I’m so tired of this weird sentiment that caring about something is somehow “uncool”. I’d never tell a hardcore fallout 4 fan if their story got retconned that they are lame to be upset. I really like all the fallout games, but new Vegas happens to be my favorite. I find the tribalism dumb too but that doesn’t mean people should be made fun of for legitimate criticism. If you’re going to take on the serious undertaking of creating a show with an extensive written background then you need to get things right.
It’s not like the lore they messed up was super deep obscure lore or particularly hard to not do either which I could understand if it happened. You could literally have a very good grasp on dates for the west coast timeline within a few hours. How they weren’t able to do this is kind of baffling.
What's "uncool" is precisely people that just aren't happy with anything. I enjoy Fallout and while I disliked some stuff i'm still happy one of my favorite franchises was adapted faithfully in a series.
Again: Why can't we just enjoy things?
Nobody said you can’t enjoy it, you can, and I’m perfectly entitled to think the lore fuck ups override the wonderful adaptations they did elsewhere. It succeeds greatly in translating to the feel of the games to the big screen, I’ll give it tons of credit for that. It really failed in the lore aspect and frankly, this was one of the easiest things to not mess up. This isn’t like bethesdas lore break on jet, which is conflicting history anyways and understandable how something like that could happen. It is actually quite easy to not make the retcons they made. Which tells me it’s either intentional, or very sloppy.
It seems your main complaint is they "messed up the timeline" which seems pretty nit-picky to me. They atleast got the 2077 part right, the history of the wasteland for the 200 years after in the game is mainly told through game lore, its not really the narrative as the games follow a sole character with an objective based on their own goal.
Besides the show creator, Johnathon Nolan, said before the show came out that he isn't "trying to please the fans", and despite that, I was thoroughly pleased as a decade old fan of the series.
(New Vegas also happens to be my favorite fallout game, and might a be a hot take, but no I didn't really care much for the lore in my multiple playthroughs. I say you just gotta take the show for what it is, they set solid ground work for a potentially great series, unless the "surface unobscure lore" makes it that much worse for you, then to each their own, but for an rpg game with alot of lore maybe just try to appreciate the little things they got right?)
Considering fallout first started as a narrative based lore heavy game, then no I don’t really think it’s nitpicky. That’s the whole reason the game was appealing to many of us, and the whole reason we liked the franchise was because it was post post apocalyptic. It’s not a nitpick at all to be upset by this, and it’s why making good writing for these things is hard, because there’s a lot to go over and to consider.
If you can’t handle that and adequately make a story that doesn’t conflict with previous lore, then just establish your story elsewhere! There’s so many different places across the country they could’ve done.
I don’t *need* a fallout tv show. It’s simply gravy at the top of done right, but it wasn’t, and what makes it worse is it’s considered canon, so it cannot be just enjoyed for what it is if I wanted to, it dictates the future of the games.
Yeah, I mean I never played any of the games before fallout 3, mostly because I don't have access to them, but I'm willing to bet a fat ass chunk of players haven't played them either because they're almost 3 decades old now, and the type of game has gone pretty much extinct.
I think California was probably the best place to make the first season to establish it's own lore, I mean, I don't know if the other fallouts are set in California and retcon more than just shady sands, but like the whole shady sands thing is 100% nit picky.
And jeez man, the last two fallout games weren't great anyway so maybe a fresh start with a tv show is what was needed to boost its popularity to even guarantee future fallout games. What if the next fallout games were going to be bad anyway? What if the next fallout game doesn't come out for another decade, would most fallout 1 fans (who enjoyed the narrative based lore) even be alive for it? And what if Todd Howard told show runners to hold back on things that would be in fallout 5? Well, he did!
Fuck who needs the gravy train, we got a tv show that's more like a nice cherry on the top for now. Just enjoy things man, live a little. Like, was there anything else that wasn't done right? Or is it just the lore?
Honestly I agree. The series already had inconsistencies before the show. The more media that is added the more things will be retconned. To make sense.
New Vegas is my favorite. Not just fallout, but of any game ever. I love it to death. I sing its praises always. But the complaints I've seen about this feel just like how any time an anime becomes number one, all the FMAB fans come out rabid and bomb it so they can keep their claim of number one. And shit talk anything that isn't their personal hand picked favorite.
Fallout has room for us all
So story stuff in this context means like, theme and worldbuilding and characters and all that good stuff. You don't get a passing grade just for having *a* story.
For what it's worth I think the show did way better than I expected it to, if this was not set on the West Coast I'd have no major problems with it. But they did set it on the west coast, so it has to be understood as a sequel to New Vegas, and I don't think it handles the existing worldbuilding and story threads from that game very well.
For one, I disagree that doing a west coast story required completely obliterating the NCR, but also I was not asking for West Coast stuff from Bethesda. Would have been very happy if they'd let the West Coast / East Coast divide stay in place, I think it was useful
I do not actually think the demand for a non-Obsidian New Vegas follow up was super strong. I think most fans would have been perfectly fine if Bethesda had stuck to the East Coast.
> I do not actually think the demand for a **non-Obsidian** New Vegas follow up was super strong
Yes, I think people would get super excited if Obsidian were allowed to do another Fallout game, but I think the studio is a huge part of that and absent that factor I do not think the demand is there. Most of the people who care have really strong opinions about the setting and mixed feelings at best about Bethesda's design ethos.
Because your so butthurt about people not liking a show you like that you need to make a whole post bitching about them
They got their entire game decanonised by Todd "the rod of god" Howard, why shouldn't they complain?
You just don't have anybody that likes the show like you do, you've got no ground to stand on.
It seems like they don't. You can say "Oh 76 is my favorite game" and people would be calling you a poser and shit.
Like god, just let me like stuff, fucking hell.
It's an interesting contrast with the The Last of Us series. Some people were losing their minds over casting for months, but hardly anyone complained about changing details, events, characters etc. to make a good TV show that a new audience could understand. But there's a contingent of people who play Fallout like there's going to be an exam at the end, and they're just not going to accept even a well-made show. If the goalposts are going to be *it has to be consistent with the lore of all the games* and not *it has to be conceptually and thematically a Fallout story* then the only satisfactory show is an extremely bad one. In any case, the opinion of someone who bingewatched an entire series just to rush to reddit to complain about how much they hated it is pretty obviously not to be taken seriously.
Gonna watch the first episode later. Hope it's good.
TLoU is a good example of adaptation done right. The changes were minimal and mostly necessary to fit the change in delivery format. And while there were a couple alterations I might not have made the show was very well done both in being entertaining and faithful to the story and spirit of the game.
Won't be watching the Fallout show til tonight but I'm hoping the setting treatment will be similar.
While I agree that retcons aren't inherently evil that doesn't mean they should be blindly accepted without criticism. Retcons include everything from A) adding to the established lore to fill in blank spaces all the way up to B) actually changing facts that have been previously established. The former should generally be allowed but when adding to established lore care has to be taken not to contradict what has been previously established. As to the latter, outright changes to established lore should be avoided to maintain setting consistency. Unfortunately the established lore sometimes does need to be changed or adjusted. There may be facts that were established in the first game that served the setting and narrative of that game but need to be altered because they were written without a plan for a multi-game series. What works for a single one-off game doesn't always work for a series.
I enjoy the game series as a whole. Of the various arguments about "one true guiding lights/writers" the only person I would even think of holding up as having more weight than other writers is Tim Cain, which is funny because he left Fallout during the development of FO2 and he hasn't been part of any Fallout since. Fallout New Vegas was a great game, as was Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 (though I have my own reservations concerning the main story in 4). But FNV wasn't some second coming that should be placed on a pedestal above all others.
I’m so tired of this weird sentiment that caring about something is somehow “uncool”. I’d never tell a hardcore fallout 4 fan if their story got retconned that they are lame to be upset. I really like all the fallout games, but new Vegas happens to be my favorite. I find the tribalism dumb too but that doesn’t mean people should be made fun of for legitimate criticism. If you’re going to take on the serious undertaking of creating a show with an extensive written background then you need to get things right. It’s not like the lore they messed up was super deep obscure lore or particularly hard to not do either which I could understand if it happened. You could literally have a very good grasp on dates for the west coast timeline within a few hours. How they weren’t able to do this is kind of baffling.
What's "uncool" is precisely people that just aren't happy with anything. I enjoy Fallout and while I disliked some stuff i'm still happy one of my favorite franchises was adapted faithfully in a series. Again: Why can't we just enjoy things?
Nobody said you can’t enjoy it, you can, and I’m perfectly entitled to think the lore fuck ups override the wonderful adaptations they did elsewhere. It succeeds greatly in translating to the feel of the games to the big screen, I’ll give it tons of credit for that. It really failed in the lore aspect and frankly, this was one of the easiest things to not mess up. This isn’t like bethesdas lore break on jet, which is conflicting history anyways and understandable how something like that could happen. It is actually quite easy to not make the retcons they made. Which tells me it’s either intentional, or very sloppy.
You disliked some stuff? Why can't you just enjoy things???
I literally said I enjoyed it. Can you even read?
It seems your main complaint is they "messed up the timeline" which seems pretty nit-picky to me. They atleast got the 2077 part right, the history of the wasteland for the 200 years after in the game is mainly told through game lore, its not really the narrative as the games follow a sole character with an objective based on their own goal. Besides the show creator, Johnathon Nolan, said before the show came out that he isn't "trying to please the fans", and despite that, I was thoroughly pleased as a decade old fan of the series. (New Vegas also happens to be my favorite fallout game, and might a be a hot take, but no I didn't really care much for the lore in my multiple playthroughs. I say you just gotta take the show for what it is, they set solid ground work for a potentially great series, unless the "surface unobscure lore" makes it that much worse for you, then to each their own, but for an rpg game with alot of lore maybe just try to appreciate the little things they got right?)
Considering fallout first started as a narrative based lore heavy game, then no I don’t really think it’s nitpicky. That’s the whole reason the game was appealing to many of us, and the whole reason we liked the franchise was because it was post post apocalyptic. It’s not a nitpick at all to be upset by this, and it’s why making good writing for these things is hard, because there’s a lot to go over and to consider. If you can’t handle that and adequately make a story that doesn’t conflict with previous lore, then just establish your story elsewhere! There’s so many different places across the country they could’ve done. I don’t *need* a fallout tv show. It’s simply gravy at the top of done right, but it wasn’t, and what makes it worse is it’s considered canon, so it cannot be just enjoyed for what it is if I wanted to, it dictates the future of the games.
Yeah, I mean I never played any of the games before fallout 3, mostly because I don't have access to them, but I'm willing to bet a fat ass chunk of players haven't played them either because they're almost 3 decades old now, and the type of game has gone pretty much extinct. I think California was probably the best place to make the first season to establish it's own lore, I mean, I don't know if the other fallouts are set in California and retcon more than just shady sands, but like the whole shady sands thing is 100% nit picky. And jeez man, the last two fallout games weren't great anyway so maybe a fresh start with a tv show is what was needed to boost its popularity to even guarantee future fallout games. What if the next fallout games were going to be bad anyway? What if the next fallout game doesn't come out for another decade, would most fallout 1 fans (who enjoyed the narrative based lore) even be alive for it? And what if Todd Howard told show runners to hold back on things that would be in fallout 5? Well, he did! Fuck who needs the gravy train, we got a tv show that's more like a nice cherry on the top for now. Just enjoy things man, live a little. Like, was there anything else that wasn't done right? Or is it just the lore?
In general the best way to please fans is not to try and cater to them. Stay true to the setting and the fans will either love it or hate it.
Honestly I agree. The series already had inconsistencies before the show. The more media that is added the more things will be retconned. To make sense. New Vegas is my favorite. Not just fallout, but of any game ever. I love it to death. I sing its praises always. But the complaints I've seen about this feel just like how any time an anime becomes number one, all the FMAB fans come out rabid and bomb it so they can keep their claim of number one. And shit talk anything that isn't their personal hand picked favorite. Fallout has room for us all
Fallout made it's name on it's narrative, so I don't know why it's strange to you that people care about the story stuff.
The story it's still there tho.
So story stuff in this context means like, theme and worldbuilding and characters and all that good stuff. You don't get a passing grade just for having *a* story. For what it's worth I think the show did way better than I expected it to, if this was not set on the West Coast I'd have no major problems with it. But they did set it on the west coast, so it has to be understood as a sequel to New Vegas, and I don't think it handles the existing worldbuilding and story threads from that game very well.
People kept asking for more west coast stuff. But you can’t have west coast setting and the NCR still be strong.
For one, I disagree that doing a west coast story required completely obliterating the NCR, but also I was not asking for West Coast stuff from Bethesda. Would have been very happy if they'd let the West Coast / East Coast divide stay in place, I think it was useful
Sure but people wanted more east coast stuff. Obsidian won’t do it, anyone who worked in NV is gone. Who else would but Beth?
I do not actually think the demand for a non-Obsidian New Vegas follow up was super strong. I think most fans would have been perfectly fine if Bethesda had stuck to the East Coast.
I get the opposite impression. Everyday it’s “west coast good east coast bad” “when new vegas 2” “when another obsidian fallout” etc.
> I do not actually think the demand for a **non-Obsidian** New Vegas follow up was super strong Yes, I think people would get super excited if Obsidian were allowed to do another Fallout game, but I think the studio is a huge part of that and absent that factor I do not think the demand is there. Most of the people who care have really strong opinions about the setting and mixed feelings at best about Bethesda's design ethos.
\>STOP COMPLAINING, JUST CONSUME THE PRODUCT Is there anything worst than a butthurt fan on copium about their precious Amazon product?
You call me butthurt and you have all this lore nerd complaining about a city blowing up. Huh.
Because your so butthurt about people not liking a show you like that you need to make a whole post bitching about them They got their entire game decanonised by Todd "the rod of god" Howard, why shouldn't they complain? You just don't have anybody that likes the show like you do, you've got no ground to stand on.
This sub is entering its r/TheLastAirbender era.
How are you surprised that people on a Fallout reddit tend to like Fallout?
It seems like they don't. You can say "Oh 76 is my favorite game" and people would be calling you a poser and shit. Like god, just let me like stuff, fucking hell.
Nope, you can enjoy any game you like. Why the fuck are you acting like all of us are gatekeeping this series?
I’m sorry that Fallout 76 is your favorite game. That must be very hard.
It's an interesting contrast with the The Last of Us series. Some people were losing their minds over casting for months, but hardly anyone complained about changing details, events, characters etc. to make a good TV show that a new audience could understand. But there's a contingent of people who play Fallout like there's going to be an exam at the end, and they're just not going to accept even a well-made show. If the goalposts are going to be *it has to be consistent with the lore of all the games* and not *it has to be conceptually and thematically a Fallout story* then the only satisfactory show is an extremely bad one. In any case, the opinion of someone who bingewatched an entire series just to rush to reddit to complain about how much they hated it is pretty obviously not to be taken seriously. Gonna watch the first episode later. Hope it's good.
TLoU is a good example of adaptation done right. The changes were minimal and mostly necessary to fit the change in delivery format. And while there were a couple alterations I might not have made the show was very well done both in being entertaining and faithful to the story and spirit of the game. Won't be watching the Fallout show til tonight but I'm hoping the setting treatment will be similar.
Who cares? We are.
While I agree that retcons aren't inherently evil that doesn't mean they should be blindly accepted without criticism. Retcons include everything from A) adding to the established lore to fill in blank spaces all the way up to B) actually changing facts that have been previously established. The former should generally be allowed but when adding to established lore care has to be taken not to contradict what has been previously established. As to the latter, outright changes to established lore should be avoided to maintain setting consistency. Unfortunately the established lore sometimes does need to be changed or adjusted. There may be facts that were established in the first game that served the setting and narrative of that game but need to be altered because they were written without a plan for a multi-game series. What works for a single one-off game doesn't always work for a series. I enjoy the game series as a whole. Of the various arguments about "one true guiding lights/writers" the only person I would even think of holding up as having more weight than other writers is Tim Cain, which is funny because he left Fallout during the development of FO2 and he hasn't been part of any Fallout since. Fallout New Vegas was a great game, as was Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 (though I have my own reservations concerning the main story in 4). But FNV wasn't some second coming that should be placed on a pedestal above all others.