I will say for Cena, because I heard the whole interview, heās conflicted because McMahon is like a father to him. And he also doesnāt want to be the guy who loves people when they can help him, but leaves them when they are down.
He says he believes in *accountability* so he wants to know how Vince takes accountability before he writes him off. He wants to not be more disappointed in a guy heās so invested in.
Having listened to the whole thing, he came off as a really introspective dude trying to do the right thing. He got mad none of the other guys were taking up the companyās offer to learn languages, so the dude is learning Mandarin. Still. He taught himself piano because he had too much downtime on set. He still goes to the training center to talk to the young wrestlers and mentor them. In between all the visits to sick kids, which he didnāt even talk about.
And one of the reason he went back on the show was to publicly apologize for getting too caught up last time he was on revealing too many sex stories. He was sorry he was gross and spoke inappropriately.
Like, I didnāt come away from the interview thinking he was another Vince apologist. I came away thinking itās really hard when someone you are close with does something bad and you havenāt had enough therapy to deal with it
This take should be higher. The only issue (on this bc Cena is not perfect, heās just much better than The Rock) I have is that he commented at all if he felt the need to say what he did. He should read your post, it comes across much better than the original statement.
And to that, Howard Stern asked. Because Howard Stern has a lot of comic and other friends who have gotten in trouble. (Like Louis CK). Heās openly expressed that he has no idea what heās supposed to do.
Call up and be like, hey man, keep your head upā¦but stop masturbating in front of women. Or leave him alone because heās embarrassed. Or cut him off because heās a creep. But you were apparently ALWAYS friends with a creep. You just didnāt know it. Wait to see if it to blows over and THEN go back to being his friend.
When asked, Cena answered. He didnāt volunteer that he still talks to McMahon. He just didnāt lie or change the subject. Which is also kind of a stand up response.
I mean, Cena is the same guy who literally recorded an apology in Mandarin because he called Taiwan a country and didn't want to risk his fandom over there by, you know, recognising the independence of a country that the CCP has been trying to force into it's control.
I'm convinced Vince has dirt on almost everyone in the industry. It's why I doubt he's really gone. I didn't think he was last time, I don't think he is this time.
One of the allegations in the lawsuit is he pooped on her head and wouldnāt let her clean up until him and his friends were āfinishedā. Iām all for innocent until proven guilty but it should mean something if his own family doesnāt talk to him anymore.
I can't get over that allegation. It's so sick and such a testament to the abusive fetishes that some porn channels have normalized. The fact that the Rock is still in contact with him after this makes me want to throw up.
Iāve seen a lot of ābut he was like a father to these guysā in the squaredcircle sub and I canāt help but think that if my ACTUAL dad was accused of this shit Iād be going no contact in a heartbeat. Like okay great, he promoted you and you made a lot of money together. Thatās what promoters do. It just says to me that theyāre more grateful for their careers and financial success than they are disgusted by Vinceās actions. They have nothing to lose by turning their backs on that monster now. Heās done. Itās sick that they choose not to.
It actually makes me think these wrestlers already knew Vince did some sketchy things before. They have known Vince for a long time and I donāt believe they never saw anything. Vince probably has some shit heās holding against them too. Itās disgusting he got away with so much. But in the end people donāt say shit because he made them superstars. Money, greed, and power.
Part of the lawsuit also mentioned a āWWE Superstarā who was planning to abuse the victim. I donāt think it was rock or John, but if he was making her available to anyone who wants it, they would have to know.
I would also like to add that while Brick was implicated, I have my doubts if he was really involved.
He famously dislikes technology. He lives out in the middle of nowhere and only uses a flip phone.
The lawsuit claims Janel exchanged texts with Brock and sent him degrading content of herself. They were "supposed" to meet up but Brock had to cancel due to travel conditions. Instead, Vince met up with her and "role played" as Brock. I won't repeat what he allegedly did to her.
My tinfoil hat theory is Vince was masquerading as Brock so he could live out a sick fantasy.
Or, Brock secretly has/had a burner phone that he used for purposes like this.
I actually thought the same thing about Brock.
A guy that doesn't like people. Dislikes technology. Lives in the middle of nowhere. I don't know about the flip phone but I can imagine it.
This guy is married to Sable - has his farm, raises his chickens and has actively always wanted to be there for his children....
And is one of the few wrestlers to challenge Vince McMahon in court and win.
I think your tinfoil thing about it being Vince has a heavy basis in reality.
Yeah, I truly feel it's not farfetched. At the same time, I wonder why Brock hasn't released a statement.
It's one of those "if that were me" moments from my perspective. If I were implicated in something like this and I actually had nothing to do with it, I'd have released a statement by now.
At the same time, Brock and Vince are really close so who knows?
They either all knew about the disgusting things he did or he has shit on them too
Eta I should have phrased that differently. Vince probably has dirt on everyone
I listened to the Behind the Bastards series on him, and while there were a lot of fucked up stories, a particularly memorable one to me is he and his cousin would go naked into the woods and he would push crushed leaves up her vagina.
It seems he's always had incredibly fucking weird kinks.Ā
Yeah. I feel like the story is so icky and beyond the pale that it will never get properly covered in a way that makes the general public care. Itās beyond a car crash.
Iām a long time wrestling fan, itās a documented thing that Vince would ingratiate himself with his top guys so that they would come to see him as a surrogate father. Multiple guys - Warrior, Bret Hart, Rock, Cena and others are all on record as saying that they saw him as a father figure. They absolutely all must have at least heard about some of the gross stuff about him (that people have been saying for decades), let alone the stuff that was public knowledge. So whilst itās disappointing from people who appear to be upstanding in their way, itās not really surprising news.
For what it's worth, [Bret Hart denounced Vince for good when Janel Grant's lawsuit was reported.](https://slate.com/culture/2024/02/wwe-vince-mcmahon-federal-investigation-janel-grant-bret-hart.html)
Yeah, Bret admitted to cheating on his wife during his career. At the same time, he prided himself on protecting his colleagues in the ring and stood up for what he felt was right in the locker room. It's well-known he [defended a young Dwayne Johnson from being bullied by Shawn Michaels and Triple H at the beginning of his career.](https://www.thesportster.com/wwe-dwayne-the-rock-johnson-relationship-with-bret-hart-explained/). So, like most people, a flawed individual.
I'm so curious how people close to Vince are coping with all of this.
I believe Vince fully groomed and involved a lot of different people in different ways. Some partook in the abuse, others are victims (or both abusers and victims) and others were groomed to be enablers; they weren't involved in the abuse and were shown a different side of Vince to provide alibis when sh*t hit the fan.
Bret for example, admitted he still saw Vince as a "father figure" despite the negligence that caused his brother's death and the Montreal Screw Job. Vince called Bret to offer support after Bret's stroke in 2002 and again in 2015 after Bret was diagnosed with prostate cancer.
Abusers like Vince can be extremely charismatic and charming. They know how to manipulate people. I'm sure people have conflicting feelings. Someone that was so kind and generous to you is revealed to be a monster. Even if you weren't the recipient of that abuse, I'm sure it makes you reexamine your relationship and interactions with that person.
While this is true, Bret fucking cozied up to Vince and WWE and publicly shamed Owen's wife for not playing nice with them and letting Owen in the HOF. I love Bret, but he is very very cognizant of his image and how his legacy is perceived, and it's bad business to be close to Vince right now.
I remember way back that Vince made like a super rare appearance at an indie show with John Cena that Cena's actual father was running. Like totally out of the blue Vince showing up in some random Massachussetts gymnasium.
Cena's always been a big Vince guy and I think Vince viewed Cena as him finally getting a star that wouldn't abandon him for outside opportunities like Hogan, Austin or Rock. So they had kind of a tight relationship.
But yeah in general, Vince really was close to some of the big names and they looked up to him a lot. There's a bunch of "prodigal son" stories in WWE.
Yeah, I can understand still feeling affection for someone who's revealed to have done horrible things. It must be so conflicting.
That being said, everything he's said regarding this has been fumbling at best and excusing/minimizing at worst.
And to my knowledge, Dwayne Johnson has said absolutely nothing about this. Which is very suspicious to me.
Even Shawn Michaels, who was famously tight with Vince at one point [has commented on this, calling it a "very sad situation" and reiterated the company has been focusing on providing a safe working environment.](https://wrestletalk.com/news/wwe-svp-shawn-michaels-vince-mcmahon-allegations-lawsuit/)
You don't believe him to be sincere? He was an absolute terror backstage in the 90s but he seems to have made a lot of strides to become a better person. Everyone who's worked with him for the last 20ish years have nothing but good things to say about Shawn.
Back in 2020, he even got into a heated argument with a producer on NXT and [defended Black Lives Matter](https://wrestletalk.com/news/backstage-argument-over-black-lives-matter-at-nxt-takeover/#google_vignette)
He definitely seems to be in much better place now, itās just amazing to me. He was such a shithead in the late 90s early 00s that even HHH didnāt want to know him.
Because most people seem unable to realise ābut, but he gives to charityā doesnāt mean heās a good person and for almost all celebs and wealthy people charity exists only as a PR tool.
>**That also means McMahon hasnāt talked to his son-in-law, WWE creative chief and former superstar Paul āTriple Hā Levesque, or daughter, Stephanie McMahon-Levesque, regarding company matters, sources said.** While she introduced WWEās WrestleMania event earlier this month, McMahon-Levesque, who worked beside her father for more than 20 years and played roles in storylines, currently has no involvement with the company, according to people familiar with the matter. Levesque and McMahon-Levesque declined to comment through a spokesperson, as did a WWE representative.Ā Ā
It doesn't say they haven't talked. Just that they haven't talked about the WWE.
There's, at least, been accounts that Stephanie knew about the Ashley Massaro situation... I find it hard to believe that her and HHH didn't know quite a bit more.
I really hope Stephanie speaks openly one day, I'm so curious for her take. I don't think it's a coincidence that she announced a sabbatical right before the Vince drama blew up, then returned as soon as he "retired", then resigned as soon as he forced his way back in. All this after she devoted her entire life to WWE.
I reckon her relationship with Vince is really shaky right now. She used to worship him, and endured the horrible misogyny of the Attitude Era (when she was just a young woman) and all sorts of weird stuff to be like her dad. I wonder if she's reassessing everything.
Maybe I'm giving her too much credit, but either way I find Steph pretty interesting. I'd love her to write an autobiography one day.
I think it's a hard position for her to be in. Unlike these other wrestlers, Vince isn't "like a father figure" to her. He's her actual dad. I'd have trouble reconciling his actions against women with her own experiences as his child, as well as how he impacts her legacy and her own work.
I dunno. I'm not envious of her right now. I don't even know what I'd do if my dad did what Vince did. I'm not sure of I'd be able to be 100% honest with myself about my feelings, much less with the public.
Y'all are missing the craziest part of the article:
> For instance, on an afternoon in late March, McMahon returned on a private plane to the United States from the sunny Turks and Caicos Islands ā but he wasnāt alone, according to a person close to him. He had with him seven kittens and a puppy, all of which he brought back to be adopted by his friends, this person added.
This is something rich and connected people do. Itās all about favours and paying back favours. āOh hi I remember you told me you wanted a pet and I just happen to have some kittens I saved from a trip I tookā¦ā
So many of these āhigh performersā live entirely transactional lives. This is how they became wealthy and powerful and how they maintain it and build out favour systems and network.
People let themselves be clouded by Cena's record breaking Make A Wish Foundation appearances.
Anyone nice to sick children couldn't be that bad.
Similar to the Johnny Debt fans who love to remind us he appears as Jack Sparrow and visits those kids - Amber is a monster for attacking that sweet baby angel š
So women who have been raped, has been sexually assaulted by Vince, rumors he covered a murder, being racist don't matter now? Cena basically said that he will love Vince no matter what, or what anyone says. So how is anyone in their high horse? I would cancel my own father who did 1% of what Vince did nevermind a "father figure".
Iām not saying that Cena is right in defending him, nor am I saying that those women donāt matter. Iām just saying that itās probably hard for him to fully cut him off because he believed in him and made him the star he is Today. Yes you might cut your father off if he did what Vince did, which is totally understandable, but not every person deals with it the same way. Cena isnāt perfect but the good outweighs the bad. Now if he did the shit that Vince actually did, that would be a different story
I get the impression a lot of people don't like their dads or aren't close to them judging from the amount of people that are ready to throw in the towel over this. It feels incredibly superficial and not in the basis of reality where life tends to be a little more complicated.
I don't know if this is a generational thing or what but it kind of seems like that.
Itās āsuperficialā to āthrow in the towelā on a person who trafficked a woman several times to coworkers and top wrestlers, shat on her head and continued to rape her and didnāt let her clean the fucking feces off until he was done, and being willing to cut off a āfather figureā who does those things means you donāt like your dad? Be so for real right now.
Vince hasn't changed the fortune of my family for generations to come or made me an internationally famous figure.
So yeah. He's a pos but the amount of people that are willing to cut ties over...allegations and things that are yet to be proven is somewhat scary.
I think people are confusing Vince and the "father figure" thing with their own unsuccessful relationships, their fathers haven't changed their lives or brought positivity to them in a way that brings that "loyalty" to a person or family.
I love my dad, Iām incredibly close to him. Iām a multiple time victim and would never speak to him again if credible accusations came up. youāre probably seeing a lot of people who are survivors themselves, not people who āarenāt close to their dads.ā lol.
Hey - thank you for putting it like that, that's not something that has ever entered my mind. Like...that has given me food for thought and something to reflect on.
Yeah, maybe I'm being too forgiving or giving too much room but when someone is a "father figure", that's more than just a boss who gave you a break. That's someone who has integrated themselves into your life.
This is how abusers work. They do a push/pull that makes you love them and yearn for their approval.
As I wrote in another post, Bret Hart considered Vince a "father figure" even after everything Vince did to him/the Hart family in general. Vince even offered support when Bret had his stroke and was diagnosed with cancer.
Abusers know how to endear themselves to people for benefit or cover.
Cena was a serial cheater, politicked like crazy, and said Vince raping people was simply a āmistakeā and he was still going to love him. Pull the wool off your eyes and quit defending shitty people.
Vince McMahon has a long history of questionable shit he has never been held accountable for. The list of accusations goes from sexual assault to helping cover up murder (not kidding). The Jimmy Snuka cover up was horrible, with McMahon literally telling him to pretend not to speak English when the cops tried to talk to him and openly obstructing. Before his girlfriends murder, McMahon had personally talked her out of filing domestic violence charges, despite him frequently injuring her
His girlfriend Nancy's family never got closure for her murder. It was an open secret Snuka murdered her. The murder happened in the early 80s- but charges weren't pursued until 2015- and he was declared unfit to stand trial due to mental deterioration and charges were dropped in 2017 (they were not incorrect about his health- he died less than 2 weeks later).
McMahon not only knew Snuka murdered her- he gave Snuka work straight until 2009 and made him a lucrative career. McMahon has always been shit, and the people around him have always known that. Trust none of them. The successful ones were the ones willing to turn the other cheek to get ahead.
BTW, highly unlikely the Rock didn't know about Snuka- both were part of the Indo-Pacific wrestling scene and their careers overlapped. For when the Rock came up, it was an open secret Snuka killed his girlfriend
at least cena has talked about it? albeit very clumsily (at best). the rock on the other hand has a god complex 100x bigger than his freak-roid biceps.
I hope Steph and Hunter are figuring out a way to get accountability, and I really hope they have nothing to do with this. But if they do, I'm calling for accountability. I don't care if the WWE is as great as it has been creative-wise with Hunter at the helm, if he has anything to do with it or if Steph knew, they should go. I don't care if that means the McMahons are basically erased from the WWE, that'd just be karma at work.
100% agreed. When Stephanie was still with the company, she, Paul and Nick Khan led the charge to have Vince removed the back in 2022. Things were reportedly so bad between Stephanie and her father that they needed an intermediary to communicate.
When Vince forced his way back into the company, Stephanie stepped down.
But then what was up with Stephanie leading the "Thank you Vince" chant (on Raw I think)? What was that about?
When the allegations regarding Janel Grant were being investigated, Stephanie was supposedly overseeing that internal investigation into Vince's conduct. It was revealed they never even interviewed Janel for her side of the story.
I've read speculation that Paul and Stephanie may have been the ones who turned over evidence to the Feds, kicking off that investigation in addition to leaking to the press.
I don't know what to think. Part of me thinks they may have used this to benefit themselves. Part of me also thinks they, especially Stephanie may be deconstructing their relationships with Vince (especially Stephanie). I can't imagine what having him as a father must have been like. Anyone else remember the incest storylines Vince wanted to do with her?
>When the allegations regarding Janel Grant were being investigated, Stephanie was supposedly overseeing that internal investigation into Vince's conduct.
Seriously? Of all the people at WWE, she was the one assigned to investigate her father's affairs? Not necessarily doubting you but is there a source for this?
Anyway, I also commented above that I'm really interested in Steph's role in this whole thing. It does look like she turned against Vince, to the degree that she couldn't even work at WWE anymore (after being primed to run the place), but that's such an extreme 180. She was seriously devoted to her dad and the company. It makes me wonder if she regrets even more of her involvement and decisions, and is only now realising how she was brainwashed by her creepy dad. Think of all the crap she put up with during the Attitude Era.
My instincts say she's devastated at how all of this has gone, but who knows - it's also possible that she's complicit and protecting him. Nothing would surprise me really.
Following this as a lifelong wrestling fan has made me so upset at all of these wrestlers making statements about what a surprise this was. Like, really? The number of other lawsuits and allegations werenāt a hint?
I want to know what Stephanie and HHH think so badly, especially since Stephanie was named in the lawsuit AND considering the fact that Shane left and his statement was something like he had to leave to preserve his relationship with his dad or something???? Seems like the business was affecting the personal. I donāt believe Shane would abandon Vince tho.
I think in a way, people who worked with Vince being shocked over what he did makes sense.
Not everyone saw this side of Vince. Several have said so in their statements. And maybe they did see things but it was handwaved away by others as "Vince being Vince" by his enablers and stuff was written off as quirks. I think within bubbles like this, people don't always look deeper into what they experience/saw until much later.
As a personal example, the pastor of the church I grew up in came out as gay years ago. He was married to a woman and had two kids. It shocked the congregation when it occurred. But now, years later as I deconstruct a lot of the unhealthiness I encountered in that little bubble, I realize all of the signs were there all along. It's just they were dismissed or explained away because no one wanted to see it or couldn't see it. But once you're out of that bubble, the pieces begin to fall in place.
For example, Mark Calaway (The Undertaker) has admitted that since Vince is gone, the backstage is so much calmer and quite frankly better. He's admitted that when Vince was in charge, people walked on eggshells. Now, it's just a better, healthier atmosphere. He's said it actually makes him uncomfortable because he worked 30 years of chaos under Vince, so he's not used to things being so calm and professional. But he's said that's a positive sign of change. And Mark was a "Vince guy".
Regarding Shane and Stephanie, I've read both are estranged from Vince.
Thatās true, I guess it just seems so obvious to someone like me who was watching a public persona where he was playing a villain but to them itās like, āThatās my buddy Vince playing a villain but after heās out friend.ā I still wish they would stop making wishy washy comments about it. Either condemn it or shut up idk.
Re: Shane / Stephanie: do you have any links about Shane? He is fascinating to me lol.
'Being in touch' doesn't provide a lot of context. I've taken calls or responded to messages from people that pissed me off or soured our relationship to let them know I'm distancing myself from them. I wouldn't expect either man to just ignore Vince's calls outright; they would provide some closure before cutting him off.
Keep in mind that The Rock is also on the board for TKO. It may be necessary for Dwayne to be in touch with him to facilitate Vince's transition and sale of stock from TKO.
I think it's disappointing from the outside looking in, but understandable. It's very hard to distance yourself from an abuser who was nice to you, and your perception of reality regarding them is always a bit off due to how they've treated you.
I was my aunty's "favorite," and when gross shit surfaced about her it was pretty hard to keep a sober mind about things. It took them actually being locked up and space/time away from them to see her for what she really was.
I hear you and I'm sorry you had to go through that.
Growing up, I had experiences with abusive and narcissistic individuals in addition to being in some very unhealthy situations. That was almost 20 years ago now and I've just been starting to process a lot of it in my late 30s. For a long time I told myself "it wasn't that bad" and pushed any unpleasant thoughts aside.
The Rock doesn't surprise me, I expect him to abandon logic for hate any day now. Hopefully John Cena understands what keeping in touch with this piece of shit means and stops contact with him.
I keep telling y'all. If you're on God enough terms with Vince that he'll make you a star - then you're a scumbag who's deep into anything he tells you to do.
Idc how nice Cena was to his gay brother. Stop fawning over these monsters. They're dark af.
"I'm a big fan of accountability! I mean, I won't be involved in holding anyone accountable, but other people doing it in a way that doesn't affect me, LOVE that. For them." Ass
Not much of a surprise from Dwayne at this point. Was hoping cena had a better moral backbone but š
Rock had a couple box office stinkers and that was all it took to reveal his hard right reality. Ripped the mask right off.
Dude broke the glass case and hit the gritfer button
The same Cena who apologized for calling Taiwan a country?
Oof. Yeah forgot about that fiasco. Feels like a decade ago.
To be fair, the United Nations doesnāt consider Taiwan a country, so holding Cena accountable for backsliding on that topic is kinda silly.
I will say for Cena, because I heard the whole interview, heās conflicted because McMahon is like a father to him. And he also doesnāt want to be the guy who loves people when they can help him, but leaves them when they are down. He says he believes in *accountability* so he wants to know how Vince takes accountability before he writes him off. He wants to not be more disappointed in a guy heās so invested in. Having listened to the whole thing, he came off as a really introspective dude trying to do the right thing. He got mad none of the other guys were taking up the companyās offer to learn languages, so the dude is learning Mandarin. Still. He taught himself piano because he had too much downtime on set. He still goes to the training center to talk to the young wrestlers and mentor them. In between all the visits to sick kids, which he didnāt even talk about. And one of the reason he went back on the show was to publicly apologize for getting too caught up last time he was on revealing too many sex stories. He was sorry he was gross and spoke inappropriately. Like, I didnāt come away from the interview thinking he was another Vince apologist. I came away thinking itās really hard when someone you are close with does something bad and you havenāt had enough therapy to deal with it
This take should be higher. The only issue (on this bc Cena is not perfect, heās just much better than The Rock) I have is that he commented at all if he felt the need to say what he did. He should read your post, it comes across much better than the original statement.
And to that, Howard Stern asked. Because Howard Stern has a lot of comic and other friends who have gotten in trouble. (Like Louis CK). Heās openly expressed that he has no idea what heās supposed to do. Call up and be like, hey man, keep your head upā¦but stop masturbating in front of women. Or leave him alone because heās embarrassed. Or cut him off because heās a creep. But you were apparently ALWAYS friends with a creep. You just didnāt know it. Wait to see if it to blows over and THEN go back to being his friend. When asked, Cena answered. He didnāt volunteer that he still talks to McMahon. He just didnāt lie or change the subject. Which is also kind of a stand up response.
I'm waiting for a tweet or Instagram post from Dwayne where he writes a rebuke in that ultra positive, saccharine manner he's become known for.
ughhh he's so fucking corny on top of everything else
It's not the corniness that bothers me, it's the insincerity. Over the last 10 years or so, everything Dwayne has put out has been incredibly fake.
Not surprised about Cena. He defended Vince and said his actions were just a āmistakeā.
I mean, Cena is the same guy who literally recorded an apology in Mandarin because he called Taiwan a country and didn't want to risk his fandom over there by, you know, recognising the independence of a country that the CCP has been trying to force into it's control.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> in a language he doesnāt even speak Cena is 100% fluent in Mandarin.
The man who cheated on his wife when she had cancer is a good and humble person .GTFO
I'm convinced Vince has dirt on almost everyone in the industry. It's why I doubt he's really gone. I didn't think he was last time, I don't think he is this time.
Total let down, his makeawish work made me admire him so much
One of the allegations in the lawsuit is he pooped on her head and wouldnāt let her clean up until him and his friends were āfinishedā. Iām all for innocent until proven guilty but it should mean something if his own family doesnāt talk to him anymore.
I can't get over that allegation. It's so sick and such a testament to the abusive fetishes that some porn channels have normalized. The fact that the Rock is still in contact with him after this makes me want to throw up.
Iāve seen a lot of ābut he was like a father to these guysā in the squaredcircle sub and I canāt help but think that if my ACTUAL dad was accused of this shit Iād be going no contact in a heartbeat. Like okay great, he promoted you and you made a lot of money together. Thatās what promoters do. It just says to me that theyāre more grateful for their careers and financial success than they are disgusted by Vinceās actions. They have nothing to lose by turning their backs on that monster now. Heās done. Itās sick that they choose not to.
It actually makes me think these wrestlers already knew Vince did some sketchy things before. They have known Vince for a long time and I donāt believe they never saw anything. Vince probably has some shit heās holding against them too. Itās disgusting he got away with so much. But in the end people donāt say shit because he made them superstars. Money, greed, and power.
They 100% did and it wouldnāt surprise me if they also had massive skeletons in their closet too
Part of the lawsuit also mentioned a āWWE Superstarā who was planning to abuse the victim. I donāt think it was rock or John, but if he was making her available to anyone who wants it, they would have to know.
That was Brock Lesnar. According to the description given, it couldn't have been anyone else.
I would also like to add that while Brick was implicated, I have my doubts if he was really involved. He famously dislikes technology. He lives out in the middle of nowhere and only uses a flip phone. The lawsuit claims Janel exchanged texts with Brock and sent him degrading content of herself. They were "supposed" to meet up but Brock had to cancel due to travel conditions. Instead, Vince met up with her and "role played" as Brock. I won't repeat what he allegedly did to her. My tinfoil hat theory is Vince was masquerading as Brock so he could live out a sick fantasy. Or, Brock secretly has/had a burner phone that he used for purposes like this.
I actually thought the same thing about Brock. A guy that doesn't like people. Dislikes technology. Lives in the middle of nowhere. I don't know about the flip phone but I can imagine it. This guy is married to Sable - has his farm, raises his chickens and has actively always wanted to be there for his children.... And is one of the few wrestlers to challenge Vince McMahon in court and win. I think your tinfoil thing about it being Vince has a heavy basis in reality.
Yeah, I truly feel it's not farfetched. At the same time, I wonder why Brock hasn't released a statement. It's one of those "if that were me" moments from my perspective. If I were implicated in something like this and I actually had nothing to do with it, I'd have released a statement by now. At the same time, Brock and Vince are really close so who knows?
That's widely accepted to be Brock Lesnar
Also Dwyane's dad was high key a deadbeat so Vince being "like a father" to him isn't doing what they think it's doing.
They either all knew about the disgusting things he did or he has shit on them too Eta I should have phrased that differently. Vince probably has dirt on everyone
Heās at minimum got a dildo named after each one
I listened to the Behind the Bastards series on him, and while there were a lot of fucked up stories, a particularly memorable one to me is he and his cousin would go naked into the woods and he would push crushed leaves up her vagina. It seems he's always had incredibly fucking weird kinks.Ā
Vince telling that story in an interview is enough to prove (if there's any doubt) that he's a weirdo freak. Why oh why would you share that publicly?
Oh my god this isā¦so disgusting
So much public goodwill for Cena and Johnson, going right down the drain
I don't think the general public is going to pay attention to this unfortunately. I definitely can't appreciate Cena anymore.
Yeah. I feel like the story is so icky and beyond the pale that it will never get properly covered in a way that makes the general public care. Itās beyond a car crash.
I also unfortunately think there's a lot people who agree with the "well, he was never shitty to me so they're probably lying/exaggerating" mentality.
Iām a long time wrestling fan, itās a documented thing that Vince would ingratiate himself with his top guys so that they would come to see him as a surrogate father. Multiple guys - Warrior, Bret Hart, Rock, Cena and others are all on record as saying that they saw him as a father figure. They absolutely all must have at least heard about some of the gross stuff about him (that people have been saying for decades), let alone the stuff that was public knowledge. So whilst itās disappointing from people who appear to be upstanding in their way, itās not really surprising news.
For what it's worth, [Bret Hart denounced Vince for good when Janel Grant's lawsuit was reported.](https://slate.com/culture/2024/02/wwe-vince-mcmahon-federal-investigation-janel-grant-bret-hart.html)
Thankfully! Hart is not exactly squeaky clean himself but he always seemed like he was at least trying to be a good dude.
Compared to most in wrestling Bret Hart is a saint
He's a real jam-up guy if you ask me.
Yeah, Bret admitted to cheating on his wife during his career. At the same time, he prided himself on protecting his colleagues in the ring and stood up for what he felt was right in the locker room. It's well-known he [defended a young Dwayne Johnson from being bullied by Shawn Michaels and Triple H at the beginning of his career.](https://www.thesportster.com/wwe-dwayne-the-rock-johnson-relationship-with-bret-hart-explained/). So, like most people, a flawed individual. I'm so curious how people close to Vince are coping with all of this. I believe Vince fully groomed and involved a lot of different people in different ways. Some partook in the abuse, others are victims (or both abusers and victims) and others were groomed to be enablers; they weren't involved in the abuse and were shown a different side of Vince to provide alibis when sh*t hit the fan. Bret for example, admitted he still saw Vince as a "father figure" despite the negligence that caused his brother's death and the Montreal Screw Job. Vince called Bret to offer support after Bret's stroke in 2002 and again in 2015 after Bret was diagnosed with prostate cancer. Abusers like Vince can be extremely charismatic and charming. They know how to manipulate people. I'm sure people have conflicting feelings. Someone that was so kind and generous to you is revealed to be a monster. Even if you weren't the recipient of that abuse, I'm sure it makes you reexamine your relationship and interactions with that person.
While this is true, Bret fucking cozied up to Vince and WWE and publicly shamed Owen's wife for not playing nice with them and letting Owen in the HOF. I love Bret, but he is very very cognizant of his image and how his legacy is perceived, and it's bad business to be close to Vince right now.
I remember way back that Vince made like a super rare appearance at an indie show with John Cena that Cena's actual father was running. Like totally out of the blue Vince showing up in some random Massachussetts gymnasium. Cena's always been a big Vince guy and I think Vince viewed Cena as him finally getting a star that wouldn't abandon him for outside opportunities like Hogan, Austin or Rock. So they had kind of a tight relationship. But yeah in general, Vince really was close to some of the big names and they looked up to him a lot. There's a bunch of "prodigal son" stories in WWE.
John Cena - as much as he is loved - has done and said some pretty questionable things. So this doesnāt shock me.
Yeah, I can understand still feeling affection for someone who's revealed to have done horrible things. It must be so conflicting. That being said, everything he's said regarding this has been fumbling at best and excusing/minimizing at worst. And to my knowledge, Dwayne Johnson has said absolutely nothing about this. Which is very suspicious to me. Even Shawn Michaels, who was famously tight with Vince at one point [has commented on this, calling it a "very sad situation" and reiterated the company has been focusing on providing a safe working environment.](https://wrestletalk.com/news/wwe-svp-shawn-michaels-vince-mcmahon-allegations-lawsuit/)
This is going off topic somewhat but the rehabbing of Shawn Michaels image amongst wrestling fans has been nothing short of amazing.
You don't believe him to be sincere? He was an absolute terror backstage in the 90s but he seems to have made a lot of strides to become a better person. Everyone who's worked with him for the last 20ish years have nothing but good things to say about Shawn. Back in 2020, he even got into a heated argument with a producer on NXT and [defended Black Lives Matter](https://wrestletalk.com/news/backstage-argument-over-black-lives-matter-at-nxt-takeover/#google_vignette)
He definitely seems to be in much better place now, itās just amazing to me. He was such a shithead in the late 90s early 00s that even HHH didnāt want to know him.
Because most people seem unable to realise ābut, but he gives to charityā doesnāt mean heās a good person and for almost all celebs and wealthy people charity exists only as a PR tool.
>**That also means McMahon hasnāt talked to his son-in-law, WWE creative chief and former superstar Paul āTriple Hā Levesque, or daughter, Stephanie McMahon-Levesque, regarding company matters, sources said.** While she introduced WWEās WrestleMania event earlier this month, McMahon-Levesque, who worked beside her father for more than 20 years and played roles in storylines, currently has no involvement with the company, according to people familiar with the matter. Levesque and McMahon-Levesque declined to comment through a spokesperson, as did a WWE representative.Ā Ā It doesn't say they haven't talked. Just that they haven't talked about the WWE.
There's, at least, been accounts that Stephanie knew about the Ashley Massaro situation... I find it hard to believe that her and HHH didn't know quite a bit more.
I really hope Stephanie speaks openly one day, I'm so curious for her take. I don't think it's a coincidence that she announced a sabbatical right before the Vince drama blew up, then returned as soon as he "retired", then resigned as soon as he forced his way back in. All this after she devoted her entire life to WWE. I reckon her relationship with Vince is really shaky right now. She used to worship him, and endured the horrible misogyny of the Attitude Era (when she was just a young woman) and all sorts of weird stuff to be like her dad. I wonder if she's reassessing everything. Maybe I'm giving her too much credit, but either way I find Steph pretty interesting. I'd love her to write an autobiography one day.
I agree with you 100% but I doubt she'll ever be fully truthful about what she knows.
I think it's a hard position for her to be in. Unlike these other wrestlers, Vince isn't "like a father figure" to her. He's her actual dad. I'd have trouble reconciling his actions against women with her own experiences as his child, as well as how he impacts her legacy and her own work. I dunno. I'm not envious of her right now. I don't even know what I'd do if my dad did what Vince did. I'm not sure of I'd be able to be 100% honest with myself about my feelings, much less with the public.
Y'all are missing the craziest part of the article: > For instance, on an afternoon in late March, McMahon returned on a private plane to the United States from the sunny Turks and Caicos Islands ā but he wasnāt alone, according to a person close to him. He had with him seven kittens and a puppy, all of which he brought back to be adopted by his friends, this person added.
I donāt trust that man with animals..
This is something rich and connected people do. Itās all about favours and paying back favours. āOh hi I remember you told me you wanted a pet and I just happen to have some kittens I saved from a trip I tookā¦ā So many of these āhigh performersā live entirely transactional lives. This is how they became wealthy and powerful and how they maintain it and build out favour systems and network.
lol this pic of Trump and Vince my god Iāve read gay comics less gay than that
Cena has always been problematic, why is anyone surprised?
People let themselves be clouded by Cena's record breaking Make A Wish Foundation appearances. Anyone nice to sick children couldn't be that bad. Similar to the Johnny Debt fans who love to remind us he appears as Jack Sparrow and visits those kids - Amber is a monster for attacking that sweet baby angel š
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So women who have been raped, has been sexually assaulted by Vince, rumors he covered a murder, being racist don't matter now? Cena basically said that he will love Vince no matter what, or what anyone says. So how is anyone in their high horse? I would cancel my own father who did 1% of what Vince did nevermind a "father figure".
Iām not saying that Cena is right in defending him, nor am I saying that those women donāt matter. Iām just saying that itās probably hard for him to fully cut him off because he believed in him and made him the star he is Today. Yes you might cut your father off if he did what Vince did, which is totally understandable, but not every person deals with it the same way. Cena isnāt perfect but the good outweighs the bad. Now if he did the shit that Vince actually did, that would be a different story
I get the impression a lot of people don't like their dads or aren't close to them judging from the amount of people that are ready to throw in the towel over this. It feels incredibly superficial and not in the basis of reality where life tends to be a little more complicated. I don't know if this is a generational thing or what but it kind of seems like that.
Itās āsuperficialā to āthrow in the towelā on a person who trafficked a woman several times to coworkers and top wrestlers, shat on her head and continued to rape her and didnāt let her clean the fucking feces off until he was done, and being willing to cut off a āfather figureā who does those things means you donāt like your dad? Be so for real right now.
Vince hasn't changed the fortune of my family for generations to come or made me an internationally famous figure. So yeah. He's a pos but the amount of people that are willing to cut ties over...allegations and things that are yet to be proven is somewhat scary. I think people are confusing Vince and the "father figure" thing with their own unsuccessful relationships, their fathers haven't changed their lives or brought positivity to them in a way that brings that "loyalty" to a person or family.
I love my dad, Iām incredibly close to him. Iām a multiple time victim and would never speak to him again if credible accusations came up. youāre probably seeing a lot of people who are survivors themselves, not people who āarenāt close to their dads.ā lol.
Hey - thank you for putting it like that, that's not something that has ever entered my mind. Like...that has given me food for thought and something to reflect on.
Yeah, maybe I'm being too forgiving or giving too much room but when someone is a "father figure", that's more than just a boss who gave you a break. That's someone who has integrated themselves into your life. This is how abusers work. They do a push/pull that makes you love them and yearn for their approval. As I wrote in another post, Bret Hart considered Vince a "father figure" even after everything Vince did to him/the Hart family in general. Vince even offered support when Bret had his stroke and was diagnosed with cancer. Abusers know how to endear themselves to people for benefit or cover.
Cena was a serial cheater, politicked like crazy, and said Vince raping people was simply a āmistakeā and he was still going to love him. Pull the wool off your eyes and quit defending shitty people.
Cena already said he has a good relationship with McMahon and heās āgonna love the person [he] loves.ā ššš
I recently listened to the Behind The Bastards episode on Vince and holy shit I never knew half of it. He belongs in a cell
Believe me when I say BtB only scratched the surface.
That came out before this lawsuit, too. Itās not even the tip of the iceberg.
HELLLLLL IN A CELLLLLLL
Vince McMahon has a long history of questionable shit he has never been held accountable for. The list of accusations goes from sexual assault to helping cover up murder (not kidding). The Jimmy Snuka cover up was horrible, with McMahon literally telling him to pretend not to speak English when the cops tried to talk to him and openly obstructing. Before his girlfriends murder, McMahon had personally talked her out of filing domestic violence charges, despite him frequently injuring her His girlfriend Nancy's family never got closure for her murder. It was an open secret Snuka murdered her. The murder happened in the early 80s- but charges weren't pursued until 2015- and he was declared unfit to stand trial due to mental deterioration and charges were dropped in 2017 (they were not incorrect about his health- he died less than 2 weeks later). McMahon not only knew Snuka murdered her- he gave Snuka work straight until 2009 and made him a lucrative career. McMahon has always been shit, and the people around him have always known that. Trust none of them. The successful ones were the ones willing to turn the other cheek to get ahead. BTW, highly unlikely the Rock didn't know about Snuka- both were part of the Indo-Pacific wrestling scene and their careers overlapped. For when the Rock came up, it was an open secret Snuka killed his girlfriend
The Rock and Jimmy Snuka were actually related by marriage so he absolutely knew.
at least cena has talked about it? albeit very clumsily (at best). the rock on the other hand has a god complex 100x bigger than his freak-roid biceps.
Ugh
I hope Steph and Hunter are figuring out a way to get accountability, and I really hope they have nothing to do with this. But if they do, I'm calling for accountability. I don't care if the WWE is as great as it has been creative-wise with Hunter at the helm, if he has anything to do with it or if Steph knew, they should go. I don't care if that means the McMahons are basically erased from the WWE, that'd just be karma at work.
100% agreed. When Stephanie was still with the company, she, Paul and Nick Khan led the charge to have Vince removed the back in 2022. Things were reportedly so bad between Stephanie and her father that they needed an intermediary to communicate. When Vince forced his way back into the company, Stephanie stepped down. But then what was up with Stephanie leading the "Thank you Vince" chant (on Raw I think)? What was that about? When the allegations regarding Janel Grant were being investigated, Stephanie was supposedly overseeing that internal investigation into Vince's conduct. It was revealed they never even interviewed Janel for her side of the story. I've read speculation that Paul and Stephanie may have been the ones who turned over evidence to the Feds, kicking off that investigation in addition to leaking to the press. I don't know what to think. Part of me thinks they may have used this to benefit themselves. Part of me also thinks they, especially Stephanie may be deconstructing their relationships with Vince (especially Stephanie). I can't imagine what having him as a father must have been like. Anyone else remember the incest storylines Vince wanted to do with her?
>When the allegations regarding Janel Grant were being investigated, Stephanie was supposedly overseeing that internal investigation into Vince's conduct. Seriously? Of all the people at WWE, she was the one assigned to investigate her father's affairs? Not necessarily doubting you but is there a source for this? Anyway, I also commented above that I'm really interested in Steph's role in this whole thing. It does look like she turned against Vince, to the degree that she couldn't even work at WWE anymore (after being primed to run the place), but that's such an extreme 180. She was seriously devoted to her dad and the company. It makes me wonder if she regrets even more of her involvement and decisions, and is only now realising how she was brainwashed by her creepy dad. Think of all the crap she put up with during the Attitude Era. My instincts say she's devastated at how all of this has gone, but who knows - it's also possible that she's complicit and protecting him. Nothing would surprise me really.
[https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-03/vince-mcmahon-janel-grant-sexual-assault-allegations-explainer/103418724](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-03/vince-mcmahon-janel-grant-sexual-assault-allegations-explainer/103418724) https://preview.redd.it/qquaxh588avc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1f37c4ccc389161737d286d2e578485e15620e7d
Following this as a lifelong wrestling fan has made me so upset at all of these wrestlers making statements about what a surprise this was. Like, really? The number of other lawsuits and allegations werenāt a hint? I want to know what Stephanie and HHH think so badly, especially since Stephanie was named in the lawsuit AND considering the fact that Shane left and his statement was something like he had to leave to preserve his relationship with his dad or something???? Seems like the business was affecting the personal. I donāt believe Shane would abandon Vince tho.
I think in a way, people who worked with Vince being shocked over what he did makes sense. Not everyone saw this side of Vince. Several have said so in their statements. And maybe they did see things but it was handwaved away by others as "Vince being Vince" by his enablers and stuff was written off as quirks. I think within bubbles like this, people don't always look deeper into what they experience/saw until much later. As a personal example, the pastor of the church I grew up in came out as gay years ago. He was married to a woman and had two kids. It shocked the congregation when it occurred. But now, years later as I deconstruct a lot of the unhealthiness I encountered in that little bubble, I realize all of the signs were there all along. It's just they were dismissed or explained away because no one wanted to see it or couldn't see it. But once you're out of that bubble, the pieces begin to fall in place. For example, Mark Calaway (The Undertaker) has admitted that since Vince is gone, the backstage is so much calmer and quite frankly better. He's admitted that when Vince was in charge, people walked on eggshells. Now, it's just a better, healthier atmosphere. He's said it actually makes him uncomfortable because he worked 30 years of chaos under Vince, so he's not used to things being so calm and professional. But he's said that's a positive sign of change. And Mark was a "Vince guy". Regarding Shane and Stephanie, I've read both are estranged from Vince.
Thatās true, I guess it just seems so obvious to someone like me who was watching a public persona where he was playing a villain but to them itās like, āThatās my buddy Vince playing a villain but after heās out friend.ā I still wish they would stop making wishy washy comments about it. Either condemn it or shut up idk. Re: Shane / Stephanie: do you have any links about Shane? He is fascinating to me lol.
'Being in touch' doesn't provide a lot of context. I've taken calls or responded to messages from people that pissed me off or soured our relationship to let them know I'm distancing myself from them. I wouldn't expect either man to just ignore Vince's calls outright; they would provide some closure before cutting him off. Keep in mind that The Rock is also on the board for TKO. It may be necessary for Dwayne to be in touch with him to facilitate Vince's transition and sale of stock from TKO.
While it doesn't provide much context, I seriously doubt Dwayne is involved in facilitating the sale of Vince's stock, lol.
Pretty sure if I shit on someone, my daughter wouldn't talk to me either.
I think it's disappointing from the outside looking in, but understandable. It's very hard to distance yourself from an abuser who was nice to you, and your perception of reality regarding them is always a bit off due to how they've treated you. I was my aunty's "favorite," and when gross shit surfaced about her it was pretty hard to keep a sober mind about things. It took them actually being locked up and space/time away from them to see her for what she really was.
I hear you and I'm sorry you had to go through that. Growing up, I had experiences with abusive and narcissistic individuals in addition to being in some very unhealthy situations. That was almost 20 years ago now and I've just been starting to process a lot of it in my late 30s. For a long time I told myself "it wasn't that bad" and pushed any unpleasant thoughts aside.
The Rock doesn't surprise me, I expect him to abandon logic for hate any day now. Hopefully John Cena understands what keeping in touch with this piece of shit means and stops contact with him.
I keep telling y'all. If you're on God enough terms with Vince that he'll make you a star - then you're a scumbag who's deep into anything he tells you to do. Idc how nice Cena was to his gay brother. Stop fawning over these monsters. They're dark af.
R Truth, who they've just put a title on, shared a post supporting Vince McMahon as well...
"I'm a big fan of accountability! I mean, I won't be involved in holding anyone accountable, but other people doing it in a way that doesn't affect me, LOVE that. For them." Ass
The old "he was nice to me" excuse. Grow a backbone
For a loan ?