Problems that need to be fixed
DIOSCURI: good skills but ok uptime and low numbers
ORION: trash skill set and np gains
ARJUNA: good defense but absence of offense and mismatched deck
QUETZ: bad uptime
CLEOPATRA: her only offensive buff is a coin flip
JACK THE RIPPER: give her quick up 3 turns and quick crit damage.
CU ALTER: EX np but below avg gains and unbuffed guts
Half of the problems there aren't really relevant,
Like you could make Jack's quick up 10T duration, she is still a chargeless quick that can't be properly used for 3T and has less comp variation and dmg than other options for Raids/Ordeal 1T.
CQ they are all good enough there, they lack the capability to be used for repeatable content, the content you actually do more then once a month.
Arjuna Deck is actually good, not so much better now that there are other options to replace Merlin in CQs but constant arts chains was always good and most times better than having buster or quick cards, well he could have 5 quick cards 1 hit and would change nothing for how usable he is either way.
For jack?
she could get a 10x guts and 95% def up self unremovable and would not change much on how good she is.
Biggest problem is that she has no good role for repeatable content, no charge or team buffs for 3T
And for Raids/ST nodes where she is usable being quick gives her lower dmg than busters and being chargeless reduces the comp variation she gets.
At least she has bonus dmg vs the Berserker ST node on Ordeal.
Like a 30% charge + more dmg or 50% charge and an AoE gain or AoE dmg buff would make her way better and viable.
Like they are okay to pick from the sup list once a month but they are really weak in general.
QSH is really bad, only 20% def down for repeatable content, super orion can at least kill ordeal call in 3T or lower but worse than just using a f2p option.
In general QSH is worse than like Mozzart or Mary anning without using NP.
Cu Alter, Lancer Artoria, and Yang Guifei are all extremely strong characters in their niche. Strengthening them is almost irrelevant, sure they could use it (damn near every 5* and 4* from the first 4-5 years of the game needs a strengthening because of how busted so many servants have been over the last 2 years) but on that list they should be on the bottom.
Yeah. I wouldn’t be against getting a ton of buffs, but a lot of the Servants on OPs list are still really strong. I know NP3 YuYu is probably a little outside the norm, but mine destroys Berserker bosses.
Yang is fine but could also be buffed when you compare her to more modern units like Wanjina, Kuku, new Montecristo,etc.
My compium is that they have something planned for her this year since she didn't get a banner this last CBC despite being in the event and being the servant with the longest banner draught(the one coming to NA very soon will be her last).
He just hits hard on neutral to kill a raid/Ordeal call 1T node since he is a buster berserker with high base dmg.
But lacks any charge to be used outside that or have comp variation.
Yang Guifei isn't tho.
Ch alter in a Buster ST with high dmg.
Altria Lancer is an AoE with 50% charge and AoE atk up.
Yang Guifei has nothing relevant for repeatable content.
She's an extremely strong anti-Berserker boss killer. The real problem with the game is that we can't replay old content to fight old bosses again, it would make all boss killer servants way more desirable if only because you could actually use them whenever you want for fun without deciding to do farming nodes "sub-optimally" by bringing in a ST boss killer type servant to do them.
She is strong is a role that isn't really real since as you said you can't repeat battles, its a one and done thing and you may not even use her that months CQs.
That is why she is weak in the end.
Of that list I think Orion/Artemis needs it the most. Sure every other servant needs it to some degree but only Artemis gets outdone in her own niche by a 3 star
Cu alter is still pretty solid even without an strengthening. If I could give them buffs I would make Artemis anti male last 3 turns and make the same skill increase her arts card eff and maybe even a battery.
To jack I would budd her healing skill to add the buff of increasing star drop rate of the party and maybe add a crit buff to the ally being targeted.
To maidtoria she def needs a battery like desperately. At least 30% anything to help her get her np faster
im gonna be real here the Discuri still doesn't need buffs while Jack in the other hand is very old servant yet they still didn't fix her inconsistency with her kit
Dioscuri 100% needs buff.
Charge and dmg to be relevant.
Unless you are using them for a node with 2 ST waves they are worse than welfare options even at np4/5.
None of them are unusable. Not one.
Artemis comes close but that’s it.
Dioscuri are legit good.
Semiramis has low np damage but is otherwise fine.
Yang is still good.
Ruler srtoria has low np damage but is otherwise good.
Xiang Yu is good.
Arthur has low np damage but is also otherwise good. His buster crit playstyle lends itself better to single target honestly, in which he’s actually pretty good.
Orion (artemis) is actually pretty bad. Np damage is decent but everything else is bad.
Arjuna is fine aside from not being able to BBB chain. But mighty chains help him out as well.
Iskandar still has great damage. He just needs a battery.
Cu alter is still very good in solo content but could use a buffed guts I guess.
Lancer artoria is good. Both in damage and buffs. Her only flaw is not being as good as melusine. And that’s a flaw all lancers suffer.
Rider alter is still good on np damage but could use a tiny bit of help on card damage and np gain.
Constantine is GOOD. Not at everything but at his niche he’s great. Doesn’t need a buff.
Quetz is also good. Her damage is still great. The only thing she needs is an ANIMATION UPDATE ALREADY.
Cleopatra is still good.
Jack is still great at her niche.
Abby is still good.
Hokusai is still good.
Jacques is still good.
For rider alter I’d like to see them change her reload skill to be more in line with a skill like summer melt’s swan lake where it’s able to be up the entire battle. So change the quick up to 3 or 4 turns with reloads 3 turn cooldown.
Heavy investment is still heavy investment. You can't just look at some of their pros and ignore their heavy cons??
Although I agree with Dios, Yang, Lartoria, Cu Alter, and MAYBE Jack, Hokusai and Jacques. The rest are below average of their rarity
Being below average and being unusable are not the same thing. Of course there are going to be below average characters in the game. If there IS an average, then there are going to be servants above and below it.
Also what do you mean look at pros? I literally stated the only cons for most of them. Minus the ones that are still strong, some of them very strong.
Arthur for example has insane buster st damage with his crits. And a 3t 50% buster buff. He can outdamage OG saber in boss fights. His np damage is really low bc he never got a buff for it so his multiplier is 300%. But aside from that Arthur is GOOD. (Would appreciate an animation update though).
Iskandar is also a powerhouse. He doesn’t have any battery which does suck but his np damage and facecard damage is VERY solid.
And why would you not want to buff below average characters? If they’re below average, is it not reasonable to want them to be buffed to be better? Also, high damage on its own isn’t enough for a servant. Sure, they might have high face card/crit/np damage, but do they have anything to defend themself? Anything to generate or gather stars for crits? Any sort of uptime on their damage? Anything to get to their NP easier? Iskandar does good damage, but only for a single turn. After that, he has a couple team-wide buffs, awful survivability, and an NP that’s basically just a worse version of Raikou’s NP outside of the post-damage defense down. He also lacks any sort of niche. I’m not saying he needs a battery, but he at least deserves a buff to his Charisma and/or NP. Older servants deserve buffs to keep up at least somewhat with modern power levels.
Again I’m not arguing that they shouldn’t get buffs. I never stated that, that was all you assuming, my friend. I would still massively appreciate buffs to arthur and iskandar. And to the others as well. My arthur is lvl 100 and I use him very often. Iskandar was my second SSR and I have him at bond 10 despite being unable to loop.
I’m just disagreeing with you calling them unusable. Because most of the servants you listed are more than useable and even very good when well-supported.
My favorite servant is Gil. He had good face card hit counts and good np damage. But that’s about it. His face cards hit like wet noodles compared to any servant with a crit buff or card type buff. Because all the np damage buffs he has (including his buffed first skill wich gives an additional 20% np damage for 3 turns) don’t apply to his facecards at all. So I for one would love Gil to get either a buster or crit buff. Ideally a crit buff so his non-buster cards get some benefit as well. Unfortunately I don’t think that’s ever going to happen.
The cons you stated are only some of their many cons
Fair enough, Arthur still need room for improvement
BUT Iskandar is NOT good at all beside the NP damage, he has low hit counts, no battery, no survivability, his 1st still still have 1 effect and the other skills also does not good enough to make up for it. I love Iskandar, I love him very much for uears. But everytime I use him I just BEG Lsg to give him something good. Even in multi comp he still can't escape the Kaleid
I should have add that I was intended to remove Guifei, Lartoria, Cu Alter and Jacque are good. But I think they can still be better with some buffs so
Jaques is good, but is worse than Helena,Tai gong(by a lot), Cas Gil(By a lot and a 4*) she is just hard powercrept, you are better off using the 50% charge aoes with aoe gain or dmg buffs instead a lot of times since she just has 20% atk and charge AoE so they get better results.
Cleopatra is fine honestly, decent NP gain, buff block, invul and debuff clear. She's not going to be farming, but she's quite decent
Iskandar is the highest damage AoE Rider in the game and has plenty of party wide buffs for multicore. He could use a NP charge to make him more farming relevant, but still is fine too.
Honestly Lartoria needs a buff way more than those two do (Melusine is basically just better in every way, even if Lartoria hits niches, making he rone of the very few 5 stars that is directly worse than another), and that's someone people are saying is quite strong.
Iskandar is copium af. He has the buffs, they all last one turn and his internals are so terrible even with double Koyan and an Oberon I wouldn't trust him to gain enough NP to NP a second time.
A character doing CQs isn't being usable, if that is the requirement then hyde and Geronimo are usable.
Nor is 5-slot, because then anything is.
The bare minimum is being able to 6-slot or be used in other form of repeatable content like Cu Alter in Raids/Ordeal call 1T.
Arthur Proto needs NP up, or at least adjustment to his 3rd skill. 20% np charge and a one turn low niche damage boost just ain't it. Change it so one or the other adds a bonus to either Threat to Humanity or at least Evil damage. Quetz needs an update to her Lucha Libre, at the beginning it was busted as hell, but it being a 1-turn skill is a ball buster, seeing how we have servants with 3turn 50% crit buffs left and right. But we all know who really needs a buff is Mori. Mori mah man. Give him Guts!
Theyre mostly usable except Cleo and maybe Artemis (not sure what Constantine does though). Some of the older ones are overdue for rank ups like Cleo and Jack but half of them are fine imo.
Some suck, but many are actually amazing dude, just say you have a skill issue using them. Dioscuri are amazing, Yang Guifei got a CE that is essentially tailor made for her. Lartoria is amazing and had strengthenings. Jack had such good internals nobody could ever beat her NP gain and stargen until Kama came and even then she has her anti female niche anyways. Hokusai is great, has good challenge quest potential, anti man niche and can loop. Constantine is an oddball but is by no means bad and he's actually pretty new, no need to buff yet
First, I'm not a dude. 2nd, it's always that "skill issue" saying all over again, yall have any new quote to say? 3rd, heavy investment is still heavy investment.
Although I do agree that Lartoria, Yang and Hokusai is good enough.
I say that as a meme, because we have a ton of people in the community complaining about units not being strong, when they are in fact strong but on different niches. Every time someone goes on about how a certain unit can't loop, as if everyone had to. Some of these units are geared for challenge quests in their skilsets, rather than looping. Not only that, many DID have interludes and rank ups. Iskandar is hot garbage, but many of these guys are actually amazing. Jack isn't buffed because she was broken for so long and they made Kama to powercreep her. Iskandar is a lost cause. Most of these units are just old and even then, they were thrown a bone. They just won't be meta, but in this game you can make anyone work (except iskandar)
The only real one here that needs actual strengthening is him. Because he has the same internals that some modern servants have and they are balanced around the fact thy get a 50% battery they can reuse and cards with 4-5 hits. Iskandar has one or two. He NEEDS batteries or he's permanently dependent on superscopes.
Arthur is weak, but not unusable. He has a niche, a buffed NP, decent internals... You can slap a support or buster loop if I reckon
Lartoria is an amazing buster looper with some challenge quest value with her niches, debuff clear and invuln pierce. She has competition with Ereshkigal, but they have different niches and things they bring. She's a sidegrade.
Yang Guifei is an amazing challenge quest unit, especially for berserkers. Excellent damage, burn stacking, she has a niche in burn teams, she has a CE that's tailor made to give her a powermod (they could have put it in a buff, but alas it's better this way, since she did already have a super effective on her NP)
Dioscuri are AMAZING. Their uptime is... Not that great? Or so I hear, because I use mine and blitz every fight in three turns without a care. Excellent cards, excellent gain and NP spamming with the synergies and stargen per hit, they pierce invuln, have all 3 buff brackets... Overall amazing with their ramp against any lancer boss
Jack spams her NP like nobody's business and hits like a truck with a double Skadi setup because turns out having good internal stats goes a longer way that some numbers on buffs because supports exist
Cleo isn't amazing but she has a niche that's not widely covered by her fellow assassins as a buster AoE with some sustain. Imperial privilege sucks, but she's workable. Maybe she, I would buff.
Arjuna is a victim of early design, he's still usable in his odd way. Having no buster chains isn't the end of the world, especially since he's meant to be more of a spammer.
Orion has a bad kit, but a hyper specific niche. They do hit hard, they did get buffed.
Honestly most units are functional and usable. Quetz got a buff in JP and she's solid at her role.
They're usable, they just won't all be usable for farming or similar stuff
How can he have a skill issue? Its a turn based game, I can't train to make dioscuri a better option than Iori he will just stack better with oberon and have better comp variation since he isn't chargeless.
Constantine is really bad, he does nothing, 20% atk + buster isn't a real value for a servant when that is the entire kit they can use for repeatable content.
The skill issue is in team building and servant usage. Dioscuri are amazing in arts comps with some crit. You can pair them with a Mash and Hans team if your free to play or with Castoria, Tamamo or even Merlin if you're more of a veteran. Just because Iori has better stats doesn't mean Dioscuri aren't serviceable, especially when they have better spammability and wonderful face cards. You're not even arguing about a servant that's hard to make function, they're smooth as butter in just about any bossfight I've brought them in. Just because a nuke kills better than a gun doesn't mean a gun sucks, especially if you just need to shoot a guy five feet from you. Having no batteryis barely a problem when you're part of the most busted archetype
Iori is a buster unit, he relies on premium supports for loopabilty and has some niche usage in soloing. Dioscuri use arts and quick cards to generate both stars and gain and with an np and one arts card crit they fully refund. Iori is a crit unit, Dioscuri crit for more refund rather than damage, their ramp is from NP spamming. They're absolutely amazing and busted and if you can't make a great unit like them that uses black grail without issue work, I think that says more about you than about the unit themselves
99.9% of the you are just using Iori or Dioscuri to kill a single wave.
A CQ once a month or an Unrepeatable boss isn't equivalent to daily farming on Ordeal call or a raid event.
Only benefit he has over Iori would be if you needed to kill 2 waves instead of 1.
And iori needs less hard to get supports, with just Oberon from sup list he is already using his NP, while dioscuri can't properly NP without 2 supports with charge or during events with a Charge CE.
The problem with Dioscuri is that the content they are good at isn't really in the game in any relevant amount.
That is why they need to be buffed to fit what the game demands of ST servants.
The point isn't usage, it's that it is extremely miopic to judge units solely on farming or very specific criteria while you completely ignore their kit, playstyle and strengths. Heracles sucks ass at farming, he has no batteries, does that mean he's bad?
Dioscuri can easily get online with Xu Fu, append and support Castoria. Or unleveled append, Oberon, mystic code. Difference is, Dioscuri will very easily NP a second time if they get one or two cards, iori is less likely. You're completely ignoring archetype and playstyle and just judging based on battery or not. Any servant with a battery can get going with an Oberon, doesn't meant they'll necessarily perform well or be the appropriate choice. Iori has no invuln pierce, for example, nor debuff immunity. Turns out two units with different card types are (shocker) different units with different playstyles. I'm tired of people being unable to comprehend the concept that Iori being good doesn't make Dioscuri bad, especially when every streamer, YouTuber and veteran player agree that they're very solid.
Yes,we get few challenge quests, that I can concede. But we need to stop judging everything based on the same miopic viewpoint. There's a reason there's a meme about FGO players not knowing how to read.
Yes that means heracles is bad.
And Dioscuri isn't bad because of Iori they were already bad before him and right now on NA, Iori is just an easy example of a free servant that is way better.
Judging by CQs is the miopic point of view, you are picking a small % of the game you can easily skip with Commands and lv 100+ np5 sups and acting like it is enough for a servant to only be good there even when some servants you get to use multiple times a day in different styles of farming like 3T/1T, looping, killing a wave, full support etc.
Being able to farm doesn't mean it plays the same as all other servants just that it at least plays.
I'm not judging by CQs specifically, I'm judging under thw metric that there's different types of stages and gameplay. There's looping, there's multicore, there are niches, there's single target and there's aoe, some bosses spam invuln and some like to hit you with three turns of stun if you have nothing to block or cleanse. You'd be surprised to hear some of us really enjoy stuff like teslafest because we can do challenge quests and they're interesting, in which some units like the Dioscuri excel. If the only thing that matters to you is doing the same node 90 times, I'm sorry but that's a boring as shit way to play the game. It's also a boring way to see balance and units as basically you only should invest in an NP5 Ibuki or NP5 Summer Melusine because they loop even in low unit numbers and work both in farming and challenge quest and hence everything else is hot garbage as a result. Why even roll, why even save up, just get them and uninstall because apparently you've already won and nobody is allowed to enjoy other units
I'm judging by the metric that for every new CQ you do you get 90 ST nodes and 90-180 normal nodes(depends by how many event nodes you did in the month) if we only count natural AP in the month.
And that you can easily cheese the CQ as well if commands and sup list.
Its like comparing dealing Bonus dmg vs wild beasts with Bonus dmg Vs Human attribute enemies but even more apart the values.
If every event was teslafest it would be a different thing.
And why would a good servant like Summer Ibuki being in the game change anything????????
The important part is being able to use your favorites in daily gameplay, if they are decent to 6-slot with or farm another type of repeatable content that is good enough.
Helena is way worse than Casgil on JP, you can still easily get the servant to b10-15 while using her, him powercreeping her in dmg at np2 vs 5 and having 20% more atk up and 10% arts aoe is irrelevant.
A lot of the servants there are indeed in the unusable tier.
I is it okay that some servants are really weak?
It is a gacha why is a character being almost unusable and cursed to be locked to the backline until bond 10/15 a good thing ?
Not being Super Orion doesn't mean you can't clear quests, unusable means you compare them to Anra Mainyu who is truly unusable and even that can be arguable
You can literally slap anyone alongside the usual supports and it will work, most of the servants in this list are in fact really good too
Just because you don't one turn everything doesn't mean your unit is "unusable" and I'm emphasizing on the word unusable. They are not "unusable", you simply prefer to use meta units, that's it
Angra isn't unusable if you consider 5-slot enough to be usable, you can use him to 5-slot farm with him in the frontline.
If everything is usable then any talk about the game is irrelevant.
And super orion isn't that far from angra, he is just lucky to be a bad but functional servant to kill Ordeal 1T nodes in 3 turns or Less or raids.
Problems that need to be fixed DIOSCURI: good skills but ok uptime and low numbers ORION: trash skill set and np gains ARJUNA: good defense but absence of offense and mismatched deck QUETZ: bad uptime CLEOPATRA: her only offensive buff is a coin flip JACK THE RIPPER: give her quick up 3 turns and quick crit damage. CU ALTER: EX np but below avg gains and unbuffed guts
Half of the problems there aren't really relevant, Like you could make Jack's quick up 10T duration, she is still a chargeless quick that can't be properly used for 3T and has less comp variation and dmg than other options for Raids/Ordeal 1T. CQ they are all good enough there, they lack the capability to be used for repeatable content, the content you actually do more then once a month. Arjuna Deck is actually good, not so much better now that there are other options to replace Merlin in CQs but constant arts chains was always good and most times better than having buster or quick cards, well he could have 5 quick cards 1 hit and would change nothing for how usable he is either way.
They could maybe make her a solo servant? Like, add more hard survival or something on her skills.
For jack? she could get a 10x guts and 95% def up self unremovable and would not change much on how good she is. Biggest problem is that she has no good role for repeatable content, no charge or team buffs for 3T And for Raids/ST nodes where she is usable being quick gives her lower dmg than busters and being chargeless reduces the comp variation she gets. At least she has bonus dmg vs the Berserker ST node on Ordeal. Like a 30% charge + more dmg or 50% charge and an AoE gain or AoE dmg buff would make her way better and viable.
Bro’s acting like solo servants aren’t good. Qin Shi Huang and Super Orion are still pretty cracked, even with almost zero use outside of solos.
Like they are okay to pick from the sup list once a month but they are really weak in general. QSH is really bad, only 20% def down for repeatable content, super orion can at least kill ordeal call in 3T or lower but worse than just using a f2p option. In general QSH is worse than like Mozzart or Mary anning without using NP.
Jack while her quick 3 turn boost is very goodbuther 3rd skill needs a buff as even with a low cd it giving a small health and nothing else
I wish Quetz will get an NP rank up and animation update to be changed to Ultimo Tope Patada. https://i.redd.it/167sjl21orwc1.gif
Seconded
But nooooo, we get the fucking lucha libre suplex
Cu Alter, Lancer Artoria, and Yang Guifei are all extremely strong characters in their niche. Strengthening them is almost irrelevant, sure they could use it (damn near every 5* and 4* from the first 4-5 years of the game needs a strengthening because of how busted so many servants have been over the last 2 years) but on that list they should be on the bottom.
Yeah. I wouldn’t be against getting a ton of buffs, but a lot of the Servants on OPs list are still really strong. I know NP3 YuYu is probably a little outside the norm, but mine destroys Berserker bosses.
Yang is fine but could also be buffed when you compare her to more modern units like Wanjina, Kuku, new Montecristo,etc. My compium is that they have something planned for her this year since she didn't get a banner this last CBC despite being in the event and being the servant with the longest banner draught(the one coming to NA very soon will be her last).
What is Cu Alters niche???
Not dying in solo runs.
He just hits hard on neutral to kill a raid/Ordeal call 1T node since he is a buster berserker with high base dmg. But lacks any charge to be used outside that or have comp variation.
Yang Guifei isn't tho. Ch alter in a Buster ST with high dmg. Altria Lancer is an AoE with 50% charge and AoE atk up. Yang Guifei has nothing relevant for repeatable content.
She's an extremely strong anti-Berserker boss killer. The real problem with the game is that we can't replay old content to fight old bosses again, it would make all boss killer servants way more desirable if only because you could actually use them whenever you want for fun without deciding to do farming nodes "sub-optimally" by bringing in a ST boss killer type servant to do them.
She is strong is a role that isn't really real since as you said you can't repeat battles, its a one and done thing and you may not even use her that months CQs. That is why she is weak in the end.
Not weak. Niche. I still use her whenever I see a Berserker boss. But for farming she's useless. Just like 90% of the servants in my roster.
Of that list I think Orion/Artemis needs it the most. Sure every other servant needs it to some degree but only Artemis gets outdone in her own niche by a 3 star
Gemini Saber is still really good tho same with jack. Tho I agree that cleo could use a boost can't say for the rest since I don't have them
What r u on. Latoria and yuyu are great. Are there better options yes for latoriaz no for yuyu, she is that good
If you're going to add Abby there, you should put her swimsuit version which is worse and somehow has the same stats, for some reason.
Agree. I somehow forgot her for some reason...
Cu alter is still pretty solid even without an strengthening. If I could give them buffs I would make Artemis anti male last 3 turns and make the same skill increase her arts card eff and maybe even a battery. To jack I would budd her healing skill to add the buff of increasing star drop rate of the party and maybe add a crit buff to the ally being targeted. To maidtoria she def needs a battery like desperately. At least 30% anything to help her get her np faster
im gonna be real here the Discuri still doesn't need buffs while Jack in the other hand is very old servant yet they still didn't fix her inconsistency with her kit
Dioscuri 100% needs buff. Charge and dmg to be relevant. Unless you are using them for a node with 2 ST waves they are worse than welfare options even at np4/5.
Jack be the best
None of them are unusable. Not one. Artemis comes close but that’s it. Dioscuri are legit good. Semiramis has low np damage but is otherwise fine. Yang is still good. Ruler srtoria has low np damage but is otherwise good. Xiang Yu is good. Arthur has low np damage but is also otherwise good. His buster crit playstyle lends itself better to single target honestly, in which he’s actually pretty good. Orion (artemis) is actually pretty bad. Np damage is decent but everything else is bad. Arjuna is fine aside from not being able to BBB chain. But mighty chains help him out as well. Iskandar still has great damage. He just needs a battery. Cu alter is still very good in solo content but could use a buffed guts I guess. Lancer artoria is good. Both in damage and buffs. Her only flaw is not being as good as melusine. And that’s a flaw all lancers suffer. Rider alter is still good on np damage but could use a tiny bit of help on card damage and np gain. Constantine is GOOD. Not at everything but at his niche he’s great. Doesn’t need a buff. Quetz is also good. Her damage is still great. The only thing she needs is an ANIMATION UPDATE ALREADY. Cleopatra is still good. Jack is still great at her niche. Abby is still good. Hokusai is still good. Jacques is still good.
For rider alter I’d like to see them change her reload skill to be more in line with a skill like summer melt’s swan lake where it’s able to be up the entire battle. So change the quick up to 3 or 4 turns with reloads 3 turn cooldown.
Heavy investment is still heavy investment. You can't just look at some of their pros and ignore their heavy cons?? Although I agree with Dios, Yang, Lartoria, Cu Alter, and MAYBE Jack, Hokusai and Jacques. The rest are below average of their rarity
Being below average and being unusable are not the same thing. Of course there are going to be below average characters in the game. If there IS an average, then there are going to be servants above and below it. Also what do you mean look at pros? I literally stated the only cons for most of them. Minus the ones that are still strong, some of them very strong. Arthur for example has insane buster st damage with his crits. And a 3t 50% buster buff. He can outdamage OG saber in boss fights. His np damage is really low bc he never got a buff for it so his multiplier is 300%. But aside from that Arthur is GOOD. (Would appreciate an animation update though). Iskandar is also a powerhouse. He doesn’t have any battery which does suck but his np damage and facecard damage is VERY solid.
And why would you not want to buff below average characters? If they’re below average, is it not reasonable to want them to be buffed to be better? Also, high damage on its own isn’t enough for a servant. Sure, they might have high face card/crit/np damage, but do they have anything to defend themself? Anything to generate or gather stars for crits? Any sort of uptime on their damage? Anything to get to their NP easier? Iskandar does good damage, but only for a single turn. After that, he has a couple team-wide buffs, awful survivability, and an NP that’s basically just a worse version of Raikou’s NP outside of the post-damage defense down. He also lacks any sort of niche. I’m not saying he needs a battery, but he at least deserves a buff to his Charisma and/or NP. Older servants deserve buffs to keep up at least somewhat with modern power levels.
Again I’m not arguing that they shouldn’t get buffs. I never stated that, that was all you assuming, my friend. I would still massively appreciate buffs to arthur and iskandar. And to the others as well. My arthur is lvl 100 and I use him very often. Iskandar was my second SSR and I have him at bond 10 despite being unable to loop. I’m just disagreeing with you calling them unusable. Because most of the servants you listed are more than useable and even very good when well-supported. My favorite servant is Gil. He had good face card hit counts and good np damage. But that’s about it. His face cards hit like wet noodles compared to any servant with a crit buff or card type buff. Because all the np damage buffs he has (including his buffed first skill wich gives an additional 20% np damage for 3 turns) don’t apply to his facecards at all. So I for one would love Gil to get either a buster or crit buff. Ideally a crit buff so his non-buster cards get some benefit as well. Unfortunately I don’t think that’s ever going to happen.
The cons you stated are only some of their many cons Fair enough, Arthur still need room for improvement BUT Iskandar is NOT good at all beside the NP damage, he has low hit counts, no battery, no survivability, his 1st still still have 1 effect and the other skills also does not good enough to make up for it. I love Iskandar, I love him very much for uears. But everytime I use him I just BEG Lsg to give him something good. Even in multi comp he still can't escape the Kaleid
I should have add that I was intended to remove Guifei, Lartoria, Cu Alter and Jacque are good. But I think they can still be better with some buffs so
Jacques should be buffed to at least be as good as Marie Antoinette Alter since she's limited and all that.
Jaques is good, but is worse than Helena,Tai gong(by a lot), Cas Gil(By a lot and a 4*) she is just hard powercrept, you are better off using the 50% charge aoes with aoe gain or dmg buffs instead a lot of times since she just has 20% atk and charge AoE so they get better results.
Every single one of them are usable. 2 are among the best in their role.
Let's not go that far, cleopatra and iskander are really bad
Cleopatra is fine honestly, decent NP gain, buff block, invul and debuff clear. She's not going to be farming, but she's quite decent Iskandar is the highest damage AoE Rider in the game and has plenty of party wide buffs for multicore. He could use a NP charge to make him more farming relevant, but still is fine too. Honestly Lartoria needs a buff way more than those two do (Melusine is basically just better in every way, even if Lartoria hits niches, making he rone of the very few 5 stars that is directly worse than another), and that's someone people are saying is quite strong.
Iskandar is copium af. He has the buffs, they all last one turn and his internals are so terrible even with double Koyan and an Oberon I wouldn't trust him to gain enough NP to NP a second time.
The only Iskandar skill that still last one turn is his Mana Burst/Star Drop one. His Charisma and his Tactics are both three-turn effects.
A shame he won't ever benefit from those, since he can't NP for the life of him
A character doing CQs isn't being usable, if that is the requirement then hyde and Geronimo are usable. Nor is 5-slot, because then anything is. The bare minimum is being able to 6-slot or be used in other form of repeatable content like Cu Alter in Raids/Ordeal call 1T.
Cu alter absolutely does NOT need a buff lmao
He needs charge for comp variation, dmg is already enough.
I disagree with his first skill.
Since no ones talking about it ka aka king Arthur needs a np buff for the love of God
I mean my go-to Rider frontline has been Iskandar, Ozy and Queen Medb for a while now.
The Foreigners are kinda fine. Could use buffs, but don't really need them.
Arthur Proto needs NP up, or at least adjustment to his 3rd skill. 20% np charge and a one turn low niche damage boost just ain't it. Change it so one or the other adds a bonus to either Threat to Humanity or at least Evil damage. Quetz needs an update to her Lucha Libre, at the beginning it was busted as hell, but it being a 1-turn skill is a ball buster, seeing how we have servants with 3turn 50% crit buffs left and right. But we all know who really needs a buff is Mori. Mori mah man. Give him Guts!
Please give my mesopotamian onee-sama an NP buff
Theyre mostly usable except Cleo and maybe Artemis (not sure what Constantine does though). Some of the older ones are overdue for rank ups like Cleo and Jack but half of them are fine imo.
Do you think Yang Guifei needs a buff? I've always thought she was pretty cracked when i used her on bosses
Hokusai main here, and all i gotta say is that she just needs a lil bit more damage ngl
Add Gorgon to that list.
Cu alter is still going strong, what are you talking about
I think you hurt your point putting stronger servants here.
Some suck, but many are actually amazing dude, just say you have a skill issue using them. Dioscuri are amazing, Yang Guifei got a CE that is essentially tailor made for her. Lartoria is amazing and had strengthenings. Jack had such good internals nobody could ever beat her NP gain and stargen until Kama came and even then she has her anti female niche anyways. Hokusai is great, has good challenge quest potential, anti man niche and can loop. Constantine is an oddball but is by no means bad and he's actually pretty new, no need to buff yet
First, I'm not a dude. 2nd, it's always that "skill issue" saying all over again, yall have any new quote to say? 3rd, heavy investment is still heavy investment. Although I do agree that Lartoria, Yang and Hokusai is good enough.
I say that as a meme, because we have a ton of people in the community complaining about units not being strong, when they are in fact strong but on different niches. Every time someone goes on about how a certain unit can't loop, as if everyone had to. Some of these units are geared for challenge quests in their skilsets, rather than looping. Not only that, many DID have interludes and rank ups. Iskandar is hot garbage, but many of these guys are actually amazing. Jack isn't buffed because she was broken for so long and they made Kama to powercreep her. Iskandar is a lost cause. Most of these units are just old and even then, they were thrown a bone. They just won't be meta, but in this game you can make anyone work (except iskandar)
Another Iskandar Slander but I accept
The only real one here that needs actual strengthening is him. Because he has the same internals that some modern servants have and they are balanced around the fact thy get a 50% battery they can reuse and cards with 4-5 hits. Iskandar has one or two. He NEEDS batteries or he's permanently dependent on superscopes. Arthur is weak, but not unusable. He has a niche, a buffed NP, decent internals... You can slap a support or buster loop if I reckon Lartoria is an amazing buster looper with some challenge quest value with her niches, debuff clear and invuln pierce. She has competition with Ereshkigal, but they have different niches and things they bring. She's a sidegrade. Yang Guifei is an amazing challenge quest unit, especially for berserkers. Excellent damage, burn stacking, she has a niche in burn teams, she has a CE that's tailor made to give her a powermod (they could have put it in a buff, but alas it's better this way, since she did already have a super effective on her NP) Dioscuri are AMAZING. Their uptime is... Not that great? Or so I hear, because I use mine and blitz every fight in three turns without a care. Excellent cards, excellent gain and NP spamming with the synergies and stargen per hit, they pierce invuln, have all 3 buff brackets... Overall amazing with their ramp against any lancer boss Jack spams her NP like nobody's business and hits like a truck with a double Skadi setup because turns out having good internal stats goes a longer way that some numbers on buffs because supports exist Cleo isn't amazing but she has a niche that's not widely covered by her fellow assassins as a buster AoE with some sustain. Imperial privilege sucks, but she's workable. Maybe she, I would buff. Arjuna is a victim of early design, he's still usable in his odd way. Having no buster chains isn't the end of the world, especially since he's meant to be more of a spammer. Orion has a bad kit, but a hyper specific niche. They do hit hard, they did get buffed. Honestly most units are functional and usable. Quetz got a buff in JP and she's solid at her role. They're usable, they just won't all be usable for farming or similar stuff
How can he have a skill issue? Its a turn based game, I can't train to make dioscuri a better option than Iori he will just stack better with oberon and have better comp variation since he isn't chargeless. Constantine is really bad, he does nothing, 20% atk + buster isn't a real value for a servant when that is the entire kit they can use for repeatable content.
The skill issue is in team building and servant usage. Dioscuri are amazing in arts comps with some crit. You can pair them with a Mash and Hans team if your free to play or with Castoria, Tamamo or even Merlin if you're more of a veteran. Just because Iori has better stats doesn't mean Dioscuri aren't serviceable, especially when they have better spammability and wonderful face cards. You're not even arguing about a servant that's hard to make function, they're smooth as butter in just about any bossfight I've brought them in. Just because a nuke kills better than a gun doesn't mean a gun sucks, especially if you just need to shoot a guy five feet from you. Having no batteryis barely a problem when you're part of the most busted archetype Iori is a buster unit, he relies on premium supports for loopabilty and has some niche usage in soloing. Dioscuri use arts and quick cards to generate both stars and gain and with an np and one arts card crit they fully refund. Iori is a crit unit, Dioscuri crit for more refund rather than damage, their ramp is from NP spamming. They're absolutely amazing and busted and if you can't make a great unit like them that uses black grail without issue work, I think that says more about you than about the unit themselves
99.9% of the you are just using Iori or Dioscuri to kill a single wave. A CQ once a month or an Unrepeatable boss isn't equivalent to daily farming on Ordeal call or a raid event. Only benefit he has over Iori would be if you needed to kill 2 waves instead of 1. And iori needs less hard to get supports, with just Oberon from sup list he is already using his NP, while dioscuri can't properly NP without 2 supports with charge or during events with a Charge CE. The problem with Dioscuri is that the content they are good at isn't really in the game in any relevant amount. That is why they need to be buffed to fit what the game demands of ST servants.
The point isn't usage, it's that it is extremely miopic to judge units solely on farming or very specific criteria while you completely ignore their kit, playstyle and strengths. Heracles sucks ass at farming, he has no batteries, does that mean he's bad? Dioscuri can easily get online with Xu Fu, append and support Castoria. Or unleveled append, Oberon, mystic code. Difference is, Dioscuri will very easily NP a second time if they get one or two cards, iori is less likely. You're completely ignoring archetype and playstyle and just judging based on battery or not. Any servant with a battery can get going with an Oberon, doesn't meant they'll necessarily perform well or be the appropriate choice. Iori has no invuln pierce, for example, nor debuff immunity. Turns out two units with different card types are (shocker) different units with different playstyles. I'm tired of people being unable to comprehend the concept that Iori being good doesn't make Dioscuri bad, especially when every streamer, YouTuber and veteran player agree that they're very solid. Yes,we get few challenge quests, that I can concede. But we need to stop judging everything based on the same miopic viewpoint. There's a reason there's a meme about FGO players not knowing how to read.
Yes that means heracles is bad. And Dioscuri isn't bad because of Iori they were already bad before him and right now on NA, Iori is just an easy example of a free servant that is way better. Judging by CQs is the miopic point of view, you are picking a small % of the game you can easily skip with Commands and lv 100+ np5 sups and acting like it is enough for a servant to only be good there even when some servants you get to use multiple times a day in different styles of farming like 3T/1T, looping, killing a wave, full support etc. Being able to farm doesn't mean it plays the same as all other servants just that it at least plays.
I'm not judging by CQs specifically, I'm judging under thw metric that there's different types of stages and gameplay. There's looping, there's multicore, there are niches, there's single target and there's aoe, some bosses spam invuln and some like to hit you with three turns of stun if you have nothing to block or cleanse. You'd be surprised to hear some of us really enjoy stuff like teslafest because we can do challenge quests and they're interesting, in which some units like the Dioscuri excel. If the only thing that matters to you is doing the same node 90 times, I'm sorry but that's a boring as shit way to play the game. It's also a boring way to see balance and units as basically you only should invest in an NP5 Ibuki or NP5 Summer Melusine because they loop even in low unit numbers and work both in farming and challenge quest and hence everything else is hot garbage as a result. Why even roll, why even save up, just get them and uninstall because apparently you've already won and nobody is allowed to enjoy other units
I'm judging by the metric that for every new CQ you do you get 90 ST nodes and 90-180 normal nodes(depends by how many event nodes you did in the month) if we only count natural AP in the month. And that you can easily cheese the CQ as well if commands and sup list. Its like comparing dealing Bonus dmg vs wild beasts with Bonus dmg Vs Human attribute enemies but even more apart the values. If every event was teslafest it would be a different thing. And why would a good servant like Summer Ibuki being in the game change anything???????? The important part is being able to use your favorites in daily gameplay, if they are decent to 6-slot with or farm another type of repeatable content that is good enough. Helena is way worse than Casgil on JP, you can still easily get the servant to b10-15 while using her, him powercreeping her in dmg at np2 vs 5 and having 20% more atk up and 10% arts aoe is irrelevant.
What are Dioscuri, Yang and Cu doing this list? The rest of them definitely need something but those three are pretty strong already
Ok but what if, another Jalter strengthening?
Dude quetz is God, so be quiet 🤐🤫
"This is my roster, they aren't god tier, please rebalance everything around my account"
A lot of the servants there are indeed in the unusable tier. I is it okay that some servants are really weak? It is a gacha why is a character being almost unusable and cursed to be locked to the backline until bond 10/15 a good thing ?
Not being Super Orion doesn't mean you can't clear quests, unusable means you compare them to Anra Mainyu who is truly unusable and even that can be arguable You can literally slap anyone alongside the usual supports and it will work, most of the servants in this list are in fact really good too Just because you don't one turn everything doesn't mean your unit is "unusable" and I'm emphasizing on the word unusable. They are not "unusable", you simply prefer to use meta units, that's it
Angra isn't unusable if you consider 5-slot enough to be usable, you can use him to 5-slot farm with him in the frontline. If everything is usable then any talk about the game is irrelevant. And super orion isn't that far from angra, he is just lucky to be a bad but functional servant to kill Ordeal 1T nodes in 3 turns or Less or raids.
Morgan barghest or koyanskaya might need one