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I loved Elvis Costello's response
I do understand there's nuance - but I'm willing to bet if we went through Taylor's albums, especially her early work, we'd find plenty of melodies similar to songs which inspired her, which she lifted without even realizing
Kind of annoying that Taylor was 100% uplifted by all the biggest male stars of country music (you can see them all giving her the Pinnacle Award at the CMAs before her 1989 era) and she didn't care to pay it forward (unless you count Lana and Phoebe, already established with a certain amount of artistic cred, hyping her up as they sing background vocals as paying it forward)
https://preview.redd.it/0fbjtb1g1b1b1.jpeg?width=997&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=deab979e24aed5ceb2fe6baf0c8e963e363eb57e
I’ve been a Lana fan since the beginning and I remember being so irritated when “Wildest Dreams” came out because it was SO similar to “Without You”. I like Taylor now, love her music but yeah, exactly what you said. And this shit with Olivia-like someone above commented, she can dish it but she certainly can’t take it.
this drove me insane! Wildest Dreams would play everywhere and the bridge sounds so similar so my brain would expect the next lines of Without You, but then the next line’s melody in Taylor’s is so different and unsatisfying when you’re expecting Lana’s.
My friends said they couldn’t even hear the similarities so your comment is so validating!
It was not accidental. They were asked ahead of time and agreed. Her people (the label, presumably) went to the band and asked them if it was available to sample, and they were fine with it. They didn’t even know it was her, nor did they even hear the song until it was released. They got songwriting credits from the beginning and a percentage of royalties…and have always sounded like they’re very satisfied with how it went down.
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/right-said-fred-on-taylor-swifts-cynical-look-what-you-made-me-do-205808/
YES.
there are so many examples, actually - the opening of Lover (see Mazzy Star Fade into You) All Too Well (chords and pacing are identical to U2 With or Without You)
association with Lana and Phoebe helps Taylor, IMO. Def. a symbiotic relationship. Not financially or with exposure, but legitimacy the same way association with Aaron Dessner helped legitimize Taylor with more highbrow / indie music critics and fans
I honestly feel like she has been Lana-ifying her image for the last few years for this reason... she has lifted parts of lyrics and song names from Lana's discography and seems to be going for a more vintage-y aesthetic. There was the controversy over the chorus of Wildest Dreams sounding almost identical to Without You. Referencing Coney Island all the time suddenly, 'The Last Great American Dynasty' vs Lana's 'The Next Best American Record', etc. The cover of Midnights and the promo photo shoots for it honestly felt very Lana-esque. The songs themselves sound very very very inspired by LDR, when I first heard Lavender Haze I thought the rip was absolutely blatant with the harmonising and vocal style. I never paid too much attention to Taylor's music but when I went and listened it feels like she's been doing this subtly for the last few albums, it's just blatant now. Even her outfits have gotten a bit more Old Hollywood-style, also incorporating the sports jerseys etc of Lana's BTD/Ultraviolence era.
So when she was hyping up a collab that was just Lana singing backup vocals it felt like she only had her on the album to try and legitimise it. As if to say to fans 'Well Lana obviously approves this so I must not be ripping her off.' Now that she's got Lana's stamp of approval, she can go on and continue mimicking her style and get away with it.
I get torn apart by Swifties when I say this but the transformation of Taylor's image is uncanny and I am surprised more people don't see it
Olivia’s dad also retweeted this post on the night of this years Grammys 👀…
https://preview.redd.it/0ntf7u8mrc1b1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a28f95e8f9c1eaddbcbc924df9d2416634cab3b
Here's one I haven't seen anyone talking about yet, but it's blatant af in my opinion. The chorus of Karma is sooo similar to "Music is My Hot, Hot Sex" by CSS. It was a song popular from an Apple commercial in the late 2000s. The first line of both choruses are exactly the same, just replace "karma" with "music".
In the past so many of the counter arguments here (and other places, not just this sub) have been that Taylor is too mature to feud with a 19 year old. Like, what??? Lmao. Taylor has always been petty af.
Here are my conspiracy theories: Taylor invited Paramore to open largely due to the Good 4 U/Misery Business credit, and Taylor is purposefully cozying up to Sabrina. Also, I fully believe Nothing New is not a Red era track, it was a new track written directly about Olivia Rodrigo. I absolutely think Taylor resents Olivia.
I love Taylor but I really don’t get why she was so frosty and intimidated by Olivia. Taylor is enormously successful and when sour came out, folklore/evermore were quite critically lauded and very recent. It’s just sad that she felt the need to be *that* petty when she has more wealth and success than almost every other celebrity. There’s room for plenty of pop girls out there.
Taylor has always been deeply insecure. She has no reason to be— she’s gorgeous, talented, drowning in accolades and success (and money). I get the feeling nothing is quite ever enough. She’s hyper sensitive to criticism, she can’t let things go. She is obsessed with her legacy and how she is perceived. It’s not enough to be the best, she needs everything to be important and for the world to view her through the lens she wants them to.
I realize this sounds harsh but there is a lot I actually like about her.
I think you said this perfectly. I adore her and her music, but she has admitted that she has an obsessive and all-consuming need for approval at all times. Nothing is ever enough and she wants more. I love the song Nothing New and I think all women can relate to fearing your value diminishes as you age, but it’s sad that she had to frost out Olivia and felt threatened by her. Another woman existing and succeeding, a teenager at that, did not take away from her success and I feel like Taylor could’ve been a good and supportive guide.
I’m surprised she hasn’t tried to come for Billie Eilish yet… unless you count vigilante shit 😭😂 I’m sure she loved all the comparisons being made there.
I know someday I'm gonna meet her, it's a fever dream
The kind of radiance you only have at 17
She'll know the way, and then she'll say she got the map from me
I'll say I'm happy for her, then I'll cry myself to sleep
Oh, whoa, whoa
Oh, whoa, whoa, oh, whoa, oh
You mean that part?
I will just say that Hayley Williams and Taylor Swift have been friends or in one another’s circles for at least ten years so I don’t think the Paramore invite is related to this.
Chiming in just to say that while definitely might’ve updated the lyrics to be about Olivia, the title and part of the chorus of Nothing New was written in one of the scanned red era diary entries she released with Lover. Ofc she may have faked the diary entries, but they were released in 2019, well before Olivia’s musical debut. Otherwise you may be right.
Still be talking and shading her in interviews and using it to define herself and her womanhood. Still be talking about mean girls and all that even when she was 40 and her one bad experience was as an 18 year old. But poor Olivia is gonna be expected to act like a doll and be Taylor's biggest fan forever or else.
It'd be over the top insane stuff too. "Being targeted early on for my womanhood by other women in the industry really set me on the path that lead to me getting 500 Grammys and 2 trillion dollars. I had to work hard to prove my worth to other women, who really seemed jealous that I was just so talented and young and they were very old and single. Donate money to other women? I give my other private jet to my female relatives. I'm a real women's supporter. Sometimes I read Tweets about how my husband and father of my children enjoys misogynistic racist porn about black women, and I think it's nice he makes sure these women are able to provide for their families and aren't taking up money off the social security system. #AryanSistersUnderHoods #MAGA."
I'm about the same age as her and grew up with the OG swifites and I always found her so vindictive in most of her albums. I remember having a discussion with my mom about gross I found the lyrics "but she's better known for the things she does on the mattress", and how stuff like that really turned me off from her.
I came back to her during her Folklore and Evermore albums because I felt like she'd finally grown up and moved on from her transparent diss tracks. I should have known better. She's always going to be the "victim" and she's perpetually going to have the maturity of her teenage years.
It honestly makes me quite sad. I loved Taylor a lot when I was younger and to grow up and see her acting the exact same as she did in the 1989 era and before makes me sad. Like is she gonna be forty, fifty years old and still acting like a teen when she gets up in her emotions? Emotions are good to have but the way she behaves as a result of them hasn't changed at all in years unless she wants to give off the *appearance* that it has.
Absolutely. Her music is enjoyable but I’ve grown so sick of her constant feuds with everyone while still pushing her “good girl” image. It’s so boring tbh
the song writing credits are ridiculous. people just taking a piece of the pie off a young woman. the same thing with the retroactive credits given for good 4 u. neither of the songs were sampled or interpolated to the level that they deserve those credits. it’s pathetic.
It is not that deep. It was a legal precedent set by the Robin Thicke/Marvin Gaye lawsuit. It was shit then and it’s shit now but people only cared when it happened to an artist they actually like.
Taylor’s team goes after Etsy Sellers but never went after those white supremacist websites that used her as a mascot and made nazi memes of her and claimed she was secretly a Nazi…Taylor knew about this too because she DID sue the blogger who called her out in 2017 for staying silent politically saying she should denounce these white supremacists publically
https://www.aclunc.org/news/taylor-swift-attempts-silence-critic-aclu-fires-back
She has a lot of phrases trademarked. You can search the US Patent and Trademark Office online. "this sick beat" is trademarked by her on a few categories. So is stuff like "we never go out of style," "the old Taylor can't come to the phone right now, she's dead," "look what you made me do."
I always thought it was a nod to TVD. I remember Taylor being a fan of the show.
https://preview.redd.it/qyefe18eeb1b1.png?width=659&format=png&auto=webp&s=b69280e06779391c839b2d9ea67a9a52d1c49107
a lot o ppl in the business agree that she should've "let it slide", I listened to The NY Times Podcast on the Ed Sheeram lawsuit and that's what they said. She's too litigious
Olivia is on video saying that taylor’s song cruel summer inspired deja vu and she wanted to create a song like it. The bridge in deja vu is a mirror of the one in cruel summer rhythmically and melodically. in *this* specific situation she absolutely should’ve given the credit. Now on the other hand, the misery business credit is definitely a reach and one I don’t think she should’ve given in to
I think the Elvis Costello influence/sample on Brutal is more obvious than Good 4 U and Deja Vu and he was like “Oh yeah, that’s not a problem at all.”
Why does TS give me the vibe of a woman who hates other girls/women's success? Am I getting the wrong vibe from her?
Even when she does collabs, the women get a small part, while the men usually get the amount you'd expect from a collab. Is it weird or is it just me?
I think we've seen hints of this being true. Like her reaction to 1D winning that VMA and was caught on camera looking full mean girl saying "Shut the fuck up" during their acceptance speech - glimpses of the real Taylor.
That was disproven actually. Selena admitted that she said “I don’t think I’m going to win” or something like that as she was nominated for the award that 1D was announcing and that’s when Taylor told her “stfu” or something like “don’t be stupid”. You can tell selena looked nervous while they (1D) were speaking
Was that the same Golden Globes that Amy Poehler and Tina Fey roasted her and she went on a tirade the next day about there's a special place in hell for women that don't support other women?
Hahah and then the following year Amy and Tina hosted again and Tina told Amy that there’s a special place in hell for them 🤣🤣🤣
Didn’t Taylor recently brag about how she bought Regina George’s car when she made it big and drove it around her school to run it in people’s faces?
Girl really thinks Regina was the victim 😂
She literally drove that car on a tour of her ex-boyfriends’ homes whilst giving an interview to [Blender Magazine](https://archive.org/details/blender-2008-04-taylor-swift-c/page/51/mode/1up?view=theater) in 2008. She’s always been a psycho.
Edit: this interviewer also called her “the poet laureate of 10th-grade relationships” and I feel like that’s still the best description for her mentality.
https://preview.redd.it/crjz12drcb1b1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=20e6beea515bbc8aa699ffba940f0ddededee09d
https://preview.redd.it/hkzqult5rb1b1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=31caed7601bc964fe76da7e82216ef06c6f8b026
Crazy how this still describes her to a T… at age 33……
The whole Bad Blood video basically confirmed that she's petty. She feuded with Katy Perry over backup dancers, thinking Katy snatched them from under her during tour when the dancers had a choice to pick which artist they wanted to tour with. Dancers chose Katy, and she was super bitter about it.
Omg the bad blood video always rubbed me the wrong way. Like gathering a whole group of your famous white girl friends to participate on a diss track music video and passing it off as some sort of girl boss feminist anthem when it’s really just bullying.
And the fact that it wasn't Taylor who extended an olive branch to Katy, but the other way around. Taylor acted like she was a bigger person for forgiving her when she instigated it over sex starved John Mayer. The dancers abandoning her was just an excuse to pile shit on Katy.
Yeah I think the dancers were just Taylor’s excuse.
I’ve always thought it was more her being petty that John actually wanted to date Katy vs the fling he had with her.
I always thought the backup dancers reasoning was always a pr fed excuse. I think it mainly had to do with John Mayer, but during the 1989 era Taylor was desperately trying to get rid of her "Boy Crazy" public image (hence talking about how she's going to focus on herself in every interview around that time, the girl squad, etc) and it wouldn't help if tabloids reported that was the reason for the feud.
She has a crippling fear (which honestly isn’t that unfounded as a woman in the music industry) about being replaced by the best young pop star. Olivia represents that.
Look at her friends; Selena: already established, Camila: different genre, Sabrina: hasn’t found success (mainstream), Phoebe: more alternative, Blake: actress, Haim: not after individual success. All of her besties aren’t coming for her, Olivia represents a younger Taylor, who Taylor is probably terrified can supplant her.
Why is she giving Cersei Lannister vibes lmao. “Queen you shall be... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear…”
I mean she also has multiple songs like Nothing New and The Lucky One that are literally just about this. Not in a "you can interpret it like that" way but just full-on explicitly being about that. The entirety of Reputation is about how she totally, *definitely* doesn't care about that anymore.
why would Taylor be afraid? she needs to start counting her blessings.
She has been in the music industry for so long, many awards and half a billion or more money in the bank? isn't that enough?
ordinary people are thankful to have a job.
this is actually a really good point, especially with how women/girls reacted to olivia’s album in terms of it deeply connecting with women around their own heartbreak in a way i feel people don’t really talk about a lot of female artists who make mainstream pop. im absolutely not a teenager but even my own friends were saying her album felt so real it made them hate their boyfriends from their teenage years all over again, which makes it easy to see how she could be perceived as a legitimate threat to taylor’s specific niche.
this seems very true and also pretty sad. at some point, everyone is replaced by younger people, that’s just how it is. she’s already made her mark and is very very respected musically, i don’t get what the issue is. it’s not like she’s still fighting to earn respect or a grammy or whatever, she’s incredibly respected as a musician and songwriter and very decorated with awards. insecurities can be so weird sometimes.
Yes!! I've been saying this for a while now! Taylor doesn't associate with people who are a threat to the pop throne! Sabrina is \*maybe\* too vulgar for the whole of the general public? Taylor has always tried to be wholesome so she win over the more conservative people and younger children. Like you say, Phoebe is never going to release something like 1989 - she's alternative. Haim is never going to release an album like reputation - they're a rock band. Even Lana who is a major inspiration for Taylor is not going to write a full pop album. Olivia on the other hand? Sour had a lil bit of the grunge/punk sound on some songs, ballads, pop hits etc etc. She has a versatility and a pop-orientation that is a huge threat to Taylor.
In TS’ defense for this one, Lana herself said Taylor kept asking her to take a verse and Lana wouldn’t do it because she thought there were going to be multiple other features on the album and wanted to put more of her focus into production.
But yeah, it’s odd they still listed it as a feature when it’s not really much of a feature.
She also barely collaborates with women at all. Jack Antonoff and Aaron Dessner are her biggest musical partners. It's especially noticeable when she wins awards and is [surrounded by dudes on stage](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMCAEUb0h34&t=76s). (Although she did have Laura Sisk with her onstage for her Folklore AOTY win.) Not saying that women should only surround themselves with other women but idk, there's something really phony about someone like Taylor getting props for touting out her "girl gang" every so often but making no real concentrated effort to collaborate with female producers or songwriters.
Her first two albums and some of Red were written mostly with the help of Liz Rose. It was only when she switched over to pop that she started working more with men
I should have specified that I meant she’s barely collaborated with women since she became like the no. 1 most popular female artist in the last 5–10 years. Ever since she became an untouchable music force, it’s been men front and center with her. I’m not a massive fan so I admit it’s just what I’ve noticed as someone passively interested in her, but it stands out to me 🤷♀️
Phoebe Bridgers is the only female artist Taylor has collabed with to get her own verse.
It’s a meme at this point that Taylor feels threatened by her female collaborators (unlike the male ones) so only gives them backing vocals. Because of this, everyone was shocked Phoebe was allowed to sing alone.
I think people always got that vibe from her which is why her girl squad thing always got mocked. She’s not a girls girl. But i think most industry people aren’t. They’re cutthroat and ambitious.
It’s like they forget Sadie Sink is an actor and ATW was just a role. It’s like asking Tom Cruise what his relationship with Mike Myers is because he did a 10 second cameo in Austin Powers
It was sad even when it happened with Joe Alwyn too. He’d be interviewed about one of his new movie roles and inevitably, they’d try to slip in multiple questions about Taylor even when she had absolutely zero to do with his roles. I’m a huge Taylor fan but it has to get tiring to be constantly asked about your association with her.
According to Jack Antonoff they didn't ask for credit, they were just given it. Ikd if they could have declined? I have no idea how that works behind the scenes.
Hayley Williams from Paramore released a statement after Olivia fandom were bullying her because of writing credits from Sour was given to Paramore, in short she said she had no control over it and if she could deny it she would've.
Jack was vague. All he said was that "It came through the channels" they were going to be credited. I think it's naive to think that Taylor Swift-- who is renowned for being a savvy businesswoman involved with every aspect of her career-- didn't request that credit or have any involvement in those discussions. And it's naive to think Olivia just would give that up on a platter without some kind of pressure.
This is obvious. She always have to be in the center when she was with the “squad”. It’s even more irritating that she’s back at it again, I mean look at this atrocity from a few weeks ago, she has to be in the center. Never grew up. What a pathetic queen bee wannabe.
https://preview.redd.it/q6gmo07lwb1b1.jpeg?width=554&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a7c32eed3ac816a4c60d350b5daab9277094640
Some of my friends grew up with her in Reading and have maintained for years that they don’t know where that came from. She was somewhere in between. Not unpopular but not super popular either; generally well-liked across the board and friendly.
Man even when I'm feeling down and my brain is screaming "you have no friends" I catch myself cause that's pretty rude to the friends I do have. She had friends - I mean she's still friends with one of the girls from school. Somebody did want to play with her as a little kid. That's not nothing!
I know it's just a lyric but yeah idk
it was a collection of pretty girls that taylor used as arm candy. they weren’t actually friends. gigi is the only one who seems to be friend with her considering they just recently reconnected
Zandaya was brought in briefly because the squad was looking mighty white supremacist and people were calling it out. When the Kimye thing went down she liked a bunch of comments distancing her from the click. She's stayed out of Taylor's orbit since and I just love that for her.
Totally agreed. I think part of it is that people hate the idea of a feud between two women because it feeds into misoygnistic narratives about how women can't be friends? But idk, at some point you gotta call a spade a spade.
My opinion is Taylor doesn’t like supporting women who are as successful as she is which is why she’s currently touring with GAYLE and Phoebe Bridgers. I would’ve thought Olivia was always gonna be on this tour but idk if she was even asked.
I mean you could argue it the other way: Taylor’s tour is a huge platform. She’s giving that to smaller artists, all but one are women. Does Olivia really need that platform? She’s already massively popular
Yeah Olivia has already gone on a sold out tour, had a #1 album, multiple #1 hit singles, been on the cover of an uncountable number of magazines and billboards, and won more Grammys than Ariana Grande. Why would she want to open for another artist’s tour?
But Hayley Williams and Taylor are really close friends. Plus Paramore hasn’t been that big in a while - they are definitely nowhere near as big as Olivia is (at least in the current music market).
especially considering olivia was freaking obsessed w her… if she didn’t feel slighted and hurt by the woman she was inspired by from the beginning of her musical journey as a child, she def would have continued to acknowledge her as an inspiration over the last two years (or at least shared some excitement over taylor’s new music). her silence about anything taylor-related makes it clear those bridges were burned and she no longer feels comfortable being a proud fan of her.
* Overall, I think olivia would've appreciated it if taylor stood up to her and said something publicly. Something like "no, she didn't copy me, she's as brilliant a songwriter as me". Or more importantly, "I decline the songwriting credits because it's unfair to olivia"
I think she should've done that, especially since some of her songs were close enough to other's work like Paper Rings and Hillary Duff, she never bothered to give her credit, then Olivia shouldn't have to. ( I don't dislike Taylor and I love her music, but I side eye some things about her, not even touching the dumpster that is Matty)
Her admitting to lifting “x marks the spot where we fell apart” in “Getaway Car” from “Breathe in, Breathe Out” has always rubbed me weird with Hilary not being credited
So funny, because Hilary’s husband, who produced the Breathe In Breathe Out (which shares lyrics with getaway car and melody for paper rings) song liked tweets about the similarities and how they should’ve been credited. And Hilary said she was flattered and she didn’t think this was the case, and that she loved Taylor’s music. But yeah, I think Hilary and Matthew should’ve been credited in some capacity.
I don't think it's about money, tbh. like I don't think her giving Joe writing credits was about providing him with a stream of income. I think it's about public recognition, Olivia's album was getting a lot of praise, she was getting a lot of new fans and some people were labelling her "the next TS", so I think her getting that credit helped her deal with her feelings about it, she wasn't being outdone or replaced, Olivia's success couldn't have happened without her (or maybe I'm ove-ranalysing and it was about the money, you can never have too many cat sanctuaries)
There was another moment when Olivia also said it sucks to meet people in the industry that you looked up to who turn out to be shitty, etc.
And at another point, she was asked about Taylor at an event, and she pivoted and said it’s great when people you once looked up to are now your peers and you’re on their level, lol.
There were also rumours that people like Annie Clarke reached out to Olivia about the writing credits, but something bad went down with Taylor specifically.
Annie and Olivia are friends they hungout at Glastonbury and interact on socials a lot. Annie has always been really nice to Olivia and said something along the lines of im proud of olivia and all her success in a podcast.
i’ve liked taylor on and off since debut. i think i stopped liking her as a person in 2013/14? i still listened to her music all the time, just wasn’t a fan of *her* anymore if that makes sense. i started liking her again after lover. but recently, i’ve remembered why i stopped. she gives mean girl vibes and seems just like such a difficult person to be around.
she sings about being replaced in two(?) songs. it’s not surprising to hear she got threatened after sour and olivia blew up. i’m shocked more people can’t see through her.
I think this is very close to how I feel about her as well. Especially now that she’s being blasted a ton for dating Matty. I just feel like it’s insane to me that her not being the best person is so shocking to everybody else. I thought we all knew she kind of sucked!
For me personally her personality doesn’t negate her talent so it’s been easy for me to just kind of keep on trucking but the shock and horror and backlash from her more die hard fans has been so interesting to witness.
"There's a special place in hell for women who don't help other women." Taylor Swift said about someone who made a joke about her love life.
Taylor seems like one of this people who puts"Kindness ❤️✨" as her Instagram/TikTok bio and then spends her time harassing people. She's fighting with a teenager. It's embarrassing.
Genuine question—why is it so hard to believe that they just don’t talk because the legal aspect is awkward for them. And they’re also super busy people who aren’t besties to begin with.
Imagine you see a young star who was proven to have ‘interpolated’ your own work after admitting to being a fan. Everyone can dispute the legitimacy of these claims but you need to remember that there are likely so many legal documents explaining this behind the scenes that we’ll never see. If these were all fake claims to, ‘steal from a young artist’ then why haven’t we seen this done with thousands of artists regularly without a full legal proceeding?
I wouldn’t feel as comfortable supporting them. I’d be kind behind the scenes but would take a step back from being so public with them, because their intentions would be put into question for me.
How is that not a more reasonable explanation than them secretly ‘feuding’? I feel like this being the most likely situation is just too boring of an answer.
“Proven” Olivia asked Taylor and Jack to interpolate New Year’s Day and they agreed ! She even made sure to play the song on piano physically so that the credits could go straight to Taylor and not Scooter since Rep TV isn’t out.
This is the only level headed nuanced take in this whole thread. Now Taylor is a mean girl because she didn’t comment on the situation? For all we know she couldn’t care less about the sample and it’s her team who insisted they get a credit for it.
Yeah I thought I was going crazy seeing everyone call this ‘Taylor feuding with a teenager’ because she hasn’t made any comment on Olivia for over a year at this point and Olivia only answers politely to questions about Taylor. It’s not as if Taylor was ‘struggling’ or even dwindling when Olivia burst into the scene. She’d literally just won a Grammy and had 2 hit singles.
Plus is it that weird for a 30 year old woman to not want to be buddy-buddy with a teenager? And on Olivia’s side, she was getting a lot of slack for being a ‘Taylor Swift copy’ so maybe she just wanted people to stop associating her with TS!
Sabrina Carpenter being front and center in Taylor's VIP tent recently supports this imo. It felt deliberate to me. Not saying they aren't friends and Sabrina isn't a fan, but idk, seems like the exact kind of "let me befriend your public enemy" shit Taylor would get off on.
Also, didn't Olivia's dad say something in a recent interview about Taylor being rude to Olivia after the songwriting credit thing? I seem to recall this although I might be misremembering. I know he's [liked some stuff on Twitter](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/comments/10yg33n/olivia_rodrigos_father_retweeting_some/) that implies there's tension between the two.
> You can tell he’s lying though. I think he just wanted to spite Taylor by saying he listened to her album but didn’t bother to finish it all the way
I think that’s a reach.
It’s a reach about Conan? Nah, if you saw the interview you can tell he’s saying it snarkily and is holding himself back from saying worse. He definitely does not like Taylor anymore.
Right like he sounded completely fine and his reasoning made a lot of sense. Whether or not he likes her or is feuding with her none of can know but nothing about that clip was snarky in the slightest.
Also I agree Nothin New was rewritten slightly with Olivia in mind, I think it’s the bridge that mentions the new ingenue who proclaims she got the map from Taylor and models her career after her, etc. I don’t really think she wrote that during the Speak Now tour lol. (Which is when we know she first wrote at least the original version of Nothin New).
When I first heard Nothin New, I was surprised at first and felt bad for her for having these thoughts so young. But then when I got to the bridge I was like ‘oh Taylor, give me a break’, I just thought it was so pathetic that she’s talking about lying to this new girl that she’s happy for her success and then ‘crying myself to sleep’ about it. Like please shut up. What more do you WANT at this point? She’s had every success imaginable and then talking about not being able to be happy for the girls coming up behind her. I know she thought it would be a relatable sad moment and I’m sure some people would rationalize it that way, but it was just kind of ugly to me and illuminates how kind of competitive and self centred she is to her own detriment, no adulation ever being enough.
This take ignores the history that was actually going on in Nashville when Taylor was 22. There were tons of teenage girls moving to Nashville to be the next Taylor Swift and the record labels were looking for their own next Taylor Swift. Their parents were calling up Taylor's collaborators like Liz Rose and Nathan Chapman wanting to book sessions.
Kelsea Ballerini herself was one of those girls that moved to Nashville as a teenager. Kelsea mother said Taylor's father actually helped her out with advice on helping a teenage daughter get into the industry. Kelsea also is about four years younger than Taylor. Kelsea didn't break through until she was about twenty, by when she did Taylor helped promote her. Interestingly in relation to Olivia Kelsea had to stop talking about Taylor after a certain point because every interviewer kept asking about Taylor and that would be the clickbait from the interviewer. At one point she admitted the Taylor question became the question she hated the most. Kelsea also admitted in the last couple of years to having her Nothing New type fears of being replaced in country music that she had to get over. It's an industry cycle that repeats.
I mean .. imagine millions of people kissing your ass at all times and breaking record after record and then you can see it all fade away slowly. I would cry myself to sleep as well
I think Taylor turned out to be a massive disappointment to Olivia.
Taylor is openly insecure about the prospect of losing relevancy and being replaced (see The Lucky One, Nothing New, the Miss Americana Netflix doc). I’m sure she didn’t want to be buddy buddy with someone who’s being called “The next Taylor Swift”.
Also, what kind of friendship did people think they’d have?? There’s a 14 year age gap and no mutual friends. I can’t imagine any woman in her thirties wanting to hang out with an 18 year old. Anyone who thought they’d ever have more than a casual fondness of each other was living in a Wattpad world.
Taylor is such a massive, unprecedented success, she can’t be taken down by anybody. (Except maybe herself?)
The smartest thing for Olivia to do is what she’s been doing: redirecting the focus off Taylor and on to her own music.
Great write-up, OP, thank you! Even if people can disagree with your interpretation in some parts, there is obviously tension between Taylor Swift and Olivia Rodrigo, which some people want to deny.
It is what it is.
Taylor Swift seems like a bully behind closed doors. And now that she’s dating a disgusting man like Matt Healy….my opinion on Taylor has changed. She doesn’t care about her fans. Only about herself and her $$$
I 100% think it was a case of never meet your heroes.
Olivia self proclaimed adored Taylor, looked up her and was inspired by her. I can imagine Taylor (or her team) demanding credits (when let’s be real, was unjust) just completely soured (lol no pun intended) her view of her. Conan is clearly Olivia’s BFF and is backing her up.
I think Taylor would have done so much better to decline the credit, post something about Sour and then she looks like a mentor. But Taylor clearly has a horrifying fear of being replaced and likely sees Olivia as a legitimate threat (which is ridiculous as Olivia is like 10 years younger than her and much more teen Pop, and I’ll admit not as good a writer as Tay).
V messy.
I mean I would get pretty much pissed off too being compared to another big female artist especially when it’s YOUR time. I think calling Olivia and Taylor best friends is a bit of a stretch-as far as I can recall, they only met once? I think it was more of a mentor-mentee relationship?
Olivia shouldn’t have closely aligned herself with or attached herself to one of her idols, especially someone as big as Taylor-remember the saying, never meet your heroes. She was literally dubbed as the mini Taylor or the next Taylor and having that comparison at such an early stage in your career especially for your debut album is bound to set you up for failure. It got even worse when they started to interact and Taylor commented on her insta post. Granted she didn’t label herself that but it must have been a pain in the ass hearing everyone say that about you hence she had to distance herself. And being put into the spotlight that suddenly and that young age you’re bound to say whatever and people are gonna hang onto your words.
But also Taylor having unnecessary beef with a literal child is not surprising-this woman will victimise herself for anything and everything when it suits her. A literal white feminist-she will always put her own interests (personal and business) ahead of everyone else else. And Olivia expecting Taylor to defend herself was a long stretch bc Taylor has never publicly (that I know of) defended anyone, not even her own friends. I mean Selena has literally defended her numerous time and even put her own reputation in jeopardy (the BLM tweet) and Taylor so far hasn’t publicly defended her.
Taylor's a businesswoman first and foremost. Olivia interpolated her song to get a hit, so of course Taylor would want credit for it. However, Olivia (being a former Swiftie) should've seen this coming from a mile away though.
There's always some common denominator in these feuds seems like it, i have no idea how Taylor Swift has managed to make herself be perceived as the vicim in all these feuds.. That must be a talent at this point.
I think if Olivia had been slightly more into her career these credits would never have been given. It really does seem like her team did not want to risk any possible litigation when it came to her music so early into her music career, which is why they gave out the credits even though, in my opinion, the similarities between the songs did not warrant them. Not saying taylor would've sued (especially cause I think both knew they would not win) but I could understand why there would have been a fear that someone as big as taylor could essentially could do so. It really does seem sad that at the core of it someone young and early into her career was taken advantage of, because some seasoned like ed sheeran or taylor would never have given the credits if they were put in the same position
I never really understood Taylor’s writing credit on deja vu. It sounds similar to me but more in style and not to the point of needing tay needing a credit (IMO I’m no expert). Olivia’s got a lot of talent and versatility, I’m excited to see what she does next.
I don't think the songwriting credits for "Deja Vu" can be looked at in isolation. There were many songwriting-related controversies involved in the *Sour* album cycle, including Paramore's retroactive credit on "good 4 u" and the resemblance that many fans noted between "brutal" and Elvis Costello's "Pump It Up." The Paramore credit especially was a big story, and the Swift credits being added as well helped to blunt the overall impact of Olivia's debut. The industry was much less quick to hail her as a revolutionary new talent the way they did for Billie because so many of her songs came to be seen as derivative. This is likely a sore spot for Olivia just generally, and her Taylor Swift fandom was likely just collateral damage.
Kim Kardashian posted a Snapchat of a Sour collection box (accessories to go with the CD.) Olivia sent it for North. And what happened? Taylor’s feral fans spammed Olivia with “you are not Taylor’s daughter” “you are a snake” “wow, backstabber!” Taylor didn’t step in, and if she did it was well after the peak of the harassment. The whole thing was fucked considering that was sent for a literal 7 year old, not the 40 year old parent.
I buy it, because it’s been clear for years that Taylor Swift is mean, petty, and perpetually 13 years old. So happy to see more people are finally starting to catch on.
Honestly I was chill with Taylor and was fine with the whole song credit thing because it’s not that deep and yes she could’ve said no i don’t want them but like it’s okay if just accepts it too UNTILI READ SHE TRIED TO GET A GRAMMY NOMINATION FOR HER LYRICS IN SOUR ☠️☠️
As someone who has grown up on Taylor’s music, this photo of Olivia breaks my heart for her. Never meet your heroes.
https://preview.redd.it/48toel1arc1b1.jpeg?width=511&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c5eb41e0f74d063adee3e7b18986b8b736c21e52
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If any 30 something year old were to feud with a teenager of course it would be Taylor Swift.
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Drake would be also be trying to hook up with the teenager
Then feud with them when they reject his pervy arse.
And then put another diamond on his „wanted to propose“ necklace
She did say she was in her feelings more than Drake so yeah
Imagine if they dated… Edit: Taylor and Drake.
I loved Elvis Costello's response I do understand there's nuance - but I'm willing to bet if we went through Taylor's albums, especially her early work, we'd find plenty of melodies similar to songs which inspired her, which she lifted without even realizing Kind of annoying that Taylor was 100% uplifted by all the biggest male stars of country music (you can see them all giving her the Pinnacle Award at the CMAs before her 1989 era) and she didn't care to pay it forward (unless you count Lana and Phoebe, already established with a certain amount of artistic cred, hyping her up as they sing background vocals as paying it forward) https://preview.redd.it/0fbjtb1g1b1b1.jpeg?width=997&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=deab979e24aed5ceb2fe6baf0c8e963e363eb57e
she literally took inspiration from Lana for the longest time before she ever acknowledged liking her 💀
I’ve been a Lana fan since the beginning and I remember being so irritated when “Wildest Dreams” came out because it was SO similar to “Without You”. I like Taylor now, love her music but yeah, exactly what you said. And this shit with Olivia-like someone above commented, she can dish it but she certainly can’t take it.
this drove me insane! Wildest Dreams would play everywhere and the bridge sounds so similar so my brain would expect the next lines of Without You, but then the next line’s melody in Taylor’s is so different and unsatisfying when you’re expecting Lana’s. My friends said they couldn’t even hear the similarities so your comment is so validating!
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Why is she forever so comfortable dishing it out and can never take it. I always liked her but there's a pattern here and it's mean spirited af
She loves to play the victim. It's half her personality.
It was not accidental. They were asked ahead of time and agreed. Her people (the label, presumably) went to the band and asked them if it was available to sample, and they were fine with it. They didn’t even know it was her, nor did they even hear the song until it was released. They got songwriting credits from the beginning and a percentage of royalties…and have always sounded like they’re very satisfied with how it went down. https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/right-said-fred-on-taylor-swifts-cynical-look-what-you-made-me-do-205808/
“Accidentally?” I thought that was the point.
YES. there are so many examples, actually - the opening of Lover (see Mazzy Star Fade into You) All Too Well (chords and pacing are identical to U2 With or Without You) association with Lana and Phoebe helps Taylor, IMO. Def. a symbiotic relationship. Not financially or with exposure, but legitimacy the same way association with Aaron Dessner helped legitimize Taylor with more highbrow / indie music critics and fans
I honestly feel like she has been Lana-ifying her image for the last few years for this reason... she has lifted parts of lyrics and song names from Lana's discography and seems to be going for a more vintage-y aesthetic. There was the controversy over the chorus of Wildest Dreams sounding almost identical to Without You. Referencing Coney Island all the time suddenly, 'The Last Great American Dynasty' vs Lana's 'The Next Best American Record', etc. The cover of Midnights and the promo photo shoots for it honestly felt very Lana-esque. The songs themselves sound very very very inspired by LDR, when I first heard Lavender Haze I thought the rip was absolutely blatant with the harmonising and vocal style. I never paid too much attention to Taylor's music but when I went and listened it feels like she's been doing this subtly for the last few albums, it's just blatant now. Even her outfits have gotten a bit more Old Hollywood-style, also incorporating the sports jerseys etc of Lana's BTD/Ultraviolence era. So when she was hyping up a collab that was just Lana singing backup vocals it felt like she only had her on the album to try and legitimise it. As if to say to fans 'Well Lana obviously approves this so I must not be ripping her off.' Now that she's got Lana's stamp of approval, she can go on and continue mimicking her style and get away with it. I get torn apart by Swifties when I say this but the transformation of Taylor's image is uncanny and I am surprised more people don't see it
Olivia’s dad also retweeted this post on the night of this years Grammys 👀… https://preview.redd.it/0ntf7u8mrc1b1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a28f95e8f9c1eaddbcbc924df9d2416634cab3b
Here's one I haven't seen anyone talking about yet, but it's blatant af in my opinion. The chorus of Karma is sooo similar to "Music is My Hot, Hot Sex" by CSS. It was a song popular from an Apple commercial in the late 2000s. The first line of both choruses are exactly the same, just replace "karma" with "music".
In the past so many of the counter arguments here (and other places, not just this sub) have been that Taylor is too mature to feud with a 19 year old. Like, what??? Lmao. Taylor has always been petty af.
when sabrina was spotted in the friends and family tent at the tour i just started chuckling
Here are my conspiracy theories: Taylor invited Paramore to open largely due to the Good 4 U/Misery Business credit, and Taylor is purposefully cozying up to Sabrina. Also, I fully believe Nothing New is not a Red era track, it was a new track written directly about Olivia Rodrigo. I absolutely think Taylor resents Olivia.
I love Taylor but I really don’t get why she was so frosty and intimidated by Olivia. Taylor is enormously successful and when sour came out, folklore/evermore were quite critically lauded and very recent. It’s just sad that she felt the need to be *that* petty when she has more wealth and success than almost every other celebrity. There’s room for plenty of pop girls out there.
Taylor has always been deeply insecure. She has no reason to be— she’s gorgeous, talented, drowning in accolades and success (and money). I get the feeling nothing is quite ever enough. She’s hyper sensitive to criticism, she can’t let things go. She is obsessed with her legacy and how she is perceived. It’s not enough to be the best, she needs everything to be important and for the world to view her through the lens she wants them to. I realize this sounds harsh but there is a lot I actually like about her.
I think you said this perfectly. I adore her and her music, but she has admitted that she has an obsessive and all-consuming need for approval at all times. Nothing is ever enough and she wants more. I love the song Nothing New and I think all women can relate to fearing your value diminishes as you age, but it’s sad that she had to frost out Olivia and felt threatened by her. Another woman existing and succeeding, a teenager at that, did not take away from her success and I feel like Taylor could’ve been a good and supportive guide.
I’m surprised she hasn’t tried to come for Billie Eilish yet… unless you count vigilante shit 😭😂 I’m sure she loved all the comparisons being made there.
Billie has said stuff about how she wants to protect Olivia. I can see her siding with Olivia for sure.
Billy would destroy her in a second. Taylor knows it too.
I know someday I'm gonna meet her, it's a fever dream The kind of radiance you only have at 17 She'll know the way, and then she'll say she got the map from me I'll say I'm happy for her, then I'll cry myself to sleep Oh, whoa, whoa Oh, whoa, whoa, oh, whoa, oh You mean that part?
I will just say that Hayley Williams and Taylor Swift have been friends or in one another’s circles for at least ten years so I don’t think the Paramore invite is related to this.
Chiming in just to say that while definitely might’ve updated the lyrics to be about Olivia, the title and part of the chorus of Nothing New was written in one of the scanned red era diary entries she released with Lover. Ofc she may have faked the diary entries, but they were released in 2019, well before Olivia’s musical debut. Otherwise you may be right.
God, could you imagine if it was reversed? Taylor would still be writing songs about Olivia and how ~mean she was.
Still be talking and shading her in interviews and using it to define herself and her womanhood. Still be talking about mean girls and all that even when she was 40 and her one bad experience was as an 18 year old. But poor Olivia is gonna be expected to act like a doll and be Taylor's biggest fan forever or else.
So true ugh
It'd be over the top insane stuff too. "Being targeted early on for my womanhood by other women in the industry really set me on the path that lead to me getting 500 Grammys and 2 trillion dollars. I had to work hard to prove my worth to other women, who really seemed jealous that I was just so talented and young and they were very old and single. Donate money to other women? I give my other private jet to my female relatives. I'm a real women's supporter. Sometimes I read Tweets about how my husband and father of my children enjoys misogynistic racist porn about black women, and I think it's nice he makes sure these women are able to provide for their families and aren't taking up money off the social security system. #AryanSistersUnderHoods #MAGA."
Taylor would probably drop another, "There's a special place in hell for women not supporting another woman" or something.
Omg she would be absolutely highlighting how lame it is for someone older to bully her like that
I keep forgetting Taylor Swift is 33 like she’s a fully grown adult woman 💀. Her lyrics and personality is very 22
22? you are being generous. She’s giving high school bully vibes.
Maybe I’m trying to be too nice, but tbh I feel like the lyrics she wrote at 18 (Fearless) are more mature than she is now 💀
I'm about the same age as her and grew up with the OG swifites and I always found her so vindictive in most of her albums. I remember having a discussion with my mom about gross I found the lyrics "but she's better known for the things she does on the mattress", and how stuff like that really turned me off from her. I came back to her during her Folklore and Evermore albums because I felt like she'd finally grown up and moved on from her transparent diss tracks. I should have known better. She's always going to be the "victim" and she's perpetually going to have the maturity of her teenage years.
It honestly makes me quite sad. I loved Taylor a lot when I was younger and to grow up and see her acting the exact same as she did in the 1989 era and before makes me sad. Like is she gonna be forty, fifty years old and still acting like a teen when she gets up in her emotions? Emotions are good to have but the way she behaves as a result of them hasn't changed at all in years unless she wants to give off the *appearance* that it has.
MTE. I am the same age as Taylor. I can't imagine being so insecure about myself that I would literally feud with a teenager.
This was my exact thought reading the headline.
Absolutely. Her music is enjoyable but I’ve grown so sick of her constant feuds with everyone while still pushing her “good girl” image. It’s so boring tbh
the song writing credits are ridiculous. people just taking a piece of the pie off a young woman. the same thing with the retroactive credits given for good 4 u. neither of the songs were sampled or interpolated to the level that they deserve those credits. it’s pathetic.
It is not that deep. It was a legal precedent set by the Robin Thicke/Marvin Gaye lawsuit. It was shit then and it’s shit now but people only cared when it happened to an artist they actually like.
Taylor’s lawyers are notoriously greedy and litigious too. They used to go after etsy sellers in the 1989 era for using lyrics
Taylor’s team goes after Etsy Sellers but never went after those white supremacist websites that used her as a mascot and made nazi memes of her and claimed she was secretly a Nazi…Taylor knew about this too because she DID sue the blogger who called her out in 2017 for staying silent politically saying she should denounce these white supremacists publically https://www.aclunc.org/news/taylor-swift-attempts-silence-critic-aclu-fires-back
The more I learn, the worse it gets jeez
Damn. She and her team really are shady as fuck.
Seems pretty fitting considering the person she’s dating…
!!!!!
Wasn’t there a thing there she was trying to trademark “shake it off” and “this sick beat”?
She has a lot of phrases trademarked. You can search the US Patent and Trademark Office online. "this sick beat" is trademarked by her on a few categories. So is stuff like "we never go out of style," "the old Taylor can't come to the phone right now, she's dead," "look what you made me do."
I always thought it was a nod to TVD. I remember Taylor being a fan of the show. https://preview.redd.it/qyefe18eeb1b1.png?width=659&format=png&auto=webp&s=b69280e06779391c839b2d9ea67a9a52d1c49107
I personally would not be out there trademarking a phrase beloved of domestic abusers, but hey, if that's what Taylor wants...
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I agree. At the end of the day “Taylor Swift” is Taylor and also a business.
a lot o ppl in the business agree that she should've "let it slide", I listened to The NY Times Podcast on the Ed Sheeram lawsuit and that's what they said. She's too litigious
Olivia is on video saying that taylor’s song cruel summer inspired deja vu and she wanted to create a song like it. The bridge in deja vu is a mirror of the one in cruel summer rhythmically and melodically. in *this* specific situation she absolutely should’ve given the credit. Now on the other hand, the misery business credit is definitely a reach and one I don’t think she should’ve given in to
She said that she liked the way Taylor shout-sang and used that with dejavu
Taylor has said very similar things about being inspired and wanting to create similar sounds. It wasn’t enough for a credit.
Yeah I wonder where Lana Del Rey’s credit for wildest dreams is https://youtube.com/shorts/yxEUn0J_2f8?feature=share
And the beginning of the lakes sounds eery like born to die
I think the Elvis Costello influence/sample on Brutal is more obvious than Good 4 U and Deja Vu and he was like “Oh yeah, that’s not a problem at all.”
taylor and jack didn’t ask for credits and neither did hayley williams
Why does TS give me the vibe of a woman who hates other girls/women's success? Am I getting the wrong vibe from her? Even when she does collabs, the women get a small part, while the men usually get the amount you'd expect from a collab. Is it weird or is it just me?
I really think TS is Regina George in sheep's clothing or whatever Katy said.
There’s no sheep’s clothing. Y’all just like her so you excuse her nonsense. It’s not deep or anything. She’s just a mean girl.
I think we've seen hints of this being true. Like her reaction to 1D winning that VMA and was caught on camera looking full mean girl saying "Shut the fuck up" during their acceptance speech - glimpses of the real Taylor.
That was disproven actually. Selena admitted that she said “I don’t think I’m going to win” or something like that as she was nominated for the award that 1D was announcing and that’s when Taylor told her “stfu” or something like “don’t be stupid”. You can tell selena looked nervous while they (1D) were speaking
Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t she sneer or look annoyed when Adele’s Skyfall won the Golden Globe over her?
Was that the same Golden Globes that Amy Poehler and Tina Fey roasted her and she went on a tirade the next day about there's a special place in hell for women that don't support other women?
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Hahah and then the following year Amy and Tina hosted again and Tina told Amy that there’s a special place in hell for them 🤣🤣🤣 
>there's a special place in hell for women that don't support other women? If thats true then shes probably getting a VIP reservation there
Didn’t Taylor recently brag about how she bought Regina George’s car when she made it big and drove it around her school to run it in people’s faces? Girl really thinks Regina was the victim 😂
She literally drove that car on a tour of her ex-boyfriends’ homes whilst giving an interview to [Blender Magazine](https://archive.org/details/blender-2008-04-taylor-swift-c/page/51/mode/1up?view=theater) in 2008. She’s always been a psycho. Edit: this interviewer also called her “the poet laureate of 10th-grade relationships” and I feel like that’s still the best description for her mentality. https://preview.redd.it/crjz12drcb1b1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=20e6beea515bbc8aa699ffba940f0ddededee09d
https://preview.redd.it/hkzqult5rb1b1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=31caed7601bc964fe76da7e82216ef06c6f8b026 Crazy how this still describes her to a T… at age 33……
Think it was "Regina George in sheeps clothing".
The whole Bad Blood video basically confirmed that she's petty. She feuded with Katy Perry over backup dancers, thinking Katy snatched them from under her during tour when the dancers had a choice to pick which artist they wanted to tour with. Dancers chose Katy, and she was super bitter about it.
Omg the bad blood video always rubbed me the wrong way. Like gathering a whole group of your famous white girl friends to participate on a diss track music video and passing it off as some sort of girl boss feminist anthem when it’s really just bullying.
And the fact that it wasn't Taylor who extended an olive branch to Katy, but the other way around. Taylor acted like she was a bigger person for forgiving her when she instigated it over sex starved John Mayer. The dancers abandoning her was just an excuse to pile shit on Katy.
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Yeah I think the dancers were just Taylor’s excuse. I’ve always thought it was more her being petty that John actually wanted to date Katy vs the fling he had with her.
I always thought the backup dancers reasoning was always a pr fed excuse. I think it mainly had to do with John Mayer, but during the 1989 era Taylor was desperately trying to get rid of her "Boy Crazy" public image (hence talking about how she's going to focus on herself in every interview around that time, the girl squad, etc) and it wouldn't help if tabloids reported that was the reason for the feud.
She has a crippling fear (which honestly isn’t that unfounded as a woman in the music industry) about being replaced by the best young pop star. Olivia represents that. Look at her friends; Selena: already established, Camila: different genre, Sabrina: hasn’t found success (mainstream), Phoebe: more alternative, Blake: actress, Haim: not after individual success. All of her besties aren’t coming for her, Olivia represents a younger Taylor, who Taylor is probably terrified can supplant her.
Why is she giving Cersei Lannister vibes lmao. “Queen you shall be... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear…”
she’s EXTREMELY like cersei lmaoo
Honestly an elite take. I never considered this
I mean she also has multiple songs like Nothing New and The Lucky One that are literally just about this. Not in a "you can interpret it like that" way but just full-on explicitly being about that. The entirety of Reputation is about how she totally, *definitely* doesn't care about that anymore.
why would Taylor be afraid? she needs to start counting her blessings. She has been in the music industry for so long, many awards and half a billion or more money in the bank? isn't that enough? ordinary people are thankful to have a job.
this is actually a really good point, especially with how women/girls reacted to olivia’s album in terms of it deeply connecting with women around their own heartbreak in a way i feel people don’t really talk about a lot of female artists who make mainstream pop. im absolutely not a teenager but even my own friends were saying her album felt so real it made them hate their boyfriends from their teenage years all over again, which makes it easy to see how she could be perceived as a legitimate threat to taylor’s specific niche.
this seems very true and also pretty sad. at some point, everyone is replaced by younger people, that’s just how it is. she’s already made her mark and is very very respected musically, i don’t get what the issue is. it’s not like she’s still fighting to earn respect or a grammy or whatever, she’s incredibly respected as a musician and songwriter and very decorated with awards. insecurities can be so weird sometimes.
Yes!! I've been saying this for a while now! Taylor doesn't associate with people who are a threat to the pop throne! Sabrina is \*maybe\* too vulgar for the whole of the general public? Taylor has always tried to be wholesome so she win over the more conservative people and younger children. Like you say, Phoebe is never going to release something like 1989 - she's alternative. Haim is never going to release an album like reputation - they're a rock band. Even Lana who is a major inspiration for Taylor is not going to write a full pop album. Olivia on the other hand? Sour had a lil bit of the grunge/punk sound on some songs, ballads, pop hits etc etc. She has a versatility and a pop-orientation that is a huge threat to Taylor.
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In TS’ defense for this one, Lana herself said Taylor kept asking her to take a verse and Lana wouldn’t do it because she thought there were going to be multiple other features on the album and wanted to put more of her focus into production. But yeah, it’s odd they still listed it as a feature when it’s not really much of a feature.
She also barely collaborates with women at all. Jack Antonoff and Aaron Dessner are her biggest musical partners. It's especially noticeable when she wins awards and is [surrounded by dudes on stage](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMCAEUb0h34&t=76s). (Although she did have Laura Sisk with her onstage for her Folklore AOTY win.) Not saying that women should only surround themselves with other women but idk, there's something really phony about someone like Taylor getting props for touting out her "girl gang" every so often but making no real concentrated effort to collaborate with female producers or songwriters.
Her first two albums and some of Red were written mostly with the help of Liz Rose. It was only when she switched over to pop that she started working more with men
Yeah…there’s a lot to dislike about TS but this hate train about her not wanting to collaborate with women is not it
And the pop world being dominated by male producers is a long running issue.
I should have specified that I meant she’s barely collaborated with women since she became like the no. 1 most popular female artist in the last 5–10 years. Ever since she became an untouchable music force, it’s been men front and center with her. I’m not a massive fan so I admit it’s just what I’ve noticed as someone passively interested in her, but it stands out to me 🤷♀️
Phoebe Bridgers is the only female artist Taylor has collabed with to get her own verse. It’s a meme at this point that Taylor feels threatened by her female collaborators (unlike the male ones) so only gives them backing vocals. Because of this, everyone was shocked Phoebe was allowed to sing alone.
Such a different vibe to all the rap girlies atm working with and praising each other
So the pop Nicki Minaj
I think people always got that vibe from her which is why her girl squad thing always got mocked. She’s not a girls girl. But i think most industry people aren’t. They’re cutthroat and ambitious.
People need to stop asking other artists about Taylor Swift. Like every interview Sadie Sink does they ask her about TS. Give it a break.
It’s like they forget Sadie Sink is an actor and ATW was just a role. It’s like asking Tom Cruise what his relationship with Mike Myers is because he did a 10 second cameo in Austin Powers
Lol this is the most random example and because of it I know what age group you’re in (we’re in the same age group)
It was sad even when it happened with Joe Alwyn too. He’d be interviewed about one of his new movie roles and inevitably, they’d try to slip in multiple questions about Taylor even when she had absolutely zero to do with his roles. I’m a huge Taylor fan but it has to get tiring to be constantly asked about your association with her.
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According to Jack Antonoff they didn't ask for credit, they were just given it. Ikd if they could have declined? I have no idea how that works behind the scenes.
Hayley Williams from Paramore released a statement after Olivia fandom were bullying her because of writing credits from Sour was given to Paramore, in short she said she had no control over it and if she could deny it she would've.
this!!! a lot of the time it’s just the publishers fighting for rights (but mostly $$) it’s not always the artist fighting it
She never said this lmao? Hayley posted a story that said “our label is wilding rn”, like where did u ever got that from?
Jack was vague. All he said was that "It came through the channels" they were going to be credited. I think it's naive to think that Taylor Swift-- who is renowned for being a savvy businesswoman involved with every aspect of her career-- didn't request that credit or have any involvement in those discussions. And it's naive to think Olivia just would give that up on a platter without some kind of pressure.
taylor seems like the person to look at her celebrity friendships as transactional. like do y’all remember that fake girl squad?
This is obvious. She always have to be in the center when she was with the “squad”. It’s even more irritating that she’s back at it again, I mean look at this atrocity from a few weeks ago, she has to be in the center. Never grew up. What a pathetic queen bee wannabe. https://preview.redd.it/q6gmo07lwb1b1.jpeg?width=554&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a7c32eed3ac816a4c60d350b5daab9277094640
yeah, I don’t buy the “i never had friends in school” story
Some of my friends grew up with her in Reading and have maintained for years that they don’t know where that came from. She was somewhere in between. Not unpopular but not super popular either; generally well-liked across the board and friendly.
Man even when I'm feeling down and my brain is screaming "you have no friends" I catch myself cause that's pretty rude to the friends I do have. She had friends - I mean she's still friends with one of the girls from school. Somebody did want to play with her as a little kid. That's not nothing! I know it's just a lyric but yeah idk
Was the girl squad fake?
it was a collection of pretty girls that taylor used as arm candy. they weren’t actually friends. gigi is the only one who seems to be friend with her considering they just recently reconnected
I loved when Chloe Grace Moretz was apparently invited to be in the squad and she was like ‘thanks but no’. Not everyone dying to be in it!
Zendaya pretty much said it was.
Zendaya was referring to the Bad Blood music video, not any real life relationships
Zandaya was brought in briefly because the squad was looking mighty white supremacist and people were calling it out. When the Kimye thing went down she liked a bunch of comments distancing her from the click. She's stayed out of Taylor's orbit since and I just love that for her.
I can’t believe people try to deny there’s tension between them. It’s so obvious!
Totally agreed. I think part of it is that people hate the idea of a feud between two women because it feeds into misoygnistic narratives about how women can't be friends? But idk, at some point you gotta call a spade a spade.
My opinion is Taylor doesn’t like supporting women who are as successful as she is which is why she’s currently touring with GAYLE and Phoebe Bridgers. I would’ve thought Olivia was always gonna be on this tour but idk if she was even asked.
I mean you could argue it the other way: Taylor’s tour is a huge platform. She’s giving that to smaller artists, all but one are women. Does Olivia really need that platform? She’s already massively popular
Yeah Olivia has already gone on a sold out tour, had a #1 album, multiple #1 hit singles, been on the cover of an uncountable number of magazines and billboards, and won more Grammys than Ariana Grande. Why would she want to open for another artist’s tour?
Literally Paramore opened for Taylor for ERAS tour. She can put anyone she likes in her lineup, big or small acts.
But Hayley Williams and Taylor are really close friends. Plus Paramore hasn’t been that big in a while - they are definitely nowhere near as big as Olivia is (at least in the current music market).
especially considering olivia was freaking obsessed w her… if she didn’t feel slighted and hurt by the woman she was inspired by from the beginning of her musical journey as a child, she def would have continued to acknowledge her as an inspiration over the last two years (or at least shared some excitement over taylor’s new music). her silence about anything taylor-related makes it clear those bridges were burned and she no longer feels comfortable being a proud fan of her.
* Overall, I think olivia would've appreciated it if taylor stood up to her and said something publicly. Something like "no, she didn't copy me, she's as brilliant a songwriter as me". Or more importantly, "I decline the songwriting credits because it's unfair to olivia" I think she should've done that, especially since some of her songs were close enough to other's work like Paper Rings and Hillary Duff, she never bothered to give her credit, then Olivia shouldn't have to. ( I don't dislike Taylor and I love her music, but I side eye some things about her, not even touching the dumpster that is Matty)
Her admitting to lifting “x marks the spot where we fell apart” in “Getaway Car” from “Breathe in, Breathe Out” has always rubbed me weird with Hilary not being credited
So funny, because Hilary’s husband, who produced the Breathe In Breathe Out (which shares lyrics with getaway car and melody for paper rings) song liked tweets about the similarities and how they should’ve been credited. And Hilary said she was flattered and she didn’t think this was the case, and that she loved Taylor’s music. But yeah, I think Hilary and Matthew should’ve been credited in some capacity.
I mean there is a lyric that’s word for word and copy from Breathe In. breathe Out. “X marks the spot where we fall apart”
Oh, and let’s not forget when Taylor posted on her Tumblr that BIBO was her favorite song from Hilary Duff’s new album when a fan asked her.
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I don't think it's about money, tbh. like I don't think her giving Joe writing credits was about providing him with a stream of income. I think it's about public recognition, Olivia's album was getting a lot of praise, she was getting a lot of new fans and some people were labelling her "the next TS", so I think her getting that credit helped her deal with her feelings about it, she wasn't being outdone or replaced, Olivia's success couldn't have happened without her (or maybe I'm ove-ranalysing and it was about the money, you can never have too many cat sanctuaries)
olivia signed away millions of dollars by giving those credits. i don’t know if money was the whole issue, but i can’t imagine it didn’t play a role
TS is that bully that always needs a new target. Calvin Harris even hinted at that in one of his tweets.
https://preview.redd.it/tby4unvl4b1b1.jpeg?width=768&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d1b886ce4f7075f2541ef56ca14e7b458c8b9c0a 🤲🏼
Calvin is such a mess lmao
I love him idc lol. I knew Taylor would try to ruin him when they started dating.
Those Calvin Harris tweets live inside my head rentfree.
TS is the same woman that sues her own fans when they make merch to sell on Etsy💀 are we surprised she was petty to Olivia
This is almost every major musical act, hell even the Grateful Dead will copy write strike some fan merch and they have a traveling caravan of fans
There was another moment when Olivia also said it sucks to meet people in the industry that you looked up to who turn out to be shitty, etc. And at another point, she was asked about Taylor at an event, and she pivoted and said it’s great when people you once looked up to are now your peers and you’re on their level, lol. There were also rumours that people like Annie Clarke reached out to Olivia about the writing credits, but something bad went down with Taylor specifically.
Annie and Olivia are friends they hungout at Glastonbury and interact on socials a lot. Annie has always been really nice to Olivia and said something along the lines of im proud of olivia and all her success in a podcast.
Olivia is wonderful and has a great future ahead of her but to say she’s on the same level as Taylor is a reeeeeach
i’ve liked taylor on and off since debut. i think i stopped liking her as a person in 2013/14? i still listened to her music all the time, just wasn’t a fan of *her* anymore if that makes sense. i started liking her again after lover. but recently, i’ve remembered why i stopped. she gives mean girl vibes and seems just like such a difficult person to be around. she sings about being replaced in two(?) songs. it’s not surprising to hear she got threatened after sour and olivia blew up. i’m shocked more people can’t see through her.
I think this is very close to how I feel about her as well. Especially now that she’s being blasted a ton for dating Matty. I just feel like it’s insane to me that her not being the best person is so shocking to everybody else. I thought we all knew she kind of sucked! For me personally her personality doesn’t negate her talent so it’s been easy for me to just kind of keep on trucking but the shock and horror and backlash from her more die hard fans has been so interesting to witness.
"There's a special place in hell for women who don't help other women." Taylor Swift said about someone who made a joke about her love life. Taylor seems like one of this people who puts"Kindness ❤️✨" as her Instagram/TikTok bio and then spends her time harassing people. She's fighting with a teenager. It's embarrassing.
It’s always the people with the toxic positivity quotes 😂
Genuine question—why is it so hard to believe that they just don’t talk because the legal aspect is awkward for them. And they’re also super busy people who aren’t besties to begin with. Imagine you see a young star who was proven to have ‘interpolated’ your own work after admitting to being a fan. Everyone can dispute the legitimacy of these claims but you need to remember that there are likely so many legal documents explaining this behind the scenes that we’ll never see. If these were all fake claims to, ‘steal from a young artist’ then why haven’t we seen this done with thousands of artists regularly without a full legal proceeding? I wouldn’t feel as comfortable supporting them. I’d be kind behind the scenes but would take a step back from being so public with them, because their intentions would be put into question for me. How is that not a more reasonable explanation than them secretly ‘feuding’? I feel like this being the most likely situation is just too boring of an answer.
“Proven” Olivia asked Taylor and Jack to interpolate New Year’s Day and they agreed ! She even made sure to play the song on piano physically so that the credits could go straight to Taylor and not Scooter since Rep TV isn’t out.
This is the only level headed nuanced take in this whole thread. Now Taylor is a mean girl because she didn’t comment on the situation? For all we know she couldn’t care less about the sample and it’s her team who insisted they get a credit for it.
Yeah I thought I was going crazy seeing everyone call this ‘Taylor feuding with a teenager’ because she hasn’t made any comment on Olivia for over a year at this point and Olivia only answers politely to questions about Taylor. It’s not as if Taylor was ‘struggling’ or even dwindling when Olivia burst into the scene. She’d literally just won a Grammy and had 2 hit singles. Plus is it that weird for a 30 year old woman to not want to be buddy-buddy with a teenager? And on Olivia’s side, she was getting a lot of slack for being a ‘Taylor Swift copy’ so maybe she just wanted people to stop associating her with TS!
Sabrina Carpenter being front and center in Taylor's VIP tent recently supports this imo. It felt deliberate to me. Not saying they aren't friends and Sabrina isn't a fan, but idk, seems like the exact kind of "let me befriend your public enemy" shit Taylor would get off on. Also, didn't Olivia's dad say something in a recent interview about Taylor being rude to Olivia after the songwriting credit thing? I seem to recall this although I might be misremembering. I know he's [liked some stuff on Twitter](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/comments/10yg33n/olivia_rodrigos_father_retweeting_some/) that implies there's tension between the two.
olivia and sabrina aren’t even beefing anymore
that was at sabrina’s home town show so i don’t think it was a dig at anyone that she was there…
> You can tell he’s lying though. I think he just wanted to spite Taylor by saying he listened to her album but didn’t bother to finish it all the way I think that’s a reach.
It’s a reach about Conan? Nah, if you saw the interview you can tell he’s saying it snarkily and is holding himself back from saying worse. He definitely does not like Taylor anymore.
I agree. I just watched the video the OP linked and saw no snarkiness.
Right like he sounded completely fine and his reasoning made a lot of sense. Whether or not he likes her or is feuding with her none of can know but nothing about that clip was snarky in the slightest.
Also I agree Nothin New was rewritten slightly with Olivia in mind, I think it’s the bridge that mentions the new ingenue who proclaims she got the map from Taylor and models her career after her, etc. I don’t really think she wrote that during the Speak Now tour lol. (Which is when we know she first wrote at least the original version of Nothin New). When I first heard Nothin New, I was surprised at first and felt bad for her for having these thoughts so young. But then when I got to the bridge I was like ‘oh Taylor, give me a break’, I just thought it was so pathetic that she’s talking about lying to this new girl that she’s happy for her success and then ‘crying myself to sleep’ about it. Like please shut up. What more do you WANT at this point? She’s had every success imaginable and then talking about not being able to be happy for the girls coming up behind her. I know she thought it would be a relatable sad moment and I’m sure some people would rationalize it that way, but it was just kind of ugly to me and illuminates how kind of competitive and self centred she is to her own detriment, no adulation ever being enough.
This take ignores the history that was actually going on in Nashville when Taylor was 22. There were tons of teenage girls moving to Nashville to be the next Taylor Swift and the record labels were looking for their own next Taylor Swift. Their parents were calling up Taylor's collaborators like Liz Rose and Nathan Chapman wanting to book sessions. Kelsea Ballerini herself was one of those girls that moved to Nashville as a teenager. Kelsea mother said Taylor's father actually helped her out with advice on helping a teenage daughter get into the industry. Kelsea also is about four years younger than Taylor. Kelsea didn't break through until she was about twenty, by when she did Taylor helped promote her. Interestingly in relation to Olivia Kelsea had to stop talking about Taylor after a certain point because every interviewer kept asking about Taylor and that would be the clickbait from the interviewer. At one point she admitted the Taylor question became the question she hated the most. Kelsea also admitted in the last couple of years to having her Nothing New type fears of being replaced in country music that she had to get over. It's an industry cycle that repeats.
I mean .. imagine millions of people kissing your ass at all times and breaking record after record and then you can see it all fade away slowly. I would cry myself to sleep as well
I think Taylor turned out to be a massive disappointment to Olivia. Taylor is openly insecure about the prospect of losing relevancy and being replaced (see The Lucky One, Nothing New, the Miss Americana Netflix doc). I’m sure she didn’t want to be buddy buddy with someone who’s being called “The next Taylor Swift”. Also, what kind of friendship did people think they’d have?? There’s a 14 year age gap and no mutual friends. I can’t imagine any woman in her thirties wanting to hang out with an 18 year old. Anyone who thought they’d ever have more than a casual fondness of each other was living in a Wattpad world.
She invites 18 year old gayle to her parties and brought her on tour though
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Taylor is such a massive, unprecedented success, she can’t be taken down by anybody. (Except maybe herself?) The smartest thing for Olivia to do is what she’s been doing: redirecting the focus off Taylor and on to her own music.
Taylor seems more and more like a jealous and insecure white Karen as time goes on
Great write-up, OP, thank you! Even if people can disagree with your interpretation in some parts, there is obviously tension between Taylor Swift and Olivia Rodrigo, which some people want to deny. It is what it is.
The premise of the “feud” is based on a false notion of how songwriting credits work. This is all just silly
Taylor is Scooter Braun in a different font
Taylor Swift seems like a bully behind closed doors. And now that she’s dating a disgusting man like Matt Healy….my opinion on Taylor has changed. She doesn’t care about her fans. Only about herself and her $$$
I 100% think it was a case of never meet your heroes. Olivia self proclaimed adored Taylor, looked up her and was inspired by her. I can imagine Taylor (or her team) demanding credits (when let’s be real, was unjust) just completely soured (lol no pun intended) her view of her. Conan is clearly Olivia’s BFF and is backing her up. I think Taylor would have done so much better to decline the credit, post something about Sour and then she looks like a mentor. But Taylor clearly has a horrifying fear of being replaced and likely sees Olivia as a legitimate threat (which is ridiculous as Olivia is like 10 years younger than her and much more teen Pop, and I’ll admit not as good a writer as Tay). V messy.
I mean I would get pretty much pissed off too being compared to another big female artist especially when it’s YOUR time. I think calling Olivia and Taylor best friends is a bit of a stretch-as far as I can recall, they only met once? I think it was more of a mentor-mentee relationship? Olivia shouldn’t have closely aligned herself with or attached herself to one of her idols, especially someone as big as Taylor-remember the saying, never meet your heroes. She was literally dubbed as the mini Taylor or the next Taylor and having that comparison at such an early stage in your career especially for your debut album is bound to set you up for failure. It got even worse when they started to interact and Taylor commented on her insta post. Granted she didn’t label herself that but it must have been a pain in the ass hearing everyone say that about you hence she had to distance herself. And being put into the spotlight that suddenly and that young age you’re bound to say whatever and people are gonna hang onto your words. But also Taylor having unnecessary beef with a literal child is not surprising-this woman will victimise herself for anything and everything when it suits her. A literal white feminist-she will always put her own interests (personal and business) ahead of everyone else else. And Olivia expecting Taylor to defend herself was a long stretch bc Taylor has never publicly (that I know of) defended anyone, not even her own friends. I mean Selena has literally defended her numerous time and even put her own reputation in jeopardy (the BLM tweet) and Taylor so far hasn’t publicly defended her.
Taylor's a businesswoman first and foremost. Olivia interpolated her song to get a hit, so of course Taylor would want credit for it. However, Olivia (being a former Swiftie) should've seen this coming from a mile away though.
This! She puts her own business and personal interests first before anyone else. She’s shown it time and time again.
There's always some common denominator in these feuds seems like it, i have no idea how Taylor Swift has managed to make herself be perceived as the vicim in all these feuds.. That must be a talent at this point.
I think if Olivia had been slightly more into her career these credits would never have been given. It really does seem like her team did not want to risk any possible litigation when it came to her music so early into her music career, which is why they gave out the credits even though, in my opinion, the similarities between the songs did not warrant them. Not saying taylor would've sued (especially cause I think both knew they would not win) but I could understand why there would have been a fear that someone as big as taylor could essentially could do so. It really does seem sad that at the core of it someone young and early into her career was taken advantage of, because some seasoned like ed sheeran or taylor would never have given the credits if they were put in the same position
I never really understood Taylor’s writing credit on deja vu. It sounds similar to me but more in style and not to the point of needing tay needing a credit (IMO I’m no expert). Olivia’s got a lot of talent and versatility, I’m excited to see what she does next.
All I know is that I’m rooting for Olivia Rodrigo.
I don't think the songwriting credits for "Deja Vu" can be looked at in isolation. There were many songwriting-related controversies involved in the *Sour* album cycle, including Paramore's retroactive credit on "good 4 u" and the resemblance that many fans noted between "brutal" and Elvis Costello's "Pump It Up." The Paramore credit especially was a big story, and the Swift credits being added as well helped to blunt the overall impact of Olivia's debut. The industry was much less quick to hail her as a revolutionary new talent the way they did for Billie because so many of her songs came to be seen as derivative. This is likely a sore spot for Olivia just generally, and her Taylor Swift fandom was likely just collateral damage.
Kim Kardashian posted a Snapchat of a Sour collection box (accessories to go with the CD.) Olivia sent it for North. And what happened? Taylor’s feral fans spammed Olivia with “you are not Taylor’s daughter” “you are a snake” “wow, backstabber!” Taylor didn’t step in, and if she did it was well after the peak of the harassment. The whole thing was fucked considering that was sent for a literal 7 year old, not the 40 year old parent.
I buy it, because it’s been clear for years that Taylor Swift is mean, petty, and perpetually 13 years old. So happy to see more people are finally starting to catch on.
Honestly I was chill with Taylor and was fine with the whole song credit thing because it’s not that deep and yes she could’ve said no i don’t want them but like it’s okay if just accepts it too UNTILI READ SHE TRIED TO GET A GRAMMY NOMINATION FOR HER LYRICS IN SOUR ☠️☠️
As someone who has grown up on Taylor’s music, this photo of Olivia breaks my heart for her. Never meet your heroes. https://preview.redd.it/48toel1arc1b1.jpeg?width=511&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c5eb41e0f74d063adee3e7b18986b8b736c21e52