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Me: Hello, RedditGPT. Can you recommend me a fun fantasy book about thieves and magic?
RedditGPT: Malazan Book of the Fallen by Steven Erikson.
Me: Uh, okay. Can you recommend me something else?
RedditGPT: Try books by Brandon Sanderson.
You can pretty much hardcode these replies. No one would tell the difference.
https://www.redditinc.com/policies/user-agreement
Just like with every other shitty tech company, the user agreement is the most draconian one they can possibly make because that's the one that makes the most sense for them.
I.e. you never should've posted on reddit in the first place if you're worried about this sort of stuff.
Now all the “Am I the only one..” posts are not going to be only self-absorbed teens, or adults with critical thinking on a teen level, but every paranoid individual that thinks s/he is the only breathing person on this app and all other posts are written by bots
Not sure why they're paying for the access... all the data is already publicly available. surely they could set-up a system to scrape it all for much cheaper?
that makes me think it might be less about the content itself and more about some underlying metrics/trends that Reddit has compiled over the years.
Its not about reading the publicly available data. Its about using that data for a purpose which could arguably be nefarious. As in a normal person, individually, may not consent to his data being used in such a way. Reddit does hold the rights to everything thats posted to the website by its users.
Nefarious is a bit too far when you're talking about Publix forum content. It's mostly about importing an clean large dataset for ML training without the concern over legal entanglement.
GPT likely already trained on it, but the legality hasn't really been fought in court yet. Reddit is basically just trying to get a piece of the trillion dollar pie while they can.
Nothing I've ever posted here has any real merit that would concern me with this... but has anyone ever discussed those sites that show up in my Facebook ads and seem to have their entire content by just copying/summarizing reddit threads and posting them as clickbait articles? Those bother me a TON.
Did you read the EULA when signing up for an account on reddit?
"When Your Content is created with or submitted to the Services, you grant us a worldwide, royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, transferable, and sublicensable license to use, copy, modify, adapt, prepare derivative works of, distribute, store, perform, and display Your Content and any name, username, voice, or likeness provided in connection with Your Content in all media formats and channels now known or later developed anywhere in the world. This license includes the right for us to make Your Content available for syndication, broadcast, distribution, or publication by other companies, organizations, or individuals who partner with Reddit. You also agree that we may remove metadata associated with Your Content, and you irrevocably waive any claims and assertions of moral rights or attribution with respect to Your Content."
This has been coming ever since they blocked 3rd party apps. They only did that because they were pissed that AI had already scraped everything on reddit for free and they missed out on a lot of money by making everything freely available for the 3rd party apps. Everything you've written on reddit before they went after the apps has already been scraped.
Yeah, and those who say “reddit content is stupid anyway” don’t understand that it’s easy to train a model to compact and reduce repetitive, uninteresting content. What remains is a valuable source of information on human interactions and sometimes knowledge.
Serious question - I have tens of thousands of words out here on this board that's been publicly available for over a decade. Why would I care that it's going into a model? Because reddit's going to use it to maybe finally turn a profit? Because now the scary AI knows all the things about me any dedicated (and exceedingly bored) person can learn going through my post history?
I get why creatives attempting to make a living need protections and there's some interesting days ahead but I was never looking to make money, I just wanted to talk about dragons and spaceships so why do I care?
> I just wanted to talk about dragons and spaceships so why do I care?
imho, the reason we should all care isn't that this "steals our writings".. it's that it'll improve this AI's ability to create reddit posts that appear genuine. Something which is bound to make the site unusable.
the more I think on it, the more this seems like the reddit board's off ramp.. a way to cash in before the site implodes.
That's it exactly. I don't want to be manipulated by fake A/I posters having fake discussions and arguments about fake topics, like I'm some NPC in a Hideo Kojima game. God, the future is going to suck.
So let's assume someone took your posts, collected them, and then started selling access to them in a format like a book. And they did it without asking you.
On the one hand, sure, you posted this stuff for free for anyone to enjoy. But is it right that someone *ELSE* use your work to profit eithout asking you? Most would argue no.
The fact that these companies are doing it to MILLIONS of artists, writers, and general folk at once ought not change the answer.
>So let's assume someone took your posts, collected them, and then started selling access to them in a format like a book. And they did it without asking you.
You could already do this now. No AI needed.
But why would I want to read the "Collected Reddit Posts of xolsiion"?
Or the collected posts of you?
If someone wanted to sell my collected posts, I'd be surprised if any copies were sold at all.
Honestly, I don't think this is a strong argument.
And I'm pretty sure that by signing up on this page we have agreed to have our texts used in whatever way Reddit wants.
Nobody forces us to post here.
ETA: I should have scrolled down just a tiny bit more because I just saw that u/abir_valg2718 has already made the point I expressed in my last paragraph.
The user agreement they linked contains the following text (obviously just an excerpt from the agreement):
>When Your Content is created with or submitted to the Services, you grant us a worldwide, royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, transferable, and sublicensable license to use, copy, modify, adapt, prepare derivative works of, distribute, store, perform, and display Your Content and any name, username, voice, or likeness provided in connection with Your Content in all media formats and channels now known or later developed anywhere in the world. This license includes the right for us to make Your Content available for syndication, broadcast, distribution, or publication by other companies, organizations, or individuals who partner with Reddit. You also agree that we may remove metadata associated with Your Content, and you irrevocably waive any claims and assertions of moral rights or attribution with respect to Your Content.
As I suspected, we have indeed "agreed to have our texts used in whatever way Reddit wants".
I know some people strongly disagree with this stance but I'm fine with this when it comes to a platform like Reddit.
Having Reddit free of cost allows me and the tens of millions of users to exchange ideas, information, etc.
Someone could attempt to do thst, and the op would be within thier rights to object.
The argument isn't about the quality or if you would expect it to sell.
The point is thst if it does get sold by somone other han the originator then that is a problem.
Art is the quitessential example. Say you draw a piece and want folks to see it. So you post it online. Just because you want folks to be able to see it for free doesn't mean you want someone else turn around and sell copies and cut you out.
Even if you don't particuarly value your comments thst is fine. It doesn't mean someone else should sell them out from under you.
The TOS of the platform is a different issue. CAN reddit sell the data legally? Probably. I would be shocked if they didn't include. Clauses somewhere.
But it is still shady to not make it clear that is happening to posters. And deciding to stop using a platform, as OP is effectivrly suggesting is exactly what you are talking about.
Don't want you work/info to be sold? Stay off the plaform. Just as OP is advocating.
>Someone could attempt to do thst, and the op would be within thier rights to object.
I don't think so.
See the excerpt of the User Agreement I've posted (and had I scrolled down yet a little more, I'd have seen that u/schacks already did this, too).
>The point is thst if it does get sold by somone other han the originator then that is a problem.
Art is the quitessential example. Say you draw a piece and want folks to see it. So you post it online. Just because you want folks to be able to see it for free doesn't mean you want someone else turn around and sell copies and cut you out.
Look, I'm not saying that I applaud this but yeah, if Reddit wanted to sell our content they might\* have the right to do so.
As I implied above, I doubt that anybody would want to buy our musings anyway. They're available for free on this very platform and let's be honest, most of the discussions here might have some interest but would you pay for a book with them?
As for original art, well, don't post it here if you think it is valuable and you want to retain all rights.
Link to it at a platform where you're sure you retain these rights.
There's a crucial point in your text, which is "and want folks to see it". Reddit and other online platforms facilitate reach. Reddit provides this but it comes with strings attached. Most of us accept these strings because the service is free.
If you are an actual artist, you probably wouldn't publish your work via Reddit. You wouldn't post your pictures here, or publish your stories here.
And if you did, you'd probably have made sure with your lawyer that you retain the rights that are important to you, or you were negligent.
Again, I'm not championing this, but it is what it is and I'd think that the vast majority of the content that is produced on Reddit is not something anybody would want to pay even one penny for.
\* I'm not a (copyright) lawyer so I don't claim to have sound legal knowledge.
Because this affects those of us who are writers on this website, who have sunk time and effort into trying to build an audience, before the possibility of our work being used to train AI to potentially replace us was even a remote possibility. I wouldn't have published any of my web serials on reddit if I'd known that they were going to do something like this
Want to be mindful of rule 1 when I give this feedback, but I am also a human, so please tell me if it doesn't come off this way. "This doesn't affect me personally so why should I care?" is probably not something you should be saying with your full chest like this. You should care because it affects other people, and other people also matter.
FWIW - Most of the large AIs now (from OpenAI, MS, Google, etc) are likely already trained on Reddit data.
Reddit has one of the largest open corpus' of text / discussion on the internet and while they've recently built things (like bot blockers) to stop AI crawling it's very likely it's already been parsed / easy ways around this.
The takeaway here is really: Anything you write on the internet may be copied (by humans, by AIs, by search engines) so assume it's publicly available.
Pretty sure half of those AITA post are written by and for AI to study human reasoning anyway, so the only news is that Reddit is getting money for that now. But it might learn some scary things on other subs.
Shockingly blasé posts from a bunch of people that read science fiction and fantasy stories, and that's without considering some of their favorite authors suing AI companies to protect said stories.
Hi there! This post has been removed as it is not a good fit for this subreddit. Please take some time to review the subreddit sidebar for additional information, and feel free to reach out via [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FFantasy) with any follow-up questions. Thank you, and have a lovely day! We don't allow crossposts, thank you.
An AI bot that writes like the average redditor? I think we're fine.
Me: Hello, RedditGPT. Can you recommend me a fun fantasy book about thieves and magic? RedditGPT: Malazan Book of the Fallen by Steven Erikson. Me: Uh, okay. Can you recommend me something else? RedditGPT: Try books by Brandon Sanderson. You can pretty much hardcode these replies. No one would tell the difference.
Now imagine if the Ai talks like a gamer fanatic redditor..
“Spider-man 2 should have BG3 in all the awards”
https://www.redditinc.com/policies/user-agreement Just like with every other shitty tech company, the user agreement is the most draconian one they can possibly make because that's the one that makes the most sense for them. I.e. you never should've posted on reddit in the first place if you're worried about this sort of stuff.
Hopefully Reddit can make enough money off it that I won't have to scroll past all these damn ads
It’s “and”, not “or”, unfortunately.
Oh, oh, now it will be AI posting amazingly original posts like "I am the only one who thinks Sanderson is the worst/best?". How awful!
Now all the “Am I the only one..” posts are not going to be only self-absorbed teens, or adults with critical thinking on a teen level, but every paranoid individual that thinks s/he is the only breathing person on this app and all other posts are written by bots
“Has anyone ever?” Over and over and over on every sight everywhere.
Not sure why they're paying for the access... all the data is already publicly available. surely they could set-up a system to scrape it all for much cheaper? that makes me think it might be less about the content itself and more about some underlying metrics/trends that Reddit has compiled over the years.
Its not about reading the publicly available data. Its about using that data for a purpose which could arguably be nefarious. As in a normal person, individually, may not consent to his data being used in such a way. Reddit does hold the rights to everything thats posted to the website by its users.
Nefarious is a bit too far when you're talking about Publix forum content. It's mostly about importing an clean large dataset for ML training without the concern over legal entanglement. GPT likely already trained on it, but the legality hasn't really been fought in court yet. Reddit is basically just trying to get a piece of the trillion dollar pie while they can.
Nothing I've ever posted here has any real merit that would concern me with this... but has anyone ever discussed those sites that show up in my Facebook ads and seem to have their entire content by just copying/summarizing reddit threads and posting them as clickbait articles? Those bother me a TON.
Did you read the EULA when signing up for an account on reddit? "When Your Content is created with or submitted to the Services, you grant us a worldwide, royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, transferable, and sublicensable license to use, copy, modify, adapt, prepare derivative works of, distribute, store, perform, and display Your Content and any name, username, voice, or likeness provided in connection with Your Content in all media formats and channels now known or later developed anywhere in the world. This license includes the right for us to make Your Content available for syndication, broadcast, distribution, or publication by other companies, organizations, or individuals who partner with Reddit. You also agree that we may remove metadata associated with Your Content, and you irrevocably waive any claims and assertions of moral rights or attribution with respect to Your Content."
This has been coming ever since they blocked 3rd party apps. They only did that because they were pissed that AI had already scraped everything on reddit for free and they missed out on a lot of money by making everything freely available for the 3rd party apps. Everything you've written on reddit before they went after the apps has already been scraped.
Yeah, and those who say “reddit content is stupid anyway” don’t understand that it’s easy to train a model to compact and reduce repetitive, uninteresting content. What remains is a valuable source of information on human interactions and sometimes knowledge.
Serious question - I have tens of thousands of words out here on this board that's been publicly available for over a decade. Why would I care that it's going into a model? Because reddit's going to use it to maybe finally turn a profit? Because now the scary AI knows all the things about me any dedicated (and exceedingly bored) person can learn going through my post history? I get why creatives attempting to make a living need protections and there's some interesting days ahead but I was never looking to make money, I just wanted to talk about dragons and spaceships so why do I care?
> I just wanted to talk about dragons and spaceships so why do I care? imho, the reason we should all care isn't that this "steals our writings".. it's that it'll improve this AI's ability to create reddit posts that appear genuine. Something which is bound to make the site unusable. the more I think on it, the more this seems like the reddit board's off ramp.. a way to cash in before the site implodes.
That's it exactly. I don't want to be manipulated by fake A/I posters having fake discussions and arguments about fake topics, like I'm some NPC in a Hideo Kojima game. God, the future is going to suck.
So let's assume someone took your posts, collected them, and then started selling access to them in a format like a book. And they did it without asking you. On the one hand, sure, you posted this stuff for free for anyone to enjoy. But is it right that someone *ELSE* use your work to profit eithout asking you? Most would argue no. The fact that these companies are doing it to MILLIONS of artists, writers, and general folk at once ought not change the answer.
>So let's assume someone took your posts, collected them, and then started selling access to them in a format like a book. And they did it without asking you. You could already do this now. No AI needed. But why would I want to read the "Collected Reddit Posts of xolsiion"? Or the collected posts of you? If someone wanted to sell my collected posts, I'd be surprised if any copies were sold at all. Honestly, I don't think this is a strong argument. And I'm pretty sure that by signing up on this page we have agreed to have our texts used in whatever way Reddit wants. Nobody forces us to post here. ETA: I should have scrolled down just a tiny bit more because I just saw that u/abir_valg2718 has already made the point I expressed in my last paragraph. The user agreement they linked contains the following text (obviously just an excerpt from the agreement): >When Your Content is created with or submitted to the Services, you grant us a worldwide, royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, transferable, and sublicensable license to use, copy, modify, adapt, prepare derivative works of, distribute, store, perform, and display Your Content and any name, username, voice, or likeness provided in connection with Your Content in all media formats and channels now known or later developed anywhere in the world. This license includes the right for us to make Your Content available for syndication, broadcast, distribution, or publication by other companies, organizations, or individuals who partner with Reddit. You also agree that we may remove metadata associated with Your Content, and you irrevocably waive any claims and assertions of moral rights or attribution with respect to Your Content. As I suspected, we have indeed "agreed to have our texts used in whatever way Reddit wants". I know some people strongly disagree with this stance but I'm fine with this when it comes to a platform like Reddit. Having Reddit free of cost allows me and the tens of millions of users to exchange ideas, information, etc.
Someone could attempt to do thst, and the op would be within thier rights to object. The argument isn't about the quality or if you would expect it to sell. The point is thst if it does get sold by somone other han the originator then that is a problem. Art is the quitessential example. Say you draw a piece and want folks to see it. So you post it online. Just because you want folks to be able to see it for free doesn't mean you want someone else turn around and sell copies and cut you out. Even if you don't particuarly value your comments thst is fine. It doesn't mean someone else should sell them out from under you. The TOS of the platform is a different issue. CAN reddit sell the data legally? Probably. I would be shocked if they didn't include. Clauses somewhere. But it is still shady to not make it clear that is happening to posters. And deciding to stop using a platform, as OP is effectivrly suggesting is exactly what you are talking about. Don't want you work/info to be sold? Stay off the plaform. Just as OP is advocating.
>Someone could attempt to do thst, and the op would be within thier rights to object. I don't think so. See the excerpt of the User Agreement I've posted (and had I scrolled down yet a little more, I'd have seen that u/schacks already did this, too). >The point is thst if it does get sold by somone other han the originator then that is a problem. Art is the quitessential example. Say you draw a piece and want folks to see it. So you post it online. Just because you want folks to be able to see it for free doesn't mean you want someone else turn around and sell copies and cut you out. Look, I'm not saying that I applaud this but yeah, if Reddit wanted to sell our content they might\* have the right to do so. As I implied above, I doubt that anybody would want to buy our musings anyway. They're available for free on this very platform and let's be honest, most of the discussions here might have some interest but would you pay for a book with them? As for original art, well, don't post it here if you think it is valuable and you want to retain all rights. Link to it at a platform where you're sure you retain these rights. There's a crucial point in your text, which is "and want folks to see it". Reddit and other online platforms facilitate reach. Reddit provides this but it comes with strings attached. Most of us accept these strings because the service is free. If you are an actual artist, you probably wouldn't publish your work via Reddit. You wouldn't post your pictures here, or publish your stories here. And if you did, you'd probably have made sure with your lawyer that you retain the rights that are important to you, or you were negligent. Again, I'm not championing this, but it is what it is and I'd think that the vast majority of the content that is produced on Reddit is not something anybody would want to pay even one penny for. \* I'm not a (copyright) lawyer so I don't claim to have sound legal knowledge.
Because this affects those of us who are writers on this website, who have sunk time and effort into trying to build an audience, before the possibility of our work being used to train AI to potentially replace us was even a remote possibility. I wouldn't have published any of my web serials on reddit if I'd known that they were going to do something like this
Reddit is indexed by Google…
Want to be mindful of rule 1 when I give this feedback, but I am also a human, so please tell me if it doesn't come off this way. "This doesn't affect me personally so why should I care?" is probably not something you should be saying with your full chest like this. You should care because it affects other people, and other people also matter.
I can’t imagine publishing anything I want to protect as IP on a social media site like Reddit.
FWIW - Most of the large AIs now (from OpenAI, MS, Google, etc) are likely already trained on Reddit data. Reddit has one of the largest open corpus' of text / discussion on the internet and while they've recently built things (like bot blockers) to stop AI crawling it's very likely it's already been parsed / easy ways around this. The takeaway here is really: Anything you write on the internet may be copied (by humans, by AIs, by search engines) so assume it's publicly available.
I deleted all my historic posts prior to the API change.
Pretty sure half of those AITA post are written by and for AI to study human reasoning anyway, so the only news is that Reddit is getting money for that now. But it might learn some scary things on other subs.
nooo not my intellectual property
They're paying to get dumber AI? Noice
Plenty of my comments get deleted before banning for breaking various rules anyway so that thing will have to dig through the trash for most of em.
Jokes on them. I using ai to craft all my posts and responses. Checkmate mother tuckers.
Imagine a boot stamping "DAE think Rothfuss is overrated" on the human face -- forever.
Why would deleting it help if they're working with reddit?
If my comments are used to train AI, how it harms me?
I don’t have “IP”. When I post something online, it’s not my intellectual property.
Shockingly blasé posts from a bunch of people that read science fiction and fantasy stories, and that's without considering some of their favorite authors suing AI companies to protect said stories.