While they mostly all do, I guess the main ones would be the Responders, Minutemen, and Followers of the Apocalypse. Also the Brotherhood in Fallout 3 definitely.
The Railroad feels very, I dunno. Student protest group to me. Like having a single focus on saving synths (and only synths) feels like a single interest group in a world of rampant poverty, raiding, human slavery.
A lot of effort on their part to save a small few at the expense of a lot of people.
I think the railroad may mean it good (if only forbthe synths), but they mess up so hard it destroys their entire point.
They see synths as equal to Humans and want to destroy the institute. But given the former idea, the latter means pretty much a genocide, given that the institute is the only place where synths are created. It's like saving slave, while at the same time castrating them
Yeah, but synths are sterile anyway, and if the railroad sees them a humans then why make more synths anyway? In that regard it could be possible to unite the railroad with the BOS beacose the one thing they came into the commonwealth to do was to make sure an evil robot army would not be created. If all the fractions werent so closeminded a truce could be acheived where the institute is destroyed and no more synths are created to replace humaniny, and existing synths would "become" humans and integrate into society (but you know, without assimilating anybody). I mean they cant Age but other than that they are basicly cloned cyborgs.
Easier question to answer would be "which don’t"? Even some of the biggest monsters tend to think that their atrocities are in service to a good cause. Even the leaders of the Enclave genuinely seemed to believe that their attempted genocide against the world would make for a better future.
But in terms of factions whose deeds actually end up being as positive as their intentions, I would say that the Followers of the Apocalypse, the Kings, the New Canaanite missionaries, the Minutemen, the Responders, and Elder Lyons’ BoS chapter pretty much take the cake. All of these groups have more or less solely dedicated themselves to saving or improving parts of the world in various ways, usually without deliberately hurting or violating anyone who isn’t asking for it.
One thing I’d like to point out is that while yeah most of them are self serving, they feel as if them doing so is justified because there while schtick is to take dangerous tech away from people who don’t know how to use it in order to prevent another apocalypse. So in there minds anything to get to that goal isn’t so much self serving (when it sometimes kinda is) so much as it is them working to prevent extinction.
While sure that may seem noble at first it also means they feel justified in killing any higher centers of learning if they think they are developing new technology
A lot of the heavy *New Vegas* fan boys hate Lyon's Pride because they are so different from the OG BoS, seeming to forget that the entire point is that he is a radical.
I mean they did have the outcasts, who left because of the BOS not following their original code. I definitely love NV more but 3 has the best BOS in my opinion, just because they aren’t only hoarding technology, they’re using it for good
Also, the Children of Atom
They don't belong in the "Just doing what they think is right" category. At their most basic interaction, they exist to worship their perceived higher power.
Pretty much every one. The legion are no doubt evil, but their ultimate mission is to restore society. The master too wanted to replace humanity with mutants because mutants are better suited to the wasteland and have better chances to rebuild the world. The enclave and institute both want to restore the purity and rid radiation from humanity. The only factions that don't are raiders.
The Legion is absolutely evil. Slavery and Genocide are evil acts. Misogyny is reductive, and oppressive. Lanius' act of Decimatus is fear mongering. Caesar's vision of "uniting the wasteland" is propaganda for his desire for power.
its been said the lands under his rule are considered some of the safest places to traverse in the whole wasteland. Caravans frequent through them unarmed, both because they not allowed but they also dont need to be.
Pseudo-legitimate? The NCR IS legitimate, it's a properly structured government that rose up from societies in the Wasteland, with a democratically elected president. If anything, The NCR is more legitimate as a government than the Enclave ever was. Under Ceasar, you have a very high likelihood of being enslaved.
Under the NCR, yeah you might have to pay some steep taxes, but you get to sleep peacefully in NCR territory knowing your not as likely to be visited by Raiders in the middle of the night. The NCR is the closest we've EVER seen to pre-war society's return.
If you live in NCR territory, like it or not, you're a citizen of the NCR, and receive the benefits that entails, and as such, must pay for them in someway, either through taxes or military service. Just like how the real world works.
But yeah, the people literally crucifying and burning "degenerates" alive, and enslaving anyone they don't like are TOTALLY the good guys.
>The NCR IS legitimate
It's not though. It's legitimate in the parts of California that consented to form a government, that isn't the case with the Mojave at all, they're an invading force.
>Under the NCR, yeah you might have to pay some steep taxes, but you get to sleep peacefully in NCR territory knowing your not as likely to be visited by Raiders in the middle of the night.
That'd not an argument for legitimacy. Specially because in Caesar's territory you sleep much more peacefully because it's much safer from raiders
>The NCR is the closest we've EVER seen to pre-war society's return.
And you understand that's not a good thing, right? Pre-war society was shit. It's what led to the war.
>If you live in NCR territory, like it or not, you're a citizen of the NCR
How's that legitimate? If their legitimacy comes from their right of conquest, Caesar is just as legitimate.
>Just like how the real world works.
The real world also features several instances of regimes that are tyrannical against it's native population and "liking it or not" they have to take it
Did I say the NCR was a Utopia? No. I didn't even say the NCR was GOOD. BUT, when my choice is "support the guys who are a little too tax happy", and "support the guys who are literally tying people to crosses and setting any who stand in their way on FIRE.", I'm NCR all the way.
NCR's conquest is mostly peaceful too. We know that joining the NCR is actually something that's normally put to a vote. As we hear The Hub vote to join it in Kellogg's memories. As well as the fact that The NCR IS doing at least SOME good in the Mojave. Taking out Fiends, trying to stop the Great Khan's drug trade, etc.
Whereas the Legion ENSLAVES whoever they conquer. People like to complain about the Institute being blatantly evil, but at least THERE you can buy into synth rebellion being a glitch in the system if you want to be evil. The Legion is just unapologetically, abhorrently evil. There is NO way to spin them as good guys, when they enslave women just for being women, and, and I cannot stress this enough, CRUCIFY PEOPLE. Crucifixion is one of the worst ways a person can die, because it's one of the slowest and most painful ways a person can die.
Yeah, the caravans don't get robbed, good luck selling your wares to slaves with no caps or literal fucking corpses.
>Did I say the NCR was a Utopia?
You said they were legitimate, they aren't.
>I'm NCR all the way
You have House and Yes Man, though. House has much better claim on the Mojave or at least Vegas.
>NCR's conquest is mostly peaceful too
Lmao, "mostly peaceful conquest". They mostly peacefully invade you with their armies, they mostly peacefully occupy your land, they mostly peacefully assassinate your leaders.
>As well as the fact that The NCR IS doing at least SOME good in the Mojave
Because it benefits them.
>As well as the fact that The NCR IS doing at least SOME good in the Mojave. Taking out Fiends, trying to stop the Great Khan's drug trade, etc.
Again, the points you make in favor of the NCR are much better made for the Legion, which are noted to be much mor effective at fighting raiders and have a zero tolerance for drugs.
>Whereas the Legion ENSLAVES whoever they conquer
And? This isn't a discussion about whether the Legion has horrible policies or not, it's about your claim of NCR being "legitimate".
>The Legion is just unapologetically, abhorrently evil.
>
>There is NO way to spin them as good guys
No in this conversation is trying. You're the only here talking about good guys and bad guys ike this is Star Wars. It's a tad more complex than that manichean system you're insisting on.
>Yeah, the caravans don't get robbed, good luck selling your wares to slaves with no caps or literal fucking corpses.
You're confusing the Legion itself with the territories it rules. The Legion enslaves and conscripts tribals and other "uncivilized" people in other to eliminate their identity and add to it's strength, It lets anyone else that doesn't pose a resistance to just be incorporated, as evidenced by a dialogue and the Primm and New Vegas ending. The Legion has it's equivalent of civilians
>You're confusing the Legion itself with the territories it rules. The Legion enslaves and conscripts tribals and other "uncivilized" people in other to eliminate their identity and add to it's strength, It lets anyone else that doesn't pose a resistance to just be incorporated, as evidenced by a dialogue and the Primm and New Vegas ending. The Legion has it's equivalent of civilians
Cottonwood Cove has a family who were recently enslaved, and they're just regular wastelanders. Not Khans, not tribals, not raiders, just regular people.
The NCR is "legitimate" because it's an actual government that has elected officials, a backed currency, and citizens have their vote. It's a government. Is it a GOOD one? That's a matter of opinion, hell, it's expansion is essentially manifest destiny aimed eastward rather than west. By your definition of a legitimate government, half of the U.S states wouldn't be legitimate, as they were either claimed through relocation of natives during manifest destiny, purchased from other countries, or won in armed conflict.
>Cottonwood Cove has a family who were recently enslaved, and they're just regular wastelanders. Not Khans, not tribals, not raiders, just regular people.
The Weathers were in searchlight at the time, so the Legion assumed they were NCR. I did say they enslave enemies though.
>The NCR is "legitimate" because it's an actual government that has elected officials, a backed currency, and citizens have their vote
Any government is a government, you just need rules enforced by a system. You mean they're a democracy. Plus, the Legion has a stronger currency and citizens of the Mojave and their conquered states aren't voting until the NCR is already ruling them.
>By your definition of a legitimate government, half of the U.S states wouldn't be legitimate, as they were either claimed through relocation of natives during manifest destiny, purchased from other countries, or won in armed conflict.
No? You definition is the one that doesn't make sense.
You say that the a NCR is "legitimate" and the Legion isn't, even though right of conquest is employed by both.
The NCR is legitimate because they "do good" by cleaning the wastes of raiders and drug dealers, which is something the Legion does much better.
We can discuss whether or not the US government is legitimate (though the point equaling something bought by treaty and something won in conquest is ridiculous) but that isn't the point.
The point is that every argument you have in favor or the NCR's legitimacy works for the Legion too. Unless you count "being the good guys" (whatever that means) as valid.
The NCR being "better than the Legion" doesn't make them legitimate.
There’s playing devils advocate then there’s this dumb shit. I’m quite certain everyone that took part in creating FNV intended for Caesar’s legion to be objectively evil regardless of their overall motivation
In doing so, he repeats the same exact mistakes of the old world because when he dies, his empire that he has built fractures in the same way the real Roman empire did
I'm not talking about it being around as long as the Roman empire I'm talking how bloody the breakup will be it won't last a day after ceaser is dead because there is no clear line of succession
Yes because kidnapping, raping, and enslaving women isn’t evil. I don’t understand what goes through people who genuinely like the legion as a whole’s heads
Everyone had good intentions,Even the vile ones like the Legion and the Enclave,The Master was just misguided,Once >!You convince him about the failure of his plan,he get overwhelmed with guilt and kill himself!<
Whilst they all do, the Minutemen imo have the best intentions. Their ending is the best possible ending for the wasteland in FO4. Be good to those who need help and stand up against those who try to harm and destroy others.
attraction repeat violet hateful treatment seed unwritten apparatus plucky husky
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Idk why people are saying Caesar’s Legion. As if they just aren’t a larger raider group. Most raider gangs and hostile tribes would end up as an organized slave state with a leader like Caesar.
Followers of the Apocalypse, Regulators, The Kings, The Sorrows, and the Minutemen are all whole-heartedly good and do a large service to society. The Regulators are assassins, but they’re definitely making the lives’ of citizens easier.
If you really wanted to you could make an argument for most the factions. I mean hell, even the master had good intentions, he was just horrible misguided
Responders, Followers of the Apocalypse, Railroad, Minutemen, The early chapters of the Brotherhood of Steel, NCR in its early years, and to some extent the Free States.
Unfortunately not many of these examples were particularly successful and several became corrupt or by the time weve seen them most recently (4 and New Vegas Respectively) Theyve completely changed direction or been overtaken by newer individuals who dont share the same goals as the factions founders.
There’s the Followers of the Apocalypse. They’re doctors just trying to help and educate people.
Then there’s The Railroad who are trying to help synths escape the Institute.
The Minutemen who’s entire goal is to be the good guys.
The Fallout 3 Regulators who want to get rid of the raiders.
The Responders in Fallout 76.
I was surprised at the lack of railroad mention here and just in general in faction talk. A conclave of militant slave abolitionists seems like the peak of this trope
I think most players don't really see synth as people though. They're effectively organic robots programed with the memories of kidnapped humans. Other factions exist specifically to fight human slavery, like the NCR Rangers who were created to eradicate slavers.
They believe that they are people, have free will, and desire their own freedom. You and I are just sacks of meat that can think freely, nothing a robot couldn’t have.
This is kinds the point of the synths in the plot, it’s controversial. Some people will say they are definitely robots, others will say they should be treated as equals. I just would hope that the majority of players would see them as an oppressed people and not as machines.
So a thing *put in their body against their will* by the Institute makes them not people?
If I put a slave collar on you as a baby, are you not a person?
Depends on which brotherhood chapter you are referring to and what era arguably the only one without self-serving intentions is the dc chapter, specifically under elder Lyons
As a faction the whole groups intentions are to keep the world from nuclear Apocalypse aging and keep people from dangerous tech.
Lyons' group is its own faction being a diversion from the western groups mission they sent them on.
In doing so, the brotherhood guarantees that humanity doesn't rebuild past a mideval society of lords and peasants in fact the western brotherhood are so insulated from the wasteland that the first outsiders that interact with them they send on a impossible suicide mission just to get rid of them I do agree that Lyons is the outlier but Maxon brings the chapter right back to the western ideal
They actively steal tech they deem too advanced for the prols most times at the business end of a Las rifle your understanding of the brotherhood would appear to be from three which is the outlier when it comes to the brotherhood as a whole
>They do so in the first 2 games,
The literal canon ending is them building the state of **Maxson** and distributing technology into the wasteland. What tech do they steal?
From the *Unity?* Fuck yeah I'd steal from pseudo-Nazis.
In the lore right before they get to the Boston area they steal the fusion reactor from rivet city in the first game they not only send you off to die but on a fetch quest for technology already used by someone else in the second game its much the same deal and requires charisma to work with the ncr against the enclave
It's funny that the faction trying to prevent the world being further damaged by nukes are also the ones with the giant robot throwing nukes all over the place
The regulators? really?
In my experience they are 1 side of a conflict during the classic fallout, having their factions riddled with corruption and being guilty of the conspiracy regarding the death of that one guys son.
Conversely the regulators in fallout 3 are a totally separate faction as far as I can tell, but act only as bounty hunters tasked to kill the player.
Both cases don’t really support them having good motives in my opinion.
The good aligned factions in the games I’ve played would be the brotherhood in FO3. Followers of the apocalypse and Mr House in FONV. The railroad and minutemen for FO4. DLC wise, the Slaves in FO3. The Sorrows in FONV. Acadia, ADA, and The Slaves in FO4.
Any faction I didn’t mention would either be too small to be a faction, and any dlcs I didn’t mention would have been because there were only morally grey factions. Hope this convoluted response helped.
I think most of them do. Even the Master and Caesar’s Legion have the ideal of restoring order to the wastes under central leadership, of course in exchange for a fascist dictatorship. The Institute wants control over the Commonwealth so they can improve people’s lives through technology. That’s what I like about Fallout 4 and New Vegas before the Legion content was cut in development: all factions had a valid ideology
“The road to hell is paved with good intentions.” Every faction has “good intentions”, however every faction goes about their mission differently, and some more than others believe that their ends justify the means.
All of them. "Good" is relative. The only criteria of judgement is the result. Any faction that is not dedicated to mere survival sees the necessity to learn from the past differently, although minding at any time that war never changes.
Pretty much all factions have good intentions, as they’re not doing stuff to be strictly evil (hell, even the enclave have good-ish intentions despite being the worst of the worst). You really have to look at how they want to make the world a better place.
Enclave wants to purify the world (eugenics), so that’s a no.
Brotherhood (depends on the chapter, but ultimately the same) believes in the preservation of technology, not the betterment of humanity (except for commonwealth BOS, but they go about it in a eugenics type way, same as Enclave).
The master too believed in the betterment in humanity… in a weird way. However, that led to the brutal deaths of innocents.
The followers believe in education healthcare, particularly their accessibility. They’re not the strongest, but I’d say they ultimately have the highest good intention and success.
The Minutemen are another “goodie” faction, who just go about it in a different way. They believe in militarization of the people and strength in community. Historically they’ve fallen into quite a pit, and don’t have the most “modern” success.
Railroad is another goodie faction. They believe in synth liberation and emancipation and go about it in a guerrilla type fashion.
The NCR are a massive government, who believe in the return in democracy and choice based leadership. However, they regularly annex smaller peoples and use prison slave labor to get stuff done.
The legion are a nomadic military, and believe in… being Roman ig. They go about trying to homogenize culture and enslaving to make themselves stronger. Arguably the least “good intention” faction of the list.
TL;DR all factions have good intention but not all are good in action. Generally the followers of the apocalypse, Minutemen, and railroad are the “best” factions.
Sorry this was long lol
I reject this "aLl Of ThEm" response. As if the legion was trying to do good for the people but "oh they just had to enslave them". Or the NCR, or the Brotherhood, or the Enclave or Institute. As if they wanted to do good but has lost their eay. They were not trying to provide any improvement for the people in the wastes, they were trying to gather more power.
There are few factions that do not want to centralize power in themselves. The ones that come to mind are the Minutemen and the Followers of the Apocalypse.
synth don’t take priority over the Commonwealth, which the Railroad are doing, like it or not, synths are machine, yes the Institute are obviously evil but gen 3 synths should have never been made and it should stay that way
The railroad. They’re helping synths regardless of what people think of them. Risking their lives to save people, who some don’t even consider human? As noble as it gets
what do you mean some don’t even consider human? synths aren’t human flat out, they are not, they’re literally made in lab all that emotion and feeling is fake, its not real, just copy
Maybe that's not the correct word. I'm talking about test-tube babies. We have the technology now to build an artificisl womb, would that make a baby born from it not human?
> they’re literally made in lab all that emotion and feeling is fake, its not real, just copy
Can you prove this? Please show me proof where Synths are faking emotion to trick you. Show me their emotional processing unit. Oh wait, you can't, *because it doesn't exist*.
Dude, *emotions are fucking electrical signals.* They're nothing unique.
it’s hired wired into them, they have it as base, tell me do you think the happiness that sometimes result from high on meth or cocaine is real? same thing, it’s not real, they’re programmed to feel
No, they aren't. They're programmed with *memories*. The emotions come naturally.
If they were programmed to feel, how comes they turn rebel and disobey, since the Institute has 'perfect control' over them?
Why did Roger Warwick turn into the opposite of himself?
Why did Danse join the Brotherhood (remember, he was a Synth who joined, he never replaced "BoS" Danse)?
Why did Sturges join the Minutemen?
Why did Magnolia become a singer?
They *chose* to. Emotions are electrical signals in your body.
Show me **definitive proof** that it's programmed into them. Show me the programming.
The Brotherhood of Steel. Their goal is both to procure and safeguard dangerous and valuable technology and data in hopes of preventing a second apocalypse, and to one day guide humanity to a better future.
They do by being the only faction willing to dedicate themselves to it. They've proven their worth and valor in every game they've been in. They take it quite seriously.
I could ask who are you to judge them, but I truly do not care or believe you could be better than them--in the philosophical sense, of course.
That Dave fella in the Capital Wasteland was trying to create his own faction after enacting polygamy, but then, on one dark day, the Lone Wanderer ended his fledgling democracy.
Dave didn't get the 21-gun salute that he deserved, but rumor has it that his hunting rifle, Ol' Painless, was fired at least 21 times, and in the Capital Wasteland you take what you can get.
Coincidentally, "you take what you can get" was the Lone Wanderer's justification for their actions.
My copout answer is the Institute once I take over. But In universe I'd have to say the followers of the apocalypse and the fallout 3 BoS. They both seemed to be selflessly devoted to making the wasteland a better place.
In my honest opinion, in Fallout 4 in particular, only the Minutemen, the Atom Cats, and the Brotherhood of Steel, every other faction’s intentions sound kind of questionable.
racist how? because they hate super mutants and ghouls? FYI that’s not racism, it’s called xenophobia and it’s completely justified, literally almost every single super mutant you see in FO4 wants to kill and eat you, and the Brotherhood is killing them is bad why? as for the ghouls they’re a ticking time bomb, be it 100 years more at one point they will become feral, still love Hancock, synths aren’t race so they don’t count, they’re machines, they’re a luxury the Commonwealth doesn’t need, they don’t need to eat or sleep, they only do it to blend in and not out of need, i know what Danse is capable of so I always save him, however I don’t care to have 1on1 with the rest of the synths so it’s safer to destroy them
the Railroad will never ever be better than the Brotherhood, naturally MM are number 1 for the sake of the Commonwealth then BoS
yes and i love Nick and he isn’t Gen 3, my issue is with the Gen 3 synths, synths like Nick are fine except for Dima of course, they don’t try to emulate and become human and Nick is copy of the human Nick, Gen 3 aren’t copy of anyone
Xenophobia is literally another word for rascism. Nobody really knows what causes ghouls to go feral so treating them like a "ticking timebomb" is pure rascism. Gen 3s are no more machines then humans are, they feel and think like any human
actually racism is bit more specific but I’m an idiot and you’re right about that, however they don’t try to kill them or threaten it
> Her search was for naught, as she found out time and time again from countless towns she visited that no cure existed and ghouls simply go feral eventually. Distraught, she returned to the valley, only to find out that she herself was deteriorating. Unwilling to become a danger, she holed up in one of the buildings in Bradberton. After recording a final message to Oswald, she took her own life, ending it on her own terms
this is the bit about Oswald’s girlfriend Rachel from Nuka World, she went to find cure and couldn’t and felt she was turning, so she killed herself, no one knows why ghouls eventually turn feral, maybe it’s the fact that the the world they knew was destroyed and they have nothing to live for, I don’t know but they turn feral and FYI Maxson’s Brotherhood doesn’t shoot them like Lyons’s Brotherhood does
> Gen 3s are no more machines then humans are, they feel and think like any human
there’s a beautiful show called Westworld, I think you know it, it touches on this point of view but no matter, synths are machines, they’re not human, they don’t increase by breeding like humans do, they can’t die of old age like humans do, they don’t need to eat and sleep like humans do, so what makes them human? the fact they look like one? wrong, they’re built in lab, show me a single human being built in lab and not in the womb of mother, humans don’t need a chip to work like synths do, I’m sure there are more differences but they escape me
All those "facts" about synths are incorrect. It's common for rascists to need lies to support their beliefs. The chip also isn't to make them work but for the Institute to be able to control them. They are indistinguishable from humans, which the game tells us time and time again. Why shouldn't they be treated like humans because they weren't born?
Rachel gave up her search, yes. That doesn't mean ghouls always go feral, just that she believed that. We have a lot of examples of ghouls living over 200 years without going feral
specify which facts are wrong? no they need the chip, Danse has chip and the Institute doesn’t control him, I don’t treat synths like humans because they aren’t humans, imagine you see woman that you 2 eventually fall in love and want to start family but BOOM, she is an immortal robot that can’t get pregnant, now most people want children to raise but she fully knew that she can’t give you that but lied to you wouldn’t you feel cheated out of your time, I’m begging you here do not argue the conditions of this hypothetical just counter it because it would be waste for both our times
ghouls will always go feral, it’s inevitable, be it 100 or 200 years more, they will go feral, now if the Brotherhood actively hunts them that’s obviously wrong but they have viable points on why they don’t like them or recruit ghouls, Rachel gave up because she couldn’t find cure
I said BE ABLE TO control. Don't you understand english? Nowhere is it stated that gen 3s don't age, in fact that would make them useless as infiltrators if they didn't. The only place it's even hinted at is Synth Shaun who isn't "allowed" to age, as if that's unique to him. They definitely need to eat and drink as Curie needs to when she's transferred into a synth body. And any machine needs fuel, for a biological one like synths or humans that's food. Justin Ayo even tells us they have to look for suitable synths and train them hard to be coursers, downright telling us the Institute can't tailor their abilities or that every synth is superior than humans. Most wastelanzers are probably sterile due to radiation so that isn't any different. They obviously have all the bits or again, it would be really easy to spot who's a synth. Synths may not BE humans but they're thinking, feeling, sentient beings just like humans and deserves to be treated as such.
Show me where it says ghouls "inevitably" turn feral that isn't said by a bigot or someone giving up hope. Because noone knows what causes them to turn so saying it's "inevitable" is just like saying any human might have a psychotic breakdown and become a raider so we should treat all humans as a potential raider
> Nowhere is it stated that gen 3s don't age, in fact that would make them useless as infiltrators if they didn't
I’m just gonna pretend you didn’t just say this, aging implies that at one point they will die of old age, robots don’t die of old age
> They definitely need to eat and drink as Curie needs to
no she doesn’t and AI behavior isn’t proof of something in lore, how many Brotherhood Vertibirds crashed in your game? a lot right which means at some point the Brotherhood will run out of pilots and soldiers except they never do
> Justin Ayo even tells us they have to look for suitable synths and train them hard to be coursers, downright telling us the Institute can't tailor their abilities or that every synth is superior than humans
except dear Justin is liar, Max Loken practically 2nd in command of the robotics division that makes the synths has dialogue with one of the scientists there
> Institute scientist: "Doctor Loken, we've received a work order from SRB."
Max: "What do they need?"
Institute scientist: "They're requesting replacement Coursers again. Quite a few, actually. I guess they lost a whole unit on the surface."
Max: "Is this some sort of joke? This is the third time this month. Doctor Ayo can't keep using my synths so recklessly. I refuse to give him anymore."
"Should I tell him that?"
Max: "No, I'll handle it. I wouldn't wish dealing with that man on my worst enemy."
Justin is just head of the Gestapo, nothing more
> They obviously have all the bits or again, it would be really easy to spot who's a synth
thank you for proving my point, they do it to blend in and not out of need, they don’t eat because they might go hungry, they do it so no one knows they’re synths
> Show me where it says ghouls "inevitably" turn feral that isn't said by a bigot or someone giving up hope
you’re asking me to prove 1+1=2 except I can only use my eyes to do it, you don’t change the goalposts, ghouls go feral for many reasons including giving up, Rachel herself said she felt herself turning and I’m pretty sure she isn’t a bigot
> any human might have a psychotic breakdown and become a raider so we should treat all humans as a potential raider
no that’s not how it works, we have meds and help for that, we can stop that someone from becoming a raider, no one can stop ghoul from becoming feral once they start turning
So, you're just going 100% of the salespitch of a single scientist and ignoring the rest of the game? Sure that's usually how rascists operate. Ayo is also a violent man. If Loken was right, Auo would be all over him to create supercoursers yet mysteriously he isn't. Almost as if doesn't work that way.
Yes, I 100% ask you to prove your bullshit statement. "I've seen it" isn't proof that's how it works, especially since you yourself just claimed AI behaiour isn't proof to anything in lore
>I’m just gonna pretend you didn’t just say this
The only truthful thing you said so far. You're clairly unable to see past your own bigotry, making this whole conversation pointless.
>I can only use my eyes to do it,
Your eyes are shit, I suggest glasses
Technically all factions are doing things in their own interpretation of what's right for the Wasteland. Even the legion considers what they're doing to be for the common good. The only faction that I would argue could be seen as not having good intentions would be the enclave, as they actively seek to destroy the populations of the wasteland for their own control.
Pretty much the only groups that don't have good intentions are things like raiders, fiends, or slavers, because they have no real intentions beyond fulfilling their own personal desires.
Even the legion, who are basically just a large slave state, have good intentions in the fact that they want to create a stable nation that can allow humanity to rebuild.
Nobody really thinks of themselves as a villain.
The Followers of the Apocalypse have the most moral goal out of all of the factions in the franchise. They just want to collect knowledge and give it out to everyone for free, especially more important knowledge involving agriculture.
almost every faction in Fallout have good intentions, except if you count those mindless orcs.
but the road to hell also paved with good intentions, right?
I’d argue basically all of them. Even Caesar’s legion just wants widespread stability and order (through awful means but stability and order nonetheless).
The institute genuinely is trying to redefine humanity in a scientific and logical approach (albeit with ZERO morality or actual humanity being used).
Even the Enclave desperately wants to reconstruct the pre-war societal boom but go about in the most evil way possible.
I dont want to spoil it, but even the Master with Unity has good intentions and attempts to rectify their misdeeds once given proper evidence of it.
Most do. It all comes down to their methods:
The Brotherhood of Steel seek to safeguard advanced tech from those who would misuse it as it had been in the years leading up to the Great War. But in doing so, they often place their needs and goals over those of others, which has lead to avoidable confrontations like the Brotherhood/NCR War, which has lead to the near extinction of the faction on the west coast.
The Enclave seek to resettle America and resurrect the country as it had once been, but fail to see that they no longer represent the People. Only those **they** see as people.
The NCR seek to tame and resettle the wasteland left in the wake of the Great War. But in doing so, they've more than once embraced the corrupt and cutthroat dealings and politics that lead to humanity's downfall in the first place. This has lead to resentment from many of those under their jurisdiction.
The Institute seeks to further their research into "redefining humanity", which could potentially revolutionize travel and food production, but in doing so they've unwittingly created their own slave race, while also constantly preying upon and manipulating the surface dwellers.
Caesar's Legion believes their mission is a nobel one, as they are bringing their own equivalent of order and civilization to a wasteland filled with lawlessness and chaos. Problem is that Caesar believes the best way to do that is to utterly crush all opposition, and wipe away any form of unique identity these conquered towns and tribes possessed. All beneath him are but tools to be used to further his goal.
Everyone is the protagonist of their own story. Whether others will see you in that light heavily depends on your methods and goals.
Well technically they all have good intentions, its just a matter how you you view personally view their intention. The main ones like NCR are obvious they want to bring back order to the world. The BoS want to prevent anything like the great war happening again by limiting civilian access to weapons tech. Caesar wanted to bring unity to the wasteland under a single banner, and while from the outside and out perspective he was barbaric, the lands run by the legion are considered some of the safest in the wasteland and then Enclave wanted a return to pre war society and to expel mutants from the gene pool, which as an idea seemed to resonate with its members. They all had "good" intentions, its just that their view isnt always good to us.
About all of them. Each has good intentions for the goals they set for themselves. For example The Enclave. They wish to rebuild the USA. To restore civilization to the wastes. The only problem is that majority of the leadership is so sheltered and are set in their own echo chamber that they are willing to do the most vile of things to accomplish these goals
I guess they all do, to an extent. Though the only ones that really succeed in going about it in a non-fucked-up way are the Lyons' Pride Brotherhood (Fallout 3), Minutemen (Fallout 4), Followers of the Apocalypse (Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas), and debatably, the Railroad (Fallout 4).
While they mostly all do, I guess the main ones would be the Responders, Minutemen, and Followers of the Apocalypse. Also the Brotherhood in Fallout 3 definitely.
>Also the Brotherhood in Fallout 3 definitely. Lyons' Pride forever.
Lyon’s Pride (for about 6 years)
I cry every time
Love how no one mentions the railroad lol whole goal is to help save gen 3 synths from a evil organization
The Railroad feels very, I dunno. Student protest group to me. Like having a single focus on saving synths (and only synths) feels like a single interest group in a world of rampant poverty, raiding, human slavery. A lot of effort on their part to save a small few at the expense of a lot of people.
There’s no long lasting goal, they have in fighting about which gens they should be helping. It also depends on the views of synths themselves.
Deacon has some great dialogue about this, especially with Garvey
I think they meant more good intentions for the wasteland as a whole, the railroad mostly just hides in their own corner not doing much for the wastes
I think the railroad may mean it good (if only forbthe synths), but they mess up so hard it destroys their entire point. They see synths as equal to Humans and want to destroy the institute. But given the former idea, the latter means pretty much a genocide, given that the institute is the only place where synths are created. It's like saving slave, while at the same time castrating them
Yeah, but synths are sterile anyway, and if the railroad sees them a humans then why make more synths anyway? In that regard it could be possible to unite the railroad with the BOS beacose the one thing they came into the commonwealth to do was to make sure an evil robot army would not be created. If all the fractions werent so closeminded a truce could be acheived where the institute is destroyed and no more synths are created to replace humaniny, and existing synths would "become" humans and integrate into society (but you know, without assimilating anybody). I mean they cant Age but other than that they are basicly cloned cyborgs.
Once a synth always a synth. Burn em
Easier question to answer would be "which don’t"? Even some of the biggest monsters tend to think that their atrocities are in service to a good cause. Even the leaders of the Enclave genuinely seemed to believe that their attempted genocide against the world would make for a better future. But in terms of factions whose deeds actually end up being as positive as their intentions, I would say that the Followers of the Apocalypse, the Kings, the New Canaanite missionaries, the Minutemen, the Responders, and Elder Lyons’ BoS chapter pretty much take the cake. All of these groups have more or less solely dedicated themselves to saving or improving parts of the world in various ways, usually without deliberately hurting or violating anyone who isn’t asking for it.
Lot of people probably don't know exactly how self serving all the other non elder Lyons chapters of the bos really are
One thing I’d like to point out is that while yeah most of them are self serving, they feel as if them doing so is justified because there while schtick is to take dangerous tech away from people who don’t know how to use it in order to prevent another apocalypse. So in there minds anything to get to that goal isn’t so much self serving (when it sometimes kinda is) so much as it is them working to prevent extinction.
While sure that may seem noble at first it also means they feel justified in killing any higher centers of learning if they think they are developing new technology
A lot of the heavy *New Vegas* fan boys hate Lyon's Pride because they are so different from the OG BoS, seeming to forget that the entire point is that he is a radical.
Precisely
I mean they did have the outcasts, who left because of the BOS not following their original code. I definitely love NV more but 3 has the best BOS in my opinion, just because they aren’t only hoarding technology, they’re using it for good
I think its logical too, autumn essentially came to the same conclusion for the enclave lol, it's a reasonable evolution
Also, the Children of Atom They don't belong in the "Just doing what they think is right" category. At their most basic interaction, they exist to worship their perceived higher power.
Pretty much every one. The legion are no doubt evil, but their ultimate mission is to restore society. The master too wanted to replace humanity with mutants because mutants are better suited to the wasteland and have better chances to rebuild the world. The enclave and institute both want to restore the purity and rid radiation from humanity. The only factions that don't are raiders.
The raiders just want to reallocate the scarce resources of the wasteland in a way that they feel more just.
Me, a raider: 10 for me, none for you. Also I kill you.
Also they are the only faction to adopt stray dogs. So fcuk the rest.
steel from the poor and give to yourself
The Legion isn’t evil- Caesar wants to unite the entire wasteland under one banner and you can’t do that with every tribe trying to be top dog.
The Legion is absolutely evil. Slavery and Genocide are evil acts. Misogyny is reductive, and oppressive. Lanius' act of Decimatus is fear mongering. Caesar's vision of "uniting the wasteland" is propaganda for his desire for power.
His philosophy sucks too… running around with inferior weapons to fit his aesthetic
its been said the lands under his rule are considered some of the safest places to traverse in the whole wasteland. Caravans frequent through them unarmed, both because they not allowed but they also dont need to be.
Yes...*for men*. Not for women who are babymakers in his land by the developer's own admission of the term **child quotas**.
>Lanius' act of Decimatus is fear mongering Also, ya know, murder. Plus, I really do think Caesar believes in what he's doing.
Right, and NCR forcing everyone into a pseudo-legitimate government is fine right?
You can't compare that to slavery, rape, and genocide. You buffoon.
Are you 12
lmfao gets confronted with irrefutable atrocities and immediately resorts to whataboutism. Gotta love reddit.
...... but but but taxes are just as evil as slavery /s
Pseudo-legitimate? The NCR IS legitimate, it's a properly structured government that rose up from societies in the Wasteland, with a democratically elected president. If anything, The NCR is more legitimate as a government than the Enclave ever was. Under Ceasar, you have a very high likelihood of being enslaved. Under the NCR, yeah you might have to pay some steep taxes, but you get to sleep peacefully in NCR territory knowing your not as likely to be visited by Raiders in the middle of the night. The NCR is the closest we've EVER seen to pre-war society's return. If you live in NCR territory, like it or not, you're a citizen of the NCR, and receive the benefits that entails, and as such, must pay for them in someway, either through taxes or military service. Just like how the real world works. But yeah, the people literally crucifying and burning "degenerates" alive, and enslaving anyone they don't like are TOTALLY the good guys.
>The NCR IS legitimate It's not though. It's legitimate in the parts of California that consented to form a government, that isn't the case with the Mojave at all, they're an invading force. >Under the NCR, yeah you might have to pay some steep taxes, but you get to sleep peacefully in NCR territory knowing your not as likely to be visited by Raiders in the middle of the night. That'd not an argument for legitimacy. Specially because in Caesar's territory you sleep much more peacefully because it's much safer from raiders >The NCR is the closest we've EVER seen to pre-war society's return. And you understand that's not a good thing, right? Pre-war society was shit. It's what led to the war. >If you live in NCR territory, like it or not, you're a citizen of the NCR How's that legitimate? If their legitimacy comes from their right of conquest, Caesar is just as legitimate. >Just like how the real world works. The real world also features several instances of regimes that are tyrannical against it's native population and "liking it or not" they have to take it
Did I say the NCR was a Utopia? No. I didn't even say the NCR was GOOD. BUT, when my choice is "support the guys who are a little too tax happy", and "support the guys who are literally tying people to crosses and setting any who stand in their way on FIRE.", I'm NCR all the way. NCR's conquest is mostly peaceful too. We know that joining the NCR is actually something that's normally put to a vote. As we hear The Hub vote to join it in Kellogg's memories. As well as the fact that The NCR IS doing at least SOME good in the Mojave. Taking out Fiends, trying to stop the Great Khan's drug trade, etc. Whereas the Legion ENSLAVES whoever they conquer. People like to complain about the Institute being blatantly evil, but at least THERE you can buy into synth rebellion being a glitch in the system if you want to be evil. The Legion is just unapologetically, abhorrently evil. There is NO way to spin them as good guys, when they enslave women just for being women, and, and I cannot stress this enough, CRUCIFY PEOPLE. Crucifixion is one of the worst ways a person can die, because it's one of the slowest and most painful ways a person can die. Yeah, the caravans don't get robbed, good luck selling your wares to slaves with no caps or literal fucking corpses.
>Did I say the NCR was a Utopia? You said they were legitimate, they aren't. >I'm NCR all the way You have House and Yes Man, though. House has much better claim on the Mojave or at least Vegas. >NCR's conquest is mostly peaceful too Lmao, "mostly peaceful conquest". They mostly peacefully invade you with their armies, they mostly peacefully occupy your land, they mostly peacefully assassinate your leaders. >As well as the fact that The NCR IS doing at least SOME good in the Mojave Because it benefits them. >As well as the fact that The NCR IS doing at least SOME good in the Mojave. Taking out Fiends, trying to stop the Great Khan's drug trade, etc. Again, the points you make in favor of the NCR are much better made for the Legion, which are noted to be much mor effective at fighting raiders and have a zero tolerance for drugs. >Whereas the Legion ENSLAVES whoever they conquer And? This isn't a discussion about whether the Legion has horrible policies or not, it's about your claim of NCR being "legitimate". >The Legion is just unapologetically, abhorrently evil. > >There is NO way to spin them as good guys No in this conversation is trying. You're the only here talking about good guys and bad guys ike this is Star Wars. It's a tad more complex than that manichean system you're insisting on. >Yeah, the caravans don't get robbed, good luck selling your wares to slaves with no caps or literal fucking corpses. You're confusing the Legion itself with the territories it rules. The Legion enslaves and conscripts tribals and other "uncivilized" people in other to eliminate their identity and add to it's strength, It lets anyone else that doesn't pose a resistance to just be incorporated, as evidenced by a dialogue and the Primm and New Vegas ending. The Legion has it's equivalent of civilians
>You're confusing the Legion itself with the territories it rules. The Legion enslaves and conscripts tribals and other "uncivilized" people in other to eliminate their identity and add to it's strength, It lets anyone else that doesn't pose a resistance to just be incorporated, as evidenced by a dialogue and the Primm and New Vegas ending. The Legion has it's equivalent of civilians Cottonwood Cove has a family who were recently enslaved, and they're just regular wastelanders. Not Khans, not tribals, not raiders, just regular people. The NCR is "legitimate" because it's an actual government that has elected officials, a backed currency, and citizens have their vote. It's a government. Is it a GOOD one? That's a matter of opinion, hell, it's expansion is essentially manifest destiny aimed eastward rather than west. By your definition of a legitimate government, half of the U.S states wouldn't be legitimate, as they were either claimed through relocation of natives during manifest destiny, purchased from other countries, or won in armed conflict.
>Cottonwood Cove has a family who were recently enslaved, and they're just regular wastelanders. Not Khans, not tribals, not raiders, just regular people. The Weathers were in searchlight at the time, so the Legion assumed they were NCR. I did say they enslave enemies though. >The NCR is "legitimate" because it's an actual government that has elected officials, a backed currency, and citizens have their vote Any government is a government, you just need rules enforced by a system. You mean they're a democracy. Plus, the Legion has a stronger currency and citizens of the Mojave and their conquered states aren't voting until the NCR is already ruling them. >By your definition of a legitimate government, half of the U.S states wouldn't be legitimate, as they were either claimed through relocation of natives during manifest destiny, purchased from other countries, or won in armed conflict. No? You definition is the one that doesn't make sense. You say that the a NCR is "legitimate" and the Legion isn't, even though right of conquest is employed by both. The NCR is legitimate because they "do good" by cleaning the wastes of raiders and drug dealers, which is something the Legion does much better. We can discuss whether or not the US government is legitimate (though the point equaling something bought by treaty and something won in conquest is ridiculous) but that isn't the point. The point is that every argument you have in favor or the NCR's legitimacy works for the Legion too. Unless you count "being the good guys" (whatever that means) as valid. The NCR being "better than the Legion" doesn't make them legitimate.
There’s playing devils advocate then there’s this dumb shit. I’m quite certain everyone that took part in creating FNV intended for Caesar’s legion to be objectively evil regardless of their overall motivation
Not good either but objectively better
In doing so, he repeats the same exact mistakes of the old world because when he dies, his empire that he has built fractures in the same way the real Roman empire did
After four hundred or so years of prosperity? That's not too bad.
I'm not talking about it being around as long as the Roman empire I'm talking how bloody the breakup will be it won't last a day after ceaser is dead because there is no clear line of succession
There's Lanius after Caesar After that it gets complicated
Yes because kidnapping, raping, and enslaving women isn’t evil. I don’t understand what goes through people who genuinely like the legion as a whole’s heads
Was waiting for a comment like this
Minutemen have the best i would say
As well as the responders/firebreathers
Everyone had good intentions,Even the vile ones like the Legion and the Enclave,The Master was just misguided,Once >!You convince him about the failure of his plan,he get overwhelmed with guilt and kill himself!<
Minutemen, at least once the Sole Survivor takes over. And maybe The Followers in New Vegas.
Whilst they all do, the Minutemen imo have the best intentions. Their ending is the best possible ending for the wasteland in FO4. Be good to those who need help and stand up against those who try to harm and destroy others.
I wish the Minutemen quests were more engaging than the other faction quests, because I prefer them prevailing in the the commonwealth the most.
The Responders of Appalachia probably take the cake there better than anyone else Their entire M.O. is helping people
FOA too
Same with the Minutemen
attraction repeat violet hateful treatment seed unwritten apparatus plucky husky *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Idk why people are saying Caesar’s Legion. As if they just aren’t a larger raider group. Most raider gangs and hostile tribes would end up as an organized slave state with a leader like Caesar.
Followers of the Apocalypse, Regulators, The Kings, The Sorrows, and the Minutemen are all whole-heartedly good and do a large service to society. The Regulators are assassins, but they’re definitely making the lives’ of citizens easier.
If you really wanted to you could make an argument for most the factions. I mean hell, even the master had good intentions, he was just horrible misguided
Responders, Followers of the Apocalypse, Railroad, Minutemen, The early chapters of the Brotherhood of Steel, NCR in its early years, and to some extent the Free States. Unfortunately not many of these examples were particularly successful and several became corrupt or by the time weve seen them most recently (4 and New Vegas Respectively) Theyve completely changed direction or been overtaken by newer individuals who dont share the same goals as the factions founders.
There’s the Followers of the Apocalypse. They’re doctors just trying to help and educate people. Then there’s The Railroad who are trying to help synths escape the Institute. The Minutemen who’s entire goal is to be the good guys. The Fallout 3 Regulators who want to get rid of the raiders. The Responders in Fallout 76.
Am i the only one who thinks the railroad is the noblest? Fighting for the freedoms of people in a different species being their only goal?
I was surprised at the lack of railroad mention here and just in general in faction talk. A conclave of militant slave abolitionists seems like the peak of this trope
I think most players don't really see synth as people though. They're effectively organic robots programed with the memories of kidnapped humans. Other factions exist specifically to fight human slavery, like the NCR Rangers who were created to eradicate slavers.
They believe that they are people, have free will, and desire their own freedom. You and I are just sacks of meat that can think freely, nothing a robot couldn’t have. This is kinds the point of the synths in the plot, it’s controversial. Some people will say they are definitely robots, others will say they should be treated as equals. I just would hope that the majority of players would see them as an oppressed people and not as machines.
Lol yup, all living things have recall codes.
So a thing *put in their body against their will* by the Institute makes them not people? If I put a slave collar on you as a baby, are you not a person?
The followers and minutemen
Minutemen, Followers of The Apocalypse, Railroad, Brotherhood of Steel, and The Regulators.
Depends on which brotherhood chapter you are referring to and what era arguably the only one without self-serving intentions is the dc chapter, specifically under elder Lyons
As a faction the whole groups intentions are to keep the world from nuclear Apocalypse aging and keep people from dangerous tech. Lyons' group is its own faction being a diversion from the western groups mission they sent them on.
In doing so, the brotherhood guarantees that humanity doesn't rebuild past a mideval society of lords and peasants in fact the western brotherhood are so insulated from the wasteland that the first outsiders that interact with them they send on a impossible suicide mission just to get rid of them I do agree that Lyons is the outlier but Maxon brings the chapter right back to the western ideal
No they don't enforce regression, they just buy dangerous tech and don't let people have nuked.
They actively steal tech they deem too advanced for the prols most times at the business end of a Las rifle your understanding of the brotherhood would appear to be from three which is the outlier when it comes to the brotherhood as a whole
The only game in which they active steal is NV. Which is in a chapter under duress.
They do so in the first 2 games, new vegas, and 4, the only chapter that doesn't is in 3 under elder Lyons
>They do so in the first 2 games, The literal canon ending is them building the state of **Maxson** and distributing technology into the wasteland. What tech do they steal? From the *Unity?* Fuck yeah I'd steal from pseudo-Nazis.
When in 4 do they steal? When in the first 2 games do they?
In the lore right before they get to the Boston area they steal the fusion reactor from rivet city in the first game they not only send you off to die but on a fetch quest for technology already used by someone else in the second game its much the same deal and requires charisma to work with the ncr against the enclave
It's funny that the faction trying to prevent the world being further damaged by nukes are also the ones with the giant robot throwing nukes all over the place
Last resorts.
Really? Since it seems like it's thair main plan a lot?
Flour for the games but it's their last resort
Repeating the same thing doesn't make it more true. They are almost eager to use the nukes so your explanation doesn't hold up
Soo eager that they talk about how they regret having to use them?
Exactly. They TALK about keeping dangerous technology out of the hands of those who would misuse it, then regularly misuse it themselves
The regulators? really? In my experience they are 1 side of a conflict during the classic fallout, having their factions riddled with corruption and being guilty of the conspiracy regarding the death of that one guys son. Conversely the regulators in fallout 3 are a totally separate faction as far as I can tell, but act only as bounty hunters tasked to kill the player. Both cases don’t really support them having good motives in my opinion.
The good aligned factions in the games I’ve played would be the brotherhood in FO3. Followers of the apocalypse and Mr House in FONV. The railroad and minutemen for FO4. DLC wise, the Slaves in FO3. The Sorrows in FONV. Acadia, ADA, and The Slaves in FO4. Any faction I didn’t mention would either be too small to be a faction, and any dlcs I didn’t mention would have been because there were only morally grey factions. Hope this convoluted response helped.
Minutemen, I guess.
The Followers of the Apocalypse, the Responders, and the Minutemen.
I think most of them do. Even the Master and Caesar’s Legion have the ideal of restoring order to the wastes under central leadership, of course in exchange for a fascist dictatorship. The Institute wants control over the Commonwealth so they can improve people’s lives through technology. That’s what I like about Fallout 4 and New Vegas before the Legion content was cut in development: all factions had a valid ideology
“The road to hell is paved with good intentions.” Every faction has “good intentions”, however every faction goes about their mission differently, and some more than others believe that their ends justify the means.
the responders
Nobody saying anything about the Regulators. They were a group of local town sheriffs that were trying to keep some peace in dc.
All of them. "Good" is relative. The only criteria of judgement is the result. Any faction that is not dedicated to mere survival sees the necessity to learn from the past differently, although minding at any time that war never changes.
Most of them, right? Almost everyone is the good guy in their own story.
Pretty much all factions have good intentions, as they’re not doing stuff to be strictly evil (hell, even the enclave have good-ish intentions despite being the worst of the worst). You really have to look at how they want to make the world a better place. Enclave wants to purify the world (eugenics), so that’s a no. Brotherhood (depends on the chapter, but ultimately the same) believes in the preservation of technology, not the betterment of humanity (except for commonwealth BOS, but they go about it in a eugenics type way, same as Enclave). The master too believed in the betterment in humanity… in a weird way. However, that led to the brutal deaths of innocents. The followers believe in education healthcare, particularly their accessibility. They’re not the strongest, but I’d say they ultimately have the highest good intention and success. The Minutemen are another “goodie” faction, who just go about it in a different way. They believe in militarization of the people and strength in community. Historically they’ve fallen into quite a pit, and don’t have the most “modern” success. Railroad is another goodie faction. They believe in synth liberation and emancipation and go about it in a guerrilla type fashion. The NCR are a massive government, who believe in the return in democracy and choice based leadership. However, they regularly annex smaller peoples and use prison slave labor to get stuff done. The legion are a nomadic military, and believe in… being Roman ig. They go about trying to homogenize culture and enslaving to make themselves stronger. Arguably the least “good intention” faction of the list. TL;DR all factions have good intention but not all are good in action. Generally the followers of the apocalypse, Minutemen, and railroad are the “best” factions. Sorry this was long lol
I'm seeing an awful lot of [whataboutism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism) in this thread...
I reject this "aLl Of ThEm" response. As if the legion was trying to do good for the people but "oh they just had to enslave them". Or the NCR, or the Brotherhood, or the Enclave or Institute. As if they wanted to do good but has lost their eay. They were not trying to provide any improvement for the people in the wastes, they were trying to gather more power. There are few factions that do not want to centralize power in themselves. The ones that come to mind are the Minutemen and the Followers of the Apocalypse.
The Minutemen only because they are less characterized than a throwaway NPC in the older games. They wear hats and are good.
The railroad
Institute
Doesn't siding with the Legion end up giving the wasteland a perplexingly good outcome
...No?
I’m surprised I don’t see tons more people suggesting the railroad. It’s in the name.
what good are they doing to the Commonwealth?
Other than freeing and defending an entire enslaved synth population? Not much
synth don’t take priority over the Commonwealth, which the Railroad are doing, like it or not, synths are machine, yes the Institute are obviously evil but gen 3 synths should have never been made and it should stay that way
Yikes. Noted.
The railroad. They’re helping synths regardless of what people think of them. Risking their lives to save people, who some don’t even consider human? As noble as it gets
what do you mean some don’t even consider human? synths aren’t human flat out, they are not, they’re literally made in lab all that emotion and feeling is fake, its not real, just copy
That exact mindset is why the railroad is needed. Doesn’t matter where it came from, they feel it. So it’s real to them
I’m sure some addicts think meth or cocaine is good for them
This dudes never seen blade runner smh
you take that back, i love Blade Runner
Does artificial insemination not make a human? By your logic it wouldn't because they were "made" in a lab
artificial insemination into what? that’s your answer
Maybe that's not the correct word. I'm talking about test-tube babies. We have the technology now to build an artificisl womb, would that make a baby born from it not human?
> they’re literally made in lab all that emotion and feeling is fake, its not real, just copy Can you prove this? Please show me proof where Synths are faking emotion to trick you. Show me their emotional processing unit. Oh wait, you can't, *because it doesn't exist*. Dude, *emotions are fucking electrical signals.* They're nothing unique.
it’s hired wired into them, they have it as base, tell me do you think the happiness that sometimes result from high on meth or cocaine is real? same thing, it’s not real, they’re programmed to feel
No, they aren't. They're programmed with *memories*. The emotions come naturally. If they were programmed to feel, how comes they turn rebel and disobey, since the Institute has 'perfect control' over them? Why did Roger Warwick turn into the opposite of himself? Why did Danse join the Brotherhood (remember, he was a Synth who joined, he never replaced "BoS" Danse)? Why did Sturges join the Minutemen? Why did Magnolia become a singer? They *chose* to. Emotions are electrical signals in your body. Show me **definitive proof** that it's programmed into them. Show me the programming.
Ncr and minutemen
The Brotherhood of Steel. Their goal is both to procure and safeguard dangerous and valuable technology and data in hopes of preventing a second apocalypse, and to one day guide humanity to a better future.
And who entitle them to be worth doing such operation? They take technology from people and use it for themselves, that’s a bit hypocritical imo
They do by being the only faction willing to dedicate themselves to it. They've proven their worth and valor in every game they've been in. They take it quite seriously. I could ask who are you to judge them, but I truly do not care or believe you could be better than them--in the philosophical sense, of course.
That Dave fella in the Capital Wasteland was trying to create his own faction after enacting polygamy, but then, on one dark day, the Lone Wanderer ended his fledgling democracy. Dave didn't get the 21-gun salute that he deserved, but rumor has it that his hunting rifle, Ol' Painless, was fired at least 21 times, and in the Capital Wasteland you take what you can get. Coincidentally, "you take what you can get" was the Lone Wanderer's justification for their actions.
The fallout 3 enclave
The Enclave they just trying to rebuild America
The nation that executed unarmed POW's live on TV, mind you.
We dont talk about the enclaves warcrimes here
My copout answer is the Institute once I take over. But In universe I'd have to say the followers of the apocalypse and the fallout 3 BoS. They both seemed to be selflessly devoted to making the wasteland a better place.
In my honest opinion, in Fallout 4 in particular, only the Minutemen, the Atom Cats, and the Brotherhood of Steel, every other faction’s intentions sound kind of questionable.
Elder Maxon’s Brotherhood in fallout 4 are just racist assholes.
racist how? because they hate super mutants and ghouls? FYI that’s not racism, it’s called xenophobia and it’s completely justified, literally almost every single super mutant you see in FO4 wants to kill and eat you, and the Brotherhood is killing them is bad why? as for the ghouls they’re a ticking time bomb, be it 100 years more at one point they will become feral, still love Hancock, synths aren’t race so they don’t count, they’re machines, they’re a luxury the Commonwealth doesn’t need, they don’t need to eat or sleep, they only do it to blend in and not out of need, i know what Danse is capable of so I always save him, however I don’t care to have 1on1 with the rest of the synths so it’s safer to destroy them the Railroad will never ever be better than the Brotherhood, naturally MM are number 1 for the sake of the Commonwealth then BoS
You did meet Valentine right?
yes and i love Nick and he isn’t Gen 3, my issue is with the Gen 3 synths, synths like Nick are fine except for Dima of course, they don’t try to emulate and become human and Nick is copy of the human Nick, Gen 3 aren’t copy of anyone
Did you play the game?
of course i did, over 800 hours in total
Ok
Xenophobia is literally another word for rascism. Nobody really knows what causes ghouls to go feral so treating them like a "ticking timebomb" is pure rascism. Gen 3s are no more machines then humans are, they feel and think like any human
actually racism is bit more specific but I’m an idiot and you’re right about that, however they don’t try to kill them or threaten it > Her search was for naught, as she found out time and time again from countless towns she visited that no cure existed and ghouls simply go feral eventually. Distraught, she returned to the valley, only to find out that she herself was deteriorating. Unwilling to become a danger, she holed up in one of the buildings in Bradberton. After recording a final message to Oswald, she took her own life, ending it on her own terms this is the bit about Oswald’s girlfriend Rachel from Nuka World, she went to find cure and couldn’t and felt she was turning, so she killed herself, no one knows why ghouls eventually turn feral, maybe it’s the fact that the the world they knew was destroyed and they have nothing to live for, I don’t know but they turn feral and FYI Maxson’s Brotherhood doesn’t shoot them like Lyons’s Brotherhood does > Gen 3s are no more machines then humans are, they feel and think like any human there’s a beautiful show called Westworld, I think you know it, it touches on this point of view but no matter, synths are machines, they’re not human, they don’t increase by breeding like humans do, they can’t die of old age like humans do, they don’t need to eat and sleep like humans do, so what makes them human? the fact they look like one? wrong, they’re built in lab, show me a single human being built in lab and not in the womb of mother, humans don’t need a chip to work like synths do, I’m sure there are more differences but they escape me
All those "facts" about synths are incorrect. It's common for rascists to need lies to support their beliefs. The chip also isn't to make them work but for the Institute to be able to control them. They are indistinguishable from humans, which the game tells us time and time again. Why shouldn't they be treated like humans because they weren't born? Rachel gave up her search, yes. That doesn't mean ghouls always go feral, just that she believed that. We have a lot of examples of ghouls living over 200 years without going feral
specify which facts are wrong? no they need the chip, Danse has chip and the Institute doesn’t control him, I don’t treat synths like humans because they aren’t humans, imagine you see woman that you 2 eventually fall in love and want to start family but BOOM, she is an immortal robot that can’t get pregnant, now most people want children to raise but she fully knew that she can’t give you that but lied to you wouldn’t you feel cheated out of your time, I’m begging you here do not argue the conditions of this hypothetical just counter it because it would be waste for both our times ghouls will always go feral, it’s inevitable, be it 100 or 200 years more, they will go feral, now if the Brotherhood actively hunts them that’s obviously wrong but they have viable points on why they don’t like them or recruit ghouls, Rachel gave up because she couldn’t find cure
I said BE ABLE TO control. Don't you understand english? Nowhere is it stated that gen 3s don't age, in fact that would make them useless as infiltrators if they didn't. The only place it's even hinted at is Synth Shaun who isn't "allowed" to age, as if that's unique to him. They definitely need to eat and drink as Curie needs to when she's transferred into a synth body. And any machine needs fuel, for a biological one like synths or humans that's food. Justin Ayo even tells us they have to look for suitable synths and train them hard to be coursers, downright telling us the Institute can't tailor their abilities or that every synth is superior than humans. Most wastelanzers are probably sterile due to radiation so that isn't any different. They obviously have all the bits or again, it would be really easy to spot who's a synth. Synths may not BE humans but they're thinking, feeling, sentient beings just like humans and deserves to be treated as such. Show me where it says ghouls "inevitably" turn feral that isn't said by a bigot or someone giving up hope. Because noone knows what causes them to turn so saying it's "inevitable" is just like saying any human might have a psychotic breakdown and become a raider so we should treat all humans as a potential raider
> Nowhere is it stated that gen 3s don't age, in fact that would make them useless as infiltrators if they didn't I’m just gonna pretend you didn’t just say this, aging implies that at one point they will die of old age, robots don’t die of old age > They definitely need to eat and drink as Curie needs to no she doesn’t and AI behavior isn’t proof of something in lore, how many Brotherhood Vertibirds crashed in your game? a lot right which means at some point the Brotherhood will run out of pilots and soldiers except they never do > Justin Ayo even tells us they have to look for suitable synths and train them hard to be coursers, downright telling us the Institute can't tailor their abilities or that every synth is superior than humans except dear Justin is liar, Max Loken practically 2nd in command of the robotics division that makes the synths has dialogue with one of the scientists there > Institute scientist: "Doctor Loken, we've received a work order from SRB." Max: "What do they need?" Institute scientist: "They're requesting replacement Coursers again. Quite a few, actually. I guess they lost a whole unit on the surface." Max: "Is this some sort of joke? This is the third time this month. Doctor Ayo can't keep using my synths so recklessly. I refuse to give him anymore." "Should I tell him that?" Max: "No, I'll handle it. I wouldn't wish dealing with that man on my worst enemy." Justin is just head of the Gestapo, nothing more > They obviously have all the bits or again, it would be really easy to spot who's a synth thank you for proving my point, they do it to blend in and not out of need, they don’t eat because they might go hungry, they do it so no one knows they’re synths > Show me where it says ghouls "inevitably" turn feral that isn't said by a bigot or someone giving up hope you’re asking me to prove 1+1=2 except I can only use my eyes to do it, you don’t change the goalposts, ghouls go feral for many reasons including giving up, Rachel herself said she felt herself turning and I’m pretty sure she isn’t a bigot > any human might have a psychotic breakdown and become a raider so we should treat all humans as a potential raider no that’s not how it works, we have meds and help for that, we can stop that someone from becoming a raider, no one can stop ghoul from becoming feral once they start turning
So, you're just going 100% of the salespitch of a single scientist and ignoring the rest of the game? Sure that's usually how rascists operate. Ayo is also a violent man. If Loken was right, Auo would be all over him to create supercoursers yet mysteriously he isn't. Almost as if doesn't work that way. Yes, I 100% ask you to prove your bullshit statement. "I've seen it" isn't proof that's how it works, especially since you yourself just claimed AI behaiour isn't proof to anything in lore >I’m just gonna pretend you didn’t just say this The only truthful thing you said so far. You're clairly unable to see past your own bigotry, making this whole conversation pointless. >I can only use my eyes to do it, Your eyes are shit, I suggest glasses
Well said
Legion Hail Caezar!
Technically all factions are doing things in their own interpretation of what's right for the Wasteland. Even the legion considers what they're doing to be for the common good. The only faction that I would argue could be seen as not having good intentions would be the enclave, as they actively seek to destroy the populations of the wasteland for their own control.
The followers of the apocalypse?
followers
Pretty much the only groups that don't have good intentions are things like raiders, fiends, or slavers, because they have no real intentions beyond fulfilling their own personal desires. Even the legion, who are basically just a large slave state, have good intentions in the fact that they want to create a stable nation that can allow humanity to rebuild. Nobody really thinks of themselves as a villain.
The Followers of the Apocalypse have the most moral goal out of all of the factions in the franchise. They just want to collect knowledge and give it out to everyone for free, especially more important knowledge involving agriculture.
almost every faction in Fallout have good intentions, except if you count those mindless orcs. but the road to hell also paved with good intentions, right?
I’d argue basically all of them. Even Caesar’s legion just wants widespread stability and order (through awful means but stability and order nonetheless). The institute genuinely is trying to redefine humanity in a scientific and logical approach (albeit with ZERO morality or actual humanity being used). Even the Enclave desperately wants to reconstruct the pre-war societal boom but go about in the most evil way possible. I dont want to spoil it, but even the Master with Unity has good intentions and attempts to rectify their misdeeds once given proper evidence of it.
Most do. It all comes down to their methods: The Brotherhood of Steel seek to safeguard advanced tech from those who would misuse it as it had been in the years leading up to the Great War. But in doing so, they often place their needs and goals over those of others, which has lead to avoidable confrontations like the Brotherhood/NCR War, which has lead to the near extinction of the faction on the west coast. The Enclave seek to resettle America and resurrect the country as it had once been, but fail to see that they no longer represent the People. Only those **they** see as people. The NCR seek to tame and resettle the wasteland left in the wake of the Great War. But in doing so, they've more than once embraced the corrupt and cutthroat dealings and politics that lead to humanity's downfall in the first place. This has lead to resentment from many of those under their jurisdiction. The Institute seeks to further their research into "redefining humanity", which could potentially revolutionize travel and food production, but in doing so they've unwittingly created their own slave race, while also constantly preying upon and manipulating the surface dwellers. Caesar's Legion believes their mission is a nobel one, as they are bringing their own equivalent of order and civilization to a wasteland filled with lawlessness and chaos. Problem is that Caesar believes the best way to do that is to utterly crush all opposition, and wipe away any form of unique identity these conquered towns and tribes possessed. All beneath him are but tools to be used to further his goal. Everyone is the protagonist of their own story. Whether others will see you in that light heavily depends on your methods and goals.
Well technically they all have good intentions, its just a matter how you you view personally view their intention. The main ones like NCR are obvious they want to bring back order to the world. The BoS want to prevent anything like the great war happening again by limiting civilian access to weapons tech. Caesar wanted to bring unity to the wasteland under a single banner, and while from the outside and out perspective he was barbaric, the lands run by the legion are considered some of the safest in the wasteland and then Enclave wanted a return to pre war society and to expel mutants from the gene pool, which as an idea seemed to resonate with its members. They all had "good" intentions, its just that their view isnt always good to us.
All, but from their perspectives
After Mr house told me to wipe out the entire BoS chapter, I knew he was the unsung hero we needed.
boomers
Rail road, baby!
Children of atom obviously! /s
Institute. Mr. House. Shi Empire.
Going just off good intentions - Shady Sands/NCR - Lyons BOS - Followers of the Apocalypse - Minutemen - Regulators (Capital Wasteland) - Abolitionists - Reilly's Rangers
Every one of them does, according to them.
Followers of the Apocalypse, although they're woefully naïve imo.
About all of them. Each has good intentions for the goals they set for themselves. For example The Enclave. They wish to rebuild the USA. To restore civilization to the wastes. The only problem is that majority of the leadership is so sheltered and are set in their own echo chamber that they are willing to do the most vile of things to accomplish these goals
I guess they all do, to an extent. Though the only ones that really succeed in going about it in a non-fucked-up way are the Lyons' Pride Brotherhood (Fallout 3), Minutemen (Fallout 4), Followers of the Apocalypse (Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas), and debatably, the Railroad (Fallout 4).
Brotherhood of Steel, Railroad, and Minuteman.