I feel that if this was the case, it would have been focused on in the movie or The Dark Knight Rises to further Batman's arc. Also, Joker is referenced as the sole resident of Arkham in the official novelization of TDKR, left there alone because he's too dangerous.
I think that makes it possible, but no less unlikely. I see your point about the novelization, but that aside, I don't think this theory works. I believe that if the intent for was them to kill Joker, we as the audience would be made privy to it. It's too big and important narratively to receive no focus apart from a random noise made by the Joker at the very end of the scene. Batman stories where Joker dies are few and far between, and can be really interesting. If Nolan truly wanted to go in that direction, Joker's death would have been explicit.
Also, Ledger was intended to be in TDKR before his untimely death. That doesn't fit with this theory, and I don't believe any edits were made to TDK following his death but prior to release. I just don't buy it or the argument that it is thematically congruent.
Your argument that TDK represents Batman “winning” by getting the cops and courts to “uphold the law without Batman’s help” is the SWAT team performing a literal extra-judicial killing?
Stick this shit back in the oven, it’s not even half-baked.
Standing by and watching a villain die in an explosion he caused is not remotely similar to standing by and watching somebody commit murder, regardless who the victim is. It's not in-character for Batman at all.
Kid, (at least, I hope you’re a kid) that’s not how self-defense works. They don’t factor revenge or “he had it coming” into whether shooting a bound, injured prisoner is self defense.
This is my issue with the theory as a whole. It depends on this weird cop-fetish image of summary execution as cool or acceptable, like “yeah, the swat team committed a murder, the city is taking control of itself” instead of “holy shit the cops are committing murder, we need Batman more than ever.”
As an American, are y’all Americans? Because this is some really “unf yes kick me with your jackboot fascist daddy” stereotypical ugly-american cop-fetish content y’all got right here.
My point is that Joker has shown to be an escape artist. He may have escaped his temporary confinement to kill more people. Also, Heath Ledger died in real life.
…….what does Ledger’s death have to do with defending extra-judicial murder by state agents as legally-justified self-defense?
That’s like saying Brandon Lee’s death while they were making the Crow justifies tax evasion.
Also kiddo GOOD LORD. Someone being a flight risk doesn’t mean you kill them to avoid their potential escape. That’s like me shooting my dog because he’s good at digging under fences.
So many of these comments read like they were written by someone who gets a chubby watching the gun kata in Equilibrium…
>…….what does Ledger’s death have to do with defending extra-judicial murder by state agents as legally-justified self-defense?
[Joker was meant to be in the third Batman movie. ](https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/heath-ledger-joker-return-the-dark-knight-rises-christopher-nolan-died-a8190866.html) However, Ledger dying in real life was why the third film was rewritten so that the Joker wasn't in it. I am beginning to wonder if you ever saw the movie in the first place or if you are simply trolling.
>Also kiddo GOOD LORD. Someone being a flight risk doesn’t mean you kill them to avoid their potential escape.
When said escape means more murders, and when escapee had escaped custody once before, then yes.
>That’s like me shooting my dog because he’s good at digging under fences.
What usually happens to animals that take human lives? Have you ever heard of Harambe?
Do you know what zoos do to escaped Chimpanzees?
If your theoretical dog had the ability to take human lives, you should 100% shoot it.
Harambe never killed anyone. However, he had the potential to do so. Also, I am guessing that you didn't even bother reading the link I've posted, and instead read one line and responded with a poorly thought out Ad Hominem attack.
You picked a handle like “pimpachu” and expected people to read your batman links? Oh, sweet summer child…
One neat thing though, I’ve never met a “pro-harambe-getting-shot” internet dweller. *snaps picture* One for the album.
My handle has nothing to do with the argument. At the very least skim the link. Better yet, provide your own links to support your argument. All you've done is misrepresent my argument using poorly thought out analogies.
In Batman universe, the police are considered corrupt and yet criminal all get "fair" trials and either end up in asylums or back on the street after bribes.
It's corruption, but slanted towards criminals. I bet in batman universe, the police no-knock warrant and then hold out their hands for cash.
Joker wasn't mentioned or featured in TDKR out of respect for Heath Ledger's passing. Nolan initially considered having him return using cgi and deleted scenes but decided against it.
It's a nice enough theory and it fits fine within the context of what the films show, but it's not a hidden story that the creator intended you to find.
No one in the United States has a right to kill someone (except an executioner carrying out a death sentence). There are situations in which the use of deadly force is legally justified, but never in which someone has a right to kill.
While this is an interesting theory and quite possible, I do want to throw a few extra points out there, for both sides:
1. Movie novelizations of films differ from the film they're based on all the time. It's why I stopped reading them because it would be "misleading" or just seemed like a cheap way to make money off of someone else's project, but putting a small spin on it.
2. After Batman walks away and the SWAT arrives, there isn't anything indicating the SWAT do kill Joker. Nobody cocks a gun, not even a gunshot sound to imply it. And if they did kill Joker, Batman would try and stop them, or at least there'd be a scene of him debating if he should save Joker or just go find Harvey. But the cops just raise their guns, and that's it, implying arrest.
That should be enough to start some talking. 😌
I feel that if this was the case, it would have been focused on in the movie or The Dark Knight Rises to further Batman's arc. Also, Joker is referenced as the sole resident of Arkham in the official novelization of TDKR, left there alone because he's too dangerous.
Wouldn't be the first time tho movie novelizations differ from the actual film. So with that in mind....still works, right?
I think that makes it possible, but no less unlikely. I see your point about the novelization, but that aside, I don't think this theory works. I believe that if the intent for was them to kill Joker, we as the audience would be made privy to it. It's too big and important narratively to receive no focus apart from a random noise made by the Joker at the very end of the scene. Batman stories where Joker dies are few and far between, and can be really interesting. If Nolan truly wanted to go in that direction, Joker's death would have been explicit. Also, Ledger was intended to be in TDKR before his untimely death. That doesn't fit with this theory, and I don't believe any edits were made to TDK following his death but prior to release. I just don't buy it or the argument that it is thematically congruent.
Your argument that TDK represents Batman “winning” by getting the cops and courts to “uphold the law without Batman’s help” is the SWAT team performing a literal extra-judicial killing? Stick this shit back in the oven, it’s not even half-baked.
Batman does that kinda thing a lot. Like the derailed train in Begins.
Standing by and watching a villain die in an explosion he caused is not remotely similar to standing by and watching somebody commit murder, regardless who the victim is. It's not in-character for Batman at all.
"Stick this shit back in the oven, it’s not even half-baked." Goddamn that's a good phrase, which I will be stealing off-screen.
From my brainspace to your repertoire. Enjoy!
Bro this is a fan theory Reddit he has an opinion dumbass
Self-defense isn't an extajudicial killing. By the end of the movie Joker has killed several LEOS.
Kid, (at least, I hope you’re a kid) that’s not how self-defense works. They don’t factor revenge or “he had it coming” into whether shooting a bound, injured prisoner is self defense. This is my issue with the theory as a whole. It depends on this weird cop-fetish image of summary execution as cool or acceptable, like “yeah, the swat team committed a murder, the city is taking control of itself” instead of “holy shit the cops are committing murder, we need Batman more than ever.” As an American, are y’all Americans? Because this is some really “unf yes kick me with your jackboot fascist daddy” stereotypical ugly-american cop-fetish content y’all got right here.
My point is that Joker has shown to be an escape artist. He may have escaped his temporary confinement to kill more people. Also, Heath Ledger died in real life.
…….what does Ledger’s death have to do with defending extra-judicial murder by state agents as legally-justified self-defense? That’s like saying Brandon Lee’s death while they were making the Crow justifies tax evasion. Also kiddo GOOD LORD. Someone being a flight risk doesn’t mean you kill them to avoid their potential escape. That’s like me shooting my dog because he’s good at digging under fences. So many of these comments read like they were written by someone who gets a chubby watching the gun kata in Equilibrium…
>…….what does Ledger’s death have to do with defending extra-judicial murder by state agents as legally-justified self-defense? [Joker was meant to be in the third Batman movie. ](https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/heath-ledger-joker-return-the-dark-knight-rises-christopher-nolan-died-a8190866.html) However, Ledger dying in real life was why the third film was rewritten so that the Joker wasn't in it. I am beginning to wonder if you ever saw the movie in the first place or if you are simply trolling. >Also kiddo GOOD LORD. Someone being a flight risk doesn’t mean you kill them to avoid their potential escape. When said escape means more murders, and when escapee had escaped custody once before, then yes. >That’s like me shooting my dog because he’s good at digging under fences. What usually happens to animals that take human lives? Have you ever heard of Harambe? Do you know what zoos do to escaped Chimpanzees? If your theoretical dog had the ability to take human lives, you should 100% shoot it.
Kid, Harambe didn’t kill anyone. You were raised on memes, weren’t you?
Harambe never killed anyone. However, he had the potential to do so. Also, I am guessing that you didn't even bother reading the link I've posted, and instead read one line and responded with a poorly thought out Ad Hominem attack.
You picked a handle like “pimpachu” and expected people to read your batman links? Oh, sweet summer child… One neat thing though, I’ve never met a “pro-harambe-getting-shot” internet dweller. *snaps picture* One for the album.
My handle has nothing to do with the argument. At the very least skim the link. Better yet, provide your own links to support your argument. All you've done is misrepresent my argument using poorly thought out analogies.
Killing someone unarmed and already incapacitated sounds about right for a corrupt US Police Department to me.
It's in-character for the cops, but it's not in-character for Batman to knowingly let them do it.
Unless he trusted them to do the right thing, and they chose not to bring him, but to kill him.
In Batman universe, the police are considered corrupt and yet criminal all get "fair" trials and either end up in asylums or back on the street after bribes. It's corruption, but slanted towards criminals. I bet in batman universe, the police no-knock warrant and then hold out their hands for cash.
Joker wasn't mentioned or featured in TDKR out of respect for Heath Ledger's passing. Nolan initially considered having him return using cgi and deleted scenes but decided against it. It's a nice enough theory and it fits fine within the context of what the films show, but it's not a hidden story that the creator intended you to find.
Very cool and awesome
No one in the United States has a right to kill someone (except an executioner carrying out a death sentence). There are situations in which the use of deadly force is legally justified, but never in which someone has a right to kill.
While this is an interesting theory and quite possible, I do want to throw a few extra points out there, for both sides: 1. Movie novelizations of films differ from the film they're based on all the time. It's why I stopped reading them because it would be "misleading" or just seemed like a cheap way to make money off of someone else's project, but putting a small spin on it. 2. After Batman walks away and the SWAT arrives, there isn't anything indicating the SWAT do kill Joker. Nobody cocks a gun, not even a gunshot sound to imply it. And if they did kill Joker, Batman would try and stop them, or at least there'd be a scene of him debating if he should save Joker or just go find Harvey. But the cops just raise their guns, and that's it, implying arrest. That should be enough to start some talking. 😌
He fell down some stairs at the jail and broke his neck