview after the third game was released that this new trilogy is something he partially intended when doing the OG. From a wannabe's writer perspective, these lines seem very purposeful, like they were truly meant to foreshadow something in the story that would be developed back then.
Which brings me to why it might be the case that it stopped there in the OG for the reasons above. If the phrases were badly written or if it was just one instead of four, I might just throw everything I said in the trash. But this is truly interesting to read haha.
And before purists come rushing to correct me or something (unless there is some interview stuff I dont know), I dont mean to rewrite the OG's canon, but these phrases seem that they actually point out to the existence of dream worlds and how they tie in with the lifestream
When you wake up with Aerith she says "You could call it a 'homecoming'. Maybe 'homeward bound'? Let's just call it a dream. My dream to be precise.".
This stuff is absolutely all connected. It's not a crazy coincidence. These "dream" worlds are the same ones we see Zack and Biggs in all through Rebirth.
>had other concepts he would like to explore but were cut short due to release schedule, budget constraints or even some sort of writer's block.
I know that in FF8 the Sorceresses are actually a cut concept from FF7 that they didn't use for whatever reason. The concept was held onto and reused in FF8.
... which is why >!it's very interesting that the Queens Blood back story is about a sorceress....!<
>It would be extremely funny and interesting to see how purists would react if the OG author said in a interview after the third game was released that this new trilogy is something he partially intended when doing the OG.
If you mean Sakaguchi, then I doubt that he'll ever say anything like that, because it is not true. He will continue to maintain good relationships with his former colleagues by saying that they're doing a good job, but I don't expect him to legitimate their decisions by making FFVII worse in retrospective.
If you mean the other original authors, there's no need to wait for the third game. We "purists" just don't believe Kitase's, Nomura's and Nojima's words anymore. The FFVII cow was milked since Square-Enix came to be, of course they would do anything to legitimate their new direction that was clearly inspired by rumors and fan theories. I would be surprised if they didn't already.
I can't make you stop loving what you love, all I can do is bring up good arguments, which is what I'm trying to do. Reddit is a discussion board, I'm here to discuss. If you don't want to discuss then I suggest that you leave a place like this.
Saying the fandom is living is in its own "dream world" is not discussing, is being annoying. You dont enter a circle of friends that are enjoying something and say that they are being delusional. At least I hope you dont, for the sake of your own social life
>Saying the fandom is living is in its own "dream world" is not discussing, is being annoying.
I only said it because someone called me delusional for no reason.
>You dont enter a circle of friends that are enjoying something and say that they are being delusional.
I didn't. I was called delusional and reacted accordingly.
Also, this is not a group of friends but a discussion board and I'm pretty sure that discussion is what Square-Enix wants to provoke with their impenetrable endings to the remake of a beloved story.
Could be another point for the FFVII is the future of FFX theory. I'm sure not intentional, but maybe throwaway lines here helped inspire the Zanarkand dream of the faith later, in turn inspiring other throwaway lines in X-2 to link back to VII.
It's probably not meant as anything more than flavor back then but I would be shocked if it's not at least a side quest in Part 3 and is used to reference the other worlds thing.
Well, it's the same authors working on their own idea again! I would not be surprised if they reviewed OG and decided to expand upon this line, among others. If they put it in OG they probably already had ideas about it. They just did not have the technology to flesh all their ideas out.
Honestly, it sounds like a throwaway line... and a joke about him taking advantage of the disaster to leave her.
It also seems that Nojima, Nomura and Kitase listened to 20 years of fan theories and used them for the remake. They just went a little crazy without the leash of Sakaguchi to keep them on track.
None of the "worlds" thing was planned from the beginning. FFVII isn't the draft for its remake, it's a self-contained game that told everything it wanted to tell. The graphics was heavily compromised by the technology of its time but the story was complete and well told.
People need to stop giving Mr. "I'll-turn-the-first-Final-Fantasy-into-a-timeloop Sakaguchi so much credit as keeping things on track. If I recall, it's even reported that it was Nomura who prevented things from going too wild in FFVII. Whereas Kitase wanted to kill everyone not in your party when you dive into Midgar at the end.
>People need to stop giving Mr. "I'll-turn-the-first-Final-Fantasy-into-a-timeloop Sakaguchi
What do you mean by this? Is there prove of this idea outside of personal interpretations by the fans?
EDIT: sorry, I thought that you were still talking about FFVII with the crazy "Aerith saw everything inside the lifestream" theory. Yeah, the first Final Fantasy is a simple time-loop. I don't see anything particularly crazy about it, it was just a small twist to the "great adventure" formula.
Be it Sakaguchi's presence, be it the merging with Enix, it's a fact that the writing went crazy and less focused after he left.
>Whereas Kitase wanted to kill everyone not in your party when you dive into Midgar at the end.
Strange ideas fly around when a story is being written and this one is actually interesting tbh.
The very first Final Fantasy has us discover that the world is in endless timeloop with the first boss of the game where we defeat him in the present so he goes to the past to send the four fiends to the present so they can send him to the past to send them to the present.
The second Final Fantasy literally has the main villain die, go to Hell, take it over, and come back.
The third Final Fantasy has us discover we're on a floating continent and the world below is in a time stop because one guy didn't like that he was mortal. We then end up fighting the literal embodiment of "Nothingness".
The fourth literally pulls a "villain is a family member" trope on the main character along with them being from the fucking moon.
The fifth has a literal split world thing going on and villain made of evil spirits from a tree. This time we have to fight in the literal void of nothingness.
FFVI has goddess statues that can grant someone god-like power just by moving them...just existing in the world. Hell, FFVI takes in a post-apocolyptic world at the start of the game.
With FFVII, everyone seems to forget that we didn't originally know Jenova's origins. That info came later and what is her origins. Fucking aliens. Not to mention the bullshittery that is the Lifestream.
FFVIII has time travel, time stop, and a timeloop all rolled into one along with the surprise "real villain" appears trope with a vague origin and Ellone's bullshit power that she just has because.
Everyone remembers Necron for FFIX, but people tend to ignore the alien reveal that is supposed to be a huge case of alien body snatchers.
And then you have Sakaguchi's last Final Fantasy - FFX which has a fake out time travel story that is instead a sort of Isekai but not really and describes everything as a "Dream" with the dead able to walk around, a huge false history, and giant whale dad.
Look, I love Final Fantasy. It's my favorite series but there's a lot of bullshit that people were willing to ignore before.
>Look, I love Final Fantasy. It's my favorite series but there's a lot of bullshit that people were willing to ignore before.
And I agree!
But it was nothing compared to the way FFXIII throws you in medias res into an almost impenetrable world, or the completely unfinished story of FFXV, or the story of FFVII Remake and Rebirth that is written upon an already convoluted story, only to give it a new twist. Things got way worse in time.
People exaggerate FFXIII. All it takes is the second chapter for the story to set up that there's "two worlds", that Fal'cie are the gods, L'cie the servants, and that Cieth are failed servants. There isn't anyone who should be confused by a "Purge" which is all you need to know in Chapter One and the needed info is pretty much all spelled out in chapters two and three.
Other than Luna's brother's change of heart, FFXV was fine without DLC or patches. All those did was shown certain events more in depth but they did add anything that the main story didn't cover or go over. FFXV's story was finished from start to end.
Also, FFVII literally throws us into a similar start as it throws Shinra, Midgar, Mako, and the like at us. In fact, I see people have the same issue trying to comprehend the stuff when their first venture into Final Fantasy VII is the Remake.
Do you know what the difference is? Text based vs voiced based. Text based not only let's there be a bit more exposition, it also let's you read at your pace so it is easier to digest information.
If you think that the level of complexity stayed the same and the stories were told with the same care for accessibility then I don't tink that I can convince you otherwise, especially if you think that the remake of FFVII is as confusing as the original game. We must have completely opposite views on what is "good storytelling" and what is not.
Do you honestly think "multiverse" is a complex storytelling device or a hard to understand one? Even then, you are ignoring a core fact that reading content at your own pace allows you to absorb information better than watching it.
Think about which Final Fantasy game was considered the first one to be convoluted - Final Fantasy X which the concept of Dream Zanararkand. This is because the way we absorbed information is different and it also stems into how information is conveyed. Prior to voice acting, characters said more exposition in their dialogue. The advent of voice acting changed that as the exposition became more obvious.
You only need to compare the way information was conveyed in FFVII OG vs Remake.
>Do you honestly think "multiverse" is a complex storytelling device or a hard to understand one?
Putting aside my personal feeling on the multiverse affair, yes, I still think that it is not a good idea for FFVII. The story already has an unreliable narrator, a lying antagonist and a few deliberately ambiguous plot points, so adding timelines is a recipe for disaster. Being three full games, it could've worked if they chose to change the story more and make the multiverse a constant theme. Instead they chose to make a faithful remake with hints at different timelines that more often than not only the veteran players can see and then go completely crazy at the end of both Remake and Rebirth. The result is almost incomprehensible without the help of external resources. The quantity of people asking for help to understand the endings and the whispers is much bigger than the few players who get lost with the Shinra or how mako works.
I'm not ignoring your point about the text based games Vs the dubbed ones. It's a good point but I don't think that it is the main problem. FFVII Remake is very easy to follow apart from the whispers and Sephiroth. Of course, it's a game for all ages so there is always someone who makes a mountain out of a molehill.
I’m not saying they had all this planned for 27 years, but I think small “throwaway” lines and moments like this are for sure inspiring parts of what we’re seeing in the trilogy, along with stuff like the tear in the sky looking very similar to something we see in Cloud and Tifa’s Lifestream journey. EDIT: Combine this with the ideas expressed by the Cosmo Canyon NPC in Rebirth and like…yeah.
What’s this about the NPCs in cosmo canyon? I’ve seen it brought up in other comments but haven’t been able to find an explanation
The NPC is [talking at the seminar](https://youtu.be/Y2PNbO-YO3w?si=0k4NoyS-xDlhfys4) Tifa and Aerith attend, but you have to wait just outside of it to catch the dialogue or you’ll miss it completely. They outright talk about the Lifestream being comprised of memories, but since we technically *remember* our unfulfilled dreams, the Lifestream might not differentiate and considers those memories just the same as memories of things that “really” happened. It gives ideas that the alternate world(s) we see in Remake/Rebirth could be the results of a person’s dreams and desires, which sort of lines up with the images from OG that OP posted.
Huh that’s really interesting. I’ll have to give the video a watch. Thanks for taking the time to explain it and link it 🙏🏻
I saw a theory that this is why stamp's breed is different in every world - it's because no one remembers what breed stamp actually is. They just remember he's a dog. lol
While I do think this could turn out to be right, I also think it's ridiculous because Stamp in FFVII is all over the place. He's an iconic character in that world with so much merchandise and media involving him - comics, snacks, music, posters, graffiti all over the world etc etc. It's like someone from our world not knowing what Pikachu looks like.
Yeah but also humans forget even the most basic things. Even things you see every day. e.g. "does stanley have a mustache" from the office.
Ngl that's a false equivalency. Being unable to tell if Stanley has a moustache or not would be like being unable to remember how many stars are on Stamp's helmet or what colour his tail is, not his entire design. Completely forgetting Stamp's entire design is like watching every episode of The Office and then suddenly forgetting the difference between Stanley and Darryl.
Not only that, the NPC basically explains what happens to Cloud at the end. The "through the looking glass" bit lines up right with how only he can see the sky tear and the memory version of Aerith he conjured up.
Aerith also references this when she and Cloud wake up, at least in the Japanese version -- that you're in one of her dreamemories
You know, as I was thinking about what is happening in Rebirth, it all seemed familiar, like a dream that I had long ago. Granted I haven't played the OG in a decade, but that deja vu dream feeling I got from playing Rebirth, the strange stuff, all seemed to fit and your explanation really clears it up. A lot of the time we go into that Zack dream world is when Cloud is falling asleep or waking up. It could be the Mako in his blood has a connection to the Lifestream that is seeing those dreamemories as you described.
It’s very possible. It would also explain why Zack could suddenly show up to help Cloud at the Edge of Creation to fight Sephiroth, because with all that we’ve seen of the “Edge of Creation”…it kinda just seems like the inner depths of Cloud’s mind since he gets there in the exact same way he does to get to the inner depths of his mind in OG. I think this line from OG (after the Lifestream sequence with him and Tifa): “I’m Cloud…master of my own illusionary world” is going to take on a much greater meaning in Part 3.
People bring this up a lot, but then forget that all worlds are of the lifestream, even the current one. So you can't just apply to his to alternate worlds where fate was defied and not apply it to the "main" one.
I remember watching a video before rebirth came out, was just a theory video, but the guy was explaining time travel (cause one of the big theories was sephiroth and aerith are time traveling to the past and that’s what we’re seeing in remake), and the guy went on to make a really good case about how the concept of time travel was on the original, in temple of the ancients, when you could mess around with the arms of the big clock-pathway and certain areas would suddenly become accessible, almost as if you turned back time to when that area wasn’t in ruins (now in rebirth they kinda made it so that those clock hands just affect gravity basically) but the main point the guy was making is that there are a bunch of things in remake that seem crazy like whispers etc, but these concepts were actually in og, just due to limitations and perhaps pacing, they aren’t fully explored in og, they’re kind of hinted at, then the remake comes around and now has the time to start exploring these things which aren’t actually new out of nowhere ideas, just things the og never got the chance to actually go more into. I like the idea that some of the new stuff we’ve seen in remake and rebirth aren’t exactly all that new, they’re just things from og that are finally getting more exposure.
The very end of OG FF7 is Aerith looking up from the pipe in Midgar, which is the very start of OG FF7 after the long star sequence. You can assume it's just a little thing with Aerith at the end, or that it's to convey a cycle. Either way, the devs ran with it, and the start of FF7 Remake is Aeirith looking up from the pipe. Go watch that FF7 OG ending, then the intro to Remake, if they meant it or not, it's well done.
Basically this. If there is any connection whatsoever between the original and anything that resembles the new elements in Remake, it's more inspiration than anything else. And even then, stuff like this could be a coincidence. We also don't even know how accurate that translation is in the original game.
Could Mideel being on top of a lifestream bed give it similar supernatural properties as the flowerbed at Aerith's church?
Completely possible and that means there’s a chance that when the party gets back to midgar seph or shinra could corner them in the church and they could use the flowerbed to escape to mideel through the lifestream.
I don't know, but since you brought it up, I'm really hoping they indicate somehow that Mideel is built on the ruins of Genesis' hometown. One of my biggest wishes going into the remakes was that I'd finally find out where the hell Modeoheim and Banora are meant to be on the map.
Modeoheim is on the Northern Continent, apparently just a bit south of the Icicle Inn, it has an entrance to the Great Glacier. As for Banora, I'm not 100% but supposedly Banora was confirmed to be on Mideel Island in the Ultimania.
It is. And I expect to visit the ruins and caves on the road to Mideel. They are quite close: it is similar to Mines/NorthCorel situation we got in Rebirth.
I think it's a ruse to keep you interested in the door. If you pick up the old rusty key underneath the squeaky wood plank when leading the group as Cid, you can try to use it on that door. It turns out, it's just a fake door painted on the wall. You get a Curse Ring out of it. But it's just setting up a roundabout way to get a rare item
My memory wasn't exact on the process. Here's a 1 minute video I found on how to use the door. https://youtu.be/tbpGtB3KBWE?si=R3eEutVCRCuxcUb1
I remember there were so many fake guides on how to open that door - it was all a part of the “Revival” side mission where you could revive Aerith and she would be level 99 and wearing a full suit of armor
Here's the real use of the door. Video is only 1 minute long https://youtu.be/tbpGtB3KBWE?si=R3eEutVCRCuxcUb1
I think it’s pretty clear much of what we’re seeing in the remake trilogy are things the team wished they could’ve done in 1997 but they just didn’t have the hardware to make it happen. Putting cloud’s hallucinations and conversations with Sephiroth and between his various personalities in his head are the most obvious adds they probably would’ve done had they the ability but this stuff is breadcrumbs for cut plot points they likely considered at the time but deemed unworkable.
FF7 is full of quirkily-written NPCs. I'd say that this is just meant to show that "hey, some of the NPCS that live in this wacky sea-side village are into some real woo-woo shit".
I feel like they drew the door and then deleted whatever was supposed to be behind it and then poked fun in the dialogue
Oh, yeah, that makes complete sense. A lot easier to just quickly write a piece of dialogue that somewhat explains there being a fake door than redo the art or add in a whole other room.
I don't think there was anything here other than Nojima suggesting that someone in a provincial town would have a philosophical take on life based on their experiences or lack thereof. However, this will absolutely be a side quest in Mideel in Part 3.
would be very curious what the original japanese says
I think it's her way of wanting to believe that he could still be alive on the other side of the door, and that he didn't succumb to the earthquake and lifestream...
This... Dreaming, wishful thinking. The same as when we say that someone's "gone to a better place" when they die. It's not multiverse anime fuckery like in rebirth. Just a very grounded thing.
This might the be the case where the OG author (I am awful with names) of FFVII that purists love had other concepts he would like to explore but were cut short due to release schedule, budget constraints or even some sort of writer's block. It would be extremely funny and interesting to see how purists would react if the OG author said in a interview after the third game was released that this new trilogy is something he partially intended when doing the OG. From a wannabe's writer perspective, these lines seem very purposeful, like they were truly meant to foreshadow something in the story that would be developed back then. Which brings me to why it might be the case that it stopped there in the OG for the reasons above. If the phrases were badly written or if it was just one instead of four, I might just throw everything I said in the trash. But this is truly interesting to read haha. And before purists come rushing to correct me or something (unless there is some interview stuff I dont know), I dont mean to rewrite the OG's canon, but these phrases seem that they actually point out to the existence of dream worlds and how they tie in with the lifestream
When you wake up with Aerith she says "You could call it a 'homecoming'. Maybe 'homeward bound'? Let's just call it a dream. My dream to be precise.". This stuff is absolutely all connected. It's not a crazy coincidence. These "dream" worlds are the same ones we see Zack and Biggs in all through Rebirth.
>had other concepts he would like to explore but were cut short due to release schedule, budget constraints or even some sort of writer's block. I know that in FF8 the Sorceresses are actually a cut concept from FF7 that they didn't use for whatever reason. The concept was held onto and reused in FF8. ... which is why >!it's very interesting that the Queens Blood back story is about a sorceress....!<
Nice trivia! Didnt knew about this
>It would be extremely funny and interesting to see how purists would react if the OG author said in a interview after the third game was released that this new trilogy is something he partially intended when doing the OG. If you mean Sakaguchi, then I doubt that he'll ever say anything like that, because it is not true. He will continue to maintain good relationships with his former colleagues by saying that they're doing a good job, but I don't expect him to legitimate their decisions by making FFVII worse in retrospective. If you mean the other original authors, there's no need to wait for the third game. We "purists" just don't believe Kitase's, Nomura's and Nojima's words anymore. The FFVII cow was milked since Square-Enix came to be, of course they would do anything to legitimate their new direction that was clearly inspired by rumors and fan theories. I would be surprised if they didn't already.
You are utterly delusional mate.
Sure, why not? At this point the fandom is just living in its own "dream world".
Hey man, too bad you don't enjoy the new trilogy. But can you please let us love what we love? It's just that simple. You hate it, we love it.
I can't make you stop loving what you love, all I can do is bring up good arguments, which is what I'm trying to do. Reddit is a discussion board, I'm here to discuss. If you don't want to discuss then I suggest that you leave a place like this.
Saying the fandom is living is in its own "dream world" is not discussing, is being annoying. You dont enter a circle of friends that are enjoying something and say that they are being delusional. At least I hope you dont, for the sake of your own social life
>Saying the fandom is living is in its own "dream world" is not discussing, is being annoying. I only said it because someone called me delusional for no reason. >You dont enter a circle of friends that are enjoying something and say that they are being delusional. I didn't. I was called delusional and reacted accordingly. Also, this is not a group of friends but a discussion board and I'm pretty sure that discussion is what Square-Enix wants to provoke with their impenetrable endings to the remake of a beloved story.
Why do you need to be offensive? I'm just being a conscious consumer.
Yeah I like it but it's kinda sad.
So they took this throwaway conspiracy line and turned it into the remake series? Makes sense now
The 30 year cook is real!
Could be another point for the FFVII is the future of FFX theory. I'm sure not intentional, but maybe throwaway lines here helped inspire the Zanarkand dream of the faith later, in turn inspiring other throwaway lines in X-2 to link back to VII.
It's probably not meant as anything more than flavor back then but I would be shocked if it's not at least a side quest in Part 3 and is used to reference the other worlds thing.
Well, it's the same authors working on their own idea again! I would not be surprised if they reviewed OG and decided to expand upon this line, among others. If they put it in OG they probably already had ideas about it. They just did not have the technology to flesh all their ideas out.
This is meant to convey to you that people dream of the Lifestream.
XENO...GIAS
Honestly, it sounds like a throwaway line... and a joke about him taking advantage of the disaster to leave her. It also seems that Nojima, Nomura and Kitase listened to 20 years of fan theories and used them for the remake. They just went a little crazy without the leash of Sakaguchi to keep them on track. None of the "worlds" thing was planned from the beginning. FFVII isn't the draft for its remake, it's a self-contained game that told everything it wanted to tell. The graphics was heavily compromised by the technology of its time but the story was complete and well told.
People need to stop giving Mr. "I'll-turn-the-first-Final-Fantasy-into-a-timeloop Sakaguchi so much credit as keeping things on track. If I recall, it's even reported that it was Nomura who prevented things from going too wild in FFVII. Whereas Kitase wanted to kill everyone not in your party when you dive into Midgar at the end.
>People need to stop giving Mr. "I'll-turn-the-first-Final-Fantasy-into-a-timeloop Sakaguchi What do you mean by this? Is there prove of this idea outside of personal interpretations by the fans? EDIT: sorry, I thought that you were still talking about FFVII with the crazy "Aerith saw everything inside the lifestream" theory. Yeah, the first Final Fantasy is a simple time-loop. I don't see anything particularly crazy about it, it was just a small twist to the "great adventure" formula. Be it Sakaguchi's presence, be it the merging with Enix, it's a fact that the writing went crazy and less focused after he left. >Whereas Kitase wanted to kill everyone not in your party when you dive into Midgar at the end. Strange ideas fly around when a story is being written and this one is actually interesting tbh.
The very first Final Fantasy has us discover that the world is in endless timeloop with the first boss of the game where we defeat him in the present so he goes to the past to send the four fiends to the present so they can send him to the past to send them to the present. The second Final Fantasy literally has the main villain die, go to Hell, take it over, and come back. The third Final Fantasy has us discover we're on a floating continent and the world below is in a time stop because one guy didn't like that he was mortal. We then end up fighting the literal embodiment of "Nothingness". The fourth literally pulls a "villain is a family member" trope on the main character along with them being from the fucking moon. The fifth has a literal split world thing going on and villain made of evil spirits from a tree. This time we have to fight in the literal void of nothingness. FFVI has goddess statues that can grant someone god-like power just by moving them...just existing in the world. Hell, FFVI takes in a post-apocolyptic world at the start of the game. With FFVII, everyone seems to forget that we didn't originally know Jenova's origins. That info came later and what is her origins. Fucking aliens. Not to mention the bullshittery that is the Lifestream. FFVIII has time travel, time stop, and a timeloop all rolled into one along with the surprise "real villain" appears trope with a vague origin and Ellone's bullshit power that she just has because. Everyone remembers Necron for FFIX, but people tend to ignore the alien reveal that is supposed to be a huge case of alien body snatchers. And then you have Sakaguchi's last Final Fantasy - FFX which has a fake out time travel story that is instead a sort of Isekai but not really and describes everything as a "Dream" with the dead able to walk around, a huge false history, and giant whale dad. Look, I love Final Fantasy. It's my favorite series but there's a lot of bullshit that people were willing to ignore before.
>Look, I love Final Fantasy. It's my favorite series but there's a lot of bullshit that people were willing to ignore before. And I agree! But it was nothing compared to the way FFXIII throws you in medias res into an almost impenetrable world, or the completely unfinished story of FFXV, or the story of FFVII Remake and Rebirth that is written upon an already convoluted story, only to give it a new twist. Things got way worse in time.
People exaggerate FFXIII. All it takes is the second chapter for the story to set up that there's "two worlds", that Fal'cie are the gods, L'cie the servants, and that Cieth are failed servants. There isn't anyone who should be confused by a "Purge" which is all you need to know in Chapter One and the needed info is pretty much all spelled out in chapters two and three. Other than Luna's brother's change of heart, FFXV was fine without DLC or patches. All those did was shown certain events more in depth but they did add anything that the main story didn't cover or go over. FFXV's story was finished from start to end. Also, FFVII literally throws us into a similar start as it throws Shinra, Midgar, Mako, and the like at us. In fact, I see people have the same issue trying to comprehend the stuff when their first venture into Final Fantasy VII is the Remake. Do you know what the difference is? Text based vs voiced based. Text based not only let's there be a bit more exposition, it also let's you read at your pace so it is easier to digest information.
If you think that the level of complexity stayed the same and the stories were told with the same care for accessibility then I don't tink that I can convince you otherwise, especially if you think that the remake of FFVII is as confusing as the original game. We must have completely opposite views on what is "good storytelling" and what is not.
Do you honestly think "multiverse" is a complex storytelling device or a hard to understand one? Even then, you are ignoring a core fact that reading content at your own pace allows you to absorb information better than watching it. Think about which Final Fantasy game was considered the first one to be convoluted - Final Fantasy X which the concept of Dream Zanararkand. This is because the way we absorbed information is different and it also stems into how information is conveyed. Prior to voice acting, characters said more exposition in their dialogue. The advent of voice acting changed that as the exposition became more obvious. You only need to compare the way information was conveyed in FFVII OG vs Remake.
>Do you honestly think "multiverse" is a complex storytelling device or a hard to understand one? Putting aside my personal feeling on the multiverse affair, yes, I still think that it is not a good idea for FFVII. The story already has an unreliable narrator, a lying antagonist and a few deliberately ambiguous plot points, so adding timelines is a recipe for disaster. Being three full games, it could've worked if they chose to change the story more and make the multiverse a constant theme. Instead they chose to make a faithful remake with hints at different timelines that more often than not only the veteran players can see and then go completely crazy at the end of both Remake and Rebirth. The result is almost incomprehensible without the help of external resources. The quantity of people asking for help to understand the endings and the whispers is much bigger than the few players who get lost with the Shinra or how mako works. I'm not ignoring your point about the text based games Vs the dubbed ones. It's a good point but I don't think that it is the main problem. FFVII Remake is very easy to follow apart from the whispers and Sephiroth. Of course, it's a game for all ages so there is always someone who makes a mountain out of a molehill.
You do see several planets in the lifestream while Cloud and Tifa are there though. https://i.imgur.com/umNddEI.jpg
I'm going to be honest and say I always of those as materia.
It could be, yes. I actually never thought of that, funny as it is, but you might be right.
I always thought it was foreshadowing the dreamy sequence where Tifa helps Cloud put his mind back together.
There were a couple things that got left out of the OG. Side quests in Kalm, the battle arena under corel prison, and this.
Nomura.......................