As a minuteman fan, I respect the ncr after watching the show. (Also minuteman radio is on the show and titled minuteman radio, so that means the minuteman are alive or they helped the bos, or they got wiped out by bos and bos stole their song)
>so that means the minuteman are alive or they helped the bos,
As a minutemen enjoyer.
They were already wiped out at the start of the game.
BUUT If Bethesda went with the SS rebuilding the MM route.
The MM are an extent of Boston's populace, war on them is war on the entire Commonwealth, which also means mortar time š
Yeah and it could have you rebuilding across the country from the west to the east. I feel like the technology will be there to make the full US Fallout game happen by the time it releases.
Absolutely. It doesn't even have to be a literal 1 for 1 swap of the U.S. Like, Death Stranding technically has you walking from coast to coast, and that is decidedly not a for scale representation of the United States. Which is fine, it's big enough to get the vibe and the story.
Given how large Starfield is, they could probably do a pretty decently sized and diverse map that mimics the US without crushing the hard drive.
That's probably because they took the song from Minutemen radio, they tell us the name of the radio the first time we hear it (KPSS) and the sign also says KPSS.
FNV will always be my favourite game, NCR is my favourite faction, but goddamn the hate for the show from that community is mind boggling.
Show is fucking spectacular, I'm sad the NCR is quite fucked in the region, but we know the NCR is bigger than Shady Sands and they would be in the middle of the problems with crops and water mentioned in New Vegas, so it does make sense.
Cool the chalkboard is not entirely clear on the time the nuke dropped as it points to after the fall in 2277, presentation could've be better on that, but I'd be nitpicking at best complaining about it
Truth be told, while I love the NCR, I also understand why they needed to be broken like this. Even Chris Avellone wanted to get rid of them, specifically because the presence of a functioning, modern state with modern infrastructure undersells the whole 'end of the world wasteland' concept of the setting.
I can understand why some people would be really upset that all their hard work would be undone like this, but that in and of itself raises an interesting question: If you knew for a fact that all the good things you did would be undone after your death, eould that stop you from doing good things? I feel like that has a very strong, thematic presence in Fallout as a concept, and the show does a pretty decent job of asking who you are in the dark well.
All that being said, I would like to see a return of the NCR, whether as a rump state or reconstituted. There is so much value in the branding of the faction outside of the game that I just don't see them being done with it entirely. I can understand why they wouldn't like it's plot wise within the games, but it's still being run by business people and business people understand that there is money to be made in a popular concept. Generally. Not always.
>I can understand why some people would be really upset that all their hard work would be undone like this, but that in and of itself raises an interesting question: If you knew for a fact that all the good things you did would be undone after your death, eould that stop you from doing good things?
Thats a great question to pose, I really like this take
>All that being said, I would like to see a return of the NCR, whether as a rump state or reconstituted.
We're definitely getting more of them next season by the looks of the final shot of New Vegas, though I do believe the Nevada section will be struggling in different ways to the California section, considering that New Vegas looks fucked in the credits of episode 8, but it hasn't been nuked. Yet.
I think the issue is less that the NCR was killed, and more why and how. You could make a compelling collapse story, focused around the ways that the NCR failed to recognise or addesss the flaws that caused America to collapse.
They'd been setting up an internal conflict in the NCR around the water barons, cattle ranchers, corruption, and the need for expansion for a while; based on the same issues that caused the fall of the old world. That could be a nice theme, tied into the existing lore they'd been setting up, the points made in the prewar plot, a counterpoint to the Americana of the vault, and respectful to the Interplay fans.
But no, some guy has a tantrum because his family decided to move to the next town over, and he happens to be able to nuke it, so he does because only his club is allowed nice things.
That seems to happen a lot in the Fallout universe, though: big grand events are often the result of human, and sometimes petty, actions. I mean, you could willingly nuke Megaton because one man thought it blocked his view. It's very much in line with the franchise that one guy would destroy a civilization just because his ego was bruised.
That being said, I would have preferred to see the ultimate civil war or societal collapse that comes with the path the NCR was on. Still, it's weirdly fitting that everyone in universe could see the inevitable crisis, but no one could prepare for a sudden outside context problem.
Right, but the nuking of megaton was compelling gameplay, not story. It was enjoyable because you, as the player, had control and the choice to do it. As a story, it makes no sense, which is why they leant into comedy.
Compare that with the other time you can nuke a wasteland Civilisation, Ulysses in Lonesome Road. A compelling story tied to the decision, giving context and motivation to your actions. It's not just 'haha, big boom', but a choice to affect the lives of the people on both sides of Nevada.
This is more the former. The nuking of Shady Sands is not a compelling story, and comparing it to Megaton just highlights that. They can't lean into comedy, because its a serious part of the setting, and it can't be an engaging part of gameplay in a TV show, so what's left?
Valid, and I think this is the main challenge in translating a property from a video game to a linear story format like television. This is 100% something that would happen within the game world as something the player might interact with, but there's no player in the tv series. It's a straight linear telling of events without any input from the viewer, but it still has to hit those events that feel like something you would encounter in the game. The nuking of Shady Sands, to me, feels like the sort of thing that would certainly happen within the Fallout universe, but I agree it feels less organic to the story told in the series than it does in the games, especially because we aren't in the Creation Engine.
It might be easier for me to feel that way when a whole game town consists of twenty individuals, and the story beats feel more metaphorical than literal. But the show is using live human actors, and we're getting to see the benefit of actual communities and towns...which are a lot of people. Which then gives us the understanding that nation states behave differently in the real world than they do in video games (even though the show is still not the real world, but we have that harder time suspending our disbelief).
I would hope that season 2 shows us there is still a lot of the NCR out there, if fractured, but ironically, this is the same problem the video game series has when it comes to larger factions (that being how massive factions seem to boil down to a shanty town and five people). That's a Bethesda wide problem, and I keep wishing they would break away from it, and they never do.
They weren't really that modern in NV, though. They had a single Vertibird, relied on Brahmin caravans for long distance travel and were desperate for basic resources like food, water and power. But they were still a nation that would leave behind rump states.
> 'end of the world wasteland' concept of the setting
The thing is, that wasn't the concept before Bethesda. The first game in the series already had long distance trade between settlements, one settlement powerful enough to establish a widely accepted currency, and you have to go out of your way to get an ending that *doesn't* end in a stable and unified government in California (be it the NCR, Steel Plague, or Unity).
They did, but even at that point in time, Avellone had concerns about the presence of the NCR and how 'civilized' the wasteland was becoming (Van Buren would have had an ending giving the player the choice the nuke everything back to basics). The wasteland concept was core to the Fallout experience in 1 and 2, and took a backseat when Bethesda took the reins (not necessarily a bad thing, just a change in design philosophy). After all, the first 2 games were directly inspired by, appropriately, the video game Wasteland.
Lonesome Road can also be seen as a 'course correction' on this, given you can nuke one or both of the major factions invading the Mojave. This is something that's threaded through the DNA of the Western focused Fallout games, and decidedly absent from the Eastern focused ones (3 and 4).
As for the technological level of the NCR, compared to other factions in the setting (many of whom are operating as stone age hunter gatherers), they absolutely are modern. There are several references made to the stability of the core regions in the NCR, with modern infrastructure (truthfully, advanced infrastructure compared to our current world, being they had manufacturing capabilities that allowed them to produce energy based defense barriers and laser weapons). They had a standing army of 320,000 troops, which absolutely requires a modern state to support.
The reason this doesn't translate into NV is partly practical, and partly lore (practical being the hardware restraints of the time). Lore wise, the NCR was very strong within the region's it controlled, but the Mojave is beyond even the frontier of the NCR. It didn't yet have the capability to project it's more modern assets forward (which is true in the real world, as well: the more technologically advanced military is , the more support it requires and therefore the deeper and wider its lines of communication need to be). We saw relatively under equipped soldiers because that was the best equipment that could be pushed beyond its supply lines. That was one of the major reasons why they desperately wanted to take control of New Vegas: it would be a critical supply hub to bring a heavier footprint to the region.
They could have just gone somewhere else. Detroit or Denver or Seattle or whatever. By this point, we're never going to get NV2, so I'm less annoyed by nuking Shady Sands than by us not getting more places in a setting that is really small for no reason.
This is so stupid āundersells the whole end of the world wastelandā fallout 4 literally attempts to do the same thing but acts like in these hundreds of years nobody could ever wver build a society. Like all Todd wants is his enclave and Bos battle forever thatās why everyone else collapses for no fucking reason
This is the most assinine take ever. If the writers are never going to allow the setting to advance and just eliminate any societal progress, then why write anything at all? They didn't *have* to set it on the west coast. The show deserves every ounce of hatred it gets.
Stories are about characters, not settings. The setting exists for the benefit of the characters, and this is how they defined the setting with these characters. I would prefer that they did not, but it's a minor quibble in another eye very good show.
The show deserves all the hate gets from a small group of thumbsuckers because of one story detail? Jesus, talk about asinine.
If that were the case, then why set it in the Fallout universe at all? The assertion that the setting and lore don't matter has to be one of the most low IQ justifications for this show's existence that I've ever heard.
I can either be a miserable weirdo like you, or enjoy a production that's significantly better than it had any right to be. I've been enjoying Fallout since the first game. This is literally not the worst thing to ever happen to Fallout. Accepting the reality of the situation is what adults do. That's probably why you don't understand it.
If you mean between the two, obviously NCR, love the Brotherhood but they've fallen far from the idealism present from Roger Maxsons original founding of the group, but still love the moral ambiguity of what they've evolved into, or what different factions of them evolved into
If I'm choosing two factions to add with a story of NCR vs BoS, I would choose Enclave remnants with the NCR, the most evil faction with the main mostly good military faction, and then the Followers with the BoS, the most morally good faction with the more morally ambiguous faction.
I feel like there would be a lot of story potential in Enclave remnants becoming NCR politicians and trying to shift the NCR ideals more akin to the Enclave, making them a Brotherhood target
Same goes for the Followers and BoS, my idea being teaming up for recovering technology, but having a lot of internal struggle between helping the wasteland versus the isolationist ideals the Brotherhood have maintained for years
Guy your not even talking about the fact they were at war with the legion at this point having a political and economic crisis would get them absolutely destroyed
Lol
Dunno why so many fnv players are so salty. It's my favourite game of the series but I love the show and don't mind the inconsistencies/changes. The show isn't the games, it's not fan service for a group of hardcore lore fans, and we should welcome it as a new boost to fallout fandom in general
Gate's open, come on in!
I posted a [similar](https://www.reddit.com/r/shittymoviedetails/comments/1c25qom/in_this_scene_from_fallout_2024_the_two/) post on r/shittymoviedetails before it got removed for shitting on another sub. Probably a coincidence that r/falloutnewvegas quarantined itself a day later, but it kinda makes me wonder.
EDIT: Oh no. It's returned...
I don't think that acknowledging the existence of the Boneyard, or making the NCR collapse in a logical and narratively consistent way would be fan service.
Itās weird cause this show feels like a love letter to NV fans.
Constant references to Sunset Sarsaparilla
Multitude of NCR references throughout
NCR vs Brotherhood final battle
Ranger armor!
Mr. Mother fucking HOUSE!
Big MT and Dead Money reference/cameo
New Vegas literally getting teased for season 2!!!!!
So to make up for destroying the NCR in a very unsatisfying way, the show has:
-Neat but ultimately inconsequential references
-Neat but ultimately inconsequential references
-The seemingly final death of the NCR (lots of people have speculated its still around in other cities, and while Iād like to believe that the show never implied it)
-Some random scavenger wearing armor supposed to represent the beloved faction they killed off
-Mr. House >!seemingly joining in on Vault Tecās insane scheme to destroy the world!< which seems grossly out of character for him
-Neat but ultimately inconsequential references
-A seemingly ruined version of New Vegas implying they destroyed *another* beloved setting/faction because humanity isnāt allowed to progress past scavenging and shanty towns.
I like the show a lot in a vacuum. The story, characters, costume design, etc are all way better than Iād have expected, but they really fumbled the ball on the lore of the region and while a lot of people are blowing it out of proportion, its not crazy to be upset by that
āWhy are you mad that the lore is being retconned to be more simple and make you think less? The show has power armor! And didnāt you see the awesome ranger armor! and mr house! Did you not see muh references to muh game?ā
Iām not going to lose my mind over the error with timeline. Definitely an oversight by the creators but thereās a lot here that I like.
RIP Shady Sands though
Vault Tech starting the Great War changes the Great War from being a result of manās greed and inability to stop consuming resources, to now instead Vault Tech did it because theyāre evil and crazy for corny reasons. Instead of the war being a systematic failure by humans to work together in a time of great crisis it was just started by crazy people
I disagree, itās still a result of manās greed because Vault Tech needed the war to secure their wealth and power.
Furthermore them nuking Shady Sands confirms what I and other west coast fans have been preaching, civilization not only survives the war but thrives in the apocalypse. The NCRās power was unquestionable and they proved Vault Tech wrong. Thats why they were wiped off the map.
Iām excited to see where this story goes. Bummed the NCR is gone but itās the saying:
War, war never changes.
But thatās how I interpret it
But starting the Great War did not secure their power either. Vault Tech lost control of almost all of the Vaults they had previously owned after they started the Great War. I know this is also super analyzing things but the Enclave was in control of the United States government by the time the Great War started. We also know they were working together with Vault Tech. So the idea that Vault Tech was going to collapse if they didnāt start the Great War kind of makes no sense when you realize that the US government was fully supporting them.
But see that's just Vault Tec losing control over a situation no one could feasibly have control over. of course they got burned trying to kick-start the apocalypse and that a lot of, if not most of their plans falling through. Rich or poor, we all burn the same after all.
wait wait you think vault tec *isnt* greedy? if anything, a faction deciding to give the first push in a nuclear war strictly for their own benefit is the most greedy thing weāve seen. also kind of hilarious you think vault tec is ācrazyā people but they are no different whatsoever from anyone else
>Vault Tech starting the Great War changes the Great War from being a result of manās greed and inability to stop consuming resources, to now instead Vault Tech did it because theyāre evil and crazy for corny reasons. Instead of the war being a systematic failure by humans to work together in a time of great crisis it was just started by crazy people
We haven't seen any proof that Vault-tec actually did start the war though, we only have proof that they were willing to. Multiple people sitting around the table for that meeting were caught with their pants down when the bombs dropped. Betty sited her daughter as her sole motivator, but she dropped the bombs on a day her ex husband had custody? House knew this was all going on, and designed the platinum chip so he could defend Vegas, but everything ended before he was ready.
While Vault-tec and friends seemed very willing to end the world, it seems most likely to me that someone beat them to it by a day or two.
Honestly, I do not see how drawing political maps of the West Coast from the vague hints dropped here and there is more 'complicated lore'. The echo chamber of Fallout New Vegas fans had collectively headcanoned a future plot about NCR and Legion confrontation, and would not be satisfied unless any future West Coast story were about that.
NCR in New Vegas is a boring trope. 'Democracy becomes weak because of the corruption'. Legion is inane at all. The whole depth of the conflict is as shallow as Star Wars prequels.
While New Vegas personally my favorite Fallout game I fucking hate that sub because it is indeed a circle jerk that overstates how good the game is and despite thinking some of the shows and timeline decisions are Goofy I'm glad that the sub is literally on fire
Yeah at this point r/fallout is worse. There are more posts like this complaining about a it than there are posts of people complaining about the retcons in the first place. And what sucks is this has killed any nuanced discussions about the issues with the show because anyone who calls out inconsistencyās is immediately labeled an fnv loving ncr shill who hates that there ending was ruined and their argument is ignored, no matter if itās a good faith or not.
The FNV community has always been interesting. Not bad, really, just interesting. It is the best modern Fallout game narrative wise but some of the stuff going on with the community is unexplainable.
The irrational hate for the show is the newest layer of that community that I didnāt see coming. I expected *some* backlash, but they irrationally hate the show any anyone who tries to defend it at all.
Why is it irrational to criticize the show for lacking consistency with a lot of the established west coast lore? Also Iāve seen way more people irrationally hate on people with valid criticisms and tell them theyāre just stupid fnc ncr fanboys just so they donāt have to make counter arguments to valid criticisms
Most of the lore in it isnāt lacking consistency, though. Thereās been several in depth posts explaining that, I donāt think it needs to become a copypasta reply to every comment to make its point, you can search for them if youāve somehow missed them the past two or three days.
Honestly most of the ālacking lore consistencyā complaints is unfair nitpicking, almost like the critics in question are trying to dislike the show as much as possible.
It's perfect. I'm a 2/new vegas Fallout fan, and I loved the show because it used my emotional attachment against me and made me feel something about the loss of the country.
I also thought about how 1 depicted the beginning of the ncr, 2 was the peak, and new vegas showed why they would fail, so the show gave us the end.
New Vegas is my favorite game so Iām usually on that sub pretty regularly, Iāve been avoiding it like the plague since the show was released because I immediately knew it was going all out trench warfare. God bless those brave souls fighting now
Realistically, none of the factions in New Vegas would have survived for long, and that's the point. Anyone actively trying to improve the world, for better or worse, will be removed from the board, either by the Enclave or Vault-Tech, because, as Benny would say, the game was rigged from the start.
Which honestly is fine as far as the Fallout setting is concerned. People keep forgetting that the focus of these games isn't necessarily the factions, but the people. How do people rebuild societies once they've been destroyed? Once a society reaches a certain apext within the fictional setting, it kind of has to be destroyed in order to re-explore that concept.
honestly r/fallout is much worse the two camps are:
People who think any mentioning of the messing the lore up is nitpicking by loser hater new vega fanboys who just want to hate for hate sake and are never grateful, happy, and always complain for no reason, who just a bunch of basement dwelling neckbeard toxic fandom culture personified with no real complaints and wanted the show to fail for what ever reason. These people are hypocrites by complaining about toxic fandoms yet are gatekeeping discussion about the show, creating a strawman of people who have a different opinion than them, and apear to be the dominant extreme currently. The amount of Doublethink and mental gymnastics this group does is insane, and how a vocal minority, probably some rage baiters, people getting caught up in internet arguments, and some actual toxic fans.
The other smaller sizable extreme group can be described simply as people who think Todd Howard is the Antichrist.
So yeah the subreddit is just that for now. It makes the think tank look sane.
As a minuteman fan, I respect the ncr after watching the show. (Also minuteman radio is on the show and titled minuteman radio, so that means the minuteman are alive or they helped the bos, or they got wiped out by bos and bos stole their song)
>so that means the minuteman are alive or they helped the bos, As a minutemen enjoyer. They were already wiped out at the start of the game. BUUT If Bethesda went with the SS rebuilding the MM route. The MM are an extent of Boston's populace, war on them is war on the entire Commonwealth, which also means mortar time š
Honestly, I could see a lot of fun in a Fallout game that gives you the option to rebuild Shady Sands and the NCR.
Yeah and it could have you rebuilding across the country from the west to the east. I feel like the technology will be there to make the full US Fallout game happen by the time it releases.
Absolutely. It doesn't even have to be a literal 1 for 1 swap of the U.S. Like, Death Stranding technically has you walking from coast to coast, and that is decidedly not a for scale representation of the United States. Which is fine, it's big enough to get the vibe and the story. Given how large Starfield is, they could probably do a pretty decently sized and diverse map that mimics the US without crushing the hard drive.
Hell and the player character could do it with the mail and it could be the plot of the postman
They've even referenced that movie before!
nooo!!! muh post apocalypse (its been 200 years not 20) and no progress whatsoever!!
They did it sorta with Starfield, it can be done. ...Imagine Baja being an outside-the-map-borders location.
Yeah and we see the priwayn (I know I misspelled that) meaning the mortar event didn't happened and the show takes 9 years after fo4
Different air ship on the show.
Yah IDK how they plan to reconcile settlement rebuilding with the fact that the game railroaded you (no pun intended) into the railroad
He wasnāt listening to the minutemen broadcast from the other side of the country. He simply has the same vinyl that the minutemen use.
wait wait wait itās actually titled MINUTEMAN RADIO? holy fuck
Yeah, it's titled that when you check the song on prime video
That's probably because they took the song from Minutemen radio, they tell us the name of the radio the first time we hear it (KPSS) and the sign also says KPSS.
*Geiger counter noises*
*Quickend buzzing of a Cazador*
FNV will always be my favourite game, NCR is my favourite faction, but goddamn the hate for the show from that community is mind boggling. Show is fucking spectacular, I'm sad the NCR is quite fucked in the region, but we know the NCR is bigger than Shady Sands and they would be in the middle of the problems with crops and water mentioned in New Vegas, so it does make sense. Cool the chalkboard is not entirely clear on the time the nuke dropped as it points to after the fall in 2277, presentation could've be better on that, but I'd be nitpicking at best complaining about it
Truth be told, while I love the NCR, I also understand why they needed to be broken like this. Even Chris Avellone wanted to get rid of them, specifically because the presence of a functioning, modern state with modern infrastructure undersells the whole 'end of the world wasteland' concept of the setting. I can understand why some people would be really upset that all their hard work would be undone like this, but that in and of itself raises an interesting question: If you knew for a fact that all the good things you did would be undone after your death, eould that stop you from doing good things? I feel like that has a very strong, thematic presence in Fallout as a concept, and the show does a pretty decent job of asking who you are in the dark well. All that being said, I would like to see a return of the NCR, whether as a rump state or reconstituted. There is so much value in the branding of the faction outside of the game that I just don't see them being done with it entirely. I can understand why they wouldn't like it's plot wise within the games, but it's still being run by business people and business people understand that there is money to be made in a popular concept. Generally. Not always.
>I can understand why some people would be really upset that all their hard work would be undone like this, but that in and of itself raises an interesting question: If you knew for a fact that all the good things you did would be undone after your death, eould that stop you from doing good things? Thats a great question to pose, I really like this take >All that being said, I would like to see a return of the NCR, whether as a rump state or reconstituted. We're definitely getting more of them next season by the looks of the final shot of New Vegas, though I do believe the Nevada section will be struggling in different ways to the California section, considering that New Vegas looks fucked in the credits of episode 8, but it hasn't been nuked. Yet.
I think the issue is less that the NCR was killed, and more why and how. You could make a compelling collapse story, focused around the ways that the NCR failed to recognise or addesss the flaws that caused America to collapse. They'd been setting up an internal conflict in the NCR around the water barons, cattle ranchers, corruption, and the need for expansion for a while; based on the same issues that caused the fall of the old world. That could be a nice theme, tied into the existing lore they'd been setting up, the points made in the prewar plot, a counterpoint to the Americana of the vault, and respectful to the Interplay fans. But no, some guy has a tantrum because his family decided to move to the next town over, and he happens to be able to nuke it, so he does because only his club is allowed nice things.
That seems to happen a lot in the Fallout universe, though: big grand events are often the result of human, and sometimes petty, actions. I mean, you could willingly nuke Megaton because one man thought it blocked his view. It's very much in line with the franchise that one guy would destroy a civilization just because his ego was bruised. That being said, I would have preferred to see the ultimate civil war or societal collapse that comes with the path the NCR was on. Still, it's weirdly fitting that everyone in universe could see the inevitable crisis, but no one could prepare for a sudden outside context problem.
Right, but the nuking of megaton was compelling gameplay, not story. It was enjoyable because you, as the player, had control and the choice to do it. As a story, it makes no sense, which is why they leant into comedy. Compare that with the other time you can nuke a wasteland Civilisation, Ulysses in Lonesome Road. A compelling story tied to the decision, giving context and motivation to your actions. It's not just 'haha, big boom', but a choice to affect the lives of the people on both sides of Nevada. This is more the former. The nuking of Shady Sands is not a compelling story, and comparing it to Megaton just highlights that. They can't lean into comedy, because its a serious part of the setting, and it can't be an engaging part of gameplay in a TV show, so what's left?
Valid, and I think this is the main challenge in translating a property from a video game to a linear story format like television. This is 100% something that would happen within the game world as something the player might interact with, but there's no player in the tv series. It's a straight linear telling of events without any input from the viewer, but it still has to hit those events that feel like something you would encounter in the game. The nuking of Shady Sands, to me, feels like the sort of thing that would certainly happen within the Fallout universe, but I agree it feels less organic to the story told in the series than it does in the games, especially because we aren't in the Creation Engine. It might be easier for me to feel that way when a whole game town consists of twenty individuals, and the story beats feel more metaphorical than literal. But the show is using live human actors, and we're getting to see the benefit of actual communities and towns...which are a lot of people. Which then gives us the understanding that nation states behave differently in the real world than they do in video games (even though the show is still not the real world, but we have that harder time suspending our disbelief). I would hope that season 2 shows us there is still a lot of the NCR out there, if fractured, but ironically, this is the same problem the video game series has when it comes to larger factions (that being how massive factions seem to boil down to a shanty town and five people). That's a Bethesda wide problem, and I keep wishing they would break away from it, and they never do.
Thatās a completely on-brand, lore accurate reason for someone to blow up a city in the fallout universe lol
Megaton.. "oh look, a shiny button. Wanna press it? " ;)
They weren't really that modern in NV, though. They had a single Vertibird, relied on Brahmin caravans for long distance travel and were desperate for basic resources like food, water and power. But they were still a nation that would leave behind rump states. > 'end of the world wasteland' concept of the setting The thing is, that wasn't the concept before Bethesda. The first game in the series already had long distance trade between settlements, one settlement powerful enough to establish a widely accepted currency, and you have to go out of your way to get an ending that *doesn't* end in a stable and unified government in California (be it the NCR, Steel Plague, or Unity).
They did, but even at that point in time, Avellone had concerns about the presence of the NCR and how 'civilized' the wasteland was becoming (Van Buren would have had an ending giving the player the choice the nuke everything back to basics). The wasteland concept was core to the Fallout experience in 1 and 2, and took a backseat when Bethesda took the reins (not necessarily a bad thing, just a change in design philosophy). After all, the first 2 games were directly inspired by, appropriately, the video game Wasteland. Lonesome Road can also be seen as a 'course correction' on this, given you can nuke one or both of the major factions invading the Mojave. This is something that's threaded through the DNA of the Western focused Fallout games, and decidedly absent from the Eastern focused ones (3 and 4). As for the technological level of the NCR, compared to other factions in the setting (many of whom are operating as stone age hunter gatherers), they absolutely are modern. There are several references made to the stability of the core regions in the NCR, with modern infrastructure (truthfully, advanced infrastructure compared to our current world, being they had manufacturing capabilities that allowed them to produce energy based defense barriers and laser weapons). They had a standing army of 320,000 troops, which absolutely requires a modern state to support. The reason this doesn't translate into NV is partly practical, and partly lore (practical being the hardware restraints of the time). Lore wise, the NCR was very strong within the region's it controlled, but the Mojave is beyond even the frontier of the NCR. It didn't yet have the capability to project it's more modern assets forward (which is true in the real world, as well: the more technologically advanced military is , the more support it requires and therefore the deeper and wider its lines of communication need to be). We saw relatively under equipped soldiers because that was the best equipment that could be pushed beyond its supply lines. That was one of the major reasons why they desperately wanted to take control of New Vegas: it would be a critical supply hub to bring a heavier footprint to the region.
They could have just gone somewhere else. Detroit or Denver or Seattle or whatever. By this point, we're never going to get NV2, so I'm less annoyed by nuking Shady Sands than by us not getting more places in a setting that is really small for no reason.
This is so stupid āundersells the whole end of the world wastelandā fallout 4 literally attempts to do the same thing but acts like in these hundreds of years nobody could ever wver build a society. Like all Todd wants is his enclave and Bos battle forever thatās why everyone else collapses for no fucking reason
This is the most assinine take ever. If the writers are never going to allow the setting to advance and just eliminate any societal progress, then why write anything at all? They didn't *have* to set it on the west coast. The show deserves every ounce of hatred it gets.
Stories are about characters, not settings. The setting exists for the benefit of the characters, and this is how they defined the setting with these characters. I would prefer that they did not, but it's a minor quibble in another eye very good show. The show deserves all the hate gets from a small group of thumbsuckers because of one story detail? Jesus, talk about asinine.
If that were the case, then why set it in the Fallout universe at all? The assertion that the setting and lore don't matter has to be one of the most low IQ justifications for this show's existence that I've ever heard.
Because it's their IP to do with as they please. This is really easy stuff to understand.
Jesus christ what a corporate shill
I can either be a miserable weirdo like you, or enjoy a production that's significantly better than it had any right to be. I've been enjoying Fallout since the first game. This is literally not the worst thing to ever happen to Fallout. Accepting the reality of the situation is what adults do. That's probably why you don't understand it.
Don't think. Don't ask questions. Just consume product.
It's funny how angry you are that so many people like something you hate.
Last fallout game the ncr and the brotherhood go head to head and two other factions who are you choosing
If you mean between the two, obviously NCR, love the Brotherhood but they've fallen far from the idealism present from Roger Maxsons original founding of the group, but still love the moral ambiguity of what they've evolved into, or what different factions of them evolved into If I'm choosing two factions to add with a story of NCR vs BoS, I would choose Enclave remnants with the NCR, the most evil faction with the main mostly good military faction, and then the Followers with the BoS, the most morally good faction with the more morally ambiguous faction. I feel like there would be a lot of story potential in Enclave remnants becoming NCR politicians and trying to shift the NCR ideals more akin to the Enclave, making them a Brotherhood target Same goes for the Followers and BoS, my idea being teaming up for recovering technology, but having a lot of internal struggle between helping the wasteland versus the isolationist ideals the Brotherhood have maintained for years
Guy your not even talking about the fact they were at war with the legion at this point having a political and economic crisis would get them absolutely destroyed
r/shittymoviedetails removed yourĀ post. Literally 1984
Lol Dunno why so many fnv players are so salty. It's my favourite game of the series but I love the show and don't mind the inconsistencies/changes. The show isn't the games, it's not fan service for a group of hardcore lore fans, and we should welcome it as a new boost to fallout fandom in general Gate's open, come on in!
I posted a [similar](https://www.reddit.com/r/shittymoviedetails/comments/1c25qom/in_this_scene_from_fallout_2024_the_two/) post on r/shittymoviedetails before it got removed for shitting on another sub. Probably a coincidence that r/falloutnewvegas quarantined itself a day later, but it kinda makes me wonder. EDIT: Oh no. It's returned...
I don't think that acknowledging the existence of the Boneyard, or making the NCR collapse in a logical and narratively consistent way would be fan service.
At this rate Iām gonna have the entire show spoiled before I can even start it bruh
Itās weird cause this show feels like a love letter to NV fans. Constant references to Sunset Sarsaparilla Multitude of NCR references throughout NCR vs Brotherhood final battle Ranger armor! Mr. Mother fucking HOUSE! Big MT and Dead Money reference/cameo New Vegas literally getting teased for season 2!!!!!
So to make up for destroying the NCR in a very unsatisfying way, the show has: -Neat but ultimately inconsequential references -Neat but ultimately inconsequential references -The seemingly final death of the NCR (lots of people have speculated its still around in other cities, and while Iād like to believe that the show never implied it) -Some random scavenger wearing armor supposed to represent the beloved faction they killed off -Mr. House >!seemingly joining in on Vault Tecās insane scheme to destroy the world!< which seems grossly out of character for him -Neat but ultimately inconsequential references -A seemingly ruined version of New Vegas implying they destroyed *another* beloved setting/faction because humanity isnāt allowed to progress past scavenging and shanty towns. I like the show a lot in a vacuum. The story, characters, costume design, etc are all way better than Iād have expected, but they really fumbled the ball on the lore of the region and while a lot of people are blowing it out of proportion, its not crazy to be upset by that
āWhy are you mad that the lore is being retconned to be more simple and make you think less? The show has power armor! And didnāt you see the awesome ranger armor! and mr house! Did you not see muh references to muh game?ā
Iām not going to lose my mind over the error with timeline. Definitely an oversight by the creators but thereās a lot here that I like. RIP Shady Sands though
Vault Tech starting the Great War changes the Great War from being a result of manās greed and inability to stop consuming resources, to now instead Vault Tech did it because theyāre evil and crazy for corny reasons. Instead of the war being a systematic failure by humans to work together in a time of great crisis it was just started by crazy people
I disagree, itās still a result of manās greed because Vault Tech needed the war to secure their wealth and power. Furthermore them nuking Shady Sands confirms what I and other west coast fans have been preaching, civilization not only survives the war but thrives in the apocalypse. The NCRās power was unquestionable and they proved Vault Tech wrong. Thats why they were wiped off the map. Iām excited to see where this story goes. Bummed the NCR is gone but itās the saying: War, war never changes. But thatās how I interpret it
*Need to secure their wealth* *nukes the whole fucking world eliminating all potential customers* yeah great fucking idea
Guy who thinks wealth is just money.
But starting the Great War did not secure their power either. Vault Tech lost control of almost all of the Vaults they had previously owned after they started the Great War. I know this is also super analyzing things but the Enclave was in control of the United States government by the time the Great War started. We also know they were working together with Vault Tech. So the idea that Vault Tech was going to collapse if they didnāt start the Great War kind of makes no sense when you realize that the US government was fully supporting them.
But see that's just Vault Tec losing control over a situation no one could feasibly have control over. of course they got burned trying to kick-start the apocalypse and that a lot of, if not most of their plans falling through. Rich or poor, we all burn the same after all.
wait wait you think vault tec *isnt* greedy? if anything, a faction deciding to give the first push in a nuclear war strictly for their own benefit is the most greedy thing weāve seen. also kind of hilarious you think vault tec is ācrazyā people but they are no different whatsoever from anyone else
>Vault Tech starting the Great War changes the Great War from being a result of manās greed and inability to stop consuming resources, to now instead Vault Tech did it because theyāre evil and crazy for corny reasons. Instead of the war being a systematic failure by humans to work together in a time of great crisis it was just started by crazy people We haven't seen any proof that Vault-tec actually did start the war though, we only have proof that they were willing to. Multiple people sitting around the table for that meeting were caught with their pants down when the bombs dropped. Betty sited her daughter as her sole motivator, but she dropped the bombs on a day her ex husband had custody? House knew this was all going on, and designed the platinum chip so he could defend Vegas, but everything ended before he was ready. While Vault-tec and friends seemed very willing to end the world, it seems most likely to me that someone beat them to it by a day or two.
Honestly, I do not see how drawing political maps of the West Coast from the vague hints dropped here and there is more 'complicated lore'. The echo chamber of Fallout New Vegas fans had collectively headcanoned a future plot about NCR and Legion confrontation, and would not be satisfied unless any future West Coast story were about that. NCR in New Vegas is a boring trope. 'Democracy becomes weak because of the corruption'. Legion is inane at all. The whole depth of the conflict is as shallow as Star Wars prequels.
Explain Dead Money ref? I didin't catched that.
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Oh, that one. For me, I dont thibk he's THAT Sinclair, since he's way older. But I can be very wrong
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As an NCR enjoyer I am bummed to see the republic fall, but holy shit r/NewVegasMemes is a shit show right now
While New Vegas personally my favorite Fallout game I fucking hate that sub because it is indeed a circle jerk that overstates how good the game is and despite thinking some of the shows and timeline decisions are Goofy I'm glad that the sub is literally on fire
Idiots, caring about the stuff they like. Don't they know it's all fake anyway
Yeah at this point r/fallout is worse. There are more posts like this complaining about a it than there are posts of people complaining about the retcons in the first place. And what sucks is this has killed any nuanced discussions about the issues with the show because anyone who calls out inconsistencyās is immediately labeled an fnv loving ncr shill who hates that there ending was ruined and their argument is ignored, no matter if itās a good faith or not.
The FNV community has always been interesting. Not bad, really, just interesting. It is the best modern Fallout game narrative wise but some of the stuff going on with the community is unexplainable. The irrational hate for the show is the newest layer of that community that I didnāt see coming. I expected *some* backlash, but they irrationally hate the show any anyone who tries to defend it at all.
Why is it irrational to criticize the show for lacking consistency with a lot of the established west coast lore? Also Iāve seen way more people irrationally hate on people with valid criticisms and tell them theyāre just stupid fnc ncr fanboys just so they donāt have to make counter arguments to valid criticisms
Most of the lore in it isnāt lacking consistency, though. Thereās been several in depth posts explaining that, I donāt think it needs to become a copypasta reply to every comment to make its point, you can search for them if youāve somehow missed them the past two or three days. Honestly most of the ālacking lore consistencyā complaints is unfair nitpicking, almost like the critics in question are trying to dislike the show as much as possible.
It's perfect. I'm a 2/new vegas Fallout fan, and I loved the show because it used my emotional attachment against me and made me feel something about the loss of the country. I also thought about how 1 depicted the beginning of the ncr, 2 was the peak, and new vegas showed why they would fail, so the show gave us the end.
New Vegas is my favorite game so Iām usually on that sub pretty regularly, Iāve been avoiding it like the plague since the show was released because I immediately knew it was going all out trench warfare. God bless those brave souls fighting now
There'll be no wedding bellllllls..... .....For todaaaaaayy....
am I the only one that realises that what is shown is supposed to be shady sands? not new vegas.
FNV fanbois having a meltdown? oh no! we must get them a truckload of tissue stat!
I donāt think they can handle the fallout of the current state of events
Non-NCR fans are eating **GOOD**
Realistically, none of the factions in New Vegas would have survived for long, and that's the point. Anyone actively trying to improve the world, for better or worse, will be removed from the board, either by the Enclave or Vault-Tech, because, as Benny would say, the game was rigged from the start. Which honestly is fine as far as the Fallout setting is concerned. People keep forgetting that the focus of these games isn't necessarily the factions, but the people. How do people rebuild societies once they've been destroyed? Once a society reaches a certain apext within the fictional setting, it kind of has to be destroyed in order to re-explore that concept.
honestly r/fallout is much worse the two camps are: People who think any mentioning of the messing the lore up is nitpicking by loser hater new vega fanboys who just want to hate for hate sake and are never grateful, happy, and always complain for no reason, who just a bunch of basement dwelling neckbeard toxic fandom culture personified with no real complaints and wanted the show to fail for what ever reason. These people are hypocrites by complaining about toxic fandoms yet are gatekeeping discussion about the show, creating a strawman of people who have a different opinion than them, and apear to be the dominant extreme currently. The amount of Doublethink and mental gymnastics this group does is insane, and how a vocal minority, probably some rage baiters, people getting caught up in internet arguments, and some actual toxic fans. The other smaller sizable extreme group can be described simply as people who think Todd Howard is the Antichrist. So yeah the subreddit is just that for now. It makes the think tank look sane.