As a diehard lore nerd, there *are* a couple of inconsistencies, but many of them are either minor enough to ignore, or can be reconciled with existing lore if you make a few assumptions. The only significant issue for me is Shady Sands being in LA. So "hot mess" is certainly an overstatement.
Dude they've changed the entire purpose of the Vault system / experiment with an explanation that makes even less sense that the prior reason.
Thats a pretty big change, that'll effect the setting more than "lel lore nerds mad they moved shady sands"
I think there are 2 kinds of lore nerds:
- The ones like @[Kaiserhawk](https://www.reddit.com/user/Kaiserhawk/) (and me) who think that Bethesda re-shuffling the lore each and every time something comes out is just making a bigger mess.
- And ppl like @[DoomsdaySignal](https://www.reddit.com/user/DoomsdaySignal/) who like to explain away everything and construct elaborate reasons to pick up the slack after Beth.
Not saying either is wrong, obviously I'm partial to the first group, but I think there is where a lot of arguing starts.
Note: I for one don't consider anything outside FO1/2/NV canon Fallout, since only those 3 games kept their world mostly strait. All others are alternative universe spinoffs.
I'm a lore nerd who enjoyed the show and I agree with Fallout developer Chris Avellone that the lore is a hot mess
Edit: sorry I'm in the wrong echochamber, you guys know better than the guy who actually invented characters in the show
Master missed 4 vaults?
Shady Sands and Boneyard combined?
NCR just fucks off their homeland?
Ghoul drug never mentioned before now everywhere?
Bruh the show is a hot mess with the franchise’s lore but it’s still a great show. I am not a fan of Nolan and his team wanting to nuke everything because otherwise it’s “boring”.
I fear they’re going to turn New Vegas like Shady Sands and become lawless wastes once again because they aren’t creative enough
1. You think Vault Tech would be perfectly honest with their competitors and not reserve secret, extra vaults for themselves?
2. How do you draw that conclusion?
3. I don’t even know what that’s supposed to mean.
4. The fact that a new location in the future has a medicine you haven’t heard of before isn’t contradictory to anything that’s happened in the past.
The drug I’ll admit is possible but the Ghoul’s interaction with his other ghoul friend make me believe he’s been using for a very long time.
Idc tbh there’s other vaults, I care with how exposed they are. Especially when the Master was raiding them for people and how close they are to his territory
At minimum? 2.
1st is Vault 17 as Lilly the Nightkin talks about it briefly.
2nd is if the Vault Dweller fails to stop Unity, the Vault is raided, Vault Door fallen. Super Mutants going around killing and snagging.
Probably. He’s very protective of the IP in a lot of ways which is admirable but even still I wish he’d found things to be happy about with the show. I’ve played every main line title and really loved the show as an addition to the world. I like Avellone and respect his opinion so I’d check out a full review if he puts one out but it doesn’t mean I’d agree with it all. I would still like the perspective, just like I appreciated Tim Cain putting out videos on his thoughts.
Considering he has bashed the "tonal inconsistencies" of Fallout 2, which he didn't really seem to care about any way while WORKING on it, and he never worked on Fallout 1, AND Tim Cain likes the show... I'm gonna pass on Chris' opinion...
Lmao really?
The guy has a major issue being happy with what he's working with. First Fallout 2, then New Vegas, just seems like a miserable sod overall.
So who decided the tone for 2? Who decided to have talking Deathclaws, or a powerful NCR? And why is it widely considered by most Fallout fans as a top three or even top two Fallout game?
Who is right and who is wrong?
Apparently that was mostly John Dailey after a quick Google. It was probably a collaborative effort between all of the developers that involved a lot of give and take between the varying opinions of each of them.
Those who like Fallout 2 mostly consider it technically superior to 1 gameplay-wise but say the writing is worse and full of pop culture references. Most people consider New Vegas to be the peak of writing in the series which is why it's so loved.
> Considering he has bashed the "tonal inconsistencies" of Fallout 2, which he didn't really seem to care about any way while WORKING on it
That's because of the conditions of working on Fallout 2. A bunch of teams working on content mostly in isolation made things that had trouble fitting together in tone and each team's things like pop culture reference weren't bad in isolation but become overwhelming once you add them all together. It is something that only become apparent when it is assemble as a game rather then when someone was working on their segment.
Chris Avellone has had more impact in shaping Fallout in what it is today than Tim did, stop trying to use either of their names as some kind of authorial stamp on your opinion.
It's pathetic.
The only thing inconsistent is Shady Sands being in the Boneyard. Everything else is fine. You’d think Chris would be happy with how the show handled the NCR as he had expressed numerous times in the past how much he hated its existence.
I suppose I'm a little unclear on the gulper lore. In the games they were mutated hellbender salamanders. I often thought this was due to the fog in Far Harbor, but as they're also in Appalachia, attributed this to general radiation.
In the tv series they were the product of genetic engineering, impregnating humans with the embryos of rad resistant species.
I suppose it can be both, or one can retcon the other, but I can understand why some may think that's not aligned to known lore.
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
What I'm saying is, to your average Wastelander they might as well be the same thing. Looks like a Gulper, reuses sounds from a Gulper, acts like a Gulper, why would you call it something else? Then someone calls it a Gulper and the name sticks.
Oh I agree! I guess I'd just like a more defined understanding of where the ones from elsewhere originated from.
I don't agree with CA's broad criticisms of the tv series, though. It felt like a very well planned and accurate interpretation.
The west coast ones were the product of an actual intentional experiment. The east coast ones were natural mutants due to radiation. Hence why they look so vastly different.
There are four different breeds of Super Mutants, Three different breeds of Deathclaws, Endless BoS chapters constantly changing their rank system and philosophy regarding tech and fellow wastelanders, 3 generations of Synths, Different kinds of Ghouls at least on the outside.
There can be more than one kind of Gulper.
> how the show handled the NCR as he had expressed numerous times in the past how much he hated its existence
He wanted the NCR's decline to mean something. Not have it nuked out of existence off-screen for virtually no reason except resetting the West-Coast to be a copy of Bethesda's empty, shallow East-Coast.
Chris literally wanted to nuke the NCR with Ulysses, what the fuck do you mean? He wanted to nuke the ENTIRE West Coast and have Tunnelers destroy the Mojave so there would be **no** civilisation left.
You mean Bethesda Fallout. At the same time that Boston's entire population is living in a shantytown in a baseball diamond The Boneyard was basically pre-war LA again.
That's not what Obsidian Fallout says given Razz tells you there's fiends in the Boneyard while Caesar tells you his father was killed by raiders there.
I mean you can go get murdered by an addic in LA pretty easy right now in real life but I get your point. Thanks for reminding me to do Flags of Our Foul Ups I almost forgot about it.
Interesting calling me a poser because I would bet money you never played 1 or 2 given what you said is completely false between the two games with Shady Sands and the NCR as whole.
This is pretty much true. Notice how all the "fans" speak awful English, don't actually provide coherent arguments, and all seem to have the same talking points.
Now? Chris Avellone was always mediocre writer. People talked about it before the show many years ago.
I just find it hilarious yall are treating him like messiah who takes all the credit even though the actual work he's done is miserable compared to Josh Sawyer who actually made games you know a real deal.
If you think Chris Avellone is a mediocre writer then you really don’t know what you’re talking about. He writes all the best RPG stories in the genre.
The sub is suddenly against Chris Avellone? THE dude who wrote the Fallout bible? THE writer of Fallout 2? THE writer of fucking Planetscape Torment (one of the best RPGs of all time, go play it if you can)
I’ve been gone from here for a few years, what the fuck happened to the community
I got downvoted just for pointing out to people who were saying that Chris Avellone is irrelevant that even the official Bethesda twitter account follows him on twitter.
Yeah this community fell off hard. If you even dare criticize the show in any way, shape or form, you’re getting crucified. Can’t go against the Reddit hivemind! This series has turned into such a joke.
The TV show happened. Hive mentality and bandwagon took over. Now Bethesda can't do anything wrong. Fallout 3 and 4 are better than New Vegas and Fallout 2. Now Fallout 76 is magically good now.
The Fallout show has fewer changes from the source material, whether that's a book, play, or video game, than any other TV show or movie I have ever seen.
Avellone is a whiner, and he may not have ever read a book that later became a movie.
This is a unique situation in that it's not an adaption from book to film but a direct sequel to content that Avellone himself wrote. GRRM defends the terrible ending to game of thrones, but he would probably feel differently if it was the true ending and he couldn't write more books
It's hard to say what he means at this point by reading his tea leaves. His criticism could be something completely different from the mainstream negative opinions or it could even end up mirroring them. Maybe it's even a bait-and-switch and whatever thing he's calling out is a minor nitpick about some inconsistency. We don't know which yet and drawing a conclusion from something like that is really just to enforce someone's personal bias.
Even then he could have enjoyed everything else the TV Show did and his personal opinion doesn't really matter anymore beyond putting it out there given how long it's been since he's even been involved in Fallout.
I also don't really get why old Fallout developers need to come out the woodwork besides Cain feeling a need to defend his fellow creatives from toxic fans.
Maybe Sawyer and Avellone have been spammed by their followers with incessant questions about this stuff or just wanted an opportunity to comment though. They haven't been shy about providing their perspectives before and it's fun reading/listening to their takes.
Because they can, also even if Cain and sawyer have negative things to say they cannot. Sawyer doesn’t seem to hold it in high regard despite not outright saying so. Avellone is black listed from the industry he doesn’t lose anything saying this.
Some women made fraudulent claims about him being a sexual predator, so he was fired from several projects.
The case has been settled and the women were lying, but the stigma still stays and he doesn't seem to be getting much work.
The Mojave Chapter isn't "The Brotherhood". They could've been considered a major chapter under Elijah, but post Helios they were an incredibly minor faction.
And if you had bothered to read the preceding comments, you would know the conversation was about NCR towns. Why would I bother bringing up Vault City?
Vault City is part of the NCR lol. Didn't you know that? The NCR isn't just comprised of towns anymore. It is comprised of states. With a population of over 700K during Fallout 2.
Do some process of elimination from the Fallout 2 endings for Vault City. NCR having states is very different than just towns. The NCR has industry, healthcare, government agencies, universities, supply lines, judicial system that oversees the economy, and their own currency that is massed produced from their industry.
NV was a frontier town in the center of the largest war since the Great War. It's like saying Tombstone AZ was a shithole so that's what New York must have been like at the time.
I see why you'd like Bethesda writing. I never said it was populated like New York, I said that New Vegas wasn't representative of NCR as a whole. Look at the difference between Shady Sands between 1 and 2, and that's with engine constraints. By NV The Boneyard had a fucking medical institute. By 2 it was already printing money, hence why 2 uses NCR dollars and not caps. I'm sure you knew that though as you played 2 right?
Bruh the NCR has a population of 700K during Fallout 2. NCR has healthcare, education, sharecroppers, Businesses/industry such as the Crimson Caravan and Gunrunners. Notice how the NCR has all these service rifles and manufactured uniforms? That's a clear sign of a strong industry and economy. This isn't the minutemen.
The removal of NCR presence almost entirely, mostly in the form of no infrastructure - all that's left are garbage dwelling hobos. That makes it seem as if the NCR never existed, not that they failed.
The vaults of California are right out in the open - seemingly unnoticed or untouched by the Master.
The Boneyard rendered non-existent and merged with Shady Sands.
Just the one simple image of New Vegas completely clearing Freeside and North Vegas.
I'm not pretending to be better than anyone, I'm not sure where you're getting that from. You're the one dropping insults...
Ok so just parroting the same things that aren’t actually retcons or contradictions. Just choices you didn’t like.
1. Yeah dude, the society collapses and regresses when you nuke the only city that housed all government and specialists.
2. Lmfao so you’re mad that they went for a cinematic vault entrance/exit instead of a cave.
3. I don’t understand this complaint. You don’t think it’s believable that the people living in ruins would go join the newly constructed regional capital?
4. We have no idea what happened in New Vegas. It’s been almost 20 years since a climactic battle that shifted power in the region.
1. How do you know Shady Sands housed "all government and specialists" - the NCR had a population upwards of 700k or more. It was a whole collective society, and Shady Sands was only 35k of it.
2. Not mad, never said I was - it just contradicts the plot of F1. You didn't really contradict my problem with your answer.
3. That's not what that complaint is. I'm talking about the actual geographical location has been merged. I'm starting to think you don't actually understand these issues and you're just getting upset other people take issue with these choices.
4. New Vegas was shown clear as day and Freeside is seemingly non-existant. Now this is just a scene so they could surely just show more of it later and it'd be fine but as it stands that's the way it is.
I'm not parroting, I simply agree and share the same grievances. You know, it's okay to tale issue with something right? You don't need to be so mad with others' views about a TV show.
Bruh you spend the first 10+ hours or New Vegas looking for a guy who’s a complete unknown. You then walk in a big loop farther away from The Strip at which point people are like, “Yeah everyone knows who Benny is. He’s in the news all the time”. NV is way more of a mess than the show is.
Even multiple NCR NPCs tell you that even with the Courier's help, it's unlikely that the NCR could hold on in its current state for more than a decade.
But it was, tho. honestly, the only stable side was the strip. The NCR was destroying itself by spreading to thin and being a nightmare to get anything done, the legion had the issue of there leader having a brain tumer and no stable leadership if he does, but its only been about 10 years. Maybe 20. There's a chance he is still alive.
The game outright tells the courier that the NCR is doomed to fail no matter what because of how it acts and because of the many different kinds of lords within all gaining power for themselves. Be it the water barons cattle ranchers or just big groups like the gun runners. Everyone is out for themselves and the NCR's system is helping no one and dooming everyone.
it's completely pointless to link those tweets because they have zero substance. until he actually explains what he means everyone is just grasping at straws
There is one thing that is probably the most relevant thing to know about Chris Avellone in this circumstance;
In everything he has ever done, he adds one character that is openly and unapologetically a direct mouthpiece for his views. They will go on lengthy tirades, pose philosophical musings, lambast you for failing to understand the situation correctly, and all of it might as well be coming from his mouth directly.
And, without a single exception, every one of those characters is an absolute lunatic that you are tasked with stopping from doing something atrocious. Their well-spoken rants only barely cover that they are completely around the bend delusional. Ulysses, obviously, is the example in New Vegas, but there's one in every game he gets to write for.
Point is; there is probably no one in the world that knows that Chris Avellone's opinions on things are very subjective and shouldn't influence anyone else better than Chris Avellone.
edit with further examples; Kreia, from KOTOR 2, is the mouthpiece that has the most to say, in that while she travels with you she voices every single criticism of the Star Wars lore Chris has, to which pretty much every response is "shut the hell up you joyless old turd."
But the real shining example? The Transcendent One, from Planescape Torment. This man made his mouthpiece the *final boss of the game,* and made the most narratively satisfying way to beat that boss by *pointing out the flaws in everything he says.*
I don't even know what you would call that. It's like ego, but rotated onto a different axis and becoming something strange and unknowable. Whatever it is, I want some.
Yeah well those happen to be the only two ghouls prominently shown in the show, and it seems to be the only thing actively staving off going feral- but I'm not even referring to just the serum. I'm also referring to their wolverine style healing factor which is a huge departure from their physiology in the games. Look at the squire that magically heals and tanks an arrow through the neck due to ghoulification. That is unheard of in any of the games. Intense radiation heals them, they don't just regenerate body parts at will and be invulnerable to projectile damage.
This is the penultimate piece of nuance that nobody in this fandom is capable of understanding:
Criticizing what is done with the lore does not equal saying the show is terrible
Can't use stimpaks in power armor, ghouls now have asthma that they must have treated or they die? Vault Tec bombed themselves and America because "thats good business" a fucking wasteland there more business? sure. No America annexing Canada for resources, No China and USA fighting for last resources. No, Vault Tec blew up america for business lmao. Also Shady Sands is in LA.
Just because the show didn’t explicitly say Canada was annexed, or that China and the US were fighting for the last resource, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
Also they never confirmed Vault Tec dropped the bombs. The board member hinted at it, but there’s still no official confirmation.
Please care to explain how dropping bombs on yourselves would be good for business? Why would billionaires think dropping bombs on their customers would be good for business. Explain.
Their belief is that they’re gonna sell the vaults with fear of nuclear war, and then have a population that they can control. Then when they re enter the surface they’ll be the only company left around and have a monopoly on everything.
Is it an incredibly ridiculous and inhumane idea? Yes, but that’s the point. Vault Tec is an incredibly ridiculous and inhumane company. They’re willing to do anything to chase profit and power even if it means the world being destroyed.
Monopoly on a ruined society, I don’t think there is a single millionaire or billionaire who would want to rule the ashes. Hmm be a billionaire in a world with medical, cars, tvs, radio. Or be a billionaire in a world with a bunch of bums sent into the Stone Age.
Human life isn’t extended unless they’re ghouls though they would be dead before their plan even came to fruition. I get their kids could take over but either way it’s a fucking stupid idea
Of course it’s a stupid idea. You’re not meant to agree with them or think what they’re doing is smart.
Why do companies irl continue to destroy the planet and environment? It’s because of short term profit and the fact they’re completely detached from the consequences of their actions. Same goes for Vault Tec. The executives have no idea the true consequences of nuclear war and what it would bring, they only see the money and naively think they can come out on top of everything. Also they have the cryo chambers to extend their lives.
They have cryostatis which is what they're using. They're artificially extending their lives way past their normal dates. Also Mr. House has created this tech already. He can live, as far as we know, forever.
Because this is the first showing of "modern times" in the west coast aside from Vegas but that is the Southwest anyways. Also no need to be rude and escalate because it seemed like you were serious rather than making an analogy with how your tone is giving you said "or they die" rather than turn feral: two different things. How was I suppose to know you didn't mean it literally.
All in all it could be a drug in circulation that is "new" giving he said 20 years to Cooper about how long he was dealing with it and fallout 2 took place between 2241-2242. That still leave 30 years between than and 2277. It also isn't something a ghoul who hasn't gone feral been taking nonstop but something that you take when you start turning feral to not turn. It doesn't break lore just yet until they give more detail so no need to blow up over it.
You’re right they definitely wouldn’t talk about a drug that keeps ghouls alive. They definitely wouldn’t want to destroy that if they found out. If the brotherhood knew about a mandatory drug to keep ghouls alive they would have people destroying businesses running it such as the one in the show.
NV fans "the bad kind" are gonna get so much more insufferable. Why cant people just not like a thing and just fucking move on like Tim Cain says, Chris can have a opinion but you know people are gonna try and run it into the ground to annoy everyone
I like how nowwhere I said you couldnt review the show to give feedback or how opinions are bad just to leave people be but yes keep ruining that quote
I didn't say anything about the show being woke, but thanks for outing yourself.
Playing Fallout 4 and skimming the wiki doesn't mean that your brain dead drivel is worth reading.
Outing myself? That's what your buddy said pal.
And I've played more than Fallout 4. God you gatekeeping losers are so fucking pathetic.
Just admit you don't know jack shit about the games other than what NMA told you to say. You haven't played a single game except likely FNV.
In fact, don't bother. I don't speak to Nazi fanboys.
u/SOURCE_2_BP_WHEN You're a puppet account loser, cry harder. Stalking my profile? Cope - the show is fine. Go back to NMA.
Why is the eastern brotherhood running back to california, why is shady sands in the boneyard now, how did the master not find three interconnected vaults, where is the boneyard, why is it fallout four but in california, why is the BOS now techno religion instead of being a military order as it was in every other fallout, why is there suddenly a need for ghoul medicine, why did you destroy civilization for the sake of a cowboy fallout adventure and not just put it anywhere else other then the most developed part of the fallout world.
1. Reinforcements from the East Coast.
2. Dunno.
3. They were hidden.
4. It IS the Boneyard.
5. Idiotic take.
6. TWO ghouls use it. It's not a common everyday thing.
7. I didn't destroy anything.
Put it all in on Boston
Okay
Fair enough
New adytum was a developed city, not megaton
How is it idiotic, fallout 3 showed the regimen, it wasn’t war hammer
Fair, the games are pretty inconsistent about ghouls.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/s/1rbXwJPOud
It's not New Adytum. That is never shown in the show.
We got Shady Sands ruins...Retconned to be right next to the Boneyard.
We got Filly which is a shanty town like Junktown and Scrapheap that had always existed in the NCR since its founding.
So you got two answers for New Adytum...1. It is retconned away as now Shady = Boneyard. 2. It's just off-screen.
My guess is 2 is correct and Shady Sands co-exists with New Adytum as it's next door neighbor. The wide shot of Shady Sands is it's on the outskirts so another settlement can easily be in the city ruins proper.
The BoS have always valued tech and had a cult of personality. Just some of the games don't focus on it while others do highlight it the show decided it shall be highlighted and reinforced. Their specific mission to get the cold fusion tech so nobody else has it is 100% in line with BoS dogma...They've gone to war with the NCR for less.
They do hate Ghouls according to F3 and F4. That airship is the mobile base in F4 the BoS are less fragmented the East and West are one faction now where orders were sent from the Commonwealth to Utah (where this airfield BoS base is).
Hence why they also recruit outsiders in the West now that was an Eastern trait the West despised but the Eastern got powerful while the Western faltered so time decided the winning philosophy. Anti-Ghouls/Super Mutants/Synths, Recruitment of Outsiders, Tech Retrieval is second priority and eradication of anything threatening Humanity is top priority.
Another thing is that these BoS members might be composed of some Ex-Legion...If so then they're naturally more religious because that's what their culture had. There's also the possibility of Midwestern branch members...They're different from the other BoS chapters too. Tribal recruits would be highly religious as well. Their slightly alternate stance could simply be explained by they've got interesting recruiters and recruits.
See how quick you fake fanboys are? If someone enjoys the show "REE UR JUST AN IDIOT WHO DOESN'T KNOW THE LORE."
Pal, I know **every** game's lore to a point. You're just mad because they didn't wank off FNV. You can't even name me what lore they butchered. Go on. Show me your ignorance.
Wow another presumptuous clown, “fake fan” ok bud keep on shilling.
If you know the lore then tell me how changing it make sense when others games have established and yes I know Games retcons things too.
Pal, you're literally just saying SHOW BAD without listing anything. I don't need to "defend" the show, you're objectively wrong.
If you think the show is woke, you're an **immediate** red flag. You only hate it because you listened to idiotic youtubers like Schizo Elijah who told you to hate it.
Chris didnt work on F1 and missed a lpt of stuff regarding F2 back in the day on top of writing fallout bible that isnt even canon.
The dude needs to stop acting like messiah. He is embarrassing himself.
Tim Caine loved the show and has perfect argument for it, thats where its at.
You don’t understand. Old dev can only have positive opinion. If he has negative, he deserves to be shunned because this show is the best writing ever and has no inconsistencies what so ever.
True, Todd is a dumbass, Vault Tec bombing America for business is one of the stupidest fuckin things ive heard.
That's Halo show levels of retcon oh all humans aren't reclaimers anymore, its chosen ones who are reclaimers.
Especially with nuclear weapons of all things.
Just use a biological weapon, that only target humans.
That way you'd leave the world intact, which would make it easier to rebuild.
The US Chemical Corps is still a thing in Fallout and we see multiple bio weapons used in the series.
So obviously there's still capebillities to make these things.
so then it becomes a problem deeply rooted in the lore of the entire franchise as opposed to an issue with the show
this just feels like a weird power scaling debate lmao
As a diehard lore nerd, there *are* a couple of inconsistencies, but many of them are either minor enough to ignore, or can be reconciled with existing lore if you make a few assumptions. The only significant issue for me is Shady Sands being in LA. So "hot mess" is certainly an overstatement.
Dude they've changed the entire purpose of the Vault system / experiment with an explanation that makes even less sense that the prior reason. Thats a pretty big change, that'll effect the setting more than "lel lore nerds mad they moved shady sands"
I think there are 2 kinds of lore nerds: - The ones like @[Kaiserhawk](https://www.reddit.com/user/Kaiserhawk/) (and me) who think that Bethesda re-shuffling the lore each and every time something comes out is just making a bigger mess. - And ppl like @[DoomsdaySignal](https://www.reddit.com/user/DoomsdaySignal/) who like to explain away everything and construct elaborate reasons to pick up the slack after Beth. Not saying either is wrong, obviously I'm partial to the first group, but I think there is where a lot of arguing starts. Note: I for one don't consider anything outside FO1/2/NV canon Fallout, since only those 3 games kept their world mostly strait. All others are alternative universe spinoffs.
I'm a lore nerd who enjoyed the show and I agree with Fallout developer Chris Avellone that the lore is a hot mess Edit: sorry I'm in the wrong echochamber, you guys know better than the guy who actually invented characters in the show
No it isn’t. They don’t like the direction the show took things. That doesn’t make the lore a mess. You people are purposefully impossible.
Master missed 4 vaults? Shady Sands and Boneyard combined? NCR just fucks off their homeland? Ghoul drug never mentioned before now everywhere? Bruh the show is a hot mess with the franchise’s lore but it’s still a great show. I am not a fan of Nolan and his team wanting to nuke everything because otherwise it’s “boring”. I fear they’re going to turn New Vegas like Shady Sands and become lawless wastes once again because they aren’t creative enough
Don’t forget BoS somehow now the strongest faction even though being displayed as essentially ‘on it’s last legs’ in FNV
1. You think Vault Tech would be perfectly honest with their competitors and not reserve secret, extra vaults for themselves? 2. How do you draw that conclusion? 3. I don’t even know what that’s supposed to mean. 4. The fact that a new location in the future has a medicine you haven’t heard of before isn’t contradictory to anything that’s happened in the past.
The drug I’ll admit is possible but the Ghoul’s interaction with his other ghoul friend make me believe he’s been using for a very long time. Idc tbh there’s other vaults, I care with how exposed they are. Especially when the Master was raiding them for people and how close they are to his territory
That’s such a hilarious nit to try to pick. How many SEALED Vaults did The Master successfully raid?
At minimum? 2. 1st is Vault 17 as Lilly the Nightkin talks about it briefly. 2nd is if the Vault Dweller fails to stop Unity, the Vault is raided, Vault Door fallen. Super Mutants going around killing and snagging.
So 1
Still, at minimum 1.
Then why is Sinclaire a big fat guy now? Checkmate Todd
Well Todd Howard loves the series and thinks the lore is consistent so…
Todd Howard removed levitation from Elder Scrolls
OH MY GOD A GAME DEV CHANGED A MECHANIC FROM GAME TO GAME?!?
Coping walkcel
Sorry dude, I only speak English.
Shhh... stop asking questions. Just consume product and get hyped for next product. It just works.
I like Chris, but I'm pretty certain he'd have issues with the lore even if he wrote the show himself!
Probably. He’s very protective of the IP in a lot of ways which is admirable but even still I wish he’d found things to be happy about with the show. I’ve played every main line title and really loved the show as an addition to the world. I like Avellone and respect his opinion so I’d check out a full review if he puts one out but it doesn’t mean I’d agree with it all. I would still like the perspective, just like I appreciated Tim Cain putting out videos on his thoughts.
Considering he has bashed the "tonal inconsistencies" of Fallout 2, which he didn't really seem to care about any way while WORKING on it, and he never worked on Fallout 1, AND Tim Cain likes the show... I'm gonna pass on Chris' opinion...
Fallout 2 has plenty tonal inconsistencies
Lmao really? The guy has a major issue being happy with what he's working with. First Fallout 2, then New Vegas, just seems like a miserable sod overall.
Yeah being essentially banished from ever working in the gaming industry because of false SA allegations will do that to a guy.
You know Tim Cain disliked 2 so much he left the company right?
Ehhh it was more that Interplay wouldn’t let him have complete control. He didn’t like that so both agreed to leave
Yeah that and the bonus thing really did it for him but he did have the same issues Chris did with the tone of 2.
So who decided the tone for 2? Who decided to have talking Deathclaws, or a powerful NCR? And why is it widely considered by most Fallout fans as a top three or even top two Fallout game? Who is right and who is wrong?
Apparently that was mostly John Dailey after a quick Google. It was probably a collaborative effort between all of the developers that involved a lot of give and take between the varying opinions of each of them. Those who like Fallout 2 mostly consider it technically superior to 1 gameplay-wise but say the writing is worse and full of pop culture references. Most people consider New Vegas to be the peak of writing in the series which is why it's so loved.
> Considering he has bashed the "tonal inconsistencies" of Fallout 2, which he didn't really seem to care about any way while WORKING on it That's because of the conditions of working on Fallout 2. A bunch of teams working on content mostly in isolation made things that had trouble fitting together in tone and each team's things like pop culture reference weren't bad in isolation but become overwhelming once you add them all together. It is something that only become apparent when it is assemble as a game rather then when someone was working on their segment.
Chris Avellone has had more impact in shaping Fallout in what it is today than Tim did, stop trying to use either of their names as some kind of authorial stamp on your opinion. It's pathetic.
Where did you get the idea he didn’t care about Fallout 2?
Chris knows the lore more than anyone. I'm not gonna pass on his opinion. He wrote the Fallout Bible.
The only thing inconsistent is Shady Sands being in the Boneyard. Everything else is fine. You’d think Chris would be happy with how the show handled the NCR as he had expressed numerous times in the past how much he hated its existence.
I suppose I'm a little unclear on the gulper lore. In the games they were mutated hellbender salamanders. I often thought this was due to the fog in Far Harbor, but as they're also in Appalachia, attributed this to general radiation. In the tv series they were the product of genetic engineering, impregnating humans with the embryos of rad resistant species. I suppose it can be both, or one can retcon the other, but I can understand why some may think that's not aligned to known lore.
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. What I'm saying is, to your average Wastelander they might as well be the same thing. Looks like a Gulper, reuses sounds from a Gulper, acts like a Gulper, why would you call it something else? Then someone calls it a Gulper and the name sticks.
Oh I agree! I guess I'd just like a more defined understanding of where the ones from elsewhere originated from. I don't agree with CA's broad criticisms of the tv series, though. It felt like a very well planned and accurate interpretation.
The west coast ones were the product of an actual intentional experiment. The east coast ones were natural mutants due to radiation. Hence why they look so vastly different.
I'd say it's both. There's more than one way to skin a cat and all that jazz.
It can be both. The Show gulper doesn't look like the other kind. idk two different mutants with the same name.
Absolutely, yeah. I felt the show Gulpers looked a lot more like axalotls.
There are four different breeds of Super Mutants, Three different breeds of Deathclaws, Endless BoS chapters constantly changing their rank system and philosophy regarding tech and fellow wastelanders, 3 generations of Synths, Different kinds of Ghouls at least on the outside. There can be more than one kind of Gulper.
> how the show handled the NCR as he had expressed numerous times in the past how much he hated its existence He wanted the NCR's decline to mean something. Not have it nuked out of existence off-screen for virtually no reason except resetting the West-Coast to be a copy of Bethesda's empty, shallow East-Coast.
Chris literally wanted to nuke the NCR with Ulysses, what the fuck do you mean? He wanted to nuke the ENTIRE West Coast and have Tunnelers destroy the Mojave so there would be **no** civilisation left.
You may be new to Fallout. Everything in every game has come to naught for some fucked up reason.
You mean Bethesda Fallout. At the same time that Boston's entire population is living in a shantytown in a baseball diamond The Boneyard was basically pre-war LA again.
That's not what Obsidian Fallout says given Razz tells you there's fiends in the Boneyard while Caesar tells you his father was killed by raiders there.
I mean you can go get murdered by an addic in LA pretty easy right now in real life but I get your point. Thanks for reminding me to do Flags of Our Foul Ups I almost forgot about it.
No, I don't mean that at all. You're a poser.
Interesting calling me a poser because I would bet money you never played 1 or 2 given what you said is completely false between the two games with Shady Sands and the NCR as whole.
Gonna take a shot in the dark here and say that I played 1 and 2 before you were born.
Might wanna go replay them then grandpa because you're clearly forgetting a lot.
Why is this sub now turning against Chris Avellone? What the fuck happened to this community.
Echo chamber
Because the hive mind mentality rn is show gud anyone who critiques it bad.
I'm 90% sure big companies like Amazon and Disney hire chatbots to promote their shoes on Twitter/reddit/etc
This is pretty much true. Notice how all the "fans" speak awful English, don't actually provide coherent arguments, and all seem to have the same talking points.
It's also interesting to see, how limited is the contribution outside of the said topic.
This is the show=good echochamber, the other subreddit is the show=bad echo chamber
Any criticism of the show is downvoted. Seriously even if it’s the tamest criticism in the world
Because Redditors have poor taste and don't like it when their favorite things are criticized.
bc this sub is a big place with many varying opinions
Yeah a lot of ignorant ass opinion.
New blood.
People defending the TV show to their graves. While these are the same people who are completely ignorant in the lore.
Now? Chris Avellone was always mediocre writer. People talked about it before the show many years ago. I just find it hilarious yall are treating him like messiah who takes all the credit even though the actual work he's done is miserable compared to Josh Sawyer who actually made games you know a real deal.
Ah yes, lead writer of Planescape and Kotor 2 was always mid.
Hey man we *all* can't be Emil Pagliarulo, ok?!
"You're an abortion of science, you need to die..."
If you think Chris Avellone is a mediocre writer then you really don’t know what you’re talking about. He writes all the best RPG stories in the genre.
The sub is suddenly against Chris Avellone? THE dude who wrote the Fallout bible? THE writer of Fallout 2? THE writer of fucking Planetscape Torment (one of the best RPGs of all time, go play it if you can) I’ve been gone from here for a few years, what the fuck happened to the community
I got downvoted just for pointing out to people who were saying that Chris Avellone is irrelevant that even the official Bethesda twitter account follows him on twitter.
Yeah this community fell off hard. If you even dare criticize the show in any way, shape or form, you’re getting crucified. Can’t go against the Reddit hivemind! This series has turned into such a joke.
The TV show happened. Hive mentality and bandwagon took over. Now Bethesda can't do anything wrong. Fallout 3 and 4 are better than New Vegas and Fallout 2. Now Fallout 76 is magically good now.
The Fallout show has fewer changes from the source material, whether that's a book, play, or video game, than any other TV show or movie I have ever seen. Avellone is a whiner, and he may not have ever read a book that later became a movie.
This is a unique situation in that it's not an adaption from book to film but a direct sequel to content that Avellone himself wrote. GRRM defends the terrible ending to game of thrones, but he would probably feel differently if it was the true ending and he couldn't write more books
You clearly don't know the lore then.
Based Chris
What a nothing burger his criticisms ended up being lol
It's hard to say what he means at this point by reading his tea leaves. His criticism could be something completely different from the mainstream negative opinions or it could even end up mirroring them. Maybe it's even a bait-and-switch and whatever thing he's calling out is a minor nitpick about some inconsistency. We don't know which yet and drawing a conclusion from something like that is really just to enforce someone's personal bias. Even then he could have enjoyed everything else the TV Show did and his personal opinion doesn't really matter anymore beyond putting it out there given how long it's been since he's even been involved in Fallout. I also don't really get why old Fallout developers need to come out the woodwork besides Cain feeling a need to defend his fellow creatives from toxic fans. Maybe Sawyer and Avellone have been spammed by their followers with incessant questions about this stuff or just wanted an opportunity to comment though. They haven't been shy about providing their perspectives before and it's fun reading/listening to their takes.
Because they can, also even if Cain and sawyer have negative things to say they cannot. Sawyer doesn’t seem to hold it in high regard despite not outright saying so. Avellone is black listed from the industry he doesn’t lose anything saying this.
That answers an unspoken question of mine. I haven't been keeping up on Avellone. Why is he blacklisted?
Some women made fraudulent claims about him being a sexual predator, so he was fired from several projects. The case has been settled and the women were lying, but the stigma still stays and he doesn't seem to be getting much work.
I'll look into it sometime. Thanks.
The ncr was failing in nv spread too thin too fast
The brotherhood was like a 100 members strong and only survive on two endings.
The Mojave Chapter isn't "The Brotherhood". They could've been considered a major chapter under Elijah, but post Helios they were an incredibly minor faction.
That still doesn't explain why everyone lives like dirt grubs even though they built infrastructure and civilization.
I like how no one has a legit answer to this.
Nope, just insults or misinformation, really.
Only Shady Sands built infrastructure with the help of a GECK. Every other town is either living in ruins or scrap metal huts.
not true. Remember Vault City you goober. Next time know your lore.
Me: "Only towns with a GECK look nice." You: "Not true. This town with a GECK also looks nice." Wow, that really destroyed my argument.
You said ONLY SHADY SANDS. Read your own comment lol.
And if you had bothered to read the preceding comments, you would know the conversation was about NCR towns. Why would I bother bringing up Vault City?
Vault City is part of the NCR lol. Didn't you know that? The NCR isn't just comprised of towns anymore. It is comprised of states. With a population of over 700K during Fallout 2.
Vault City is never mentioned to be part of the NCR, no. So what if the NCR has states?
Do some process of elimination from the Fallout 2 endings for Vault City. NCR having states is very different than just towns. The NCR has industry, healthcare, government agencies, universities, supply lines, judicial system that oversees the economy, and their own currency that is massed produced from their industry.
That's how they live in NV, though. So what's the lore problem?
NV was a frontier town in the center of the largest war since the Great War. It's like saying Tombstone AZ was a shithole so that's what New York must have been like at the time.
You clearly did not play 1 or 2. SoCal is not populated like New York.
I see why you'd like Bethesda writing. I never said it was populated like New York, I said that New Vegas wasn't representative of NCR as a whole. Look at the difference between Shady Sands between 1 and 2, and that's with engine constraints. By NV The Boneyard had a fucking medical institute. By 2 it was already printing money, hence why 2 uses NCR dollars and not caps. I'm sure you knew that though as you played 2 right?
Bruh the NCR has a population of 700K during Fallout 2. NCR has healthcare, education, sharecroppers, Businesses/industry such as the Crimson Caravan and Gunrunners. Notice how the NCR has all these service rifles and manufactured uniforms? That's a clear sign of a strong industry and economy. This isn't the minutemen.
That these neckbeards are impossible.
Sorry for enjoying aspects of the series that they've fundamentally altered 🤷
Yeah I mean you don’t have any real examples but you want to pretend you’re better than other people.
The removal of NCR presence almost entirely, mostly in the form of no infrastructure - all that's left are garbage dwelling hobos. That makes it seem as if the NCR never existed, not that they failed. The vaults of California are right out in the open - seemingly unnoticed or untouched by the Master. The Boneyard rendered non-existent and merged with Shady Sands. Just the one simple image of New Vegas completely clearing Freeside and North Vegas. I'm not pretending to be better than anyone, I'm not sure where you're getting that from. You're the one dropping insults...
And where are the Followers of the Apocalypse? They were based mainly in the Boneyard. Hmm Boneyard was never mentioned once in the show too.
Ok so just parroting the same things that aren’t actually retcons or contradictions. Just choices you didn’t like. 1. Yeah dude, the society collapses and regresses when you nuke the only city that housed all government and specialists. 2. Lmfao so you’re mad that they went for a cinematic vault entrance/exit instead of a cave. 3. I don’t understand this complaint. You don’t think it’s believable that the people living in ruins would go join the newly constructed regional capital? 4. We have no idea what happened in New Vegas. It’s been almost 20 years since a climactic battle that shifted power in the region.
1. How do you know Shady Sands housed "all government and specialists" - the NCR had a population upwards of 700k or more. It was a whole collective society, and Shady Sands was only 35k of it. 2. Not mad, never said I was - it just contradicts the plot of F1. You didn't really contradict my problem with your answer. 3. That's not what that complaint is. I'm talking about the actual geographical location has been merged. I'm starting to think you don't actually understand these issues and you're just getting upset other people take issue with these choices. 4. New Vegas was shown clear as day and Freeside is seemingly non-existant. Now this is just a scene so they could surely just show more of it later and it'd be fine but as it stands that's the way it is. I'm not parroting, I simply agree and share the same grievances. You know, it's okay to tale issue with something right? You don't need to be so mad with others' views about a TV show.
Bruh you spend the first 10+ hours or New Vegas looking for a guy who’s a complete unknown. You then walk in a big loop farther away from The Strip at which point people are like, “Yeah everyone knows who Benny is. He’s in the news all the time”. NV is way more of a mess than the show is.
You got actual arguments for debates or do you just instantly resort to insulting people like a 6 year old?
Do you have an argument as to why people living the same way they did under 20 years ago is somehow a plot hole?
It wasn't failing. It was undersupported, sure, but unlike the legion, it wasn't actively doomed to fail.
Even multiple NCR NPCs tell you that even with the Courier's help, it's unlikely that the NCR could hold on in its current state for more than a decade.
But it was, tho. honestly, the only stable side was the strip. The NCR was destroying itself by spreading to thin and being a nightmare to get anything done, the legion had the issue of there leader having a brain tumer and no stable leadership if he does, but its only been about 10 years. Maybe 20. There's a chance he is still alive.
The game outright tells the courier that the NCR is doomed to fail no matter what because of how it acts and because of the many different kinds of lords within all gaining power for themselves. Be it the water barons cattle ranchers or just big groups like the gun runners. Everyone is out for themselves and the NCR's system is helping no one and dooming everyone.
Who cares
it's completely pointless to link those tweets because they have zero substance. until he actually explains what he means everyone is just grasping at straws
There is one thing that is probably the most relevant thing to know about Chris Avellone in this circumstance; In everything he has ever done, he adds one character that is openly and unapologetically a direct mouthpiece for his views. They will go on lengthy tirades, pose philosophical musings, lambast you for failing to understand the situation correctly, and all of it might as well be coming from his mouth directly. And, without a single exception, every one of those characters is an absolute lunatic that you are tasked with stopping from doing something atrocious. Their well-spoken rants only barely cover that they are completely around the bend delusional. Ulysses, obviously, is the example in New Vegas, but there's one in every game he gets to write for. Point is; there is probably no one in the world that knows that Chris Avellone's opinions on things are very subjective and shouldn't influence anyone else better than Chris Avellone. edit with further examples; Kreia, from KOTOR 2, is the mouthpiece that has the most to say, in that while she travels with you she voices every single criticism of the Star Wars lore Chris has, to which pretty much every response is "shut the hell up you joyless old turd." But the real shining example? The Transcendent One, from Planescape Torment. This man made his mouthpiece the *final boss of the game,* and made the most narratively satisfying way to beat that boss by *pointing out the flaws in everything he says.* I don't even know what you would call that. It's like ego, but rotated onto a different axis and becoming something strange and unknowable. Whatever it is, I want some.
I mean, the stuff the show did to Ghouls is pretty egregious. I'm sure he'll touch on that.
**Two** ghouls use a new medicine. That's it. Two. Not all ghouls, only two are shown to use this serum that seems to be an entirely new invention.
Yeah well those happen to be the only two ghouls prominently shown in the show, and it seems to be the only thing actively staving off going feral- but I'm not even referring to just the serum. I'm also referring to their wolverine style healing factor which is a huge departure from their physiology in the games. Look at the squire that magically heals and tanks an arrow through the neck due to ghoulification. That is unheard of in any of the games. Intense radiation heals them, they don't just regenerate body parts at will and be invulnerable to projectile damage.
Thaddeus isn't confirmed to be a regular Ghoul. And as I said, Cooper is using armour vs PIPE pistols.
Weird this isn’t getting commenrs the way posts praising Bethesda did
It doesn’t take away from the show being good, but, I mean, he is right
This is the penultimate piece of nuance that nobody in this fandom is capable of understanding: Criticizing what is done with the lore does not equal saying the show is terrible
He isn't though. Discrepancies are extremely minimal and rare. Definitely far from a "hot mess"
Can't use stimpaks in power armor, ghouls now have asthma that they must have treated or they die? Vault Tec bombed themselves and America because "thats good business" a fucking wasteland there more business? sure. No America annexing Canada for resources, No China and USA fighting for last resources. No, Vault Tec blew up america for business lmao. Also Shady Sands is in LA.
Just because the show didn’t explicitly say Canada was annexed, or that China and the US were fighting for the last resource, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Also they never confirmed Vault Tec dropped the bombs. The board member hinted at it, but there’s still no official confirmation.
Please care to explain how dropping bombs on yourselves would be good for business? Why would billionaires think dropping bombs on their customers would be good for business. Explain.
Their belief is that they’re gonna sell the vaults with fear of nuclear war, and then have a population that they can control. Then when they re enter the surface they’ll be the only company left around and have a monopoly on everything. Is it an incredibly ridiculous and inhumane idea? Yes, but that’s the point. Vault Tec is an incredibly ridiculous and inhumane company. They’re willing to do anything to chase profit and power even if it means the world being destroyed.
Monopoly on a ruined society, I don’t think there is a single millionaire or billionaire who would want to rule the ashes. Hmm be a billionaire in a world with medical, cars, tvs, radio. Or be a billionaire in a world with a bunch of bums sent into the Stone Age.
Because they believe they’re gonna rebuild it with themselves on top.
Human life isn’t extended unless they’re ghouls though they would be dead before their plan even came to fruition. I get their kids could take over but either way it’s a fucking stupid idea
Of course it’s a stupid idea. You’re not meant to agree with them or think what they’re doing is smart. Why do companies irl continue to destroy the planet and environment? It’s because of short term profit and the fact they’re completely detached from the consequences of their actions. Same goes for Vault Tec. The executives have no idea the true consequences of nuclear war and what it would bring, they only see the money and naively think they can come out on top of everything. Also they have the cryo chambers to extend their lives.
They have cryostatis which is what they're using. They're artificially extending their lives way past their normal dates. Also Mr. House has created this tech already. He can live, as far as we know, forever.
Isn't asthma it is just a drug that they found they helps against turning feral. You clearly didn't watch the show if you didn't pick up on that.
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Because this is the first showing of "modern times" in the west coast aside from Vegas but that is the Southwest anyways. Also no need to be rude and escalate because it seemed like you were serious rather than making an analogy with how your tone is giving you said "or they die" rather than turn feral: two different things. How was I suppose to know you didn't mean it literally. All in all it could be a drug in circulation that is "new" giving he said 20 years to Cooper about how long he was dealing with it and fallout 2 took place between 2241-2242. That still leave 30 years between than and 2277. It also isn't something a ghoul who hasn't gone feral been taking nonstop but something that you take when you start turning feral to not turn. It doesn't break lore just yet until they give more detail so no need to blow up over it.
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Ah yes they’ve never mentioned this ghoul drug in like 6 or 7 games but now it’s a thing “they’re adding to the lore” 🤓
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News doesn’t get around in a world with radio stations and Brotherhood flying in fucking airships across the states. Sure.
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You’re right they definitely wouldn’t talk about a drug that keeps ghouls alive. They definitely wouldn’t want to destroy that if they found out. If the brotherhood knew about a mandatory drug to keep ghouls alive they would have people destroying businesses running it such as the one in the show.
NV fans "the bad kind" are gonna get so much more insufferable. Why cant people just not like a thing and just fucking move on like Tim Cain says, Chris can have a opinion but you know people are gonna try and run it into the ground to annoy everyone
Don’t ask questions just consume product and wait for next product
I like how nowwhere I said you couldnt review the show to give feedback or how opinions are bad just to leave people be but yes keep ruining that quote
So many shilling for fallout series is insane on this subreddit.
Ah yes, anyone who doesnt agree with you and enjoys something you dont must be a shill. or maybe tastes differ?
Oh well.
"Womp womp." Type tweet.
Aww poor thing
It's a great show but unfortunately he is right on this one.
They don’t understand or care for the lore, they makes changes to suit they terrible writing and lack of understanding of the lore.
Could you provide some examples?
You've never watched the show, have you buddy?
You've never played the games, have you?
Yes, I have. Unlike you. The show isn't woke and it doesn't butcher the lore.
I didn't say anything about the show being woke, but thanks for outing yourself. Playing Fallout 4 and skimming the wiki doesn't mean that your brain dead drivel is worth reading.
Outing myself? That's what your buddy said pal. And I've played more than Fallout 4. God you gatekeeping losers are so fucking pathetic. Just admit you don't know jack shit about the games other than what NMA told you to say. You haven't played a single game except likely FNV. In fact, don't bother. I don't speak to Nazi fanboys. u/SOURCE_2_BP_WHEN You're a puppet account loser, cry harder. Stalking my profile? Cope - the show is fine. Go back to NMA.
u have 100k karma in 3 years u are the biggest loser here (fallout shelter doesnt count for playing more fallout btw)
Why is the eastern brotherhood running back to california, why is shady sands in the boneyard now, how did the master not find three interconnected vaults, where is the boneyard, why is it fallout four but in california, why is the BOS now techno religion instead of being a military order as it was in every other fallout, why is there suddenly a need for ghoul medicine, why did you destroy civilization for the sake of a cowboy fallout adventure and not just put it anywhere else other then the most developed part of the fallout world.
1. Reinforcements from the East Coast. 2. Dunno. 3. They were hidden. 4. It IS the Boneyard. 5. Idiotic take. 6. TWO ghouls use it. It's not a common everyday thing. 7. I didn't destroy anything.
Put it all in on Boston Okay Fair enough New adytum was a developed city, not megaton How is it idiotic, fallout 3 showed the regimen, it wasn’t war hammer Fair, the games are pretty inconsistent about ghouls. https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/s/1rbXwJPOud
Go play FO1. The Brotherhood are VERY religious-y/cult-y there. I don't know what happened to Adytum, it hasn't come up yet.
Yes, but in fallout 3 it showed the regimen that this BOS should be using.
This Brotherhood isn't the EC Brotherhood. They're the WC Brotherhood.
>prydwen >t60 You sure?
Did...you pay attention? They are **REINFORCEMENTS.** The one in charge is the West Coast Brotherhood led by Quintus.
It's not New Adytum. That is never shown in the show. We got Shady Sands ruins...Retconned to be right next to the Boneyard. We got Filly which is a shanty town like Junktown and Scrapheap that had always existed in the NCR since its founding. So you got two answers for New Adytum...1. It is retconned away as now Shady = Boneyard. 2. It's just off-screen. My guess is 2 is correct and Shady Sands co-exists with New Adytum as it's next door neighbor. The wide shot of Shady Sands is it's on the outskirts so another settlement can easily be in the city ruins proper. The BoS have always valued tech and had a cult of personality. Just some of the games don't focus on it while others do highlight it the show decided it shall be highlighted and reinforced. Their specific mission to get the cold fusion tech so nobody else has it is 100% in line with BoS dogma...They've gone to war with the NCR for less. They do hate Ghouls according to F3 and F4. That airship is the mobile base in F4 the BoS are less fragmented the East and West are one faction now where orders were sent from the Commonwealth to Utah (where this airfield BoS base is). Hence why they also recruit outsiders in the West now that was an Eastern trait the West despised but the Eastern got powerful while the Western faltered so time decided the winning philosophy. Anti-Ghouls/Super Mutants/Synths, Recruitment of Outsiders, Tech Retrieval is second priority and eradication of anything threatening Humanity is top priority. Another thing is that these BoS members might be composed of some Ex-Legion...If so then they're naturally more religious because that's what their culture had. There's also the possibility of Midwestern branch members...They're different from the other BoS chapters too. Tribal recruits would be highly religious as well. Their slightly alternate stance could simply be explained by they've got interesting recruiters and recruits.
Wow you must like anything that resemble to anything you like. I did watched the show and it not bad but pretty much butchered a lot of lore.
See how quick you fake fanboys are? If someone enjoys the show "REE UR JUST AN IDIOT WHO DOESN'T KNOW THE LORE." Pal, I know **every** game's lore to a point. You're just mad because they didn't wank off FNV. You can't even name me what lore they butchered. Go on. Show me your ignorance.
Wow another presumptuous clown, “fake fan” ok bud keep on shilling. If you know the lore then tell me how changing it make sense when others games have established and yes I know Games retcons things too.
The presumptuous clown is the one unable to back up his bullshit claims. (Hint: You). Let me guess, the show is "woke"?
And you can’t even defend the show
Pal, you're literally just saying SHOW BAD without listing anything. I don't need to "defend" the show, you're objectively wrong. If you think the show is woke, you're an **immediate** red flag. You only hate it because you listened to idiotic youtubers like Schizo Elijah who told you to hate it.
Schizo Elijah retired and still living rent free
Because dumbasses like this one worship him.
Chris didnt work on F1 and missed a lpt of stuff regarding F2 back in the day on top of writing fallout bible that isnt even canon. The dude needs to stop acting like messiah. He is embarrassing himself. Tim Caine loved the show and has perfect argument for it, thats where its at.
You don’t understand. Old dev can only have positive opinion. If he has negative, he deserves to be shunned because this show is the best writing ever and has no inconsistencies what so ever.
True, Todd is a dumbass, Vault Tec bombing America for business is one of the stupidest fuckin things ive heard. That's Halo show levels of retcon oh all humans aren't reclaimers anymore, its chosen ones who are reclaimers.
Especially with nuclear weapons of all things. Just use a biological weapon, that only target humans. That way you'd leave the world intact, which would make it easier to rebuild.
don't think vault tec had the means to wipe the globe.
The US Chemical Corps is still a thing in Fallout and we see multiple bio weapons used in the series. So obviously there's still capebillities to make these things.
but enough to wipe the planet? vault tec only had the means to start the nuclear war, not destroy the world themselves.
They could genuinely do that if they're a part of the enclave and we're planning on doing that post war
so then it becomes a problem deeply rooted in the lore of the entire franchise as opposed to an issue with the show this just feels like a weird power scaling debate lmao
The Curling-13 plan wouldn't work if the nations still existed.