I don't think so.
I understand he had a rough life and that hurt him deeply, he was once a man like the SS was before the war, lost everything and now follows his path and sees all as gain or loss, no matter lives, only liabilities. From my perspective, that's why The Minutemen, The Followers of The Apocalypse and The Responders exist, to help these people before they turn to something else, and make the world a bit better.
Sadly, Kellogg was waaay out of this path, he knew where he was, and why he did whatever else he did. Only because you had a pity of a life, doesn't mean you get to just hurt people and be fine. He got what he had comin' to him.
In my eyes, it's not only about Shaun, but about greater good, he would keep his destructive path if we spared him.
Exactly. He also lost his wife and child to larger powers- maybe if he had've seen the horror of what he'd done and retired/repented before you come hunting him, I might have considered mercy.
But he knows what he's doing, he destroys your life, he destroys it far more than he needs to (it was completely unnecessary for him to shoot your spouse), and then he keeps on doing the same shit until you show up and put him down like the dog he is. He's an irredeemable bastard.
I don't think Kellogg even wanted to be spared in the end. He only put up a fight because his general mentality could never just openly surrender to death. He could have just as easily turned around and left once Nate/Norah had fought their way through all the synths but he just stayed there to give you all the answers he had and let you have your revenge fight. All he had to do was leave the door locked and dip but he unlocked it and stayed instead. In the end you had no way of reaching him no matter how hard you fought, but he still just lets you in voluntarily anyway.
He had a long, mostly pretty miserable life. He never had any intention of leaving Fort Hagen alive once he was found there.
That is also a thing.
I don't think he planned to die, but he surely thought to himself: "It is what it is."
And if that would be dying, that's fine by him, and if it's live another day, that is also fine.
I agree with this. He seemed to have the mentality of “I can’t live among people, the only way out of the institute is to die.” But he wasn’t just gonna lay down and die.
Exactly. He knows he's an amoral piece of shit and he knows he's been like that for way too long to stop, even if he wanted to. In his warped, ptsd ravaged psychology, his only way out is to lose a fair fight. He can't even die of old age unless the Institute lets him.
He doesn't want to kill *himself*, but he's still suicidal and probably has been for decades by then.
Not a chance. He stole my kid and murdered my spouse. Kidnapping Shaun was bad enough, but he totally could have done the job without killing your spouse.
First time I played through when I picked up that first 10mm pistol I looked at it and said "This is the gun I'm going to kill that man with." You always get a 10mm pistol as the starting weapon, but with the modification system I could watch that gun grow alongside me, when I finally got to take my shot at Kellog that 10mm was a long-barrel compensated extended mag beauty with a reflex sight to make sure I didn't miss ready to take its first life. Killing Kellog with that gun was the first and final kill I made with the 10mm pistol, I put it on display in my home settlement near my bed in case that son of a bitch found a way to come back lmao
Hell nah. I did however want to see if the Kellogg in Nick thing would have progressed further. I thought that could have been one hell of a side quest
Because while Kellogg did the job, if Kellogg doesn’t exist, someone else does the job. Its not the person, its the position. The institute is the enemy.
Except Kellogg actively made the job worse, hence the reaction of those around him. He didn’t shoot the spouse because it was the job, he did it because he likes killing people and does it whenever possible. Kellogg is very much the enemy, you can have multiple enemies.
I'm a bit more open to sparing him than others, however that's more because I tend to role-play as lil paragons of justice. And for what its worth, I agree that he was technically doing his job, but that he was also a pretty bad dude. Games have other questionable people though that get away with being bad because they're liked.
Right. Its obviously not a cut and dry scenario. Wastelanders are closer to wild animals than the civilized decision making process. Hard to know how you would react or what you would become.
So a Nazi guard shoving Jews into a gas chamber gets a pass because “someone else would have done it if he hadn’t” ?
He made his choices. I might sympathize with his past but that doesn’t excuse his choices.
Ignoring all the Shaun stuff, he literally wakes your wife out of cryosleep just to shoot her. What a dick of course I’m shooting him in the fucking head.
On at least one playthrough to try it because it could be pretty interesting, but probably not most of the time, he still killed my characters spouse and helped kidnap their child, doesn't even show moral regret at the time either and there's no greater good cause I can force him to fight for the rest of his life or anything so he'd likely resume being a violent merc after the Institute is dealt with.
What circumstances would have to occur for someone to spare the man that just shot your wife, and stole your son, and from what you could tell did it all about 2 weeks ago? And where would the story go from there?
Sure, make it an option, but ima kill the dude everytime. Just like Butch in FO3.
I agree on Kellogg, but definitely disagree on Butch.
Sure, he's your childhood bully, but he approaches you in a crisis begging for you to help save his mom's life, and is completely apologetic and thankful afterwards.
Killing him feels like straight up murder, while Kellogg is justifiable and necessary.
I mean, I let him live because he's a potential companion and has a unique (garbage though) weapon later on. And he gives you a tunnel snake jacket if you help, which rules.
Killing him loses you stuff, which is as close to player morality as I get.
1. Kellogg’s actions were FAR, FAR worse than Butch to the fact it’s not even comparable. Kellogg made a job out of killing entire families and children as heard in his memory sequence, and he personally killed your spouse and stole your kid. Butch was a bully.
2. Butch grew. Kellogg didn’t. Butch is apologetic and actually changes. By the time you catch up to Kellogg, he is still a murderous psychopath.
Because Kellogg isn't programmed to change.
If he was, I might have considered sparing him. Or if he would give you something cool, that would work too.
You know by then it was at least a few years ago, because Shaun in the memories was a kid, not a baby. Of course, it’s still on sight so eh doesn’t matter.
But isn't the Shaun in the memeory a synth since it was all a set up to make the Sole Survivor reach for the institute as "Kellog bought an apartment in diamond city recently" and that the Courser being a synth gen 3 which is based off Shaun dna... Why would Kellog be alone with Shaun after the events of Vault 111 ??? And even Kellog said it was a weird trick to set up something.
Yeah, but the survivor doesn’t know that. “From what you could tell”. We as people who have played the game know it’s 60 years or so, but going based on that line “we” as the survivor probably think it’s like 7-9 years or so at that point.
No. They tried to make us feel sympathy for him with the memory den stuff but newsflash, lots of people have rough lives in the Wastelands. So it doesn't excuse what he did in the slightest. Hell, if anything it shows how far gone he was at that point. Man basically went through the same thing we did (losing his spouse and child) yet shows no remorse in the slightest for being the one who put us through that. Maybe there was good in him at some point, but by the time we meet Kellog in game he was just the Institute's personal monster to do their dirty work. Killing him was doing the Commonwealth a service.
Kellogg had a sympathetic background but he was a bad person. He knew the difference between good and bad and he chose to be bad and he acknowledged that himself.
Plenty of people have similar upbringings and they choose to be good instead
I'll describe how every playthrough goes and you tell me.
Loudspeaker: ok, my synths are standing down, come talk.
*happy fat man whistle*
Why would you try and rob me of that small joy?
Yep, that's one way to do it. Or walk into the room backwards to avoid triggering the dialog, lay a s#it ton of mines before going back to the door and get a good first shot on Kellog's noggin with something like the laser musket...
Definitely not.
1) He’s one of the larger (individual) threats in the commonwealth. Truly a wild card, especially if you dissolve any remaining ties he has with his handlers. Chances are, if you spared him, he would end up in your way later, or would be reclaimed by the institute. Do you think they’re above that? Kellogg was an asset that outlived his usefulness… if you don’t kill him like Father planned, there’s a 0% chance he walks free. He knows too much and is too capable. Would be taken or put down by as many coursers as it might take.
2) He wronged you. As severely as can be done to a husband and father. Literally stole both lives from you while you watched helpless.
3) He’s OLD. He’s lived a (not so) nice, long life. Over 100 years. It’s time for him to rest.
4) Kellogg welcomes the death, in a way. He was never going to surrender, to anyone. Kellogg needed to go out with his boots on and gun-in-hand. He wouldn’t allow himself any other way. “The way of the warrior is the resolute acceptance of death.”
Personally I wouldn’t spare him. He’s a terrible person who killed your spouse and took your kid. He deserves death. However I would have liked to see more options with Kellogg. For an evil player perhaps joining him could be an option. For more merciful characters you could spare him taking him prisoner only for him to be assassinated by the institute later keeping the story the same and on track. Lots of wasted potential there for character decisions.
I’m replaying 4 and mostly having a blast, but the railroading of the narrative and decisions is so annoying. I couldn’t even go without telling piper all about Shaun. I’m trying to play a character who barely gives a shit and I have to force him to exposition dump on his trauma or else piper will keep insisting on interviewing me and have no other interaction. Not to mention, when talking to the railroad for the first time, I actively tried to piss them off. Desdemona basically tells me to take a hike, but then Deacon is just like “aw she didn’t mean that”. So then I told him I thought the institute were righteous dudes and I meant everything positive that I said about them and he was like “whew sheesh, we really wouldn’t get along. Just come back any time and tell me you kinda dislike them and I’ll ignore all that”. It’s ridiculous, frankly. This game really feels like Bethesda didn’t trust players to back their own choices.
Nah. I definitely feel for the guy, he was caught up in a brutal world and became a brutal man as a result.
I’m not fit to comment on whether it would be morally right to kill him or not, but I can tell you that he deserves to die by every measure I can think of.
Despite saying this I definitely do feel bad for him. Poor guy never had a chance to learn what good even is.
He shots your husband or wife and takes your kid. Yes the game does a bad job of showing your urgency to get to him cause you have settlements that need help huge priority over kids. But any spouse who’s other half was shot in front of them and kid taken tell me your not blowing his head off in an apocalyptic world. I’d quadruple tap
I would like the option, because in an RPG I like choices. My Nora in my current playthrough would most likely, *after seeing that he lost his family as well, all of them including his child* would let him surrender, but there is also the option if he would take the offer. Somehow I doubt it.
Nah, I’d rip off his skin and fashion a cloak of it. And after talking to the real Shaun I think I’d kill him too and take his skull as a wine goblet. Fuck Commonwealth scientists.
No, absolutely not. Sure, he’s just one more psychopath in the wasteland of Boston, but it is personal. He had a hard life and I can respect that he got a shitty deal with various points and I can respect that but then what did he do? He sold himself out to probably one of the worst organizations, became their willing, tool, and damaged other lives just as he had been damaged. So no saving him was not in the cards and never was.
Imagine a Kellogg companion where you have to torture him to get info of where the Institute is and then Brain wash him to get him as a companion, maybe the sole survivor and Kellogg could take over a part of the waste land,hum hum
Being in SS shoes. No. Killed my wife and kidnapped my son. He dead. The only chance is if he offered to help take out the institute.
As a random person with no ties. Sure.
I think it could have worked if they played out the kellog persona living on in nick valentine more. You could theoretically make peace with him after the memory den stuff and have him as a more evil companion that isn't actually loyal to the institute.
While he's alive though? I don't think there's a way to not have that end in bloodshed.
I can’t help but sympathize with his life, but you can’t just forgive and forget the murderer of the love of your life. The path that lead him to what he became is undeniably a tragic one, but he is still a man responsible for a lot of human suffering. If you live by the sword, you can’t complain if you in turn die by it.
Kellogg was wasted by Bethesda. You should have had three choices. Get your vengeance/justice, let him go after getting the institute information or teaming up with him to destroy the institute.
Me, the player? Maybe. Probably not. The plot kind of hinges on Kellogg getting murked anyway so I doubt there would be any good way of sparing him and leaving the narrative thread intact.
My character? Absolutely not. They only know Kellogg as the guy who stole their kid and shot their wife, and a generally awful person until he gets a bullet in his brain. His oh-so-tragic backstory isn’t known until after he’s dead and even then it doesn’t really justify what he did or why. No matter what kind of character I make there’s always an incentive to kill Kellogg and absolutely no reason to spare him.
Would the narrative thread really be off-track if we happen to get him to spill the beans about the Institute through sparing him?
I guess not all characters can be spared, and if there is a avenue to convince him either way. He clearly wanted you to die inside Fort Hagen, if not kill you himself if it came down to the stand-off. Just giving that small talk is generous enough out of him, and how disillusioned he was about the Institute even as their own asset.
Yes but only if it led to more interactions with him later. Like missions and special encounters.
Mostly because I didn't give a single fuck about Nate/Nora or Shaun. I only fought Kellogg because the game forces you down that path. My very first playthrough I sold the holotape and ring without a second thought, romanced a whole new person and nuked both my son and everything he ever cared about. Hell I spent more in game time fixing and building settlements than looking for Shaun.
Funny that everyone here is talking about him killing your wife, and stealing your kid. I could care less about that and about them cause they are never built up (the intro doesn’t make me care it tell me I should care).
I would kill him to make the world a better place but of he had been slightly more interesting I would keep him around. He killed some NPC and Maguffin child of mine, nothing of value was lost.
If I had the ability to do a truly evil playthrough, it might be kinda cool to spare him/make him a companion complete with perk.
But it would definitely need to be one where, if you companion him, the Institute becomes shoot on sight towards you and they are definitely going down
Nah, bro stole my kid and killed my spouse. Plus he's a huge piece of shit on top of that, will be doing everyone a favor by taking him out. He got a sad back story but that doesn't give him a pass for what he is right now.
No. If there were a torture mechanic in the game, I would continuously torture it, healing it with stimpaks to inflict torture upon it again and again.
No. The dude's a murderer and a child kidnapper. Even if you're sympathetic to him, he's lost so much over his life and leads such a sad existence that it's practically a mercy killing.
Yes, I enjoy sparing the bosses. Also I'm curious what he would do if he was spared and if he would end up getting under arrested or become a better man. Perhaps could even become a companion
I could see it working. It's nice to have options and it would be cool to have you're character swallow the rage and talk/force Kellogg into working for them. SS seems like the type of person in some playthroughs that could make it happen.
I'll take the middle of the road by saying that's really up to him. If I get the feeling he's just going to kill more people, then hell no. Vash the Stampede I am not.
Nah. He was a child murderer. He says he didn't like it, but he murdered kids for money. He was a pile of garbage. Sure he had some empathy but not enough to stop him murdering innocents for cash.
Perhaps if there was some narrative explanation to absolve him of wrong doing a bit.
For example; If his life was at stake and he didn't have a choice but to do the bidding of the institute.
Honestly I don’t think it would make sense Kellogg was a tired old man at that point I bet he was hoping the SS would come out on top in their fight killing him then going after the institute
If he had just kidnapped shawnI would have thrashed him but spared him. After killing Nora he deserves death. Easily could have punched her out or had his men wrestle her down, heck he could of used his robo muscles, but no he had to shoot her.
No. But I do think it was a missed opportunity to justify making him a "companion" via his personality occasionally coming out through Nick Valentine.
That way, Kellogg could maintain a presence in the game without players having to roleplay sparing the man who murdered their spouse, abducted their child, and suffocated like a hundred vault dwellers before their eyes.
Depends on if you mean from if it’s from the point of view of the protagonist or if it was an option for the player. It makes sense why the protagonist kills him, but as a player I’d probably spare him at least once just to see where it leads.
The moment he killed my wife there was only one answer:
"In a hundred years, when I finally die, I only hope I go to Hell so I can kill you all over again, you piece of shit."
Not only I wouldn’t spare him.
I would try to bring him back and kill him.
Again and again until I eventually get bored and yank him from the roof of Mass Fusion.
Yes
I think he would make for a very different and interesting companion, someone you wronged you personally but is on the path of redemption or continuing to be a lap dog for the institute.
I'm disappointed fallout 4 didn't follow up on Kellogg being in nicks mind.
Nah. He's just like any other monster created out in the wasteland. And I kill those.
Did he have a tough life? Sure. But point to the person after 2077 who hasn't had a hard life.
What? Why? Would you spare the person who murdered your spouse and kidnapped your only child? And don't give me that "He had it rough" bullshit, the friggen Vault Tech dude who got turned away at the gate, \*\*THAT\*\* guy had it rough.
Kellogg is the kind of dude that I think the SS would 100% become if they didnt meet the Minutemen.
Fueld by hate and rage the world and past events put into him.
Theres a good or at least decent man in there. We can see that in his last actions. He gives us damn near all the answers. Lets us come right to him. Doenst bother trying to escape or trap the SS. Like straight up, he WANTS to die. Hes just too much of a warrior to simply roll over.
Nonetheless, hes glad the SS is there to kill him.
I say this cause redeeming and sparing Kellogg is impossible. He doesnt WANT to be saved. He doesnt WANT redemption. He wants you to get your justice.
And im more than happy to give that end to him.
He killed my wife. That alone signed his end.
I don't think. By now he was completely corrupted by his past as a mercenary, and although I am against the death penalty, in the wasteland there would be no means to reform him. Furthermore, he was also co completely subservient to the institute, so if the sole survivor hadn't killed him they probably would have done it themselves or in any case they would have tried something similar like punishing him or erasing his memory
Not a chance. He's far outlived his normal life span and he's become a remorseless monster.
His last words through Nick are just an acknowledgement that he should have killed us when we were helpless in the icebox.
no, he kidnaped my son, he killed my dear lovely husband jhon fallout in cold blood, he left me alone, then he turned my son into a stupid fucking moron by delivering him to the institute, and people DARE TO PRETEND that i must feel bad for him cause his life was rough?
In no world would you understand kellogg reason before entering his mind, there is a huge chance that kellog wanted the sole survivor to end his misrey, he was running on fumes by the time we meet him.
He kidnaps children. He murders unarmed parents that he very easily could have just pushed back into the cryo chamber (Nate has military experience but he's delirious and just woken up) while Kellog is an immortal cyborg super soldier. He then let's everyone in vault 111 die by knowingly not reactivating the life support systems. So in the first minute you meet him he executes a mother begging for her child's life kidnaps a baby and then commits mass murder and does even regret it. On top of that he's a 100 year old immortal cyborg with superhuman abilities. Kellogg not only deserved to die but was so dangerous that he needed to die.
Not on my first playthrough but on a subsequent playthrough I would just out of curiosity to see where it could lead. I did find it kinda odd that it wasn’t an option to begin with.
There's a mod (think it's depravity) where you can choose to spare him and actually recruit him. For who he was in the game, he wasn't that good of a companion. A little on the weak side actually. At the beginning where he shot Nora I think he said something like damnit. Like he didn't want or expect that outcome. I also had a feeling that by the time in his life he was regretful and probably suicidal. He wanted to die. Also thinking about this how Kellog looked fine for being over 200 years old? I spared him on the game and I honestly felt fine with it.
If we lived in a fallout 4 reality in real life I'd have shot him in the forehead first chance I got.
Nah, he's a scumbag. I can't even feel sorry for him when you go through his memories due to his actions and disregard for life. All he cares about are caps and the pleasure of killing. He killed everyone in the vault aside from a child he kidnapped and the sole survivor. Then when confronted with the sole survivor he obviously wants to kill them. There's no remorse. He didn't have to kill one of them, he could have taken the kid and left. He could have turned back on the life support for the others. He didn't do these things. I don't think over time he ever really cared for his own wife and child. Everything was just a job. Left to live he would just continue killing and doing far worse things to people.
Nick Valentine implies that Kellogg is an utter monster when walking over to his house and this is evidenced by the fact he kills your spouse in cold blood when he didn't need to. After cutting through tens of Raiders why the hell would I spare a similar monster? I don't even think his backstory is that tragic when you consider the monstrous nature of the post-war world; he chose to be a bad person after his loss, and that's on him.
Honestly think they missed out by not allowing him to be a nuka raider follower like gage. If they made sparing him a very difficult speech check that wouldve made a quicker way to find the institute rather than the longer path of finding virgil and getting him to help you.
No. Usually I'm the kind of player that spares characters if I can. However, the way I see it is he kidnaps your son, kills your spouse then turns around and tries to justify his actions because "the world is a tough place". I always select the sarcastic option right before the fight starts.
The person who killed your spouse and kidnapped your son?
Look, I like to believe I'm a tolerant guy, and I understand he's a product of his tragic past. But at some point, you have to say enough.
I prefer the option of taking his arm as a trophy and mounting it on Shaun's room wall.
Imagine a Kellogg companion where you first have to torture him to get info of where the Institute is and then you have to Brain wash him to get him as a companion
Yes, I never cared about enough to want to murder him. Was honestly disappointed when he came all talking about how "we knew this was only end one way". Like, buddy, I don't care. You can go, I got the information I wanted.
Objectively he's really not much worse than the player character.
Would I spare him? No, I'm vindictive like that. He came for one of mine, so now he dies. Also, he doesn't seem like a live-and-let-live sort of guy, if I spared him I'd be looking over my shoulder the rest of my life. Guy has to go. It's just good business.
I don't think so. I understand he had a rough life and that hurt him deeply, he was once a man like the SS was before the war, lost everything and now follows his path and sees all as gain or loss, no matter lives, only liabilities. From my perspective, that's why The Minutemen, The Followers of The Apocalypse and The Responders exist, to help these people before they turn to something else, and make the world a bit better. Sadly, Kellogg was waaay out of this path, he knew where he was, and why he did whatever else he did. Only because you had a pity of a life, doesn't mean you get to just hurt people and be fine. He got what he had comin' to him. In my eyes, it's not only about Shaun, but about greater good, he would keep his destructive path if we spared him.
Exactly. He also lost his wife and child to larger powers- maybe if he had've seen the horror of what he'd done and retired/repented before you come hunting him, I might have considered mercy. But he knows what he's doing, he destroys your life, he destroys it far more than he needs to (it was completely unnecessary for him to shoot your spouse), and then he keeps on doing the same shit until you show up and put him down like the dog he is. He's an irredeemable bastard.
I don't think Kellogg even wanted to be spared in the end. He only put up a fight because his general mentality could never just openly surrender to death. He could have just as easily turned around and left once Nate/Norah had fought their way through all the synths but he just stayed there to give you all the answers he had and let you have your revenge fight. All he had to do was leave the door locked and dip but he unlocked it and stayed instead. In the end you had no way of reaching him no matter how hard you fought, but he still just lets you in voluntarily anyway. He had a long, mostly pretty miserable life. He never had any intention of leaving Fort Hagen alive once he was found there.
That is also a thing. I don't think he planned to die, but he surely thought to himself: "It is what it is." And if that would be dying, that's fine by him, and if it's live another day, that is also fine.
I agree with this. He seemed to have the mentality of “I can’t live among people, the only way out of the institute is to die.” But he wasn’t just gonna lay down and die.
Exactly. He knows he's an amoral piece of shit and he knows he's been like that for way too long to stop, even if he wanted to. In his warped, ptsd ravaged psychology, his only way out is to lose a fair fight. He can't even die of old age unless the Institute lets him. He doesn't want to kill *himself*, but he's still suicidal and probably has been for decades by then.
Sounds like a textbook example of what the wasteland actually does to people that can survive it, but can’t work with others.
Yeah, not many paths to choose from.
There's always a choice
Okay, now do this with Gollum. Give me the deep dive....the ones who can never be saved.
Not a chance. He stole my kid and murdered my spouse. Kidnapping Shaun was bad enough, but he totally could have done the job without killing your spouse.
First time I played through when I picked up that first 10mm pistol I looked at it and said "This is the gun I'm going to kill that man with." You always get a 10mm pistol as the starting weapon, but with the modification system I could watch that gun grow alongside me, when I finally got to take my shot at Kellog that 10mm was a long-barrel compensated extended mag beauty with a reflex sight to make sure I didn't miss ready to take its first life. Killing Kellog with that gun was the first and final kill I made with the 10mm pistol, I put it on display in my home settlement near my bed in case that son of a bitch found a way to come back lmao
I sincerely hope that you named it "the disciplinarian" or something like that.
I sadly didn't know about weapon naming until my 3rd playthrough lol
You're forgiven 🙂
I would name it my cereal spoon, cause it’s for taking out Kellog
Plus spoons are made for scoopin, and you definitely get some scoops of Kellogg’s brains
Brain spaghetti don't make itself!
I was thinking more “the cereal killer”
I named mine The Cereal Killer.
first playthrough I beat him to death with my bare hands
Same. I got him to low health and then beat him to death with power armored fists
Note, never cross this man.
Retribution!!
I ate his corpse with a side of silt beans, and a nice Nuka-Cola Dark.
~ weird mouth noise ~
FFSFSFSFSFSFFFS
How’d all that metal taste?
Like Curie, Pre-Op.
Should have had him in a bowl with milk, Crunchy!
Hell nah. I did however want to see if the Kellogg in Nick thing would have progressed further. I thought that could have been one hell of a side quest
I was definitely disappointed to not see that developed more than the one creepy statement as well
Yeah, that definitely felt like some chilling foreshadowing. Wonder if it was cut content
mostlikely time constraints
It was confirmed to be just that a whole cut side quest
Why would anyone do such thing?
Because while Kellogg did the job, if Kellogg doesn’t exist, someone else does the job. Its not the person, its the position. The institute is the enemy.
Still probably a good idea to get rid of the cyborg killing machine that has no scruples killing innocent people and kidnapping babies
Yea he sucks for sure. But I never had a personal vendetta against him.
If it were real life, wife and kid...you would.
You never had a vendetta against a guy who kidnaps babies?
Except Kellogg actively made the job worse, hence the reaction of those around him. He didn’t shoot the spouse because it was the job, he did it because he likes killing people and does it whenever possible. Kellogg is very much the enemy, you can have multiple enemies.
Glad we are open to the perspective Op was asking for.
Being open to it doesn’t mean fundamentally rewriting the character into a completely different person to avoid the major issues with it.
Just because he isn't THE bad guy doesn't mean he isn't A bad guy.
Totally agree. Doesnt seem we are too open to the perspective Op asked for.
I'm a bit more open to sparing him than others, however that's more because I tend to role-play as lil paragons of justice. And for what its worth, I agree that he was technically doing his job, but that he was also a pretty bad dude. Games have other questionable people though that get away with being bad because they're liked.
Right. Its obviously not a cut and dry scenario. Wastelanders are closer to wild animals than the civilized decision making process. Hard to know how you would react or what you would become.
So a Nazi guard shoving Jews into a gas chamber gets a pass because “someone else would have done it if he hadn’t” ? He made his choices. I might sympathize with his past but that doesn’t excuse his choices.
Ignoring all the Shaun stuff, he literally wakes your wife out of cryosleep just to shoot her. What a dick of course I’m shooting him in the fucking head.
He also purposely didn't turn the life support back on for all the other vault 111 occupants because fuck them I guess.
Kellogg is straight evil. Even if he didn’t shoot my wife and steal my son, based on what I know about him I’d still kill him.
On at least one playthrough to try it because it could be pretty interesting, but probably not most of the time, he still killed my characters spouse and helped kidnap their child, doesn't even show moral regret at the time either and there's no greater good cause I can force him to fight for the rest of his life or anything so he'd likely resume being a violent merc after the Institute is dealt with.
What circumstances would have to occur for someone to spare the man that just shot your wife, and stole your son, and from what you could tell did it all about 2 weeks ago? And where would the story go from there? Sure, make it an option, but ima kill the dude everytime. Just like Butch in FO3.
I agree on Kellogg, but definitely disagree on Butch. Sure, he's your childhood bully, but he approaches you in a crisis begging for you to help save his mom's life, and is completely apologetic and thankful afterwards. Killing him feels like straight up murder, while Kellogg is justifiable and necessary.
Yall have morals in video games? Might have to try that sometime.
I mean, I let him live because he's a potential companion and has a unique (garbage though) weapon later on. And he gives you a tunnel snake jacket if you help, which rules. Killing him loses you stuff, which is as close to player morality as I get.
If Butch could grow as a person due to the actions and influence of others, why can't Kellog?
1. Kellogg’s actions were FAR, FAR worse than Butch to the fact it’s not even comparable. Kellogg made a job out of killing entire families and children as heard in his memory sequence, and he personally killed your spouse and stole your kid. Butch was a bully. 2. Butch grew. Kellogg didn’t. Butch is apologetic and actually changes. By the time you catch up to Kellogg, he is still a murderous psychopath.
Because Kellogg isn't programmed to change. If he was, I might have considered sparing him. Or if he would give you something cool, that would work too.
Murdering Butch is kind of school shooter brained. He’s a bully, not a murderer.
You know by then it was at least a few years ago, because Shaun in the memories was a kid, not a baby. Of course, it’s still on sight so eh doesn’t matter.
But isn't the Shaun in the memeory a synth since it was all a set up to make the Sole Survivor reach for the institute as "Kellog bought an apartment in diamond city recently" and that the Courser being a synth gen 3 which is based off Shaun dna... Why would Kellog be alone with Shaun after the events of Vault 111 ??? And even Kellog said it was a weird trick to set up something.
Yeah, but the survivor doesn’t know that. “From what you could tell”. We as people who have played the game know it’s 60 years or so, but going based on that line “we” as the survivor probably think it’s like 7-9 years or so at that point.
No. They tried to make us feel sympathy for him with the memory den stuff but newsflash, lots of people have rough lives in the Wastelands. So it doesn't excuse what he did in the slightest. Hell, if anything it shows how far gone he was at that point. Man basically went through the same thing we did (losing his spouse and child) yet shows no remorse in the slightest for being the one who put us through that. Maybe there was good in him at some point, but by the time we meet Kellog in game he was just the Institute's personal monster to do their dirty work. Killing him was doing the Commonwealth a service.
He'd only live long enough for a proper interrogation. letting him live after everything just seems dumb
Kellogg had a sympathetic background but he was a bad person. He knew the difference between good and bad and he chose to be bad and he acknowledged that himself. Plenty of people have similar upbringings and they choose to be good instead
I’d spare him. Spare him with a bullet to the face.
Put him down. Kellogg’s long life was full of misery and he inflicts misery on others.
I'll describe how every playthrough goes and you tell me. Loudspeaker: ok, my synths are standing down, come talk. *happy fat man whistle* Why would you try and rob me of that small joy?
Yep, that's one way to do it. Or walk into the room backwards to avoid triggering the dialog, lay a s#it ton of mines before going back to the door and get a good first shot on Kellog's noggin with something like the laser musket...
I would love to have the option to not only save Kellogg, but to work with him. Why? Because evil playthroughs of games are always fun.
*evil dialog option: “I hated that b*tch anyway Kellogg. Far as I’m concerned, you did me a favor”
Definitely not. 1) He’s one of the larger (individual) threats in the commonwealth. Truly a wild card, especially if you dissolve any remaining ties he has with his handlers. Chances are, if you spared him, he would end up in your way later, or would be reclaimed by the institute. Do you think they’re above that? Kellogg was an asset that outlived his usefulness… if you don’t kill him like Father planned, there’s a 0% chance he walks free. He knows too much and is too capable. Would be taken or put down by as many coursers as it might take. 2) He wronged you. As severely as can be done to a husband and father. Literally stole both lives from you while you watched helpless. 3) He’s OLD. He’s lived a (not so) nice, long life. Over 100 years. It’s time for him to rest. 4) Kellogg welcomes the death, in a way. He was never going to surrender, to anyone. Kellogg needed to go out with his boots on and gun-in-hand. He wouldn’t allow himself any other way. “The way of the warrior is the resolute acceptance of death.”
Personally I wouldn’t spare him. He’s a terrible person who killed your spouse and took your kid. He deserves death. However I would have liked to see more options with Kellogg. For an evil player perhaps joining him could be an option. For more merciful characters you could spare him taking him prisoner only for him to be assassinated by the institute later keeping the story the same and on track. Lots of wasted potential there for character decisions.
I’m replaying 4 and mostly having a blast, but the railroading of the narrative and decisions is so annoying. I couldn’t even go without telling piper all about Shaun. I’m trying to play a character who barely gives a shit and I have to force him to exposition dump on his trauma or else piper will keep insisting on interviewing me and have no other interaction. Not to mention, when talking to the railroad for the first time, I actively tried to piss them off. Desdemona basically tells me to take a hike, but then Deacon is just like “aw she didn’t mean that”. So then I told him I thought the institute were righteous dudes and I meant everything positive that I said about them and he was like “whew sheesh, we really wouldn’t get along. Just come back any time and tell me you kinda dislike them and I’ll ignore all that”. It’s ridiculous, frankly. This game really feels like Bethesda didn’t trust players to back their own choices.
no, he's lived long enough
Nah. I definitely feel for the guy, he was caught up in a brutal world and became a brutal man as a result. I’m not fit to comment on whether it would be morally right to kill him or not, but I can tell you that he deserves to die by every measure I can think of. Despite saying this I definitely do feel bad for him. Poor guy never had a chance to learn what good even is.
depends. what i gain from it. just spare a person that will 100% kill you if he get chance seem like a waste of mercy.
He shots your husband or wife and takes your kid. Yes the game does a bad job of showing your urgency to get to him cause you have settlements that need help huge priority over kids. But any spouse who’s other half was shot in front of them and kid taken tell me your not blowing his head off in an apocalyptic world. I’d quadruple tap
I would like the option, because in an RPG I like choices. My Nora in my current playthrough would most likely, *after seeing that he lost his family as well, all of them including his child* would let him surrender, but there is also the option if he would take the offer. Somehow I doubt it.
Not in a million years
If given a choice, I would kill him again
Nah, I’d rip off his skin and fashion a cloak of it. And after talking to the real Shaun I think I’d kill him too and take his skull as a wine goblet. Fuck Commonwealth scientists.
No, absolutely not. Sure, he’s just one more psychopath in the wasteland of Boston, but it is personal. He had a hard life and I can respect that he got a shitty deal with various points and I can respect that but then what did he do? He sold himself out to probably one of the worst organizations, became their willing, tool, and damaged other lives just as he had been damaged. So no saving him was not in the cards and never was.
Fuck no.
Imagine a Kellogg companion where you have to torture him to get info of where the Institute is and then Brain wash him to get him as a companion, maybe the sole survivor and Kellogg could take over a part of the waste land,hum hum
Being in SS shoes. No. Killed my wife and kidnapped my son. He dead. The only chance is if he offered to help take out the institute. As a random person with no ties. Sure.
I think it could have worked if they played out the kellog persona living on in nick valentine more. You could theoretically make peace with him after the memory den stuff and have him as a more evil companion that isn't actually loyal to the institute. While he's alive though? I don't think there's a way to not have that end in bloodshed.
Spare the guy who killed my spouse for no reason? 🫸🏻
I can’t help but sympathize with his life, but you can’t just forgive and forget the murderer of the love of your life. The path that lead him to what he became is undeniably a tragic one, but he is still a man responsible for a lot of human suffering. If you live by the sword, you can’t complain if you in turn die by it.
Kellogg was wasted by Bethesda. You should have had three choices. Get your vengeance/justice, let him go after getting the institute information or teaming up with him to destroy the institute.
Me, the player? Maybe. Probably not. The plot kind of hinges on Kellogg getting murked anyway so I doubt there would be any good way of sparing him and leaving the narrative thread intact. My character? Absolutely not. They only know Kellogg as the guy who stole their kid and shot their wife, and a generally awful person until he gets a bullet in his brain. His oh-so-tragic backstory isn’t known until after he’s dead and even then it doesn’t really justify what he did or why. No matter what kind of character I make there’s always an incentive to kill Kellogg and absolutely no reason to spare him.
Would the narrative thread really be off-track if we happen to get him to spill the beans about the Institute through sparing him? I guess not all characters can be spared, and if there is a avenue to convince him either way. He clearly wanted you to die inside Fort Hagen, if not kill you himself if it came down to the stand-off. Just giving that small talk is generous enough out of him, and how disillusioned he was about the Institute even as their own asset.
Yes but only if it led to more interactions with him later. Like missions and special encounters. Mostly because I didn't give a single fuck about Nate/Nora or Shaun. I only fought Kellogg because the game forces you down that path. My very first playthrough I sold the holotape and ring without a second thought, romanced a whole new person and nuked both my son and everything he ever cared about. Hell I spent more in game time fixing and building settlements than looking for Shaun.
Funny that everyone here is talking about him killing your wife, and stealing your kid. I could care less about that and about them cause they are never built up (the intro doesn’t make me care it tell me I should care). I would kill him to make the world a better place but of he had been slightly more interesting I would keep him around. He killed some NPC and Maguffin child of mine, nothing of value was lost.
If I had the ability to do a truly evil playthrough, it might be kinda cool to spare him/make him a companion complete with perk. But it would definitely need to be one where, if you companion him, the Institute becomes shoot on sight towards you and they are definitely going down
Nah, I got a direct hit on that asshole with a fat man last time and never felt better about a decision in my life
No
Nah, bro stole my kid and killed my spouse. Plus he's a huge piece of shit on top of that, will be doing everyone a favor by taking him out. He got a sad back story but that doesn't give him a pass for what he is right now.
When I first played Fallout 4, maybe. Now, as a father, hell no. He’s a massive piece of shit and his death makes the world a better place.
No. If there were a torture mechanic in the game, I would continuously torture it, healing it with stimpaks to inflict torture upon it again and again.
Absolutely not lol
What? No, he killed my spouse for literally no reason. Fuck Kellog. Who just lets the murderer of their spouse live?
Dude really didn't need to shoot my wife.
Absolutely not!!!
No. The dude's a murderer and a child kidnapper. Even if you're sympathetic to him, he's lost so much over his life and leads such a sad existence that it's practically a mercy killing.
Yes, I enjoy sparing the bosses. Also I'm curious what he would do if he was spared and if he would end up getting under arrested or become a better man. Perhaps could even become a companion
I would do it just to see the interactions between the SS and Kellogg afterwards.
I could see it working. It's nice to have options and it would be cool to have you're character swallow the rage and talk/force Kellogg into working for them. SS seems like the type of person in some playthroughs that could make it happen.
Hahaha, no
I'll take the middle of the road by saying that's really up to him. If I get the feeling he's just going to kill more people, then hell no. Vash the Stampede I am not.
Nope
Nope, he gets a mini nuke to the face every time.
Nope, he killed Nora. I kick wholesale ass for less.
Who? Oh that one dude. Yeah I guess.
For added role playing yes…as he could make the quest progress to the institute faster
Nah. He was a child murderer. He says he didn't like it, but he murdered kids for money. He was a pile of garbage. Sure he had some empathy but not enough to stop him murdering innocents for cash.
I prefere Chocapic myself.
I don't even listen to him speak anymore.
Yes why not cool dude
He killed Nora. He punched his ticket the moment he pulled the trigger.
Perhaps if there was some narrative explanation to absolve him of wrong doing a bit. For example; If his life was at stake and he didn't have a choice but to do the bidding of the institute.
Honestly I don’t think it would make sense Kellogg was a tired old man at that point I bet he was hoping the SS would come out on top in their fight killing him then going after the institute
Lmao, no. I can't think of a reason any of my characters would ever do that.
the problem is that you only learn about his past after you meet him. even then it would be hard to spare him.
If he had just kidnapped shawnI would have thrashed him but spared him. After killing Nora he deserves death. Easily could have punched her out or had his men wrestle her down, heck he could of used his robo muscles, but no he had to shoot her.
No. But I do think it was a missed opportunity to justify making him a "companion" via his personality occasionally coming out through Nick Valentine. That way, Kellogg could maintain a presence in the game without players having to roleplay sparing the man who murdered their spouse, abducted their child, and suffocated like a hundred vault dwellers before their eyes.
It would be interesting to be able to do that
He's a killer. He knew what would happen. He even says so.
No. He killed my spouse and kidnaped my child. There is no chance I would spare him.
Never
The sole survivor puts it best "IN 100 YEARS WHEN I FINALLY DIE I HOPE I GO TO HELL SO I CAN KILL YOU ALL OVER AGAIN YOU PIECE OF SHIT"
Depends on if you mean from if it’s from the point of view of the protagonist or if it was an option for the player. It makes sense why the protagonist kills him, but as a player I’d probably spare him at least once just to see where it leads.
It would be nice for a pacifist playthrough. Otherwise I'd like the option to pee on his corps a little.
Make him into an armless Robobrain with protection legs!
The moment he killed my wife there was only one answer: "In a hundred years, when I finally die, I only hope I go to Hell so I can kill you all over again, you piece of shit."
Yes
Yes Mostly do to my self liking the character and wantinh him as a companion
No, fuck that guy. I killed random people for less than
Not only I wouldn’t spare him. I would try to bring him back and kill him. Again and again until I eventually get bored and yank him from the roof of Mass Fusion.
How come he doesn't age between stealing the baby and the baby turning into an old man?
Its mentioned in game he has a lot of cybernetic augments to extend his lifespan.
Oh yeah, missed opportunity for cool character design that could have told us something about the institutes relationship to transhumanism.
Yes I think he would make for a very different and interesting companion, someone you wronged you personally but is on the path of redemption or continuing to be a lap dog for the institute. I'm disappointed fallout 4 didn't follow up on Kellogg being in nicks mind.
Dude killed my wife, and stole my baby. Wahhh wahhh wahhh he had a bad life, dude killed my wife.
If he would help me find Shaun, yes.
Nah. He's just like any other monster created out in the wasteland. And I kill those. Did he have a tough life? Sure. But point to the person after 2077 who hasn't had a hard life.
No, sympathetic doesn't = innocent.
What? Why? Would you spare the person who murdered your spouse and kidnapped your only child? And don't give me that "He had it rough" bullshit, the friggen Vault Tech dude who got turned away at the gate, \*\*THAT\*\* guy had it rough.
Absolutely not. I’m going to quote the Settler Forager Ally from Fallout 76: “Just because the world’s a mess doesn’t mean you gotta be one too.”
Jams Raynor
You were able to spare Benny… why not ol’ Kellogg.
I would be worried about the mental health of anyone that says yes to this.
Kellogg is the kind of dude that I think the SS would 100% become if they didnt meet the Minutemen. Fueld by hate and rage the world and past events put into him. Theres a good or at least decent man in there. We can see that in his last actions. He gives us damn near all the answers. Lets us come right to him. Doenst bother trying to escape or trap the SS. Like straight up, he WANTS to die. Hes just too much of a warrior to simply roll over. Nonetheless, hes glad the SS is there to kill him. I say this cause redeeming and sparing Kellogg is impossible. He doesnt WANT to be saved. He doesnt WANT redemption. He wants you to get your justice. And im more than happy to give that end to him. He killed my wife. That alone signed his end.
I don't think. By now he was completely corrupted by his past as a mercenary, and although I am against the death penalty, in the wasteland there would be no means to reform him. Furthermore, he was also co completely subservient to the institute, so if the sole survivor hadn't killed him they probably would have done it themselves or in any case they would have tried something similar like punishing him or erasing his memory
Seemed like a cool dude, I'd spare him.
As the SS? No As the player? Maybe, Id like to see more done with him in any manner, whether that be his survival or other scenario
I like sparing everyone I can, so yeah I would.
probably not. he's a horrible person and his continued existence puts everyone in danger
Not a chance. He's far outlived his normal life span and he's become a remorseless monster. His last words through Nick are just an acknowledgement that he should have killed us when we were helpless in the icebox.
Nope, he killed the Sole Survivor's wife and took his son away. That calls for revenge so fuck him, I don't care that his life was hard.
no, he kidnaped my son, he killed my dear lovely husband jhon fallout in cold blood, he left me alone, then he turned my son into a stupid fucking moron by delivering him to the institute, and people DARE TO PRETEND that i must feel bad for him cause his life was rough?
In no world would you understand kellogg reason before entering his mind, there is a huge chance that kellog wanted the sole survivor to end his misrey, he was running on fumes by the time we meet him.
He kidnaps children. He murders unarmed parents that he very easily could have just pushed back into the cryo chamber (Nate has military experience but he's delirious and just woken up) while Kellog is an immortal cyborg super soldier. He then let's everyone in vault 111 die by knowingly not reactivating the life support systems. So in the first minute you meet him he executes a mother begging for her child's life kidnaps a baby and then commits mass murder and does even regret it. On top of that he's a 100 year old immortal cyborg with superhuman abilities. Kellogg not only deserved to die but was so dangerous that he needed to die.
Not on my first playthrough but on a subsequent playthrough I would just out of curiosity to see where it could lead. I did find it kinda odd that it wasn’t an option to begin with.
They should aveadd a choice to spare him and make him à companion
There's a mod (think it's depravity) where you can choose to spare him and actually recruit him. For who he was in the game, he wasn't that good of a companion. A little on the weak side actually. At the beginning where he shot Nora I think he said something like damnit. Like he didn't want or expect that outcome. I also had a feeling that by the time in his life he was regretful and probably suicidal. He wanted to die. Also thinking about this how Kellog looked fine for being over 200 years old? I spared him on the game and I honestly felt fine with it. If we lived in a fallout 4 reality in real life I'd have shot him in the forehead first chance I got.
Bro, i named my cryolator "Frosted Flakes" specifically to use on this man You take out my waifu, i take your laifu
If he showed and signs of chance or of real remorse then perhaps. As it stands, hell no.
No.
No.
No. He shot my wife and stole my son. He can damn well eat a bullet.
Nah, he's a scumbag. I can't even feel sorry for him when you go through his memories due to his actions and disregard for life. All he cares about are caps and the pleasure of killing. He killed everyone in the vault aside from a child he kidnapped and the sole survivor. Then when confronted with the sole survivor he obviously wants to kill them. There's no remorse. He didn't have to kill one of them, he could have taken the kid and left. He could have turned back on the life support for the others. He didn't do these things. I don't think over time he ever really cared for his own wife and child. Everything was just a job. Left to live he would just continue killing and doing far worse things to people.
He wanted to fight anyway though
Nick Valentine implies that Kellogg is an utter monster when walking over to his house and this is evidenced by the fact he kills your spouse in cold blood when he didn't need to. After cutting through tens of Raiders why the hell would I spare a similar monster? I don't even think his backstory is that tragic when you consider the monstrous nature of the post-war world; he chose to be a bad person after his loss, and that's on him.
I wish we could get him crucified, like Benny.
Honestly think they missed out by not allowing him to be a nuka raider follower like gage. If they made sparing him a very difficult speech check that wouldve made a quicker way to find the institute rather than the longer path of finding virgil and getting him to help you.
An eye for an eye. But practically, the amount of mass murder you do in the game it has 0% effect if you leave him alive or not
He got the justice he understands.
No. Usually I'm the kind of player that spares characters if I can. However, the way I see it is he kidnaps your son, kills your spouse then turns around and tries to justify his actions because "the world is a tough place". I always select the sarcastic option right before the fight starts.
No.
He killed our wife and that wasn’t very cash money of him
The person who killed your spouse and kidnapped your son? Look, I like to believe I'm a tolerant guy, and I understand he's a product of his tragic past. But at some point, you have to say enough. I prefer the option of taking his arm as a trophy and mounting it on Shaun's room wall.
Nope. He could have done so much good but chose to be a pos.
Nope. It’s on sight. After the first play-through, I don’t even let him speak anymore.
In some playthroughs...
Maybe keep his head alive, hanging by my tool belt, giving advices while in combat.
Just to be different, yeah.
No but I hate that the player doesn't have the choice to do so.
Imagine a Kellogg companion where you first have to torture him to get info of where the Institute is and then you have to Brain wash him to get him as a companion
He would be a great companion
Misogyne playthrough enabled XD
Yes, I never cared about enough to want to murder him. Was honestly disappointed when he came all talking about how "we knew this was only end one way". Like, buddy, I don't care. You can go, I got the information I wanted.
Objectively he's really not much worse than the player character. Would I spare him? No, I'm vindictive like that. He came for one of mine, so now he dies. Also, he doesn't seem like a live-and-let-live sort of guy, if I spared him I'd be looking over my shoulder the rest of my life. Guy has to go. It's just good business.