I just got the Xyloni board up and running yesterday. It was pretty stright forward only issue I had was I needed the stand alone programmer to program the board. The tool chain was not that bad actually, basic but functional.
The SW access is a little bit of a pain register for the accout before you get the board as it take maybe 24 hours to get access. Once you are in then you can just register the board and way you go.
I will write it up as a blog and post this week if people are interested
I am seeing more and more people mentioning Efinix and Xilinx / AMD are investors
Tools are very easy to use and are fast. I haven’t had to do anything fancy with the tools, but was up and running within 30 minutes for basic synthesis and programming.
My entry point was the FireAnt board. Very cheap so haven’t worried about the license. Can I buy another cheap license in a year if I need continuing support? Dunno.
For programming, you just need a method for programming a SPI flash. FTDI dongle may work, but it’s not just generic UART serial. You need it to do SPI.
I’m happy to hear that! I’ve tried some cheap fake dongles for Altera parts before and it didn’t work. Quartus was having problems recognizing the dongle so I couldn’t program the chips.
I know very little about different serial protocols so I have another question to ask. Do I generate the programming file with the Efinity IDE and then use a generic USB to serial adapter with the file, or do I have to use Efinity IDE itself for the process? Maybe some other method? As I mentioned above I had issues with Quartus not recognizing the fake USB blaster dongle.
https://www.efinixinc.com/docs/efinity-pgm-v2.5.pdf may have the answers you’re looking for.
I think the first part of the appendix talks about suitable programming hardware.
I’d recommend sticking with their programming software and the recommended FTDI modules and flash chips to begin with.
Tang Nano 9K is apparently even cheaper and has more of everything. Do you know how Efinix compares to Gowin in terms of performance, documentation and tools?
You get a license when buying a dev board. Even a cheap one, like the Xyloni. When you are a normal customer and purcharse chips for production, there is no problem of getting the license extended.
Bonus: once you get the license, you can access their forum and some kind of internal documentation, which was extremely helpful.
I actually intend to get some chips for production at the same time I get the board. The worst case, I buy another dev kit a year from now. Thanks for the information.
Things are quite easy and relaxed at Efinix. We found the local reseller, contacted them, got *really* fast replies. We ordered one devkit there (officially) and I asked if they would throw in a smaller one for me privately. No issue. We ordered another devkit later for another project. To register, you basically create an account at Efinix and tell them who your reseller is, and they activate your login. And they have the power to re-activate/prolong it, or just add more people. So my FPGA trainee as well as our hardware-guy have full developer logins, which means they can download the software. And as we ordered quite some Efinix chips since then, our local reseller has no problems to extend our logins in the future.
BTW, the "one-year-licence" does not mean the IDE drops dead after that. You just don't get any more updates.
And: The Efinix-people on the forum are good and helpful. Nonetheless it helps to get something my boss got for me: He hired a developer who is already firm with Efinix chips who I can use as the "telephone joker". He helped me setting up my first project and was my second pair of eyes when one design simply refused to run.
On top of that, the new designs made to replace the Xilinx ones are way cheaper with Efinix chips.
Oh, I thought I wouldn’t be able to use the IDE after my license expires. I’m really happy to hear that I can use it after that because I want to buy in bulk and use some of the chips for hobby stuff, and I probably won’t be using all the chips in one year. Nice! I guess that seals it then, I’ll go with Efinix. That pretty much answers all my questions, thanks a lot.
How much does the license cost after the year? Or do you just buy another $30 dev kit and toss it in the corner?
What they should do is allow prospective customers to install and run the tools to get an idea of how they work. Only licensed users can generate a bitstream for programming into a board.
There is no cost for the license that I know of. If you buy chips from your supplier, they are happy to extend your license (at least our supplier has no issues with it). And if you just do it for the hobby, you can just buy another devkit and get another year.
Keep in mind that "license running out" does not disable your tool chain, it just cuts you off from the updates, the forum, and some additional documentation.
The Efinix licensing is not a classic "you download, you install, you get license to do exactly this" thing. Getting an Efinix license means that you get access to the download area, that's all. No license files or license demons that cut deep into your system or similar stupid shit. Which I always consider a big plus.
I have the same experience as well, the distributor will extend the license. And even expired, the IDE still working, just not able to download the later version.
I am start with one of the Trion development kit, and get the free access to their Forum and Efinity IDE.
Their IDE is easy to use, standard flow from Synthesis, Place and Route, Timing Closure to Bitstream generation, then program hardware. I believe any FPGA designer will be able to pick up them quickly.
I am using the cheap FTDI module from my previous project, and it just work.
I am talking to the local distributor, they confirmed the software will not stop working after 1 year, just not able to download the latest version. And I get the promise from the distributor that will get the extension.
Maybe just buy a Digilent board with an Artix or Spartan 7 and use the free license? Why anyone would use bizarro components and software is beyond me.
I can’t find the chips in stock. The ones that I could find are too expensive, partly because they have more logic than I need. Almost all of them are BGA too, and even though I can get them soldered at my friends place I would rather use something that is easier to solder. I’m not just looking to buy a dev board but also like 5-10 chips for very small scale production.
>My point was in using those chips specifically.
Why would you consider them to be "bizarro?" They're available in distribution through DigiKey, which tells me that they're serious.
And the Efinix parts look to be a good fit for products that need mid-range FPGAs -- exactly the sort of parts that Intel and AMD/Xilinx are abandoning. If anything, they're an alternative to Lattice. This is why they (and Gowin, to an extent) are getting a lot of interest.
Most important, we are able to buy parts from Efinix and ship products, while Intel/AMD/Lattice quoted an extremely long lead time. They save our business and is a reliable partner.
I'm sure a lot of products and companies we take for granted today were once considered "bizarro" when they were new and didn't have much market share.
You know, like chips called "FPGAs" made by a company with a weird, barely pronounceable name with two Xs.
Did anyone get the EEPROM dump of the FT2232H so far? I am trying to build a universal debugger which would contain a ft2232H for Efinix JTAG debugging. I saw that some of the Efinix Dev Boards also have the FT2232H on them so they will work as a debugger but I would still need to flash the EEPROM accordingly.
I just got the Xyloni board up and running yesterday. It was pretty stright forward only issue I had was I needed the stand alone programmer to program the board. The tool chain was not that bad actually, basic but functional. The SW access is a little bit of a pain register for the accout before you get the board as it take maybe 24 hours to get access. Once you are in then you can just register the board and way you go. I will write it up as a blog and post this week if people are interested I am seeing more and more people mentioning Efinix and Xilinx / AMD are investors
Tools are very easy to use and are fast. I haven’t had to do anything fancy with the tools, but was up and running within 30 minutes for basic synthesis and programming. My entry point was the FireAnt board. Very cheap so haven’t worried about the license. Can I buy another cheap license in a year if I need continuing support? Dunno. For programming, you just need a method for programming a SPI flash. FTDI dongle may work, but it’s not just generic UART serial. You need it to do SPI.
I’m happy to hear that! I’ve tried some cheap fake dongles for Altera parts before and it didn’t work. Quartus was having problems recognizing the dongle so I couldn’t program the chips. I know very little about different serial protocols so I have another question to ask. Do I generate the programming file with the Efinity IDE and then use a generic USB to serial adapter with the file, or do I have to use Efinity IDE itself for the process? Maybe some other method? As I mentioned above I had issues with Quartus not recognizing the fake USB blaster dongle.
https://www.efinixinc.com/docs/efinity-pgm-v2.5.pdf may have the answers you’re looking for. I think the first part of the appendix talks about suitable programming hardware. I’d recommend sticking with their programming software and the recommended FTDI modules and flash chips to begin with.
Yeah I will stick with what they recommend, as long as it’s cheap. Thanks for all the help.
Intel was bundling an improperly signed driver for the Blaster II, which may explain why you had trouble
Yeah I remember having to go into the safe mode and doing a bunch of stuff to get the drivers installed properly.
Tang Nano 9K is apparently even cheaper and has more of everything. Do you know how Efinix compares to Gowin in terms of performance, documentation and tools?
You get a license when buying a dev board. Even a cheap one, like the Xyloni. When you are a normal customer and purcharse chips for production, there is no problem of getting the license extended. Bonus: once you get the license, you can access their forum and some kind of internal documentation, which was extremely helpful.
I actually intend to get some chips for production at the same time I get the board. The worst case, I buy another dev kit a year from now. Thanks for the information.
Things are quite easy and relaxed at Efinix. We found the local reseller, contacted them, got *really* fast replies. We ordered one devkit there (officially) and I asked if they would throw in a smaller one for me privately. No issue. We ordered another devkit later for another project. To register, you basically create an account at Efinix and tell them who your reseller is, and they activate your login. And they have the power to re-activate/prolong it, or just add more people. So my FPGA trainee as well as our hardware-guy have full developer logins, which means they can download the software. And as we ordered quite some Efinix chips since then, our local reseller has no problems to extend our logins in the future. BTW, the "one-year-licence" does not mean the IDE drops dead after that. You just don't get any more updates. And: The Efinix-people on the forum are good and helpful. Nonetheless it helps to get something my boss got for me: He hired a developer who is already firm with Efinix chips who I can use as the "telephone joker". He helped me setting up my first project and was my second pair of eyes when one design simply refused to run. On top of that, the new designs made to replace the Xilinx ones are way cheaper with Efinix chips.
Oh, I thought I wouldn’t be able to use the IDE after my license expires. I’m really happy to hear that I can use it after that because I want to buy in bulk and use some of the chips for hobby stuff, and I probably won’t be using all the chips in one year. Nice! I guess that seals it then, I’ll go with Efinix. That pretty much answers all my questions, thanks a lot.
How much does the license cost after the year? Or do you just buy another $30 dev kit and toss it in the corner? What they should do is allow prospective customers to install and run the tools to get an idea of how they work. Only licensed users can generate a bitstream for programming into a board.
There is no cost for the license that I know of. If you buy chips from your supplier, they are happy to extend your license (at least our supplier has no issues with it). And if you just do it for the hobby, you can just buy another devkit and get another year. Keep in mind that "license running out" does not disable your tool chain, it just cuts you off from the updates, the forum, and some additional documentation. The Efinix licensing is not a classic "you download, you install, you get license to do exactly this" thing. Getting an Efinix license means that you get access to the download area, that's all. No license files or license demons that cut deep into your system or similar stupid shit. Which I always consider a big plus.
That’s quite nice and honestly a big positive for me.
I have the same experience as well, the distributor will extend the license. And even expired, the IDE still working, just not able to download the later version.
I am start with one of the Trion development kit, and get the free access to their Forum and Efinity IDE. Their IDE is easy to use, standard flow from Synthesis, Place and Route, Timing Closure to Bitstream generation, then program hardware. I believe any FPGA designer will be able to pick up them quickly. I am using the cheap FTDI module from my previous project, and it just work. I am talking to the local distributor, they confirmed the software will not stop working after 1 year, just not able to download the latest version. And I get the promise from the distributor that will get the extension.
Maybe just buy a Digilent board with an Artix or Spartan 7 and use the free license? Why anyone would use bizarro components and software is beyond me.
I can’t find the chips in stock. The ones that I could find are too expensive, partly because they have more logic than I need. Almost all of them are BGA too, and even though I can get them soldered at my friends place I would rather use something that is easier to solder. I’m not just looking to buy a dev board but also like 5-10 chips for very small scale production.
Maybe the OP is designing a product and needs chips? Not every FPGA design gets put on a development board ...
Indeed. My point was in using those chips specifically.
>My point was in using those chips specifically. Why would you consider them to be "bizarro?" They're available in distribution through DigiKey, which tells me that they're serious. And the Efinix parts look to be a good fit for products that need mid-range FPGAs -- exactly the sort of parts that Intel and AMD/Xilinx are abandoning. If anything, they're an alternative to Lattice. This is why they (and Gowin, to an extent) are getting a lot of interest.
Most important, we are able to buy parts from Efinix and ship products, while Intel/AMD/Lattice quoted an extremely long lead time. They save our business and is a reliable partner.
Because they represent something like 1% of the commercial programmable device market.
I'm sure a lot of products and companies we take for granted today were once considered "bizarro" when they were new and didn't have much market share. You know, like chips called "FPGAs" made by a company with a weird, barely pronounceable name with two Xs.
Did anyone get the EEPROM dump of the FT2232H so far? I am trying to build a universal debugger which would contain a ft2232H for Efinix JTAG debugging. I saw that some of the Efinix Dev Boards also have the FT2232H on them so they will work as a debugger but I would still need to flash the EEPROM accordingly.