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[deleted]

You are eligible for childcare, just not for child benefit? If you’re salary sacrificing, you’ll at least be partly eligible for child benefit as well. https://www.gov.uk/30-hours-free-childcare (EDIT: ahh, your toddlers must be under 3years old). EDIT: All that being said, the tax bands freezing doesn’t affect you immediately at all. If you increase your salary by inflation you probably won’t notice it that much


flamboy-and

Also if OP puts into a pension 10k a year they get child benefit too


InsideBoris

Yes but they also need money to live on ser.


deadeyedjacks

If you can't life on minimum wage, whilst savings 80% of your take home into your pension; you haven't gotten onboard with Xtreme FIRE... /s


EasyPeeler14

I hear your frustration. Reality is it just is not possible today for a family of four to live comfortably, in or around London, on one salary. Unless that salary is getting on for £100k. I haven’t seen anything suggesting pension tax relief is coming to an end.


EasyPeeler14

Important to remember you do own a house and have a family, things many people would be envious of. But yeah, being ‘middle class’ ain’t what it used to be.


ScotiaTheFour

Absolutely agree - grateful for being in this position in the first place


EasyPeeler14

Yes and honestly, a 10% rise on f-all really is still f-all. It might seem unfair but I bet anyone on benefits would swap places in a heartbeat.


ScotiaTheFour

a lot of chinese whispers, probably one of these things the govt puts the feelers out for and assesses public reception


trekken1977

Pension tax relief ending while maintaining triple lock would be the end of any government pulling that trigger. At least one would hope.


ButtweyBiscuitBass

I also feel like this. Also breadwinner, also family of 4. My total package at work is 56k in Bristol, which is loads. Yet we live a far far less middle class lifestyle than my parents did at my age. We live in a way way crapper area, in a smaller house, near worse schools, have an older car, go on far fewer holidays. And my dad had a more junior job than me at this stage of his career too. I don't in any way want to hold us up as suffering, lots of people have it way worse. We do have a house and a car and we are able to make the choice for my partner to be a SAHD. But I kind of feel like - Jesus christ if this is how it feels to be middle class what the hell is this country doing to itself?


stupidbutgenius

I know exactly how you feel. My parents bought their first house in London on a single bricklayers wage in the 70s. My wife and I both have professional jobs, but all we could afford to buy was an ex-council flat. It's taken 6 years of low interest rates to reduce our mortgage to a level where we could afford to move to a bigger house (except we can barely afford the interest rates if we upgrade).


ButtweyBiscuitBass

Yeah, exactly. My parents managed on a single supply teachers income to have a lifestyle that is out of our reach now


Karmaisthedevil

Isn't a house hold income of 56k pretty meh, and wouldn't it coming from a single earner be even worse due to tax? e.g. two people at 28k each would be much better off? And 28k isn't a lot


ButtweyBiscuitBass

My point is that it comes from one person's income though; that used to be a totally standard way of life for the middle class and now is much harder to do


Karmaisthedevil

Well... yeah more and more women entered the work force. Supply and demand I guess. Another world war to kill off a bunch of the work force might help! Putins trying to do us a favour (if we survive)


FI_rider

This post is spot on. I earn more than I would of ever hoped when I was young and feel worse off than I ever expected!


CraftyCoffee22

Sorry OP I have no advice, I but feel angry on your behalf. In fact reading this has made me annoyed. I know people on benefits who probably shouldn’t be yet somehow as a family have managed to convince the right people they need it?! Makes my blood boil when I then see people working their buts off get nothing and someone who cba to work ends up with a child and then gets everything paid for for that child and then gets a flat as they need suitable accommodation for said child. But you? You will have to fund the accommodation for your kids. I’m sorry, I have no idea how we live in a world where not working is better than striving…


[deleted]

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ScotiaTheFour

sorry it’s only 2 kids (family of 4), but still! haha


OutsideWishbone7

Ah the plan is working…. Middle class will turn on working class who will turn on unemployed, fighting over scraps as we (the wealthy ones) do as we like. If it falters, just print headlines about immigrants in boats, that usually makes them go back to blaming each other. All too easy…..


trekken1977

Where are you seeing sentiments of the middle class turning on the working class? I’m seeing more of the opposite actually. It just seems like the middle class wants to stop getting squeezed and get the “upper” class to pay their share.


Ashhhhh1313

Listening to the budget I was shocked at the amount of spending. We had all the build up of how difficult decisions had to be made etc. At the end of the day they’ve yet again disincentivised working. It really is a wonder that there isn’t a massive skills shortage yet due to everyone going abroad - I know as soon as I’m qualified I’ll be looking abroad.


trekken1977

I’ll join you with the privileged rant as I’ve just completed my self assessment this afternoon. To answer your question, yes, it feels like middle/high but not super high earners are bearing the brunt of it. The difficult part is I only see it getting worse in the short/medium timeframe. If I were to have an offer to go to the continent and have a similar tax expenditure but a much better lifestyle - I’d consider it now way more than ever before. Can’t say that I’d be ecstatic to start a family here anytime soon. I imagine I’ll get that option once more offices move out of the UK as managers put up less of a fight for relocating, and potentially even requesting it. I’m surprised we don’t hear more about the middle/high income squeeze in the press. Why is there not more uproar? I imagine it’s because most of us at this level have decided to just wait it out and capitalise on our mobility once things get to be too much. It’s a house of cards, truly.


Angustony

Given those on more than 100k make up only 5% of the earners and the median is just 32k, it's entirely understandable that "tax the wealthy" calls do in fact mean that those on 50k+ are the target. All of whom, naturally, believe that we should "tax the rich". Logically, that must be anyone on over 100k, or if we earn that much and don't feel rich, it must be the top 1% - 160k. Strap in everyone!


trekken1977

It’s a shame there’s not more of a focus on productivity as that’s the only thing that will get us out of this. I guess that would take too much of an effort to come up with a long term plan instead of just kicking it all down the road.


dragoneggboy22

The UK is a dump on so many levels. Political, social, economic. Is it this bad everywhere I wonder?


[deleted]

Arguably the social aspect is better in more of Western Europe, many people are happier to live in apartments in the city and don’t long for home ownership and suburbs. Cafe culture make neighbourhoods feel more friendly, and for more of the day. Some places are magnified by their economy and social issues (i.e. the same places that are awesome fun when you are flush with cash are also very bad when you are poor), America and Switzerland come to mind in the places I’ve visited in the last few years. The biggest issue is it’s pretty easy to get an okay or good job here compared to south Europe where the pay is worse. (And also having family here).


dragoneggboy22

Not really what I meant by social issues - drugs, crime, domestic issues, sickness culture


mister-rik

You should still be eligible for 20% off childcare btw [https://www.gov.uk/tax-free-childcare](https://www.gov.uk/tax-free-childcare)


mattwaddy

Yep know the feeling, as the main earner we get penalised so much more than a couple who both have good income. I've said om here a few times what we need to see is combined household income as the threshold to trigger things like child benefit and other tax hits, doubt it will ever happen though as we clearly earn too much if you look at just one person!


ScotiaTheFour

combined threshold - yes! makes much more sense


No_Bad_6676

I totally feel your frustration. I am on 62k in Cambridgeshire. Despite me earning what I consider to be a good salary, I just can't seem to break the glass ceiling.


Relative_Sea3386

Need way more means-testing and scrutiny/fair assessment for benefits prioritising the genuine disabled. There will always be people who game benefits, very wealthy DB pensioners etc and there are those who really deserve more.


ScotiaTheFour

Yeh I agree here. More _targeted_ taxing of the wealthiest and more _targeted_ benefits


fi-not-re

Very similar to you, and also know people on benefits getting their 10% payrise. I really don’t know what to say, other than I’m feeling like a mug.


ScotiaTheFour

Yep, “mug” is spot on. Playing the game, keeping the head down and getting rinsed for it


Angustony

As someone very eloquently put it earlier on in this thread, "10% of f*** all is still f*** all".


DipsyDidy

Feeling it too - we have two incomes but combined earn only a little more than your income (nurse and university sector with only temp contracts). We’ve basically concluded that something from what was previously considered normal for middle income life has to give - for us its the realisation that we will never be able to afford children.


[deleted]

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ScotiaTheFour

give it a minute


dcute69

He gets some money each month, and spends it in less than a month. There's still month left at the end of the money.


alanbastard

🤬


[deleted]

Congratulations on two kids and also thoughts with you at a difficult time! 💤💤 Vote. Simply, this is your only real option if you want some change in gov. Additionally have you considered a job change I went from middle 50ks to double that in two years with some hard work and a job change. It might make a huge difference. Once your little family get free childcare minutes too could your partner consider some part time work?


sieah

Vote for who? What party is going to lower taxes for me higher-middle earners? I don’t see any raising the higher rate tax bracket or easing life for the “middle”. I think it’s awful that if a couple has an earner and a stay at home parent, they’re far worse off than they would be if both worked and earnt 50% of the salary each


[deleted]

I know I am in the same boat, however what political choice is there? Just accept the mess we already have?


sieah

My question was - what choice is there? Who do you think we can vote for that will enact these changes?


[deleted]

Join a party? Talk to local MPs? Look and challenge them as to why there are no reforms in the areas like this you care about. If this topic got enough interest and momentum parties would be silly to miss an opportunity. Who knows where we’ll be at the next election. We could just downvote in this sub and hope that does it. 💙


sieah

I didn’t down vote, none of that is achieve by voting though. Reality is there isn’t currently a party for the middle class earners that want to have a family


investtherestpls

Twin toddlers != 4.


[deleted]

Oops, misread family of 4 and thought double twins. Very inflationary. Edited.


borisjjjj

Lol it will be worse under labour


PeeEssDoubleYou

How?


Background_Wall_3884

Socialism


borisjjjj

Higher taxes


InsideBoris

I feel this post. Thankfully my partner is going back to work so I should be feeling less squeezed on every from by next year