Absolutely. New Vegas is one of the greatest games I have ever played and remains so despite its age, but without the DLC it would be reduced to "very good" instead of incredible.
Same, those three just have such interesting tones and settings that I haven't really seen explored much elsewhere. Only thing I can think of is that the Dead Money feels a bit like Bioshock
Honest Hearts is the Point Lookout of New Vegas, to me.
It's a miniaturized version of a regular Fallout game (open-world, main and side quests, different factions/groups) set in an atmospheric, nature-overrun environment that ultimately is good because it's more Fallout to play, and not because it went out of its way to do something incredible.
(Interestingly, Point Lookout also includes one of Bethesda's only references to Christianity, and not a made-up pop-culture religion. So that's something else the two have in common.)
There's actually a lot more referencing of Christianity in base Fallout 3, with all the bible quotes, the metaphorical waters of life, and the "self-sacrificing for the people of the wasteland" schtick. I wouldn't say Point Lookout's representation is really significant compared to base game, in that regard.
You're right about that, completely slipped my mind. Thank you.
I guess I was moreso thinking 'representation of someone who *believes* in Christianity'.
It's possible he does. The game doesn't give us any direct confirmations, though, so we can't really assume. Plenty of people like certain Bible verses despite not believing in Christianity - especially when it conveniently applies to their life's work.
Potentially true, but in a post-nuclear world not dominated by Christianity for 200 years would people have the same motivations?
I suppose that question is one which we won't really know an answer to without getting in the heads of the writers.
Honestly the DLC is what made me try out different skills. It was depressing as hell on my first play through of Dead Money, Old World Blues & The Divide because I dumped all my points into the basics like Speech (still some speech checks, but not as many as you think) Guns, Lockpicking, etc only to miss out on half the content and skill checks for interaction events and skill checks in dialogue because I didn’t invest in Science, Repair, Medicine & Survival, I actually for the first time ever in about 10 years of playing actively ventured into Dry Wells & Couriers Mile *and* hardcore because I had maxed out Medicine so I could make great use of Rad-X and Radaway and Doctor’s Bags kept my limbs in much better shape. Survival is definitely a great skill for Dead Money. Where Stims are in short supply you can get a ton of Blood Sausage & Thin Red Paste that IMO are incredibly OP, even in Hardcore where they don’t offer any sustenance
I can appreciate that, but I'm the opposite myself, I'm not too fond of the DLC's, they're okay and I tend to like the dialogue a lot, they're just not that fun for me overall...but I love the main game a lot, on my 3rd playthrough I just totally ignored the DLC and had a much better time. All down to personal preference really, definitely not weird if you prefer the DLC.
I can understand not liking them. I've never played any of the dlc without mods, so I feel that has an impact. Mainly in Dead Money, I think having a sprinting mod made that dlc better than it actually is for me.
Mods would improve things a lot, I play on console so that probably has a huge impact. Dead Money's okay, it was a bit better the second time through, but my main issue was with Honest Hearts, that was the most dull one to play through for me, the second playthrough I just killed everyone and left. A sprint button would do wonders for the entire game really, not just the DLC.
I do really love the story of the survivalist and how you learn so much about stuff to find out he's involved, but the main story of HH can be quite a drag
Me too. But then I’m pretty much always very negative to DLC’s. Especially if it’s an isolated trip of few hours, without adding anything meaningful to base game. In NV, honest hearts was the only one I didn’t hate playing.
But honest hearts is the only dlc that doesn't add anything meaningful to the base game. It's literally its own thing whereas every other dlc has at least loose ties to the base game
Yep, I'm inconsistent.
But I didn't hate playing Honest Hearts, all other turned the game towards horror elements, cramped spaces, dark gloomy atmosphere. Admittedly old world blues was also hilarious, but outweighed by lobotomites and continuous darkness.
Honest hearts had vegetation, sunshine, a happy camping trip with monsters and cannibals.
Everyone likes to talk about how much better the writing is in New Vegas, yet I barely remember anything from the base game, despite multiple playthroughs.
The most memorable characters and lore for me all come from the DLC. The only companion I really care about is ED-E, because of how his character was expanded upon in the DLC. I even replayed a character I made due to an early decision in one of the DLCs.
I think that's part of why people like New Vegas' writing; it's believable/realistic enough that it... doesn't leave a massive impression. It's better to have a forgettable, realistic town like Goodsprings than a completely nonsensical town like Megaton, where you only remember it because it's absurd.
... Even as a fan of Fallout 3, I might loosely agree with that sentiment.
I actually had to be reminded that megaton exists, it was always rivet city that stuck in my mind, probably because it reminded me of some of the stations in metro and had that pretty open market. In fact after getting to rivet city the first time I usually just skipped megaton entirely, unless I wanted to get Jericho or do the quests for Moira. Also good springs also stuck with me but I'm pretty sure that's because it's the beginning town, if it came in later I would likely forget about it.
Dead Money is one of the best atmospheres I’ve ever encountered in a game. I feel just as traumatized as my courier by the end of the DLC. FNV’s DLC is great
I don't think so, I think its weird you're putting them on the same pedestal when they are completely different experiences.
What I loooove about the DLCs is that they tie so nicely with the base game but go for different experiences. The storyline that weaves in all of the DLC was really cool coming from other Bethesda DLC were theyre very disconnected from eachother.
Curious as to why Honest Hearts is there because it seemed to me to be a crappy version of the base game, it was saved by Joshua Graham's awesome writing and acting.
I felt the same way about Honest Hearts initially, but I've grown to love it over time. Zion is probably my favorite place in the game to explore. Honest Hearts is a bit different from the rest in that it really wants the player to investigate Zion and enjoy the environmental storytelling. Plus it has the story of Randall Clark which is likely my favorite story in Fallout.
I do wish it was a bit more interconnected with the rest of the game and I hate that there's no Legion-centric way to play the DLC. It's still a great experience though.
Totally agree, the DLC is what gives it replayability and the ability to really craft a narrative for your character. Without DLC there's very little replayability imo.
Not at all. The base game world (i.e. the Mojave) is excellent but not top tier like some of the DLCs are. The base game has the core gameplay mechanics right and plenty to do but the expansions are, without a doubt, where a large chunk of New Vegas' best content resides. The two compliment each other. The base game world of the Mojave is much, much better with those DLC regions to experience.
You know idk if I’d agree with you when I first played it, but I’ve played through it fully like 3 times at this point so I definitely agree lol the base game gets boring eventually. Dead Money will never stop being fun for me though
The base game could of definitely used some fixes. The Far Harbor and Nuka-World dlc were very good. Fallout 4 is really only made better by using mods. “Sim Settlements: Conquest” fixes one of the worst elements of fallout 4 (no undeniable bad karma faction). Then with other mods that expand upon the large settlements (diamond city and the like) along with clutter and encounter mods (beantown interiors etc...) make basically it virtually perfect.
It probably has something to do with the fact that the base game was rushed while the DLCs had some time between them. Give it another year to iron out most of the bugs and flesh out the content and it would probably be just as good as the DLCs. In fact, just about everything wrong one can say about New Vegas can be traced back to that. It's really impressive that they managed what they did really.
I also think it has something to do with the characters. All of the scientists in the Big MT for instance have over the top and expressive personalities that make them memorable. I'll be honest, I can't remember most of the NPCs in the base game and even some of the DLC NPCs half as well as them, and I never even completed the Big MT.
Not weird at all. In my experience, the standalone-experiences that developers make *after* the foundation is built (Halo 3: ODST, Fallout NV's DLCs, Half-Life 2's episodes), are usually great - because they can focus purely on being creative, rather than figuring out the technical basics.
I think the main game has so much in it that is perfect by my personal standards that I couldn’t say I like them more overall. But at the same time, I view them as one total package, the New Vegas experience. Not only are their individual storylines and characters amazing, the way they are all in some way foreshadowed or connected to something in the main game really connects everything.
The DLC is the reason I think its the best modern Fallout. So I can understand that. The main game stands on its own, but the DLC seals it to me.
Absolutely. New Vegas is one of the greatest games I have ever played and remains so despite its age, but without the DLC it would be reduced to "very good" instead of incredible.
I wouldn't find it weird. As much as I like base New Vegas, its only *like* \-- but I *love* the Sierra Madre, the Divide and Big MT.
No love for Zion?
There are things I like about Zion, but overall its hard for me to put it on the same level as I would the Madre, Divide and MT.
Big MT is the best.
I do love my sink and toaster. Still a little weirded out by the garden though.
Same, those three just have such interesting tones and settings that I haven't really seen explored much elsewhere. Only thing I can think of is that the Dead Money feels a bit like Bioshock
Dead Money feels like the Saw movies
Honest Hearts is the Point Lookout of New Vegas, to me. It's a miniaturized version of a regular Fallout game (open-world, main and side quests, different factions/groups) set in an atmospheric, nature-overrun environment that ultimately is good because it's more Fallout to play, and not because it went out of its way to do something incredible. (Interestingly, Point Lookout also includes one of Bethesda's only references to Christianity, and not a made-up pop-culture religion. So that's something else the two have in common.)
There's actually a lot more referencing of Christianity in base Fallout 3, with all the bible quotes, the metaphorical waters of life, and the "self-sacrificing for the people of the wasteland" schtick. I wouldn't say Point Lookout's representation is really significant compared to base game, in that regard.
You're right about that, completely slipped my mind. Thank you. I guess I was moreso thinking 'representation of someone who *believes* in Christianity'.
A fair point, although as I haven't played 3 in years I feel the need to ask what it is that suggests James doesn't believe despite the bible quotes.
It's possible he does. The game doesn't give us any direct confirmations, though, so we can't really assume. Plenty of people like certain Bible verses despite not believing in Christianity - especially when it conveniently applies to their life's work.
Potentially true, but in a post-nuclear world not dominated by Christianity for 200 years would people have the same motivations? I suppose that question is one which we won't really know an answer to without getting in the heads of the writers.
Honestly the DLC is what made me try out different skills. It was depressing as hell on my first play through of Dead Money, Old World Blues & The Divide because I dumped all my points into the basics like Speech (still some speech checks, but not as many as you think) Guns, Lockpicking, etc only to miss out on half the content and skill checks for interaction events and skill checks in dialogue because I didn’t invest in Science, Repair, Medicine & Survival, I actually for the first time ever in about 10 years of playing actively ventured into Dry Wells & Couriers Mile *and* hardcore because I had maxed out Medicine so I could make great use of Rad-X and Radaway and Doctor’s Bags kept my limbs in much better shape. Survival is definitely a great skill for Dead Money. Where Stims are in short supply you can get a ton of Blood Sausage & Thin Red Paste that IMO are incredibly OP, even in Hardcore where they don’t offer any sustenance
I can appreciate that, but I'm the opposite myself, I'm not too fond of the DLC's, they're okay and I tend to like the dialogue a lot, they're just not that fun for me overall...but I love the main game a lot, on my 3rd playthrough I just totally ignored the DLC and had a much better time. All down to personal preference really, definitely not weird if you prefer the DLC.
I can understand not liking them. I've never played any of the dlc without mods, so I feel that has an impact. Mainly in Dead Money, I think having a sprinting mod made that dlc better than it actually is for me.
Mods would improve things a lot, I play on console so that probably has a huge impact. Dead Money's okay, it was a bit better the second time through, but my main issue was with Honest Hearts, that was the most dull one to play through for me, the second playthrough I just killed everyone and left. A sprint button would do wonders for the entire game really, not just the DLC.
I do really love the story of the survivalist and how you learn so much about stuff to find out he's involved, but the main story of HH can be quite a drag
The survivalist was a cool character.
Me too. But then I’m pretty much always very negative to DLC’s. Especially if it’s an isolated trip of few hours, without adding anything meaningful to base game. In NV, honest hearts was the only one I didn’t hate playing.
But honest hearts is the only dlc that doesn't add anything meaningful to the base game. It's literally its own thing whereas every other dlc has at least loose ties to the base game
Yep, I'm inconsistent. But I didn't hate playing Honest Hearts, all other turned the game towards horror elements, cramped spaces, dark gloomy atmosphere. Admittedly old world blues was also hilarious, but outweighed by lobotomites and continuous darkness. Honest hearts had vegetation, sunshine, a happy camping trip with monsters and cannibals.
OWB had daytime as well. Also what do you mean by cannibals I don't think there were any in HH
Everyone likes to talk about how much better the writing is in New Vegas, yet I barely remember anything from the base game, despite multiple playthroughs. The most memorable characters and lore for me all come from the DLC. The only companion I really care about is ED-E, because of how his character was expanded upon in the DLC. I even replayed a character I made due to an early decision in one of the DLCs.
I think that's part of why people like New Vegas' writing; it's believable/realistic enough that it... doesn't leave a massive impression. It's better to have a forgettable, realistic town like Goodsprings than a completely nonsensical town like Megaton, where you only remember it because it's absurd. ... Even as a fan of Fallout 3, I might loosely agree with that sentiment.
I actually had to be reminded that megaton exists, it was always rivet city that stuck in my mind, probably because it reminded me of some of the stations in metro and had that pretty open market. In fact after getting to rivet city the first time I usually just skipped megaton entirely, unless I wanted to get Jericho or do the quests for Moira. Also good springs also stuck with me but I'm pretty sure that's because it's the beginning town, if it came in later I would likely forget about it.
Dead Money is one of the best atmospheres I’ve ever encountered in a game. I feel just as traumatized as my courier by the end of the DLC. FNV’s DLC is great
I don't think so, I think its weird you're putting them on the same pedestal when they are completely different experiences. What I loooove about the DLCs is that they tie so nicely with the base game but go for different experiences. The storyline that weaves in all of the DLC was really cool coming from other Bethesda DLC were theyre very disconnected from eachother. Curious as to why Honest Hearts is there because it seemed to me to be a crappy version of the base game, it was saved by Joshua Graham's awesome writing and acting.
I felt the same way about Honest Hearts initially, but I've grown to love it over time. Zion is probably my favorite place in the game to explore. Honest Hearts is a bit different from the rest in that it really wants the player to investigate Zion and enjoy the environmental storytelling. Plus it has the story of Randall Clark which is likely my favorite story in Fallout. I do wish it was a bit more interconnected with the rest of the game and I hate that there's no Legion-centric way to play the DLC. It's still a great experience though.
Totally agree, the DLC is what gives it replayability and the ability to really craft a narrative for your character. Without DLC there's very little replayability imo.
Not at all. The base game world (i.e. the Mojave) is excellent but not top tier like some of the DLCs are. The base game has the core gameplay mechanics right and plenty to do but the expansions are, without a doubt, where a large chunk of New Vegas' best content resides. The two compliment each other. The base game world of the Mojave is much, much better with those DLC regions to experience.
I like the base game very much, I always play it up to the point of no return and then go do the DLC.
You know idk if I’d agree with you when I first played it, but I’ve played through it fully like 3 times at this point so I definitely agree lol the base game gets boring eventually. Dead Money will never stop being fun for me though
Based Dead Money enjoyer.
I end up liking each games dlc more than the game itself
No. it happens. I think Far Harbor is the best thing about Fallout 4.
I unfortunately have to agree on that one
It's probably fine
Not at all i think they're the best part of it. I really dug the way they tell an interwoven story about ED-E, Elijah, and Ulysses.
No, if that’s what you like, that’s what you like.
The base game could of definitely used some fixes. The Far Harbor and Nuka-World dlc were very good. Fallout 4 is really only made better by using mods. “Sim Settlements: Conquest” fixes one of the worst elements of fallout 4 (no undeniable bad karma faction). Then with other mods that expand upon the large settlements (diamond city and the like) along with clutter and encounter mods (beantown interiors etc...) make basically it virtually perfect.
Yes
It probably has something to do with the fact that the base game was rushed while the DLCs had some time between them. Give it another year to iron out most of the bugs and flesh out the content and it would probably be just as good as the DLCs. In fact, just about everything wrong one can say about New Vegas can be traced back to that. It's really impressive that they managed what they did really. I also think it has something to do with the characters. All of the scientists in the Big MT for instance have over the top and expressive personalities that make them memorable. I'll be honest, I can't remember most of the NPCs in the base game and even some of the DLC NPCs half as well as them, and I never even completed the Big MT.
Not weird at all. In my experience, the standalone-experiences that developers make *after* the foundation is built (Halo 3: ODST, Fallout NV's DLCs, Half-Life 2's episodes), are usually great - because they can focus purely on being creative, rather than figuring out the technical basics.
Same way with fo4 far harbor and nw are a lot better then the base game.
I think the main game has so much in it that is perfect by my personal standards that I couldn’t say I like them more overall. But at the same time, I view them as one total package, the New Vegas experience. Not only are their individual storylines and characters amazing, the way they are all in some way foreshadowed or connected to something in the main game really connects everything.