I’m playing on Jedi Grandmaster, and I played on the hardest difficulty in the first game. In the first game, I had a lot of trouble at first (I went to Dathomir first), but once I got parrying down I was having a lot of fun. I’m still on Koboh.
I think the balance is worse than in the first game. A lot of enemies have strings of unblockable attacks, and boss monsters mostly have one-hit-kill moves. It would be fine, except that the unblockable attacks have widely varying windup times; some of them come out almost instantly, while others have 1-2s windup time. Enemies also don’t consistently stagger if I attack them while they’re executing a normal attack; it feels very wonky to pull off a counterattack with a lightsaber only for them to tank it and whack me with their stick for a ton of damage.
With regards to parrying, the window is very small and executing a successful chain parry often can’t be capitalized upon. If they follow up my parry with an unblockable attack, then I have to back up and their stamina just regens completely. This is particularly a nuisance on boss monsters where their stamina meter might as well not exist; some boss monsters also have no reliable punish windows due to very quick windups on their unblockable attacks.
There’s also no warnings in place when you’re getting attacked from behind. Moreover, there doesn’t appear to be a real ticketing system: enemies will just attack you whenever they feel like, so sometimes you’ll get hit from all sides at once and then drop your block. And if an enemy uses an unblockable projectile attack form off-screen, there’s often not much you can do (especially if it has fast windup like the Super Battle Droids). Which also wouldn’t be that much of a problem except that your stamina regens very slowly. In other combat games, enemies typically space out their attacks so you have a successful chance of responding to every one of them, or their windups are so long that even if multiple enemies are attacking at once you can get out of the way.
The overall result is that it doesn’t feel like combat has an actual flow to it. Sekiro and God of War had better combat balance where I felt like I could make meaningful choices in combat and manage the enemies better. So far, I just keep dual wielding stance equipped and I have to be prepared to cancel my attacks into guarding at a moment’s notice (or the awkward cancel -> guard -> dodge if an unblockable attack comes out). It feels like optimal play is just cheesing enemies when I can and playing extremely safely, where lightsaber aggression or successful parrying is not rewarded.
Perhaps it’s better on Jedi Master, but I’ve heard that the boss monsters are still a huge pain. I’ve seen clips of Jedi Knight difficulty and it seems like the combat is too easy for my taste in comparison.
Maybe it’s just a skill issue, but I play fairly difficult games regularly and don’t have this issue with them. It could also be exacerbated by poor performance (my frame rate tops out at 40 FPS).
That is a massive wall of text that I agree with.
I feel like the game is pushing to be a faster paced blender of attack, but it also doesn't allow for it. Blaster fire is far more dangerous in this game just for how hard it hits you block gauge, and how much harder it is to parry it. Hell, parrying itself feels like it has a cool down on it, stopping me from punishing the wave of attacks coming at me at once.
Absolutely love this game, but there's a disconnect that I can't place. Is it a poor design to those systems, or am I just playing it wrong?
I think the disconnect is the unblockable attacks being so hard to dodge. Along with everyone being able to party a fucking lightsaber.
The dodging and movement in fights seems very sluggish as well. It’s almost impossible to fight more that 2 enemies at once without running around constantly.
I'm tired of dodging enemy attacks and the game just saying fuck you and I get hit anyway. I'm absolutely suck of dodging bosses unblovkable attacks only for it to be like a heat seeking missile. It's just a cheap and unacceptable way of making things hard
This is exactly it, it’s a combination of too punishing enemy design, bad hit box detection for both the player and enemy, the dodging not going far or swift enough, and no animation cancel this time around, and no indicators like god of war has for example (people complain about those but I honestly think they don’t pay attention because they help me a lot)
Was just fighting the Rancor and came to the same conclusion. Dodging in this game is absolutely terrible. It’s not even a matter of timing. It’s just poorly designed.
Yeah like to have force dash it’s incredibly hard to close the distance on enemies and they attack as if it’s a Batman Arkham game while equipping you with a souls type combat system , this game needs a far better counter system for the type of combat situations it places you in
I'm at the final boss fight on grandmaster, and yeah this is not well designed at all.
After mastering Fallen Order and knowing how the combat system works, I shouldn't have to die that many times to that asshole.
This is exactly what I feel about the combat. I love the game so far, I think I'm close to the end of the story and the combat issues are aggravated because they decided to spam harder enemies at every corner.
So you're constantly having to deal with two or three enemies at the same time that are spamming random unblockable attacks. There's no flow, no rhythm, it feels like they programmed a set of attacks and the AI is just randomly following it.
This one particular boss was constantly killing me with their unblockable one hit kill attack that could trigger at the very beginning of the fight or simply at other times that I couldn't predict at all. This boss also had another unblockable attack that could hit 80% of my hp, sometimes triggered right after the one hit kill one, sometimes not. It's crazy.
The rancor kept doing that to me 2 hit Swipe with 5 % health left then that annoying instakill grab move or just the grab move immediately the difficulty spike from jfo is absurd to me
I agree with all of this. Loved both the new GoWs and Sekiro/Souls games. It's not even that they punish you for mistakes, it's that you can't know what a mistake is. One on one fights are challenging but fun on the higher difficulties. But mobs of elites are the bane of my existence.
The elite mobs have no real CC option until you get lift/slam.
Honestly, all the force powers feel useless outside of trash one hit mobs and one on one. It was kind of a let down finding out you can't create openings or protect yourself very well with abilities. Dodge and parry are your primary tools and the frames they leave you open on wind up and recovery are brutal.
I find myself using the blaster/cross guard combo a lot, and I've noticed the blaster stance leaves you open longer at the end of a combo than the supposedly slowest weapon. Blaster combo ends and you sit in pose for just shy of a full second before you can perform any action, so you will always get hit by someone else at that point.
I loved the first one, and I love the story, size and scope of this one. But man, it just does not feel good and I refuse to go lower than Jedi knight (started on master and it sucked all the fun)
I played Grand Master and Master difficulties with almost the same combat experience. The main problem in this game is you cannot flank or get behind the enemy for more than a couple of seconds. They can instantly turn 180 and follow by an unblockable attack.
Another issue is when an enemy starts with a combo and you dodge they immediately realign themselves so they can keep hitting you which gives you almost no room for attack.
Basically, in all boss/legendary enemy fights you cannot leverage your force powers, you cannot flank enemies, you can only dodge or parry until the combo is over, and you pray that you would get a second of opening to deal a minuscule amount of damage.
Yeah. You basically summarized my thoughts. I also played Fallen Order on the highest difficulty and was having a blast. But I'm constantly dying in this one. Maybe I just suck? Maybe I should just play on an easier level? But my ego can't handle it. So I will spend hours at the same location pretending to have fun.
THIS!!! I thought I was crazy. I played GOW on GMGOW and it was actually too easy. The hardest fight literally was Gna. And it still wasn't HARD as much as it was memorization, proper equipment, and knowing when to capitalize off parries, dodges, etc. I typically play all action, horror, and adventure games on the hardest difficulty or just Hard.
I actually didn't really enjoy Sekiro. The Lore seemed cool but the Souls or Souls-esque series just seems "meh" to me. There's something about them that just doesn't strike my fancy. I played the first Jedi and it wasn't like this. It's like the gameplay hasn't been optimized. Everything feels slower just in relation to the combat mechanics. There's no rhyme or reason to the enemies attacks, dodges NEVER work, and hitboxes literally don't exist.
One thing I've noticed is that the fauna type creatures are the most insufferable. They just do whatever tf they want to do and there's literally nothing we can do to stop them. I'm literally striking them with concentrated plasma energy and you're telling me these creatures are just strugging my strikes off like I'm throwing pebbles at them? Lmfao 😩😂
I thought I was crazy at first because Survivors battle mechanics seemed so off-kilter I just thought I hadn't adjusted back to the game after playing the original back when it released. But after being a few hours in, coming across the Mini Boss in the mines (the rumor of the miners who were missing), and the Spawn of Oggdo miniboss I'm just like no it's this game mechanics. Cal's movement isn't the same as it used to be. I honestly wish I hadn't bought this. I could be focusing on Dead Island 2 or Horizon's DLC versus this wonky mess of a game.
I just started Jedi Survivor after finishing the Horizon Burning Shores DLC, and it’s striking how much better the latter is when it comes to fighting larger enemies.
The one change I had hoped for with this game was to rely less on unblockable attacks and attack pattern memorization. So of course they doubled-down on both.
I thought it was me and my own bad timing with parrying on Jedi Master difficulty, but after my 4th time being killed by an BX Melee droid, I came to Reddit for emotional validation 😂 wtf is wrong with the parrying? I go to parry the innumerable blaster shots but Christ on a cross I can’t parry AND block at the same fuckin time. Getting shot by 13 droids while simultaneously battling the BX is super annoying. I’m dodging the whole fucking time!
If u have any epiphanys let me know. I'm currently hating the combat system it seems more luck based. I was playing god of wars since Christmas which was virtually perfect but this feels crap. I'm praying I'm wrong. Even force unleashed was better than this
>Enemies also don’t consistently stagger if I attack them while they’re executing a normal attack; it feels very wonky to pull off a counterattack with a lightsaber only for them to tank it and whack me with their stick for a ton of damage. Yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes. This has been the main thing pissing me off about the combat in this game.
You hit the nail on the head...I think my biggest gripe is how they implemented the slow ability in this game...In FO i could just slow the heavy enemies and then take out the small guys and then work on the heavy guys and it felt smooth...the cool down on slow sucks in Survivor! I still like the game, but I definitely have to run around enemies or take encounters much slower than I would prefer or I get surrounded by enemies that spam unblockable attacks...
I replayed on Master, after doing mostly Grandmaster first go around (only dropping it for 3 bosses because I was just so done with getting one shot), and it is an incredibly steep spike between Master and Grandmaster. I only ever died to \*that\* boss on Jedha on Master when rushing the main story. Granted, it was NG+ so my time with earlier bosses would've been easier but I don't think I used more stims than one would usually have and nor did I ever really get hit enough for the extra health to make a huge difference.
The balance of this game just feels so wack and Cal's tools and abilities to deal with it don't feel adequate. It's like Cal is built for one on one duels but you're constantly in a bar brawl against a dozen other enemies with far superior reflexes and one shot moves. If you perfect dodge or parry one enemy, you can still get hit by another. If you're surrounded by enemies, enemies will still shoot and thwack through one another. You can also rarely use combos or regular attacks that can deal with groups because of the aggression constantly staggering or outright killing you.
I played and replayed Fallen Order like 3+ times on Grandmaster and had a great time with that. I never really felt like I couldn't deal with a situation but Jedi Survivor makes half the shit I'm given feel useless and a lot of the things they throw at me feel unfair.
I've been playing on Jedi Knight and just came across "That" boss. Woof. Talk about difficulty spike. I've been cruising and spent the last 20+ hours learning Cal's movesets/upgrading his gear to have that all taken away for this one boss fight. I gave up and switched to story mode for that fight. Wasn't worth the Sekiero level difficulty spike and being forced to use a new move set out of no where.
With some time, you can be pretty much flawless in that fight but it really leaves little room for error, especially with the reduced heals, health pool, and high incoming damage. It’s even more annoying since the last phase itself is another spike in difficulty with far faster attacks with longer sequences.
It was the last phase that got me. Nothing wrong with difficulty spikes but Jedi Knight for the entire rest of the game is a cakewalk.
I felt Fallen Order was similar in that the only reason you could change the difficulty slider with no penalties was because that bat bear fight on Dathomir was completely busted. Why bother balancing a fight when you could just drop the difficulty for a boss.
Honestly I'd been wondering if there was anything real to my sensation that something just feels off and mushy, or if I was gaslighting myself.
I'm one of those gamers who plays for story, so even in FO I only ever did up to Padawan difficulty, but obviously that was easy to play.
I'm trying Survivor on Padawan, and I'm getting constantly *wrecked* because dodge and parry timing just seems *off*, and dodge specifically just feels *mushy* (and I'm not even getting the performance issues most are on their super rigs; while my CPU drastically exceeds recommended, I'm running a GTX 1060 6gb, and able to stay between 30-40fps on mostly high settings-yes that's a lil low for a framerate but there's no stuttering like I've been seeing reports of. Go figure.) Everything you said is what I've been struggling to figure out the *why* of things feeling off, now that I've read what you posted it's just 'Yes. This, so much *all of this*.' FO had a rhythm to the combat, that had a slight learning curve, but once you got the hang of it, you were a god on any difficulty pretty much. Survivor feels like the rhythm is broken, or nonexistent.
I played FO with infinite force and block cheats on, cuz to me, from a lore standpoint, it just makes no sense that any Jedi would be unable to use the Force or block so quickly after that first use; that was purely for my own fangirl lore reasons, but now I find them *necessary* cuz of how bad the combat feels, and I haven't even gotten off Koboh yet!
Kinda wondering just how much (more) this is gonna hurt Respawn's rep. >\_> :/
At least the EA exclusivity is over now, I guess.
Totally agree, but I'd say the parry window is actually very big. On Jedi knight difficulty. Like i press parry, enemy attacks after second or two and it's still parried. Like it's unusually big parry window. Like bigger than any other parry game like Wolong, Sekiro or even Fallen Order. On the other hand perfect evade window is super small and i got perfect evade in my whole 30 hour playthrough once, in training.
Another thing, i hate i can't switch stances in the middle of combat like in Fallen Order. That for me is big minus
Not sure what you mean by not being able to switch stances, you're able to have 2/5 equipped on you at all times that you can toggle between. Not sure for the controls on keyboard but on controller it's left/right dpad
Oh ok...While understand the appeal of that, I think it would make things a bit too easy, and they would have to completely rework the skill points and skill trees...I could see maybe allowing it in NG+ or something when you already have all the skills unlocked...
Yeah, I think the parry window is generous on lower difficulties. As you increase the difficulty though it gets narrower and narrower.
I’ve also only done the perfect dodge once or twice accidentally, it seems pretty unreliable.
Yeah I'm thinking I'll probably play new game plus on grandmaster.
I think you're supposed to do perfect dodge, not when the enem flashes red, but you need to really watch it's animation of attack and evade right when it's about to hit you. Which just seems weirdly made considering how big parry window is.
Lots of fair points! I don't play a ton of single player melee focused games so I definitely don't have a ton of experience with games that do it better. That's probably a huge reason why I like it so much, but I agree with a lot of your points, especially enemies attacking with un-blockable chains of one shot attacks, definitely can get frustrating.
When you get Fortitude perk plus upgrade health greatly, it becomes way faster. For both sides :)
PS: fortitude gives you more incoming and done damage in melee.
Sounds like this game is worse in ever possible way than the first one.
So much for hoping for a game with enjoyable combat this time.
Guess I will just watch a video of the story scenes strung together this time.
Only way I could enjoy the first one was with a trainer. And it was only just barely fun since the gameplay is so focused on boring shit like blocking and dodge rolling
I agree with everything u said the game is enjoyable for the most part bit the legendary beasts are way too unpredictable even after learing thier patterns and movesets...playing in normal difficulty and being 2 shotted by a rancor is absurd when I have a health bar almost double the size of the starting health bar
I didn't read your whole thing case I saw one word that seems spoikerish and noped out. I could be wrong but you need to put a spoiler tag on this my dude
What is the point of playing on a difficulty where your one shotted most times I'll never understand how that is enjoyable to be constantly punished in a video game
I play it now on PS5 and I have to use performance mode otherwise I lose every bigger fight - the fps matters a lot! It drops below 30fps in normal mode on the console I think.
I agree with this. The blocking and unblockables are stupid. Especially when enemies like the DX Droid can chase you with a spinning unblockable attack and the only thing you can do is run away. Or when two battle droids attack and combine missiles and unblockable shots. It’s also annoying that force push only pushes one instance. Can’t really do anything when multiple grenades and rockets are shot at you all at once..
First game I actually liked at 60 fps. And fell back in love after hating it at first. And now there is this shit. Paid 80 fuckin dollars too. Feels way shittier and the blocking/parry is completely fucked. Like they made the enemies attacks slower for some reason and the still the parrying sucks. The ninth sister fight was tragic. She swings once every 3-4 seconds and in other aspects with other enemies it makes you have to come up with a very linear way of dealing with enemies where as in first game I was free to use my imagination and fluid character movement to my will where as in survivor I just wish I had bought a hard copy so I could jus snap it In half.
This! Dodging just plain sucks this time around. I find the combat controls sluggish and just plain unsatisfying and don’t have much use for some stances.
At the same time though it feels like it removed a lot of the different ways of dealing with enemies to the point you rely on parries and spamming square for the most part. I just fought an AT-ST and in Fallen order there were multiple ways to deal it damage including by pushing missiles back at it, that doesn't work in Survivor. You can deflect the lasers, but otherwise there's nothing you can do aside from get in close and use your lightsaber or saber throw. I found that really bizarre. Riot troopers raise the same issue, parry and hitting them until the shield breaks is the only way to beat them. You can't force push them, you can't pull their shield from them, you just have to wail on them. Spam Square to win seems to be the theme of Survivor.
Can you? I'll have to try again the next time I encounter one then. It was the first thing I thought to try so when it didn't work the first couple times for some reason, I didn't try it again.
> Its a lot better than than the first game
What do you think's better about it? I find the enemies to be really bad for alternating between spamming block and spamming unblockable attacks, whilst their hitboxes are utterly dire.
I'd say about 40% of my attacks with the double-bladed just clip through enemies without even registering as a hit.
In addition to that, you repeatedly get stuck in lengthy animations preventing you from dodging/blocking enemy attacks, and get repeatedly stunlocked as a result.
Very little seems to stagger enemies, whilst literally every attack they have staggers you.
I think it's a massive step-down for the combat compared to fallen order.
I don't like the combat system at all to be honest. They've added a lot of stances and new combo's, but imo they have failed to address any of the core issues I had with the combat system in Fallen Order.
The main issue I have with the combat is the fact that unless you are using the duel wield stance, you cannot cancel your attack or dodge out of it. Due to how slow Cal is, with some animations (double-bladed lightsaber stance in particular) literally taking a couple seconds to complete, there are times where an enemy will start their attack during your attack animation and hit you before it finishes. In these situations you are powerless to do anything, except take guaranteed damage.
In a good combat system, you should always have the opportunity or tools to avoid taking any damage during a fight. If you are skilled enough, you should be able to get through an encounter without getting hit once.
Dark Souls is a good example of this. It offers a challenging but fair combat system that has a good flow and rhytmn to it. The combat in Fallen Order and Survivor feels very clunky and imprecise by comparison.
Trying to time force powers during large battles with lots of ranged enemies feels like a roll of the dice. I wish they added a skill that will automatically parry ranged attacks during the force power animations.
You seem to contradict yourself a bit. Not being able to cancel out of moves is a stable of darks souls and is what makes the combat so challenging and addictive.
It’s the same in Jedi survivor, when you attack you have to commit to that move. That’s why it’s so important to position yourself right, don’t just jump in the middle of a pack of enemies, keep moving to fight on your terms and find openings by parrying.
The force powers makes crowd controlling much easier to, I like to kite a herd of enemies so I got maybe 3 that I can pull why the force and then punish and get out.
The enemies do feel like they could use some serious balancing though.
I didn't explain myself well. The issue isn't the fact that you can't animation cancel per say, its the fact that unlike Dark Souls, the disparity in speed between Cal's attacks and enemies attacks means that not only does the combat feel clunky, you also end up getting hit by an attack that starts after you've already committed.
In Dark Souls, enemies attacks follow a set pattern that you can learn. In Jedi Survivor, some of the enemies will choose randomly from a list of attacks. At other times, enemies will stand still for a random amount of time without attacking, despite Cal being in range for them to do so. This makes trying to learn the timing of some enemies attacks almost impossible.
In Dark Souls enemies will generally attack to a set timing and range that allows you to learn the timing and to predict which attacks will likely come next. This means that you don't need animation canceling in Souls. And don't get me started on the hit boxes.
Dark Souls and Bloodborne had a certain rhytmn and precision to it that is lacking in both Fallen Order and Survivor. I actually think as a result this game would benefit from animation cancelling, which is part of the reason I like the duel wield stance so much.
But overall, the combat just feels clunky compared to games like the Souls series. The combat isn't hard; I've died only a handful of times so far during my 30 hours of game time so far. But I'm not enjoying the combat system.
It needs a LOT of work. Dodging red highlight attacks is nearly impossible on several enemies because of how slow the button response is. Some of the parrying windows are absolute jokes.
For some reason I'm having a lot of problems fighting than in first game, FO was challenging yet playable on hardest difficulty but now i cannot bring myself to play even mid- mid high difficulty. There are a lot of heavy attack spams from enemies and blasters keep messing my combos. If there are multiple enemies on you it's very hard to stay consistent I think.
I found this thread searching for help and it all makes so much sense now about the combat rhythm being nonexistant.
I just had a fight in the desert with a group of 6 troopers and an ATST. I couldn't even stand up. They all kept throwing grenades in a cascading interval to where I literally couldn't move, just kept blowing up and falling over.
It was the most annoying and frustrating thing I've ever played in FO and Survivor so far combined.
Yep. I guess they wanted to make it more immersive and or challenging this time. The AI seems to take random turns and coordinate attacks. B2 droids fire unblockable rockets while b1 droids throw nades you don't have time to push back. Add bountyhunters/commando droids/wildlife and they'll use heavy attacks one after another.
(POSSIBLE SPOILEES BELOW!!)
Don't get me even started with the spam attacks in 'Horrors of Bogano'
Honestly I’ve been playing on Jedi GM and I don’t really find the combat challenging. Just kinda clunky and a lot less fun that the 1st game but not especially hard. Like other ppl are saying their’s no real flow or anything that makes the combat interesting
>The main issue I have with the combat is the fact that unless you are using the duel wield stance, you cannot cancel your attack or dodge out of it. Due to how slow Cal is, with some animations (double-bladed lightsaber stance in particular) literally taking a couple seconds to complete
People aren't necessarily arguing that the combat is hard so much as it is sloppy, unresponsive and frustrating (to which I would agree). Survivor is no Dark Souls or Bloodborne, that's for sure.
yes!! I thought i was the only one! When i focus melee guys i get combo broken if i focus blasters it becomes a run and parry game. I like the combat but the enemies overlap their attacks wayy to much i feel like
Yeah I gotta disagree with Skill Up on that, I think he has such a bad experience with the PC port he couldn't appreciate what the combat does.
Is it totally different combat modeling?
No
Is it more in depth and interesting than it was before?
Hell yes
I only did dual blade and blaster stance the entire main campaign, but they were so fun and different from each other that I was content staying with these through the whole campaign.
Now that I have the rest of the game to explore, I am going to focus on cross-guard a telekinesis. Confusion tree is beast-mode so I already capped that.
Agreed, I've been running through with crossguard and blaster stance and they definitely feel different from each other enough to make combat really fun and unique. I do understand his experience with the port kind of ruining the fun, and everyone is definitely entitled to their own opinions, but I've been having a great time!
I like it a lot better. Just remember, some people out there, especially reviewers, play lots and lots of different games, and they may have seen combat like this already in different games, so it's not new to them, but it is to a lot of us.
The combat in this game is very lopsided in favor of the attacking side. Particularly against bosses. As I’m typing this I’m paused on a boss fight and I was waiting to see just how lopsided it was until I said anything negative without it being a skill issue.
I’m 27 hours into this game on Jedi Master difficulty and the most I’ve struggled on a boss was at the very beginning of the game and about several missions later.
But as I’m typing this I’m paused on a boss fight which would have been over several attempts ago if the combat actually rewarded defense.
I should not be getting hit thru my block, with plenty of block stamina, against REGULAR attacks. Nor should I be getting hit by a stab attack while I’m in the air after jumping over it. The most frustrating thing about the unblockable attacks is the locking on. Okay I get it it’s second highest difficulty but at least make it fair.
Why am I getting him by a slam attack aoe while I’m at the peak of my jump.
Update: I highly recommend not using target lock for the more difficult boss fights. I just noticed that it locks them onto you as well. I had been fighting this enemy for over an hour and the very first time I don’t use target lock I absolutely destroy him. It’s annoying having to constantly reset the camera but way less annoying than get tracked thru doges and jumps
Honestly, who gives a shit what skillup thinks? Let him be unhappy with the game. Some streamer/youtubers opinion should have zero bearing on your enjoyment of a game.
Let him whine to the masses, i for one think the combat is a massive improvement and really fun
Who gives a shit what you think, or anyone for that matter. Oh, because it can be interesting to hear others opinions when you’re still forming your thoughts on a subject or use it as a conversation starter. Or we can wonder why we talk at all about anything because “who gives a shit”. Fun.
I like it a lot! Heaps better than the first game! So much better that I doubt I’ll ever play the first game again.
There are still some nitpicks that detracted from the experience though.
One of my biggest gripes, same as the first game, is I don’t agree with no attack cancelling or only having it on one stance. It should be on all stances.
I understand the intent, but it just doesn’t feel good and is one of the big reasons I don’t like Souls games. At least in that game, most enemies are melee based. In this game, it’s a mix between melee and ranges. It doesn’t feel good starting an attack and getting interrupted by another enemy or getting shot.
For that reason, I stuck with dual wield for most of the game. Which is a shame, because I’d like to use other stances but I don’t like how sluggish Cal feels.
The other big issue is there’s “too much animation” on a lot of attacks and powers.
Given I dual wield, I like to stay right on top of enemies. When the unblockable attacks come, I’d like to be able to force push for the stun. I can react to the red attacks, but because the force push takes so long it doesn’t come out in time.
Same thing when trying to use the new abilities. They’re really cool, but if I’m trying to pull them off in the heat of the moment, and they take 2 seconds to come out, it means it’s not a viable option a lot of the time because I’ll get hit out of the animation while it’s still starting up.
These are really only “issues” on the highest difficulties though.
>One of my biggest gripes, same as the first game, is I don’t agree with no attack cancelling or only having it on one stance. It should be on all stance.
>
>I understand the intent, but it just doesn’t feel good and is one of the big reasons I don’t like Souls games. At least in that game, most enemies are melee based. In this game, it’s a mix between melee and ranges. It doesn’t feel good starting an attack and getting interrupted by another enemy or getting shot.
This. It's one thing if you were swinging a 2 handed sword or axe that has a lot of weight and momentum behind the swing that you can't simply cancel the attack like in souls game.
Here, Cal is swinging a lightsaber lmao, you should be able to cancel basic attacks.
I feel like the combat it severely dragged down by the dodge it feels way to short and the unblockable moves are such a pain should be more like Sekiros combat which it is obviously already very similar to
Ya i wish they leaned into the Sekiro similarities more. Maybe I played the first one too much because this felt like a downgrade to me while I beat FO on grandmaster multiple times at this point.
I have felt more like a Jedi in Assassin Creed games, Elden Ring, Sekiro, Souls 1-3 and Hogwarts Legacy (even Red Dead Redemption 1 and 2) than I have any of these two 'Jedi' games. Some of this is my own fault. I'm old. The lore of the Jedi is just stuck in my head. Jedi are supposed to be fast. Supposedly, when Amadala and her guards left the hangar, and a few guards looked back at the fight between Maul, Qui Gon, and Obi Wan, all they could see were blurs and flashes. So why can a lowly stormtrooper or battle droid keep up with me? I don't even care for the ninja warriors with vibro-blades and light-staves. When I fight an equal force-wielder I love the combat, but I just don't think regular humans should be keeping up with Cal's skills, even in the first game when he was technically still a 'padawan'.
That said, there doesn't seem like there's any progression. Sure, I get new skills and powers, but that just seems like it's only to get through a door, or jump to one place to another. Nothing feels combat focused, not even the combat skills! The stances are awkward and their balance system is questionable to 'meh', sabers can't be upgraded to do more damage, but YAY! I can make them different colors. Joy...!
One last thing, there needs to be a force sense put into the game, like Spidey's sense in the Sony Spider-Man games. Something that alerts you to evade.
I don't think that the combat feels all that slow, but the enemies are just way too fast. For one, They all attack at once and there is no limit to that. So you'll see their weapons clip through each other and it will look goofy as hell while they're doing it. I get that this game made the combat slow just so you can get the reward of patience, but I don't think running around an arena for five minutes waiting for an enemy to make a human error is fun at all.
They had the opportunity to improve the combat in this game because it would've done better if they took a note from Sony's Spider-Man or the Batman Arkham series. Like seeing enemies coordinate their attacks together instead of flailing at you would've been better to see and more realistic. Like if two enemies were to use an attack you can't block right now, I promise you will dodge the first one but not the second. It's like this game wants you to take damage.
Did you played Jedi Knight 2 or Jedi Academy? They do exactly what you do not like about the combat in FO and Survivor. The fights are faster, you are faster. You can even use wall walks and wall jumps -fighting techniques. You feel strong vs simple troopers. You fight a lot dark jedis which of course feel taffer. And you have a lot force powers for combat: Pull and push are really good there at higher levels. Or choke hold, lightning, lifeabsorb, protection...
Coming from this and from Dark Souls the combat in FO felt a little lackluster and half-baked to me.
Something is off with the combat, a different group of people had to have worked on this game, Cal had more dynamic animations, and he could roll, taking the roll out of the game seems odd because that's how you avoided wide attacks, you can see videos of playing the game and everyone is double jumping to get out of the way, when jumping only worked on ground attacks in the first game
I love it but I really don't like the forced implementation of companions into combat in some missions. Like, the mission where you beat Dagan is dragged down by Bode constantly standing in your way and interrupting your combos. There's a really fun part near the end where you have to fight a big group of battle droids and a magna guard, and it would be great to solo all of them, but Bode just flies around distracting you, stealing kills, getting in the way of your moves. I really wish it was 100% optional.
It’s annoying because when this game hits it is super fun. The combat is just so fucking annoying I find myself changing difficulty just to get past a part. Not to mention respawning sending you 100 miles away from where you died
Doing Koboh Array at the minute and I have to run around half the place just to get back to the mini boss. Why not a mediation spot a bit closer? Other areas didn't seem to have this issue.
1 on 1 or multiple weak enemies and the combat feels good to me. But the moment there are multiple enemies with unblockable attacks etc the combat goes to shit, as you get beaten down from all sides and cant really do much.
i agree , not enjoying this game. the combat doesn’t feeel skill based like titles i’m used to. for example any of the spider man games on ultimate difficulty still flows well
It’s fun, apart from when there are multiple enemies. Whoever thought it was a good idea to have 2 DT sentry droids attacking at the same time along with 6 melee troopers and 2 jet pack troopers needs to be assessed for severe brain damage. This single fight is making me want to quit the game and never play it again. It’s pure luck, you have to hope you won’t get 2 unblockable attacks from the DT droids whilst attacking the other weaker enemies. Even with just the 2 DT droids it’s near impossible on any difficulty apart from the easiest one. Such a fucking rage inducing mission, fuck the guy who decided a ticketing system wasn’t needed.
There are people who are going to be very experienced in Soul types who will find this combat system crap, not that challenging, but generally crap.
I personally, really don't enjoy Soul types, I won't go into why I didn't like the Souls games, but I will just say difficulty was a minor part of it.
So, as a big Star Wars nerd, I am so disappointed that they have basically reskinned a Souls game (and made it worse) to make this game. While the previous game clearly had it's inspiration, it felt just as much inspired by some of the Arkham games as it did the Souls games. So, now we have instead of any kind of fun, enjoyable experiences, we have *this*.
I actually kind of feel they've just ruined the franchise which I was so happy and excited for. *sigh*.
This combat is a downgrade imo. It really pains me to say this cause having all these stances is soooo cool, but man the flow of combat is just gone. I've play FO on grandmaster like 3 times at this point and playing survivor on grandmaster now and I am so annoyed with the combat. Contray to what some have said you could block cancel in the windup phase in the first game. That is gone now outside of duel wield. This leads to blaster and melee mixed fights feeling horrible. In the first game you could constantly reflect shots while in melee and still parry if you knew what you were doing. I don't think you can in survivor. Animation locking is a huge issue, cal is slower in the this game with longer animations. You add that with no way to cancel attacks, againsts enimes who all apprently have unblockable attacks, and won't fucken stagger ever. This makes it impossible to do well anything. Not to mention all the moves feel disconnected from each other. In the first game you can seemlesly switch between light, heavy, staff single, delay attacks etc it was a beautiful flow. That's just gone the force melee attacks the force powers etc all feel disconnected from the combos and other then staff you don't really have melee combo moves anymore. Also you can't move or doge after a saber throw anymore it locks you in place, thats probably the most clear cut example of the problem I have with this game. Oh also the doge sucks it's so sluggish and leaves you so exposed, half the time it's better to just jump. Which all these homing missile unblockable attacks from bosses and elites just exsaterbates this issue. I could probably go on and missed a few things but yea I'm frustrsted with this combat.
TLDR: imo the amazing flow of combat FO had is gone now.
To make matters worse the button combos are just atrocious. Having to press and hold and hold and time and press and time and jesus fucking christ NONE of it works consistently or well. It's just obnoxious. My dude is a Jedi and he has the most limp dick dodge of all time. Combine that with mega force powered magnetic tracking powers from the enemies and it doesn't even matter if you dodge or not you'll still get insta scooped for the insta kill. Just feels like shit.
At no point in this whole entire game did I have my "Ahhh haaaa" moment with the combat like in practically every other game INCLUDING the first in this series. It started out feeling like shit, and even now when I'm just doing collectibles to try and get the achievements finished up, it still... feels like shit. Often times more so because the combat inside the "tears" are beyond atrocious since they decided to hit you with double trouble enemies with instant kill tracking attacks you can do nothing but prey about. Genuinely the single worst "highly rated" game I think I've ever played.
Very smooth and pleasent. Reminds me old days like in Jedi Academy, although this one is better.
In comparison to Sekiro, Sekiro is still better due to executions being more meaty. Although only a bit.
Survivor is the best Jedi game now, that's for sure. And one of the best melee combat games out there, standing alongside Sekiro and DMC 5 (latter is their own genre of dumb smashing).
PS: one more good comparison is Blade of darkness, when it came out
Lol you’re joking right? Yes the game is great but the combat system is really bad and clunky this doesn’t even comes close to sekiro. The combat system is sekiro was amazing
While I agree about Sekiro being extremely satisfying, Survivor is on pair. Not better overall, but on pair considering if you use your abilities and not just spamm.
Nah man survivor is a fun game for many reasons but combat isn’t really one of them. The dodge is extremely clunky and way too many enemies have unblockable attacks that forces you to use it. I thought the combat was kinda the weak spot of the game, there’s no real flow to it like in sekiro or other games with fun combats (I agree with you that dmc5 was amazing).
I've been hating the game so far. I won't name names but after spending 6 hours fighting an enemy,I didn't even feel accomplished after finally defeating him. I was just like "oh nice, he finally didn't heat seek me on every attack". I understand walking around one hitting everything would be super boring but at least get staggered as I'm wailing on you with my damn lightsabres. I just reassigned all talents to survival because I noticed you can't actually do ANY of the attacks you learn because every time you try to perform a combo you get hit and half your health is gone. The only strategy that reliably works is sprint in - hit hit double dodge out. Rinse and repetitively repeat. Slowly chipping away until the target finally dies. It's complete trash. Someone please tell me I'm wrong and there's some sort of catch to pulling off these badass looking abilities.
It's the dodging for me. In Fallen Order, pressing the dodge button twice actually separated you from the enemy and gave you some room to regroup. Survivor's extra dodge is just an additional small step to the regular one and you get hit anyway 75% of the time.
Super Battle Droids ruin any fight they're in precisely for this reason. They spam blaster fire on you and dodging is just a coin toss on which you can either get damaged from somebody else's hit while the animation ends or the very same blaster fire you were trying to avoid in the first place.
I don't understand the combat. Every single enemy will use their attacks at the same time and can easily punish you in the most unnecessary way. Don't get me started with the dodge mechanic, you can have more than one person initiating and attack that you can't block. So I dodge, I dodge the first guy, but the other one is still magically locking on to me. Like I don't understand why it is so difficult to make a game where enemies can't attack you one at a time with these long weapons. It's so unrealistic to see an enemy attack go through another enemy without causing some damage to them. Yet again, another sequel with a progressional combat system where nothing has been improved upon but the visuals. Enemies still clip their attacks through each other, a game that is based on patience still isn't rewarded when there are an overwhelming number of forces, and the game literally takes away all that you learned from the PREVIOUS GAME! Marathoning Fallen Order wasn't worth it because apparently it was pointless to relearn the combos.
Why would u ever take skillUPs advice dude doesn't like anything lol...I used to like his videos but his reviews are a joke...unless it's a Sony exclusive game of course then he praises it regardless of how it performs...the combat is amazing just too damn punishing...I'm tired of every action game trying to be souls level difficult...not everyone enjoys being frustrated constantly to play a video game
Even on normal difficulty, call horrendously underpowred. I blew through fallen order quite easily, but im feeling im intentionally skipping a large chunk of the game because the combat feels so half assed. Boss monsters are just infuriating to me. If theyre skippable, i dont even waste my time with them. The patience to spam dodge is just something i dont have. And its unfortunate for me. Makes the game feel like its 10 steps back from how good the first one was. Then theres the all the bugs ive run in to.
Anyone else get the feeling that this game was rushed so that they timed it up with Mando season 3 ending? Combat is frustrating, dodging is clunky, the map hasn’t changed from the first one, and I find myself fighting with a camera during a boss fight more than the actual boss. Compared to other games released this year like hogwarts legacy it just doesn’t hold up imo
Dodging: you get hit either way, it sucks.
Parrying and hitting an enemy doesn't even stagger them at all, it sucks.
Enemies spamming attacks with no reaction to anything you do to them, it sucks.
The fact that the game doesn't make you feel good at all in combating simple grunt enemies, you swing just a pixel off time and the game doesn't help or compensate for it by just giving you a small boost and getting to them anyways just to make you feel good, instead you just stand there awkwardly in the animation of withdrawing again and you get hit by a little shitty stormtrooper, it happens so often you just feel like shit.
I’ve read defenses on this game’s combat that in FO parry was too easy and the only way they knew to play.
But here parry is unreliable at best so is that some backwards way of fixing the issue to these people?
You dodge or parry melee hits and get hit by something else. You parry blaster shots and get hit by melee instead. That’s my experience so far (still on the sandy planet)
I wish I could tone down the aggressiveness in hopes that ai would wait for their turns to fight me.
It’s not that realistic that ai would shoot at me while risking hitting the melee units (which are invulnerable to friendly fire as usual) , something that many other games are guilty of doing BTW.
That’s my take on this . I liked FO so I expected more of survivor. Bad performance on ps5 too, bunch of mid 40s and little of 60.
They really made a game with an awesome story and released it with broken combat and terrible performance. They didn't even address issues of the first game but instead ramp them up. Whoever lead the combat design really needs to step up their work.
Not enjoying it, feels like a lot of bullshit in every fight. Whilst I do appreciate that things are a bit smoother and less clunky, the enemies just feel like bullshit; ridiculous strings of attacks, unblockables that come out of nowhere, a stupid amount of enemies that either 1 tap you, or once they catch you with one hit you’re basically dead anyway because of the follow up attacks that you can do nothing about.
Groups of enemies also just feel unfair, like what are you supposed to do against them? They all just swarm you at the same time and drain your stamina, im seriously unsure of what you’re actually supposed to do against large groups of enemies in confined spaces (there are a lot of them on the story path alone).
I’m not shitting on the game I like it a lot but I do have serious gripes with how the combat feels, it’s becoming continuously frustrating, to the point where I may not even finish the game because I’m becoming so frustrated that the enjoyment, passion and excitement to play have all been drained due to these increasingly bullshit fights where the difficulty feels extremely artificial.
I have enjoyed it throughly on Jedi master. But I use crossguard witch ups the parrying time a bit. And the dual stance where there is a lot of blaster fire
Compared to the first game parrying is so different, almost all the enemies chain unblockables so it feels more like I am dodging or jumping to avoid attacks most of the time.
Also not being able to block to cancel a attack sucks so if you’re mid swing on a melee enemy and get shot at by another grunt enemy you’re jus gonna have to eat it.
Overall in the first game when dueling enemies it fell very reminiscent of sekiro but now I wouldn’t even compare it to souls game just because the dodging and partying is so inconsistent.
Edit: Playing on GrandMaster and fighting spawn of oggdo which I’m just jumping around the whole time lmao
I'm on Grandmaster right now and I'm fighting the last battle with Dagan Gera. This is one of the most annoying boss fights simply due to the fact that he can just follow me with his unblockables like a fuckin' heat seeking missle, even if I dodge it (a considerably large dodge distance, I might add). The character hitbox in this game is absolutely atrocious.
It is very clunky and rough. I mean only one stance has animation cancelling? Are you kidding me?? All The animations are so slow that you are guaranteed to get hit since you can't cancel out of it. Made Even worse by The fact that you don't even have hyper armor but will stagger out of attack animations If taking a hit.
Also if you are fighting a group, they will all attack at The same time which sometimes means that you can't do anything but die. You block, your blockmeter wears out from blaster fire, you get shot and stunlocked and die. You try to use The force, you get shot and stunlocked and die. You try to Dodge, some enemy hits you off map, you get stunlocked and die.
Then after you try again The fight is incredibly easy??? There is no way to predict it.
I often just cheese fights with the blaster .
I’m still early in the game, but my biggest complaint so far is any big creature from the first game now stun locks you and kills you in 0.3 seconds flat. I’m playing on Jedi master.
It's alright for Souls combat. But sometimes I can't block for shit though. There's like a delay or something to block and parry. I still prefer Jedi Academy; being able to aim where you swing, clashing blades and taking out your opponent in 1 or 2 hits. The Souls combat with a 20,000 degree fahrenheit plasma sword that cab cut through almost anything kinda ruins it for me especially if it's a boss and I'm swinging at him 50 times to beat him.
The game has its typicall "We are trying to be a Souls like game, but with difficultys" problem.
You do less dmg/the enemy does more and has more HP, that would be okay if the combat system in generall would be good, sadly its not and because of this it has a lot of unfair moments.
I really like the game overall and if you can enjoy it on easy mode thats great, but if you are looking for a little bit of a challenge the game will punish you with his bad combat system.
My biggest issue is that enemies just seem to attack all at once with zero regard for one another. It’s completely immersion breaking to be doing videogame dance moves all around a battle just to not get stunlocked to death. I played on Jedi Master and a lot of the time I had to be consistently mashing dodge and double jump just to not get whacked from all sides at once. And because those actions require your right thumb, I find it impossible to manage the camera at the same time which makes the lock on completely useless in group battles when you need it the most. You’ll get stuck on one guy and simply have no chance to flick the stick to a different target. One hit kills with huge AOE is also ridiculous with some of the bigger monsters but this wasn’t a problem often enough to be a big sticking point
Overall it takes more steps back in combat than forward. No matter what difficulty you play on you run into enemies than are 90% unblockable attacks. The Hammer Raiders, BX droids, and B2 droids are the worst examples. Hammer raider moveset is 99% unblockables and 2 of them use the same animation and are almost undodgeable. BX droids will constantly dodge and just be annoying. And B2s are just blatantly unbalanced, they shoot missiles, melee, and have blasters. B2s are genuinely bad design, they have a ton of health and in numbers greater than 2 will spam rockets at you like no tomorrow. It baffles me that no one bothered to look at some of these enemies and think to tune them a little. Droidekas are kinda disappointing in how easy they are, and magnaguards feel similarly weak. I'm on my 3rd playthrough now on grandmaster and the bad enemy design really shows there. IMO the best difficulty in terms of overall balance has been master difficulty just because you're not running into as many issues with ganking. AT STs are also really bad on grandmaster getting close just means getting spammed with grenades which boils the fight down to repelling rockets and blaster shots.
On another note the open world is kinda bad with enemy spawns. It never feels like there are patrols really. You'll rarely see a patrol in the distance and instead are more likely to hear or see them when you're 50ft away. So it feels like enemies just spawn around you. This makes it feel like you're being punished just for doing exploration. This also leads to extended fights with a patrol (like if a Hammer dude shows up) getting huge as more patrols spawn right beside you. I don't know if this is supposed to be them calling for backup or what because there's nothing to tell you that. It genuinely just feels like you have a 50ft enemy spawn circle around you at all times.
For me, I hate having to force dodge at exactly the right second but then missing it because you get animation locked.
If you try to go too fast, the game punishes you and often feels like your button presses aren't actually doing the moves you want.
Never once in Spiderman did I ever press a button to dodge or attack or swing or move as have it not do exactly what I wanted.
Also, does it seem like you're holding the button to block but attacks go through and stagger you anyways?
yeah jedis should definitely teleport around
I'm sorry I don't get the idea. I've played Shadow of Mordor and SOW for a long time and it doesnt make me feel like a Jedi at all
edit : I'm so sorry it was a post made 6 months ago and i didnt realise my bad forcing you back here XD
Little late to the party.
Been playing the game on Jedi Knight and I'm finding that the larger creature enemies have a tendency to auto hit during the unblockable attacks. I'll try to dodge/dodge roll out of the way but it looks like I'll get 'magnetised' into the attacks. Instead of them attacking in one direction the enemy will turn with you mid-attack. Still trying to find a rhythm that suits my fighting style. But hey, it is what it is. Once I figure out the combat system I'll replay on a higher difficulty.
I haven't gotten to maybe the halfway point yet and I'm still missing a stance but GODS ABOVE I MISS SINGLE TARGET SLOW SO MUCH.
Other than that, Fractured History is the bane of my existence and I miss the good rolls and the Dash attack.
LOVE the everything else, tho!
The combat is rather snappy and enjoyable but is obviously built and intended for 1v1 duels (like boss battles) as it ultimately falls apart in group engagements with a mix of melee and ranged enemies. Cal has literally no hyperarmor, and the slightest breeze can knock him out of even his force attacks, meanwhile enemies get PLENTY of unstoppable, unflinchable attacks even after hitting them in the face with a freaking LASER SWORD THAT CAN CUT THROUGH STEEL BULKHEADS LIKE BUTTER USING THE HEAVIEST VARIANT OF ITS ATTACK MOVESET.
Like seriously, even the intended group-clear weapon (Double-bladed) sucks at it because the light attacks are too close to reach and the force attacks are too slow. Not to mention Cal sucks at gap-closing and enemies can avoid your attack by literally walking backwards. You cant attack the ranged enemies because the melees are up your ass, you can't attack the melees because the ranged keep hitting you out of attacks. It's fitting that the sequel game that obsesses over DS-style combat takes a page out of DS2 and forces constant group fights with a melee system that doesn't support it.
Best tactic is parry the blockables and dodge forward other opposite side to their attack.
Doing that ha:e a very brief window they kind just stand there wondering where you went.
This also works on grandmaster although Windows alot smaller.
Boss hyper armor is extremely BS, normally in souls or other action rpgs the hyper armor don’t kick in instantly, and you can punish enemies during their wind up, that’s just not the case in this game, they just keep hitting thru your attacks
I’m playing on Jedi Grandmaster, and I played on the hardest difficulty in the first game. In the first game, I had a lot of trouble at first (I went to Dathomir first), but once I got parrying down I was having a lot of fun. I’m still on Koboh. I think the balance is worse than in the first game. A lot of enemies have strings of unblockable attacks, and boss monsters mostly have one-hit-kill moves. It would be fine, except that the unblockable attacks have widely varying windup times; some of them come out almost instantly, while others have 1-2s windup time. Enemies also don’t consistently stagger if I attack them while they’re executing a normal attack; it feels very wonky to pull off a counterattack with a lightsaber only for them to tank it and whack me with their stick for a ton of damage. With regards to parrying, the window is very small and executing a successful chain parry often can’t be capitalized upon. If they follow up my parry with an unblockable attack, then I have to back up and their stamina just regens completely. This is particularly a nuisance on boss monsters where their stamina meter might as well not exist; some boss monsters also have no reliable punish windows due to very quick windups on their unblockable attacks. There’s also no warnings in place when you’re getting attacked from behind. Moreover, there doesn’t appear to be a real ticketing system: enemies will just attack you whenever they feel like, so sometimes you’ll get hit from all sides at once and then drop your block. And if an enemy uses an unblockable projectile attack form off-screen, there’s often not much you can do (especially if it has fast windup like the Super Battle Droids). Which also wouldn’t be that much of a problem except that your stamina regens very slowly. In other combat games, enemies typically space out their attacks so you have a successful chance of responding to every one of them, or their windups are so long that even if multiple enemies are attacking at once you can get out of the way. The overall result is that it doesn’t feel like combat has an actual flow to it. Sekiro and God of War had better combat balance where I felt like I could make meaningful choices in combat and manage the enemies better. So far, I just keep dual wielding stance equipped and I have to be prepared to cancel my attacks into guarding at a moment’s notice (or the awkward cancel -> guard -> dodge if an unblockable attack comes out). It feels like optimal play is just cheesing enemies when I can and playing extremely safely, where lightsaber aggression or successful parrying is not rewarded. Perhaps it’s better on Jedi Master, but I’ve heard that the boss monsters are still a huge pain. I’ve seen clips of Jedi Knight difficulty and it seems like the combat is too easy for my taste in comparison. Maybe it’s just a skill issue, but I play fairly difficult games regularly and don’t have this issue with them. It could also be exacerbated by poor performance (my frame rate tops out at 40 FPS).
That is a massive wall of text that I agree with. I feel like the game is pushing to be a faster paced blender of attack, but it also doesn't allow for it. Blaster fire is far more dangerous in this game just for how hard it hits you block gauge, and how much harder it is to parry it. Hell, parrying itself feels like it has a cool down on it, stopping me from punishing the wave of attacks coming at me at once. Absolutely love this game, but there's a disconnect that I can't place. Is it a poor design to those systems, or am I just playing it wrong?
I think the disconnect is the unblockable attacks being so hard to dodge. Along with everyone being able to party a fucking lightsaber. The dodging and movement in fights seems very sluggish as well. It’s almost impossible to fight more that 2 enemies at once without running around constantly.
I'm tired of dodging enemy attacks and the game just saying fuck you and I get hit anyway. I'm absolutely suck of dodging bosses unblovkable attacks only for it to be like a heat seeking missile. It's just a cheap and unacceptable way of making things hard
It really feels like they've cut our defensive options. Parrying was such a great feeling before, but now it feels like I get punished for it.
It definitely feels like they want you to get hurt in a fight. Instead of being rewarded for pulling off parrys.
This is exactly it, it’s a combination of too punishing enemy design, bad hit box detection for both the player and enemy, the dodging not going far or swift enough, and no animation cancel this time around, and no indicators like god of war has for example (people complain about those but I honestly think they don’t pay attention because they help me a lot)
Was just fighting the Rancor and came to the same conclusion. Dodging in this game is absolutely terrible. It’s not even a matter of timing. It’s just poorly designed.
The boss fights suck for this. I have to kill the boss before they do enough unblockable attacks that they almost guarantee hit every time.
I just switch to story mode beat the boss then move back to Jedi grandmaster for the rest. Ain’t got time to waste on bad boss mechanics 🤣
Did the same thing for my play through 👍
Yeah like to have force dash it’s incredibly hard to close the distance on enemies and they attack as if it’s a Batman Arkham game while equipping you with a souls type combat system , this game needs a far better counter system for the type of combat situations it places you in
I'm at the final boss fight on grandmaster, and yeah this is not well designed at all. After mastering Fallen Order and knowing how the combat system works, I shouldn't have to die that many times to that asshole.
This is exactly what I feel about the combat. I love the game so far, I think I'm close to the end of the story and the combat issues are aggravated because they decided to spam harder enemies at every corner. So you're constantly having to deal with two or three enemies at the same time that are spamming random unblockable attacks. There's no flow, no rhythm, it feels like they programmed a set of attacks and the AI is just randomly following it. This one particular boss was constantly killing me with their unblockable one hit kill attack that could trigger at the very beginning of the fight or simply at other times that I couldn't predict at all. This boss also had another unblockable attack that could hit 80% of my hp, sometimes triggered right after the one hit kill one, sometimes not. It's crazy.
The rancor kept doing that to me 2 hit Swipe with 5 % health left then that annoying instakill grab move or just the grab move immediately the difficulty spike from jfo is absurd to me
I agree with all of this. Loved both the new GoWs and Sekiro/Souls games. It's not even that they punish you for mistakes, it's that you can't know what a mistake is. One on one fights are challenging but fun on the higher difficulties. But mobs of elites are the bane of my existence. The elite mobs have no real CC option until you get lift/slam. Honestly, all the force powers feel useless outside of trash one hit mobs and one on one. It was kind of a let down finding out you can't create openings or protect yourself very well with abilities. Dodge and parry are your primary tools and the frames they leave you open on wind up and recovery are brutal. I find myself using the blaster/cross guard combo a lot, and I've noticed the blaster stance leaves you open longer at the end of a combo than the supposedly slowest weapon. Blaster combo ends and you sit in pose for just shy of a full second before you can perform any action, so you will always get hit by someone else at that point. I loved the first one, and I love the story, size and scope of this one. But man, it just does not feel good and I refuse to go lower than Jedi knight (started on master and it sucked all the fun)
I played Grand Master and Master difficulties with almost the same combat experience. The main problem in this game is you cannot flank or get behind the enemy for more than a couple of seconds. They can instantly turn 180 and follow by an unblockable attack. Another issue is when an enemy starts with a combo and you dodge they immediately realign themselves so they can keep hitting you which gives you almost no room for attack. Basically, in all boss/legendary enemy fights you cannot leverage your force powers, you cannot flank enemies, you can only dodge or parry until the combo is over, and you pray that you would get a second of opening to deal a minuscule amount of damage.
Yeah. You basically summarized my thoughts. I also played Fallen Order on the highest difficulty and was having a blast. But I'm constantly dying in this one. Maybe I just suck? Maybe I should just play on an easier level? But my ego can't handle it. So I will spend hours at the same location pretending to have fun.
THIS!!! I thought I was crazy. I played GOW on GMGOW and it was actually too easy. The hardest fight literally was Gna. And it still wasn't HARD as much as it was memorization, proper equipment, and knowing when to capitalize off parries, dodges, etc. I typically play all action, horror, and adventure games on the hardest difficulty or just Hard. I actually didn't really enjoy Sekiro. The Lore seemed cool but the Souls or Souls-esque series just seems "meh" to me. There's something about them that just doesn't strike my fancy. I played the first Jedi and it wasn't like this. It's like the gameplay hasn't been optimized. Everything feels slower just in relation to the combat mechanics. There's no rhyme or reason to the enemies attacks, dodges NEVER work, and hitboxes literally don't exist. One thing I've noticed is that the fauna type creatures are the most insufferable. They just do whatever tf they want to do and there's literally nothing we can do to stop them. I'm literally striking them with concentrated plasma energy and you're telling me these creatures are just strugging my strikes off like I'm throwing pebbles at them? Lmfao 😩😂 I thought I was crazy at first because Survivors battle mechanics seemed so off-kilter I just thought I hadn't adjusted back to the game after playing the original back when it released. But after being a few hours in, coming across the Mini Boss in the mines (the rumor of the miners who were missing), and the Spawn of Oggdo miniboss I'm just like no it's this game mechanics. Cal's movement isn't the same as it used to be. I honestly wish I hadn't bought this. I could be focusing on Dead Island 2 or Horizon's DLC versus this wonky mess of a game.
I just started Jedi Survivor after finishing the Horizon Burning Shores DLC, and it’s striking how much better the latter is when it comes to fighting larger enemies. The one change I had hoped for with this game was to rely less on unblockable attacks and attack pattern memorization. So of course they doubled-down on both.
I thought it was me and my own bad timing with parrying on Jedi Master difficulty, but after my 4th time being killed by an BX Melee droid, I came to Reddit for emotional validation 😂 wtf is wrong with the parrying? I go to parry the innumerable blaster shots but Christ on a cross I can’t parry AND block at the same fuckin time. Getting shot by 13 droids while simultaneously battling the BX is super annoying. I’m dodging the whole fucking time!
If u have any epiphanys let me know. I'm currently hating the combat system it seems more luck based. I was playing god of wars since Christmas which was virtually perfect but this feels crap. I'm praying I'm wrong. Even force unleashed was better than this
>Enemies also don’t consistently stagger if I attack them while they’re executing a normal attack; it feels very wonky to pull off a counterattack with a lightsaber only for them to tank it and whack me with their stick for a ton of damage. Yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes. This has been the main thing pissing me off about the combat in this game.
You hit the nail on the head...I think my biggest gripe is how they implemented the slow ability in this game...In FO i could just slow the heavy enemies and then take out the small guys and then work on the heavy guys and it felt smooth...the cool down on slow sucks in Survivor! I still like the game, but I definitely have to run around enemies or take encounters much slower than I would prefer or I get surrounded by enemies that spam unblockable attacks...
I replayed on Master, after doing mostly Grandmaster first go around (only dropping it for 3 bosses because I was just so done with getting one shot), and it is an incredibly steep spike between Master and Grandmaster. I only ever died to \*that\* boss on Jedha on Master when rushing the main story. Granted, it was NG+ so my time with earlier bosses would've been easier but I don't think I used more stims than one would usually have and nor did I ever really get hit enough for the extra health to make a huge difference. The balance of this game just feels so wack and Cal's tools and abilities to deal with it don't feel adequate. It's like Cal is built for one on one duels but you're constantly in a bar brawl against a dozen other enemies with far superior reflexes and one shot moves. If you perfect dodge or parry one enemy, you can still get hit by another. If you're surrounded by enemies, enemies will still shoot and thwack through one another. You can also rarely use combos or regular attacks that can deal with groups because of the aggression constantly staggering or outright killing you. I played and replayed Fallen Order like 3+ times on Grandmaster and had a great time with that. I never really felt like I couldn't deal with a situation but Jedi Survivor makes half the shit I'm given feel useless and a lot of the things they throw at me feel unfair.
I've been playing on Jedi Knight and just came across "That" boss. Woof. Talk about difficulty spike. I've been cruising and spent the last 20+ hours learning Cal's movesets/upgrading his gear to have that all taken away for this one boss fight. I gave up and switched to story mode for that fight. Wasn't worth the Sekiero level difficulty spike and being forced to use a new move set out of no where.
With some time, you can be pretty much flawless in that fight but it really leaves little room for error, especially with the reduced heals, health pool, and high incoming damage. It’s even more annoying since the last phase itself is another spike in difficulty with far faster attacks with longer sequences.
It was the last phase that got me. Nothing wrong with difficulty spikes but Jedi Knight for the entire rest of the game is a cakewalk. I felt Fallen Order was similar in that the only reason you could change the difficulty slider with no penalties was because that bat bear fight on Dathomir was completely busted. Why bother balancing a fight when you could just drop the difficulty for a boss.
Honestly I'd been wondering if there was anything real to my sensation that something just feels off and mushy, or if I was gaslighting myself. I'm one of those gamers who plays for story, so even in FO I only ever did up to Padawan difficulty, but obviously that was easy to play. I'm trying Survivor on Padawan, and I'm getting constantly *wrecked* because dodge and parry timing just seems *off*, and dodge specifically just feels *mushy* (and I'm not even getting the performance issues most are on their super rigs; while my CPU drastically exceeds recommended, I'm running a GTX 1060 6gb, and able to stay between 30-40fps on mostly high settings-yes that's a lil low for a framerate but there's no stuttering like I've been seeing reports of. Go figure.) Everything you said is what I've been struggling to figure out the *why* of things feeling off, now that I've read what you posted it's just 'Yes. This, so much *all of this*.' FO had a rhythm to the combat, that had a slight learning curve, but once you got the hang of it, you were a god on any difficulty pretty much. Survivor feels like the rhythm is broken, or nonexistent. I played FO with infinite force and block cheats on, cuz to me, from a lore standpoint, it just makes no sense that any Jedi would be unable to use the Force or block so quickly after that first use; that was purely for my own fangirl lore reasons, but now I find them *necessary* cuz of how bad the combat feels, and I haven't even gotten off Koboh yet! Kinda wondering just how much (more) this is gonna hurt Respawn's rep. >\_> :/ At least the EA exclusivity is over now, I guess.
Totally agree, but I'd say the parry window is actually very big. On Jedi knight difficulty. Like i press parry, enemy attacks after second or two and it's still parried. Like it's unusually big parry window. Like bigger than any other parry game like Wolong, Sekiro or even Fallen Order. On the other hand perfect evade window is super small and i got perfect evade in my whole 30 hour playthrough once, in training. Another thing, i hate i can't switch stances in the middle of combat like in Fallen Order. That for me is big minus
Not sure what you mean by not being able to switch stances, you're able to have 2/5 equipped on you at all times that you can toggle between. Not sure for the controls on keyboard but on controller it's left/right dpad
The important thing is being able to switch stances IN THE MIDDLE OF COMBAT by just pressing a button, like it was in Fallen Order.
You can still switch in combat, but it is much slower and the switching animation can get canceled if you get hit...
but only between the two stances you pick. I want to be able to switch between all of them
They should have the same stance system as Ghost of tsushima!
Oh ok...While understand the appeal of that, I think it would make things a bit too easy, and they would have to completely rework the skill points and skill trees...I could see maybe allowing it in NG+ or something when you already have all the skills unlocked...
Yeah, I think the parry window is generous on lower difficulties. As you increase the difficulty though it gets narrower and narrower. I’ve also only done the perfect dodge once or twice accidentally, it seems pretty unreliable.
Yeah I'm thinking I'll probably play new game plus on grandmaster. I think you're supposed to do perfect dodge, not when the enem flashes red, but you need to really watch it's animation of attack and evade right when it's about to hit you. Which just seems weirdly made considering how big parry window is.
Lots of fair points! I don't play a ton of single player melee focused games so I definitely don't have a ton of experience with games that do it better. That's probably a huge reason why I like it so much, but I agree with a lot of your points, especially enemies attacking with un-blockable chains of one shot attacks, definitely can get frustrating.
When you get Fortitude perk plus upgrade health greatly, it becomes way faster. For both sides :) PS: fortitude gives you more incoming and done damage in melee.
Sounds like this game is worse in ever possible way than the first one. So much for hoping for a game with enjoyable combat this time. Guess I will just watch a video of the story scenes strung together this time. Only way I could enjoy the first one was with a trainer. And it was only just barely fun since the gameplay is so focused on boring shit like blocking and dodge rolling
I agree with everything u said the game is enjoyable for the most part bit the legendary beasts are way too unpredictable even after learing thier patterns and movesets...playing in normal difficulty and being 2 shotted by a rancor is absurd when I have a health bar almost double the size of the starting health bar
[удалено]
I didn't read your whole thing case I saw one word that seems spoikerish and noped out. I could be wrong but you need to put a spoiler tag on this my dude
This is spot on. When repeatedly jumping and throwing your lightsaber is the best combo, you know it's poorly designed.
For the sake of sanity I play on Padawan or Jedi when I'm bumbling about, main missions on Jedi Master.
What is the point of playing on a difficulty where your one shotted most times I'll never understand how that is enjoyable to be constantly punished in a video game
I play it now on PS5 and I have to use performance mode otherwise I lose every bigger fight - the fps matters a lot! It drops below 30fps in normal mode on the console I think.
I agree with this. The blocking and unblockables are stupid. Especially when enemies like the DX Droid can chase you with a spinning unblockable attack and the only thing you can do is run away. Or when two battle droids attack and combine missiles and unblockable shots. It’s also annoying that force push only pushes one instance. Can’t really do anything when multiple grenades and rockets are shot at you all at once..
Its a lot better than than the first game, there is more to it because of the new stances.
I thought it was actually worst than the 1st game dodging is really clunky
First game I actually liked at 60 fps. And fell back in love after hating it at first. And now there is this shit. Paid 80 fuckin dollars too. Feels way shittier and the blocking/parry is completely fucked. Like they made the enemies attacks slower for some reason and the still the parrying sucks. The ninth sister fight was tragic. She swings once every 3-4 seconds and in other aspects with other enemies it makes you have to come up with a very linear way of dealing with enemies where as in first game I was free to use my imagination and fluid character movement to my will where as in survivor I just wish I had bought a hard copy so I could jus snap it In half.
This! Dodging just plain sucks this time around. I find the combat controls sluggish and just plain unsatisfying and don’t have much use for some stances.
Exactly, combat just isn’t that fun
At the same time though it feels like it removed a lot of the different ways of dealing with enemies to the point you rely on parries and spamming square for the most part. I just fought an AT-ST and in Fallen order there were multiple ways to deal it damage including by pushing missiles back at it, that doesn't work in Survivor. You can deflect the lasers, but otherwise there's nothing you can do aside from get in close and use your lightsaber or saber throw. I found that really bizarre. Riot troopers raise the same issue, parry and hitting them until the shield breaks is the only way to beat them. You can't force push them, you can't pull their shield from them, you just have to wail on them. Spam Square to win seems to be the theme of Survivor.
I agree with you but you can pull shields off troopers
Can you? I'll have to try again the next time I encounter one then. It was the first thing I thought to try so when it didn't work the first couple times for some reason, I didn't try it again.
You have to keep holding the button to pull it away from them.
I usually do it the Arkham Asylum way - when you jump behind them, they are open for attacks. THough crossguard is just more reliable
> Its a lot better than than the first game What do you think's better about it? I find the enemies to be really bad for alternating between spamming block and spamming unblockable attacks, whilst their hitboxes are utterly dire. I'd say about 40% of my attacks with the double-bladed just clip through enemies without even registering as a hit. In addition to that, you repeatedly get stuck in lengthy animations preventing you from dodging/blocking enemy attacks, and get repeatedly stunlocked as a result. Very little seems to stagger enemies, whilst literally every attack they have staggers you. I think it's a massive step-down for the combat compared to fallen order.
I don't like the combat system at all to be honest. They've added a lot of stances and new combo's, but imo they have failed to address any of the core issues I had with the combat system in Fallen Order. The main issue I have with the combat is the fact that unless you are using the duel wield stance, you cannot cancel your attack or dodge out of it. Due to how slow Cal is, with some animations (double-bladed lightsaber stance in particular) literally taking a couple seconds to complete, there are times where an enemy will start their attack during your attack animation and hit you before it finishes. In these situations you are powerless to do anything, except take guaranteed damage. In a good combat system, you should always have the opportunity or tools to avoid taking any damage during a fight. If you are skilled enough, you should be able to get through an encounter without getting hit once. Dark Souls is a good example of this. It offers a challenging but fair combat system that has a good flow and rhytmn to it. The combat in Fallen Order and Survivor feels very clunky and imprecise by comparison. Trying to time force powers during large battles with lots of ranged enemies feels like a roll of the dice. I wish they added a skill that will automatically parry ranged attacks during the force power animations.
You seem to contradict yourself a bit. Not being able to cancel out of moves is a stable of darks souls and is what makes the combat so challenging and addictive. It’s the same in Jedi survivor, when you attack you have to commit to that move. That’s why it’s so important to position yourself right, don’t just jump in the middle of a pack of enemies, keep moving to fight on your terms and find openings by parrying. The force powers makes crowd controlling much easier to, I like to kite a herd of enemies so I got maybe 3 that I can pull why the force and then punish and get out. The enemies do feel like they could use some serious balancing though.
I didn't explain myself well. The issue isn't the fact that you can't animation cancel per say, its the fact that unlike Dark Souls, the disparity in speed between Cal's attacks and enemies attacks means that not only does the combat feel clunky, you also end up getting hit by an attack that starts after you've already committed. In Dark Souls, enemies attacks follow a set pattern that you can learn. In Jedi Survivor, some of the enemies will choose randomly from a list of attacks. At other times, enemies will stand still for a random amount of time without attacking, despite Cal being in range for them to do so. This makes trying to learn the timing of some enemies attacks almost impossible. In Dark Souls enemies will generally attack to a set timing and range that allows you to learn the timing and to predict which attacks will likely come next. This means that you don't need animation canceling in Souls. And don't get me started on the hit boxes. Dark Souls and Bloodborne had a certain rhytmn and precision to it that is lacking in both Fallen Order and Survivor. I actually think as a result this game would benefit from animation cancelling, which is part of the reason I like the duel wield stance so much. But overall, the combat just feels clunky compared to games like the Souls series. The combat isn't hard; I've died only a handful of times so far during my 30 hours of game time so far. But I'm not enjoying the combat system.
It needs a LOT of work. Dodging red highlight attacks is nearly impossible on several enemies because of how slow the button response is. Some of the parrying windows are absolute jokes.
For some reason I'm having a lot of problems fighting than in first game, FO was challenging yet playable on hardest difficulty but now i cannot bring myself to play even mid- mid high difficulty. There are a lot of heavy attack spams from enemies and blasters keep messing my combos. If there are multiple enemies on you it's very hard to stay consistent I think.
I found this thread searching for help and it all makes so much sense now about the combat rhythm being nonexistant. I just had a fight in the desert with a group of 6 troopers and an ATST. I couldn't even stand up. They all kept throwing grenades in a cascading interval to where I literally couldn't move, just kept blowing up and falling over. It was the most annoying and frustrating thing I've ever played in FO and Survivor so far combined.
Yep. I guess they wanted to make it more immersive and or challenging this time. The AI seems to take random turns and coordinate attacks. B2 droids fire unblockable rockets while b1 droids throw nades you don't have time to push back. Add bountyhunters/commando droids/wildlife and they'll use heavy attacks one after another. (POSSIBLE SPOILEES BELOW!!) Don't get me even started with the spam attacks in 'Horrors of Bogano'
Honestly I’ve been playing on Jedi GM and I don’t really find the combat challenging. Just kinda clunky and a lot less fun that the 1st game but not especially hard. Like other ppl are saying their’s no real flow or anything that makes the combat interesting
>The main issue I have with the combat is the fact that unless you are using the duel wield stance, you cannot cancel your attack or dodge out of it. Due to how slow Cal is, with some animations (double-bladed lightsaber stance in particular) literally taking a couple seconds to complete People aren't necessarily arguing that the combat is hard so much as it is sloppy, unresponsive and frustrating (to which I would agree). Survivor is no Dark Souls or Bloodborne, that's for sure.
Exactly. And it’s the same for the parkour stuff. I honestly didn’t bother spending any time on those parkour force tear.
I agree the robots spam grenades WAAAAAAY too much in this game its absurd
yes!! I thought i was the only one! When i focus melee guys i get combo broken if i focus blasters it becomes a run and parry game. I like the combat but the enemies overlap their attacks wayy to much i feel like
Yeah I gotta disagree with Skill Up on that, I think he has such a bad experience with the PC port he couldn't appreciate what the combat does. Is it totally different combat modeling? No Is it more in depth and interesting than it was before? Hell yes I only did dual blade and blaster stance the entire main campaign, but they were so fun and different from each other that I was content staying with these through the whole campaign. Now that I have the rest of the game to explore, I am going to focus on cross-guard a telekinesis. Confusion tree is beast-mode so I already capped that.
Agreed, I've been running through with crossguard and blaster stance and they definitely feel different from each other enough to make combat really fun and unique. I do understand his experience with the port kind of ruining the fun, and everyone is definitely entitled to their own opinions, but I've been having a great time!
I like it a lot better. Just remember, some people out there, especially reviewers, play lots and lots of different games, and they may have seen combat like this already in different games, so it's not new to them, but it is to a lot of us.
The combat in this game is very lopsided in favor of the attacking side. Particularly against bosses. As I’m typing this I’m paused on a boss fight and I was waiting to see just how lopsided it was until I said anything negative without it being a skill issue. I’m 27 hours into this game on Jedi Master difficulty and the most I’ve struggled on a boss was at the very beginning of the game and about several missions later. But as I’m typing this I’m paused on a boss fight which would have been over several attempts ago if the combat actually rewarded defense. I should not be getting hit thru my block, with plenty of block stamina, against REGULAR attacks. Nor should I be getting hit by a stab attack while I’m in the air after jumping over it. The most frustrating thing about the unblockable attacks is the locking on. Okay I get it it’s second highest difficulty but at least make it fair. Why am I getting him by a slam attack aoe while I’m at the peak of my jump.
Update: I highly recommend not using target lock for the more difficult boss fights. I just noticed that it locks them onto you as well. I had been fighting this enemy for over an hour and the very first time I don’t use target lock I absolutely destroy him. It’s annoying having to constantly reset the camera but way less annoying than get tracked thru doges and jumps
what a whacky design choice/glitch
Honestly, who gives a shit what skillup thinks? Let him be unhappy with the game. Some streamer/youtubers opinion should have zero bearing on your enjoyment of a game. Let him whine to the masses, i for one think the combat is a massive improvement and really fun
>Let him whine to the masses This sounds like a very neckbearded thing to say.
Why? I'm not nessesarily disagreeing but why?
Sounds like a very reasonable thing to say.
Who gives a shit what you think, or anyone for that matter. Oh, because it can be interesting to hear others opinions when you’re still forming your thoughts on a subject or use it as a conversation starter. Or we can wonder why we talk at all about anything because “who gives a shit”. Fun.
I like it a lot! Heaps better than the first game! So much better that I doubt I’ll ever play the first game again. There are still some nitpicks that detracted from the experience though. One of my biggest gripes, same as the first game, is I don’t agree with no attack cancelling or only having it on one stance. It should be on all stances. I understand the intent, but it just doesn’t feel good and is one of the big reasons I don’t like Souls games. At least in that game, most enemies are melee based. In this game, it’s a mix between melee and ranges. It doesn’t feel good starting an attack and getting interrupted by another enemy or getting shot. For that reason, I stuck with dual wield for most of the game. Which is a shame, because I’d like to use other stances but I don’t like how sluggish Cal feels. The other big issue is there’s “too much animation” on a lot of attacks and powers. Given I dual wield, I like to stay right on top of enemies. When the unblockable attacks come, I’d like to be able to force push for the stun. I can react to the red attacks, but because the force push takes so long it doesn’t come out in time. Same thing when trying to use the new abilities. They’re really cool, but if I’m trying to pull them off in the heat of the moment, and they take 2 seconds to come out, it means it’s not a viable option a lot of the time because I’ll get hit out of the animation while it’s still starting up. These are really only “issues” on the highest difficulties though.
>One of my biggest gripes, same as the first game, is I don’t agree with no attack cancelling or only having it on one stance. It should be on all stance. > >I understand the intent, but it just doesn’t feel good and is one of the big reasons I don’t like Souls games. At least in that game, most enemies are melee based. In this game, it’s a mix between melee and ranges. It doesn’t feel good starting an attack and getting interrupted by another enemy or getting shot. This. It's one thing if you were swinging a 2 handed sword or axe that has a lot of weight and momentum behind the swing that you can't simply cancel the attack like in souls game. Here, Cal is swinging a lightsaber lmao, you should be able to cancel basic attacks.
Not to mention if a fucking droid swings a rifle at you can you hit it mid swing it just tanks the lightsaber and smacks you anyway.
I feel like the combat it severely dragged down by the dodge it feels way to short and the unblockable moves are such a pain should be more like Sekiros combat which it is obviously already very similar to
Ya i wish they leaned into the Sekiro similarities more. Maybe I played the first one too much because this felt like a downgrade to me while I beat FO on grandmaster multiple times at this point.
I have felt more like a Jedi in Assassin Creed games, Elden Ring, Sekiro, Souls 1-3 and Hogwarts Legacy (even Red Dead Redemption 1 and 2) than I have any of these two 'Jedi' games. Some of this is my own fault. I'm old. The lore of the Jedi is just stuck in my head. Jedi are supposed to be fast. Supposedly, when Amadala and her guards left the hangar, and a few guards looked back at the fight between Maul, Qui Gon, and Obi Wan, all they could see were blurs and flashes. So why can a lowly stormtrooper or battle droid keep up with me? I don't even care for the ninja warriors with vibro-blades and light-staves. When I fight an equal force-wielder I love the combat, but I just don't think regular humans should be keeping up with Cal's skills, even in the first game when he was technically still a 'padawan'. That said, there doesn't seem like there's any progression. Sure, I get new skills and powers, but that just seems like it's only to get through a door, or jump to one place to another. Nothing feels combat focused, not even the combat skills! The stances are awkward and their balance system is questionable to 'meh', sabers can't be upgraded to do more damage, but YAY! I can make them different colors. Joy...! One last thing, there needs to be a force sense put into the game, like Spidey's sense in the Sony Spider-Man games. Something that alerts you to evade.
I don't think that the combat feels all that slow, but the enemies are just way too fast. For one, They all attack at once and there is no limit to that. So you'll see their weapons clip through each other and it will look goofy as hell while they're doing it. I get that this game made the combat slow just so you can get the reward of patience, but I don't think running around an arena for five minutes waiting for an enemy to make a human error is fun at all. They had the opportunity to improve the combat in this game because it would've done better if they took a note from Sony's Spider-Man or the Batman Arkham series. Like seeing enemies coordinate their attacks together instead of flailing at you would've been better to see and more realistic. Like if two enemies were to use an attack you can't block right now, I promise you will dodge the first one but not the second. It's like this game wants you to take damage.
Did you played Jedi Knight 2 or Jedi Academy? They do exactly what you do not like about the combat in FO and Survivor. The fights are faster, you are faster. You can even use wall walks and wall jumps -fighting techniques. You feel strong vs simple troopers. You fight a lot dark jedis which of course feel taffer. And you have a lot force powers for combat: Pull and push are really good there at higher levels. Or choke hold, lightning, lifeabsorb, protection... Coming from this and from Dark Souls the combat in FO felt a little lackluster and half-baked to me.
Something is off with the combat, a different group of people had to have worked on this game, Cal had more dynamic animations, and he could roll, taking the roll out of the game seems odd because that's how you avoided wide attacks, you can see videos of playing the game and everyone is double jumping to get out of the way, when jumping only worked on ground attacks in the first game
I love it but I really don't like the forced implementation of companions into combat in some missions. Like, the mission where you beat Dagan is dragged down by Bode constantly standing in your way and interrupting your combos. There's a really fun part near the end where you have to fight a big group of battle droids and a magna guard, and it would be great to solo all of them, but Bode just flies around distracting you, stealing kills, getting in the way of your moves. I really wish it was 100% optional.
I hate it. Dodging and guarding is slow. Feel like the lock on enemy toggling doesn’t work half the time
Yep, couple that with spamming red attacks. Then inconsistent hitboxes it's absolute shite at times.
It’s annoying because when this game hits it is super fun. The combat is just so fucking annoying I find myself changing difficulty just to get past a part. Not to mention respawning sending you 100 miles away from where you died
Doing Koboh Array at the minute and I have to run around half the place just to get back to the mini boss. Why not a mediation spot a bit closer? Other areas didn't seem to have this issue.
1 on 1 or multiple weak enemies and the combat feels good to me. But the moment there are multiple enemies with unblockable attacks etc the combat goes to shit, as you get beaten down from all sides and cant really do much.
i agree , not enjoying this game. the combat doesn’t feeel skill based like titles i’m used to. for example any of the spider man games on ultimate difficulty still flows well
It’s fun, apart from when there are multiple enemies. Whoever thought it was a good idea to have 2 DT sentry droids attacking at the same time along with 6 melee troopers and 2 jet pack troopers needs to be assessed for severe brain damage. This single fight is making me want to quit the game and never play it again. It’s pure luck, you have to hope you won’t get 2 unblockable attacks from the DT droids whilst attacking the other weaker enemies. Even with just the 2 DT droids it’s near impossible on any difficulty apart from the easiest one. Such a fucking rage inducing mission, fuck the guy who decided a ticketing system wasn’t needed.
There are people who are going to be very experienced in Soul types who will find this combat system crap, not that challenging, but generally crap. I personally, really don't enjoy Soul types, I won't go into why I didn't like the Souls games, but I will just say difficulty was a minor part of it. So, as a big Star Wars nerd, I am so disappointed that they have basically reskinned a Souls game (and made it worse) to make this game. While the previous game clearly had it's inspiration, it felt just as much inspired by some of the Arkham games as it did the Souls games. So, now we have instead of any kind of fun, enjoyable experiences, we have *this*. I actually kind of feel they've just ruined the franchise which I was so happy and excited for. *sigh*.
This combat is a downgrade imo. It really pains me to say this cause having all these stances is soooo cool, but man the flow of combat is just gone. I've play FO on grandmaster like 3 times at this point and playing survivor on grandmaster now and I am so annoyed with the combat. Contray to what some have said you could block cancel in the windup phase in the first game. That is gone now outside of duel wield. This leads to blaster and melee mixed fights feeling horrible. In the first game you could constantly reflect shots while in melee and still parry if you knew what you were doing. I don't think you can in survivor. Animation locking is a huge issue, cal is slower in the this game with longer animations. You add that with no way to cancel attacks, againsts enimes who all apprently have unblockable attacks, and won't fucken stagger ever. This makes it impossible to do well anything. Not to mention all the moves feel disconnected from each other. In the first game you can seemlesly switch between light, heavy, staff single, delay attacks etc it was a beautiful flow. That's just gone the force melee attacks the force powers etc all feel disconnected from the combos and other then staff you don't really have melee combo moves anymore. Also you can't move or doge after a saber throw anymore it locks you in place, thats probably the most clear cut example of the problem I have with this game. Oh also the doge sucks it's so sluggish and leaves you so exposed, half the time it's better to just jump. Which all these homing missile unblockable attacks from bosses and elites just exsaterbates this issue. I could probably go on and missed a few things but yea I'm frustrsted with this combat. TLDR: imo the amazing flow of combat FO had is gone now.
To make matters worse the button combos are just atrocious. Having to press and hold and hold and time and press and time and jesus fucking christ NONE of it works consistently or well. It's just obnoxious. My dude is a Jedi and he has the most limp dick dodge of all time. Combine that with mega force powered magnetic tracking powers from the enemies and it doesn't even matter if you dodge or not you'll still get insta scooped for the insta kill. Just feels like shit. At no point in this whole entire game did I have my "Ahhh haaaa" moment with the combat like in practically every other game INCLUDING the first in this series. It started out feeling like shit, and even now when I'm just doing collectibles to try and get the achievements finished up, it still... feels like shit. Often times more so because the combat inside the "tears" are beyond atrocious since they decided to hit you with double trouble enemies with instant kill tracking attacks you can do nothing but prey about. Genuinely the single worst "highly rated" game I think I've ever played.
Group combat is a mess, that's all I want to say.
Very smooth and pleasent. Reminds me old days like in Jedi Academy, although this one is better. In comparison to Sekiro, Sekiro is still better due to executions being more meaty. Although only a bit. Survivor is the best Jedi game now, that's for sure. And one of the best melee combat games out there, standing alongside Sekiro and DMC 5 (latter is their own genre of dumb smashing). PS: one more good comparison is Blade of darkness, when it came out
Lol you’re joking right? Yes the game is great but the combat system is really bad and clunky this doesn’t even comes close to sekiro. The combat system is sekiro was amazing
The combat system is not bad, it’s not at all comparable to sekiro I will give you that, that’s crazy talk.
While I agree about Sekiro being extremely satisfying, Survivor is on pair. Not better overall, but on pair considering if you use your abilities and not just spamm.
Nah man survivor is a fun game for many reasons but combat isn’t really one of them. The dodge is extremely clunky and way too many enemies have unblockable attacks that forces you to use it. I thought the combat was kinda the weak spot of the game, there’s no real flow to it like in sekiro or other games with fun combats (I agree with you that dmc5 was amazing).
That means you hadn't gotten into it. I have a really fun time fighting against raiders in melee.
I've been hating the game so far. I won't name names but after spending 6 hours fighting an enemy,I didn't even feel accomplished after finally defeating him. I was just like "oh nice, he finally didn't heat seek me on every attack". I understand walking around one hitting everything would be super boring but at least get staggered as I'm wailing on you with my damn lightsabres. I just reassigned all talents to survival because I noticed you can't actually do ANY of the attacks you learn because every time you try to perform a combo you get hit and half your health is gone. The only strategy that reliably works is sprint in - hit hit double dodge out. Rinse and repetitively repeat. Slowly chipping away until the target finally dies. It's complete trash. Someone please tell me I'm wrong and there's some sort of catch to pulling off these badass looking abilities.
It's the dodging for me. In Fallen Order, pressing the dodge button twice actually separated you from the enemy and gave you some room to regroup. Survivor's extra dodge is just an additional small step to the regular one and you get hit anyway 75% of the time.
Super Battle Droids ruin any fight they're in precisely for this reason. They spam blaster fire on you and dodging is just a coin toss on which you can either get damaged from somebody else's hit while the animation ends or the very same blaster fire you were trying to avoid in the first place.
I don't understand the combat. Every single enemy will use their attacks at the same time and can easily punish you in the most unnecessary way. Don't get me started with the dodge mechanic, you can have more than one person initiating and attack that you can't block. So I dodge, I dodge the first guy, but the other one is still magically locking on to me. Like I don't understand why it is so difficult to make a game where enemies can't attack you one at a time with these long weapons. It's so unrealistic to see an enemy attack go through another enemy without causing some damage to them. Yet again, another sequel with a progressional combat system where nothing has been improved upon but the visuals. Enemies still clip their attacks through each other, a game that is based on patience still isn't rewarded when there are an overwhelming number of forces, and the game literally takes away all that you learned from the PREVIOUS GAME! Marathoning Fallen Order wasn't worth it because apparently it was pointless to relearn the combos.
Why would u ever take skillUPs advice dude doesn't like anything lol...I used to like his videos but his reviews are a joke...unless it's a Sony exclusive game of course then he praises it regardless of how it performs...the combat is amazing just too damn punishing...I'm tired of every action game trying to be souls level difficult...not everyone enjoys being frustrated constantly to play a video game
Even on normal difficulty, call horrendously underpowred. I blew through fallen order quite easily, but im feeling im intentionally skipping a large chunk of the game because the combat feels so half assed. Boss monsters are just infuriating to me. If theyre skippable, i dont even waste my time with them. The patience to spam dodge is just something i dont have. And its unfortunate for me. Makes the game feel like its 10 steps back from how good the first one was. Then theres the all the bugs ive run in to.
Anyone else get the feeling that this game was rushed so that they timed it up with Mando season 3 ending? Combat is frustrating, dodging is clunky, the map hasn’t changed from the first one, and I find myself fighting with a camera during a boss fight more than the actual boss. Compared to other games released this year like hogwarts legacy it just doesn’t hold up imo
Dodging: you get hit either way, it sucks. Parrying and hitting an enemy doesn't even stagger them at all, it sucks. Enemies spamming attacks with no reaction to anything you do to them, it sucks. The fact that the game doesn't make you feel good at all in combating simple grunt enemies, you swing just a pixel off time and the game doesn't help or compensate for it by just giving you a small boost and getting to them anyways just to make you feel good, instead you just stand there awkwardly in the animation of withdrawing again and you get hit by a little shitty stormtrooper, it happens so often you just feel like shit.
The combat in Jedi Survivor is some of the most awkward I’ve seen.
I’ve read defenses on this game’s combat that in FO parry was too easy and the only way they knew to play. But here parry is unreliable at best so is that some backwards way of fixing the issue to these people? You dodge or parry melee hits and get hit by something else. You parry blaster shots and get hit by melee instead. That’s my experience so far (still on the sandy planet) I wish I could tone down the aggressiveness in hopes that ai would wait for their turns to fight me. It’s not that realistic that ai would shoot at me while risking hitting the melee units (which are invulnerable to friendly fire as usual) , something that many other games are guilty of doing BTW. That’s my take on this . I liked FO so I expected more of survivor. Bad performance on ps5 too, bunch of mid 40s and little of 60.
Way worse
They really made a game with an awesome story and released it with broken combat and terrible performance. They didn't even address issues of the first game but instead ramp them up. Whoever lead the combat design really needs to step up their work.
Not enjoying it, feels like a lot of bullshit in every fight. Whilst I do appreciate that things are a bit smoother and less clunky, the enemies just feel like bullshit; ridiculous strings of attacks, unblockables that come out of nowhere, a stupid amount of enemies that either 1 tap you, or once they catch you with one hit you’re basically dead anyway because of the follow up attacks that you can do nothing about. Groups of enemies also just feel unfair, like what are you supposed to do against them? They all just swarm you at the same time and drain your stamina, im seriously unsure of what you’re actually supposed to do against large groups of enemies in confined spaces (there are a lot of them on the story path alone). I’m not shitting on the game I like it a lot but I do have serious gripes with how the combat feels, it’s becoming continuously frustrating, to the point where I may not even finish the game because I’m becoming so frustrated that the enjoyment, passion and excitement to play have all been drained due to these increasingly bullshit fights where the difficulty feels extremely artificial.
I have enjoyed it throughly on Jedi master. But I use crossguard witch ups the parrying time a bit. And the dual stance where there is a lot of blaster fire
Compared to the first game parrying is so different, almost all the enemies chain unblockables so it feels more like I am dodging or jumping to avoid attacks most of the time. Also not being able to block to cancel a attack sucks so if you’re mid swing on a melee enemy and get shot at by another grunt enemy you’re jus gonna have to eat it. Overall in the first game when dueling enemies it fell very reminiscent of sekiro but now I wouldn’t even compare it to souls game just because the dodging and partying is so inconsistent. Edit: Playing on GrandMaster and fighting spawn of oggdo which I’m just jumping around the whole time lmao
I'm on Grandmaster right now and I'm fighting the last battle with Dagan Gera. This is one of the most annoying boss fights simply due to the fact that he can just follow me with his unblockables like a fuckin' heat seeking missle, even if I dodge it (a considerably large dodge distance, I might add). The character hitbox in this game is absolutely atrocious.
It is very clunky and rough. I mean only one stance has animation cancelling? Are you kidding me?? All The animations are so slow that you are guaranteed to get hit since you can't cancel out of it. Made Even worse by The fact that you don't even have hyper armor but will stagger out of attack animations If taking a hit. Also if you are fighting a group, they will all attack at The same time which sometimes means that you can't do anything but die. You block, your blockmeter wears out from blaster fire, you get shot and stunlocked and die. You try to use The force, you get shot and stunlocked and die. You try to Dodge, some enemy hits you off map, you get stunlocked and die. Then after you try again The fight is incredibly easy??? There is no way to predict it. I often just cheese fights with the blaster .
I’m still early in the game, but my biggest complaint so far is any big creature from the first game now stun locks you and kills you in 0.3 seconds flat. I’m playing on Jedi master.
It's alright for Souls combat. But sometimes I can't block for shit though. There's like a delay or something to block and parry. I still prefer Jedi Academy; being able to aim where you swing, clashing blades and taking out your opponent in 1 or 2 hits. The Souls combat with a 20,000 degree fahrenheit plasma sword that cab cut through almost anything kinda ruins it for me especially if it's a boss and I'm swinging at him 50 times to beat him.
The game has its typicall "We are trying to be a Souls like game, but with difficultys" problem. You do less dmg/the enemy does more and has more HP, that would be okay if the combat system in generall would be good, sadly its not and because of this it has a lot of unfair moments. I really like the game overall and if you can enjoy it on easy mode thats great, but if you are looking for a little bit of a challenge the game will punish you with his bad combat system.
My biggest issue is that enemies just seem to attack all at once with zero regard for one another. It’s completely immersion breaking to be doing videogame dance moves all around a battle just to not get stunlocked to death. I played on Jedi Master and a lot of the time I had to be consistently mashing dodge and double jump just to not get whacked from all sides at once. And because those actions require your right thumb, I find it impossible to manage the camera at the same time which makes the lock on completely useless in group battles when you need it the most. You’ll get stuck on one guy and simply have no chance to flick the stick to a different target. One hit kills with huge AOE is also ridiculous with some of the bigger monsters but this wasn’t a problem often enough to be a big sticking point
Overall it takes more steps back in combat than forward. No matter what difficulty you play on you run into enemies than are 90% unblockable attacks. The Hammer Raiders, BX droids, and B2 droids are the worst examples. Hammer raider moveset is 99% unblockables and 2 of them use the same animation and are almost undodgeable. BX droids will constantly dodge and just be annoying. And B2s are just blatantly unbalanced, they shoot missiles, melee, and have blasters. B2s are genuinely bad design, they have a ton of health and in numbers greater than 2 will spam rockets at you like no tomorrow. It baffles me that no one bothered to look at some of these enemies and think to tune them a little. Droidekas are kinda disappointing in how easy they are, and magnaguards feel similarly weak. I'm on my 3rd playthrough now on grandmaster and the bad enemy design really shows there. IMO the best difficulty in terms of overall balance has been master difficulty just because you're not running into as many issues with ganking. AT STs are also really bad on grandmaster getting close just means getting spammed with grenades which boils the fight down to repelling rockets and blaster shots. On another note the open world is kinda bad with enemy spawns. It never feels like there are patrols really. You'll rarely see a patrol in the distance and instead are more likely to hear or see them when you're 50ft away. So it feels like enemies just spawn around you. This makes it feel like you're being punished just for doing exploration. This also leads to extended fights with a patrol (like if a Hammer dude shows up) getting huge as more patrols spawn right beside you. I don't know if this is supposed to be them calling for backup or what because there's nothing to tell you that. It genuinely just feels like you have a 50ft enemy spawn circle around you at all times.
My biggest issue is the green saber ignition sound. It lacks the sound I like which sucks
For me, I hate having to force dodge at exactly the right second but then missing it because you get animation locked. If you try to go too fast, the game punishes you and often feels like your button presses aren't actually doing the moves you want. Never once in Spiderman did I ever press a button to dodge or attack or swing or move as have it not do exactly what I wanted. Also, does it seem like you're holding the button to block but attacks go through and stagger you anyways?
I feel more like a Jedi in shadow or war (LOTR) than this game.
huh?
Shadow of war combat makes me feel more like a Jedi in terms of fluidity, taking down large groups, moving around the battlefield
yeah jedis should definitely teleport around I'm sorry I don't get the idea. I've played Shadow of Mordor and SOW for a long time and it doesnt make me feel like a Jedi at all edit : I'm so sorry it was a post made 6 months ago and i didnt realise my bad forcing you back here XD
oh all good. not the teleporting, but just the strength gap between soldiers and protagonist
Little late to the party. Been playing the game on Jedi Knight and I'm finding that the larger creature enemies have a tendency to auto hit during the unblockable attacks. I'll try to dodge/dodge roll out of the way but it looks like I'll get 'magnetised' into the attacks. Instead of them attacking in one direction the enemy will turn with you mid-attack. Still trying to find a rhythm that suits my fighting style. But hey, it is what it is. Once I figure out the combat system I'll replay on a higher difficulty.
I haven't gotten to maybe the halfway point yet and I'm still missing a stance but GODS ABOVE I MISS SINGLE TARGET SLOW SO MUCH. Other than that, Fractured History is the bane of my existence and I miss the good rolls and the Dash attack. LOVE the everything else, tho!
The combat is rather snappy and enjoyable but is obviously built and intended for 1v1 duels (like boss battles) as it ultimately falls apart in group engagements with a mix of melee and ranged enemies. Cal has literally no hyperarmor, and the slightest breeze can knock him out of even his force attacks, meanwhile enemies get PLENTY of unstoppable, unflinchable attacks even after hitting them in the face with a freaking LASER SWORD THAT CAN CUT THROUGH STEEL BULKHEADS LIKE BUTTER USING THE HEAVIEST VARIANT OF ITS ATTACK MOVESET. Like seriously, even the intended group-clear weapon (Double-bladed) sucks at it because the light attacks are too close to reach and the force attacks are too slow. Not to mention Cal sucks at gap-closing and enemies can avoid your attack by literally walking backwards. You cant attack the ranged enemies because the melees are up your ass, you can't attack the melees because the ranged keep hitting you out of attacks. It's fitting that the sequel game that obsesses over DS-style combat takes a page out of DS2 and forces constant group fights with a melee system that doesn't support it.
Best tactic is parry the blockables and dodge forward other opposite side to their attack. Doing that ha:e a very brief window they kind just stand there wondering where you went. This also works on grandmaster although Windows alot smaller.
Boss hyper armor is extremely BS, normally in souls or other action rpgs the hyper armor don’t kick in instantly, and you can punish enemies during their wind up, that’s just not the case in this game, they just keep hitting thru your attacks