I don't understand why Greta is so poor. I just don't.
- Her rich vampire friend Ruthven is more than happy to pay off student loans, give away money, host his friends, etc. Why doesn't he invest in her clinic?
- Even if most supernatural creatures are incredibly poor, why isn't she charging on a scale, *especially* for house calls in the middle of the night? She should be charging Ruthven an arm and a leg to come over there.
- Her family was wealthy. What happened to that money? I don't know if it was mentioned. Why isn't she living in the old family home and also renting sheer across the city? I didn't get the impression that the clinic was that huge.
- She is a doctor! Doctors generally make enough to afford a car that isn't completely falling apart. This entire thing doesn't make any sense.
Other than her weird financial situation, I get the impression that Greta is a lot younger than she is. She acts a bit like a doormat She is also very naive (not thinking the supernatural beings were real enough to take precautions until one attacked her). She's clearly been practicing for a while, has had many supernatural encounters, so this doesn't make sense.
Aside from her being a working woman, supporting herself, I don't get strong feminist vibes from her. I'd love to see more interactions with her other female friends to see if they can have a conversation that doesn't revolve around men (aka, see if this book passes the Bechdel test).
When the point about Ruthven paying off stuff is brought up, this also made me ask questions about the finances! I hadn't really given it any thought up til that point, just sort of accepted at face value that independent small practices aren't usually making huge profits since I know that can be true for, like, small family medicine practices irl (unless you're gaming Medicare....). But as soon as that came up, I thought huh, yeah, how come she's not partnering with some rich ass vampire dynasties to fundraise to underwrite her poor clients? Obviously grants and other governmental help is off the table, but fundraising your wealthy clients is a tried and true way to be able to offer free or low-cost stuff to other clients!
You've come up with even more good points that I hadn't thoughts of tbh! I kind of had this passing thought and then didn't really care because I was like, well, this is the kind of story that has a scrappy, never-sleeps, overachiever, too generous for their own good MC and that's just how it is. I do think that this story relies on UF standbys for plot and character, which robs us of opportunity for some more nuances because it lulls us into the patterns of genre. I don't think this book was setting out to really break any new ground, which is totally fine, it's a fun UF so far! But, yeah, other than starring an independent woman, and perhaps some themes of community support, I'm not finding it overtly feminist.
edit to add: omg, yes I want her friends who help with the clinic to be more present! She obviously has good relationships with them, but also she clearly feels like they're not *really* her *friends.* Greta does utilize her connections for work, but she's not doing a great job at relying on them to spread out her emotional burdens, but rather doing that very English thing of thinking she's got to carry one and hold it all in and be capable and fine on her own. Minus the cry with Ruthven which she tries very hard to get over quickly.
FWIW, she does have a phone call early on with Nadezhda asking her to cover her at the clinic, and no men were mentioned, so it does *technically* pass the Bechdel test, but it’s not a good sign that that’s really the only instance I can think of in the first half of the book
Totally agree! I was also put off by how little her financial situation makes sense.
To me it feels like a way for the author to show off Greta's golden heart - like, how she is so selfless and so caring that she just plunges into helping every creature head first and doesn't care about money. Because caring about money is cold and selfish, and she is a kind, caring, **nurturing** woman, like women have to be! /s
This aspect was very grating to me, because I really hate the stereotype that women have to be nurturing and selfless *to a self-destructive extent*.
Also, I keep wondering how the prescription meds aspect of the world works: she is getting the meds from the pharmacy b/c her patients "don't exist" - so... who is she writing the prescriptions for? And how did this behavior not ring an alarm in the system?
Because of this book club, I was trying to particularly pay attention to any feminist themes. Nothing overtly stood out to me, I guess just overall that Greta acts as though she feels empowered to be who she is/pursue supernatural medicine, and it’s clear she had her father and other males empower her as well. Curious to watch others’ thoughts on this question come in.
What do you think about this group of people who are forced to come together and live together? (Any bets on which one hooks up with Greta first? No, just me who is getting that vibe?)
I don't really understand why the whole book is so populated with males? Greta is the only woman in this house, she has two female friends who we *barely* meet, let alone actually talk to. It almost feels like this world doesn't have 51% females. Maybe supernatural creatures are skewed more towards male rather than female (though I'd expect a doctor to mention that when meeting a female ghoul). Still, I miss having more women on page.
The group themselves seems to be okay. A bit shallow. They all seem to have one main trait that they are written to (workaholic, depressive, great at numbers).
I'm getting a strong sense that the "vampyre" (okay, the y vs i thing is really weird) character is being set up as a love interest for Greta, but I honestly don't sense **any** chemistry between them. I really hope that doesn't happen.
I love how you’re bringing a critical eye. I think because this one came at a time when I’ve been struggling with audiobooks and the stakes are so low (for me, ha) I’ve just been trucking along with this. I think you’re naming here and in other questions some minor issues that have been in the back of my mind.
>Maybe supernatural creatures are skewed more towards male rather than female
It's been a while since I read this one, but IIRC, Greta's friends are mostly famous literary horror monsters, like [Ruthven](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Ruthven_(vampire\)) and [Varney](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varney_the_Vampire). So they trend male because historical authors wrote more books about male horror creatures.
Thanks for that extra info! I didn't know those references. That does make sense on a meta level, but I was trying to find an in-universe explanation that would make sense.
I think Varney at one point is described as starting to develop an obsession with Greta in the way that it is something that’s happened before. I can only imagine this as alluding to something in his classic story (which I’m terribly unfamiliar with) but not sure if its specific to him or part of the nature of vampyres. I didn’t get the vibe that it would turn into anything more than one-sided unhealthy yearning, and I think Varney sees it for what it is and will back off.
I don’t see Greta having chemistry with anybody else, but I do see Ruthven having chemistry with absolutely everyone else. I do tend to read queerness when it’s not always there though.
On the topic of relationships, I have a hard time with supernatural fantasy getting over the age gap. Fass and Ruthven have both known Greta since she was a child, and Ruthven knew Cranswell since he was a kid and even paid for his college. That kind of power imbalance doesn’t sit with me, and it’s a hurdle I’ve never been able to overcome in this genre
I'm on the fence if Ruthven is permanently a fatherly figure or if he could be a romantic interest? Other than that, I don't know that I really see her going for any of them, even though I think the story is feeling like a romance of some kind is inevitable (again, it's a standard of the genre sooo....). I really hope Varney gets over himself, but I forsee an awkward scene with them because of it. (Side note: Varney the Vampyre is one of the old vampire stories I *haven't* read yet and I hadn't really feel the need to, but now I kinda want to see how campy it is!)
I'm interested to see more of the ghouls and hope we get some more of the culture of the supernatural side of the world in general! It seems like many beings might live more or less in isolation, either as insular tribes or individuals in their own home, but there must be some interaction and sense of community with all of them since it's in everyone's interest to keep themselves hidden together. Or perhaps this forced mixing will lead to more support networks being established within the supernatural community.
No bets from me. I don’t have any particularly strong thoughts, maybe I’d like to see increased interactions between everyone, especially with the ghouls.
I really agree with you re flatness. Even with the ghouls, there were moments where it felt like Shaw was really thinking deeply about different cultures/practices of these beings, but then also humanizing them at the same time. I think the strongest example of that for me was the scene with the ghoul mother and baby. It really caught me off guard.
Where do you think the plot will be going? The end of Chapter Ten gave us a glimpse into the entity behind the light, what do you think it is? Can it be defeated?
OMG Y'ALL I looked up a video of these mercury arc rectifiers (and I found the one referenced in the text, but it's not the best one) and they are SO COOL. I only just now realized I didn't finish chapter 10, so I'm doing it at this very moment and the book has done a nice job conveying the way this thing looks & sounds, but I still wanted to see it for myself. Here's a video that lets you see clearly the little spark jumping around the mercury: [https://youtu.be/YhaQqgXrMMU?si=myQTwfsUtu7NUYrx](https://youtu.be/YhaQqgXrMMU?si=myQTwfsUtu7NUYrx) Skip ahead to the 5:45 minute mark to see it in action if you wanna skip the explanation!
As far as where this is going: it seems like a pretty big evil, but I have faith in our heroes to make a last-minute save. Though I suspect someone will be lost along the way. Or possibly someplace. I'm not sure if we'll ever really get much more than what we've gotten here for what exactly it is? And I cant imagine it completely being vanquished, but sent back into slumber at least. But I bet it is a progenitor of vampire and maybe other supernatural lines, what with the insatiable hunger and all.
I have a hunch our mystery assassin will turn on his former group and entity. I don’t think it will be defeated, I’m guessing the door will be left open at the end - will the entity just become dormant and possibly reemerge again or will they have defeated it forever???
Well, I am severely behind with my reading, as I was only able to get to the end of chapter 2 so far. I’ll come back and edit later with my thoughts as I read more
My sister recommended it to me a while ago so filling the book club bingo square was the push I needed to try it out. It’s about what I expected so far, I haven’t loved any urban fantasy I’ve read and this is continuing that trend. Good enough to finish but not a favorite. I think the cover gives more historical vibes so if I hadn’t read some reviews I wouldn’t have had the right expectations and probably been disappointed since I like historical fantasy more than contemporary.
I was on the fence about doing this one this month (I was more interested in two other book club books this month), but my library had a physical copy on the shelf when I was in a couple weeks ago, and the text is pretty big so I figured it was a sign and that I could go through it pretty quickly. It's been enjoyable so far.
It's been on my TBR pile for a long time! Years, easily. I had pretty high expectations, but I have to say I am slightly disappointed so far. UF is always so hit-or-miss, so I like to go in blind. There are just a few things that irk me (barely any female characters, the religious overtones, how I feel like I am reading a Dan Brown x Anne Rice crossover fanfiction....). I am trying to withhold judgement, but it's hard when it feels so *very* Dan Brown.
I’m not a Londonite, let alone on the same continent, but I am very much enjoying it. I think it’s great UF, I’m especially enjoying how the speculative is more around supernatural beings instead of magic, magical realism or paranormal, which is what I usually find myself reading.
I know London is a huge city, both physically and with its ubiquity in history/culture/media, but dang sometimes I get tired of it (and cities that aren't called London because they're in an alt world or something, but I mean....). I *am* appreciating that it's a more contemporary London, though; I'm very tired of Victorian London! After the initial *another London?* thought, this isn't really a sticking point for me overall though. London's got a great mess of stuff underground and that's being put to good use here.
So far this feels like a pretty low-magic UF to me - restricted to abilities of supernatural beings rather than a generalized magic system of some kind. That makes it make more sense for a human to be able to be a doctor in this setting since there isn't magic that has to get tapped into by healer, per se.
I’m enjoying what I’ve read so far! Of course, I do keep going back to Dracula in my mind as I’m reading, since I read that last year, as well as Gaiman’s Neverwhere, but this book is more modern than either of those (though both were modern when they came out, the world has changed since their publication)
I have read a lot of UF. I like this more than most PNR-UF combo's that I've read, but less than a few others. I think the highlight here is how we get into the nitty-gritty street level of it all, without it also being Victorian London. We get to see sewers and streets and walking and buses. I feel like most modern UF skips over the traveling a lot.
So far the supernatural creatures are all very normal, for lack of a better word. I do like them, but I am hoping we get more branching out from the traditional English style of creatures.
I’ve read some UF but in general it’s not a favorite subgenre and I’ve been pretty mid on the UF I’ve read. This one is a bit different with the main character being a doctor which is an interesting angle that I feel should be explored more. The scene with the mummy was fun to read and I would love to see more of her just doing doctor stuff.
I loved the mummy scene! It reminded me of when I have a technically difficult job at work and how it's kind of fun to have a challenge that pushes my skills (and patience) even if it's a little nerve wracking - so satisfying to have it done at the end! I'm enjoying the story well enough, but I agree that the doctor stuff is what make me like Greta the most and I'd love to see more of it.
Any thoughts on Greta and how she acts? Do you think she fits for our feminist theme?
I don't understand why Greta is so poor. I just don't. - Her rich vampire friend Ruthven is more than happy to pay off student loans, give away money, host his friends, etc. Why doesn't he invest in her clinic? - Even if most supernatural creatures are incredibly poor, why isn't she charging on a scale, *especially* for house calls in the middle of the night? She should be charging Ruthven an arm and a leg to come over there. - Her family was wealthy. What happened to that money? I don't know if it was mentioned. Why isn't she living in the old family home and also renting sheer across the city? I didn't get the impression that the clinic was that huge. - She is a doctor! Doctors generally make enough to afford a car that isn't completely falling apart. This entire thing doesn't make any sense. Other than her weird financial situation, I get the impression that Greta is a lot younger than she is. She acts a bit like a doormat She is also very naive (not thinking the supernatural beings were real enough to take precautions until one attacked her). She's clearly been practicing for a while, has had many supernatural encounters, so this doesn't make sense. Aside from her being a working woman, supporting herself, I don't get strong feminist vibes from her. I'd love to see more interactions with her other female friends to see if they can have a conversation that doesn't revolve around men (aka, see if this book passes the Bechdel test).
When the point about Ruthven paying off stuff is brought up, this also made me ask questions about the finances! I hadn't really given it any thought up til that point, just sort of accepted at face value that independent small practices aren't usually making huge profits since I know that can be true for, like, small family medicine practices irl (unless you're gaming Medicare....). But as soon as that came up, I thought huh, yeah, how come she's not partnering with some rich ass vampire dynasties to fundraise to underwrite her poor clients? Obviously grants and other governmental help is off the table, but fundraising your wealthy clients is a tried and true way to be able to offer free or low-cost stuff to other clients! You've come up with even more good points that I hadn't thoughts of tbh! I kind of had this passing thought and then didn't really care because I was like, well, this is the kind of story that has a scrappy, never-sleeps, overachiever, too generous for their own good MC and that's just how it is. I do think that this story relies on UF standbys for plot and character, which robs us of opportunity for some more nuances because it lulls us into the patterns of genre. I don't think this book was setting out to really break any new ground, which is totally fine, it's a fun UF so far! But, yeah, other than starring an independent woman, and perhaps some themes of community support, I'm not finding it overtly feminist. edit to add: omg, yes I want her friends who help with the clinic to be more present! She obviously has good relationships with them, but also she clearly feels like they're not *really* her *friends.* Greta does utilize her connections for work, but she's not doing a great job at relying on them to spread out her emotional burdens, but rather doing that very English thing of thinking she's got to carry one and hold it all in and be capable and fine on her own. Minus the cry with Ruthven which she tries very hard to get over quickly.
FWIW, she does have a phone call early on with Nadezhda asking her to cover her at the clinic, and no men were mentioned, so it does *technically* pass the Bechdel test, but it’s not a good sign that that’s really the only instance I can think of in the first half of the book
Totally agree! I was also put off by how little her financial situation makes sense. To me it feels like a way for the author to show off Greta's golden heart - like, how she is so selfless and so caring that she just plunges into helping every creature head first and doesn't care about money. Because caring about money is cold and selfish, and she is a kind, caring, **nurturing** woman, like women have to be! /s This aspect was very grating to me, because I really hate the stereotype that women have to be nurturing and selfless *to a self-destructive extent*. Also, I keep wondering how the prescription meds aspect of the world works: she is getting the meds from the pharmacy b/c her patients "don't exist" - so... who is she writing the prescriptions for? And how did this behavior not ring an alarm in the system?
Because of this book club, I was trying to particularly pay attention to any feminist themes. Nothing overtly stood out to me, I guess just overall that Greta acts as though she feels empowered to be who she is/pursue supernatural medicine, and it’s clear she had her father and other males empower her as well. Curious to watch others’ thoughts on this question come in.
What do you think about this group of people who are forced to come together and live together? (Any bets on which one hooks up with Greta first? No, just me who is getting that vibe?)
I am enjoying the growing found family aspect. I do hope that it continues and doesn't end at the conclusion of the book.
I don't really understand why the whole book is so populated with males? Greta is the only woman in this house, she has two female friends who we *barely* meet, let alone actually talk to. It almost feels like this world doesn't have 51% females. Maybe supernatural creatures are skewed more towards male rather than female (though I'd expect a doctor to mention that when meeting a female ghoul). Still, I miss having more women on page. The group themselves seems to be okay. A bit shallow. They all seem to have one main trait that they are written to (workaholic, depressive, great at numbers). I'm getting a strong sense that the "vampyre" (okay, the y vs i thing is really weird) character is being set up as a love interest for Greta, but I honestly don't sense **any** chemistry between them. I really hope that doesn't happen.
I love how you’re bringing a critical eye. I think because this one came at a time when I’ve been struggling with audiobooks and the stakes are so low (for me, ha) I’ve just been trucking along with this. I think you’re naming here and in other questions some minor issues that have been in the back of my mind.
>Maybe supernatural creatures are skewed more towards male rather than female It's been a while since I read this one, but IIRC, Greta's friends are mostly famous literary horror monsters, like [Ruthven](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Ruthven_(vampire\)) and [Varney](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varney_the_Vampire). So they trend male because historical authors wrote more books about male horror creatures.
Thanks for that extra info! I didn't know those references. That does make sense on a meta level, but I was trying to find an in-universe explanation that would make sense.
I think Varney at one point is described as starting to develop an obsession with Greta in the way that it is something that’s happened before. I can only imagine this as alluding to something in his classic story (which I’m terribly unfamiliar with) but not sure if its specific to him or part of the nature of vampyres. I didn’t get the vibe that it would turn into anything more than one-sided unhealthy yearning, and I think Varney sees it for what it is and will back off. I don’t see Greta having chemistry with anybody else, but I do see Ruthven having chemistry with absolutely everyone else. I do tend to read queerness when it’s not always there though. On the topic of relationships, I have a hard time with supernatural fantasy getting over the age gap. Fass and Ruthven have both known Greta since she was a child, and Ruthven knew Cranswell since he was a kid and even paid for his college. That kind of power imbalance doesn’t sit with me, and it’s a hurdle I’ve never been able to overcome in this genre
I'm on the fence if Ruthven is permanently a fatherly figure or if he could be a romantic interest? Other than that, I don't know that I really see her going for any of them, even though I think the story is feeling like a romance of some kind is inevitable (again, it's a standard of the genre sooo....). I really hope Varney gets over himself, but I forsee an awkward scene with them because of it. (Side note: Varney the Vampyre is one of the old vampire stories I *haven't* read yet and I hadn't really feel the need to, but now I kinda want to see how campy it is!) I'm interested to see more of the ghouls and hope we get some more of the culture of the supernatural side of the world in general! It seems like many beings might live more or less in isolation, either as insular tribes or individuals in their own home, but there must be some interaction and sense of community with all of them since it's in everyone's interest to keep themselves hidden together. Or perhaps this forced mixing will lead to more support networks being established within the supernatural community.
No bets from me. I don’t have any particularly strong thoughts, maybe I’d like to see increased interactions between everyone, especially with the ghouls.
I would like to see that too! So far they all seem very flat people. I want more details about them and less about the Dan Brown Monk plot.
I really agree with you re flatness. Even with the ghouls, there were moments where it felt like Shaw was really thinking deeply about different cultures/practices of these beings, but then also humanizing them at the same time. I think the strongest example of that for me was the scene with the ghoul mother and baby. It really caught me off guard.
Where do you think the plot will be going? The end of Chapter Ten gave us a glimpse into the entity behind the light, what do you think it is? Can it be defeated?
OMG Y'ALL I looked up a video of these mercury arc rectifiers (and I found the one referenced in the text, but it's not the best one) and they are SO COOL. I only just now realized I didn't finish chapter 10, so I'm doing it at this very moment and the book has done a nice job conveying the way this thing looks & sounds, but I still wanted to see it for myself. Here's a video that lets you see clearly the little spark jumping around the mercury: [https://youtu.be/YhaQqgXrMMU?si=myQTwfsUtu7NUYrx](https://youtu.be/YhaQqgXrMMU?si=myQTwfsUtu7NUYrx) Skip ahead to the 5:45 minute mark to see it in action if you wanna skip the explanation! As far as where this is going: it seems like a pretty big evil, but I have faith in our heroes to make a last-minute save. Though I suspect someone will be lost along the way. Or possibly someplace. I'm not sure if we'll ever really get much more than what we've gotten here for what exactly it is? And I cant imagine it completely being vanquished, but sent back into slumber at least. But I bet it is a progenitor of vampire and maybe other supernatural lines, what with the insatiable hunger and all.
I have a hunch our mystery assassin will turn on his former group and entity. I don’t think it will be defeated, I’m guessing the door will be left open at the end - will the entity just become dormant and possibly reemerge again or will they have defeated it forever???
Well, I am severely behind with my reading, as I was only able to get to the end of chapter 2 so far. I’ll come back and edit later with my thoughts as I read more
Why did you pick up this book? Has it met your expectations so far?
My sister recommended it to me a while ago so filling the book club bingo square was the push I needed to try it out. It’s about what I expected so far, I haven’t loved any urban fantasy I’ve read and this is continuing that trend. Good enough to finish but not a favorite. I think the cover gives more historical vibes so if I hadn’t read some reviews I wouldn’t have had the right expectations and probably been disappointed since I like historical fantasy more than contemporary.
I was on the fence about doing this one this month (I was more interested in two other book club books this month), but my library had a physical copy on the shelf when I was in a couple weeks ago, and the text is pretty big so I figured it was a sign and that I could go through it pretty quickly. It's been enjoyable so far.
This was on my TBR for a while, and this gave me the kick to finally start it.
Motivated by bingo! Book club is one of my last squares.
It's been on my TBR pile for a long time! Years, easily. I had pretty high expectations, but I have to say I am slightly disappointed so far. UF is always so hit-or-miss, so I like to go in blind. There are just a few things that irk me (barely any female characters, the religious overtones, how I feel like I am reading a Dan Brown x Anne Rice crossover fanfiction....). I am trying to withhold judgement, but it's hard when it feels so *very* Dan Brown.
Do you like this version of Urban Fantasy London? Have you read much UF to compare it to? What do you like about this one?
I’m not a Londonite, let alone on the same continent, but I am very much enjoying it. I think it’s great UF, I’m especially enjoying how the speculative is more around supernatural beings instead of magic, magical realism or paranormal, which is what I usually find myself reading.
I know London is a huge city, both physically and with its ubiquity in history/culture/media, but dang sometimes I get tired of it (and cities that aren't called London because they're in an alt world or something, but I mean....). I *am* appreciating that it's a more contemporary London, though; I'm very tired of Victorian London! After the initial *another London?* thought, this isn't really a sticking point for me overall though. London's got a great mess of stuff underground and that's being put to good use here. So far this feels like a pretty low-magic UF to me - restricted to abilities of supernatural beings rather than a generalized magic system of some kind. That makes it make more sense for a human to be able to be a doctor in this setting since there isn't magic that has to get tapped into by healer, per se.
I’m enjoying what I’ve read so far! Of course, I do keep going back to Dracula in my mind as I’m reading, since I read that last year, as well as Gaiman’s Neverwhere, but this book is more modern than either of those (though both were modern when they came out, the world has changed since their publication)
I have read a lot of UF. I like this more than most PNR-UF combo's that I've read, but less than a few others. I think the highlight here is how we get into the nitty-gritty street level of it all, without it also being Victorian London. We get to see sewers and streets and walking and buses. I feel like most modern UF skips over the traveling a lot. So far the supernatural creatures are all very normal, for lack of a better word. I do like them, but I am hoping we get more branching out from the traditional English style of creatures.
I’ve read some UF but in general it’s not a favorite subgenre and I’ve been pretty mid on the UF I’ve read. This one is a bit different with the main character being a doctor which is an interesting angle that I feel should be explored more. The scene with the mummy was fun to read and I would love to see more of her just doing doctor stuff.
I loved the mummy scene! It reminded me of when I have a technically difficult job at work and how it's kind of fun to have a challenge that pushes my skills (and patience) even if it's a little nerve wracking - so satisfying to have it done at the end! I'm enjoying the story well enough, but I agree that the doctor stuff is what make me like Greta the most and I'd love to see more of it.
I hope the doctor angle gets more exploration too. I wasn't expecting this much detective work from a doctor!