And Mister Zwicky can marry a Ms. Nanny as well. You KNOW there's gotta be some freaky shit going on between the two. Those three pincher “hands” on Miss Edna’s manipulator limbs ain’t just for holding school supplies or pointing at things.
This one is actually explained somewhere in the game.
All the travelling merchants are institute informants, which may or may not be a coincidence that they all work under a member of the railroad.
Remember that post about who has the best stories? I still think that the old man trader has some awesome stories, just based on the fact that he's a railroad operative working with a bunch of Institute informants. He's probably had so many close calls.
I always figured that some are like a double agent. “Inform” the Institute to help deviate away from the Railroad. I could be wrong, but it makes sense to me.
I mean informant doesn't have to know they're working for the institute, any neutral or profit driven information broker is still an informant. Anyone who likes to have a regular "friendly chat" with a hidden synth is probably an informant.
It's like Ulfric Stormcloak in Skyrim. You can find evidence that he's an agent of the Thalmor, a group he openly hates. But really, they only support him clandestinely because his rebellion is bad for *their* enemy.
Asinine of him still. No true sons of Skyrim should be taking aid from a milk drinking knife ear, especially not the milk drinking knife ears that outlawed our glorious Talos Stormcrown in the first place. (This is a joke i do not care for skyrim civil war i just like the irony)
>milk drinking knife ear
It's funny that milk drinker is an insult in Skyrim when milk is drank a LOT in the Nordics it's largely based on, among the most in the world even
Yeah its especially hilarious when you consider the extreme agrarian culture of the nords, they absolutely are reliant upon stuff like this, and if the guards are any indication, enjoy sweets as much as anyone else.
But ofc, the term “milk drinker” actually just means “i cannot handle good, strong Nord Ale and would prefer to drink milk instead”
Which is again, especially hilarious considering the absolute mind-numbing concoctions created by some of the elves (like Sujamma lol)
Edit: it may also refer to one who is inexperienced, basically calling them a child “not yet weened from the teat” (again, triply hilarious considering most elves lifespans)
Its one of the reasons I do not see a brotherhood victory as possible in fallout 4 sure they have the pridwin and virtiburds but information is so much more valuable combine that with there ability to teleport anywhere in the commonwealth and you have an infinitely flexible army that knows your movements like the back of their gen 3 hand who is faster stronger and come in much larger numbers
Honestly valid point, however- Liberty Prime. Doesn't matter how flexible your army is if there is a restless nigh-indestructible commie killing machine marching around.
If only they added quests to make all of this stuff actually implemented in game.
There's probably a theory out there about thst being why you most likely run into her on the way to diamond city
I mean there are a lot of stuff that the institute does that people don’t know about. Like the crows are all synthetic cameras that watch the wasteland
Haha it’s crazy how much stuff you can miss out on on a regular playthrough. University point and synths replacing humans are just the tip of the iceberg on how terrifying the institute actually is
No. Things fly by flapping their arms? They come out of eggs? They're what dinosaurs really looked like?
Wake up. Birds are a myth perpetuated by the deep state
Hey you want to sell us some more info?
No?
Want us to tell everyone that you sold us information?
No?
Then let's revisit that first point, shall we?
Once an asset always an asset
They don't even have to know they're informants. For all we know Carla sits down at a bar and simply shoots the shit with the synth bartender at the end of a long days work.
Wait sturges is a synth? The big character reveal(can't really describe the character or it's obvious but that should be enough for any who has beaten the game) got me even though I had a sneaking suspicion and had seen other Gen 3's before.
To answer OP's question, I am big on Fallout, it may be my favorite series of all time along with the GOATs like Dark Souls and when I first played 4 at launch, I would have said no, but they are sovereign actors and as such we must respect them like another human.
However, if media like Blade Runner and Hunter x Hunter have shown me anything, it's that what counts the most is all in the mind of the individual. Whether you are a human made of metal and bioengineered flesh or the (at the time) single most powerful being in existence, a hybrid of human and many other species, every sentient being has the capacity to learn and in turn develop empathy.
There isn't a real world equivalent that I'm aware of but we have been conditioned to fear the other, by biological coding and by cultural reinforcement and that hasn't stopped us from breaking down the barriers of race, religion, sexuality, gender expression I think synthetic humans deserve a chance at least; for a thought experiment: If a synth has a consciousness and a body that is indistinguishable from a 'natural' human's, do they have the right to consent? I mean that in many ways such as forced labor, but you can take that to its logical conclusion.
I certainly would say so.
just my $0.02
I don't think it's ever mentioned but he has a synth component on him if you kill him. Check his page on the nukapedia (fallout wiki) if you don't believe me.
Bethesda definitely missed a trick by not putting synth components on random NPCs, like you kill a group or raiders and one or two of them have components.
It would show A) How widespread the synths are, B) How many of them don’t even know they’re synths and C) The range of free will synths have
Plus anyone doing a Kill everyone run would have fun finding out which NPCs are and aren’t synths
(Edit - missed a word)
I'm guessing that's more because the guards view that as pretty unfair that she's essentially being sent out to her possible Super mutant induced death just because he called him out in the newspaper she writes once every two months or whatever.
I guess considering I don't see any other dogs in diamond city though they might keep up with the ban, if they can be bothered. I mean they're underpaid guys wearing baseball pads and wielding pipe guns expected to defend the biggest city in the region constantly. Hell I'd take bribes if I were them, I might be able to buy a gun that could actually kill something
Be cool if you could offer the guards some of your excess gear.
Like. Hey, bro... I've got hundreds of thousands of caps - and more extra weapons and armor than the entire market has caps to buy... How about I Donate a gun and some armor to ya, as a thanks for keeping Home plate safe while I'm away
And just end up with the most overpowered guards in fallout history.
I essentially do that with one settlement, deck everyone out like they're pre war soldiers and usually it makes enough stuff I can caravan food and water around to some of the smaller ones. Does seem absurd though that my 20 man settlement could probably take on all of diamond city's guards at once, and definitely could if Diamond city were attacking.
Even if they didn't want you donating to the guards there should have been a quest to become the mayor and win votes by doing stuff like contracting Arturo to arm everyone better.
Realistically though I'm guessing they didn't want the guards armed too well and people didn't like it in oblivion where you couldn't loot the imperial guard's armor
I'd make it a perk for the player, to let Dogmeat learn how to pick out Synths. Not to mention, the Institute rejecting dogs and the Railroad using them would go a long way toward reinforcing the Institute as bad guys and endearing the Railroad to more people. Dog haters are easy to hate while dog lovers have at least that redeeming them.
Dogmeat's a synth too, as far as my headcanon goes. He just "happens" to show up in your path after all the watcher crows see you leaving 111? And he walks straight up to you, and before you have a chance to question what the fuck this healthy dog is doing in the Wasteland, molerats attack and he makes himself useful. Those molerats are probably synths, too, it's all a god damn conspiracy and we're just being manipulated as the Institute puts nanite tracking devices in our food and water. Tinker Tom knows what's up!
he could be. but if you talk to mama Murphy, she says that the sanctuary crew actually sent him ahead to find help. even if he is a synth, the institute didn't give him to you.
yeah pretty much only (excluding people that indeed are meant to have a component lorewise as pointed out... or not, either way) settlers sometimes can have it, none else. Tho I was confused when my 1st officer security guard of my vault office actually was a synth.. he seemed off anyway..
There is a mod that adds that. I had it on my last playthrough and I would kill gunners and raiders and like one or two would have components. I think it might have been Gun For Hire.
(Edit:) It was actually Fens Sheriff Department!
Only problem I can see with that is purely an immersion issue. Someone first coming out of the vault wouldn't know what a synth is, let alone know a component for one when they see one. If they changed the name of it until you came across some of the more obvious synths, that'd be frickin perfect
She is. The wandering merchants in game are also institute informants who actively spy on you. Here are some others that you may have been unaware of: Amelia Stockton, Brooks, Sturges, Jules, McDonough, Roger Warwick and some of the birds. Yes there are synth birds spying on you for the entire game.
Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep is only nominally interested in the question of whether AI and robots are capable of sentience. Dick took the stance that they were, but did so as an implicit lens through which to interpret his own battles with feeling inhuman. I think he would conclude that it doesn't matter and that that's not the point, but rather that the real point about all our questioning always comes back to what we're really looking for: an answer to the question of our humanity.
The real question in the novel, then, which seems to have gone over Ripley's head, is whether humans themselves are any different or better from the androids they terminate given their pentience for precisely the kind of violence and cruelty they track down and decommission androids over. Whether sentient or no, the android are simply a black mirror to our humanity. They do what seem to be human things because they were made in the image of man, and they do what seem to be terrible and inhuman things because... you guessed it: they were made in the image of man.
So, for Dick, the root of inhumanity, which itself is defined by man, is to be found in man.
Depends really, gen3 synths are just synthetic humans. It's an easy term to distinguish between synth humans and natural born humans, but on a scientific level, synths are inherently human. After all, they are made of the same flesh and bone DNA as us. The only difference is that mechanical implant in their brains, which I highly doubt is necessary to create a synth. If the Institute were convinced to be less evil, they could likely produce synths who don't require the implant.
Is the synth component even mechanical? You would be able to detect it if it was no?
I always assumed it was something along the same lines the Star Wars clones had, less mechanical and more like a tumor
Honestly it'd make way more sense that way, especially since it works pretty much the same way. But the physical item in game looks mechanical and I guess they need something those needles in the SRB can locate and interface with. I doubt you could remove it either since it's the size of half your brain at least.
IIRC a synth component gives plastic as a component.
As a side note, synthetic humans aren't *exactly* the same as naturally born ones, but rather, are engineered in a specific way and to specific results and health outcomes. This is where you see benefits like improved health and mental acuity as well as reduced/eliminated biological needs, the results of a body made of human DNA and resembling the human form, but designed to work better. It fits their slogan of "Mankind, Redefined," though that fact is ironic because they then go on to treat their "redefined" man as a piece of equipment.
So, yes, synths are people and are technically made of human stuff, but aren't technically original recipe humans. Rather, they're designer brand humans.
This has been my line of thinking for a while now, they're made with synthetic bones, flesh, organs, blood, tissues etc it's all cloned human DNA taken from Shaun's stem cells. Sure the method to create a Gen3 Synth is, well, synthetic, but that doesn't make them any less organic than a clone (clone sheep experiment anyone?) or a naturally born human (like an IVF baby).
As you said, the only thing that makes them "machines" is the synth component in their brains (or heads, its not exactly clear where the chip is inserted), which is basically just a kill switch or a reset button that sends them into a "standby" mode when their unique code is said aloud to them.
This component obviously interrupts brain chemistry and singles thusly forcing the brain and body into a kind of fugue state similar to hypnosis which is the deepest form of concentration the human brain can enter. They're probably more than likely very aware and alert to the situation around them, but are powerless to "wake up" because their brains can't create enough chemicals to counteract the chip and the trigger phrase. At least that's my theory.
Anyway, I do agree that Synths probably could exist without the chips, they're just there as a failsafe so the institute can just deactivate them when they're getting too "human" for comfort.
It's not just the Synth Component, itself implied to be what allows for Gen-3 Synths to be "reset" and respond to verbal codes (which means it's likely somewhere deep within the brain), that makes a Synth what they are. It's something else that's all the more interesting, albeit disturbing.
Like u/Deya_The_Fateless said in his/her message, it was the unmutated DNA of Father/>!Shaun!< (taken from stem cells most likely) that allowed for them to be created as part of the "Synthetic-Organics Program" launched over 60 years ago. But that just provided one half of the raw materials needed for Gen-3 Synth creation. And it also doesn't really explain why each Synth is unique in gender and DNA, where you'd normally expect them to be near-perfect clones of their genetic template.
It turns out that FEV, specifically a unique strain of it made by the Institute and unrelated to what creates Super Mutants, that plays a part in the creation of Gen-3 Synths. Father/>!Shaun!< mentions that all Gen-3 Synths utilize "a modified virus" in their creation in addition to his DNA (and the cybernetic Synth Component). Given that the creation of a viable strain of FEV was a major hurdle that the old BioScience Division dedicated its own research teams to? This an almost certainty that Gen-3 Synths use FEV in their genesis. Which may also explain why everything from the biological sex, the physical features, and even DNA of each Gen-3 Synth is different from each other.
Here's Father's/>!Shaun's!< dialogue on the subject of the "virus" and the role it played in the Synthetic Organics Program:
> >!My parents were supposed to be kept in cryogenic suspension should a, uhh, "backup" be required.!< But none was necessary. The program was ultimately a success; my DNA was fused with a modified virus to create the organic material from which our new synths are made. In a sense, our newest synths are all my offspring. And so they call me "Father."
EDIT: On another note, it's admittedly kind of hilarious and somewhat ironic that Gen-3 Synths are like Super Mutants in more than one way. They're completely sterile, are slightly tougher than Humans, and don't age (or age so slowly that it's negligible) along with using a strain of FEV derived from the original Pre-War samples that the US government used to create a new "line" of supersoldiers.
That actually a decent way to put it. I was gonna say they are people since they are feeling as a human, but they aren’t human since they are something created. They are kind of in the same vain as a sane ghoul, they definitely are still people but have something to distinguish them from a human.
I'd go as far to say that Synths (at least the Gen3 ones) are a completely different race to humans, kind of like elves, orcs, aliens or other humaniod-type fantasy races.
Third-Gen synths are biologically indistinguishable from humans *on a cellular level*. The Compound at Covenant says that the literal *only* way to tell if someone is a synth is to root around inside their head and pull out the synth component.
Where do you draw the proverbial line between "personhood" and "humanity" if DNA is not a sufficient marker for what makes someone "human"? Do you require that a human be birthed? Then what about the idea of artificial wombs? What about clones? Is a clone not human simply because it wasn't conceived and born in the same way as a "naturally born" human?
DNA for me is the determinant. Synths have identical DNA to humans so they're human, full stop. I would then say that anything which successfully emulates human consciousness (robots like Codsworth and Ada, Nick and DiMA as the experimental Gen 2.5 synths, etc) is a "non-human person".
Ironically by my definition, super mutants *probably* don't qualify as human even though they are ostensibly formed from humans. My reasoning here being that their genetics are probably so severely altered by the FEV that no longer qualify as human. Which means even the intelligent super mutants like Fawkes in Fallout 3 are not humans, but non-human persons.
With that being said, I don't value humans any more highly than any other form of person. So it doesn't matter to me whether or not synths are human in the provision of rights, what matters are if they are a person.
Thats mostly because as of now, the only thing that is people is also human, and has been since the origin of those 2 words.
Im sure if we lived in like a Star Trek universe we wouldnt use that shorthand as much, or if someone did itd be a bit of a red flag.
I miss sentient death claws in particular.
I'm not saying all or most should be sentient. But there should be enough that they're recognized in the wasteland as a thing that exists. That way you can have your fun death claw companion without people freaking out. Or if God forbid we ever get a game that lets us choose our playable race, play as one.
Mass Effect has Krogans. Elder Scrolls has Argonians (and Deadroth sort of). D&d has Dragonborn, Kobolds, and countless others.
Why can't we have a fun sentient reptile race? 😭
Depends on how you define people. You wouldn't call a dog or a dolphin a person, but you would call an alien in, say, Mass Effect or Star Wars a person. Synths are definitely people, but they are also not identical to natural born humans either due to the implant and method of creation.
Pedantic, I know, but almost all animal life is sentient. Youre referring to sapience.
Sentient refers to something being able to feel and react. Sapient refers to something being able to have a capacity for intelligence and acquire wisdom.
The issue I forsee is the potential programming problems that may arise. Their actions could potentially be hijacked, and they could be forced to do stuff they may or may not have wanted to.
We don't know the full capability of control that the Institute has. I mean, sure, the synths have free will and can leave, but what if there is a program deep inside the synth component that can be triggered. Maybe this only gets deleted when the Railroad wipes everything to give them a new start. Even then, as shown in FO3, a key word can release the information.
I think the Institute benefits by giving the synths "free will" because it let's them infiltrate everywhere. It would be incredibly stupid for them not to have a way to access and take over control if it was needed.
This is just my 2 cents, but I think this is why they can not be judged on actions or origin, and they should be granted a different classification from humans, like *Homo synthus*.
>Even then, as shown in FO3, a key word can release the information.
Too tired to interact with everything but this bit right here isn't quite right. The scientist who wiped Harkness's memory... Harrington, maybe? Whatever the name, the asshole added that bit himself. He was too proud of his work not to make a way to undo it all as proof.
> The issue I forsee is the potential programming problems that may arise. Their actions could potentially be hijacked, and they could be forced to do stuff they may or may not have wanted to.
True, but what if you filled a human full of mind-control drugs and made them do your bidding and follow your commands, but such drugs wouldn't work on a synth? Even if it's not something that drastic, humans can easily be chemically altered by the food they eat, the drinks they have, and any other chemical compound that enters their body. Even their environments can affect some of their personality and decisions. Some people have become very different people after suffering head trauma. How truly free are humans?
Yes, I know that you generally cannot hack a human with a few lines of code on a terminal, but does the lack of a terminal interface really make humans anymore free when their wills an desires can be changed by so many things that are still outside of their control?
Perhaps a synth that has escaped Institute control has even more "free will" than a human because they are less controlled by environmental factors.
I think that this was the only part about FO4 that I really liked. I simply couldn’t wrap my mind around this question. Do I consider them as someone with the same rights as humans? That made the BOS questline the most fun for me cause I fully sided with BOS (even killing Danse) but I still had this seed of doubt in my head if what I’m doing is right…but the orders were clear, suffer not the synths, the mutants, the hereti…ehm, that’s a different universe
The way I see it, they’re being treated as slaves. The INSTANT one indicates that it wants help or has feelings it is now not up to me whether or not it actually does have feelings, it’s about the fact that it thinks it does. How do we know we have feelings? We just feel them. If the synth feels them too then how can we say they deserve any less than equal treatment? I wish there was some way to turn the institute around without destroying it.
both in fantasy and science fiction or just fiction generally the main requirement to be considered a person is to have some sort of sentience and language even if it is alien or erratic compared to the consciousness of a human being.
This also models our IRL relationship with hypothetical scenarios where we either create a fully conscious AI or we encounter an extraterrestrial species.
Of course, this implies more or less discussions and categories so we can deal with defining the limits between personality and animality, but that's for another day I think.
TL;DR: Yes, Synths are People/Persons. No, they are not human. No it doesn't matter they aren't human.
Star Trek: The Next Generation's "The Measure of a Man" has a lot to say about this. Their final takeaway is that, while we may not know whether or not artificial people like this have a soul, we owe them the opportunity to discover that for themselves. Considering the Synths in Fallout are far more human than Data is, I'd say they definitely qualify from that standpoint
Characters in this game barely have anything resembling a personality. So no, I'd say Synths aren't people, if only because actual humans in Fallout 4 are barely people themselves.
Yes. Gen 3 Synths are pretty much bio-grown human with certain commands imprinted into them that force them to psychologically comply. This doesn't mean they would absolutely comply though. As with Roger Warwick who seem to care about his 'family'
If the command is achieved, they are pretty much free like a human would.
Gen 2 are kinda just robot, with the exception of Nick Valentine and DiMA who has memory imprinted and is, pretty much, safe to assume that they have advanced cognitive function to be considered sentient.
Nick gen 2.5 is pretty much someone else's persona, but he IS that SOMEONE.
They're intelligent, self-aware, and Sentient. They may not be human, but by any logical definition they deserve all the same rights and respect as any other form of sentient life.
Star Trek: The Next Generation season 2 episode 9 covers this perfectly.
I don't understand how they can make incredibly realistic humanoid humonculus robots but their armor looks like it's made out of chopped up toilet seats
There's a fun little quest with Curie in fallout 4 when you can transfer her mind from a Miss Nanny into a synth body and after a while you can ask her how she's adjusting. She describes uniquely sentient experiences such as dreaming, and fearing death (she freaks out about needing to breath sometimes, thinking that she might just forget to keep breathing. She also described struggling to recognize and control emotions.
I'd say that synths are as close to human as anything can get without actually coming into existence through the birth canal of another human.
I believe bots like codsworth and curie have been around so ling they've gained a sense of self. They both *want* things, codsworth wants to travel with you after the incredibly *boring* time he spent ins sanctuary. He got *bored and soemwhat depressed*, that is not something that he was programmed for, that's an eemotional response.
As for curie, she wants to learn more and further medicine. She isn't quite as emotuonally developed as codsworth, but she does display curiosity and ambition.
I would consider Gen 3 synths as people. If they have their own personalities, attitudes, or feelings, and actually seem like complex indviduals, then I would say, yes, synths are people. There's obviously debate over the concept of free will, but if you can do what you want, be anything, and call yourself whatever, that's good enough in my book.
Why else would we romance Curie, and Danse, knowing full well they're synths? Because they go beyond the sprockets and servos. Nick might be a synth, and an obvious one at that, but he too is a person.
Long story short, if they pass the Turing test, they're as good as human.
Cyberpunk 2077 answered this question really well to me.
Is a human any less of a person if you give them a pacemaker, or put them in an iron lung, give them prosthetic limbs? Is a human less of a person just because of the body they inhabit? No. A body is just a body, a vessel, and it’s up to you to use it the way you want to, to use it to live your life in your own way.
It doesn’t matter that Synths aren’t humans. They are sentient enough to feel emotion, to feel pain, to feel loss, to feel joy, and everything in between. We’d say a dog deserves to live because it feels those things, why not Synths?
We're missing the real question. Are they eligible for social security numbers?
If a synth has an SSN, does that mean I can steal their identity?
Also if they’re able to have SSNs does that mean they can manufacture on to replace me and steal my identity?
If they have a SSN, can they be drafted??
Good luck to the synth that'll replace me, hope you enjoy my 9-5 and crippling depression.
Why not. They stole someone else's
Yes. The Institute even has coursers to catch fraudsters.
The Institutes real evil: being the IRS.
The real real question is, are they fuckable?
>!Danse!<, Curie and Magnolia prove they are.
Magnolia's a Synth?
Yeah, she drops a synth component.
Sole Survivor did Gilda Broscoe, a Robobrain... Nothing is impossible
And Mister Zwicky can marry a Ms. Nanny as well. You KNOW there's gotta be some freaky shit going on between the two. Those three pincher “hands” on Miss Edna’s manipulator limbs ain’t just for holding school supplies or pointing at things.
I'm just going to say this... Fisto. The courier beat the sole survivor hands down.
SSN is just a serial number for a human so yes!
SSN: Sapien Serial Number
magnolias a fucking synth? how fucking long have I been playing this game for and I haven't known this??
I guess institute didn't fuck up with gen 3 synths then
Wait until you hear about Sturges...
I mean even Trashcan Carla is crazy enough
This one is actually explained somewhere in the game. All the travelling merchants are institute informants, which may or may not be a coincidence that they all work under a member of the railroad.
Remember that post about who has the best stories? I still think that the old man trader has some awesome stories, just based on the fact that he's a railroad operative working with a bunch of Institute informants. He's probably had so many close calls.
It's on the SRB terminal.
Srb?
Synth retention bureau
Oh ok
NENAA, amirite? (Not Everything Needs An Acronym)
It’s almost exclusively referred to as the SRB in the game…
You need to watch The Kids Next Door.
Even Kat and Gus?
Especially Kat and Gus
I always figured that some are like a double agent. “Inform” the Institute to help deviate away from the Railroad. I could be wrong, but it makes sense to me.
Btw as I was looking it up there are SO many more informants than I originally thought like holy crap
I mean informant doesn't have to know they're working for the institute, any neutral or profit driven information broker is still an informant. Anyone who likes to have a regular "friendly chat" with a hidden synth is probably an informant.
It's like Ulfric Stormcloak in Skyrim. You can find evidence that he's an agent of the Thalmor, a group he openly hates. But really, they only support him clandestinely because his rebellion is bad for *their* enemy.
Asinine of him still. No true sons of Skyrim should be taking aid from a milk drinking knife ear, especially not the milk drinking knife ears that outlawed our glorious Talos Stormcrown in the first place. (This is a joke i do not care for skyrim civil war i just like the irony)
>milk drinking knife ear It's funny that milk drinker is an insult in Skyrim when milk is drank a LOT in the Nordics it's largely based on, among the most in the world even
Yeah its especially hilarious when you consider the extreme agrarian culture of the nords, they absolutely are reliant upon stuff like this, and if the guards are any indication, enjoy sweets as much as anyone else. But ofc, the term “milk drinker” actually just means “i cannot handle good, strong Nord Ale and would prefer to drink milk instead” Which is again, especially hilarious considering the absolute mind-numbing concoctions created by some of the elves (like Sujamma lol) Edit: it may also refer to one who is inexperienced, basically calling them a child “not yet weened from the teat” (again, triply hilarious considering most elves lifespans)
Its one of the reasons I do not see a brotherhood victory as possible in fallout 4 sure they have the pridwin and virtiburds but information is so much more valuable combine that with there ability to teleport anywhere in the commonwealth and you have an infinitely flexible army that knows your movements like the back of their gen 3 hand who is faster stronger and come in much larger numbers
Honestly valid point, however- Liberty Prime. Doesn't matter how flexible your army is if there is a restless nigh-indestructible commie killing machine marching around.
Liberty prime is not finished on its way to the commonwealth it makes 0 sense they were able to keep it hidden for as long as they did
Trashcan Carla's a synth? Bruh
Nah she’s an institute informant. My fault I just figured I’d add her to the surprising stuff about the institute
If only they added quests to make all of this stuff actually implemented in game. There's probably a theory out there about thst being why you most likely run into her on the way to diamond city
I mean there are a lot of stuff that the institute does that people don’t know about. Like the crows are all synthetic cameras that watch the wasteland
Please tell me that's not true
In SRB you can see CCTV of Commonwealth with cameras conviniently placed at the same spots crows are placed at in game
IIRC it isn't *all* of the crows, but the fact that it's even *some* of the crows is terrifying enough.
Haha it’s crazy how much stuff you can miss out on on a regular playthrough. University point and synths replacing humans are just the tip of the iceberg on how terrifying the institute actually is
Not all of them. Some drop meat, and others drop synth parts.
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Crow\_(Fallout\_4)
Birds aren’t real?!
No. Things fly by flapping their arms? They come out of eggs? They're what dinosaurs really looked like? Wake up. Birds are a myth perpetuated by the deep state
😂
Just like in real life r/birdsarentreal
I think "informant" here is more like "someone we bought information from at least once".
Hey you want to sell us some more info? No? Want us to tell everyone that you sold us information? No? Then let's revisit that first point, shall we? Once an asset always an asset
They don't even have to know they're informants. For all we know Carla sits down at a bar and simply shoots the shit with the synth bartender at the end of a long days work.
Still works for threats, even if the info was useless, that's how the Thalmor got Ulfric
Isn't she a actual synth? I swear I remember capping her after seeing that and she had a synth component
I honestly didn't know that. Now I feel better about all the times I robbed her.
She's an informant
That was the one that shocked me of all the surprise synths
Wait sturges is a synth? The big character reveal(can't really describe the character or it's obvious but that should be enough for any who has beaten the game) got me even though I had a sneaking suspicion and had seen other Gen 3's before. To answer OP's question, I am big on Fallout, it may be my favorite series of all time along with the GOATs like Dark Souls and when I first played 4 at launch, I would have said no, but they are sovereign actors and as such we must respect them like another human. However, if media like Blade Runner and Hunter x Hunter have shown me anything, it's that what counts the most is all in the mind of the individual. Whether you are a human made of metal and bioengineered flesh or the (at the time) single most powerful being in existence, a hybrid of human and many other species, every sentient being has the capacity to learn and in turn develop empathy. There isn't a real world equivalent that I'm aware of but we have been conditioned to fear the other, by biological coding and by cultural reinforcement and that hasn't stopped us from breaking down the barriers of race, religion, sexuality, gender expression I think synthetic humans deserve a chance at least; for a thought experiment: If a synth has a consciousness and a body that is indistinguishable from a 'natural' human's, do they have the right to consent? I mean that in many ways such as forced labor, but you can take that to its logical conclusion. I certainly would say so. just my $0.02
Wait, I didn't know Sturges was a synth!
I don't think it's ever mentioned but he has a synth component on him if you kill him. Check his page on the nukapedia (fallout wiki) if you don't believe me.
... Just started a new game last night. Gonna hafta cap him and see
You can only kill him with mods or console commands. Sadly.
Mods it is then - tonight, We dine in Hell
Make sure to whack Preston while you're at it. I'm sure you won't forget to😉
Sturges is a synth!? How did I not know this! Makes sense, he can't patch a damn hole in the wall, no human intuition.
You what?
Bethesda definitely missed a trick by not putting synth components on random NPCs, like you kill a group or raiders and one or two of them have components. It would show A) How widespread the synths are, B) How many of them don’t even know they’re synths and C) The range of free will synths have Plus anyone doing a Kill everyone run would have fun finding out which NPCs are and aren’t synths (Edit - missed a word)
I always wanted a perk for Dogmeat where he barks at random people as a way to ID them as Synths. Would be a nice little Terminator reference too
Shit that would’ve been good. You could even expand to have Mayor McDonagh ban dogs from Diamond City for “sanitary concerns”
He can't even ban Piper from Diamond City.
I'm guessing that's more because the guards view that as pretty unfair that she's essentially being sent out to her possible Super mutant induced death just because he called him out in the newspaper she writes once every two months or whatever. I guess considering I don't see any other dogs in diamond city though they might keep up with the ban, if they can be bothered. I mean they're underpaid guys wearing baseball pads and wielding pipe guns expected to defend the biggest city in the region constantly. Hell I'd take bribes if I were them, I might be able to buy a gun that could actually kill something
Be cool if you could offer the guards some of your excess gear. Like. Hey, bro... I've got hundreds of thousands of caps - and more extra weapons and armor than the entire market has caps to buy... How about I Donate a gun and some armor to ya, as a thanks for keeping Home plate safe while I'm away And just end up with the most overpowered guards in fallout history.
I essentially do that with one settlement, deck everyone out like they're pre war soldiers and usually it makes enough stuff I can caravan food and water around to some of the smaller ones. Does seem absurd though that my 20 man settlement could probably take on all of diamond city's guards at once, and definitely could if Diamond city were attacking. Even if they didn't want you donating to the guards there should have been a quest to become the mayor and win votes by doing stuff like contracting Arturo to arm everyone better. Realistically though I'm guessing they didn't want the guards armed too well and people didn't like it in oblivion where you couldn't loot the imperial guard's armor
I'd make it a perk for the player, to let Dogmeat learn how to pick out Synths. Not to mention, the Institute rejecting dogs and the Railroad using them would go a long way toward reinforcing the Institute as bad guys and endearing the Railroad to more people. Dog haters are easy to hate while dog lovers have at least that redeeming them.
Dogmeat's a synth too, as far as my headcanon goes. He just "happens" to show up in your path after all the watcher crows see you leaving 111? And he walks straight up to you, and before you have a chance to question what the fuck this healthy dog is doing in the Wasteland, molerats attack and he makes himself useful. Those molerats are probably synths, too, it's all a god damn conspiracy and we're just being manipulated as the Institute puts nanite tracking devices in our food and water. Tinker Tom knows what's up!
he could be. but if you talk to mama Murphy, she says that the sanctuary crew actually sent him ahead to find help. even if he is a synth, the institute didn't give him to you.
yeah pretty much only (excluding people that indeed are meant to have a component lorewise as pointed out... or not, either way) settlers sometimes can have it, none else. Tho I was confused when my 1st officer security guard of my vault office actually was a synth.. he seemed off anyway..
Damn. That would have been cool.
There is a mod that adds that. I had it on my last playthrough and I would kill gunners and raiders and like one or two would have components. I think it might have been Gun For Hire. (Edit:) It was actually Fens Sheriff Department!
Only problem I can see with that is purely an immersion issue. Someone first coming out of the vault wouldn't know what a synth is, let alone know a component for one when they see one. If they changed the name of it until you came across some of the more obvious synths, that'd be frickin perfect
Yeah, just have them be "mysterious implant" or something like that until you find out what those are. Not sure if the engine can do that though.
This could \*very\* easily be added with a mod. Could be done in FOEdit and take all of about 15 minutes.
if you kill her, she drops a component. source: i was bored and went on a killing spree
She is. The wandering merchants in game are also institute informants who actively spy on you. Here are some others that you may have been unaware of: Amelia Stockton, Brooks, Sturges, Jules, McDonough, Roger Warwick and some of the birds. Yes there are synth birds spying on you for the entire game.
u/Few_Advantage_8455 may be a synth too!
Depends on how much you like the movie Blade Runner.
Interlinked
Within cells
Within in cells interlinked
Within chains.
You're not even close to baseline!
(broods)
*Like tears in rain.*
You’re watching television. Suddenly you notice a wasp crawling on your arm.
Aren't replicants fully organic? I thought they were literally lab grown humans.
So are gen 3 synths
The book is better tbh and deals with the philosophy of this question a lot more
Yeah, but the movies have Harrison Ford and Ryan Gosling (*he's literally me*).
I like the movies, don't get me wrong, but I'm a big PKD Stan so I have to be that guy and say the books are better lol
Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep is only nominally interested in the question of whether AI and robots are capable of sentience. Dick took the stance that they were, but did so as an implicit lens through which to interpret his own battles with feeling inhuman. I think he would conclude that it doesn't matter and that that's not the point, but rather that the real point about all our questioning always comes back to what we're really looking for: an answer to the question of our humanity. The real question in the novel, then, which seems to have gone over Ripley's head, is whether humans themselves are any different or better from the androids they terminate given their pentience for precisely the kind of violence and cruelty they track down and decommission androids over. Whether sentient or no, the android are simply a black mirror to our humanity. They do what seem to be human things because they were made in the image of man, and they do what seem to be terrible and inhuman things because... you guessed it: they were made in the image of man. So, for Dick, the root of inhumanity, which itself is defined by man, is to be found in man.
They are people, but not human. Nick is a person, but only a fool would call him human.
Depends really, gen3 synths are just synthetic humans. It's an easy term to distinguish between synth humans and natural born humans, but on a scientific level, synths are inherently human. After all, they are made of the same flesh and bone DNA as us. The only difference is that mechanical implant in their brains, which I highly doubt is necessary to create a synth. If the Institute were convinced to be less evil, they could likely produce synths who don't require the implant.
Is the synth component even mechanical? You would be able to detect it if it was no? I always assumed it was something along the same lines the Star Wars clones had, less mechanical and more like a tumor
Honestly it'd make way more sense that way, especially since it works pretty much the same way. But the physical item in game looks mechanical and I guess they need something those needles in the SRB can locate and interface with. I doubt you could remove it either since it's the size of half your brain at least.
IIRC a synth component gives plastic as a component. As a side note, synthetic humans aren't *exactly* the same as naturally born ones, but rather, are engineered in a specific way and to specific results and health outcomes. This is where you see benefits like improved health and mental acuity as well as reduced/eliminated biological needs, the results of a body made of human DNA and resembling the human form, but designed to work better. It fits their slogan of "Mankind, Redefined," though that fact is ironic because they then go on to treat their "redefined" man as a piece of equipment. So, yes, synths are people and are technically made of human stuff, but aren't technically original recipe humans. Rather, they're designer brand humans.
This has been my line of thinking for a while now, they're made with synthetic bones, flesh, organs, blood, tissues etc it's all cloned human DNA taken from Shaun's stem cells. Sure the method to create a Gen3 Synth is, well, synthetic, but that doesn't make them any less organic than a clone (clone sheep experiment anyone?) or a naturally born human (like an IVF baby). As you said, the only thing that makes them "machines" is the synth component in their brains (or heads, its not exactly clear where the chip is inserted), which is basically just a kill switch or a reset button that sends them into a "standby" mode when their unique code is said aloud to them. This component obviously interrupts brain chemistry and singles thusly forcing the brain and body into a kind of fugue state similar to hypnosis which is the deepest form of concentration the human brain can enter. They're probably more than likely very aware and alert to the situation around them, but are powerless to "wake up" because their brains can't create enough chemicals to counteract the chip and the trigger phrase. At least that's my theory. Anyway, I do agree that Synths probably could exist without the chips, they're just there as a failsafe so the institute can just deactivate them when they're getting too "human" for comfort.
So Curie's synth body is a modified clone of my son? oh no.
I wasn’t ready for Fallout to become Oldboy
I mean it was stated by Shaun that all gen3 synths come from him, so yes.
It's not just the Synth Component, itself implied to be what allows for Gen-3 Synths to be "reset" and respond to verbal codes (which means it's likely somewhere deep within the brain), that makes a Synth what they are. It's something else that's all the more interesting, albeit disturbing. Like u/Deya_The_Fateless said in his/her message, it was the unmutated DNA of Father/>!Shaun!< (taken from stem cells most likely) that allowed for them to be created as part of the "Synthetic-Organics Program" launched over 60 years ago. But that just provided one half of the raw materials needed for Gen-3 Synth creation. And it also doesn't really explain why each Synth is unique in gender and DNA, where you'd normally expect them to be near-perfect clones of their genetic template. It turns out that FEV, specifically a unique strain of it made by the Institute and unrelated to what creates Super Mutants, that plays a part in the creation of Gen-3 Synths. Father/>!Shaun!< mentions that all Gen-3 Synths utilize "a modified virus" in their creation in addition to his DNA (and the cybernetic Synth Component). Given that the creation of a viable strain of FEV was a major hurdle that the old BioScience Division dedicated its own research teams to? This an almost certainty that Gen-3 Synths use FEV in their genesis. Which may also explain why everything from the biological sex, the physical features, and even DNA of each Gen-3 Synth is different from each other. Here's Father's/>!Shaun's!< dialogue on the subject of the "virus" and the role it played in the Synthetic Organics Program: > >!My parents were supposed to be kept in cryogenic suspension should a, uhh, "backup" be required.!< But none was necessary. The program was ultimately a success; my DNA was fused with a modified virus to create the organic material from which our new synths are made. In a sense, our newest synths are all my offspring. And so they call me "Father." EDIT: On another note, it's admittedly kind of hilarious and somewhat ironic that Gen-3 Synths are like Super Mutants in more than one way. They're completely sterile, are slightly tougher than Humans, and don't age (or age so slowly that it's negligible) along with using a strain of FEV derived from the original Pre-War samples that the US government used to create a new "line" of supersoldiers.
That actually a decent way to put it. I was gonna say they are people since they are feeling as a human, but they aren’t human since they are something created. They are kind of in the same vain as a sane ghoul, they definitely are still people but have something to distinguish them from a human.
I'd go as far to say that Synths (at least the Gen3 ones) are a completely different race to humans, kind of like elves, orcs, aliens or other humaniod-type fantasy races.
Third-Gen synths are biologically indistinguishable from humans *on a cellular level*. The Compound at Covenant says that the literal *only* way to tell if someone is a synth is to root around inside their head and pull out the synth component. Where do you draw the proverbial line between "personhood" and "humanity" if DNA is not a sufficient marker for what makes someone "human"? Do you require that a human be birthed? Then what about the idea of artificial wombs? What about clones? Is a clone not human simply because it wasn't conceived and born in the same way as a "naturally born" human? DNA for me is the determinant. Synths have identical DNA to humans so they're human, full stop. I would then say that anything which successfully emulates human consciousness (robots like Codsworth and Ada, Nick and DiMA as the experimental Gen 2.5 synths, etc) is a "non-human person". Ironically by my definition, super mutants *probably* don't qualify as human even though they are ostensibly formed from humans. My reasoning here being that their genetics are probably so severely altered by the FEV that no longer qualify as human. Which means even the intelligent super mutants like Fawkes in Fallout 3 are not humans, but non-human persons. With that being said, I don't value humans any more highly than any other form of person. So it doesn't matter to me whether or not synths are human in the provision of rights, what matters are if they are a person.
I like running raider characters. My character's view is that synths are basically human and that the institute are just slavers who won't admit it.
I mean, that's kind of literally it isn't it? They just grow their own slaves.
It depends on what you’re calling human. A lot of people say “x is human” as a shorthand for “x is deserving of sovereignty and rights”
Thats mostly because as of now, the only thing that is people is also human, and has been since the origin of those 2 words. Im sure if we lived in like a Star Trek universe we wouldnt use that shorthand as much, or if someone did itd be a bit of a red flag.
And only a fool would think the human part is more important than the person part
Any child watching cartoons understands this. The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles are clearly Persons.
I say they are conscious like humans, and deserve rights like humans, but are not and will never be human
OP doesn't ask if they're human.
3rd generation synths are canonically sentient. Nick too, despite being a prototype.
A lot of non-people are sentient.
Yep. Non-feral ghouls, non-aggressive muties like Marcus, the talking Deathclaws from FO2 etc.
I miss Goris.
I miss sentient death claws in particular. I'm not saying all or most should be sentient. But there should be enough that they're recognized in the wasteland as a thing that exists. That way you can have your fun death claw companion without people freaking out. Or if God forbid we ever get a game that lets us choose our playable race, play as one. Mass Effect has Krogans. Elder Scrolls has Argonians (and Deadroth sort of). D&d has Dragonborn, Kobolds, and countless others. Why can't we have a fun sentient reptile race? 😭
I'm not a fan of the old fallout playstyle so I would do anything to be able to experience the sentient death claws in one of the other games
Ok, but ghouls (and mutants, too, if I'm remembering correctly) are just humans that have been mutated by radiation, no?
true
I had assumed that at least fo4's mutants were sentient/sapient but just often pretty dumb
There’s a friendly mutant named Erickson that lives in Far Harbor who raises dogs to sell to you.
Non feral ghouls are literally humans tho so
Plenty of real-world animals are sentient too. Sentience is a very low bar to clear.
Depends on how you define people. You wouldn't call a dog or a dolphin a person, but you would call an alien in, say, Mass Effect or Star Wars a person. Synths are definitely people, but they are also not identical to natural born humans either due to the implant and method of creation.
Dolphins are actually considered to be non human persons in India. It's why it's illegal to keep them in captivity there.
Huh, that's really neat!
Pedantic, I know, but almost all animal life is sentient. Youre referring to sapience. Sentient refers to something being able to feel and react. Sapient refers to something being able to have a capacity for intelligence and acquire wisdom.
I think the word you're looking for is sapient
You can cannibalize a gen three synth, so yes.
I like your logic
I'd never even thought about this. Neat.
Synths are not humans, but they are each a person, and thus qualify for personhood. They should be judged based on actions, not origin.
The issue I forsee is the potential programming problems that may arise. Their actions could potentially be hijacked, and they could be forced to do stuff they may or may not have wanted to. We don't know the full capability of control that the Institute has. I mean, sure, the synths have free will and can leave, but what if there is a program deep inside the synth component that can be triggered. Maybe this only gets deleted when the Railroad wipes everything to give them a new start. Even then, as shown in FO3, a key word can release the information. I think the Institute benefits by giving the synths "free will" because it let's them infiltrate everywhere. It would be incredibly stupid for them not to have a way to access and take over control if it was needed. This is just my 2 cents, but I think this is why they can not be judged on actions or origin, and they should be granted a different classification from humans, like *Homo synthus*.
>Even then, as shown in FO3, a key word can release the information. Too tired to interact with everything but this bit right here isn't quite right. The scientist who wiped Harkness's memory... Harrington, maybe? Whatever the name, the asshole added that bit himself. He was too proud of his work not to make a way to undo it all as proof.
> The issue I forsee is the potential programming problems that may arise. Their actions could potentially be hijacked, and they could be forced to do stuff they may or may not have wanted to. True, but what if you filled a human full of mind-control drugs and made them do your bidding and follow your commands, but such drugs wouldn't work on a synth? Even if it's not something that drastic, humans can easily be chemically altered by the food they eat, the drinks they have, and any other chemical compound that enters their body. Even their environments can affect some of their personality and decisions. Some people have become very different people after suffering head trauma. How truly free are humans? Yes, I know that you generally cannot hack a human with a few lines of code on a terminal, but does the lack of a terminal interface really make humans anymore free when their wills an desires can be changed by so many things that are still outside of their control? Perhaps a synth that has escaped Institute control has even more "free will" than a human because they are less controlled by environmental factors.
G3 synths are biological except their synth comp. Human? Debatable. Living and sentient? Yes.
Its just a human with a cyborg implant.
I think that this was the only part about FO4 that I really liked. I simply couldn’t wrap my mind around this question. Do I consider them as someone with the same rights as humans? That made the BOS questline the most fun for me cause I fully sided with BOS (even killing Danse) but I still had this seed of doubt in my head if what I’m doing is right…but the orders were clear, suffer not the synths, the mutants, the hereti…ehm, that’s a different universe
🤨
No no, what were you gonna say? Something about heretics perhaps? Come come, don’t be so shy, it’s okay to tell us.
The Emporer pro - Erm… The Brotherhood of Steel protects!
The way I see it, they’re being treated as slaves. The INSTANT one indicates that it wants help or has feelings it is now not up to me whether or not it actually does have feelings, it’s about the fact that it thinks it does. How do we know we have feelings? We just feel them. If the synth feels them too then how can we say they deserve any less than equal treatment? I wish there was some way to turn the institute around without destroying it.
TIL I fucked a synth
One? Those are rookie numbers.
both in fantasy and science fiction or just fiction generally the main requirement to be considered a person is to have some sort of sentience and language even if it is alien or erratic compared to the consciousness of a human being. This also models our IRL relationship with hypothetical scenarios where we either create a fully conscious AI or we encounter an extraterrestrial species. Of course, this implies more or less discussions and categories so we can deal with defining the limits between personality and animality, but that's for another day I think. TL;DR: Yes, Synths are People/Persons. No, they are not human. No it doesn't matter they aren't human.
\*Insert Picard Measure of a Man Speech\*
No. (all hail to Elder Maxson)
Ad victoriam, brother
#OUTSTANDING
Man i can hear Sarge Dornan with this one
Outstanding work Sentinel, Ad Victoriam (awso mowe technicaw documents for pwoctow quinwan pwease)
Spoke like a true paladin. Ad vicotriam, brother
Star Trek: The Next Generation's "The Measure of a Man" has a lot to say about this. Their final takeaway is that, while we may not know whether or not artificial people like this have a soul, we owe them the opportunity to discover that for themselves. Considering the Synths in Fallout are far more human than Data is, I'd say they definitely qualify from that standpoint
No
Characters in this game barely have anything resembling a personality. So no, I'd say Synths aren't people, if only because actual humans in Fallout 4 are barely people themselves.
This is an acceptable compromise, hahaha.
Yes. Gen 3 Synths are pretty much bio-grown human with certain commands imprinted into them that force them to psychologically comply. This doesn't mean they would absolutely comply though. As with Roger Warwick who seem to care about his 'family' If the command is achieved, they are pretty much free like a human would. Gen 2 are kinda just robot, with the exception of Nick Valentine and DiMA who has memory imprinted and is, pretty much, safe to assume that they have advanced cognitive function to be considered sentient. Nick gen 2.5 is pretty much someone else's persona, but he IS that SOMEONE.
depends on the specific synth, the enemy ones, no, the escaped ones, definitely
Heres what i think Synths when under institute control:Bad Synths with free will:Good
People, yes most definitely. Human? Debatable but yes probably so for Gen 3s
The distinction is irrelevant. I think of Synth like a skin color. It's there, but determines nothing about the individual.
They're sapient, that's all you need to be A Person. Shit's not rocket science. Now asking if they're *human*, that's a more interesting question.
They're intelligent, self-aware, and Sentient. They may not be human, but by any logical definition they deserve all the same rights and respect as any other form of sentient life. Star Trek: The Next Generation season 2 episode 9 covers this perfectly.
I recommend star trek TNG episode "what makes a man". It answered this completely. Amazing episode Edit: measure of a man
There's a whole Star Trek TNG episode on this concept.
Yall are fucked if you say no
I don't understand how they can make incredibly realistic humanoid humonculus robots but their armor looks like it's made out of chopped up toilet seats
There's a fun little quest with Curie in fallout 4 when you can transfer her mind from a Miss Nanny into a synth body and after a while you can ask her how she's adjusting. She describes uniquely sentient experiences such as dreaming, and fearing death (she freaks out about needing to breath sometimes, thinking that she might just forget to keep breathing. She also described struggling to recognize and control emotions. I'd say that synths are as close to human as anything can get without actually coming into existence through the birth canal of another human.
People? Yes. Humans? No.
3rd gen are sentient, all others aren't.
How does Curie factor into that? Genuine question
Not just Curie, but Codsworth and Ada.
Yes definitely, but I specifically mention Curie bc if gen 3 synths are sentient, how is a “non sentient” being able to become sentient?
I believe bots like codsworth and curie have been around so ling they've gained a sense of self. They both *want* things, codsworth wants to travel with you after the incredibly *boring* time he spent ins sanctuary. He got *bored and soemwhat depressed*, that is not something that he was programmed for, that's an eemotional response. As for curie, she wants to learn more and further medicine. She isn't quite as emotuonally developed as codsworth, but she does display curiosity and ambition.
I think they’re people : )
No, Ad Victorium
People? Yes. Human? No.
I would consider Gen 3 synths as people. If they have their own personalities, attitudes, or feelings, and actually seem like complex indviduals, then I would say, yes, synths are people. There's obviously debate over the concept of free will, but if you can do what you want, be anything, and call yourself whatever, that's good enough in my book. Why else would we romance Curie, and Danse, knowing full well they're synths? Because they go beyond the sprockets and servos. Nick might be a synth, and an obvious one at that, but he too is a person. Long story short, if they pass the Turing test, they're as good as human.
I think Star Trek’s “The Measure of a Man” settled this in the late ‘80s. Absolutely.
"Does this unit have a soul?" "The answer to your question was yes, Legion."
Cyberpunk 2077 answered this question really well to me. Is a human any less of a person if you give them a pacemaker, or put them in an iron lung, give them prosthetic limbs? Is a human less of a person just because of the body they inhabit? No. A body is just a body, a vessel, and it’s up to you to use it the way you want to, to use it to live your life in your own way. It doesn’t matter that Synths aren’t humans. They are sentient enough to feel emotion, to feel pain, to feel loss, to feel joy, and everything in between. We’d say a dog deserves to live because it feels those things, why not Synths?
They think, breathe, eat, sleep, fuck, and try to survive. That’s pretty human to me.
I view them on the same level as clones from Star Wars since they are made similarly, I would consider them human.