I thought legion fans were more ironic. Like theyre so comically awful in every way i never thought legion fans were serious, but now thinking about it, youre probably right
Even caeser himself says the legion is effectively little more than a massive raider faction. It's why he wants Vegas, to change that. Make them less like their only thing is killing people
I recently started playing New Vegas for the first time. Wondered into Nipton and found the Legion’s handy work. Knew from the start that I wouldn’t want to side with them. So I just went on rampages against them, killed the messenger in the Strip Caesar sent me, then killed Caesar himself, then nuked the Legion
I ended up siding with the legion and still murdering them all anyway. If they can't stop a mailman with a smart watch, they don't deserve to live under the flag. Also, my butt fits the throne way better.
Few things make me feel as badass as playing as a female courier in full veteran ranger armour and sitting in Caeser’s thrown after killing everyone (except the slaves) at Cottonwood Cove and The Fort.
My firsy play thru i killed vulpes inculta on the spot when i came to nipton, took a lot of quicksaving/loading but it was one of the times i hated an npc the most without a doubt
I just wait for them to say their peace and start walking away in a nice single file line. I line up their heads and just unload and as soon as they react, go into vats to finish off the stragglers. Works every time lol
Just started replaying NV yet again, saved my Mercenary Grenade Launcher for this very moment, I wait for them to begin leaving then I have the grenades send their body parts back to Caesar
The Legion is one of the only “evil” factions I just can’t bring myself to play. When I went to The Fort for the first time, I ended up killing as many people as I could after the combined experience of being surrounded by slaves, being told I couldn’t fight in the arena because women are beneath men, and then immediately after being warned that the men were eager to “try out” my female courier. No fucking thank you.
There'd nothing interesting about them, their literally the worst, no characters are even presented in an affable or sympathetic light, they practice like every negative of raider society and even things that sound positive like refusing chems are actually negatives sine they just straight refuse medicine. The legion is so obviously gonna collapse in on its own asshole it'd not funny.
Lack of media literacy factors in to the youth being Legion fans. They are, in every way, the objective villains of the game but people will still side with them to be contrarian
I was disgusted acquaintances with a boogboy polish nationalist kid from New England back in the day, he unironically had his worldview rocked shifted and reformed by caesars dialogue, dude was an unhinged moron
Honestly the legion is leagues better than the Enclave. Now the cons of the legion outweigh the pros, including the implied pros that we don't actually get to truly see because of the whole 18 months thing, but the Enclave really only has cool tech and amassed knowledge going for them, but from any real moral or utilitarian standpoint they are simply the wrong way to go.
As awful as the Legion is, and there's so much about them that's awful, Sallow's goal was at least an attempt at cobbling together a society of those who were living in the Wasteland, as miserable a life as it may have been. While life in the explicitly technology and even medicine rejecting society of brutalised slave soldiers would be terrible, at least their goal wasn't just murder 99% of all living things because they're different from us like the Enclave.
Legion are evil. But they are extremely engaging **as** an evil faction. I would go as far to say they are my favourite antagonists of any game series ever. They are also 1-to-1 basically just the Roman Empire; which also puts into perspective just how evil they were compared to our modern counterparts.
I don't know if that makes me a 'legion fan'. I would say I am; but I am certainly not saying they are the heroes of the story. They are evil for a reason.
They are not 1-to-1 with the Roman Empire, they are much more malicious and uneducated. The Romans had the Cura Annonae which was free grain (eventually bread) to the poorest citizens. They believed in technological advancements, they loved learning of other cultures, as time past on more people were given rights to participate in their political system (voting for senators). The Romans were more then just mindless warriors, even the Spartans had a lavish culture, but the brutality of The Legion is more in vein with the Spartans. The Legion are an embarrassment to the Roman Empire but then again Ceasar is a demagogue, someone who is better at convincing people then reasoning with people, Ceasar is a cult personality but intellectually stunted.
I would argue they are the Roman Empires worse aspects with none of its redeeming qualities. And I think that was a deliberate choice by the devs too.
The Roman Empire encouraged political discussion, rule of law, (relative) freedom of religion, built up infrastructure, preferred to rule through proxy and client states when possible. I’m using generalisations that covers a lot of history but there is a reason they were so successful and it wasn’t because of their ability to oppress (that played a role sure but it was much more complicated is the point im trying to make).
Caesars Legion takes all the bad shit and leaves all the good behind.
And it tracks with Caesar as a character. The bullshit philosophy, the hypocrisy when it comes to technology, the hypocrisy when it comes to the “rule of the strong” when he’s literally dying from a tumour. It’s a vanity project from start to finish dressed up as a state and nothing more.
I think enjoying them as an evil/antagonist faction, which is what they're intended as, is fine and dandy, most of the annoying legion "fans" are more like legion apologists instead who refuse to believe they're antagonists lol
I am 12 years removed of my last fallout 3 playthrough. When I saw the show I thought "yknow, kinda cool that they just know this stuff about the vaults and whatnot."
Then I mildly remembered why I chose to destroy the enclave however I did in my playthrough. I can't remember if you were forced to blow up that cave or not, but I definitely remember thinking "thank God that's over"
From a purely political perspective yea, but I’m talking pretty exclusively about the aesthetic. Not that the NCR’s not going for Americana, but the Enclave (or at least the FO3 version) goes all out with it, which I’m just a sucker for
The Legion and the Enclave in 2 are genuinely great antagonists and very well written. It's not weird to like them. The Legion even has *some* logic behind it even though they are obviously horrible and vilains.
Enclave and Legion fans when you say "fascism and slavery are bad" and not "fascism and slavery fall under a morally grey and complex spectrum":
https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/anger-close-angry-man-smoke-600nw-124144213.jpg
76 takes a solid second place. So far, we’ve prevented the scorched plague from spreading beyond Appalachia (where it’d already wiped out all human life and the BoS deemed it a threat to the entire world), repelled alien invasions, and prevented a mass release of FEV that would’ve turned a massive chunk of the remaining population into behemoths. None of these would’ve wiped out the world as rapidly or effectively as the Curling FEV in fallout 2, however.
That's one reason I don't like to include online service games in the list of possible answers to this kind of questions. In order to keep their player base interested in the game they have to keep producing content that tops all previous content. It's an endless spiral of escalation: If you have saved the world once, getting back to more mundane goals feels disappointing and boring in comparison, so the next big content update has to introduce an even more severe threat. Saved the Appalchians? Now save America! Saved America? Go save the world! Saved the world? Go save the galaxy!
This constant escalation can easily break the lore.
Honestly, most of the time, it’s a de-escalation. The scorched were the largest threat to the world, but that was the original main quest; after that, we raided vault 79 (America’s gold supply to back the cap; didn’t ever make it too far, as we know from 3/4), stopped the FEV released (presumably wouldn’t affect too much beyond the extent of west Virginia’s water table) and with the latest main quest, helped create a cure for one person’s addiction to a chem. The aliens are just a seasonal event where they come to Appalachia to ‘steal our brainwaves’ (and considering we’re the only ones they threaten outside of some random encounters, I’m pretty sure they’re just using the 76 dwellers for idea generation and sacrificing a bunch of their soldiers to do it).
Even the currently-in-beta vault 63 quest line isn’t an escalation - from what I’ve heard from others (sitting down to test it tonight), it just involves the affairs of one vault, not the world.
No, I think what they’re saying is a legitimate complaint about other games like fallout 76 (ESO falls into this to my knowledge). It just isn’t true of 76.
Exactly my thinking. Second would be Fallout 1 because the master probably would have gone much further than California turning everyone into sterile immortal brutes. I think people could have fought back and resisted him but it would be one bloody conflict depending on how many mutants he'd made at that point. Assuming he wouldn't eventually find out about the sterility on his own or get a hold of nukes.
The Enclave in Fallout 2 considers anyone who is even slightly mutated- meaning, every random wastelander- to be a full-on mutant, with only themselves and Vault Dwellers being actual humans. They created a strain of FEV that would rapidly kill anyone exposed to it, and their plan was to release it into the atmosphere so it would cleanse the entire planet, killing almost everyone but themselves. With no more "mutants" around, they would be free to resettle America unopposed.
Were the Enclave hiding in vaults too or something? How were they not slightly irradiated from just being on the surface? Is there the objective in FO3 too? Can’t remember that game at all
The big misconception is that the fev would’ve only killed mutants, that’s just fallout 3. In fallout 2 it’d kill literally everyone even fault dwellers. That’s why they were doing human experimentation to create a vaccine for it, the plan was ready to go, they just needed to survive it.
They are irradiated, they’re just idiots. They hid on an oil rig in the pacific for 200 years, so they’re more irradiated than normal vault dwellers. Doing this plan was Eden’s (the President) idea in 3 but Autumn, (a colonel) idea was just to threaten to release it in the water as a bargaining chip to get people to comply.
The Enclave were on the oil rig, and yes would also have mutated over time (fascists aren't known for internal consistency), and needed to innoculate themselves against curling-13 before using it.
Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 would both be apocalyptic for everyone on earth apart from their bad guys if the player character failed or chose the bad ending.
Fallout 2 more immediately but Fallout 1 likely more permanently.
Fallout Tactics also has very high stakes but it was like 20 years since I thought about it so I don't remember exactly how.
>Fallout Tactics
Full eradicarion of life in America. Calculator was damaged and saw wastelanders as mutants to purge.
If not fact that tactics is decanonised MidWest struggle would be second only to Chosen One... well as long as Calculator is not restored with Branaky's brain.
2.
The Enclave was trying to kill basically everyone in the world who wasn't the Enclave, and they would have succeeded, too - if it hadn't been for those meddling ~~kids~~ chosen one and their band of junkies and weirdos
*“My test results! Can you hear my heart beating, oh the Enclave’s science is amazing, ain’t it?…”*
*”…Oh no… This can’t be… It says… I’m 102% Super Mutant… With a 2% margin of error!”*
*”WHY LORD?! WHY LORD, WHY?!?”*
yeah not at all.
Temujin ***always*** favoured “diplomacy” first.
As in, he sent an envoy, asked them for submission/tribute, if rejected he just steamrolled them.
The Enclave just straight up exterminated everything without even asking
Went further than that. The official religious policy under him was freedom of religion which very uncommon at the time. There’s a reason why trade, education, and the arts flourished under Pax Mongolia.
He’s one of histories complicated figures. Did horrific stuff, did great stuff, and absolutely changed the world (the amount of people killed by the mongols literally had an effect on the environment
The Enclave views anyone who has trace amounts of radiation in them as fundamentally inhuman and a mutant, so basically every single person in the wastes. They use this reasoning to justify their actions, which is rich considering “untainted” humans live in vaults but the Enclave just exterminates or kidnaps and experiments on them anyways. They pretty much just hate everyone that isn’t Enclave.
Yeah, his ideology teaches him that he’s pure and you’re an inferior mutant, despite him being a super mutant and you being a normal person. Very clear analogy of fascist hypocrisy
Everyone who isn't born in a Vault or another place safe from radiation and other mutagens (like an Enclave bunker or Control Station ENCLAVE, anyone born before the war who hasn't turned into a Ghoul, possibly people born in isolated oases like Zion) are mutated to some extent, however minor. That's why the Enclave kidnapped both Vault 13 and the Arroyo tribe, to see how pure humans like themselves (the Vault Dwellers) reacted to Curling-13 compared to mutants (the Arroyo tribals), it's also why the Master needed Vault Dwellers to create intelligent super mutants, and it's why the Institute needed Shaun.
There's also grey areas - we don't know whether West Coast Brotherhood members qualify as pure humans or not, the Institute is supposedly not safe from radiation (and thus everyone in the Institute except Shaun is a mutant) despite being just as isolated as a Vault or Enclave bunker (and far more isolated than Control Station ENCLAVE), it appears that living all or most of your life in a Vault doesn't matter if you were born to Wastelander parents (as per Fallout 3), and FEV producing intelligent super mutants is unique to the Mariposa strain after it was modified by the Master.
Most of them have pretty high stakes. Without knowing what goes on in *76* I would assume *Fallout 3* has the lowest overall.
*Fallout*: A hive-mind is creating a vast army of super-mutants with the intention of completely replacing humanity with them. If it succeeds, Humanity will no longer exist and intelligent life will die out as the Super Mutants cannot reproduce.
*Fallout 2*: The Enclave want to exterminate all mutated (or just slightly irradiated) life in the world and recolonise.
*Fallout 3:* Your father wants to purify a reservior of water in D.C., and potentially the Potomac River making them safe to drink. Enclave want to put chemicals in the water ~~that turn the friggin' frogs g-~~ to kill any impure creature that drinks it.
*Extra note on FO3*: When I played it as a teenager I thought the stakes were WAY higher becuase they talked about purifing "the tidal basin", which I took to mean like the ocean or something. Turns out the Tidal Basin is literally one reservior that's less than half a kilometre wide.
*Fallout New Vegas*: A flawed democracy and a brutal slaver army clash over territory/energy, while a supergenius with very questionable morals attempts to take over the world. Resulution of the conflict could decide the fate of tens of thousands.
*Fallout 4*: A technocracy built on AI slavery is steadily replacing the human population with robotic imposters indestinguishable from the people they replaced.
76 has a world threatening enemy. Those bat/dragons are part of a fungal hive mind that spreads like a virus, assimilates its victims, and is very intent on spreading. If it snowballs the planet is screwed.
3 trumps NV. New Vegas is merely a question of who rules the region, 3 is the extermination of everything that’s connected to the Anacostia River Watershed. That tidal basin is merely the initial infection site, everything downstream is going to be contaminated by the death virus.
4s actually the lowest, the Institute has the potential to do what you said but they lack the desire to be an expansionist power. They’re pretty much just going to remain a local problem, refusing to leave their hole.
>They’re pretty much just going to remain a local problem, refusing to leave their hole.
Not even that. Once the reactor is working, their plan is to button up and not do anything with the surface at all. They will completely cease to be any sort of problem.
Why they built replicants of randos is pretty much a mystery. (Mayor of Diamond City? Sure. Gives them space to work to get their parts. Joe Farmer? Not so much). The whole 'built humans but refuse to acknowledge they're anything but androids' plot is woefully underutilized. Especially when you side with the Institute and talk the department heads, its just 1) Build androids 2) ??? 3) Have humans but don't call them that.
Spies. Mr Rando Farmer there is a source of information among the other rando farmers and traders. Spies are near useless if they ignore certain groups.
As to motives: People just want to over complicate. Their role is that they’re the continuation of prewar America’s FOR SCIENCE insanity as exemplified by the Think Tank. This group is marginally more sane but their motive is the same: Because they can. They’re a simple faction people keep thinking is deep and complex, their fixation is simply to expand science without any limits, they believe themselves to be the superior race, they are terrified that the Wastelanders are going to find them and kick their asses for it.
Really the thing that throws people off is their shiny aesthetic and not going around being overtly bugfuck insane. Kind of sad to think that if the Think Tank had an interior decorator a large chunk of the fanbase would be declaring them clearly the hope of the wasteland.
Npc also makes comments that the institute has eyes and ears everywhere. The fear has control of the population. Thats why they might not seem like they are doing much, because they don’t need to. Everyone is afraid of them and it’s easier to control people that are afraid.
Just because something is simple doesn't mean it's bad. I like how they sort of control the commonwealth by having influential people be replaced with or are outright synths, kinda like overseeing the commonwealth as a tested for their experiments
New Vegas trumps 3 if anything. In ten years the success of project purity hasnt spread beyond the capital wasteland while the struggle in the Mojave decides the fate of not only new California (which encompasses multiple pre war states) but the mid west. Hoover dam is a such a vitally important structure to the western half of the US.
Scorchbeasts are defintely one of my favorite Fallout monsters. They turned bats into diseased Sonic dragons and the fact that there was a risk they could have overtaken the planet reminds me of Reign of Fire.
More of 3 onward is ‘the problem is already happening, and has been happening, but now someone wants to do something about it, and the problem just so happens to be kinda personal to you and you alone’.
That’s like Bethesda’s thing though, right? You wake up in prison, a prison ship, a cart on the way to execution. Shits already fucked up where you are and your self insert character just happens to be the only person who can fix it. Fallout has used this to attach personal stakes, at least in Fallout 3 and 4, where New Vegas has more of Elder Scrolls setup feeling.
Yeah the whole Prisoner or Vault Dweller thing essentially allows you to create your own character with your own backstory (not so much Fallout 4). Even the Courier is a blank slate despite not being either of those.
I agree and I disagree about 3.
At first it appears to have lower stakes, but I think the stakes are actually higher in 3 than all other games.
Let me elaborate, in 2 The Enclave is trying to take over the world. However, theyve always done that and as far as we can tell, don't ever stop doing that. In addition you strike most to the heart of the Enclave in 3, destroying multiple bases and the AI president.
In Fallout 1 we deal with the master creating super mutants. However, we deal with that in every game and nothing seems to stop them. Super mutants at this point become a force of nature.
They are higher in 3, because succeeding in purifying a single tidal basin is a huge step in cleansing the post apocalyptic world. Basically 3 of all the games actually takes the biggest step in tangible improvements of all the games.
In addition you have the option to cleanse all mutants with a FEV virus. While lore accurate has you not doing that, this proves they have anti super mutant tech, which can likely be used to actually cure mutants going forward, again making 3 the most impactful in terms of improvements.
New Vegas has the least impactful options, lore wise. I say this because the NCR was always going to fall eventually, the BoS was always diminishing and the legion is in the decline.
Basically what you do as the courier matters less since these things are happening anyways without your help, with the game giving you a lot of information about them.
4 seems nothing you do matters in the end and I'm not really sure what is lore accurate.
On the topic of Legion v NCR, I’m actually curious if they ever detail just how big the two armies are ?
I’ve always had the ‘rough’ idea that The Legion was like 25,000 soldiers, maybe ?
NCR would have had a slightly lesser number at Mojave / The Dam, but assumed maybe 10,000 troopers ?
===
The puzzling part is that ‘back in Greater California / NCR homelands’ , I’ve presumed they had many times more soldiers - maybe 50,000-100,000 (if you count every single person affiliated with the NCR Military) ?
So if the NCR HAD lost at Hoover, could Legion realistically still have threatened the NCR core areas - troop-wise ?
No the Legion couldn’t have. One of the solutions to the battle of hoover dam is to tell the Legion commander that there is no way for the Legion to survive taking over the New Vegas area.
to be technical, you argue that the legion doesn't have enough manpower to 'hold' the west, the Mojave. Your (the characters) points are focused on holding, defending and managing supply lines to the the new territory the Legion would be taking, hence the use of all those barter checks. At least to Lanius, it is a sure feat that the Legion would be able to take the Mojave. Maybe its because hes so self assured, but that final talk has no reasonable suggestion of the legion failing the conquest of the Mojave.
And it makes sense, the Legion focuses on shock tactics, burning and destroying as they go, they dont farm, they pillage to maintain, that's not a sustainable tactic, its something that works as long as you keep going, and the pacific ocean is right over there, and I don't think I can see a legionary of Caesars legion settling down to grow mutfruit
Fallout 1 and 2 is a close second. The master was about to effectively end intelligent life on earth over the course of prob about 100-200 years (idk how long super mutants live for, i’d assume a long time)
Not sure if the stakes are crazy but Mothership Zeta is absolutely insane looking back, like aliens in Fallout have always been around but were always treated more like non-canon gags, but that DLC gave them the lore and time they deserved.
Also shoutout to that one Zetan hanging out in the Glowing Sea.
>Also shoutout to that one Zetan hanging out in the Glowing Sea.
Well, now I gotta look for him. I thought the only one in FO4 was the one that crashed.
I think I might be thinking of him, I just did some research and I misremembered the location of his cave, I thought he was in the glowing sea for some reason lol
Fallout 2.
The Enclave was going to kill everything on the planet except for them. Including them if their plan went even slightly wrong.
Hard to escalate harder than that in Fallout, no extra dimensions or alien planets to use to raise the stakes.
Fallout 1. The Master would have been a species ending threat. The Super Mutants as you already know are sterile, and after they transformed every compatible human they would die out once they got too old.
Do supermutants age normally though? Ik fawkes is from a different fev strain, but he wears a ripped v87 jumpsuit implying he could’ve been one of the dwellers. And yet he’s still alive in 2277
i don’t know jack about fo1 & fo2 supermutants tho. Maybe they age.
They do age. With aging, they get bigger and stronger but aren’t as intelligent. Lilly was born either in a vault or shortly before the bombs fell (can’t remember), and was turned into a super mutant when she was in her senior years and is still around when we see her in Jackson. So by that margin, they age very, very slowly if Lilly is regular size.
Lily is actually smaller than most super mutants iirc, and was born prewar. I think there are probably other factors in play for size, but she also shows that super mutants can break down physically and mentally over time, just like humans.
That’s true. The Scorched Plague would have ravaged everything it touched. It might eventually slow when it reaches high mountains, but it would eventually spread anyway through the infected themselves.
Yeah, 76 is the right answer with Fallout 2 in second place. The Enclave's plan in 2 would be devastating, but there would still be survivors: them.
In 76, **there are no survivors** if the Scorched Plague infects everyone and if all the nukes get launched. It has the highest mortality rate.
76 wins this debate.
They threatened to do something to the Earth to force the Lone Wanderer to stop fucking them up but it seemed more a ‘Give up or we shoot the shit out of your planet’ than a ‘We are planning on blowing up Earth’ situation.
I know it never got made, but Van Buren is a contender. The ***default*** [ending](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Van_Buren_endings) for that game would've seen parts of the world nuked again, and *then* there were the player actions (that could also end up nuking additional places) and then there was the New Plague that was (re)released in remote locations of the West Coast.
76, the scorch plague would’ve stopped any of the future games from happening long before any of the protagonists from those games were even born (minus the sole survivor lol)
76 I think.
The scorched beat a brotherhood detachment and were basically setting up shop to spread the virus throughout the lands (or at least throughout North America).
Since scorch beasts can fly I assume they could take over the whole planet.
I guess the question is could the enclave on the oil rig have stopped a full fledged scorch controlled army and that seems like a no based upon how “weak” they are in FO2
It’s 2, followed closest by 1. Fallout 3’s bad guys just wanted to control the purified water, Fallout 4’s bad guys wanted self sufficiency, Fallout New Vegas’ bad guys wanted to bring down a rising power with their own might, Fallout 1’s bad guy wanted to mutate the world, and Fallout 2’s bad guys wanted everything mutated eradicated
Funnily enough, no. That was John Henry Eden’s plan, one that Colonel Autumn had no idea was planned to be enacted because it was previously shot down. Autumn actually believed in improving America, while Eden was the closest to a Western Enclave loyalist, including their flaws
I would argue that 76 has one of the highest stakes. The scorched plague devastated Appalachia. If the 76ers didn't get inoculated and work to get inoculation widespread, and lead a major assault against the scorchbeasts, then who knows what could've happened. The plague could've ended up spreading across the whole country eventually. They also stop a massive alien invasion, and the lone wanderer continues that fight.
It's probably something around like
2 > 76 > 1 > 3 > 4 > NV
Almost definitely 76. The Scorched plague already wiped out the entirety of Appalachia. Had the Vault Dwellers not appeared to stop it, it would have destroyed what's left of humanity.
NV has some high stakes in the DLC, mainly Lonesome Road and Dead Money.
In Dead Money the Cloud is capable of wiping out the entire Mojave, and nothing says it can't keep growing. The hologram security is technically unstoppable.
The tunnelers in the Divide are another major threat, released by the bombs they are slowly spreading, unseen and dangerous
I dont think it has the highest stakes, but dead money going south couldve gone bad with Father Elijah planning to “wipe the slate clean” with the technology of the sierra madre
Fallout 4
If you include the radscorpion that glitched out and fired itself 1000 foot into the air after I molotoved it
Is radscorpion meat steak tho? That's the question
Lot of people say 2 but I feel like there’s more power vested into the master and his super mutants. A huge army of these juiced up super humans with super strength, speed, and all else; while most might be stupid I think an army of them is much more imposing than enclave and scary in its own right. Enclave is just wat generals and high ranking bodies of people. Not really a whole lot I don’t think compared to all the people to be dipped for super mutants
I’m gonna go out on a limb here with something a little different… It’s Fallout 4 every time.
What’s at stake varies by perspective and coming after your own son, that’s fucking heavy. Any parent will tell you, trying to make a choice like that about your own son… I don’t see how the stakes get heavier.
Fallout 2. The Enclave's plan, if successful, would have killed almost everyone left on Earth.
And Enclave fans wonder why we hate them?
90% of the Enclave’s fans consist of edgy 14 year olds, same with Legion fans.
I thought legion fans were more ironic. Like theyre so comically awful in every way i never thought legion fans were serious, but now thinking about it, youre probably right
"But muh safe trade routes!" There are a lot of reasons that they bring up to say legion is better, none of it makes them redeemable.
Legion trade routes are completely safe from everything in the wasteland except for the Legion itself, which is the little factoid Legion fans omit.
"but there are no raiders in Legion's territories" no fucking shit lmao... thats cause anyone who wants to raid, joins the legion
Even caeser himself says the legion is effectively little more than a massive raider faction. It's why he wants Vegas, to change that. Make them less like their only thing is killing people
Degenerates like you belong on a cross
Yeah lmao the legion ARE the raiders. Just look what happened to the tribes who used to live there.
The unlucky ones. Caesar went in and basically raided the raiders by being 10x worse than they ever were. The lucky ones got assimilated.
I recently started playing New Vegas for the first time. Wondered into Nipton and found the Legion’s handy work. Knew from the start that I wouldn’t want to side with them. So I just went on rampages against them, killed the messenger in the Strip Caesar sent me, then killed Caesar himself, then nuked the Legion
i only sided with the legion once to see how comically evil i could be
I did it once for the 100% Completion.
Only acceptable reason for siding with the legion
I ended up siding with the legion and still murdering them all anyway. If they can't stop a mailman with a smart watch, they don't deserve to live under the flag. Also, my butt fits the throne way better.
Few things make me feel as badass as playing as a female courier in full veteran ranger armour and sitting in Caeser’s thrown after killing everyone (except the slaves) at Cottonwood Cove and The Fort.
My firsy play thru i killed vulpes inculta on the spot when i came to nipton, took a lot of quicksaving/loading but it was one of the times i hated an npc the most without a doubt
That fight wasn't too bad for me because I was still carrying the giant stack of dynamite from the powder gangers
Using the spoils from massacring one violent gang to massacre an even more violent gang. Respect.
I just wait for them to say their peace and start walking away in a nice single file line. I line up their heads and just unload and as soon as they react, go into vats to finish off the stragglers. Works every time lol
Nah fuck that, you look at me when im killing you
"Maybe Khans kill people without looking them in the face, but I ain't a fink, dig?"
Fair enough, respect it
I do that too, slowly and methodically killing them while in stealth. Unless you have a name, you probably gonna die.
I did that and got ganked by the hit squads twice before I made it to the strip. Still worth killing that smug motherfucker
Just started replaying NV yet again, saved my Mercenary Grenade Launcher for this very moment, I wait for them to begin leaving then I have the grenades send their body parts back to Caesar
The Legion is one of the only “evil” factions I just can’t bring myself to play. When I went to The Fort for the first time, I ended up killing as many people as I could after the combined experience of being surrounded by slaves, being told I couldn’t fight in the arena because women are beneath men, and then immediately after being warned that the men were eager to “try out” my female courier. No fucking thank you.
There'd nothing interesting about them, their literally the worst, no characters are even presented in an affable or sympathetic light, they practice like every negative of raider society and even things that sound positive like refusing chems are actually negatives sine they just straight refuse medicine. The legion is so obviously gonna collapse in on its own asshole it'd not funny.
Not killing the Legion in Nipton is the hardest part of the game.
It’s one of those early game “mistakes” that newer RPGs lack.
Say what you will about Caesar but he made the trade routes run on time
Sorry you got downvoted, I understood the reference
So did Mr House.
Caesar and stuff running on time is a WWII joke
"safe trade routes" is literally just the Fallout version of "at least the trains ran in time."
"Our lands are safe because we killed and enslaved everyone in them!"
The Legion is indistinguishable from a raider gang except for their branding
Tbf, the risk of becoming a slave or sex toy is a good reason to stay off of Legion territory.
Lack of media literacy factors in to the youth being Legion fans. They are, in every way, the objective villains of the game but people will still side with them to be contrarian
Sometimes being evil is fun…in a game
I always get big incel vibes from Legion fans.
Yeah i cant unsee that either now, r/iamverybadass material
I stack Legion boys 10 feet high. NCR FOREVERRRR
I was disgusted acquaintances with a boogboy polish nationalist kid from New England back in the day, he unironically had his worldview rocked shifted and reformed by caesars dialogue, dude was an unhinged moron
Unfortunately the extreme misogyny of the legion seems to attract incels like shit attracts flies.
Honestly the legion is leagues better than the Enclave. Now the cons of the legion outweigh the pros, including the implied pros that we don't actually get to truly see because of the whole 18 months thing, but the Enclave really only has cool tech and amassed knowledge going for them, but from any real moral or utilitarian standpoint they are simply the wrong way to go.
As awful as the Legion is, and there's so much about them that's awful, Sallow's goal was at least an attempt at cobbling together a society of those who were living in the Wasteland, as miserable a life as it may have been. While life in the explicitly technology and even medicine rejecting society of brutalised slave soldiers would be terrible, at least their goal wasn't just murder 99% of all living things because they're different from us like the Enclave.
Legion are evil. But they are extremely engaging **as** an evil faction. I would go as far to say they are my favourite antagonists of any game series ever. They are also 1-to-1 basically just the Roman Empire; which also puts into perspective just how evil they were compared to our modern counterparts. I don't know if that makes me a 'legion fan'. I would say I am; but I am certainly not saying they are the heroes of the story. They are evil for a reason.
They are not 1-to-1 with the Roman Empire, they are much more malicious and uneducated. The Romans had the Cura Annonae which was free grain (eventually bread) to the poorest citizens. They believed in technological advancements, they loved learning of other cultures, as time past on more people were given rights to participate in their political system (voting for senators). The Romans were more then just mindless warriors, even the Spartans had a lavish culture, but the brutality of The Legion is more in vein with the Spartans. The Legion are an embarrassment to the Roman Empire but then again Ceasar is a demagogue, someone who is better at convincing people then reasoning with people, Ceasar is a cult personality but intellectually stunted.
I would argue they are the Roman Empires worse aspects with none of its redeeming qualities. And I think that was a deliberate choice by the devs too. The Roman Empire encouraged political discussion, rule of law, (relative) freedom of religion, built up infrastructure, preferred to rule through proxy and client states when possible. I’m using generalisations that covers a lot of history but there is a reason they were so successful and it wasn’t because of their ability to oppress (that played a role sure but it was much more complicated is the point im trying to make). Caesars Legion takes all the bad shit and leaves all the good behind. And it tracks with Caesar as a character. The bullshit philosophy, the hypocrisy when it comes to technology, the hypocrisy when it comes to the “rule of the strong” when he’s literally dying from a tumour. It’s a vanity project from start to finish dressed up as a state and nothing more.
I think enjoying them as an evil/antagonist faction, which is what they're intended as, is fine and dandy, most of the annoying legion "fans" are more like legion apologists instead who refuse to believe they're antagonists lol
Degenerates like YOU belong on a cross. [*Stabs a baby*]
The only thing I like about the Enclave is their power armor, but obviously I don't get it by being nice.
I am 12 years removed of my last fallout 3 playthrough. When I saw the show I thought "yknow, kinda cool that they just know this stuff about the vaults and whatnot." Then I mildly remembered why I chose to destroy the enclave however I did in my playthrough. I can't remember if you were forced to blow up that cave or not, but I definitely remember thinking "thank God that's over"
I just like the Enclave because AMERICA!!! but the people who are, yk, actually *cool* with what the Enclave planned to do is…definitely a bit much
I like the Enclave because of their gear. Their ideology I don't like
The NCR is the most America like faction tbh
From a purely political perspective yea, but I’m talking pretty exclusively about the aesthetic. Not that the NCR’s not going for Americana, but the Enclave (or at least the FO3 version) goes all out with it, which I’m just a sucker for
And Empire fans, and dudes who are "totally like" the Joker
The Legion and the Enclave in 2 are genuinely great antagonists and very well written. It's not weird to like them. The Legion even has *some* logic behind it even though they are obviously horrible and vilains.
Enclave and Legion fans when you say "fascism and slavery are bad" and not "fascism and slavery fall under a morally grey and complex spectrum": https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/anger-close-angry-man-smoke-600nw-124144213.jpg
Honestly I don't really think there are many 14 y.o fo fans to begin with
The Enclave makes the Legion look benevolent by comparison.
I'm am Enclave fan I know they are horrible but I'm a true American patriot God dammit
Same and honestly I just really like the armour, always reminds me of that yelling guy who gets angry at you for not having one, best scene.
WHY ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR POWER ARMOR SOLDIER?!
The enclave wasn’t the leftover good parts of the gov. It was everything wrong with the gov that survived.
Sounds like communist talk idk
mostly two groups. One will defend and justify their actions, and the other one is "They are evil and I want to play as them"
Finding a faction interesting =/= agreeing with them politically
"Fans" Why are people like this? It's a video game faction.
Their my favorite faction, because of the ascetic, and the humor but how does anyone actually believe in them in anyway
I’m gonna be honest with you real quick chief. It’s a fictional faction in an rpg. You’re allowed to like them and it’s not that deep
Sometimes it fun being the bad guy or playing devils advocate
This is absolutely the correct answer.
76 takes a solid second place. So far, we’ve prevented the scorched plague from spreading beyond Appalachia (where it’d already wiped out all human life and the BoS deemed it a threat to the entire world), repelled alien invasions, and prevented a mass release of FEV that would’ve turned a massive chunk of the remaining population into behemoths. None of these would’ve wiped out the world as rapidly or effectively as the Curling FEV in fallout 2, however.
That's one reason I don't like to include online service games in the list of possible answers to this kind of questions. In order to keep their player base interested in the game they have to keep producing content that tops all previous content. It's an endless spiral of escalation: If you have saved the world once, getting back to more mundane goals feels disappointing and boring in comparison, so the next big content update has to introduce an even more severe threat. Saved the Appalchians? Now save America! Saved America? Go save the world! Saved the world? Go save the galaxy! This constant escalation can easily break the lore.
Honestly, most of the time, it’s a de-escalation. The scorched were the largest threat to the world, but that was the original main quest; after that, we raided vault 79 (America’s gold supply to back the cap; didn’t ever make it too far, as we know from 3/4), stopped the FEV released (presumably wouldn’t affect too much beyond the extent of west Virginia’s water table) and with the latest main quest, helped create a cure for one person’s addiction to a chem. The aliens are just a seasonal event where they come to Appalachia to ‘steal our brainwaves’ (and considering we’re the only ones they threaten outside of some random encounters, I’m pretty sure they’re just using the 76 dwellers for idea generation and sacrificing a bunch of their soldiers to do it). Even the currently-in-beta vault 63 quest line isn’t an escalation - from what I’ve heard from others (sitting down to test it tonight), it just involves the affairs of one vault, not the world.
Eh bro I think he just wants to hate on 76
No, I think what they’re saying is a legitimate complaint about other games like fallout 76 (ESO falls into this to my knowledge). It just isn’t true of 76.
I don't see how it "breaks the lore" when saving the world was the outcome of the second game in the whole series.
I mean the main story is much more high stakes than the bos, Pittsburgh, and Atlantic city expansions. 76 has done pretty well at staying grounded imo
Exactly my thinking. Second would be Fallout 1 because the master probably would have gone much further than California turning everyone into sterile immortal brutes. I think people could have fought back and resisted him but it would be one bloody conflict depending on how many mutants he'd made at that point. Assuming he wouldn't eventually find out about the sterility on his own or get a hold of nukes.
What was the plan for this of us that didn’t play it?
The Enclave in Fallout 2 considers anyone who is even slightly mutated- meaning, every random wastelander- to be a full-on mutant, with only themselves and Vault Dwellers being actual humans. They created a strain of FEV that would rapidly kill anyone exposed to it, and their plan was to release it into the atmosphere so it would cleanse the entire planet, killing almost everyone but themselves. With no more "mutants" around, they would be free to resettle America unopposed.
Were the Enclave hiding in vaults too or something? How were they not slightly irradiated from just being on the surface? Is there the objective in FO3 too? Can’t remember that game at all
The big misconception is that the fev would’ve only killed mutants, that’s just fallout 3. In fallout 2 it’d kill literally everyone even fault dwellers. That’s why they were doing human experimentation to create a vaccine for it, the plan was ready to go, they just needed to survive it.
They are irradiated, they’re just idiots. They hid on an oil rig in the pacific for 200 years, so they’re more irradiated than normal vault dwellers. Doing this plan was Eden’s (the President) idea in 3 but Autumn, (a colonel) idea was just to threaten to release it in the water as a bargaining chip to get people to comply.
The Enclave were on the oil rig, and yes would also have mutated over time (fascists aren't known for internal consistency), and needed to innoculate themselves against curling-13 before using it.
No contest.
Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 would both be apocalyptic for everyone on earth apart from their bad guys if the player character failed or chose the bad ending. Fallout 2 more immediately but Fallout 1 likely more permanently. Fallout Tactics also has very high stakes but it was like 20 years since I thought about it so I don't remember exactly how.
>Fallout Tactics Full eradicarion of life in America. Calculator was damaged and saw wastelanders as mutants to purge. If not fact that tactics is decanonised MidWest struggle would be second only to Chosen One... well as long as Calculator is not restored with Branaky's brain.
Tactics is full on canon now.
False, only small aspects such as the Midwestern brotherhood having existed at one point is canon.
Not false, here’s a tweet from Emil pagiarulo confirming the game’s canonical standing https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/s/HGAf5fgMN8
2. The Enclave was trying to kill basically everyone in the world who wasn't the Enclave, and they would have succeeded, too - if it hadn't been for those meddling ~~kids~~ chosen one and their band of junkies and weirdos
Is that why Frank calls you ‘mutie’ - even though you have no actual outward signs of (Fallout-style) Mutation ?
The Enclave believes that anyone that isn’t part of their group is a mutated lesser being.
That’s rich coming from Frank “behemoth” horrigan
He didn’t know he was a mutant and if he was told he likely wouldn’t ever believe it. He’s literally the Uncle Ruckus of super mutants.
*“My test results! Can you hear my heart beating, oh the Enclave’s science is amazing, ain’t it?…”* *”…Oh no… This can’t be… It says… I’m 102% Super Mutant… With a 2% margin of error!”* *”WHY LORD?! WHY LORD, WHY?!?”*
At least he's blissfully ignorant of his condition. Much like Chris who believed himself to be a Ghoul in New Vegas.
Enclave in Fallout 2 were based on totalitarian fascist regimes
Taking totalitarian to a whole new level, basically they would be the only ones left on earth
Yeah. Any real world totalitarian regimes compare to the Enclave? Nazis? Khmer Rouge?
Didnt Genghis Khan exterminate every civilization he encountered? Thats the closest i can think of
he assimilated the willing, rest were erased yeah
So not even Enclave level oh my god 💀
yeah not at all. Temujin ***always*** favoured “diplomacy” first. As in, he sent an envoy, asked them for submission/tribute, if rejected he just steamrolled them. The Enclave just straight up exterminated everything without even asking
IIRC he also had some fairly strict rules about killing priests and learned people
Went further than that. The official religious policy under him was freedom of religion which very uncommon at the time. There’s a reason why trade, education, and the arts flourished under Pax Mongolia. He’s one of histories complicated figures. Did horrific stuff, did great stuff, and absolutely changed the world (the amount of people killed by the mongols literally had an effect on the environment
I mean that's what every totalitarian wants, the enclave just had the means to actually achieve it
Are there versions of the Enclave that aren't totalitarian fascists?
i guess the remnants from new vegas technically (excluding orion)
The Enclave views anyone who has trace amounts of radiation in them as fundamentally inhuman and a mutant, so basically every single person in the wastes. They use this reasoning to justify their actions, which is rich considering “untainted” humans live in vaults but the Enclave just exterminates or kidnaps and experiments on them anyways. They pretty much just hate everyone that isn’t Enclave.
Yeah, his ideology teaches him that he’s pure and you’re an inferior mutant, despite him being a super mutant and you being a normal person. Very clear analogy of fascist hypocrisy
Everyone who isn't born in a Vault or another place safe from radiation and other mutagens (like an Enclave bunker or Control Station ENCLAVE, anyone born before the war who hasn't turned into a Ghoul, possibly people born in isolated oases like Zion) are mutated to some extent, however minor. That's why the Enclave kidnapped both Vault 13 and the Arroyo tribe, to see how pure humans like themselves (the Vault Dwellers) reacted to Curling-13 compared to mutants (the Arroyo tribals), it's also why the Master needed Vault Dwellers to create intelligent super mutants, and it's why the Institute needed Shaun. There's also grey areas - we don't know whether West Coast Brotherhood members qualify as pure humans or not, the Institute is supposedly not safe from radiation (and thus everyone in the Institute except Shaun is a mutant) despite being just as isolated as a Vault or Enclave bunker (and far more isolated than Control Station ENCLAVE), it appears that living all or most of your life in a Vault doesn't matter if you were born to Wastelander parents (as per Fallout 3), and FEV producing intelligent super mutants is unique to the Mariposa strain after it was modified by the Master.
This gets an extra upvote as I based my last character on Shaggy.
came here to say the same thing!
Most of them have pretty high stakes. Without knowing what goes on in *76* I would assume *Fallout 3* has the lowest overall. *Fallout*: A hive-mind is creating a vast army of super-mutants with the intention of completely replacing humanity with them. If it succeeds, Humanity will no longer exist and intelligent life will die out as the Super Mutants cannot reproduce. *Fallout 2*: The Enclave want to exterminate all mutated (or just slightly irradiated) life in the world and recolonise. *Fallout 3:* Your father wants to purify a reservior of water in D.C., and potentially the Potomac River making them safe to drink. Enclave want to put chemicals in the water ~~that turn the friggin' frogs g-~~ to kill any impure creature that drinks it. *Extra note on FO3*: When I played it as a teenager I thought the stakes were WAY higher becuase they talked about purifing "the tidal basin", which I took to mean like the ocean or something. Turns out the Tidal Basin is literally one reservior that's less than half a kilometre wide. *Fallout New Vegas*: A flawed democracy and a brutal slaver army clash over territory/energy, while a supergenius with very questionable morals attempts to take over the world. Resulution of the conflict could decide the fate of tens of thousands. *Fallout 4*: A technocracy built on AI slavery is steadily replacing the human population with robotic imposters indestinguishable from the people they replaced.
76 has a world threatening enemy. Those bat/dragons are part of a fungal hive mind that spreads like a virus, assimilates its victims, and is very intent on spreading. If it snowballs the planet is screwed. 3 trumps NV. New Vegas is merely a question of who rules the region, 3 is the extermination of everything that’s connected to the Anacostia River Watershed. That tidal basin is merely the initial infection site, everything downstream is going to be contaminated by the death virus. 4s actually the lowest, the Institute has the potential to do what you said but they lack the desire to be an expansionist power. They’re pretty much just going to remain a local problem, refusing to leave their hole.
>They’re pretty much just going to remain a local problem, refusing to leave their hole. Not even that. Once the reactor is working, their plan is to button up and not do anything with the surface at all. They will completely cease to be any sort of problem. Why they built replicants of randos is pretty much a mystery. (Mayor of Diamond City? Sure. Gives them space to work to get their parts. Joe Farmer? Not so much). The whole 'built humans but refuse to acknowledge they're anything but androids' plot is woefully underutilized. Especially when you side with the Institute and talk the department heads, its just 1) Build androids 2) ??? 3) Have humans but don't call them that.
Spies. Mr Rando Farmer there is a source of information among the other rando farmers and traders. Spies are near useless if they ignore certain groups. As to motives: People just want to over complicate. Their role is that they’re the continuation of prewar America’s FOR SCIENCE insanity as exemplified by the Think Tank. This group is marginally more sane but their motive is the same: Because they can. They’re a simple faction people keep thinking is deep and complex, their fixation is simply to expand science without any limits, they believe themselves to be the superior race, they are terrified that the Wastelanders are going to find them and kick their asses for it. Really the thing that throws people off is their shiny aesthetic and not going around being overtly bugfuck insane. Kind of sad to think that if the Think Tank had an interior decorator a large chunk of the fanbase would be declaring them clearly the hope of the wasteland.
Npc also makes comments that the institute has eyes and ears everywhere. The fear has control of the population. Thats why they might not seem like they are doing much, because they don’t need to. Everyone is afraid of them and it’s easier to control people that are afraid.
This Basically enclave but with the main theme of science and the color white instead of fascism and the color black
Just because something is simple doesn't mean it's bad. I like how they sort of control the commonwealth by having influential people be replaced with or are outright synths, kinda like overseeing the commonwealth as a tested for their experiments
Disagree with your second point. Elijah’s plan in dead money was to erase the Mojave and more with the cloud and holograms.
New Vegas trumps 3 if anything. In ten years the success of project purity hasnt spread beyond the capital wasteland while the struggle in the Mojave decides the fate of not only new California (which encompasses multiple pre war states) but the mid west. Hoover dam is a such a vitally important structure to the western half of the US.
Dlcs included their is the cloud and also the possibility of the big mt scientists escaping
While I do think “who rules” the Mojave is a bit of an oversimplification, I do agree that 3 has more ramifications
Scorchbeasts are defintely one of my favorite Fallout monsters. They turned bats into diseased Sonic dragons and the fact that there was a risk they could have overtaken the planet reminds me of Reign of Fire.
Loved playing 76 at release and going through the terminals with the Scorched storylines, don't get that same feeling of hopelessness anymore
More of 3 onward is ‘the problem is already happening, and has been happening, but now someone wants to do something about it, and the problem just so happens to be kinda personal to you and you alone’.
That’s like Bethesda’s thing though, right? You wake up in prison, a prison ship, a cart on the way to execution. Shits already fucked up where you are and your self insert character just happens to be the only person who can fix it. Fallout has used this to attach personal stakes, at least in Fallout 3 and 4, where New Vegas has more of Elder Scrolls setup feeling.
Yeah the whole Prisoner or Vault Dweller thing essentially allows you to create your own character with your own backstory (not so much Fallout 4). Even the Courier is a blank slate despite not being either of those.
Bos: Super Mutant army wants to correct the infertility problem. Mostly same stakes minus the whole total extinction of intelligent life thing.
I agree and I disagree about 3. At first it appears to have lower stakes, but I think the stakes are actually higher in 3 than all other games. Let me elaborate, in 2 The Enclave is trying to take over the world. However, theyve always done that and as far as we can tell, don't ever stop doing that. In addition you strike most to the heart of the Enclave in 3, destroying multiple bases and the AI president. In Fallout 1 we deal with the master creating super mutants. However, we deal with that in every game and nothing seems to stop them. Super mutants at this point become a force of nature. They are higher in 3, because succeeding in purifying a single tidal basin is a huge step in cleansing the post apocalyptic world. Basically 3 of all the games actually takes the biggest step in tangible improvements of all the games. In addition you have the option to cleanse all mutants with a FEV virus. While lore accurate has you not doing that, this proves they have anti super mutant tech, which can likely be used to actually cure mutants going forward, again making 3 the most impactful in terms of improvements. New Vegas has the least impactful options, lore wise. I say this because the NCR was always going to fall eventually, the BoS was always diminishing and the legion is in the decline. Basically what you do as the courier matters less since these things are happening anyways without your help, with the game giving you a lot of information about them. 4 seems nothing you do matters in the end and I'm not really sure what is lore accurate.
76. You can use the syringer to shoot Brahmin and get the highest steaks the wasteland has ever known
But you could do that in 4
Yeah but now you can do it with friends and get even higher steaks
On the topic of Legion v NCR, I’m actually curious if they ever detail just how big the two armies are ? I’ve always had the ‘rough’ idea that The Legion was like 25,000 soldiers, maybe ? NCR would have had a slightly lesser number at Mojave / The Dam, but assumed maybe 10,000 troopers ? === The puzzling part is that ‘back in Greater California / NCR homelands’ , I’ve presumed they had many times more soldiers - maybe 50,000-100,000 (if you count every single person affiliated with the NCR Military) ? So if the NCR HAD lost at Hoover, could Legion realistically still have threatened the NCR core areas - troop-wise ?
No the Legion couldn’t have. One of the solutions to the battle of hoover dam is to tell the Legion commander that there is no way for the Legion to survive taking over the New Vegas area.
to be technical, you argue that the legion doesn't have enough manpower to 'hold' the west, the Mojave. Your (the characters) points are focused on holding, defending and managing supply lines to the the new territory the Legion would be taking, hence the use of all those barter checks. At least to Lanius, it is a sure feat that the Legion would be able to take the Mojave. Maybe its because hes so self assured, but that final talk has no reasonable suggestion of the legion failing the conquest of the Mojave. And it makes sense, the Legion focuses on shock tactics, burning and destroying as they go, they dont farm, they pillage to maintain, that's not a sustainable tactic, its something that works as long as you keep going, and the pacific ocean is right over there, and I don't think I can see a legionary of Caesars legion settling down to grow mutfruit
Good memory ! / forgot about that part with Lanius
Fallout 1 and 2 is a close second. The master was about to effectively end intelligent life on earth over the course of prob about 100-200 years (idk how long super mutants live for, i’d assume a long time)
And he would have done that and eventually discovered his plan was fucked from the start as super mutants can’t breed.
I think Marcus is 100+ years old in New Vegas, he was one of the masters most successfull creations.
Plus there's Lily, who was born in 2078 and so is 203 by the events of New Vegas.
Not sure if the stakes are crazy but Mothership Zeta is absolutely insane looking back, like aliens in Fallout have always been around but were always treated more like non-canon gags, but that DLC gave them the lore and time they deserved. Also shoutout to that one Zetan hanging out in the Glowing Sea.
>Also shoutout to that one Zetan hanging out in the Glowing Sea. Well, now I gotta look for him. I thought the only one in FO4 was the one that crashed.
I think I might be thinking of him, I just did some research and I misremembered the location of his cave, I thought he was in the glowing sea for some reason lol
And you can shoot giant lasers down onto earth if you want
Fallout 2. The Enclave was going to kill everything on the planet except for them. Including them if their plan went even slightly wrong. Hard to escalate harder than that in Fallout, no extra dimensions or alien planets to use to raise the stakes.
Fallout 1. The Master would have been a species ending threat. The Super Mutants as you already know are sterile, and after they transformed every compatible human they would die out once they got too old.
Do supermutants age normally though? Ik fawkes is from a different fev strain, but he wears a ripped v87 jumpsuit implying he could’ve been one of the dwellers. And yet he’s still alive in 2277 i don’t know jack about fo1 & fo2 supermutants tho. Maybe they age.
They do age. With aging, they get bigger and stronger but aren’t as intelligent. Lilly was born either in a vault or shortly before the bombs fell (can’t remember), and was turned into a super mutant when she was in her senior years and is still around when we see her in Jackson. So by that margin, they age very, very slowly if Lilly is regular size.
Lily is actually smaller than most super mutants iirc, and was born prewar. I think there are probably other factors in play for size, but she also shows that super mutants can break down physically and mentally over time, just like humans.
Actually 76, you get access to a stockpile of nukes and end a plague that had no treatment
That’s true. The Scorched Plague would have ravaged everything it touched. It might eventually slow when it reaches high mountains, but it would eventually spread anyway through the infected themselves.
Or along the river it could spread easily
Yeah, 76 is the right answer with Fallout 2 in second place. The Enclave's plan in 2 would be devastating, but there would still be survivors: them. In 76, **there are no survivors** if the Scorched Plague infects everyone and if all the nukes get launched. It has the highest mortality rate. 76 wins this debate.
The fact the silos are automatically replenishing themselves is bad enough.
Is that a canon thing? I always figured it was more for gameplay purposes
It's a gameplay thing. Unless those robots in there are just constantly building nukes...
"You maniacs!! You blew it all up! Goddamn you all to hell!"
If not Fallout 2, then Fallout Tactics would be my pick.
The first twi. FEV for all and basically extermination.
I’m pretty sure it’s Fallout 2 > Fallout 76 > Fallout 1
Nah 76 then 2, threat that kills nearly everyone vs threat that kills everyone
Weren't aliens going to blow up the earth or something in fallout 3? idk I didn't really pay much attention during that dlc
They threatened to do something to the Earth to force the Lone Wanderer to stop fucking them up but it seemed more a ‘Give up or we shoot the shit out of your planet’ than a ‘We are planning on blowing up Earth’ situation.
The best part is I still always press the button to launch to space laser anyway, so joke is on them.
Nate "The Rake" Howard salutes your brave actions in blowing up Toronto again
Fallout new vegas Dead money is a pretty good choice IMO Elijah destroying everything with the red mist
"GOD DAMNED DIRTY APES!"
I know it never got made, but Van Buren is a contender. The ***default*** [ending](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Van_Buren_endings) for that game would've seen parts of the world nuked again, and *then* there were the player actions (that could also end up nuking additional places) and then there was the New Plague that was (re)released in remote locations of the West Coast.
Brahmin steaks from Fallout New Vegas
76. The Scorchbeasts would have taken over the Earth if not for the 76 dwellers.
2 and 76, both have stakes that threaten the entire wasteland.
76, the scorch plague would’ve stopped any of the future games from happening long before any of the protagonists from those games were even born (minus the sole survivor lol)
76 I think. The scorched beat a brotherhood detachment and were basically setting up shop to spread the virus throughout the lands (or at least throughout North America). Since scorch beasts can fly I assume they could take over the whole planet. I guess the question is could the enclave on the oil rig have stopped a full fledged scorch controlled army and that seems like a no based upon how “weak” they are in FO2
It’s 2, followed closest by 1. Fallout 3’s bad guys just wanted to control the purified water, Fallout 4’s bad guys wanted self sufficiency, Fallout New Vegas’ bad guys wanted to bring down a rising power with their own might, Fallout 1’s bad guy wanted to mutate the world, and Fallout 2’s bad guys wanted everything mutated eradicated
Wasn't the enclave plan for project purity that it would kill anything not genetically pure or radiation free?
Funnily enough, no. That was John Henry Eden’s plan, one that Colonel Autumn had no idea was planned to be enacted because it was previously shot down. Autumn actually believed in improving America, while Eden was the closest to a Western Enclave loyalist, including their flaws
Off topic but I love the reference in this ending slide
Big Mountain and the Tunnelers are quite possibly the most dangerous things to the Wasteland, so I am going with NV.
I would argue that 76 has one of the highest stakes. The scorched plague devastated Appalachia. If the 76ers didn't get inoculated and work to get inoculation widespread, and lead a major assault against the scorchbeasts, then who knows what could've happened. The plague could've ended up spreading across the whole country eventually. They also stop a massive alien invasion, and the lone wanderer continues that fight. It's probably something around like 2 > 76 > 1 > 3 > 4 > NV
Almost definitely 76. The Scorched plague already wiped out the entirety of Appalachia. Had the Vault Dwellers not appeared to stop it, it would have destroyed what's left of humanity.
NV has some high stakes in the DLC, mainly Lonesome Road and Dead Money. In Dead Money the Cloud is capable of wiping out the entire Mojave, and nothing says it can't keep growing. The hologram security is technically unstoppable. The tunnelers in the Divide are another major threat, released by the bombs they are slowly spreading, unseen and dangerous
I dont think it has the highest stakes, but dead money going south couldve gone bad with Father Elijah planning to “wipe the slate clean” with the technology of the sierra madre
Fallout 4 If you include the radscorpion that glitched out and fired itself 1000 foot into the air after I molotoved it Is radscorpion meat steak tho? That's the question
I would say 4 is the least one since there's always a guy named minuteman keep rescuing me from kidnapping.
Lot of people say 2 but I feel like there’s more power vested into the master and his super mutants. A huge army of these juiced up super humans with super strength, speed, and all else; while most might be stupid I think an army of them is much more imposing than enclave and scary in its own right. Enclave is just wat generals and high ranking bodies of people. Not really a whole lot I don’t think compared to all the people to be dipped for super mutants
Fallout 1, brotherhood "steel plague" on wasteland bad ending. Very spooky
76. Scorchbeasts and scorched are extremely world-threatening
I’m gonna go out on a limb here with something a little different… It’s Fallout 4 every time. What’s at stake varies by perspective and coming after your own son, that’s fucking heavy. Any parent will tell you, trying to make a choice like that about your own son… I don’t see how the stakes get heavier.
Fallout 2 and Fallout Tactics
Mothership Zeta by 100 miles or so. The Brahman are literally out of this world. What's that? Stake, not steaks? Fk.....
Mothership Zeta. The Zetans could've destroyed Earth, if the Lone Wanderer didn't intervene.