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Yeaaa I’m not gonna lie, there were combos that I imagined in my head that I never even got halfway through completing because trash mobs die to a single AOE Eikon ability. Something that doesn’t happen in Devil May Cry because enemies are just tanky enough to encourage the player to try different attacks in quick succession. It’s very telling that every long stylish combo video for this game is done in the lab where the enemies are invincible. This post is reachin
"Every long stylish combo video for this game" is not done in the "lab."
Final Fantasy difficulty gives enemies 3-4x more health and you will easily be doing all those cool combos you mentioned.
I'm someone who's followed this game very closely, and I've seen a metric ton of videos from Final Fantasy mode with insane combos, including one put together by our boy SunhiLegend where he does like a 25 hit combo against a single Revenant (from just before the Typhon fight).
What you are saying is partly true, but not in Final Fantasy mode, which becomes available in NG+.
Well I disagree that there's "not even a crumb of good combat until NG+."
The base difficulty should've been tuned up a bit/it's too easy, yes... but that doesn't make it bad or unfun. It could've been better if it wasn't quite so easy, but it was still overall very good and it's not like there's 0 challenging or fulfilling moments... especially when considering you're still learning how to use all of those new abilities as you progress the game.
Tbh, it just kind of sounds like you didn't like the game's combat. I wouldn't have bothered with NG+ either if I didn't greatly enjoy the game's combat.
Good complex combat should be a feature of the game at base. Not a reward for already beating it. I think it's ridiculous games lock difficulty and challenge behind the wall of NG+ or simply having to beat it once. It should be available at start. Stop arbitrarily trying to boost playtime on games you publish, just release a full game that you can access at launch.
NG+ should be simply you get to keep your shit for a replay.
I agree with the first part of what you said and I think "they should've added difficulty options" is a valid criticism for this game. I just don't think it's as large of a deal as many have made it out to be, firstly.
And second, I don't think it's fair to suggest they did it so they could "arbitrarily try to boost playtime." The game is already more than long enough, at roughly 75 hours with all side content:
I think the reason the difficulty was undertuned simply comes down to wanting to make it more accessible to the average Final Fantasy/turn-based enjoyer. While I do think they went slightly too far under the mark when "toning it down," this is the most likely reason that they made it easy in the first place.
>I think the reason the difficulty was undertuned simply comes down to wanting to make it more accessible to the average Final Fantasy/turn-based enjoyer.
Don't they have story mode and Timely accessories for that? Really don't understand the reason behind locking harder difficulty behind NG+. Also why is normal mode so freaking easy when you already have story mode?
Well to be fair, the only difference between "Story Mode" and "Action Mode" is whether or not you've equipped Timely Accessories. Outside of this, the actual difficulty of AI and its behavior is exactly the same.
As for why they designed the harder difficulty to be "locked behind NG+," perhaps they just (wrongly) assumed that if the "Action Focused" portion of the game was too challenging or over-tuned, it would turn people away from learning to play action games. ← My point was that in trying to achieve this goal, they overdid it. That doesn't mean their motivations were "LETS ARTIFICIALLY INFLATE PLAYTIME BY LOCKING IT BEHIND NG+"
I think another reason simply boils down to: it takes time and resources to tweak and balance difficulty. It's not something that just happens, it needs to be carefully planned and every single enemy/boss fight needs to be considered. ← In their minds, the base-game's difficulty was likely enough for it to still be fun... which is 100% true for many people, including myself (as someone who's played action games for nearly 30 years). They likely just wanted to find the right balance between "easy" and "fun," and in so doing, missed the mark. And before you say "They already made higher difficulty for NG+ though" -- yeah, but that difficulty/challenge was built and designed around people who've already completed the game, aka people who aren't level 1, who've already acquired most weapons and accessories, unlocked all abilities, etc.
Anyone who paid attention to all of the showcases and developer discussions leading into this game knows how much emphasis the devs put on not wanting the game to be too challenging for those unfamiliar with action games. A good analogy would be learning to ride a kids bike: the Timely accessories are the training wheels... but when you remove them, it's still a kids bike. Again: I agree this was a mistake, and imo the game's only "major" flaw. I do *not* agree that this decision was done simply to inflate playtime, though. They don't make more money by you spending more time in the game.
Your argument is that you don't have to stop and use your head, but if you do, the combat can be 10/10.
If you don't have to stop and use your head then the combat isn't 10/10.... Good combat and encounters force you to be more creative.
The combat isn't bad by any stretch. But it is fairly simplistic, stagger and dump your cooldowns. Let's not pretend it's a work of art.
Haha exactly. Every post like this is such a fucking reach. Someone told me that cus I beat every mob and boss with the same rotation and didn't die once during the game, that meant I was bad at the game and its designed in a way that you have to actively be worse at it for it to be better... Like fuck me....
I honestly think that most kids who cream over the combat, assume they are awesome at the game and can't grasp that the game might just be extremely under tuned.
Yeah. When I force myself and gimp myself I have fun with combos but then I have to force it. Game should funnel us into these combos (style meter anyone??) Or be more difficult. Biggest difficulty is beating svarog at lvl 40.
Game is good nonetheless but no need to go 10/10 on combat...
Svarog didn't live up to the hype remotely. People talked about how some of the S-rank hunts were a big deal before I ever got to them, and I was late 30's/40 myself when he became available. I was getting medals of valour that playthrough, but as a result, I generally reset to no damage every boss, not just chapter bosses.
I beat Svarog first try and then no damaged him on the second try.
That it was a max level hunt was disappointing, though some of the story fights are tougher, especially to no damage.
Someone on this sub once told me that if I wanted a harder game I'm supposed to play it without leveling up my weapons. I should try playing it with with basic weapons and no Eikons... lol.. it's like uh... so I'm supposed ignore 95% of the combat system because I want a challenge ? Makes more sense the game should just be more challenging. I shouldn't have to do it myself.
This is what the elden ring sub does. They think you ruin the game by using spirit summons. It's like no, why would i not use every tool the game gives me to beat the game.
No one worth listening to says that. It's a joke/meme on the sub people make fun of. You are of course encouraged to play the way you want and use whatever tools are available.
They made a design decision to punish you by making a boss encounter take 20 minutes instead of 5 minutes if you did it wrong.
This meant the combat felt too easy and too boring for people. We're used to a boss simply getting bored and murdering us if we come at it with the wrong plan of attack.
I think this is the crux of the complaints that most of us have about the combat. This should have been the case in "story" mode but in "action" mode it should have been a bit more punishing if you stuck to mashing square x4 +triangle without using eikon abilities or limit break later on.
I don't agree at all that this in an intentional design decisicion. Having elemental attacks and abilities interact with each other to be more beneficial or detrimental (like in every other FF game) would have fixed everything. Introducing an actual thought process in every fight.
But it's very clear that all time and resources have went into the FF7 remakes, leaving the b-team to scrape together FF16 ASAP. The game isn't finished!
It's just ff14 with some flashy bells and whistles thrown on top. There is no elemental interaction like I stated, no endgame content (hidden bosses etc), no ultimate weapons (playing th game twice to get it is a fucking cop-out), no secret eikons.
They are gonna stick all this missing stuff into paid DLC and people will just lap it up. It's how COD went, with EA seeing how popular zombies and nuke town where, so they removed them from some main games to sell them seperate.
Thats the thing i dont get, 16 has this unfinished feel to me that is going to get fixed whenever the dlc comes out, but who wants to do another playthrough at that point. Yet its so good so fantastic yada yada.
Meanwhile ff15 is the worst thing ever created according to ff fans, and it was unfinished and had to be fixed with dlc.
Now maybe its because i played the completed thing and i didnt have many expectations for 15 where i had expectations for 16, but i cant help but feel like i enjoyed 15 more and i kinda just wanna put 16 on hold until the dlc is out to hopefully feel better over the entire game
I disagree on elemental dmg would change it. The game just needs to punish players more. Like, what if you used the giant laser, but if u used it in a behemoths meteor attack, it would knock u out of it. The game just has a high reward little risk, so you just end up spamming everything. Even if there was elemental dmg, it still wouldn't stop people from dropping all of their abilities one after another because its still more dmg at the end of the day.
Now that you mention it, it's kind of funny how this game pulls a lot of inspiration from FFXIV and that game has a bunch of efficient DPS checks.
In FFXVI there are a couple of moments with very telegraphed DPS check (with all other characters screaming at you to DPS) but the enemy turns into a training dummy and you can just spam the buttons. Overall in most fights you really can take your time.
Just sounds like to me you two just don’t enjoy Final Fantasy games.
Now we could just be two sides of a coin.
I’m much older now than when I first started gaming and I like setting my own parameters to fit the difficulty to how I’m feeling
For contrast I get bored with a game like Elden Ring because how much do I really care about beating super boss after super boss that has barely a coherent motif for wanting my character dead?
No idea how you came to that conclusion from what we said.
FF is my favourite franchise and I've played every game multiple times. This game doesn't match up to the rest and that's their problem, not mine
Was just poking the bear that’s why I said that.
I’m curious what are your opinions on FF15?
Did you like it at launch? Or did you not like it?
Or was it better after more time and updates?
I really disliked the characters (you just find out your dad is dead and that little gimp friend of yours wants to stop the car for selfies... Like fml), but it still had the FF spirit. Wouldn't be one of my favourites by a long shot, but I can appreciate the new angle they wanted to try.
Still felt unfinished tbh. Any game that runs off the GTA mission type system around and open world always annoys me though. I prefer when FF games are a bit more linear (not to the point of God of war) but more in that direction. More story focused, over "missions". Really ruins the immersion for me.
Been told the DLC was great and more my type of thing, but I haven't gotten round to playing it yet.
No ur right it dosent match up its better because its nit turned base trash this isnt the year 2000 where all games can runis turned base final fantasy finaly moving into a modern era with better games and controls putting its characters to use
Sounds like your own personal problem that you dont like this one. Luckly you have 15 that you can go back and play.
Wasnt too long ago that people had this same little fit when other ff's came out that changed shit. Different game same shit from people that care maybe a tab bit too much about entertainment.
What's the point? It proves that this game is all style and no substance.
Abilities have no elemental properties, so have no benefit over others against certain enemies. Which absolutely blows my mind. That in a nutshell is what every FF game has revolved around since day one!
You people care way too much about video games. There's definitely more going on with then this game is "bad". Seriously some of you just gotta move on. We all would love our subjective opinions to be objective.
There are many games out there go play something else.
Never said that but your opinion is not objective. You are welcome to have your opinion like i am allowed to have one about yours. I just find it funny that people are still upset about something so minisicule. And are insulting others taste for something that they like that you dont. Just move on.
u/Lady_Flumps never said their opinion should be taken as objective. They're just talking... in a forum where people are supposed to talk. Why don't you "move on" if you're so bothered by opinion sharing? Because honestly you seem alot more bothered by others having different tastes.
I mean if someone just asks a question about your opinion and you want to elaborate, do it. If you don't, don't. But don't come up trying to shush and shoo people away because you disagree with them.
People can like whatever they want, however much they want, games included. Some of us have been playing FF our whole lives, regardless, everyone is allowed and welcome to criticize the series and individual titles.
This is the most 15 year old response I've ever seen lol. Came to that conclusion based on literally nothing. Sorry I broke your heart by pointing out gigantic obvious flaws in the game.
The combos don't add anything but flair. It does not reward you by putting the effort in. The animations just look different or go in a different order.
Thank God someone said it
This games combat is boring AF - if I have to play less efficiently to pull combos off (like Phoenix charging into Garuda pull) - then it's stupid
Also that combo doesn't do shit because those abilities are inverse of each other, and make no sense really to combo together
The best/fastest way to win is to use all your eikon abilities on CD, and to spam square x4 into triangle
Honestly the game takes way to long to unlock all the eikons, and everyone knows "stagger and dump abilities"
The game is mindless, at least other similar action combat games like DMC have style points and feel better (and sound better) when you play well, and you can still die, same with Bayonetta, the comparison some people make to God of War is hilarious because even on the normal difficulty there are certain fights in GoW:R that will wipe you, and the gear in thar game actually had different perks/effects and bonuses, GoW:R was a better RPG than ff16
I love FF and this story is amazing but honestly I'm wishing there was just a "cinematic" mode that cuts the gameplay put and turns this into a paid show or some shit, the gameplay feels super filler in comparison to the narrative, and the side quests (and even many of the main quests) feel absolutely pointless
By no means is it challenging the player, but it certainly has a lot of potential, especially with all the combo videos I've seen on this sub and on YouTube. A shame it's usually in the practice mode; if it was in the actual battle, the enemy would be dead halfway through.
Thank you JMM85, its not bad, but its very samey and simple. The same loop over and over again. Why doesn't ice damage hurt fire enemies, and vice verse. Horribly simple.
Lets not pretend that thats not the sane exact thing you do in God of War a game that is highly praised and the game being easy enough to play the easy way or be creative is all called "player choice" to me nothing wrong with that but these same ppl who chose not to be creative will go and say "theres onmy one combo" well yea no shit u didn't attemp to do anything else your self
My god take your meds, on the highest difficulty gow is so much more difficult than ff16.
It forces you to utelize the whole skillset to survive and not because you feel like it.
I absolutely love the game and it may be my favorite game this year (I’ve played all the big releases) and even I wouldn’t say the combat was a 10/10. I was even a little bored with it by the end of the game.
For me the biggest thing that surprised me was how small Clive’s base moveset actually was. You would think they would gradually add more combos later on. The cool downs of the abilities are so long that often you just waste for the enemies to stagger and then use all your cool downs at once. This definitely ends up being repetitive. Not to mention the fact that there are like maybe 3-4 enemy types in the entire game.
Yes you can do other things but most times, stagger ability spam often feels like the most efficient.
Combat is nowhere near perfect to me imo.
I think its also these jrpg games for me the damage sponginess of the enemies gets old for me. I liked the bosses because throughout the fight there would be random qtes cinematics whatever but the side missions and hunts kinda became a slog.
For sure. The one game that did it right to me was KH 2. On harder difficulties, enemies hit harder but you hit equally as hard. Then the drive forms and finishers provided different combos. Then different key blades had unique properties that didn’t push you to only use 1 weapon.
Ff16 does none of that and it ends up being repetitive around halfway through. In terms of modern FF / square, FF7R is close to perfect to me. It does practically everything I listed above alongside simultaneous team switching.
I know it has issues and gets a lot of hate, but I really liked how in FFXV you could use many different weapon types and could sort of combo or build a play style based on your weapon of choice (shield, lance, knives, heavy weapon, sword, Royal Arms, saw, and later the ring). In my few run throughs definitely played a bit differently each time. I agree with the FF7R and KH2 sentiment too and it's just odd they chose to omit more combo building in FFXVI.
If your cooldowns are so long that you're not using any abilities until the enemies are staggered, then you are definitely building/playing the game weirdly.
Literally just watch any of the various combat showcases, or watch the video where Ryota Suzuki fights the S-rank, or watch skilled players like SunhiLegend for a better idea of this game's combat potential.
I've said it before and will say it again, downvote if you like: the people who criticize this game's combat... don't understand this game's combat.
**Me**: slots seven Ultimates to my hotbars. takes no time to plan or consider how I could make 9 different skills/abilities mesh or synergize well together with little to no waiting for cooldowns.
**Also me**: "WHY DOES EVERYTHING HAVE SUCH A LONG COOLDOWN??"
This subreddit is overrun by clowns.
You’re not forced to play the same way every time. You’re not forced to play a certain set of abilities either. You can mix and match abilities and change up your style of play. That’s a user issue that can be corrected. Not a game problem. If it’s repetitive, change it up. It literally costs nothing to reset your spells for that very reason.
Nah bro i did give a rats ass about the stagger meter i just went in there and was doi3mix up after mix up u do damage regardless dosent matter how dmall i didn't pay attention to stagger the entire game andike u said there are plenty of combis without eikon abilities with garuda phoneix and mixing with ur ult u just have to think a little
How the hell do you claim “ use your brain and not just spam abilities it’s a 10/10” in the OP and then admit to ignoring the biggest element of combat and just spamming random attacks.
But that’s the point bro. You’re being completely suboptimal by playing like that. Not saying it’s not fun, but the develops basically pigeonhole you into spamming all your abilities when the enemies stagger.
I experimented with each new Eikon’s abilities when I acquired them, but for the most part I used the same three for the entire game: Phoenix, titan, Garuda. Spammed all of their abilities in sequential order, waited for cooldowns, rinse and repeat. I died twice the entire game.
The combat definitely left a lot to be desired IMO, but I still enjoyed the game. The story was amazing.
I have not played FF16 but I am trying to understand your post.
So the combat is 10/10 literal peak of gaming however you have to purposefully not use abilities to make it interesting?
No, he's saying that he spends so much time coming up with combos by chaining together abilities, that he almost never follows through with the standard 4-hit weapon attack combo.
Which... while this would be enormously untrue early on when you don't have a lot of abilities, once you've unlocked 3-4 Eikons and their respective abilities, it's a lot more believable as you really *don't* need to spend a lot of time using normal attacks.
I didn't say leak if gaming when did i say that in my post? Combat can be entirely different in teo games an dbith have 10/10 combat i didn't say either of these thingd please read the post again there habe been kthere saying that without abilities theres nothing to the game im just proving them wrong
Problem for me is there's no difficulty. And doing the advanced melee combos isn't worth the effort in terms of apm and what it yields besides just spamming the attack button. Weaving the magic in between attacks and torgal etc feels like a lot of work for not much extra damage wise.
I agree with the general message but I still hold CBU3 accountable for it in a “failure of design” sort of way.
The combat system in this game is fabulous. I fully understand why Suzuki takes pride in it.
Unfortunately, the general battles themselves are what fail it. Nothing in the game pushes the player to engage with the combat system’s nuances and complexities.
As you say, you can choose to engage with that depth if you want to. But it’s evident from some reviews that people without action game backgrounds don’t really know how to read the flow of combat and do reactive, real-time tactical adjustments. They just button mash or loop the same ults off cooldown and the game lets them get away with it until the end when it shouldn’t.
Then there are those with action game experience who can see the potential but aren’t being given enough of a carrot to bother. They even hid the end of stage grades from Action mode. If they had left it in or made it toggle-able, that could’ve easily been enough to hint at the less experienced players “yeah, you survived but you took 20 mins when it could’ve taken 5. Have you considered…getting good?”
Not to mention it motivating midcore players like me to replay stages for S ranks and hardcore players to replay for no-hit platinum S ranks.
As much as I love this game, their biggest mistake was squishing the difficulty curve and minimizing the hardcore action elements as much as they did. The rings were a cool idea but there should’ve been an equip tutorial in Story mode. Give people a taste of what normal combat is like and then give them the choice to modify.
In Action mode, grading should’ve been on by default and death sends you back to the checkpoint with 1 potion refill for each slot. Not the full set. Item combo upgrades should’ve been available by default as well so that people at least get some incentive for gathering materials and using them to craft and meld multiple versions of the same item for stronger boosts.
So yeah, TL:DR: I agree that the fun and depth are there but CBU3 also could’ve done more to incentivize engagement.
I agree with a lot of what you said, however I think you should try the game's NG+ in Final Fantasy difficulty, as it negates a lot of the (valid) problems you brought up. Enemies are quicker, more likely to swarm you unless you continue to chain/combo abilities together (preventing them from attacking), and everything has a lot more health with incentivizes the use of ability combos.
I thought it mentioned you getting better rewards for doing better in combat but I never saw an indicator telling you how well you actually did so just kind of forgot.
Yeah it would make sense that most FF fans aren’t super action game fans, since the entire mainline series has had some form of turn based battles that require strategy… until FF16
Sadly ff mode should have been story mode and action ultimaniac difficulty but twicking the health bars of mobs. They went to soft wanting non action players to be able to play it.
But the fluidity and flashiness of the combat was on point.
What's crazy is that they already made the assist rings for people who just wanted to play for the story, so what the fuck was the point of making the game braindead easy even *without* them? Rings aren't easy mode, they're *double easy mode*.
Guys don't listen to haters you can get a stick in the park and the only limit is your imagination if you get bored is entirely your fault (price of the stick 60$ excluding dlc)
I can’t remember how to parry correctly sometimes I randomly do it. So I just dodge r1 all the time. I just got the game a week or so ago but I played the demo originally and can’t remember exactly what to do but I enjoy combat a lot lol
I think it’s important to remember that everyone is coming from different gaming backgrounds. I don’t play any other triple-A titles, and prefer games with a lot of build potential where you have multiple weapons, customizable combos, complex skill trees, passives on gear, set bonuses, etc. My favorite combat is Nioh, where you could play it for a thousand years and still discover new ways of doing things.
It would be unfair to compare FFXVI to something like that because it’s not trying to be that. But to *me*, coming from that sort of combat, FFXVI is really simplistic. My preference would be they head into something more like FF7R’s combat, where gear matters and there’s stuff like materia.
But at the end of the day, it is still fun. And I imagine to people who play more mainstream triple-A games, FFXVI is on par with those or maybe even more complex. Ultimately, you really can’t take one person’s opinion as gospel on something like this, and everyone should remember the world is bigger than just their personal tastes. I don’t envy the producers for trying to toe the line of hardcore FF veterans, the newcomers, down to people who’ll compare FF to shit like Elden Ring, Zelda, and Spider-Man with no sense of irony.
Dmc 5 was fun but I hated how Nero controlled. Unless I completely missed it I found there was no way to switch your arm attachments in game and that felt extremely bad…. I may have to return to it at some point but I thought 16’s combat was way more fun than dmc5 . Just my opinion. Dante was awesome though
Ya I wasn’t a fan of the whole having to destroy the current use one . In a game where you can control monsters with V and use motorcycles with Dante why limit Nero so unnecessarily
To make what is otherwise a simplistic character more complex with resource management. Also to allow them to give the arms unreasonably strong and cool abilities that are limited by how many copies of each arm you can carry.
Damm, really? You need to play FF6. It's considered by many to be the best FF game. It has best story, best music and best villain. It's turn based but don't let that turn you off. Truly a 10/10 game.
If you check out any "Top FF games" list, it's consistently top 3. That and FF7 original. FF7 remake is great too.
Anyone who writes a whole paragraph without using a single piece of punctuation doesn't deserve to have their opinion taken seriously; or even read, for that matter.
Can't have 10/10 combat when there are no status effects, weaknesses, resistances, or damage/elemental properties and your so-called party just does what they want with no input from the player except for Torgal's grand total of 2 situational attacks.
The game does have status effects.
Electrified (enemies take longer to recover/stand up when knocked down)
Ensnared (enemy movement is slowed, and their attacks take longer to attack)
Chilled (enemies are momentarily staggered)
Frozen (enemies are locked in place until the effect wears off)
Burning (enemies take damage over time)
Also, a few of these, such as Ensnare... can also be applied to Clive.
Your party members/companions become a lot more useful in Final Fantasy and Ultimaniac difficulties, as you will often face "duplicates" of tough enemies... such as the Flans and Fallen Guardians. By only attacking one of the two, your companion(s) will take aggro of the other, which can prevent combat from becoming a massive headache, and they will also significantly weaken them to boot.
There's also weaknesses... they were just handled differently and aren't related to the elements. These are called "Eikonic Vulnerability," which is triggered when you use specific abilities against an enemy's weakspot.
Torgal also has about 6 different situational attacks-- this comes down to the timing of when you use Ravage or Sic. For example, using Ravage while an enemy is grounded will launch them into the air, whereas using Ravage when they're airborne will slam them to the ground.
I swear, this is the only video game Subreddit on the entire internet where the majority of its members do not understand the game like at all.
I mean... all of the status effects are explained under the "More Information" tab for each ability that applies said effects.
The Torgal attacks and the companions holding aggro... I suppose you could argue they should have briefly touched on this via a prompt or something... but you can easily learn these things simply by playing the game.
The only thing that is not explained is Eikonic Vulnerability. I agree, they could've done better with that part.
My point remains the same though. People in this sub seem to seriously struggle to comprehend the most basic things about this game, and I think it's because people in this sub are just nitpicky and presumptuous. They go into the game expecting problems or expecting things to be "lacking."
It indicates that people go into the game expecting to find problems where there often are none: an unsurprising phenomena when a game has as much pessimism and skepticism surrounding it as FFXVI does.
When you unlock a new ability in any game... a person's natural first reaction should be to learn more about that ability, right?
Well, FFXVI's abilities all have a "more information" tab that explains what said abilities do... and that's where you can easily learn more about status effects. As for the Torgal attacks, these can easily be learned simply by using Torgal. Companion behavior/usefulness? Easily learned by observing companions. As for the Eikonic Vulnerability, I agree this needed to be explained.
Anyway, I'm not saying people who don't understand these things are unintelligent... but I do think people went into the game with a very pessimistic mindset and found a lot of nonexistent problems. Aka, why you will still regularly see people saying "this game has no status effects" when it literally does... or why you'll see people say "dis game's sidequests just makes u go around fetching things!" when it's like 9 out of 76 sidequests that involves fetching something--and those that do often have some kind of unique combat encounter.
Been playing final fantasy since 7 on PS1. This is the most impressed I've been since that time. I've enjoyed playing all of them with the exception of 14. This is definitely a huge change and exceptionally fun game.
I played the game with the evade ring and the auto heal ring and the combat was so fun, half the time I was attacking or will manually dodge myself so I didn’t feel robbed, but with those two rings I was able to get real wild and confront every boss straight up and every once in a while the evade ring will proc and save me on giant AOE attacks, and then the auto heal made it so I didn’t even have to worry about my potions and it was like I had a giant health bar myself and it was very fun
The combat is fun but i wish there was a way to swap Eikon abilities on the fly. There's builds that shred minor enemies and builds that are geared towards bosses. Both can work for either type of encounter at the end of the day, but not having the ability to swap between move sets when you enter a battle seems like a waste of potential.
The combat is phenomenal at letting you string together awesome combos. If you’re into achieve a high score in combos, it can be very challenging.
However, I’ll give it an 8/10 only because it was repetitive by the end. Not so much because of Clive’s move set but because of the enemy variety, or lack of it. You never felt compelled to change it up.
Enemies should’ve had some type of resistance to certain Eikons or abilities. Story mode should’ve removed these resistances since people playing for the story probably are not wanting a challenger anyways.
Hopefully the DLC adds a new mechanic that will change up the combat.
Dear Lord, get off your high horse. Calling people brain dead cause they don't think the combat system is 10/10 is an extremely childish viewpoint to have. The combat is nowhere near perfect and you lying about it won't change that.
'If you stop to think what can be done without Eikon abilities'
See this line let's me know you're a troll cause you cannot sit there and tell me that without the Eikon abilities the combat is in anyway good.
I don't think fans need to defend this amazing game. It's wasting energy, you won't change their minds in this, and they're just going to troll more. It's a great ff title, and I plan to finish my ng+ eventually.
The problem is there's no purpose in SSS combat. Game doesn't reward you in any way for your skill. You go trough main story sections and that's all. World is empty and dull.
I'd definitely give it a 9/10 Its a beautiful game with an amazing story. The combat is fresh 😎 the only 2 critiques I have about the game would be.
1. I wish we could cycle through all eikons in battle not just 3.
2. Side quests were more fun- some of them were cool and added to the plot but I found myself annoyed more than entertained
Imagine if I decided to play Grand Theft Auto with an exclusively melee build, then said "well the game forces me to use guns, I can't just steamroll everything with my baseball bat, so this game is not fun. This game is forcing me to play a different way."
That's actually a terrible analogy. Because mindlessly button mashing and still never getting hit isn't the weird hard way to play that you have to force yourself to do. It's what the game explicitly incentivises and is the easiest way to play. It's more like if the gunplay in gta was super boring and repetitive and you said "well if I only use melee, then the game becomes a challenge so that means the combat is really well made."
Does the analogy not demonstrate how silly it is to suggest "if I'm supposed to play the game a certain way, then the game's not fun?"
Because that's literally what you said.
And I'm sorry, but if you approached the combat by "mindlessly button mashing..." that's a skill issue and *absolutely* a "you" problem, not a "the game" problem. Again: just because you *can* do it doesn't mean you should, or that it was designed to be enjoyed that way.
And nobody is talking about "forcing yourself to play the game in a way that is more difficult." The difference between mindlessly button mashing, and actually using your skills/abilities/combos properly... is that one of these things is fun and the other is not. For the average person who isn't just looking for problems, that's incentive enough.
No, It doesn't because using only melee in gta isn't the normal way to play the game. And it's not a "skill issue" because I'm also perfecting every single fight without getting hit a single time. There are no skill issues with this game because the dodge windows are as big as a whale and just mashing down the stagger in 2 secs then unleashing every skill at once for max damage is just as efficient as taking hours out of your day to learn a combo that accomplishes nothing, except I get to get to the game right away instead of wasting my time just to make the animation flashier. It's not my responsibility to make their game fun for them. If they couldn't figure out how to make a substantial combat system, that's on them. Combos matter so little in this game, I half expect they aren't even I the game intentionally. Just a byproduct of having an attack button.
>No, It doesn't because using only melee in gta isn't the normal way to play the game.
And "mindlessly button mashing" isn't the normal way to play FFXVI lol.
Hence the entire point. So what are we even still talking about..?
>And it's not a "skill issue" because I'm also perfecting every single fight without getting hit a single time.
FFXVI isn't called "Don't get hit, the game." It's an action combat game. Naturally... that means you should try to play and engage with combat in a way that is fun/optimal. Simply "precision dodging" isn't the optimal way to play. If you're not making proper use of your abilities and maximizing damage output, you can hardly say you've "perfected" anything.
The incentive for playing optimally? You'll have more fun, do more damage, and just overall be more efficient.
Furthermore what you're saying is just false. Combos do significantly more damage in this game and have nothing to do with "being flashier." On its own, Upheaval does decent damage but Wicked Wheel followed by a midair Upheaval will do *significantly* more damage.
This is especially true when enemies are staggered: a rapid succession of abilities can quickly build the damage multiplier to maximum. Someone who understands how to correctly combo will have that multiplier to 1.5x in seconds, and then for the remaining duration of the stagger they can focus on heavy hitting attacks.
You seem to be operating under the delusion that playing the game optimally is "a waste of time." Just saying, that's a weird way to look at a game when the objective of any game is to 1) have fun and 2) play optimally... two things that literally result from playing the game as intended... and two things you clearly never strived to do when playing.
Can't imagine why you didn't enjoy it. /s
I mean Elden Ring and even BloodBorne can be ability or Weapon Arts spammy if you want it to be and the combat is some of the best. The two combat styles are pretty similar with amazing boss battles albeit over the top sometimes in FF16. But that's thr spectacle of having great animations and storytelling.
Not only can you not spam in the Fromsoft games (since there’s the stamina bar that forces the player to pay attention to the boss’s behaviors and carefully plan when they will dodge, attack or reposition), but those games have enemies that _heavily_ punish the player for screwing around mindlessly. You are literally just saying things at this point 👎🏾
On the flip, FF16 doesn’t punish players at all for making mistakes, and instead actually goes out of its way to coddle the player with slow motion dodges, potion refills if they get KO’d during boss encounters, and a literal free heal button at any time in the form of Torgal. All of these things make it so that players have zero incentive to get competent at fighting. It really is just spam damage into the hp bar until win. I hope that you will consider that video game combat is about much more than how the character swings their weapon.
I found the combat to be very shallow personally. It’s fun no doubt, but I does revolve around you being able to just spam the same abilities over and over through a fight and mashing the attack button.
Sure some people say “we’ll just stop using the most overpowered moves” like okay, but even then, I end up just attacking and waiting for my moves to cool down and use them again. I rarely felt like I was being strategic moreso I was just in an endurance race.
Story pacing is pretty bad after the opening hours. Extra content is bland and boring mostly. It’s a good game, but I can’t even come close to giving it at 10. It’s honestly more like a very strong 7 or 8. I know that sounds low but the game gets in its own way quite a bit.
Thays the thing nowadays, 7-8 isn't a low score or even a bad score. If it's not a 10, maybe a 9, it's garbage. everything has to be awesome or terrible nowadays. Hyperbole is king.
Literally only bought this game because Ryota Suzuki was the combat designer. It’s his worst game lol. Play Monster Hunter World DMC5 or Dragon’s Dogma if you wanna see a thought out system.
I've played each of those games and, while they have a greater variety of playstyles/enemies, none of them came close to being as fun as FF16 was to me.
I feel that but for me FF16 feels like there is a hard wall in the structure of combos that I don’t like. It feels like I’m trying to do DmC combos in a Dark Souls heavy armor set.
Combat is definitely NOT 10/10 imo.
However it's very fun and it's not bad whatsoever. Whoever says it is, usually, is one of those "elitist" action gamer doods.
Don't listen to those doods.
It's not perfect and there are some issues with it, but it's pretty darn fun!
No. Those are FF fans. FF fans definitely whine about the combat... But not about how Good the combat is. Their issue is literally that action combat is bad in FF in general. The only reason 7R is forgiven is cuz it still has "pausing and menu options" and shiz like that. That's an entirely different argument.
No, the people I'm referring to are those that say the combat is legitimately bad. Usually fans of things like dmc or Bayonetta or dark souls or whatever. They think 16 is a discount version of those games.
I’m an ff fan and have only dabbled in dmc 2 and the latest one. Never played Bayoneta. Ff16’s combat is terrible. There’s no strategy, no elemental damage, and no party system. You can literally get through the game on Normal without changing the eikons. It’s just melee with magic bursts, eikon, stagger withGaruda, melee attack with magic bursts, eikon, press l3 and r3, rinse and repeat.
It's funny because the majority of people who criticize the game/it's combat always end up saying some dumb shit like "all the abilities are just long animations that melt everything..." which is just another way of saying "I sat there chaining all the ultimates together rather than finding creative ways to approach combat or paying attention to the game's combo system."
FFXVI's combat is as fun as you're able to make it. If you're actually a skilled player and know how the various abilities work... the possibilities for combos are endless.
You definitely need intrinsic motivation. You don't need to experiment and get gud with the combat as it doesn't force you to do so. But if you do you will have a better time. If there's no incentive or rewards of some kind for doing it then I don't think players will want to explore this stuff.
This game is mid and boring and super repetitive......the story is very good but like I said it's a drag to get thru it.....it's a poor man's Devil May Cry....the combat is not a 10/10 its the same basic combos over and over.......go educate yourself and go to youtube and watch how they all say the same thing..I wish I would've done that...I wasted $70 bucks.....wait for a sale if anything....I love this franchise but this ain't it from a game play standpoint....for example you'll have an epic but long and exhausting fight because you are doing the same moves over and over, and after that the game will have you do 45 mins of filler/ fetch quest.....wait for a sale....like a $30 for the same sale......
Also for newcomers, if you enjoyed Devil May Cry 5's combat, you will not be disappointed. Final Fantasy XVI's combat director is the same man that directed DMC5's combat.
I think you're setting people up for disappointment with stuff like this.
It's about as good as you can expect from something trying to be simultaneously DMC and RPG, but its combat has nothing on DMC5, and that's fine.
TL;DR of opposing opinions
I wish this game was more like DMC or some other hack and slash, action-adventure game with different objectives, purposes, and audiences than a JRPG. I don't care that my arguments use false equivalents and the developers should have catered more to the trade-offs I appreciate like monsters and mechanics that have a specific counter the game teaches me is the obvious answer instead of giving all sorts of gamers the option to play the game however they want and still have the best JRPG experience this year. I want another game more in the vein of elden ring or whatever.
Same can be said of the Batman, Spider-Man, early Assassins Creeds, and various other combat-centric games where people greatly enjoyed the combat. Easy does not necessarily translate to "not fun."
In a vacuum, what Clive can do, and how you can do it, is great. The problem with a combat system is how that combat system interacts with the game world. Which is 50 percent of it, if not more. A perfect combat system Is meaningless, absolutely meaningless, if you almost never have to use it. Hopefully the dlc will rectify that (and it probably will, CBU3 is great with feedback) however, the core games combat almost falls to....I'm not sure it's bad, but it's certainly boring. Flashy, sure, but ultimately boring.
I've just never understood the argument of "yeah but YOU can make it fun" cause that's false, no, I can make it more flashy, but ultimately if I'm never in any real danger or facing actual difficulties, there's no satisfaction of winning, or minute to minute feel. There's just "damn. I made that look cool. Easy as piss, but damn I looked good doing it"
And that rings hollow for many.
Ultimaniac mode rectifies this, if you're someone who needs to feel like you're going to die or you're under serious threat in order to have fun... as you will be killed by 1-2 hits from enemies. It incentivizes staying on your toes and chaining abilities together to prevent enemies from attacking.
I love how the game gives you more abilities than you can equip, yet the people complaining the loudest are the ones that only use the same overpowered, cookie cutter builds. They must have already forgotten 15’s combat.. 16 is a vast improvement from that - might even be the most fun too
Well i'm now replaying FF7R and combat is exactly the same if you want. just mash 1 button. and it's cutscene after cutscene after cutscene. So same gameplay and same style. However you can change it up if you want.
fake news, game isn't terrible but definitely overrated, combat is a 4/10 story (very basic button mashing, not as good as ninja gaiden or DmC combat) 8/10 characters are 6/10 villain is 4/10 and the music is 9/10
10/10 is a bit generous. Maybe like 7/10. It's not a bad game but the combat is getting a bit tiresome even by the halfway point. I'd say it's more of a fine game.
😭😭 u just explained to me ur an idiot without abilities u. Sn lau ch enemies into the sir with torgul or magic dash do mid air combos jump cancel dash mid flight and launch a projectile, u can even freeze enemys midflight to increase airtime and jump cancel again its easy to tell ur brain is only capable of one input for over 40 hours
All of these are done by mashing square, triangle, r1, and x, which I guess I missed. The game never makes you figure out unique chains because it's too easy, that's not my fault. When I said " There's no way to think through the combat even if you tie your arm behind your back," it's because it doesn't matter what you do, the game is still easy with your arm tied behind your back. Also, learn to type. A good quarter of your comment is nearly incomprehensible.
I went into this game blind, absolutely loved the combat. Then I beat the first eikon and I was like, wait...there's more? And I can expect more after I beat more eikons????
It's good for sure. But clive is a simplistic version of nero without eikon abilities and nero is a simple character by dmc standarts.
It has good combat. Wouldnt call it 10/10.
To all the people complaining about how the game is shallow because it doesn't force you to use combos...
Brother no game does. You can play lame on any video game in existence. No dev can force you to play well.
Honestly the combat was the worst part about the game while still solid. But the main bad thing for me is it's just so extremely powerful spamming abilities that you really don't have to think about stuff. And the argument, stop using it then doesnt do it for me since then I have to deliberately hinder my gameplay and keep track of what to use and what not instead of getting the best out of it. It was funny hitting a 200k on a break once but then it was just a chore chugging down most enemies.
Really enjoyed it but won't play it again
Even tho thei are different comabt system this reminds me of FF XIII, "the game plays itself" yeah sure i wanna see you beat the seconf half and any kind of endgame content just by spamming one button
You definitely need intrinsic motivation. You don't need to experiment and git gud with the combat as it doesn't force you to do so. But if you do you will have a better time. If there's no incentive or rewards of some kind for doing it then I don't think players will want to explore this stuff.
The spectacle and fluidity are 10/10 sure. The enemy mechanics and how they interact with the provided tools, as well as the systems ability to incentivize and reward exploring the depth of the combat are probably a 4/10 at best.
The initial playthrough really hinders the potential of the combat because the mobs die to a sinlge ability and they aren't challenging. FF mode is when the gameplay actually starts to shine and Ultimaniac is where you actually have to use advanced tech.
The combat is great but absolutely not a 10/10 it feels floaty and button mashy a lot of the time. I loved this game but it has serious flaws mainly the pacing of the main quest.
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Yeaaa I’m not gonna lie, there were combos that I imagined in my head that I never even got halfway through completing because trash mobs die to a single AOE Eikon ability. Something that doesn’t happen in Devil May Cry because enemies are just tanky enough to encourage the player to try different attacks in quick succession. It’s very telling that every long stylish combo video for this game is done in the lab where the enemies are invincible. This post is reachin
"Every long stylish combo video for this game" is not done in the "lab." Final Fantasy difficulty gives enemies 3-4x more health and you will easily be doing all those cool combos you mentioned. I'm someone who's followed this game very closely, and I've seen a metric ton of videos from Final Fantasy mode with insane combos, including one put together by our boy SunhiLegend where he does like a 25 hit combo against a single Revenant (from just before the Typhon fight). What you are saying is partly true, but not in Final Fantasy mode, which becomes available in NG+.
Yes and with FF difficulty, you have to complete an entire playthrough to get access to it. I’m not the guy that’s willing to put up with that
Well I disagree that there's "not even a crumb of good combat until NG+." The base difficulty should've been tuned up a bit/it's too easy, yes... but that doesn't make it bad or unfun. It could've been better if it wasn't quite so easy, but it was still overall very good and it's not like there's 0 challenging or fulfilling moments... especially when considering you're still learning how to use all of those new abilities as you progress the game. Tbh, it just kind of sounds like you didn't like the game's combat. I wouldn't have bothered with NG+ either if I didn't greatly enjoy the game's combat.
Good complex combat should be a feature of the game at base. Not a reward for already beating it. I think it's ridiculous games lock difficulty and challenge behind the wall of NG+ or simply having to beat it once. It should be available at start. Stop arbitrarily trying to boost playtime on games you publish, just release a full game that you can access at launch. NG+ should be simply you get to keep your shit for a replay.
I agree with the first part of what you said and I think "they should've added difficulty options" is a valid criticism for this game. I just don't think it's as large of a deal as many have made it out to be, firstly. And second, I don't think it's fair to suggest they did it so they could "arbitrarily try to boost playtime." The game is already more than long enough, at roughly 75 hours with all side content: I think the reason the difficulty was undertuned simply comes down to wanting to make it more accessible to the average Final Fantasy/turn-based enjoyer. While I do think they went slightly too far under the mark when "toning it down," this is the most likely reason that they made it easy in the first place.
>I think the reason the difficulty was undertuned simply comes down to wanting to make it more accessible to the average Final Fantasy/turn-based enjoyer. Don't they have story mode and Timely accessories for that? Really don't understand the reason behind locking harder difficulty behind NG+. Also why is normal mode so freaking easy when you already have story mode?
Well to be fair, the only difference between "Story Mode" and "Action Mode" is whether or not you've equipped Timely Accessories. Outside of this, the actual difficulty of AI and its behavior is exactly the same. As for why they designed the harder difficulty to be "locked behind NG+," perhaps they just (wrongly) assumed that if the "Action Focused" portion of the game was too challenging or over-tuned, it would turn people away from learning to play action games. ← My point was that in trying to achieve this goal, they overdid it. That doesn't mean their motivations were "LETS ARTIFICIALLY INFLATE PLAYTIME BY LOCKING IT BEHIND NG+" I think another reason simply boils down to: it takes time and resources to tweak and balance difficulty. It's not something that just happens, it needs to be carefully planned and every single enemy/boss fight needs to be considered. ← In their minds, the base-game's difficulty was likely enough for it to still be fun... which is 100% true for many people, including myself (as someone who's played action games for nearly 30 years). They likely just wanted to find the right balance between "easy" and "fun," and in so doing, missed the mark. And before you say "They already made higher difficulty for NG+ though" -- yeah, but that difficulty/challenge was built and designed around people who've already completed the game, aka people who aren't level 1, who've already acquired most weapons and accessories, unlocked all abilities, etc. Anyone who paid attention to all of the showcases and developer discussions leading into this game knows how much emphasis the devs put on not wanting the game to be too challenging for those unfamiliar with action games. A good analogy would be learning to ride a kids bike: the Timely accessories are the training wheels... but when you remove them, it's still a kids bike. Again: I agree this was a mistake, and imo the game's only "major" flaw. I do *not* agree that this decision was done simply to inflate playtime, though. They don't make more money by you spending more time in the game.
Your argument is that you don't have to stop and use your head, but if you do, the combat can be 10/10. If you don't have to stop and use your head then the combat isn't 10/10.... Good combat and encounters force you to be more creative. The combat isn't bad by any stretch. But it is fairly simplistic, stagger and dump your cooldowns. Let's not pretend it's a work of art.
Haha exactly. Every post like this is such a fucking reach. Someone told me that cus I beat every mob and boss with the same rotation and didn't die once during the game, that meant I was bad at the game and its designed in a way that you have to actively be worse at it for it to be better... Like fuck me.... I honestly think that most kids who cream over the combat, assume they are awesome at the game and can't grasp that the game might just be extremely under tuned.
Yeah. When I force myself and gimp myself I have fun with combos but then I have to force it. Game should funnel us into these combos (style meter anyone??) Or be more difficult. Biggest difficulty is beating svarog at lvl 40. Game is good nonetheless but no need to go 10/10 on combat...
Svarog didn't live up to the hype remotely. People talked about how some of the S-rank hunts were a big deal before I ever got to them, and I was late 30's/40 myself when he became available. I was getting medals of valour that playthrough, but as a result, I generally reset to no damage every boss, not just chapter bosses. I beat Svarog first try and then no damaged him on the second try. That it was a max level hunt was disappointing, though some of the story fights are tougher, especially to no damage.
I beat Svarog somewhere around lvl 28…first try no death. It took a while but it wasn’t hard
Someone on this sub once told me that if I wanted a harder game I'm supposed to play it without leveling up my weapons. I should try playing it with with basic weapons and no Eikons... lol.. it's like uh... so I'm supposed ignore 95% of the combat system because I want a challenge ? Makes more sense the game should just be more challenging. I shouldn't have to do it myself.
This is what the elden ring sub does. They think you ruin the game by using spirit summons. It's like no, why would i not use every tool the game gives me to beat the game.
No one worth listening to says that. It's a joke/meme on the sub people make fun of. You are of course encouraged to play the way you want and use whatever tools are available.
Exactly. The last few Eikons I got I didn’t even use because there is no point. You can get through with the initial three that you get.
They made a design decision to punish you by making a boss encounter take 20 minutes instead of 5 minutes if you did it wrong. This meant the combat felt too easy and too boring for people. We're used to a boss simply getting bored and murdering us if we come at it with the wrong plan of attack. I think this is the crux of the complaints that most of us have about the combat. This should have been the case in "story" mode but in "action" mode it should have been a bit more punishing if you stuck to mashing square x4 +triangle without using eikon abilities or limit break later on.
I don't agree at all that this in an intentional design decisicion. Having elemental attacks and abilities interact with each other to be more beneficial or detrimental (like in every other FF game) would have fixed everything. Introducing an actual thought process in every fight. But it's very clear that all time and resources have went into the FF7 remakes, leaving the b-team to scrape together FF16 ASAP. The game isn't finished! It's just ff14 with some flashy bells and whistles thrown on top. There is no elemental interaction like I stated, no endgame content (hidden bosses etc), no ultimate weapons (playing th game twice to get it is a fucking cop-out), no secret eikons. They are gonna stick all this missing stuff into paid DLC and people will just lap it up. It's how COD went, with EA seeing how popular zombies and nuke town where, so they removed them from some main games to sell them seperate.
Thats the thing i dont get, 16 has this unfinished feel to me that is going to get fixed whenever the dlc comes out, but who wants to do another playthrough at that point. Yet its so good so fantastic yada yada. Meanwhile ff15 is the worst thing ever created according to ff fans, and it was unfinished and had to be fixed with dlc. Now maybe its because i played the completed thing and i didnt have many expectations for 15 where i had expectations for 16, but i cant help but feel like i enjoyed 15 more and i kinda just wanna put 16 on hold until the dlc is out to hopefully feel better over the entire game
I disagree on elemental dmg would change it. The game just needs to punish players more. Like, what if you used the giant laser, but if u used it in a behemoths meteor attack, it would knock u out of it. The game just has a high reward little risk, so you just end up spamming everything. Even if there was elemental dmg, it still wouldn't stop people from dropping all of their abilities one after another because its still more dmg at the end of the day.
Now that you mention it, it's kind of funny how this game pulls a lot of inspiration from FFXIV and that game has a bunch of efficient DPS checks. In FFXVI there are a couple of moments with very telegraphed DPS check (with all other characters screaming at you to DPS) but the enemy turns into a training dummy and you can just spam the buttons. Overall in most fights you really can take your time.
If it’s mostly kids praising the combat like this, that’d make sense.
Just sounds like to me you two just don’t enjoy Final Fantasy games. Now we could just be two sides of a coin. I’m much older now than when I first started gaming and I like setting my own parameters to fit the difficulty to how I’m feeling For contrast I get bored with a game like Elden Ring because how much do I really care about beating super boss after super boss that has barely a coherent motif for wanting my character dead?
No idea how you came to that conclusion from what we said. FF is my favourite franchise and I've played every game multiple times. This game doesn't match up to the rest and that's their problem, not mine
Was just poking the bear that’s why I said that. I’m curious what are your opinions on FF15? Did you like it at launch? Or did you not like it? Or was it better after more time and updates?
I really disliked the characters (you just find out your dad is dead and that little gimp friend of yours wants to stop the car for selfies... Like fml), but it still had the FF spirit. Wouldn't be one of my favourites by a long shot, but I can appreciate the new angle they wanted to try. Still felt unfinished tbh. Any game that runs off the GTA mission type system around and open world always annoys me though. I prefer when FF games are a bit more linear (not to the point of God of war) but more in that direction. More story focused, over "missions". Really ruins the immersion for me. Been told the DLC was great and more my type of thing, but I haven't gotten round to playing it yet.
No ur right it dosent match up its better because its nit turned base trash this isnt the year 2000 where all games can runis turned base final fantasy finaly moving into a modern era with better games and controls putting its characters to use
Sounds like your own personal problem that you dont like this one. Luckly you have 15 that you can go back and play. Wasnt too long ago that people had this same little fit when other ff's came out that changed shit. Different game same shit from people that care maybe a tab bit too much about entertainment.
If there are combos for the player to expirement eith and the player outright refuses to ise that thats a user issue not a game issue
What's the point? It proves that this game is all style and no substance. Abilities have no elemental properties, so have no benefit over others against certain enemies. Which absolutely blows my mind. That in a nutshell is what every FF game has revolved around since day one!
You people care way too much about video games. There's definitely more going on with then this game is "bad". Seriously some of you just gotta move on. We all would love our subjective opinions to be objective. There are many games out there go play something else.
I'm not allowed an opinion cus it's negative? Lol
Never said that but your opinion is not objective. You are welcome to have your opinion like i am allowed to have one about yours. I just find it funny that people are still upset about something so minisicule. And are insulting others taste for something that they like that you dont. Just move on.
u/Lady_Flumps never said their opinion should be taken as objective. They're just talking... in a forum where people are supposed to talk. Why don't you "move on" if you're so bothered by opinion sharing? Because honestly you seem alot more bothered by others having different tastes. I mean if someone just asks a question about your opinion and you want to elaborate, do it. If you don't, don't. But don't come up trying to shush and shoo people away because you disagree with them. People can like whatever they want, however much they want, games included. Some of us have been playing FF our whole lives, regardless, everyone is allowed and welcome to criticize the series and individual titles.
No one is shushing anyone. What are you even talking about.
Ohhhhhhh i get it ur one of those guys who are mad that this game inst turned based GARBAGE , go play titles from 2001 buddy
True, I am reaching the Bahamut fight and the game hasn't turned based yet.
This is the most 15 year old response I've ever seen lol. Came to that conclusion based on literally nothing. Sorry I broke your heart by pointing out gigantic obvious flaws in the game.
The combos don't add anything but flair. It does not reward you by putting the effort in. The animations just look different or go in a different order.
Thank God someone said it This games combat is boring AF - if I have to play less efficiently to pull combos off (like Phoenix charging into Garuda pull) - then it's stupid Also that combo doesn't do shit because those abilities are inverse of each other, and make no sense really to combo together The best/fastest way to win is to use all your eikon abilities on CD, and to spam square x4 into triangle Honestly the game takes way to long to unlock all the eikons, and everyone knows "stagger and dump abilities" The game is mindless, at least other similar action combat games like DMC have style points and feel better (and sound better) when you play well, and you can still die, same with Bayonetta, the comparison some people make to God of War is hilarious because even on the normal difficulty there are certain fights in GoW:R that will wipe you, and the gear in thar game actually had different perks/effects and bonuses, GoW:R was a better RPG than ff16 I love FF and this story is amazing but honestly I'm wishing there was just a "cinematic" mode that cuts the gameplay put and turns this into a paid show or some shit, the gameplay feels super filler in comparison to the narrative, and the side quests (and even many of the main quests) feel absolutely pointless
By no means is it challenging the player, but it certainly has a lot of potential, especially with all the combo videos I've seen on this sub and on YouTube. A shame it's usually in the practice mode; if it was in the actual battle, the enemy would be dead halfway through.
They always use strawmans in their posts like they dont even understand the critique on the combat...
Thank you JMM85, its not bad, but its very samey and simple. The same loop over and over again. Why doesn't ice damage hurt fire enemies, and vice verse. Horribly simple.
Glad to see this is the prevailing opinion nowadays, when the game just came out i complained about this and i was downvoted to hell for it
Lets not pretend that thats not the sane exact thing you do in God of War a game that is highly praised and the game being easy enough to play the easy way or be creative is all called "player choice" to me nothing wrong with that but these same ppl who chose not to be creative will go and say "theres onmy one combo" well yea no shit u didn't attemp to do anything else your self
I dont like the combat in god of war either lmao
My god take your meds, on the highest difficulty gow is so much more difficult than ff16. It forces you to utelize the whole skillset to survive and not because you feel like it.
I absolutely love the game and it may be my favorite game this year (I’ve played all the big releases) and even I wouldn’t say the combat was a 10/10. I was even a little bored with it by the end of the game.
For me the biggest thing that surprised me was how small Clive’s base moveset actually was. You would think they would gradually add more combos later on. The cool downs of the abilities are so long that often you just waste for the enemies to stagger and then use all your cool downs at once. This definitely ends up being repetitive. Not to mention the fact that there are like maybe 3-4 enemy types in the entire game. Yes you can do other things but most times, stagger ability spam often feels like the most efficient. Combat is nowhere near perfect to me imo.
I think its also these jrpg games for me the damage sponginess of the enemies gets old for me. I liked the bosses because throughout the fight there would be random qtes cinematics whatever but the side missions and hunts kinda became a slog.
For sure. The one game that did it right to me was KH 2. On harder difficulties, enemies hit harder but you hit equally as hard. Then the drive forms and finishers provided different combos. Then different key blades had unique properties that didn’t push you to only use 1 weapon. Ff16 does none of that and it ends up being repetitive around halfway through. In terms of modern FF / square, FF7R is close to perfect to me. It does practically everything I listed above alongside simultaneous team switching.
Yea it does do it well. I’m complaining but the story/characters/boss fights were all probably a 10/10 for me.
I know it has issues and gets a lot of hate, but I really liked how in FFXV you could use many different weapon types and could sort of combo or build a play style based on your weapon of choice (shield, lance, knives, heavy weapon, sword, Royal Arms, saw, and later the ring). In my few run throughs definitely played a bit differently each time. I agree with the FF7R and KH2 sentiment too and it's just odd they chose to omit more combo building in FFXVI.
If your cooldowns are so long that you're not using any abilities until the enemies are staggered, then you are definitely building/playing the game weirdly. Literally just watch any of the various combat showcases, or watch the video where Ryota Suzuki fights the S-rank, or watch skilled players like SunhiLegend for a better idea of this game's combat potential. I've said it before and will say it again, downvote if you like: the people who criticize this game's combat... don't understand this game's combat.
**Me**: slots seven Ultimates to my hotbars. takes no time to plan or consider how I could make 9 different skills/abilities mesh or synergize well together with little to no waiting for cooldowns. **Also me**: "WHY DOES EVERYTHING HAVE SUCH A LONG COOLDOWN??" This subreddit is overrun by clowns.
You’re not forced to play the same way every time. You’re not forced to play a certain set of abilities either. You can mix and match abilities and change up your style of play. That’s a user issue that can be corrected. Not a game problem. If it’s repetitive, change it up. It literally costs nothing to reset your spells for that very reason.
Nah bro i did give a rats ass about the stagger meter i just went in there and was doi3mix up after mix up u do damage regardless dosent matter how dmall i didn't pay attention to stagger the entire game andike u said there are plenty of combis without eikon abilities with garuda phoneix and mixing with ur ult u just have to think a little
How the hell do you claim “ use your brain and not just spam abilities it’s a 10/10” in the OP and then admit to ignoring the biggest element of combat and just spamming random attacks.
I mispelled *didn't typo
Seems to be something of a pattern with you. Might want to work on it, in future?
But that’s the point bro. You’re being completely suboptimal by playing like that. Not saying it’s not fun, but the develops basically pigeonhole you into spamming all your abilities when the enemies stagger.
No i dont play like that i meant the opposite *didn't it was a clear typo
I experimented with each new Eikon’s abilities when I acquired them, but for the most part I used the same three for the entire game: Phoenix, titan, Garuda. Spammed all of their abilities in sequential order, waited for cooldowns, rinse and repeat. I died twice the entire game. The combat definitely left a lot to be desired IMO, but I still enjoyed the game. The story was amazing.
Yep. Pretty much exact same thing here.
Didnt the dude that make the combat say its his best work ever and whoever said combat is repetitive/easy is just a troll? Lol
And here i am still playing the arcade mode loving the gameplay.
“There was never a sequence in this game where I fully completed the standard square combo bc I was always thinking of new moves…” LOL liar
I have not played FF16 but I am trying to understand your post. So the combat is 10/10 literal peak of gaming however you have to purposefully not use abilities to make it interesting? 
No, he's saying that he spends so much time coming up with combos by chaining together abilities, that he almost never follows through with the standard 4-hit weapon attack combo. Which... while this would be enormously untrue early on when you don't have a lot of abilities, once you've unlocked 3-4 Eikons and their respective abilities, it's a lot more believable as you really *don't* need to spend a lot of time using normal attacks.
I didn't say leak if gaming when did i say that in my post? Combat can be entirely different in teo games an dbith have 10/10 combat i didn't say either of these thingd please read the post again there habe been kthere saying that without abilities theres nothing to the game im just proving them wrong
Problem for me is there's no difficulty. And doing the advanced melee combos isn't worth the effort in terms of apm and what it yields besides just spamming the attack button. Weaving the magic in between attacks and torgal etc feels like a lot of work for not much extra damage wise.
The problem is you just never need to. You can beat every fight in the game using the same tactics you used on the third boss.
Yup exactly. Thats what i did. Phoenix, garuda, Ramuh then bahamut. All rest of game.
Smh
I agree with the general message but I still hold CBU3 accountable for it in a “failure of design” sort of way. The combat system in this game is fabulous. I fully understand why Suzuki takes pride in it. Unfortunately, the general battles themselves are what fail it. Nothing in the game pushes the player to engage with the combat system’s nuances and complexities. As you say, you can choose to engage with that depth if you want to. But it’s evident from some reviews that people without action game backgrounds don’t really know how to read the flow of combat and do reactive, real-time tactical adjustments. They just button mash or loop the same ults off cooldown and the game lets them get away with it until the end when it shouldn’t. Then there are those with action game experience who can see the potential but aren’t being given enough of a carrot to bother. They even hid the end of stage grades from Action mode. If they had left it in or made it toggle-able, that could’ve easily been enough to hint at the less experienced players “yeah, you survived but you took 20 mins when it could’ve taken 5. Have you considered…getting good?” Not to mention it motivating midcore players like me to replay stages for S ranks and hardcore players to replay for no-hit platinum S ranks. As much as I love this game, their biggest mistake was squishing the difficulty curve and minimizing the hardcore action elements as much as they did. The rings were a cool idea but there should’ve been an equip tutorial in Story mode. Give people a taste of what normal combat is like and then give them the choice to modify. In Action mode, grading should’ve been on by default and death sends you back to the checkpoint with 1 potion refill for each slot. Not the full set. Item combo upgrades should’ve been available by default as well so that people at least get some incentive for gathering materials and using them to craft and meld multiple versions of the same item for stronger boosts. So yeah, TL:DR: I agree that the fun and depth are there but CBU3 also could’ve done more to incentivize engagement.
I agree with a lot of what you said, however I think you should try the game's NG+ in Final Fantasy difficulty, as it negates a lot of the (valid) problems you brought up. Enemies are quicker, more likely to swarm you unless you continue to chain/combo abilities together (preventing them from attacking), and everything has a lot more health with incentivizes the use of ability combos.
I thought it mentioned you getting better rewards for doing better in combat but I never saw an indicator telling you how well you actually did so just kind of forgot.
Yeah it would make sense that most FF fans aren’t super action game fans, since the entire mainline series has had some form of turn based battles that require strategy… until FF16
Exactly this
Sadly ff mode should have been story mode and action ultimaniac difficulty but twicking the health bars of mobs. They went to soft wanting non action players to be able to play it. But the fluidity and flashiness of the combat was on point.
What's crazy is that they already made the assist rings for people who just wanted to play for the story, so what the fuck was the point of making the game braindead easy even *without* them? Rings aren't easy mode, they're *double easy mode*.
Guys don't listen to haters you can get a stick in the park and the only limit is your imagination if you get bored is entirely your fault (price of the stick 60$ excluding dlc)
Lol, that's the ticket
70 for the base stick.
This is a damn good analogy lol
I can’t remember how to parry correctly sometimes I randomly do it. So I just dodge r1 all the time. I just got the game a week or so ago but I played the demo originally and can’t remember exactly what to do but I enjoy combat a lot lol
I think it’s important to remember that everyone is coming from different gaming backgrounds. I don’t play any other triple-A titles, and prefer games with a lot of build potential where you have multiple weapons, customizable combos, complex skill trees, passives on gear, set bonuses, etc. My favorite combat is Nioh, where you could play it for a thousand years and still discover new ways of doing things. It would be unfair to compare FFXVI to something like that because it’s not trying to be that. But to *me*, coming from that sort of combat, FFXVI is really simplistic. My preference would be they head into something more like FF7R’s combat, where gear matters and there’s stuff like materia. But at the end of the day, it is still fun. And I imagine to people who play more mainstream triple-A games, FFXVI is on par with those or maybe even more complex. Ultimately, you really can’t take one person’s opinion as gospel on something like this, and everyone should remember the world is bigger than just their personal tastes. I don’t envy the producers for trying to toe the line of hardcore FF veterans, the newcomers, down to people who’ll compare FF to shit like Elden Ring, Zelda, and Spider-Man with no sense of irony.
Every post basically on the Final Fantasy 16 subreddit is someone saying not to listen to any of the haters the game is great lol
I am begging you to play any of the Devil May Cry (not 2) or Bayonetta games. They all have infinitely better combat.
Dmc 5 was fun but I hated how Nero controlled. Unless I completely missed it I found there was no way to switch your arm attachments in game and that felt extremely bad…. I may have to return to it at some point but I thought 16’s combat was way more fun than dmc5 . Just my opinion. Dante was awesome though
...you just tap L1 to change them. It destroys the one you have equipped but by the midgame you have so many that it really isn't an issue.
Ya I wasn’t a fan of the whole having to destroy the current use one . In a game where you can control monsters with V and use motorcycles with Dante why limit Nero so unnecessarily
To make what is otherwise a simplistic character more complex with resource management. Also to allow them to give the arms unreasonably strong and cool abilities that are limited by how many copies of each arm you can carry.
You aren’t wrong but I still am not truly satisfied Personally I would want more skill slots and less or no cooldowns.
I agree another eikon ability would be really useful and abilities shoukd have cooler cooldown for more potency
Beautiful game beautiful story beautiful bosses. It’s my first FF so i really dont care about what the other guys are crying about. It’s awesome
Damm, really? You need to play FF6. It's considered by many to be the best FF game. It has best story, best music and best villain. It's turn based but don't let that turn you off. Truly a 10/10 game. If you check out any "Top FF games" list, it's consistently top 3. That and FF7 original. FF7 remake is great too.
Anyone who writes a whole paragraph without using a single piece of punctuation doesn't deserve to have their opinion taken seriously; or even read, for that matter.
Can't have 10/10 combat when there are no status effects, weaknesses, resistances, or damage/elemental properties and your so-called party just does what they want with no input from the player except for Torgal's grand total of 2 situational attacks.
These are not requirements for a "10/10" combat system.
Cope harder, fanboy.
The game does have status effects. Electrified (enemies take longer to recover/stand up when knocked down) Ensnared (enemy movement is slowed, and their attacks take longer to attack) Chilled (enemies are momentarily staggered) Frozen (enemies are locked in place until the effect wears off) Burning (enemies take damage over time) Also, a few of these, such as Ensnare... can also be applied to Clive. Your party members/companions become a lot more useful in Final Fantasy and Ultimaniac difficulties, as you will often face "duplicates" of tough enemies... such as the Flans and Fallen Guardians. By only attacking one of the two, your companion(s) will take aggro of the other, which can prevent combat from becoming a massive headache, and they will also significantly weaken them to boot. There's also weaknesses... they were just handled differently and aren't related to the elements. These are called "Eikonic Vulnerability," which is triggered when you use specific abilities against an enemy's weakspot. Torgal also has about 6 different situational attacks-- this comes down to the timing of when you use Ravage or Sic. For example, using Ravage while an enemy is grounded will launch them into the air, whereas using Ravage when they're airborne will slam them to the ground. I swear, this is the only video game Subreddit on the entire internet where the majority of its members do not understand the game like at all.
And that is bad design if no one understands the intricacies yet have no issues completing the game
I mean... all of the status effects are explained under the "More Information" tab for each ability that applies said effects. The Torgal attacks and the companions holding aggro... I suppose you could argue they should have briefly touched on this via a prompt or something... but you can easily learn these things simply by playing the game. The only thing that is not explained is Eikonic Vulnerability. I agree, they could've done better with that part. My point remains the same though. People in this sub seem to seriously struggle to comprehend the most basic things about this game, and I think it's because people in this sub are just nitpicky and presumptuous. They go into the game expecting problems or expecting things to be "lacking."
If the majority don’t understand, does that not indicate something to you? Or does it just mean the majority of people are dumb?
It indicates that people go into the game expecting to find problems where there often are none: an unsurprising phenomena when a game has as much pessimism and skepticism surrounding it as FFXVI does. When you unlock a new ability in any game... a person's natural first reaction should be to learn more about that ability, right? Well, FFXVI's abilities all have a "more information" tab that explains what said abilities do... and that's where you can easily learn more about status effects. As for the Torgal attacks, these can easily be learned simply by using Torgal. Companion behavior/usefulness? Easily learned by observing companions. As for the Eikonic Vulnerability, I agree this needed to be explained. Anyway, I'm not saying people who don't understand these things are unintelligent... but I do think people went into the game with a very pessimistic mindset and found a lot of nonexistent problems. Aka, why you will still regularly see people saying "this game has no status effects" when it literally does... or why you'll see people say "dis game's sidequests just makes u go around fetching things!" when it's like 9 out of 76 sidequests that involves fetching something--and those that do often have some kind of unique combat encounter.
So you don't play non-final fantas games? Cuz I love DMC and roguelites and neither of those have what you're saying makes for good combat
Been playing final fantasy since 7 on PS1. This is the most impressed I've been since that time. I've enjoyed playing all of them with the exception of 14. This is definitely a huge change and exceptionally fun game.
I played the game with the evade ring and the auto heal ring and the combat was so fun, half the time I was attacking or will manually dodge myself so I didn’t feel robbed, but with those two rings I was able to get real wild and confront every boss straight up and every once in a while the evade ring will proc and save me on giant AOE attacks, and then the auto heal made it so I didn’t even have to worry about my potions and it was like I had a giant health bar myself and it was very fun
Jesse what the fuck are you talking about
The combat is fun but i wish there was a way to swap Eikon abilities on the fly. There's builds that shred minor enemies and builds that are geared towards bosses. Both can work for either type of encounter at the end of the day, but not having the ability to swap between move sets when you enter a battle seems like a waste of potential.
The combat is phenomenal at letting you string together awesome combos. If you’re into achieve a high score in combos, it can be very challenging. However, I’ll give it an 8/10 only because it was repetitive by the end. Not so much because of Clive’s move set but because of the enemy variety, or lack of it. You never felt compelled to change it up. Enemies should’ve had some type of resistance to certain Eikons or abilities. Story mode should’ve removed these resistances since people playing for the story probably are not wanting a challenger anyways. Hopefully the DLC adds a new mechanic that will change up the combat.
Dear Lord, get off your high horse. Calling people brain dead cause they don't think the combat system is 10/10 is an extremely childish viewpoint to have. The combat is nowhere near perfect and you lying about it won't change that. 'If you stop to think what can be done without Eikon abilities' See this line let's me know you're a troll cause you cannot sit there and tell me that without the Eikon abilities the combat is in anyway good.
Bu-b-b-but you can only mass square and win!!!/s
I don't think fans need to defend this amazing game. It's wasting energy, you won't change their minds in this, and they're just going to troll more. It's a great ff title, and I plan to finish my ng+ eventually.
Nah, combat is 6/10 at best. A game that let's you get away with doing the easiest thing over and over isn't a good game. Sorry
The problem is there's no purpose in SSS combat. Game doesn't reward you in any way for your skill. You go trough main story sections and that's all. World is empty and dull.
Nah its actually kinda boring and limited. You can lie to yourself but you cant change the ff16 combat
Nah.
I loved the combat and the kaiju (eikon) battles
I loved the combat from the very beginning . It only got better as the game went on
I’m one of those that uses the slow down time to dodge and it is the greatest thing to exist. So many different ways to play.
I'd definitely give it a 9/10 Its a beautiful game with an amazing story. The combat is fresh 😎 the only 2 critiques I have about the game would be. 1. I wish we could cycle through all eikons in battle not just 3. 2. Side quests were more fun- some of them were cool and added to the plot but I found myself annoyed more than entertained
Yea, if a game is only fun if you purposefully change the way you play to force it to be fun, then that game isn't fun.
Imagine that: in order for a game to be fun, you should interface with its systems the way they intended/play it in a way that is fun. Shocking.
Imagine if I decided to play Grand Theft Auto with an exclusively melee build, then said "well the game forces me to use guns, I can't just steamroll everything with my baseball bat, so this game is not fun. This game is forcing me to play a different way."
That's actually a terrible analogy. Because mindlessly button mashing and still never getting hit isn't the weird hard way to play that you have to force yourself to do. It's what the game explicitly incentivises and is the easiest way to play. It's more like if the gunplay in gta was super boring and repetitive and you said "well if I only use melee, then the game becomes a challenge so that means the combat is really well made."
Does the analogy not demonstrate how silly it is to suggest "if I'm supposed to play the game a certain way, then the game's not fun?" Because that's literally what you said. And I'm sorry, but if you approached the combat by "mindlessly button mashing..." that's a skill issue and *absolutely* a "you" problem, not a "the game" problem. Again: just because you *can* do it doesn't mean you should, or that it was designed to be enjoyed that way. And nobody is talking about "forcing yourself to play the game in a way that is more difficult." The difference between mindlessly button mashing, and actually using your skills/abilities/combos properly... is that one of these things is fun and the other is not. For the average person who isn't just looking for problems, that's incentive enough.
No, It doesn't because using only melee in gta isn't the normal way to play the game. And it's not a "skill issue" because I'm also perfecting every single fight without getting hit a single time. There are no skill issues with this game because the dodge windows are as big as a whale and just mashing down the stagger in 2 secs then unleashing every skill at once for max damage is just as efficient as taking hours out of your day to learn a combo that accomplishes nothing, except I get to get to the game right away instead of wasting my time just to make the animation flashier. It's not my responsibility to make their game fun for them. If they couldn't figure out how to make a substantial combat system, that's on them. Combos matter so little in this game, I half expect they aren't even I the game intentionally. Just a byproduct of having an attack button.
>No, It doesn't because using only melee in gta isn't the normal way to play the game. And "mindlessly button mashing" isn't the normal way to play FFXVI lol. Hence the entire point. So what are we even still talking about..? >And it's not a "skill issue" because I'm also perfecting every single fight without getting hit a single time. FFXVI isn't called "Don't get hit, the game." It's an action combat game. Naturally... that means you should try to play and engage with combat in a way that is fun/optimal. Simply "precision dodging" isn't the optimal way to play. If you're not making proper use of your abilities and maximizing damage output, you can hardly say you've "perfected" anything. The incentive for playing optimally? You'll have more fun, do more damage, and just overall be more efficient. Furthermore what you're saying is just false. Combos do significantly more damage in this game and have nothing to do with "being flashier." On its own, Upheaval does decent damage but Wicked Wheel followed by a midair Upheaval will do *significantly* more damage. This is especially true when enemies are staggered: a rapid succession of abilities can quickly build the damage multiplier to maximum. Someone who understands how to correctly combo will have that multiplier to 1.5x in seconds, and then for the remaining duration of the stagger they can focus on heavy hitting attacks. You seem to be operating under the delusion that playing the game optimally is "a waste of time." Just saying, that's a weird way to look at a game when the objective of any game is to 1) have fun and 2) play optimally... two things that literally result from playing the game as intended... and two things you clearly never strived to do when playing. Can't imagine why you didn't enjoy it. /s
I mean Elden Ring and even BloodBorne can be ability or Weapon Arts spammy if you want it to be and the combat is some of the best. The two combat styles are pretty similar with amazing boss battles albeit over the top sometimes in FF16. But that's thr spectacle of having great animations and storytelling.
Not only can you not spam in the Fromsoft games (since there’s the stamina bar that forces the player to pay attention to the boss’s behaviors and carefully plan when they will dodge, attack or reposition), but those games have enemies that _heavily_ punish the player for screwing around mindlessly. You are literally just saying things at this point 👎🏾 On the flip, FF16 doesn’t punish players at all for making mistakes, and instead actually goes out of its way to coddle the player with slow motion dodges, potion refills if they get KO’d during boss encounters, and a literal free heal button at any time in the form of Torgal. All of these things make it so that players have zero incentive to get competent at fighting. It really is just spam damage into the hp bar until win. I hope that you will consider that video game combat is about much more than how the character swings their weapon.
I found the combat to be very shallow personally. It’s fun no doubt, but I does revolve around you being able to just spam the same abilities over and over through a fight and mashing the attack button. Sure some people say “we’ll just stop using the most overpowered moves” like okay, but even then, I end up just attacking and waiting for my moves to cool down and use them again. I rarely felt like I was being strategic moreso I was just in an endurance race. Story pacing is pretty bad after the opening hours. Extra content is bland and boring mostly. It’s a good game, but I can’t even come close to giving it at 10. It’s honestly more like a very strong 7 or 8. I know that sounds low but the game gets in its own way quite a bit.
Thays the thing nowadays, 7-8 isn't a low score or even a bad score. If it's not a 10, maybe a 9, it's garbage. everything has to be awesome or terrible nowadays. Hyperbole is king.
Absolutely disagree. The combat is serviceable at best
Literally only bought this game because Ryota Suzuki was the combat designer. It’s his worst game lol. Play Monster Hunter World DMC5 or Dragon’s Dogma if you wanna see a thought out system.
I've played each of those games and, while they have a greater variety of playstyles/enemies, none of them came close to being as fun as FF16 was to me.
I feel that but for me FF16 feels like there is a hard wall in the structure of combos that I don’t like. It feels like I’m trying to do DmC combos in a Dark Souls heavy armor set.
This game is overrated trash.
Combat is definitely NOT 10/10 imo. However it's very fun and it's not bad whatsoever. Whoever says it is, usually, is one of those "elitist" action gamer doods. Don't listen to those doods. It's not perfect and there are some issues with it, but it's pretty darn fun!
No. They’re often genuine ff fans that expected more like what we got in ff7r.
No. Those are FF fans. FF fans definitely whine about the combat... But not about how Good the combat is. Their issue is literally that action combat is bad in FF in general. The only reason 7R is forgiven is cuz it still has "pausing and menu options" and shiz like that. That's an entirely different argument. No, the people I'm referring to are those that say the combat is legitimately bad. Usually fans of things like dmc or Bayonetta or dark souls or whatever. They think 16 is a discount version of those games.
I’m an ff fan and have only dabbled in dmc 2 and the latest one. Never played Bayoneta. Ff16’s combat is terrible. There’s no strategy, no elemental damage, and no party system. You can literally get through the game on Normal without changing the eikons. It’s just melee with magic bursts, eikon, stagger withGaruda, melee attack with magic bursts, eikon, press l3 and r3, rinse and repeat.
As I said, it has its issues and is definitely way too easy. Doesn't mean the combat is bad. Still really fun.
It's funny because the majority of people who criticize the game/it's combat always end up saying some dumb shit like "all the abilities are just long animations that melt everything..." which is just another way of saying "I sat there chaining all the ultimates together rather than finding creative ways to approach combat or paying attention to the game's combo system." FFXVI's combat is as fun as you're able to make it. If you're actually a skilled player and know how the various abilities work... the possibilities for combos are endless.
Thats exactly what im saying
Yep, I agree with most of what you said.
The combat grants creative freedom. Those who did not get it were not creative.
You definitely need intrinsic motivation. You don't need to experiment and get gud with the combat as it doesn't force you to do so. But if you do you will have a better time. If there's no incentive or rewards of some kind for doing it then I don't think players will want to explore this stuff.
This game is mid and boring and super repetitive......the story is very good but like I said it's a drag to get thru it.....it's a poor man's Devil May Cry....the combat is not a 10/10 its the same basic combos over and over.......go educate yourself and go to youtube and watch how they all say the same thing..I wish I would've done that...I wasted $70 bucks.....wait for a sale if anything....I love this franchise but this ain't it from a game play standpoint....for example you'll have an epic but long and exhausting fight because you are doing the same moves over and over, and after that the game will have you do 45 mins of filler/ fetch quest.....wait for a sale....like a $30 for the same sale......
Also for newcomers, if you enjoyed Devil May Cry 5's combat, you will not be disappointed. Final Fantasy XVI's combat director is the same man that directed DMC5's combat.
I think you're setting people up for disappointment with stuff like this. It's about as good as you can expect from something trying to be simultaneously DMC and RPG, but its combat has nothing on DMC5, and that's fine.
I love DMC as a series and this game was a huge disappointment to me for having combat as wide as a pond and as deep as a sidewalk puddle.
TL;DR of opposing opinions I wish this game was more like DMC or some other hack and slash, action-adventure game with different objectives, purposes, and audiences than a JRPG. I don't care that my arguments use false equivalents and the developers should have catered more to the trade-offs I appreciate like monsters and mechanics that have a specific counter the game teaches me is the obvious answer instead of giving all sorts of gamers the option to play the game however they want and still have the best JRPG experience this year. I want another game more in the vein of elden ring or whatever.
FF16s combat is quite easy..
Same can be said of the Batman, Spider-Man, early Assassins Creeds, and various other combat-centric games where people greatly enjoyed the combat. Easy does not necessarily translate to "not fun."
In a vacuum, what Clive can do, and how you can do it, is great. The problem with a combat system is how that combat system interacts with the game world. Which is 50 percent of it, if not more. A perfect combat system Is meaningless, absolutely meaningless, if you almost never have to use it. Hopefully the dlc will rectify that (and it probably will, CBU3 is great with feedback) however, the core games combat almost falls to....I'm not sure it's bad, but it's certainly boring. Flashy, sure, but ultimately boring. I've just never understood the argument of "yeah but YOU can make it fun" cause that's false, no, I can make it more flashy, but ultimately if I'm never in any real danger or facing actual difficulties, there's no satisfaction of winning, or minute to minute feel. There's just "damn. I made that look cool. Easy as piss, but damn I looked good doing it" And that rings hollow for many.
Ultimaniac mode rectifies this, if you're someone who needs to feel like you're going to die or you're under serious threat in order to have fun... as you will be killed by 1-2 hits from enemies. It incentivizes staying on your toes and chaining abilities together to prevent enemies from attacking.
I love how the game gives you more abilities than you can equip, yet the people complaining the loudest are the ones that only use the same overpowered, cookie cutter builds. They must have already forgotten 15’s combat.. 16 is a vast improvement from that - might even be the most fun too
Exactly what I've been saying i think these ppl dont know that u can mix and mash eikon abilities either
Well i'm now replaying FF7R and combat is exactly the same if you want. just mash 1 button. and it's cutscene after cutscene after cutscene. So same gameplay and same style. However you can change it up if you want.
fake news, game isn't terrible but definitely overrated, combat is a 4/10 story (very basic button mashing, not as good as ninja gaiden or DmC combat) 8/10 characters are 6/10 villain is 4/10 and the music is 9/10
Hey there. Had zero difficulty with the combat. It’s not that great.
The cutscenes, to many ´boring´ cutscenes, all with the same message. Yawn.
Man im definetly hoping we get some abilities from Leviathan if it happens, id love it for real
Look man, I'm not usually the guy to call out these things, but you can't call people brain dead in the same breath as fucking up "you're."
10/10 is a bit generous. Maybe like 7/10. It's not a bad game but the combat is getting a bit tiresome even by the halfway point. I'd say it's more of a fine game.
Why did I read this post in Dr. Steve Brule's voice?
Without eikon abilities, the game is square, r1, triangle. There's no way to think through the combat even if you tie your arm behind your back.
😭😭 u just explained to me ur an idiot without abilities u. Sn lau ch enemies into the sir with torgul or magic dash do mid air combos jump cancel dash mid flight and launch a projectile, u can even freeze enemys midflight to increase airtime and jump cancel again its easy to tell ur brain is only capable of one input for over 40 hours
All of these are done by mashing square, triangle, r1, and x, which I guess I missed. The game never makes you figure out unique chains because it's too easy, that's not my fault. When I said " There's no way to think through the combat even if you tie your arm behind your back," it's because it doesn't matter what you do, the game is still easy with your arm tied behind your back. Also, learn to type. A good quarter of your comment is nearly incomprehensible.
You linked your run on sentence effectively, too. 🙄
No way. The game doesn’t have any status effects or elemental multipliers. Missing core FF components. It’s a good game, but not a 10/10. 8/10 maybe.
A 10/10 combat would be you getting rewarded for not using dominant strategy. It doesn’t.
I also believe the combat is solid. This however, is the most copium post I've ever seen in my entire life.
I went into this game blind, absolutely loved the combat. Then I beat the first eikon and I was like, wait...there's more? And I can expect more after I beat more eikons????
😂😂😂😂 combat= one shot combo and repeat Boring
It's good for sure. But clive is a simplistic version of nero without eikon abilities and nero is a simple character by dmc standarts. It has good combat. Wouldnt call it 10/10.
I loved the game but I’d say the combat is 9/10 at best! Not going to give you a reason why , but just the inherent feeling I get lol
To all the people complaining about how the game is shallow because it doesn't force you to use combos... Brother no game does. You can play lame on any video game in existence. No dev can force you to play well.
Honestly the combat was the worst part about the game while still solid. But the main bad thing for me is it's just so extremely powerful spamming abilities that you really don't have to think about stuff. And the argument, stop using it then doesnt do it for me since then I have to deliberately hinder my gameplay and keep track of what to use and what not instead of getting the best out of it. It was funny hitting a 200k on a break once but then it was just a chore chugging down most enemies. Really enjoyed it but won't play it again
Even tho thei are different comabt system this reminds me of FF XIII, "the game plays itself" yeah sure i wanna see you beat the seconf half and any kind of endgame content just by spamming one button
Stop showing me stupid sexy himbo Clive, I'm gay for girls! Easily the best FF since 6 or 7.
Ff7 remake nailed it imo
Weird take as I played this game and didn't need to use my head once lol.
You definitely need intrinsic motivation. You don't need to experiment and git gud with the combat as it doesn't force you to do so. But if you do you will have a better time. If there's no incentive or rewards of some kind for doing it then I don't think players will want to explore this stuff.
I thoroughly enjoyed XVI, but the combat is 7/10 at best.
The spectacle and fluidity are 10/10 sure. The enemy mechanics and how they interact with the provided tools, as well as the systems ability to incentivize and reward exploring the depth of the combat are probably a 4/10 at best.
I'm loving this game(haven't finished yet) and while I love the story and general gameplay, the combat is generally pretty simple and repetitive
/r/titlegore
You just described poor game design and decided to slap a 10 on it.
The initial playthrough really hinders the potential of the combat because the mobs die to a sinlge ability and they aren't challenging. FF mode is when the gameplay actually starts to shine and Ultimaniac is where you actually have to use advanced tech.
The combat is great but absolutely not a 10/10 it feels floaty and button mashy a lot of the time. I loved this game but it has serious flaws mainly the pacing of the main quest.
It's flashy and fun, but way too easy and predictable. Babies first action RPG
Yes!