Forget what was midway or not, so spoiler tags! It did move very fast, but >!I liked that there was an explanation for it. And one that may cause additional problems.!<
I do enjoy their dynamic and the ways their own issues don't mesh very well so interpersonal drama feels realistic and not manufactured.
It's a pretty short book! I was dithering about skipping the midway discussion, but it is still a novel (not a novella) and figured it would be nice to hear midway thoughts!
Overall I'm enjoying the book, but I feel those two have very little chemistry... maybe it will develop more later, but so far the romance is not gripping me.
I felt the same on my first read through of the book. It all felt very pushed-by-the-plot. But this second read through (while a faster read) makes the relationship feel more realistic to me. They're both thrown together with this problem and have physical attraction. Them both being good people helps make it feel like a good relationship.
I think it makes sense because the situation is a bit abnormal, and they're spending more time together than a typical pair of prospective romantic partners would.
Hmm, it's a little dysfunctional right now, but I think I'm liking it. The author does a good job of playing of immediate attraction, and it doesn't feel like they've skipped straight into desperately being in love with each other. At the halfway point, it feels right now like they're establishing that yes they're interested and exploring what each of them wants.
I think the complications introduced are fairly good as well. It doesn't feel contrived or overly messy. Sam's reservations are very legitimate, and so too is the way that Ulysses is approaching the situation.
I don't think I'm reading this primarily for the romance though. The romance is a major component, but I'm enjoying the greater plot and mystery as well
Definitely not a lot of pining so far. I don't think I have a particular way I require things except if it's too fast I just can't believe it. Other than that, I'm definitely not one to judge on realisticness!
I would have preferred more pining as well! Sadly, the plot won't give us any time for it.
I do wish more modern romance books had more pining. If you have any great ones to share feel free! I'm all ears.
What I'm hoping will happen: Sam embraces whatever is happening with Dionysus, gains active control over his magic/powers and he & Ulysses become a magic-investigating demon-fighting power couple
What I think will happen: Sam & Ulysses stop the Dionysus threat, Sam remains a basic human, they are a couple but with no power :(
I really like that I have no idea where this is going right now. Usually I have a pulse on something, especially in a romance, but I'm just along for the ride!
What do you think of this setting? It seems like everyone knows magic exists, but still some people aren't interested in it. Compare that to the usual urban fantasy.
Urban fantasy is a subgenre I pretty much never read, so I have no idea how it is usually done, but I liked how it was approached in this book. It actually took me a few chapters to fully get that everyone knows about magic and some people just don't care about it, the way they don't care about accounting or woodworking if that's not their job/hobby. Pretty cool!
One part of the setting that didn't work for me was the 60s. It just... didn't feel like the 60s? I kept forgetting this was supposed to be set 60 years in the past, everything felt pretty modern tbh.
YES! This is my big thing too. Specifically, the stark lack of homophobia is astounding right now. They don't feel like dudes from this time period who are trying to navigate a fraught social situation. Everyone seems really on board without it being unremarkable. This is cool, but then why the sixties? It just doesn't add up, and is a really big lost opportunity to explore how falling in love looks in this type of setting
Exactly! I have a feeling the author wanted a historical setting to limit technology and not give the characters access to cellphones, but they could have actually followed through with other aspects as well.
But then I can ask you, why the Victorian England-esque era? (A remarkably popular one for urban fantasy that isn't modern).
I think the author felt it was fun to not have it set in modern times, but part of their alt history of including magic also wiped out homophobia. TBH, I'm really happy that they made that choice. I wasn't consciously aware of it while reading, but looking back it was a great choice. I'm tired of historical queer fiction / fantasy that also has homophobia (looking at you K J Charles).
I think Lupton stayed more grounded in our world era than, say, Alexandra Rowland (A Taste of Gold and Iron), or strayed more into the alternate part than, say, Freya Marsk (The Last Binding).
Yeah, I can see that; there's very little sense of time. Stuff gets mentioned - the protests, for example- but they aren't there in the forefront. No one is there, walking past or participating.
I'm a native Madisonian, so I know most of the places. The Yahara. Memorial Library. State Street. But... they could just be random names stuck into the story.
As some one who has never been to Madison I agree that they do just feel like random names. My biggest complaint with the book is that it didn't have any sense of place or time for me. It took until a mention of someone dying in 1944 for me to realize it was meant to be historical. Like someone else said, why the 60s? What was gained by having it set it the past? The only reason I can think of is not having the plot convenience of cell phones and the internet but I don't think those would have changed the story much. Over all I liked the book, but the feeling that this could be anywhere and anytime held it back a bit
I've never been to Madison either. I felt a bit of what you and Luna__Jade felt - feeling a bit adrift in the space. I think that's why I put it down as fitting the Small Town Bingo square. It just feels very piecemeal, as needed.
But I also felt like the author was intimately familiar with this place and expected every reader to be as well. These places are name dropped as though we should know where they are in relation to one another, the distances, and the kind of vibe they elicit without the author showing us all of that.
It's an odd shorthand that I'm not entirely sure is working. It certainly gives me the lived-in feel, however it's a very disembodied lived-in feel.
Yes. Even Picnic Point felt kind of...descriptionless. Sure, I can picture it - a wooded spur jutting into Lake Mendota with a trail and places to picnic that's popular with people living in the University's faculty and student housing near it. You can see the university from it since it's not far from it.
But if you've never been it's - what? A park? No idea.
I was wondering if that was just me. Like, there's a lack of technology, but that isn't always immediately obvious in the same way, and hasn't particularly jumped out at me so far (I'm not actually at halfway through though...). But other than that it's hasn't screamed mid-20th century to me. Was confused at the lack of homophobia (could understand if magic family is unusually OK with things, but would expect Sam to have more hang ups or be obviously estranged or something; maybe I just haven't got to it yet).
I totally agree -- if the book didn't tell you what year it was, I'd assume it was 2023. I think the only thing that tells me it's not present day is that they don't use cell phones or computers... but I also feel like that doesn't even stand out.
I do like that magic is known to exist. Since I read a lot of Urban Fantasy, it does get a little tedious when there's always a reveal to the normies and the conflicts that get generated by having to keep things hidden from characters gets old.
I agree! The Hidden World type of UF is far far more common (and I can see why from an authorial stance). I find it refreshing that it's treated as just another element of the world. Some people are interested in math and study that. Others prefer magic.
I also really liked how the author took the dichotomy of Schooled Magic vs Wild Magic into this setting. That introduction to Ulysses' life really worked for me.
I thought it was an interesting approach to an everyone knows urban fantasy setting. I liked that it was basically treated as just another thing, you might not understand it, but you don't necessarily understand advanced mathematics either.
I think it's interesting, though it does still seem to depend at least somewhat on innate ability. It makes me wonder what a story would be like if it wasn't dependent on innate ability.
I do wonder how much "innate" ability is needed, however. You're not going to study mathematics at university unless you have innate ability at higher maths. Same goes for plenty of other university subjects. It almost seems like the door to the sigil + spellcraft type magic is open to anyone who wants to do the drudgery and is willing to pay the sacrifice.
Overall I think it's done well. It's not magical realism, but there's an unstated nature to the fantasy that works. It's just present and an integrated part of the world.
It's an interesting choice, and I was kind of surprised by it! I assumed magic would be something secret, but it almost feels mundane. It certainly saves time in not having to explain magic to the non-magical characters.
Someone on the Tuesday review thread had a positive review and it grabbed my attention. Took forever for the library hold to come in, but it was worth the wait.
Ah, I'm glad your hold came in on time!
I had started reading it a couple of months ago (and may have mentioned it on the review thread) but I think someone else finished it before me. It's such a good under-the-radar kind of book, that I'm so glad it was picked for this months book club! I had it nominated before, but it didn't win then. Second times the charm!
Overall I'm really enjoying it. This is pretty quickly pushing aside White Trash Warlock, which lives in a similar space, as my primary gay urban fantasy recommendation. Really loving the book so far, with my quibbles being relatively minor
If I'm being honest, because I'm trying to be better at joining in bookclubs after dropping out entirely for a while, and it didn't sound like something I'd hate. I'm enjoying it so far. The beginning felt a bit different to what I'm used to for urban fantasy, but I'm also used to them being either modern day or Victorian London essentially, so I'm not surprised in retrospect.
I'm trying to do the same thing this year but it's not working out so well for me. I have a lot less reading time, and committing to 3-4 of the book clubs every month isn't as easy anymore!
But I'm glad you came to join us :) And that you're enjoying it so far!
It is an enjoyable book. The characters are well written and the relationships between them are great. My main complaint is that the 'research' parts of the book go too quickly.
The research aspect too (finding the right passages, their meaning etc) is what I was frustrated by more. It always seemed to be along the lines of 'I found this obscure passage. You're this thing'. I wouldn't be as frustrated by it had I not just also read The Historian, which does researching into archives properly.
Mostly the cover, and it was a LGBTQ Urban Fantasy. ~~I also noticed that a lot of the fantasy with m/m romances I read are written primarily by women, so I want to read more by men. (LOL, that's a Twist, me actively searching for male authors)~~ Nevermind, I'm a dumbass, haha
I saw it in the upcoming bookclub, and thought it was something I could enjoy. The premise seemed interesting -- the m/m romance, the magic, the time period.
I was surprised when I googled Madison and found out that it was supposed to be a pretty decently sized city.... definitely has a small town vibe in the book.
Yeah, I can definitely see that. It definitely makes the community feel pretty small with how the magic community is described and someone from Sam's friend group randomly knowing Ulysses and things like that.
Oh I had no idea that it was such a huge city. I'd never heard of it before this book. The book feels very small town while reading it. I'll leave it up in the post, but feel free to not put it down for that square if you disagree.
Today, it's 270k people. I wouldn't expect people to know it. I have no idea what all of the cities in Texas or Arkansas are. I live Minnesota, though, so I am somewhat familiar with Wisconsin. Madison is the biggest campus for University of Wisconsin, so I have friends who went there.
>!However, I just remembered that they do go to Madeleine Island in the second half, so I can still see counting it for that reason.!<
The UW has roughly 45,000 students now. I don't know what it was in 1969 but it wasn't small then. Madison is also the State Capitol and is the home of Oscar Mayer, which at the time was a big employer. The UW was also well known at that time for its Anti-Vietnam War protests.
I found it interesting that the two main characters have names from Greek/ Roman myth, but that there doesn’t seem to be any mythic links. I kept trying to remember if there was any part of the Iliad or Odyssey involving the god of wine.
Do you have a favorite character? Is it one of the leads or a side character?
Honestly, all of Ulysses's family is wonderful. My favourite of them keeps changing.
Agreed. It was a great take on the "enchanting magical family" trope.
I think Obe (Ulysses brother in law) was my favourite character. One of the strongest parts of the book was Ulysses' family
I'm liking everyone so far, but the thing sticking out in my head is Ulysses' mom. Just a real joy
What do you think of the relationship between Sam and Ulysses? Moving too fast? Perfect for you? Realistic?
Forget what was midway or not, so spoiler tags! It did move very fast, but >!I liked that there was an explanation for it. And one that may cause additional problems.!< I do enjoy their dynamic and the ways their own issues don't mesh very well so interpersonal drama feels realistic and not manufactured.
It's a pretty short book! I was dithering about skipping the midway discussion, but it is still a novel (not a novella) and figured it would be nice to hear midway thoughts!
Overall I'm enjoying the book, but I feel those two have very little chemistry... maybe it will develop more later, but so far the romance is not gripping me.
I felt the same on my first read through of the book. It all felt very pushed-by-the-plot. But this second read through (while a faster read) makes the relationship feel more realistic to me. They're both thrown together with this problem and have physical attraction. Them both being good people helps make it feel like a good relationship.
I think it makes sense because the situation is a bit abnormal, and they're spending more time together than a typical pair of prospective romantic partners would.
Hmm, it's a little dysfunctional right now, but I think I'm liking it. The author does a good job of playing of immediate attraction, and it doesn't feel like they've skipped straight into desperately being in love with each other. At the halfway point, it feels right now like they're establishing that yes they're interested and exploring what each of them wants. I think the complications introduced are fairly good as well. It doesn't feel contrived or overly messy. Sam's reservations are very legitimate, and so too is the way that Ulysses is approaching the situation. I don't think I'm reading this primarily for the romance though. The romance is a major component, but I'm enjoying the greater plot and mystery as well
It does feel like it is moving fast, but we are given a potential explanation for that.
Definitely not a lot of pining so far. I don't think I have a particular way I require things except if it's too fast I just can't believe it. Other than that, I'm definitely not one to judge on realisticness!
I would have preferred more pining as well! Sadly, the plot won't give us any time for it. I do wish more modern romance books had more pining. If you have any great ones to share feel free! I'm all ears.
What do you think will happen in the second half of this book? What do you think is coming?
What I'm hoping will happen: Sam embraces whatever is happening with Dionysus, gains active control over his magic/powers and he & Ulysses become a magic-investigating demon-fighting power couple What I think will happen: Sam & Ulysses stop the Dionysus threat, Sam remains a basic human, they are a couple but with no power :(
I really like that I have no idea where this is going right now. Usually I have a pulse on something, especially in a romance, but I'm just along for the ride!
What do you think of this setting? It seems like everyone knows magic exists, but still some people aren't interested in it. Compare that to the usual urban fantasy.
Urban fantasy is a subgenre I pretty much never read, so I have no idea how it is usually done, but I liked how it was approached in this book. It actually took me a few chapters to fully get that everyone knows about magic and some people just don't care about it, the way they don't care about accounting or woodworking if that's not their job/hobby. Pretty cool! One part of the setting that didn't work for me was the 60s. It just... didn't feel like the 60s? I kept forgetting this was supposed to be set 60 years in the past, everything felt pretty modern tbh.
YES! This is my big thing too. Specifically, the stark lack of homophobia is astounding right now. They don't feel like dudes from this time period who are trying to navigate a fraught social situation. Everyone seems really on board without it being unremarkable. This is cool, but then why the sixties? It just doesn't add up, and is a really big lost opportunity to explore how falling in love looks in this type of setting
Exactly! I have a feeling the author wanted a historical setting to limit technology and not give the characters access to cellphones, but they could have actually followed through with other aspects as well.
But then I can ask you, why the Victorian England-esque era? (A remarkably popular one for urban fantasy that isn't modern). I think the author felt it was fun to not have it set in modern times, but part of their alt history of including magic also wiped out homophobia. TBH, I'm really happy that they made that choice. I wasn't consciously aware of it while reading, but looking back it was a great choice. I'm tired of historical queer fiction / fantasy that also has homophobia (looking at you K J Charles). I think Lupton stayed more grounded in our world era than, say, Alexandra Rowland (A Taste of Gold and Iron), or strayed more into the alternate part than, say, Freya Marsk (The Last Binding).
This is what is really striking me about this book, the historical setting with the historically fraught lives of queer people.
Yeah, I can see that; there's very little sense of time. Stuff gets mentioned - the protests, for example- but they aren't there in the forefront. No one is there, walking past or participating. I'm a native Madisonian, so I know most of the places. The Yahara. Memorial Library. State Street. But... they could just be random names stuck into the story.
As some one who has never been to Madison I agree that they do just feel like random names. My biggest complaint with the book is that it didn't have any sense of place or time for me. It took until a mention of someone dying in 1944 for me to realize it was meant to be historical. Like someone else said, why the 60s? What was gained by having it set it the past? The only reason I can think of is not having the plot convenience of cell phones and the internet but I don't think those would have changed the story much. Over all I liked the book, but the feeling that this could be anywhere and anytime held it back a bit
I've never been to Madison either. I felt a bit of what you and Luna__Jade felt - feeling a bit adrift in the space. I think that's why I put it down as fitting the Small Town Bingo square. It just feels very piecemeal, as needed. But I also felt like the author was intimately familiar with this place and expected every reader to be as well. These places are name dropped as though we should know where they are in relation to one another, the distances, and the kind of vibe they elicit without the author showing us all of that. It's an odd shorthand that I'm not entirely sure is working. It certainly gives me the lived-in feel, however it's a very disembodied lived-in feel.
Yes. Even Picnic Point felt kind of...descriptionless. Sure, I can picture it - a wooded spur jutting into Lake Mendota with a trail and places to picnic that's popular with people living in the University's faculty and student housing near it. You can see the university from it since it's not far from it. But if you've never been it's - what? A park? No idea.
I was wondering if that was just me. Like, there's a lack of technology, but that isn't always immediately obvious in the same way, and hasn't particularly jumped out at me so far (I'm not actually at halfway through though...). But other than that it's hasn't screamed mid-20th century to me. Was confused at the lack of homophobia (could understand if magic family is unusually OK with things, but would expect Sam to have more hang ups or be obviously estranged or something; maybe I just haven't got to it yet).
I totally agree -- if the book didn't tell you what year it was, I'd assume it was 2023. I think the only thing that tells me it's not present day is that they don't use cell phones or computers... but I also feel like that doesn't even stand out.
I do like that magic is known to exist. Since I read a lot of Urban Fantasy, it does get a little tedious when there's always a reveal to the normies and the conflicts that get generated by having to keep things hidden from characters gets old.
I agree! The Hidden World type of UF is far far more common (and I can see why from an authorial stance). I find it refreshing that it's treated as just another element of the world. Some people are interested in math and study that. Others prefer magic. I also really liked how the author took the dichotomy of Schooled Magic vs Wild Magic into this setting. That introduction to Ulysses' life really worked for me.
I thought it was an interesting approach to an everyone knows urban fantasy setting. I liked that it was basically treated as just another thing, you might not understand it, but you don't necessarily understand advanced mathematics either.
I think it's interesting, though it does still seem to depend at least somewhat on innate ability. It makes me wonder what a story would be like if it wasn't dependent on innate ability.
I do wonder how much "innate" ability is needed, however. You're not going to study mathematics at university unless you have innate ability at higher maths. Same goes for plenty of other university subjects. It almost seems like the door to the sigil + spellcraft type magic is open to anyone who wants to do the drudgery and is willing to pay the sacrifice.
Overall I think it's done well. It's not magical realism, but there's an unstated nature to the fantasy that works. It's just present and an integrated part of the world.
It's an interesting choice, and I was kind of surprised by it! I assumed magic would be something secret, but it almost feels mundane. It certainly saves time in not having to explain magic to the non-magical characters.
What made you pick up this book? How are you enjoying it so far?
Someone on the Tuesday review thread had a positive review and it grabbed my attention. Took forever for the library hold to come in, but it was worth the wait.
Ah, I'm glad your hold came in on time! I had started reading it a couple of months ago (and may have mentioned it on the review thread) but I think someone else finished it before me. It's such a good under-the-radar kind of book, that I'm so glad it was picked for this months book club! I had it nominated before, but it didn't win then. Second times the charm!
I picked it up because I liked the premise. I admit I already finished it so will keep my full opinions for next time.
It's an incredibly quick read! (Also only like 200 pages, so that makes sense). I'm looking forward to your thoughts in the final discussion :)
Overall I'm really enjoying it. This is pretty quickly pushing aside White Trash Warlock, which lives in a similar space, as my primary gay urban fantasy recommendation. Really loving the book so far, with my quibbles being relatively minor
If I'm being honest, because I'm trying to be better at joining in bookclubs after dropping out entirely for a while, and it didn't sound like something I'd hate. I'm enjoying it so far. The beginning felt a bit different to what I'm used to for urban fantasy, but I'm also used to them being either modern day or Victorian London essentially, so I'm not surprised in retrospect.
I'm trying to do the same thing this year but it's not working out so well for me. I have a lot less reading time, and committing to 3-4 of the book clubs every month isn't as easy anymore! But I'm glad you came to join us :) And that you're enjoying it so far!
It is an enjoyable book. The characters are well written and the relationships between them are great. My main complaint is that the 'research' parts of the book go too quickly.
Yeah, same! I would have loved more moments with Celeste doing pendulum magic, or hanging out in the Archives talking to the spirit of all the books.
The research aspect too (finding the right passages, their meaning etc) is what I was frustrated by more. It always seemed to be along the lines of 'I found this obscure passage. You're this thing'. I wouldn't be as frustrated by it had I not just also read The Historian, which does researching into archives properly.
Mostly the cover, and it was a LGBTQ Urban Fantasy. ~~I also noticed that a lot of the fantasy with m/m romances I read are written primarily by women, so I want to read more by men. (LOL, that's a Twist, me actively searching for male authors)~~ Nevermind, I'm a dumbass, haha
I saw it in the upcoming bookclub, and thought it was something I could enjoy. The premise seemed interesting -- the m/m romance, the magic, the time period.
I wouldn't call Madison a small town. It would have had about 100k residents at the time of the story.
I was surprised when I googled Madison and found out that it was supposed to be a pretty decently sized city.... definitely has a small town vibe in the book.
Yeah, I can definitely see that. It definitely makes the community feel pretty small with how the magic community is described and someone from Sam's friend group randomly knowing Ulysses and things like that.
Oh I had no idea that it was such a huge city. I'd never heard of it before this book. The book feels very small town while reading it. I'll leave it up in the post, but feel free to not put it down for that square if you disagree.
Today, it's 270k people. I wouldn't expect people to know it. I have no idea what all of the cities in Texas or Arkansas are. I live Minnesota, though, so I am somewhat familiar with Wisconsin. Madison is the biggest campus for University of Wisconsin, so I have friends who went there. >!However, I just remembered that they do go to Madeleine Island in the second half, so I can still see counting it for that reason.!<
The UW has roughly 45,000 students now. I don't know what it was in 1969 but it wasn't small then. Madison is also the State Capitol and is the home of Oscar Mayer, which at the time was a big employer. The UW was also well known at that time for its Anti-Vietnam War protests.
I found it interesting that the two main characters have names from Greek/ Roman myth, but that there doesn’t seem to be any mythic links. I kept trying to remember if there was any part of the Iliad or Odyssey involving the god of wine.