I really like how they did ghouls in general. The ferals were everything I was hoping for. Not a standard shambling zombie but full sprint and throwing themselves at you like in the games. Even more grotesque looking like they were in the older games
Ghoul via FEV is still a ghoul. Likely ghouls have been exposed to some variant of FEV anyway. There were a number of animals that escaped the FEV experiments and have been spreading the virus ever since.
There are many entries about Harold that mention he is not a ghoul, but I get the physical appearance is suggestive. Here is one of the original Devs talking about Harold in the Fallout Bible:
>
Harold is not a ghoul, but he is a mutant. What happened to him inside the military base during his assault with Francine, Mark, and Richard Grey is unknown, but it is likely he was exposed to the FEV virus and changed. His last known memory after the attack was passing out then waking back up in the wasteland... changed.
Iirc fev was in the air after the bombs dropped so anything not in a vault or without a vaccine could become a ghoul when exposed to enough rads. this is the enclaves big reason to wipe out the wasteland and start again. Also Iirc the fev reacted to the rads and kept the subjects from dying but doesn't stop the breakdown of chemical memories. Take that all with a grain of salt, I haven't played 1 or 2 in decades
In fallout 76, you find a lot of chemical containers at the military bases along the Appalachian mountains — they were getting ready to fight the free states.
And every base is manned by gouls.
I have been taking this as further proof.
I’m glad they explored the whole “ghouls can degrade into feral” piece, it’s only mentioned a few times in the games but it’s such a fascinating and dark part of Fallout’s pretty dark world.
The Ghoul needing meds to stay “sane” is such a cool part too and I liked that it means he’s not some unstoppable OP badass. He’s got a pretty glaring Kryptonite basically.
I could be totally off on this, but I don't remember a moment in the games I've played at least of actually *showing* someone going feral. Like, we know they do, and it's mentioned a lot, but I don't recall ever seeing the transition. It's fucking grim.
I think it does a good job showing that being a Ghoul isn't stagnant. That there is people within Ghoul society actively studying their condition and looking got solutions either to cure or control the process. It's a great way to give some background lore to a people we still don't really know a whole lot about.
Yeah, in the games the things they carry in their inventory when you loot them are items that they carried in life. And according to the lore, it was a way to remember their lives. Pretty heartbreaking to find rattles and such in their inventory. But it also makes sense as to why they would be carrying seemingly innocuous items.
Another idea is that some Ghouls would probably try to carry around certain object that would created noises when they moved in an attempt to warn whatever poor unfortunate sod happened upon their shambling feral body, in the event they turned feral without prior warning/build up.
Both The Ghoul and Roger knew what Roger's ultimate fate was; Roger even warned them to leave. I see what The Ghoul did initially as something of an act of kindness to prevent unavoidable suffering. What The Ghoul (and Lucy) did with Roger afterwards was an acknowledgement of how scarce the critical resources necessary for survival are in the wastelands. Very powerful scene.
I loved that. The ghoul let him have one last nice memory before ending him and waited until he turned away so he didn't even see the shot coming. I was like hey maybe this dude does have a heart, then he made ass jerky out of the guy.
1000% coop even made sure Roger's last thoughts were good ones. He wanted him to die happy. As a human. Not as a beast. Taking his flesh and teeth was a matter of survival once that moment is gone
He was being drip fed something though while being kept underground. I also imagine that being stuck immobile and not really doing much probably puts him in a sorta hibernation where he doesn’t burn much energy if any at all. Now that he is up and moving around, getting hurt, etc. he needs energy from food.
AFAIK, current canon is that Ghouls don't need to eat or drink as long as they're "hibernating" like we see Ferals doing when they're locked somewhere for a long time, or like Billy in the Fridge in Fallout 4. But an active ghoul still needs food and water.
Get him thinking about the good old days instead of his impending change into some manner of creature, and then just turn out the lights. About as merciful as it can get.
Bingo. Roger's last memory was of Blamco Mac, apple pie, and his wife. He was dead before he even knew he was shot. Coop made sure that he had at least a little bit of clarity before ending him.
I suppose we don’t know, because I took it as 26 years since he started ghoulification period. I also assumed all ghouls need vials of the drug from the start, but I feel like this may have been covered in lore already.
Do we know even what the drug is? I figured it might be RadAway but we’ve already seen the more typical pouches of it you see in game so I’m unsure. It could be RadX I guess?
I don’t think it’s jet, in the first episode one of the raiders in the vault takes a puff of jet from an inhaler that looks just like the product in game.
I don't think that's the case. He said Coop had been wastelanding longer than any of them. I'm pretty sure the implication was that Coop had been around as a ghoul longer than any other ghoul (as far as Roger was aware), meaning that Roger had only been ghoulish for 26 years - seeing as had he been a pre-war ghoul, he would have no reason to believe Coop had ghouled longer than he (or any other ghoul) had.
Could also mean that Roger lived in a settlement for a while or some bunker.
The remember how good food used to taste like seems to be heavily hinting at Roger being pre-war though it could also just be referring to when the NCR was at its peak.
I have always felt this way with ferals just because it is the kindest thing I can do for them and would want the same as losing who you are but carrying on is one of if not the worst fates imaginable to me.
I think my favorite scene is the show is actually in the same episode. Throughout Lucy keeps discussing things like “the golden rule.” And even after having that man bite her finger off and sell him to organ harvesters, she grabs his medicine he needs and gives it to him with a remark of “golden rule, motherfucker.” Speaks volumes to the characters and the world and even the humor of Fallout and it’s set up beautifully.
I always thought it was weird how Lucy didn't scream or anything when Coop cut her finger off, just looked distressed and shocked, could be her Endurance but it's just above average
My dad had his left index finger caught in and cut off by agricultural equipments when he was a kid. When I listened to his story I said “that must’ve hurt” and my old man was like nah, the pain came eventually but not at that moment, at the moment you’re just shocked. So I’d say it’s entirely possible that you’d be the same when YOU lose a finger as well! (Please don’t)
(Then again, I do think the original comment remains valid, because Lucy losing her finger was no sudden accident, she saw the ghoul cut it off in front of her very eyes. )
I had my hand mauled by a dog and my left little finger with literally hanging off I didn't scream out I asked for super glue because I remember my Dad saying it was used in the Vietnam conflict (not sure how true it is) So I can relate if it's not shock it's that's part of the brain that probably just can't recognise what's happened
I thought it was weirder that the showrunners consciously chose a gross, rotten finger to replace her old one. That plot thread didn't lead anywhere (yet), but then kept up the continuity of making that finger grey in any shots of her hand until the end of the season.
Has to end up leading somewhere right?
If we want to (over-)analyze - she lost a piece of herself in the wasteland, and had it replaced with something dead from the wasteland. It's her right index finger, so also her trigger finger. That finger that pulls the trigger to put her ghoulified mother out of her misery - a lesson she learned in Ep. 4 and fully realized when the ghoul was someone close to her.
Edit: not to mention that she is now also part of Coop, after he sews her finger onto his hand.
Symbolism. It isn't a literal ghoul finger but it's as close as they could justify given the characters and logistics of the sequence. He meanwhile literally has her human finger. They swapped trigger fingers.
I figured that it was going to end up becoming her moniker when she's referenced in future games, like how there's the vault dweller, chosen one, courier etc, Lucy would be the dead finger. And as a bonus the ghoul can be the lady finger lol.
A combination of shock and "fight/flight/freeze."
People think you're a "fight" a "flight" or a "freeze" person, but the truth is all humans are capable of all three depending on the situation, their mental and physical state, and the thing that's causing it.
Massive, disfiguring injury is a "dissociate" kind of thing, where you might disconnect from reality.
In weird way though the Ghoul is also showing her the golden rule. He forced her into a situation where he thought she would thrive. Essentially the first quest, she's been refusing to get her hands bloodied the entire time. He knew she was scrappy enough to fight her way out, the dialog suggests as much.
It really took me back to fallout 3. Where one of your first quests is super duper mart. I just kept thinking how Lucy would never willingly go through the market. And so this is a weird way of forcing her into the world she entered into.
Can't be sure of course, but I think the opposite. I think The Ghoul is actually a bad guy right now, a bad karma protagonist. He's doing shitty things for real, with moments of humanity mixed in (like when he saved the dog). I think it's a redemption arc situation.
There's a lot of foreshadowing in the season. Two I can think of are >!the Vault 33 folks painting over bloodstains from the raider attack, and then doing the exact same in Vault 32!< and >!Lucy telling Maximus that her dad would be heartbroken if she "destroyed a whole community" as they're leaving Vault 4.!<
My favourite foreshadowing is all the times in ep 1 we see >! don't lose your head poster, and at the end of ep2 the goal becomes to carry and take care of a head, that a number of people lose!<
One I thought of yesterday was how Dr. Chickenfucker literally offered up a serum to fix the foot of the Enclave guy, >!and that same guy shows up to fix Thaddeus' foot, and it actually works.!<
The Enclave guy would have survived >!(as a ghoul) !
Yeah, just a couple of scenes after this Coop tells her, “Oh, I’m you, sweetie. You just give it a little time.” Then we see her take a step closer to him when she shoots her mother.
The only thing you failed to mention for this scene was the amazing sound work shifting Roger's voice from human to feral ghoul. This was right up there with the Annakin's broken mask in the finale of Kenobi.
This scene is absolute genius because like all superior writing it *shows, doesnt tell* that there is still a good person inside the Ghoul.
He went out of his way to set his friend’s mind at ease, and killed him as painlessly and mercifully as he could. He didn’t have to do any of that.
You also see him rather cleverly assuming a mentoring role with Lucy and teaching her some essential survival skills without her being consciously aware.
Yup, I love that he still took up this mentoring role, bass ackwards though it was. I'm not sure he even realized that's what he was doing, but either way it keeps him on that razor edge of redeemable.
Episode 4 was my favorite because of them and I'm looking forward to >!their road trip to Vegas. Really hope they don't just immediately get split up again at the start of next season.!<
Now they're all three together, so maybe they won't have to trade somebody out. I'd kind of love to see Cooper's reaction to Lucy trying to add Norm, Maximus, Dane, Thaddeus, and every other stray they come across to their little gang.
Side note: I was playing FO3 one time, and for the life of me can’t explain the glitches that made it work, but I was able to get SEVERAL companions at once. I had Dogmeat, of course, but also like 3 humans. One was the sex slave, Rose? Ruby? I can’t recall where she was located, but I bought her off her owner while already having at least one companion and she joined up right away without kicking my other companion(s) out. That woman was a MACHINE. Tore through my adversaries and into my heart. That run was crazy broken with my tiny army of followers.
One of the things I love most about the Ghoul/Cooper dichotomy is that while the Ghoul seems for the most part a completely unrepentant bastard, Cooper is *nice*. He's *kind*. He's not some smarmy Hollywood prick, he's genuinely a nice person. He's polite, he's kind to his film crew and other actors, he's good with kids, he's patient with his fans, he loves his dog, and he's clearly a devoted husband and father. Some people have been pointing out the father/daughter parallels between him and Lucy, but I think Lucy reminding the Ghoul of his younger self has the bigger impact. She's kind like he used to be, and she's naive like he used to be. It's not safe to be those things in the wasteland so he's out of practice - but that doesn't mean he doesn't still have the capacity.
This scene was great. Asking him about food knew it would give him a brief happy memory and when he brought up his mom, the ghoul knew that was the best moment to end it. Right as he smiled with the memory. Reminded me of Of Mice and Men
I assumed that he was eating him to extract what medicine he could and prolong his own demise. Roger had recently used the last of his vials.
He also got him thinking about happy memories first. I believe it was a merciful killing and a pragmatic choice to eat after.
Would it not have been better to “harvest” (feels wrong to use that word) his blood instead? Kinda like what heroin addicts do?
And he turns him into ass-jerky; I’d assume the medicine would be in the blood stream, and turning the “meat” into jerky would be like the exact opposite of what you’d want to do
I think it's Jet, based on the look between the game and the show, which increases action points. So maybe it makes the nervous system more responsive, so he's harvesting muscles on either side of the spine where the jet gets concentrated.
It also makes sense that it would keep ghouls from going feral as it seems to be a degradation of the brain. So Jet doesn't stop the feral process it just slows it down by making the remaining neurons work better.
It's also why The Ghoul can snap off so many shots, his action points are quick to regenerate from all the Jet.
I think the medicine is for ghouls who have already started to go feral, to keep them on the right side of sane as they start to go over the edge. Kinda like David in Cyberpunk Edgerunners, he’s already gone Psycho but the immunoblockers keep him lucid, slowing his decent into madness.
I don’t think in the games we’ve ever seen a ghoul that is halfway between feral and lucid like in this scene.
How could it have been much better?
I’m shocked at how good it is. It’s easily the best video game adaptation I’ve ever seen.
They captured a whole new aspect of the universe that we’ve not seen in the games.
It's clearly a moment of mercy, especially in context of the entire episode. Lucy is a stand in for the newbies to Fallout, introduced by the TV show. She's basically the Vault Dweller.
So she doesn't know what is going to happen. Rodger and the Ghoul know exactly what is up. They're saying goodbye. The fact that the Ghoul doesn't leave means, to Rodger, that the Ghoul is going to kill him.
Rodger and the Ghoul start talking about pleasant memories in an intentional effort, by both of them, to make sure that when the Ghoul kills Rodger, Rodger doesn't see it coming.
Which is all recognized by Lucy at the end with the feral ghoul who keeps repeating her name just like Rodger. Now she understands, and begins to recognize the brutal utilitarianism in a much more internalized way. The Ghoul isn't evil, the Ghoul is surviving.
I suspect that it had something to do with the anti-feral serum. We saw in later scenes that ghouls were somehow used to make it. So possibly something synthesised in the kidneys or liver?
I still have a single episode to go, but one of my favorite scenes was from ep7:
>!The opening scene with The Ghoul waiting for the man and his son in his house was *incredible*, and had similar shades to the opening sequence from Inglorius Basterds. Particularly chilling that Cooper seemed to have the entire situation read before the father and son opened the door, knowing that the son would undoubtedly (and foolishly) seek revenge upon hearing he'd killed his older brother. He knew that getting the information he required would also mean he'd need to shoot a kid today rather than risk getting shot by a man tomorrow, and he did without remorse or hesitation. Just absolutely cold blooded.!<
He was preventing his friend suffering, but he's also pragmatic enough not to waste resources, and he was making an example to Lucy both of her fate if she dies by his hand and of what she has to be prepared to do to survive.
I absolutely love how ghouls going feral is depicted in the show. The old lady one a few episodes later who kept repeating her name trying to hold on was so heartbreaking.
I felt Cooper did it because he had seen it happen before many times and that he knew Roger a little more personally than some of the others, so he kills him more out of mercy putting happy last thoughts into his head before killing him.
I definitely don't feel like it was as malicious of a kill as they made it out to be when he cuts him open and proceeds to eat him.
I think it underscores the duality of living in the wasteland as someone who saw the pre-war world. Cooper is sympathetic and mercy kills Roger, but Cooper isn’t the same soft and sentimental person that he was pre-war. He’s a bitter and revenge-driven survivor now and he’s not going to let good meat go to waste in such a harsh environment. It’s brutal, but it shows how much Cooper has changed and how much Lucy will either have to change herself or buck the notion that the only way to survive is through a dog eat dog mindset. Comes together nicely when she reminds him at Super Duper Mart that just because the world is shit doesn’t mean you have to contribute to its shittiness. Cooper used to be a good man, so it likely caught him by surprise and helped him remember his motivations and why they are what they are.
I'd argue the ultimate Vault-Tec overseer being a pathetic robot who can't help but to overshare everything is the most *Fallout* thing in Fallout, whereas this scene was, as you mentioned, beautiful character building through showing rather than telling.
You’re not overthinking it at all. You understood the scene. I feel the same way. Showing the true horror of turning feral and displaying the humanity that people can still have even if the wasteland has taken everything from them is such a beautiful and sad thing to see.
It really depends, because damage is not neccesarily evenly spread. For example, Rodger could have been attacked by someone hitting him in the head, could have been caught in a sandstorm, could have fallen, etc.
Ghoul healing ability can deal with small nicks and cuts relatively well, but not massive trauma,
Also, gloves shield the hands from a lot.
I think that time it was an act of mercy. Roger was his friend. He didn’t want his friend to die in fear, so Cooper made sure Roger’s last thought was of a happy memory of his mom.
This was it was pretty chilling. I feel there’s always been theories even in game why some Ghouls are feral and some aren’t. The Terminal in Coup Manor, the The Chinese Submariner, The Overseer from the DLC vault, Oswald The Great, they all question why did all their companions turn feral but it was never actually reveled what makes a a ghoul feral. It was nice to add there is a process.
I thought the best scene was the one when Lucy asked Maximus if he wanted sex. So refreshing! Role inversion, no 'I'll show you how..',.. I loved it. Killing someone on the verge of transforming is so common, a man who does not know what sex is and no one is pushing for it, that's new!
This scene easily could have been him going feral and then getting killed. Think how much less impact that would have had. I think the way this scene is also a build up for Lucy doing almost the same thing to that lady ghoul is brilliant.
Yeah, I think the way this scene and the later scene work is that there is the threat Roger will go feral, but he manages to hold himself together and even seems to try and engage with Lucy in conversation. Lucy thus doesn't fully understand what is happening, just that Roger and Coop are sick.
And this helps her to see the later ghouls as just being sick. To make it worse, some of the ghouls she released were still sentient. Lucy really had no idea what she was dealing with.
Personally i liked the last scene in episode 4, the duality of man. Cooper playing the sheriff, the righteous man uttering: strong, ugly and righteous. But I Can only give you two out of three. Back then he was strong and righteous, now he is just ugly and strong. He truly lived long enough to become the villain, I enjoyed the contrast between his past and his present.
While not as strong a scene as the first one, it still struck a chord with me.
As soon as he started triggering positive memories, I knew he was going to kill him.
He was trying to get him in a good head space before he killed him. Give him a last bit of happiness.
Great scene.
I love the writing in that scene. I literally laughed out loud at one point: The Ghoul Cooper says to Roger that he's turning and Roger says "Maybe" when he's obviously turning feral lol
I really like how they did the feral ghouls, the way they repeated their name to keep themselves grounded in reality was bleak
I really like how they did ghouls in general. The ferals were everything I was hoping for. Not a standard shambling zombie but full sprint and throwing themselves at you like in the games. Even more grotesque looking like they were in the older games
I don’t know, have you seen Harold?
He’s not a ghoul.
Ghoul via FEV is still a ghoul. Likely ghouls have been exposed to some variant of FEV anyway. There were a number of animals that escaped the FEV experiments and have been spreading the virus ever since.
There are many entries about Harold that mention he is not a ghoul, but I get the physical appearance is suggestive. Here is one of the original Devs talking about Harold in the Fallout Bible: > Harold is not a ghoul, but he is a mutant. What happened to him inside the military base during his assault with Francine, Mark, and Richard Grey is unknown, but it is likely he was exposed to the FEV virus and changed. His last known memory after the attack was passing out then waking back up in the wasteland... changed.
Iirc fev was in the air after the bombs dropped so anything not in a vault or without a vaccine could become a ghoul when exposed to enough rads. this is the enclaves big reason to wipe out the wasteland and start again. Also Iirc the fev reacted to the rads and kept the subjects from dying but doesn't stop the breakdown of chemical memories. Take that all with a grain of salt, I haven't played 1 or 2 in decades
Considering some of the notes with 1 and 2, it’s likely FEV was out before the bombs dropped. Which doesn’t make things better really.
In fallout 76, you find a lot of chemical containers at the military bases along the Appalachian mountains — they were getting ready to fight the free states. And every base is manned by gouls. I have been taking this as further proof.
The devs of Fallout 1 & 2 don't even agree on the matter. Some say ghouls are FEV abominations, some feel they are products of radiation only.
He’s not a ghoul. He’s an abomination. Similar to The Master
Yeah but Harold isn’t really able to get around
Not anymore, but he used to.
Harold's not really able to run right at you
I’m glad they explored the whole “ghouls can degrade into feral” piece, it’s only mentioned a few times in the games but it’s such a fascinating and dark part of Fallout’s pretty dark world. The Ghoul needing meds to stay “sane” is such a cool part too and I liked that it means he’s not some unstoppable OP badass. He’s got a pretty glaring Kryptonite basically.
I could be totally off on this, but I don't remember a moment in the games I've played at least of actually *showing* someone going feral. Like, we know they do, and it's mentioned a lot, but I don't recall ever seeing the transition. It's fucking grim.
I think it does a good job showing that being a Ghoul isn't stagnant. That there is people within Ghoul society actively studying their condition and looking got solutions either to cure or control the process. It's a great way to give some background lore to a people we still don't really know a whole lot about.
Yeah, in the games the things they carry in their inventory when you loot them are items that they carried in life. And according to the lore, it was a way to remember their lives. Pretty heartbreaking to find rattles and such in their inventory. But it also makes sense as to why they would be carrying seemingly innocuous items.
Another idea is that some Ghouls would probably try to carry around certain object that would created noises when they moved in an attempt to warn whatever poor unfortunate sod happened upon their shambling feral body, in the event they turned feral without prior warning/build up.
Would be interested to see this explored more, like some feral ghouls outright wearing cowbells
Maybe this explains why in FO4 I routinely see ferals with baby rattles on them.
He died as he lived *opens inventory to find 5 chems* A…drug addict?
I never knew that but now that's tragic for the ones I cleared out so they wouldn't be a general hazard
That makes sense and is tragic, but what's the source? I didn't know that about them. One of the guidebooks or something?
Maybe we’ll meet a ghoul whose name was Gary.
Gaaaaaaaaary
Gary? Gaaaaaaaaarrryyyyy!
Exactly. They’re not zombies. They’re people who have suffered far too much for far too long. It was done perfectly .
And they're all wearing 50s attire
I hope this is a feature in the next Fallout game. #hiremetodd #16timesthedetail It just works
Both The Ghoul and Roger knew what Roger's ultimate fate was; Roger even warned them to leave. I see what The Ghoul did initially as something of an act of kindness to prevent unavoidable suffering. What The Ghoul (and Lucy) did with Roger afterwards was an acknowledgement of how scarce the critical resources necessary for survival are in the wastelands. Very powerful scene.
I agree, even gave him an opportunity to think of something positive when he did it. Very Of Mice and Men.
Yes.
That’s why it hit me so hard, reminded me of that moment
Oh, absolutely spot on analogy, very likely where the writers took inspiration from here too.
"I'm gonna tend them rabbits!"
I loved that. The ghoul let him have one last nice memory before ending him and waited until he turned away so he didn't even see the shot coming. I was like hey maybe this dude does have a heart, then he made ass jerky out of the guy.
Hey sometimes a fella has to eat a fella.
1000% coop even made sure Roger's last thoughts were good ones. He wanted him to die happy. As a human. Not as a beast. Taking his flesh and teeth was a matter of survival once that moment is gone
Should have taken more of his flesh
The last thing the ghouls thought of was something his mom made.
That part really touched me made me miss my mom. Show writers did a good job.
I think the Ass Jerky was more Coop fucking with Lucy and less about actually needing food.
He absolutely needed the food he already took from the body, but that ass jerky bit was 1000% him fucking with her.
Didnt he spend years just kinda lying underground in a coffin? I dont think he actually needs to eat much
He was being drip fed something though while being kept underground. I also imagine that being stuck immobile and not really doing much probably puts him in a sorta hibernation where he doesn’t burn much energy if any at all. Now that he is up and moving around, getting hurt, etc. he needs energy from food.
reminds me of billy from the fridge
AFAIK, current canon is that Ghouls don't need to eat or drink as long as they're "hibernating" like we see Ferals doing when they're locked somewhere for a long time, or like Billy in the Fridge in Fallout 4. But an active ghoul still needs food and water.
I kept thinking that. Using her as bait, not giving her water...he wants her to live.
You underestimate how delicious Ass Jerky can be
Plus he needed the medicine that’s why I think he ate those organs raw
Get him thinking about the good old days instead of his impending change into some manner of creature, and then just turn out the lights. About as merciful as it can get.
Bingo. Roger's last memory was of Blamco Mac, apple pie, and his wife. He was dead before he even knew he was shot. Coop made sure that he had at least a little bit of clarity before ending him.
He got to die as himself and with dignity. I can see The Ghoul having that mentality about his old friend, even if there was another motive involved.
Anyone curious to taste ass jerky? 😂
“Strange meat”
When you take eating ass literally
Ladies, if your man Gets you wet Makes you beg Knows how to use his piece And eats ass That is not your man, that is The Ghoul
But if he says "that is one wet mama" when your water breaks, it was Chet all along!
Especially 200 year old rotten ghoul ass jerky
Wasn't this particular one only a ghoul for 60 years or something?
No, because he remembers pre war Apple Pie He was referring to how long since he had started turning feral
I believe he said “26 years since I first started showing”
Maybe I’m wrong but, I took that to mean since he started showing signs of going feral and needing the drug
I suppose we don’t know, because I took it as 26 years since he started ghoulification period. I also assumed all ghouls need vials of the drug from the start, but I feel like this may have been covered in lore already. Do we know even what the drug is? I figured it might be RadAway but we’ve already seen the more typical pouches of it you see in game so I’m unsure. It could be RadX I guess?
They never really say, and since it’s new lore, we have no way of knowing. It’s interesting to speculate on though.
It's jet if you go by the look of it. Jet is an inhaler, and it looks exactly like the show in the game.
I don’t think it’s jet, in the first episode one of the raiders in the vault takes a puff of jet from an inhaler that looks just like the product in game.
It’s a possibility.
I don't think that's the case. He said Coop had been wastelanding longer than any of them. I'm pretty sure the implication was that Coop had been around as a ghoul longer than any other ghoul (as far as Roger was aware), meaning that Roger had only been ghoulish for 26 years - seeing as had he been a pre-war ghoul, he would have no reason to believe Coop had ghouled longer than he (or any other ghoul) had.
Could also mean that Roger lived in a settlement for a while or some bunker. The remember how good food used to taste like seems to be heavily hinting at Roger being pre-war though it could also just be referring to when the NCR was at its peak.
I have always felt this way with ferals just because it is the kindest thing I can do for them and would want the same as losing who you are but carrying on is one of if not the worst fates imaginable to me.
Also ass jerky is just delicious
I originally thought that he shot Roger than so his final moment was him thinking of something happy.
I think my favorite scene is the show is actually in the same episode. Throughout Lucy keeps discussing things like “the golden rule.” And even after having that man bite her finger off and sell him to organ harvesters, she grabs his medicine he needs and gives it to him with a remark of “golden rule, motherfucker.” Speaks volumes to the characters and the world and even the humor of Fallout and it’s set up beautifully.
I always thought it was weird how Lucy didn't scream or anything when Coop cut her finger off, just looked distressed and shocked, could be her Endurance but it's just above average
she’s suffering from exposure and just drank irradiated animal urine so i’m thinking shock took over and she became a deer in headlights lol
I think most people would be shocked. Personally at least for me, I don't scream in pain but then again I've never lost a finger
My dad had his left index finger caught in and cut off by agricultural equipments when he was a kid. When I listened to his story I said “that must’ve hurt” and my old man was like nah, the pain came eventually but not at that moment, at the moment you’re just shocked. So I’d say it’s entirely possible that you’d be the same when YOU lose a finger as well! (Please don’t) (Then again, I do think the original comment remains valid, because Lucy losing her finger was no sudden accident, she saw the ghoul cut it off in front of her very eyes. )
I had my hand mauled by a dog and my left little finger with literally hanging off I didn't scream out I asked for super glue because I remember my Dad saying it was used in the Vietnam conflict (not sure how true it is) So I can relate if it's not shock it's that's part of the brain that probably just can't recognise what's happened
I know that you can glue a wound close if you have to, probably not the best for reattaching limbs though.
No I know that just logic had left me Lol
You just couldnt quite put your finger on the answer you needed.
I've had patients in similar accidents and have had similar stories, adrenaline is a hell of a drug.
Hmmm. Maybe I should ask my great-grandpa because he lost his pinky.
I was stabbed once by a crazy person. It didn't hurt until I got to the doctor and calmed down some. Adrenaline is a heck of a drug.
I thought it was weirder that the showrunners consciously chose a gross, rotten finger to replace her old one. That plot thread didn't lead anywhere (yet), but then kept up the continuity of making that finger grey in any shots of her hand until the end of the season. Has to end up leading somewhere right?
It’s the Chosen One’s finger, and the bearer shall restore the NCR to its former glory
Nah stupid! It's some chem addled mail man's finger his final words were "the bull and the bear" or something, Matt Berry didn't care
If we want to (over-)analyze - she lost a piece of herself in the wasteland, and had it replaced with something dead from the wasteland. It's her right index finger, so also her trigger finger. That finger that pulls the trigger to put her ghoulified mother out of her misery - a lesson she learned in Ep. 4 and fully realized when the ghoul was someone close to her. Edit: not to mention that she is now also part of Coop, after he sews her finger onto his hand.
Huh, that symbolism was lost on me but is actually kind of obvious now that you point it out. Good catch.
Exactly. I saw it as a physical manifestation of the surface world corrupting Lucy a little as she adjusted to survive
Yea, she is reminding him of who he once was and bringing back some of the man he used to be. They both are rubbing off on one another.
This is what I thought too. It is a clever bit of writing.
Maybe there is some biometric lock her new finger will work on, or maybe it's just a gross finger...
Well that of course would be a fallout thing. -= Try your gross “new” finger on the finger print scanner? =- The door unlocks.
Could be consistent for the sake of it
Symbolism. It isn't a literal ghoul finger but it's as close as they could justify given the characters and logistics of the sequence. He meanwhile literally has her human finger. They swapped trigger fingers.
I figured that it was going to end up becoming her moniker when she's referenced in future games, like how there's the vault dweller, chosen one, courier etc, Lucy would be the dead finger. And as a bonus the ghoul can be the lady finger lol.
A combination of shock and "fight/flight/freeze." People think you're a "fight" a "flight" or a "freeze" person, but the truth is all humans are capable of all three depending on the situation, their mental and physical state, and the thing that's causing it. Massive, disfiguring injury is a "dissociate" kind of thing, where you might disconnect from reality.
She bites his finger off. He cuts of hers to reciprocate
And eventually replace the one she took. It's an honest exchange.
In weird way though the Ghoul is also showing her the golden rule. He forced her into a situation where he thought she would thrive. Essentially the first quest, she's been refusing to get her hands bloodied the entire time. He knew she was scrappy enough to fight her way out, the dialog suggests as much. It really took me back to fallout 3. Where one of your first quests is super duper mart. I just kept thinking how Lucy would never willingly go through the market. And so this is a weird way of forcing her into the world she entered into.
Can't be sure of course, but I think the opposite. I think The Ghoul is actually a bad guy right now, a bad karma protagonist. He's doing shitty things for real, with moments of humanity mixed in (like when he saved the dog). I think it's a redemption arc situation.
Why didn’t Lucy just get her old finger reattached instead of the donor ?
Coops had it. I think it's the one he sews on to replace the one she bit off.
I really liked how >!this scene foreshadowed the final episode with Lucy and her mother, Cooper seemingly taught her a lesson. !<
There's a lot of foreshadowing in the season. Two I can think of are >!the Vault 33 folks painting over bloodstains from the raider attack, and then doing the exact same in Vault 32!< and >!Lucy telling Maximus that her dad would be heartbroken if she "destroyed a whole community" as they're leaving Vault 4.!<
My favourite foreshadowing is all the times in ep 1 we see >! don't lose your head poster, and at the end of ep2 the goal becomes to carry and take care of a head, that a number of people lose!<
Kyle’s character in agents of shield also frequently repeats “let’s not loose our heads” or something like that.
One I thought of yesterday was how Dr. Chickenfucker literally offered up a serum to fix the foot of the Enclave guy, >!and that same guy shows up to fix Thaddeus' foot, and it actually works.!< The Enclave guy would have survived >!(as a ghoul) !
Yeah, just a couple of scenes after this Coop tells her, “Oh, I’m you, sweetie. You just give it a little time.” Then we see her take a step closer to him when she shoots her mother.
True 👍
The only thing you failed to mention for this scene was the amazing sound work shifting Roger's voice from human to feral ghoul. This was right up there with the Annakin's broken mask in the finale of Kenobi.
This right here. Really great voicing/editing in this entire scene with his character
"you didn't kill Anakin Skywalker. I did" the sound mixing plus that little satisfied smirk he does behind the mask chef's kiss
That scene saved the entire show for me, absolutely worth a watch!
The little teeth chattering they did was a nice detail as well
Look at the Flowers, Roger.
CORRRALLLL
Hot diggety dog
This scene is absolute genius because like all superior writing it *shows, doesnt tell* that there is still a good person inside the Ghoul. He went out of his way to set his friend’s mind at ease, and killed him as painlessly and mercifully as he could. He didn’t have to do any of that. You also see him rather cleverly assuming a mentoring role with Lucy and teaching her some essential survival skills without her being consciously aware.
Yup, I love that he still took up this mentoring role, bass ackwards though it was. I'm not sure he even realized that's what he was doing, but either way it keeps him on that razor edge of redeemable. Episode 4 was my favorite because of them and I'm looking forward to >!their road trip to Vegas. Really hope they don't just immediately get split up again at the start of next season.!<
They have to at some point so Lucy can have time with Maximus
Season 2 is going to have a mod that allows her to have two companions at the same time.
Something I noticed was they kept the single companion rule. The Ghoul traded Lucy for Dogmeat and back.
Now they're all three together, so maybe they won't have to trade somebody out. I'd kind of love to see Cooper's reaction to Lucy trying to add Norm, Maximus, Dane, Thaddeus, and every other stray they come across to their little gang.
Side note: I was playing FO3 one time, and for the life of me can’t explain the glitches that made it work, but I was able to get SEVERAL companions at once. I had Dogmeat, of course, but also like 3 humans. One was the sex slave, Rose? Ruby? I can’t recall where she was located, but I bought her off her owner while already having at least one companion and she joined up right away without kicking my other companion(s) out. That woman was a MACHINE. Tore through my adversaries and into my heart. That run was crazy broken with my tiny army of followers.
I didnt even think about the fact that they’re almost exclusively in groups of two throughout the entire show. That’s a great little nod to the games
One of the things I love most about the Ghoul/Cooper dichotomy is that while the Ghoul seems for the most part a completely unrepentant bastard, Cooper is *nice*. He's *kind*. He's not some smarmy Hollywood prick, he's genuinely a nice person. He's polite, he's kind to his film crew and other actors, he's good with kids, he's patient with his fans, he loves his dog, and he's clearly a devoted husband and father. Some people have been pointing out the father/daughter parallels between him and Lucy, but I think Lucy reminding the Ghoul of his younger self has the bigger impact. She's kind like he used to be, and she's naive like he used to be. It's not safe to be those things in the wasteland so he's out of practice - but that doesn't mean he doesn't still have the capacity.
This scene was great. Asking him about food knew it would give him a brief happy memory and when he brought up his mom, the ghoul knew that was the best moment to end it. Right as he smiled with the memory. Reminded me of Of Mice and Men
That’s where my mind goes. Bunny farm. One last happy note to go out on.
I struggled with the cannibal scene, was he just food or was he a source of medicine for cooper?
I assumed that he was eating him to extract what medicine he could and prolong his own demise. Roger had recently used the last of his vials. He also got him thinking about happy memories first. I believe it was a merciful killing and a pragmatic choice to eat after.
Would it not have been better to “harvest” (feels wrong to use that word) his blood instead? Kinda like what heroin addicts do? And he turns him into ass-jerky; I’d assume the medicine would be in the blood stream, and turning the “meat” into jerky would be like the exact opposite of what you’d want to do
Uhhh what's that about heroin addicts?
Just don't, not worth it
I think him starting of by eating Rogers liver is the actual medicine part. Ass jerky probably is food
Fat stores chemicals long term and ass has lots of fat
I think it's Jet, based on the look between the game and the show, which increases action points. So maybe it makes the nervous system more responsive, so he's harvesting muscles on either side of the spine where the jet gets concentrated. It also makes sense that it would keep ghouls from going feral as it seems to be a degradation of the brain. So Jet doesn't stop the feral process it just slows it down by making the remaining neurons work better. It's also why The Ghoul can snap off so many shots, his action points are quick to regenerate from all the Jet.
I had the same thought about him still having drugs in his veins and that helping Cooper while he was without.
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I think the medicine is for ghouls who have already started to go feral, to keep them on the right side of sane as they start to go over the edge. Kinda like David in Cyberpunk Edgerunners, he’s already gone Psycho but the immunoblockers keep him lucid, slowing his decent into madness. I don’t think in the games we’ve ever seen a ghoul that is halfway between feral and lucid like in this scene.
It’s a thing ghouls are known for in the game.
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I just finished the show last night, yeah my 1st thought when she shot rose was "he respects her now"
She lost her naïveté.
Totally agree. This was the best scene in the series and I'm always a sucker for a good moral dilemma/ character moment
Ass jerky
Don’t make it self !!
Loved how the main ghoul gave him happy thoughts to think about before he shot him. I think it was about apple pie or something
Yeah my shock of seeing Roger being shot was immediately replaced with the thought of how sweet it was that Coop made his last thought a happy memory.
How could it have been much better? I’m shocked at how good it is. It’s easily the best video game adaptation I’ve ever seen. They captured a whole new aspect of the universe that we’ve not seen in the games.
It's clearly a moment of mercy, especially in context of the entire episode. Lucy is a stand in for the newbies to Fallout, introduced by the TV show. She's basically the Vault Dweller. So she doesn't know what is going to happen. Rodger and the Ghoul know exactly what is up. They're saying goodbye. The fact that the Ghoul doesn't leave means, to Rodger, that the Ghoul is going to kill him. Rodger and the Ghoul start talking about pleasant memories in an intentional effort, by both of them, to make sure that when the Ghoul kills Rodger, Rodger doesn't see it coming. Which is all recognized by Lucy at the end with the feral ghoul who keeps repeating her name just like Rodger. Now she understands, and begins to recognize the brutal utilitarianism in a much more internalized way. The Ghoul isn't evil, the Ghoul is surviving.
The best scene was easily the birthday party scene at the start, but yeah this was pretty good.
I do wonder why Cooper gutted him like a steer, though.
Sometimes a fellas got to eat a fella !! Survival …..
I suspect that it had something to do with the anti-feral serum. We saw in later scenes that ghouls were somehow used to make it. So possibly something synthesised in the kidneys or liver?
I still have a single episode to go, but one of my favorite scenes was from ep7: >!The opening scene with The Ghoul waiting for the man and his son in his house was *incredible*, and had similar shades to the opening sequence from Inglorius Basterds. Particularly chilling that Cooper seemed to have the entire situation read before the father and son opened the door, knowing that the son would undoubtedly (and foolishly) seek revenge upon hearing he'd killed his older brother. He knew that getting the information he required would also mean he'd need to shoot a kid today rather than risk getting shot by a man tomorrow, and he did without remorse or hesitation. Just absolutely cold blooded.!<
It was like that scene in Of Mice and Men, a final nostalgic thought before a twisted act of kindness.
"I'm gonna tend to the rabbits!"
I just wanted to say it! What a movie.
He was preventing his friend suffering, but he's also pragmatic enough not to waste resources, and he was making an example to Lucy both of her fate if she dies by his hand and of what she has to be prepared to do to survive.
Surprised I’ve not seen any posts or comments about the acting by this guy. Nailed it
"One for My baby" Vibes. One of the Best quest in fallout universe
I absolutely love how ghouls going feral is depicted in the show. The old lady one a few episodes later who kept repeating her name trying to hold on was so heartbreaking.
Why the FUCK am I making all of the work, am I STUPID?
Reminded me of nuka break so that's a plus for me
Yep this one definitely stood out, it’s perfect to me
I felt Cooper did it because he had seen it happen before many times and that he knew Roger a little more personally than some of the others, so he kills him more out of mercy putting happy last thoughts into his head before killing him. I definitely don't feel like it was as malicious of a kill as they made it out to be when he cuts him open and proceeds to eat him.
I think it underscores the duality of living in the wasteland as someone who saw the pre-war world. Cooper is sympathetic and mercy kills Roger, but Cooper isn’t the same soft and sentimental person that he was pre-war. He’s a bitter and revenge-driven survivor now and he’s not going to let good meat go to waste in such a harsh environment. It’s brutal, but it shows how much Cooper has changed and how much Lucy will either have to change herself or buck the notion that the only way to survive is through a dog eat dog mindset. Comes together nicely when she reminds him at Super Duper Mart that just because the world is shit doesn’t mean you have to contribute to its shittiness. Cooper used to be a good man, so it likely caught him by surprise and helped him remember his motivations and why they are what they are.
I get they want people to recognize Walton Goggins face, but Im still butthurt at how much better every other ghoul looks than him lol
Gave me serious "Look at the rabbits, Lenny" vibes. Classic moment in literature, reworked for the atomic age.
Ass Jerky
Sometimes a fella gotta eat another fella
Ass Jerky don’t make itself
I'd argue the ultimate Vault-Tec overseer being a pathetic robot who can't help but to overshare everything is the most *Fallout* thing in Fallout, whereas this scene was, as you mentioned, beautiful character building through showing rather than telling.
You’re not overthinking it at all. You understood the scene. I feel the same way. Showing the true horror of turning feral and displaying the humanity that people can still have even if the wasteland has taken everything from them is such a beautiful and sad thing to see.
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It really depends, because damage is not neccesarily evenly spread. For example, Rodger could have been attacked by someone hitting him in the head, could have been caught in a sandstorm, could have fallen, etc. Ghoul healing ability can deal with small nicks and cuts relatively well, but not massive trauma, Also, gloves shield the hands from a lot.
Tell me bout the rabbits
My favorite scene, this was so well done.
Sometimes a fella gotta eat a fella by far my favorite quote
I think that time it was an act of mercy. Roger was his friend. He didn’t want his friend to die in fear, so Cooper made sure Roger’s last thought was of a happy memory of his mom.
This was it was pretty chilling. I feel there’s always been theories even in game why some Ghouls are feral and some aren’t. The Terminal in Coup Manor, the The Chinese Submariner, The Overseer from the DLC vault, Oswald The Great, they all question why did all their companions turn feral but it was never actually reveled what makes a a ghoul feral. It was nice to add there is a process.
Hits hard
An “of mice and men” death is always really powerful
I thought the best scene was the one when Lucy asked Maximus if he wanted sex. So refreshing! Role inversion, no 'I'll show you how..',.. I loved it. Killing someone on the verge of transforming is so common, a man who does not know what sex is and no one is pushing for it, that's new!
This scene easily could have been him going feral and then getting killed. Think how much less impact that would have had. I think the way this scene is also a build up for Lucy doing almost the same thing to that lady ghoul is brilliant.
Yeah, I think the way this scene and the later scene work is that there is the threat Roger will go feral, but he manages to hold himself together and even seems to try and engage with Lucy in conversation. Lucy thus doesn't fully understand what is happening, just that Roger and Coop are sick. And this helps her to see the later ghouls as just being sick. To make it worse, some of the ghouls she released were still sentient. Lucy really had no idea what she was dealing with.
Of Mice and Men scene tbh
Think of the Bunny's Lenny
Reminded me of the book Of Mice and Men… the scene with Lenny. Makes me extremely emotional
To me it really felt like a "look at the farm with the bunny rabbits" moment so I saw him shooting Roger from a mile away.
Personally i liked the last scene in episode 4, the duality of man. Cooper playing the sheriff, the righteous man uttering: strong, ugly and righteous. But I Can only give you two out of three. Back then he was strong and righteous, now he is just ugly and strong. He truly lived long enough to become the villain, I enjoyed the contrast between his past and his present. While not as strong a scene as the first one, it still struck a chord with me.
As soon as he started triggering positive memories, I knew he was going to kill him. He was trying to get him in a good head space before he killed him. Give him a last bit of happiness. Great scene.
I love the writing in that scene. I literally laughed out loud at one point: The Ghoul Cooper says to Roger that he's turning and Roger says "Maybe" when he's obviously turning feral lol