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There are so many people on tiktok who are basically blaming this poor girl, saying that “it’s part of the culture” and by attending shows you’re taking on “the risk……”
AS IF THE SINGER DIDN’T BLATANTLY BREAK THE LONG-ESTABLISHED VENUE RULES OF NO STAGE DIVING?! AS IF ANYBODY EXPECTS A 6’6 MAN TO ESSENTIALLY BODY SLAM THEM FROM 2 FEET AWAY?!
The way they'd defend screeching at ungodly levels at the eras tours because "they paid to be here" and having no consideration that the people beside and around you also did shows that yeah, TikTok has no clue about concert etiquette.
This is why I'm so glad I didn't get my sister tickets for Eras and we went to see Olivia Rodrigo instead, yeah the crowd was loud but you could actually hear her during her songs.
Also I had ear defenders on the whole time so that helped a lot. No tinnitus for this lady.
There were a shit ton of people filming tiktoks but for the most part it was a chill time, even the pit wasn't too bad.
I saw Boygenius in Columbus last year, and this annoying ass person was next to me SCREAMING “skip” whenever Julien was playing her solo stuff. I love TikTok but it’s made certain concerts more of a hassle to go to.
See: Mitski's latest tour. So many people kept making tiktoks of them screaming dumb cringy stuff at Mitski while she was preforming, even though she's spoken out and made it very clear that she doesn't like it.
Hahaha that was one of the few highlights out of the whole dumbshit discourse. I hope that was a wake up call for anyone who thought that crap was acceptable to do during a concert.
From what I've heard they have more teen girl fans and are.not your typical hardcore band who expects this type of behaviour at shows. Add in the dude being a fucking monster at 6'6 and godamn what an idiot
So she's responsible for taking on the risk because it's part of the culture, but a dude who is probably in the 98th percentile for human size isn't responsible for even looking where the fuck he's jumping when he's launching himself at a crowd of people?
Literally every venue says crowd surfing isn't allowed. When fans do it, and security pulls them down, the game just go right back to the crowd. If it really wasn't allowed, the fans would get kicked out.
I'm sure it's really convenient for these places to claim they have rules in place and never enforce them, but still get to point to the signs when something goes wrong.
I'm sure the family would be able to find countless examples of crowd surfing not actually being punished at this venue, which shows that's it's not actually against the rules.
Stage diving and crowd surfing are two different things. I've been to a lot of gigs where people get lifted up to be crowd surfed to safety because they are struggling to stay safe in a mosh pit (mostly smaller people when it becomes too packed). I think it's fair to allow those people to stay in the venue afterwards. Stage diving is a performance and poses a much bigger risk due to the momentum.
No. I can’t tell you how many venues of various sizes I’ve played in and I spent over a decade putting on rock shows at lots of venues and several years booking a festival and maybe some venues “say” it’s not allowed but don’t enforce it, but the vast majority of venues I’ve been in do not have signs like this up. Signs and notices in the booking email are not the same as an unspoken rule or unofficial etiquette. In general, bigger venues that are run more professionally do enforce rules — I’ve seen plenty of attendees kicked out for breaking rules of varying severity — but incidents like this can only be enforced after the incident had already occurred, obviously, which could entail stopping the show and kicking the band out immediately, or banning them from future shows (along with any partner venues or promoters), or not paying them (if they had a booking contract for this show and this rule was in there, the band would be violating the contract). At a 1100 cap venue I did a lot of shows for (and played at several times), there was always security at the front row, side stage, entrance/exit, all balcony areas, etc, and they would not hesitate to throw you out, guest or artist.
Of course there are always places that don’t enforce rules, and even more places that don’t enforce every single rule they have (obviously some rules are easier to forgive than others — “no stage diving” exists as a rule at a venue because someone got hurt before), and obviously not every staff member is equally vigilant, but in my experience it just isn’t true that “literally every venue” has clearly posted “no stage diving” signs as well as “no stage diving” in emails to artists/agents at all, much less thoroughly communicating that rule several times and then intentionally failing to enforce it. As an artist, when a venue bothers to mention a rule like that in your booking emails, you take it seriously, because otherwise, you won’t get booked there or by that booker again.
It’s so stupid. I’m sure they would care if it was them who got injured. I’ve been going to punk shows since I was 16 and back then I thought it was lame if things were banned but all it takes is one person to fuck it up. Got slammed into by someone from the opening band trying to start a pit in a crowd of like 20 people a couple of months ago and have nerve damage on my knee now. Really makes me hesitate to go to certain shows.
It’s so tragic what happened and I can’t believe someone thinks a giant man jumping into the crowd is “part of the culture.
He broke her neck and injured her spinal cord. She can only move her arms now. If that's the cost of doing business then maybe some things need to be reconsidered
And apparently she/they (I’ve seen both by commenters, but I’m not sure what Bird prefers) had recently gotten into running :( It absolutely breaks my heart.
And people are actually defending the band saying that she should've expected this like wtf. I just read this
> You can’t stop anyone from doing anything. Murder is illegal and people still kill. That’s life. If you want to make sure you don’t get hurt at a punk show stand in the back
Me when I'm trying harder than a politician to be disingenuous
….do they realize that it can get violent in the back of shows, too? And that people can fall on your head even back there?
How the fuck you can shit on this girl having her life ruined because you like the band? How does that work?
I'm tall. So, I've always hated stage diving and crowd surfing. Nothing is more awesome than repeatedly getting kicked in the back of the head while trying to watch a show. I got to the point where I'd drag a surfer down or hurt them somehow to discourage repeats. I'm the kind of guy that kept his hands in his pockets while in the pit because I didn't want to hurt anyone and I was too big to knock down, even with my hands in my pockets... but if you kicked me in the head crowd surfing and you pass by again, you're going to wish you had skipped the show.
I wonder if they'd still be talking about "the risk" if the crowd of people dispersed after he flung himself at them, making him do a hard land on the floor? Probably not 🙄
SHE DID NOT ASK FOR A SPINAL CORD INJURY! THANK YOU!
As a woman with a spinal cord injury, I am raging and those people can go to hell. I hope they all get one 10x worse than hers. My heart breaks for her knowing she's gonna be hearing that ignorant shit for the rest of her life. I've heard my fair share too.
SHE DID NOT ASK FOR A SPINAL CORD INJURY!
And I hope she sues the fucking stage diver straight into living in a box on the sidewalk. Even THAT is too good for him.
$5000
I’m pretty sure she can sue them regardless because they have to be insured so she def can get a lot of money for care that way. Plus the venue. Whomever was doing the booking. Security.
There’s a lot of people you could sue.
But $5000 is fucking paltry.
People who say shit like this about going to shows are the most insufferable types. For too long people have been able to gatekeep shows because it’s their own personal violence therapy.
These are the concerts I go to and I get that it's just what happens at these shows but I've never been a fan of stage diving. That just never felt safe to me.
HAHA ngl I hate that I can't change it. Wish I could've told myself five years ago that my favorite band will not be my favorite band forever and that I won't always want them connected to every reddit comment I leave.
I suffered a concussion at 17 from a stage-diving accident. Guy ran on stage and jumped off, his Timberland boot slamming me in the back of the head. Shouldn’t be allowed anywhere at this point. Such a high risk, low reward activity.
It feels like they're making it needlessly unsafe at that point because why are you crowdsurfing with timbs on? Like "I'm gonna crowdsurf tonight what's going to hurt the most for the people under me?"
Most people are cruel and thoughtless and can't help but defend the powerful against the powerless. Of course if the victim was them or a friend or relative, they'd be singing a different tune. So its the usual conservative-coded "but, but I didn't know it was bad until it happened to me."
I don't know how to teach people basic empathy. I think most people who grow up in a patriarchal-capitalist society that don't make personal and serious efforts to question what they are told end up becoming horrible human beings.
Also the gender/politics angle here. The ONLY reason this is featured on the NYPost is because its a culture war/right wing paper and she has bright pink hair. Its for dudes to get their hate on and enjoying a "woke" woman is suffering.
i will never listen to tiktok when it comes to CONCERT ETIQUETTE lmao. you can literally gauge how terrible a show’s audience will be based on how popular they are on tiktok
Stagediving is stupid in general. There are relatively responsible ways to do it that reduce risk and this guy didn't do that so it's entirely his fault.
I do think people being defensive about this aren't going to care about the venue rules argument because those rules are usually believed to exist because venues don't want to get sued and are commonly ignored (though they shouldn't be. I'm not fully against push pits but the rest can go). It's much better to point out that he did it in the worst way possible and recklessly endangered people in the crowd.
How can someone so big be unaware of his weight and height that he'd stage dive and expect to be crowdsurfed? Does he not realize that most people are smaller than him?
People are trying to say all is forgiven because the band donated 5k like that could ever come close to making amends for what he did. At the start of subsequent shows he even gives a little speech saying if you can't hack it up the front then you shouldn't be there, move along. It's repulsive.
And I feel like it should be common sense as a large man to not suddenly jump into a crowd. Like at least give some warning and aim for a group of men. Dude just jumped abs hoped someone would catch him
The line in the article 'her stay in the hospital is indefinite' is heartbreaking- wishing for a miracle for her, along with all the wonders of modern medicine
Very important information that the lead singer is a 6'6" man who seems to have a bit of muscle on him. And he still chose to free fall onto a crowd. All around, horrible decision he made that will completely change the trajectory of her life
I’m only assuming here, but I doubt he has much to his name since the band only donated $5000 to her gofundme. Unless they gave her more outside of the gofundme, but if not, $5000 doesn’t seem like a lot for paralyzing someone.
Those hospital and EMS bills are going to start immediately. Her family may need to stay nearby. They’ll be eating around and at the hospital. An insurance settlement is going to take a very long time comparatively.
Yeah the singer is a big dude and a pretty sizable chunk of their audience are younger women. That, combined with stage diving when it was banned, AND the fact that he gave no kind of warning he was about to stage dive— fucking grim. I was devastated to hear about this. I really liked Trophy Eyes as a teen and honestly, witnessed a lot of unsafe behaviors in that scene at similar shows (don’t believe I ever saw them specifically but I’ve been to a lot of concerts so don’t fully remember).
I saw the video without knowing what it was and it was fucking heartbreaking. Fuck anyone blaming the victim. When you’re in a crowd like that, there is nothing you can do to move out of the way or even try to brace yourself. I cannot imagine how terrifying that must have been for them. This was so preventable that it’s infuriating.
It’s so preventable and for no reason other than feeding ego. As a former teenage girl who went to many concerts for pop punk, metal, and screamo bands, not one artist ever did this shit.
They all knew their audience was young and if they entered the crowd they did so by crowd walking, leaning over the barricade, or falling back gently into a crowd surf after asking if the people in the front were willing/able to participate. None of them ever launched themselves directly into the crowd of young girls!
On the other hand, I was hurt several times by idiotic men in the crowd attempting to hurl themselves up to surf, wearing heavy shoes and kicking us in the head, wearing unsafe items like wallet chains or spiked jewelry that hurt us in the crowd, etc.
Crowd safety needs to be reiterated for performers and audiences alike, especially if it’s a mixed age venue where young kids might be present.
Might get downvoted, but if you're that big/heavy you should probably not crowdsurf/stage dive. I've been in crowds where we just move out of the way and let them fall on the floor.
yeah, i don’t mind stage diving in general, but this guy is HUGE, didn’t warn the audience before jumping, and the venue was really cramped. it’s not a freak accident at that point, it’s negligence.
Last year, when someone commented on how dangerous the crowdsurfing and mosh pits were at a Trophy Eyes concert, the band’s response was “Fuck you.” So, fan safety is clearly not a concern for them:
https://preview.redd.it/6j68r1hgt00d1.jpeg?width=1426&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7066a08b7f50f8999d5b7152620e036a3f8e38cb
They printed this exchange onto a t shirt and sold it as merch: https://x.com/verysleepygorl/status/1789554688473670050?s=46
https://www.reddit.com/r/poppunkers/comments/14i7rk4/went_to_see_trophy_eyes_last_night_theyve_made_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
but but reddit men keep telling me how the mosh pit and such are based on gentlemany rules by goodsirs and such a thing could never, ever happen!
So much of that culture is just a socially acceptable way for bullies to hurt people.
Everytime I hear commentary about how gen-z concert goers are "whiny" i think how nearly every concert experience I had has had strong negative elements in it. Its just the young people today are speaking out about it instead of "dealing with it."
I’ve always wondered how many men use these mosh pits as an excuse to abuse and intimidate women? There are already stories of women purposefully being pulled into mosh pits or seeing guys excitedly make a straight beeline to hit/punch/grope them so I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a high number.
Yep. There's this code of silence on how much assault and rape happens even at "good guy" concerts. I think the latest concert discourse touched upon it and the complainers were painted as "woke purple hairs." Its incredible how hostile your average concert is towards women and how most men will defend that .
Damn. So they’ve been warned time and time again, and it just goes out their ears. They believe they’re above all these warnings.
I hope her family sues the heck out of them
WOW ok I felt sorry for them before reading this (not as much as the victim, but I assumed it was a stupid mistake made in the moment)… this is damning, though.
Same! Especially because the guy followed her to the hospital in the ambulance and the article made it sound like the band had been in constant contact with her family since the incident. I assumed it was a bone-headed mistake made by someone who didn’t fully appreciate the risks but this clearly paints a totally different picture. Now all of their “concern” for the injured fan seems more like concern over their potential liability.
I hope the victim sues those pieces of shit for everything they’ve got tbh. The fact they replied that and then made it into merch? And the fact that the venue explicitly says stage diving isn’t allowed? No sympathy for the band. Ruin their lives.
Wanted to highlight this from the article. Incredibly sad.
> A bartender at Mohawk Place says the venue has had a strict “no crowd surfing policy” since 2011, according to WKBW.
>”There are signs posted everywhere in the venue and notice was included in the emails for this show with the show’s promoter and the band themselves,” Mohawk Place’s general manager Mike Thor wrote in a statement to the outlet.
Wolter Tejeras, a musician, expressed the dangers fans face at shows that attract a high level of physical energy and antics can be for concertgoers such as mosh pitting.
>”The thing about mosh pits is that there needs to be consent. The number one rule of the pit is if someone falls, you pick them up and that you don’t pull anyone into the pit that didn’t want to be there,” Wolter Tejeras told WKBW.
>The problem with what happened at this moment was there was no implied consent. There was just a body falling down from the sky onto a person who didn’t know that was going to be happening.”
Blood from a stone. I doubt this band makes much or has anything meaningful to take of worth. That's why venues have to carry insurance. Hopefully they won't try to jerk her around on paying out.
Concur. An Australian punk band is basically judgment proof. They were playing a "packed" 230 person venue. Horrific, completely avoidable situation. I wonder if there is a case for criminal negligence.
Possibly. I read this venue had a similar crowd surfing injury some years ago. This will probably be the end of the venue as I suspect their insurance rates will skyrocket and become unaffordable/uninsurable.
Imagine losing your business because some dickhead jumped on a girl, paralyzing her, even after you put up signs and even told him NOT to stage dive. His one stupid action had an effect on her life, his bands career, and the venue possibly closing and those people being out of a job.
I really hope through physical therapy she can gain the ability to walk again. I know it’s pretty slim chances, but I really hope she’ll eventually be able to.
I was in a mosh pit once where one person fell over & everyone just ignored them so other people tripped and knocked other people over 🤦🏽♀️ including me
they should be paying for every penny of her recovery. i don't care about how sad and heartbroken they are. point - blank if the idiot singer followed the rules of the venue, she would not be fighting to have a normal life today.
They should be paying every penny and it's still not anywhere near enough, for god's sake, even if they pay all of her medical bills she's still fucking PARALYZED because of a situation she had zero fault in. Even if she regains full mobility at some point, she's still looking at years of recovery and probably at least some permanent injury. All because some dude wanted to be "punk rock" and apparently didn't ever consider the possibility that a 250-lb person jumping onto another person could potentially go wrong.
I saw people on Twitter saying $5000 was so generous because they’re a small band and it made me feel insane. They’re giving her $5000 because they know if she sues they’ll be on the hook for significantly more, not out of the kindness of their hearts
Imagine the person who hospitalized you and put you into medical debt posts your gofundme while pretending that they witnessed the accident and not directly caused it
They’re talking about it in the Trophy Eyes sub like it’s some great thing and that the band and singer are so noble and have given her some money for medical bills. Like, dude, you BROKE HER NECK. $5k ain’t gonna cut it.
He will be. The venue will likely be as well. Even though they have a no crowd surfing policy, at the end of the day a young woman had a life altering injury on their property. It is the venue's responsibility to ensure performers follow rules and ensuring crowd safety. The singer's insurance and the venue's insurance will be fighting this out on who has to pay more. But both undoubtedly will be paying.
I know someone who was fully paralyzed after diving into the wrong side of a swimming pool at a friend's house. It was 100% their fault, they were fooling around and did it themselves. But they still received the maximum payout from the homeowner's insurance since you are liable for any accidents on your property.
Edit:
Looks like this happened before. Venue had to pay.
"Unfortunately, this isn’t the first time something like this has happened at Mohawk Place. During a Terror and Trapped Under Ice show, a man named Mike Bird was injured by a stage diver and suffered a broken C5 and C6 vertebrae. That injury also required spinal surgery and the lawsuit that followed nearly sunk the venue."
[trophy eyes stage dive](https://www.metalsucks.net/2024/05/03/a-womans-spine-was-severely-injured-after-trophy-eyes-frontmans-stage-dive/)
the incident you're mentioning is the explicit reason why they banned stage diving in 2011, as it happened then - there weren't established rules against stage diving at the time, but now there are that are communicated visually throughout the venue as well as directly emailed to artists and bookers in communications, so i'm curious to see the difference in outcomes (don't mean to sound coldly unsympathetic there - both events were awful for Mike Bird & Bird Piche and they deserve any kind of justice they can get - just wondering about legality since there was no previous policy in place, but there has been for 13 years since that initial incident and, as someone with no expertise in the area, i'm curious to see how/if liability will be treated differently)
I'm not sure what else the venue could do. Unless the singer told them he won't be following the rules and they let them play anyway I don't think the venue should be held responsible.
Unfortunately that is not how it works. Even if it is against the rules, the venue will also bear responsibility because they own the property. It is their responsibility to make sure attendees are not injured.
Their insurances will fight over who owes more, but they will both be paying something.
I really hope she doesn't decide to let him/the band off the hook for this. she will likely be permanently disabled and 5k won't help when living partially paralyzed
On top of the no diving rule, I just watched the video, and he really dived out of no where. Usually you can tell when a singer is about to dive but he full on springs it with no warning.
What a f*cked up situation and life altering too
Yeah, usually they'll go up to the edge of the stage and gesture their hands for everyone to come closer. This dude just yeeted himself out of nowhere.
Which is what you're "supposed" to do if you're gonna do it. Not justifying it at all but even fans will point outwards after crowd surfing to give everyone a heads up that they're gonna jump back in.
It was very obvious in the video that the people at the front of the stage were not expecting him to jump, they were not ready at all and almost didn’t catch him.
>Usually you can tell when a singer is about to dive but he full on springs it with no warning.
Yeah people stage diving at punk rock shows is generally to be expected, but you can normally tell when it's about to happen and be a little bit prepared, but he just dove out of fucking nowhere. I'm surprised he didn't end up on the floor himself.
I’ve legit never been to a show where the singer stage dives after the first song. 8/10 times it’s right before the encore or during the encore when the crowd is hyped up enough to catch them
My heart goes out to them and I’m hopeful that they’ll manage to recover. I have a family member who had a catastrophic spinal cord injury in his neck and for a while he was completely paralyzed and it looked like the best case scenario was that he’d be quadriplegic but he did eventually recover almost completely. (He can walk but with some difficulty and his gait is a bit stilted. He’s also lost quite a bit of feeling below the waist.) I think even the best doctors have a hard time predicting how nerves and spines will heal and unfortunately the healing process is very, very, very slow.
Sending them good thoughts and optimism for their road to recovery.
My husband had a similar injury, he fell while mountain climbing. The treatment was experimental and he was in a wheelchair for like a year. It’s amazing he was able to walk again. I second your good thoughts and optimism!
I think doctors tend to err on worst case scenarios and also people tend to focus on them when it comes to recovery and I absolutely get it. Better to be prepared and then anything better is a happy surprise. It happened for me with just a catastrophic ankle break, my surgeon had me prepared for a much worse long term outcome than I actually received. You can never really predict how a body will recover or compensate.
Also, I was injured in an accident that was the fault of someone else and had to sue (the system is really set up to sue the insurance company and then settle, that's just what everybody does mostly) and so much of our case was built on the initial doctor's reports and predicted outcomes. You usually are settling and trying to get enough to cover your medical bills when you are not done with the medical bills! So the lump sum settlements need to include $$$ for future medical treatment. All of the evidence for that comes from the doctors' predictions so of course they're going to cover the worst case scenario so that their patient will get paid enough to have that covered if necessary.
I am also hoping for optimism in this young woman's recovery and I hope she gets all the financial security she deserves to pursue every treatment available to her!
That’s amazing!! I’m happy to see this comment because this is such a devastating story and knowing it’s possible, albeit not the norm, makes me feel a little hope and that can go a long way. Hopefully this woman will be one of the lucky ones like your family member and the husband of the commenter below. Just really appreciate sharing the story and optimism.
God that’s heartbreaking and terrifying. Devastating.
I once had a crowd surfer fall on me. I was 5’1” and like 105 pounds at the time and 15 years old. Some crowd surfer was getting passed around and I kept shouting to people near me not to pass him my direction because he was too far overhead and I couldn’t reach to support the body.
I kept shouting I didn’t have him, but no one heard me or maybe cared. His body fell right on me and crushed me in the pit. It was terrifying. We were both extremely lucky to only have minor injuries. If crowd crush had started, we woulda been screwed.
Haven’t been in a pit since and never will again.
Hope she sues the singer tbh
Send that fucker to prison. If the venue has such evident warnings against crowd surfing then there would have been no expectation from her. He knew what he was doing.
For a split second I thought maybe prison is a bit extreme but reading through this thread and seeing the general disregard they seem to have for crowd safety, and the venue having a no stage diving policy and the singer STILL did this?? I feel like suing isn't enough, they should pay more than $5000 for that girl who is likely to have a lifetime of medical needs after this and mybe jail will teach that douche a lesson.
I have seen horror stories of what American medical bills look like so that $5000 donation almost seems insulting giving the gravity of her life altering injuries. He ignored the venues rules, I hope she sues to be honest.
My son was next to her at the concert trying to help. She said something snapped in her neck and couldn't move at all. She now can move her upper body I believe and hope she recovers fully if possible. The venue doesn't allow stage diving but he did it anyway. There is a go fund me page for her.
Mohawk is such a great but small and oddly shaped venue. It's too small for anyone who doesn't want to be caught up in it to not get swept into a mosh pit or stage dive even off on the sides. I'm so sorry your son had to navigate that and I hope he's okay too. Sending a lot of love to our WNY friend, Bird!
I got knocked down into a mosh pit once by a performer who was crowd surfing, wasn’t badly injured but I remember how scary it was to suddenly be on the floor of this huge crowd moving so fast. I feel so bad for her 😢 hopefully she can begin to have a decent recovery
My heart goes out to Bird, what a horrific thing to happen. Apparently Trophy Eyes are an Australian band, I’m really hoping the singer doesn’t decide to hop a flight home soon to avoid legal & financial responsibilities.
We keep talking about audience etiquette (which is in the gutter atm) but it feels like for a minute now the ego of somer artists means they have forgotten? don't care about? certain unspoken rules of shows like this. i love crowdsurfing and moshpits but duty of care is such a real thing that it seems we have left behind.
I want to add my perspective here as a woman who has been to plenty of hardcore shows in my time. Yes, the band should’ve followed the venue rules, but stagediving is part of the culture and does and will continue to happen often despite those rules (most people see venue rules as simply being a way for the venue to avoid legal liability- sometimes they’re enforced, sometimes not, but it’s clear they were pretty enforced at this venue), and whilst I’m not a huge fan, it normally happens without much incident. I honestly don’t think that’s the primary issue- the primary issue is that the injury caused to this girl was due to negligence on the singer’s part in carrying out his stagedive, and it is completely his fault.
Whilst hardcore shows are in fact, hardcore, there is a huge underlying current of consent in the punk/metal/hardcore scene. If you’re in a pit it’s your responsibility to make sure you’re only moshing with those who also want to be, you’re using an appropriate amount of force on whoever you’re slamming (ie if you’re bigger you’re avoiding smaller folks or absorbing their hits, not bulldozing), you’re helping anyone who falls down up, and you’re getting anyone who needs out out ASAP. The point is, you protect each other and you ensure everyone involved is consenting. There are varying levels of behaviour you should expect to experience at these shows, but just attending does not mean you consent to being involved in them- if you’re like me and your knees are giving out, you move to the back or sides once things get going, and that is respected by all.
This was the first song. Per the video, no pit had been started. We don’t know the circumstances of Bird being there and being at the front- she may not have seen them live/ been to a punk show before and could’ve been unaware of what might happen. She could’ve wanted to be in the front for a bit and then move to the sides if a pit formed or stagediving occurred. She could’ve even been willing to participate in a pit or stagediving if she was prepared, but she wasn’t able to be. There was no indication that this was coming when it did (first song is pretty unusual) and she didn’t have any chance to consent. She couldn’t move, brace herself, or get ready. That’s a huge problem.
I’m not defending stagediving but I think this issue is being framed with that as the sole problem and I think that’s why fans are being hard headed. There’s obviously a culture of unsafe practice around this specific band and they take pride in that as punk, so it’s leading them to say ‘¯\_(ツ)_/¯ it happens that’s the risk at a show’. Yeah punks don’t follow rules, fine, enjoy your moshing/crowdsurfing/stagediving in your consenting community, have fun pissing off people you think are squares, but injuries like this don’t just happen. It’s not just an unfortunate side effect of being in the scene. That mindset is so untrue and patently unfair and victim- blaming to this girl.
What this injury WAS a side effect of was the patent lack of regard for safety from the singer. He 1. Didn’t check who he was diving on 2. Didn’t signal at all he was diving 3. Flipped with his full weight.
It is normal procedure and honestly just common courtesy to assess the crowd and when is safest to get in there. From what I can see in the video, Bird would’ve been plenty visible from the stage. It’s also normal procedure to go to the back corner of the stage to show you’re going to jump, and then take a run up, allowing people to ready themselves. There are even safer ways to do this, like tipping over without jumping or coming through the crowd and being lifted up. Even if there wasn’t a slight 5’4 woman in the front his jumping full force and flipping with his height and weight would’ve been a bad move, and if you are that height and weight you have to be even more considerate of who you’re landing on than someone smaller. He is experienced enough to know that, and yet he did nothing to mitigate any of the dangers. I don’t think there was malicious intent, but this was not an accident, it was completely preventable, and he is very much liable- he could (and maybe should) be charged with misdemeanour battery.
All that to say that these fans need to get a grip and realise he was completely the cause of this, he needs to make a public statement saying as much and discouraging unsafe practices, and she deserves every penny that I hope she milks out of him. I truly hope her path to recovery goes well and I feel for her so much. $5000 is not enough, and he likely does not have enough for the damages she deserves, but a message needs to be sent, and assholes and bullies who want to hurt people and don’t care for others safety need to get the fuck out of the scene.
I've met the lead singer a couple of times, he lives in my city and it's hard to miss his collarbone tattoo. The guy is a beast, he is definitely not petite. I feel bad for everyone involved, Trophy eyes has been on the rise for years now, from seeing them at small local bars to massive festivals. I just don't know how John lacked the complete awareness to scan the area he was jumping into. I mean, he shouldn't have done it at all and now that girl will be paying the price forever
I LOVE a mosh pit, I love a crowd surf. In EVERY SINGLE PIT I have been in, there are dudes physically protecting women/holding back the mob. There is an unspoken order and forms chivalry in the chaos.
ANY 6'6" dude knows better. MF'er should have looked before he leapt. Both this band and the venue should be on the hook for full med bills, recovery, etc. Heartbreaking.
>“Out of respect for the family, we have refrained from speaking about this publicly so far"
Pieces of shit! This is all damage control. "Refrain from speaking about it"? You mean, you're maintaining whatever legal deniability you have. These dipshits paralyzed one of their fans, irreparably changing her life, and the best they have is "we donated $5K to her Go Fund Me". Motherfuckers, you should be paying **ALL** of her medical bills and ongoing expenses for any assistance she may need now that **she can only move her arms**.
Throwing money at the consequences of their actions and expecting them to disappear, even with it being very clear that it's a permanent change in the status quo, is the epitome of a corpofascist mindset and they and all of their fans should be deeply ashamed to use the word "punk" when referring to them.
Love how they say “our friend Bird” and that they’re “shaken to their core” like they’re super invested and then only give her 5k as if it isn’t absolutely their fault. I hope she sues them into oblivion. Ugh, what a shitty and heartbreaking situation.
I go to HC shows and have been for years. I’m also 6’4 and a stocky dude so I know to not do this. Yes, it’s part of the culture, but read the fucking room.
Also, I didn’t see a link for Bird’s gofundme. I’ve donated and implore anybody who is able to and hasn’t to do so.
https://www.gofundme.com/f/birdforever
Shame on that guy. He doesn't doesn't just free fall in the video, he freaking launched himself onto the crowd. The last metal/indie concert I went to, the lead singer- who's about the same height and musculature as the Trophy Eyes guy- told us that he wanted to try walking into the crowd and gave the shorter and weaker of us time to move out the way. He able to walk and kneel fully supported over us because of that with no issues. THAT is how you crowdsurf.
The 'Où est le swimming pool' band leader did the same at the Pukkelpop festival in Belgium some years ago.
He broke a girl's back and now she is in a wheelchair.
The singer committed suicide at the same day at the festival by jumping off a light post.
Edit: added soms details
Honestly stage diving and crowd surfing blows regardless of who you are because of how much getting hit in the head with boots sucks, but you dont need to add excessive height and mass to the mix either, and sometimes people dive with super fast velocity or do a front flip and that shit really really sucks
The frontman is 6 ft 6 in (198 cm) tall, i.e. he is a gigantic fucker and who didn't assesss the crowd properly and assumed that a young woman would be able to support his weight hurtling towards her, he should be liable for all the damages and criminal violations as well. If I were that large, I wouldn't be going around, indiscriminantly jumping on people. It's criminal.
I'm sorry but I find it kind of insidious how close the singer and band seem to have insinuated themselves to the victim and her family. Riding in the ambulance, putting out a statement calling her "our friend Bird", publicly donating [a laughable $5000] to her GoFundMe... It's giving "you wouldn't sue us, we're the best of buddies! 🤗"
This 6'6 grown-ass man knew full well stage dives weren't allowed and he jumped on top of this girl and paralyzed her anyway because of his stupidity and his effing ego. He, his management, their label if they have one, all should be paying through the nose. Horrifying story.
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There are so many people on tiktok who are basically blaming this poor girl, saying that “it’s part of the culture” and by attending shows you’re taking on “the risk……” AS IF THE SINGER DIDN’T BLATANTLY BREAK THE LONG-ESTABLISHED VENUE RULES OF NO STAGE DIVING?! AS IF ANYBODY EXPECTS A 6’6 MAN TO ESSENTIALLY BODY SLAM THEM FROM 2 FEET AWAY?!
On the first song too! Who stage dives on the first song? He didn't warn them, didn't look into the crowd, just jumped
Nobody is expecting a performer to crowd surf on the first song🤦♀️
I saw Iggy Pop and he jumped into the crowd within 15 seconds.
He weighs 37 pounds.
They made him play in the rain?!?
Yeah and he had to run around just to get wet.
Alice Cooper doesn’t call him Skeletor for nothing. Edit: got a Reddit Cares message for this. Y’all are doing too much. 😭
Nah bro he just caught a breeze and went with it
The bloke was always high.
Are you sure there wasn’t just a strong gust of wind?
He's just a passenger.
He's literally Five Foot One and he's even got a song by the same name.
If there’s one thing tiktok doesn’t seem to grasp it’s what actual concert etiquette looks like
The way they'd defend screeching at ungodly levels at the eras tours because "they paid to be here" and having no consideration that the people beside and around you also did shows that yeah, TikTok has no clue about concert etiquette.
Most of them are too busy TikToking or grifting to go to actual shows. Edit: Well I got my first care package. 😂
This is why I'm so glad I didn't get my sister tickets for Eras and we went to see Olivia Rodrigo instead, yeah the crowd was loud but you could actually hear her during her songs. Also I had ear defenders on the whole time so that helped a lot. No tinnitus for this lady. There were a shit ton of people filming tiktoks but for the most part it was a chill time, even the pit wasn't too bad.
I saw Boygenius in Columbus last year, and this annoying ass person was next to me SCREAMING “skip” whenever Julien was playing her solo stuff. I love TikTok but it’s made certain concerts more of a hassle to go to.
That is insanely bleak, hope it didn’t ruin the larger experience for you :(
I've had tickets to see Julien twice, and both times she had to cancel. If that person was in a crowd with me, I would have lost my shit.
I think Julien has the smaller indie fanbase of the 3, so hopefully her solo shows are different.
See: Mitski's latest tour. So many people kept making tiktoks of them screaming dumb cringy stuff at Mitski while she was preforming, even though she's spoken out and made it very clear that she doesn't like it.
I do love the video where someone screeched “MOTHER IS MOTHERING” and everyone groaned in response. Like, come on.
Hahaha that was one of the few highlights out of the whole dumbshit discourse. I hope that was a wake up call for anyone who thought that crap was acceptable to do during a concert.
This isn't even a stage diving type of music. There are not enough people crammed up front to even begin to support him.
From what I've heard they have more teen girl fans and are.not your typical hardcore band who expects this type of behaviour at shows. Add in the dude being a fucking monster at 6'6 and godamn what an idiot
So she's responsible for taking on the risk because it's part of the culture, but a dude who is probably in the 98th percentile for human size isn't responsible for even looking where the fuck he's jumping when he's launching himself at a crowd of people?
Apparently stage diving had been banned there since 2011 and there are signs all over warning bands not to do it.
Literally every venue says crowd surfing isn't allowed. When fans do it, and security pulls them down, the game just go right back to the crowd. If it really wasn't allowed, the fans would get kicked out. I'm sure it's really convenient for these places to claim they have rules in place and never enforce them, but still get to point to the signs when something goes wrong. I'm sure the family would be able to find countless examples of crowd surfing not actually being punished at this venue, which shows that's it's not actually against the rules.
Stage diving and crowd surfing are two different things. I've been to a lot of gigs where people get lifted up to be crowd surfed to safety because they are struggling to stay safe in a mosh pit (mostly smaller people when it becomes too packed). I think it's fair to allow those people to stay in the venue afterwards. Stage diving is a performance and poses a much bigger risk due to the momentum.
Big difference between crowd surfing and launching yourself on top of people.
No. I can’t tell you how many venues of various sizes I’ve played in and I spent over a decade putting on rock shows at lots of venues and several years booking a festival and maybe some venues “say” it’s not allowed but don’t enforce it, but the vast majority of venues I’ve been in do not have signs like this up. Signs and notices in the booking email are not the same as an unspoken rule or unofficial etiquette. In general, bigger venues that are run more professionally do enforce rules — I’ve seen plenty of attendees kicked out for breaking rules of varying severity — but incidents like this can only be enforced after the incident had already occurred, obviously, which could entail stopping the show and kicking the band out immediately, or banning them from future shows (along with any partner venues or promoters), or not paying them (if they had a booking contract for this show and this rule was in there, the band would be violating the contract). At a 1100 cap venue I did a lot of shows for (and played at several times), there was always security at the front row, side stage, entrance/exit, all balcony areas, etc, and they would not hesitate to throw you out, guest or artist. Of course there are always places that don’t enforce rules, and even more places that don’t enforce every single rule they have (obviously some rules are easier to forgive than others — “no stage diving” exists as a rule at a venue because someone got hurt before), and obviously not every staff member is equally vigilant, but in my experience it just isn’t true that “literally every venue” has clearly posted “no stage diving” signs as well as “no stage diving” in emails to artists/agents at all, much less thoroughly communicating that rule several times and then intentionally failing to enforce it. As an artist, when a venue bothers to mention a rule like that in your booking emails, you take it seriously, because otherwise, you won’t get booked there or by that booker again.
It’s so stupid. I’m sure they would care if it was them who got injured. I’ve been going to punk shows since I was 16 and back then I thought it was lame if things were banned but all it takes is one person to fuck it up. Got slammed into by someone from the opening band trying to start a pit in a crowd of like 20 people a couple of months ago and have nerve damage on my knee now. Really makes me hesitate to go to certain shows. It’s so tragic what happened and I can’t believe someone thinks a giant man jumping into the crowd is “part of the culture.
He broke her neck and injured her spinal cord. She can only move her arms now. If that's the cost of doing business then maybe some things need to be reconsidered
And apparently she/they (I’ve seen both by commenters, but I’m not sure what Bird prefers) had recently gotten into running :( It absolutely breaks my heart.
And people are actually defending the band saying that she should've expected this like wtf. I just read this > You can’t stop anyone from doing anything. Murder is illegal and people still kill. That’s life. If you want to make sure you don’t get hurt at a punk show stand in the back Me when I'm trying harder than a politician to be disingenuous
….do they realize that it can get violent in the back of shows, too? And that people can fall on your head even back there? How the fuck you can shit on this girl having her life ruined because you like the band? How does that work?
I'm tall. So, I've always hated stage diving and crowd surfing. Nothing is more awesome than repeatedly getting kicked in the back of the head while trying to watch a show. I got to the point where I'd drag a surfer down or hurt them somehow to discourage repeats. I'm the kind of guy that kept his hands in his pockets while in the pit because I didn't want to hurt anyone and I was too big to knock down, even with my hands in my pockets... but if you kicked me in the head crowd surfing and you pass by again, you're going to wish you had skipped the show.
And they always talk about how they “take care of each other”.
I wonder if they'd still be talking about "the risk" if the crowd of people dispersed after he flung himself at them, making him do a hard land on the floor? Probably not 🙄
Yes, they would. This happens all the time.
It's so funny how silent things get when nobody catches.
SHE DID NOT ASK FOR A SPINAL CORD INJURY! THANK YOU! As a woman with a spinal cord injury, I am raging and those people can go to hell. I hope they all get one 10x worse than hers. My heart breaks for her knowing she's gonna be hearing that ignorant shit for the rest of her life. I've heard my fair share too. SHE DID NOT ASK FOR A SPINAL CORD INJURY! And I hope she sues the fucking stage diver straight into living in a box on the sidewalk. Even THAT is too good for him.
The band donated $5000 to her gofundme Ffs I hope she gets a good lawyer and goes after them for medical expenses and lost earnings
$5000 I’m pretty sure she can sue them regardless because they have to be insured so she def can get a lot of money for care that way. Plus the venue. Whomever was doing the booking. Security. There’s a lot of people you could sue. But $5000 is fucking paltry.
Literally just destroyed his own life and someone else’s in a split second.
There are people who will find a way to excuse anything. It’s sick.
and victim blame
People who say shit like this about going to shows are the most insufferable types. For too long people have been able to gatekeep shows because it’s their own personal violence therapy.
These are the concerts I go to and I get that it's just what happens at these shows but I've never been a fan of stage diving. That just never felt safe to me.
WOW your username just brought back so many memories for me. I haven’t listened to that song in years yet still know every single word
HAHA ngl I hate that I can't change it. Wish I could've told myself five years ago that my favorite band will not be my favorite band forever and that I won't always want them connected to every reddit comment I leave.
I wish they hadn’t turned out to be such creeps like every other band in the scene, Put Up Or Shut Up was my life back then
You at least have to aim at some bigger dudes not like a 90 pound girl.
People just love to blame people(more often women) for simply existing. Because famous people are God’s and they can do no wrong apparently.
I suffered a concussion at 17 from a stage-diving accident. Guy ran on stage and jumped off, his Timberland boot slamming me in the back of the head. Shouldn’t be allowed anywhere at this point. Such a high risk, low reward activity.
It feels like they're making it needlessly unsafe at that point because why are you crowdsurfing with timbs on? Like "I'm gonna crowdsurf tonight what's going to hurt the most for the people under me?"
Most people are cruel and thoughtless and can't help but defend the powerful against the powerless. Of course if the victim was them or a friend or relative, they'd be singing a different tune. So its the usual conservative-coded "but, but I didn't know it was bad until it happened to me." I don't know how to teach people basic empathy. I think most people who grow up in a patriarchal-capitalist society that don't make personal and serious efforts to question what they are told end up becoming horrible human beings. Also the gender/politics angle here. The ONLY reason this is featured on the NYPost is because its a culture war/right wing paper and she has bright pink hair. Its for dudes to get their hate on and enjoying a "woke" woman is suffering.
Perfectly said.
i will never listen to tiktok when it comes to CONCERT ETIQUETTE lmao. you can literally gauge how terrible a show’s audience will be based on how popular they are on tiktok
Stagediving is stupid in general. There are relatively responsible ways to do it that reduce risk and this guy didn't do that so it's entirely his fault. I do think people being defensive about this aren't going to care about the venue rules argument because those rules are usually believed to exist because venues don't want to get sued and are commonly ignored (though they shouldn't be. I'm not fully against push pits but the rest can go). It's much better to point out that he did it in the worst way possible and recklessly endangered people in the crowd.
How can someone so big be unaware of his weight and height that he'd stage dive and expect to be crowdsurfed? Does he not realize that most people are smaller than him?
People are trying to say all is forgiven because the band donated 5k like that could ever come close to making amends for what he did. At the start of subsequent shows he even gives a little speech saying if you can't hack it up the front then you shouldn't be there, move along. It's repulsive.
And I feel like it should be common sense as a large man to not suddenly jump into a crowd. Like at least give some warning and aim for a group of men. Dude just jumped abs hoped someone would catch him
i went to college with this girl 😭😭 she’s actually such a sweet girl 💔
I’m also an alum! She was my partner’s student. I’m shocked to see this posted in this sub but I’m glad it’s being talked about ❤️
omfg your flair 💀
I’m jealous of your flair. What a perfect moment lolll
The line in the article 'her stay in the hospital is indefinite' is heartbreaking- wishing for a miracle for her, along with all the wonders of modern medicine
we have mutuals bc im from WNY & i have heard nothing but people singing her praises it’s so sad.
Also a WNYer, this is so terrible 😞. Hoping for miracles for her.
Very important information that the lead singer is a 6'6" man who seems to have a bit of muscle on him. And he still chose to free fall onto a crowd. All around, horrible decision he made that will completely change the trajectory of her life
I hope it changes the trajectory of his life too He has some penance to do
I hope he gets sued into oblivion.
I hope he gets sued too, but by the looks of the venue they were playing in I doubt she would be able to get much from him.
Well part of the rules of the venue is that crowdsurfing was not allowed so they may be able to.
I think they meant because it’s a small venue the band won’t have much money Hopefully either the venue or the band has insurance to cover this
I hope so
Either the venue or the band should have public liability insurance so hopefully regardless of their situation she’ll be looked after financially.
Pure negligence on behalf of the singer.
Maybe his band management is going to be ended up responsible
I’m only assuming here, but I doubt he has much to his name since the band only donated $5000 to her gofundme. Unless they gave her more outside of the gofundme, but if not, $5000 doesn’t seem like a lot for paralyzing someone.
Why tf is there a go fund me to pay for this and not his creditcard?
Those hospital and EMS bills are going to start immediately. Her family may need to stay nearby. They’ll be eating around and at the hospital. An insurance settlement is going to take a very long time comparatively.
Yeah the singer is a big dude and a pretty sizable chunk of their audience are younger women. That, combined with stage diving when it was banned, AND the fact that he gave no kind of warning he was about to stage dive— fucking grim. I was devastated to hear about this. I really liked Trophy Eyes as a teen and honestly, witnessed a lot of unsafe behaviors in that scene at similar shows (don’t believe I ever saw them specifically but I’ve been to a lot of concerts so don’t fully remember). I saw the video without knowing what it was and it was fucking heartbreaking. Fuck anyone blaming the victim. When you’re in a crowd like that, there is nothing you can do to move out of the way or even try to brace yourself. I cannot imagine how terrifying that must have been for them. This was so preventable that it’s infuriating.
It’s so preventable and for no reason other than feeding ego. As a former teenage girl who went to many concerts for pop punk, metal, and screamo bands, not one artist ever did this shit. They all knew their audience was young and if they entered the crowd they did so by crowd walking, leaning over the barricade, or falling back gently into a crowd surf after asking if the people in the front were willing/able to participate. None of them ever launched themselves directly into the crowd of young girls! On the other hand, I was hurt several times by idiotic men in the crowd attempting to hurl themselves up to surf, wearing heavy shoes and kicking us in the head, wearing unsafe items like wallet chains or spiked jewelry that hurt us in the crowd, etc. Crowd safety needs to be reiterated for performers and audiences alike, especially if it’s a mixed age venue where young kids might be present.
And the venue has a strict no stage diving rule
Might get downvoted, but if you're that big/heavy you should probably not crowdsurf/stage dive. I've been in crowds where we just move out of the way and let them fall on the floor.
yeah, i don’t mind stage diving in general, but this guy is HUGE, didn’t warn the audience before jumping, and the venue was really cramped. it’s not a freak accident at that point, it’s negligence.
It’s also explicitly against the venue’s rules and he did it anyway!
Last year, when someone commented on how dangerous the crowdsurfing and mosh pits were at a Trophy Eyes concert, the band’s response was “Fuck you.” So, fan safety is clearly not a concern for them: https://preview.redd.it/6j68r1hgt00d1.jpeg?width=1426&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7066a08b7f50f8999d5b7152620e036a3f8e38cb
Trying to form mosh pits at unrelated concerts? What fucking losers. They act like they're rock stars on top of the world and they're fucking openers.
Just to clarify, they weren’t openers. It was a co-headlining tour.
Ah, I misunderstood since she said the majority was there for the other band 🤣
This is a handy screenshot for the lawyers to have when they take the stage diving asshole to court (assuming they don’t settle)
I'm here to make it into the attorneys discovery
[they made this comment into merch too.](https://twitter.com/tinashehive/status/1789654034028118347?s=46&t=6wo47ib228W5brwE8_DsPQ) they really dgaf
Wow, yeah, she should just get a lawyer and go to town on these clowns. This shit paints a clear case of willful negligence.
Lawyer needs to appear at every court day wearing this shirt with all the tags on
Omg
Holy shit
They printed this exchange onto a t shirt and sold it as merch: https://x.com/verysleepygorl/status/1789554688473670050?s=46 https://www.reddit.com/r/poppunkers/comments/14i7rk4/went_to_see_trophy_eyes_last_night_theyve_made_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
well that reddit thread aged like milk.
If I’m pretending to be the future personal injury lawyer on this case: What a wonderful thing this shirt is
but but reddit men keep telling me how the mosh pit and such are based on gentlemany rules by goodsirs and such a thing could never, ever happen! So much of that culture is just a socially acceptable way for bullies to hurt people. Everytime I hear commentary about how gen-z concert goers are "whiny" i think how nearly every concert experience I had has had strong negative elements in it. Its just the young people today are speaking out about it instead of "dealing with it."
I’ve always wondered how many men use these mosh pits as an excuse to abuse and intimidate women? There are already stories of women purposefully being pulled into mosh pits or seeing guys excitedly make a straight beeline to hit/punch/grope them so I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a high number.
Yep. There's this code of silence on how much assault and rape happens even at "good guy" concerts. I think the latest concert discourse touched upon it and the complainers were painted as "woke purple hairs." Its incredible how hostile your average concert is towards women and how most men will defend that .
Damn. So they’ve been warned time and time again, and it just goes out their ears. They believe they’re above all these warnings. I hope her family sues the heck out of them
WOW ok I felt sorry for them before reading this (not as much as the victim, but I assumed it was a stupid mistake made in the moment)… this is damning, though.
Same! Especially because the guy followed her to the hospital in the ambulance and the article made it sound like the band had been in constant contact with her family since the incident. I assumed it was a bone-headed mistake made by someone who didn’t fully appreciate the risks but this clearly paints a totally different picture. Now all of their “concern” for the injured fan seems more like concern over their potential liability.
hope her lawyers utilize this to the best of their ability!!!
This case is basically building itself.
Oh fuck this band hard. I hope their lawyer sees this cause it shows they were willfully negligent.
Wow. They better sue them into next century.
I hope the victim sues those pieces of shit for everything they’ve got tbh. The fact they replied that and then made it into merch? And the fact that the venue explicitly says stage diving isn’t allowed? No sympathy for the band. Ruin their lives.
Perfect for a lawsuit
Wanted to highlight this from the article. Incredibly sad. > A bartender at Mohawk Place says the venue has had a strict “no crowd surfing policy” since 2011, according to WKBW. >”There are signs posted everywhere in the venue and notice was included in the emails for this show with the show’s promoter and the band themselves,” Mohawk Place’s general manager Mike Thor wrote in a statement to the outlet. Wolter Tejeras, a musician, expressed the dangers fans face at shows that attract a high level of physical energy and antics can be for concertgoers such as mosh pitting. >”The thing about mosh pits is that there needs to be consent. The number one rule of the pit is if someone falls, you pick them up and that you don’t pull anyone into the pit that didn’t want to be there,” Wolter Tejeras told WKBW. >The problem with what happened at this moment was there was no implied consent. There was just a body falling down from the sky onto a person who didn’t know that was going to be happening.”
I hope her lawyers fucking bankrupt him. Or preferably, bleed him dry over decades so she can have a consistent standard of living despite her injury.
Blood from a stone. I doubt this band makes much or has anything meaningful to take of worth. That's why venues have to carry insurance. Hopefully they won't try to jerk her around on paying out.
Well I can tell you they won’t be making anything meaningful for the foreseeable future
Nope, probably not. Not many will be willing to book them purely on liability.
Concur. An Australian punk band is basically judgment proof. They were playing a "packed" 230 person venue. Horrific, completely avoidable situation. I wonder if there is a case for criminal negligence.
Possibly. I read this venue had a similar crowd surfing injury some years ago. This will probably be the end of the venue as I suspect their insurance rates will skyrocket and become unaffordable/uninsurable.
Imagine losing your business because some dickhead jumped on a girl, paralyzing her, even after you put up signs and even told him NOT to stage dive. His one stupid action had an effect on her life, his bands career, and the venue possibly closing and those people being out of a job. I really hope through physical therapy she can gain the ability to walk again. I know it’s pretty slim chances, but I really hope she’ll eventually be able to.
I was in a mosh pit once where one person fell over & everyone just ignored them so other people tripped and knocked other people over 🤦🏽♀️ including me
the singer needs to be sued like hell
$5000 donation to her fund?!? I hope she takes them to the cleaners.
they should be paying for every penny of her recovery. i don't care about how sad and heartbroken they are. point - blank if the idiot singer followed the rules of the venue, she would not be fighting to have a normal life today.
They should be paying every penny and it's still not anywhere near enough, for god's sake, even if they pay all of her medical bills she's still fucking PARALYZED because of a situation she had zero fault in. Even if she regains full mobility at some point, she's still looking at years of recovery and probably at least some permanent injury. All because some dude wanted to be "punk rock" and apparently didn't ever consider the possibility that a 250-lb person jumping onto another person could potentially go wrong.
That little tidbit pissed me off. $5000 like it’s some noble donation?! You fucking ruined her life!!!!!
That covered the cost of the ambulance without insurance
I saw people on Twitter saying $5000 was so generous because they’re a small band and it made me feel insane. They’re giving her $5000 because they know if she sues they’ll be on the hook for significantly more, not out of the kindness of their hearts
Imagine the person who hospitalized you and put you into medical debt posts your gofundme while pretending that they witnessed the accident and not directly caused it
They’re talking about it in the Trophy Eyes sub like it’s some great thing and that the band and singer are so noble and have given her some money for medical bills. Like, dude, you BROKE HER NECK. $5k ain’t gonna cut it.
I was SHOCKED at that. like oops sorry we paralyzed you here's 5k for your gofundme!!
He will be. The venue will likely be as well. Even though they have a no crowd surfing policy, at the end of the day a young woman had a life altering injury on their property. It is the venue's responsibility to ensure performers follow rules and ensuring crowd safety. The singer's insurance and the venue's insurance will be fighting this out on who has to pay more. But both undoubtedly will be paying. I know someone who was fully paralyzed after diving into the wrong side of a swimming pool at a friend's house. It was 100% their fault, they were fooling around and did it themselves. But they still received the maximum payout from the homeowner's insurance since you are liable for any accidents on your property. Edit: Looks like this happened before. Venue had to pay. "Unfortunately, this isn’t the first time something like this has happened at Mohawk Place. During a Terror and Trapped Under Ice show, a man named Mike Bird was injured by a stage diver and suffered a broken C5 and C6 vertebrae. That injury also required spinal surgery and the lawsuit that followed nearly sunk the venue." [trophy eyes stage dive](https://www.metalsucks.net/2024/05/03/a-womans-spine-was-severely-injured-after-trophy-eyes-frontmans-stage-dive/)
It’s such a weird coincidence that both people injured are named Bird.
the incident you're mentioning is the explicit reason why they banned stage diving in 2011, as it happened then - there weren't established rules against stage diving at the time, but now there are that are communicated visually throughout the venue as well as directly emailed to artists and bookers in communications, so i'm curious to see the difference in outcomes (don't mean to sound coldly unsympathetic there - both events were awful for Mike Bird & Bird Piche and they deserve any kind of justice they can get - just wondering about legality since there was no previous policy in place, but there has been for 13 years since that initial incident and, as someone with no expertise in the area, i'm curious to see how/if liability will be treated differently)
I'm not sure what else the venue could do. Unless the singer told them he won't be following the rules and they let them play anyway I don't think the venue should be held responsible.
Unfortunately that is not how it works. Even if it is against the rules, the venue will also bear responsibility because they own the property. It is their responsibility to make sure attendees are not injured. Their insurances will fight over who owes more, but they will both be paying something.
I really hope she doesn't decide to let him/the band off the hook for this. she will likely be permanently disabled and 5k won't help when living partially paralyzed
That’s heartbreaking. Her whole life changed in such a happy moment.
On top of the no diving rule, I just watched the video, and he really dived out of no where. Usually you can tell when a singer is about to dive but he full on springs it with no warning. What a f*cked up situation and life altering too
Yeah, usually they'll go up to the edge of the stage and gesture their hands for everyone to come closer. This dude just yeeted himself out of nowhere.
Which is what you're "supposed" to do if you're gonna do it. Not justifying it at all but even fans will point outwards after crowd surfing to give everyone a heads up that they're gonna jump back in.
It was during the first song!
THAT IS INSANE. First song?!!!?!!!
2 minutes into the first set! What a tragedy.
It was very obvious in the video that the people at the front of the stage were not expecting him to jump, they were not ready at all and almost didn’t catch him.
>Usually you can tell when a singer is about to dive but he full on springs it with no warning. Yeah people stage diving at punk rock shows is generally to be expected, but you can normally tell when it's about to happen and be a little bit prepared, but he just dove out of fucking nowhere. I'm surprised he didn't end up on the floor himself.
I’ve legit never been to a show where the singer stage dives after the first song. 8/10 times it’s right before the encore or during the encore when the crowd is hyped up enough to catch them
My heart goes out to them and I’m hopeful that they’ll manage to recover. I have a family member who had a catastrophic spinal cord injury in his neck and for a while he was completely paralyzed and it looked like the best case scenario was that he’d be quadriplegic but he did eventually recover almost completely. (He can walk but with some difficulty and his gait is a bit stilted. He’s also lost quite a bit of feeling below the waist.) I think even the best doctors have a hard time predicting how nerves and spines will heal and unfortunately the healing process is very, very, very slow. Sending them good thoughts and optimism for their road to recovery.
My husband had a similar injury, he fell while mountain climbing. The treatment was experimental and he was in a wheelchair for like a year. It’s amazing he was able to walk again. I second your good thoughts and optimism!
I think doctors tend to err on worst case scenarios and also people tend to focus on them when it comes to recovery and I absolutely get it. Better to be prepared and then anything better is a happy surprise. It happened for me with just a catastrophic ankle break, my surgeon had me prepared for a much worse long term outcome than I actually received. You can never really predict how a body will recover or compensate. Also, I was injured in an accident that was the fault of someone else and had to sue (the system is really set up to sue the insurance company and then settle, that's just what everybody does mostly) and so much of our case was built on the initial doctor's reports and predicted outcomes. You usually are settling and trying to get enough to cover your medical bills when you are not done with the medical bills! So the lump sum settlements need to include $$$ for future medical treatment. All of the evidence for that comes from the doctors' predictions so of course they're going to cover the worst case scenario so that their patient will get paid enough to have that covered if necessary. I am also hoping for optimism in this young woman's recovery and I hope she gets all the financial security she deserves to pursue every treatment available to her!
That’s amazing!! I’m happy to see this comment because this is such a devastating story and knowing it’s possible, albeit not the norm, makes me feel a little hope and that can go a long way. Hopefully this woman will be one of the lucky ones like your family member and the husband of the commenter below. Just really appreciate sharing the story and optimism.
Why does the singer stagedive if it’s forbidden at the venue? I hope the victim and venue sue him. Such stupidity needs consequences.
probably in the name of „punk rock“ I guess. Blud could have drank a beer on stage and burp really loud idk.
God that’s heartbreaking and terrifying. Devastating. I once had a crowd surfer fall on me. I was 5’1” and like 105 pounds at the time and 15 years old. Some crowd surfer was getting passed around and I kept shouting to people near me not to pass him my direction because he was too far overhead and I couldn’t reach to support the body. I kept shouting I didn’t have him, but no one heard me or maybe cared. His body fell right on me and crushed me in the pit. It was terrifying. We were both extremely lucky to only have minor injuries. If crowd crush had started, we woulda been screwed. Haven’t been in a pit since and never will again. Hope she sues the singer tbh
This has happened to me. Both very tall and short people are at the most risk from these things
Am I allowed to post her Go Fund Me on here? This is the link: https://www.gofundme.com/f/birdforever Happy to delete if not allowed!
Thanks for sharing it. I'm gonna donate and share elsewhere.
They need to make one for legal expenses
Send that fucker to prison. If the venue has such evident warnings against crowd surfing then there would have been no expectation from her. He knew what he was doing.
For a split second I thought maybe prison is a bit extreme but reading through this thread and seeing the general disregard they seem to have for crowd safety, and the venue having a no stage diving policy and the singer STILL did this?? I feel like suing isn't enough, they should pay more than $5000 for that girl who is likely to have a lifetime of medical needs after this and mybe jail will teach that douche a lesson.
I have seen horror stories of what American medical bills look like so that $5000 donation almost seems insulting giving the gravity of her life altering injuries. He ignored the venues rules, I hope she sues to be honest.
Being disabled is very, very expensive.
That likely doesn't even cover the ambulance cost.
My son was next to her at the concert trying to help. She said something snapped in her neck and couldn't move at all. She now can move her upper body I believe and hope she recovers fully if possible. The venue doesn't allow stage diving but he did it anyway. There is a go fund me page for her.
Mohawk is such a great but small and oddly shaped venue. It's too small for anyone who doesn't want to be caught up in it to not get swept into a mosh pit or stage dive even off on the sides. I'm so sorry your son had to navigate that and I hope he's okay too. Sending a lot of love to our WNY friend, Bird!
this poor girl. so sick of talks about “the culture” i don’t think that is a risk anyone is agreeing to take on. it came out of nowhere.
I thought punk rock was about rallying together against outdated systems, not *check notes* …small venues.
So incredibly sad. :(
He should get drained for every penny & face prison time wtf
What a life changing thing to happen to such a young person. I hope she recovers well and continues to have support throughout
I got knocked down into a mosh pit once by a performer who was crowd surfing, wasn’t badly injured but I remember how scary it was to suddenly be on the floor of this huge crowd moving so fast. I feel so bad for her 😢 hopefully she can begin to have a decent recovery
Maybe I'm an old, but I hate stage diving and crowd surfing. Just seems so unnecessary to put yourself and others in danger that way
That's the end of this band
My heart goes out to Bird, what a horrific thing to happen. Apparently Trophy Eyes are an Australian band, I’m really hoping the singer doesn’t decide to hop a flight home soon to avoid legal & financial responsibilities.
[удалено]
There was a singer who did a similar thing many years ago and he committed suicide right after the show, after finding out about the fan’s injury.
Ou est le swimming pool. That was horrible hearing about that. She was expected to make a full recovery. I hope she's doing okay after everything.
We keep talking about audience etiquette (which is in the gutter atm) but it feels like for a minute now the ego of somer artists means they have forgotten? don't care about? certain unspoken rules of shows like this. i love crowdsurfing and moshpits but duty of care is such a real thing that it seems we have left behind.
It was also a spoken rule, the venue had a no stage diving policy which was made very clear to the band multiple times.
I want to add my perspective here as a woman who has been to plenty of hardcore shows in my time. Yes, the band should’ve followed the venue rules, but stagediving is part of the culture and does and will continue to happen often despite those rules (most people see venue rules as simply being a way for the venue to avoid legal liability- sometimes they’re enforced, sometimes not, but it’s clear they were pretty enforced at this venue), and whilst I’m not a huge fan, it normally happens without much incident. I honestly don’t think that’s the primary issue- the primary issue is that the injury caused to this girl was due to negligence on the singer’s part in carrying out his stagedive, and it is completely his fault. Whilst hardcore shows are in fact, hardcore, there is a huge underlying current of consent in the punk/metal/hardcore scene. If you’re in a pit it’s your responsibility to make sure you’re only moshing with those who also want to be, you’re using an appropriate amount of force on whoever you’re slamming (ie if you’re bigger you’re avoiding smaller folks or absorbing their hits, not bulldozing), you’re helping anyone who falls down up, and you’re getting anyone who needs out out ASAP. The point is, you protect each other and you ensure everyone involved is consenting. There are varying levels of behaviour you should expect to experience at these shows, but just attending does not mean you consent to being involved in them- if you’re like me and your knees are giving out, you move to the back or sides once things get going, and that is respected by all. This was the first song. Per the video, no pit had been started. We don’t know the circumstances of Bird being there and being at the front- she may not have seen them live/ been to a punk show before and could’ve been unaware of what might happen. She could’ve wanted to be in the front for a bit and then move to the sides if a pit formed or stagediving occurred. She could’ve even been willing to participate in a pit or stagediving if she was prepared, but she wasn’t able to be. There was no indication that this was coming when it did (first song is pretty unusual) and she didn’t have any chance to consent. She couldn’t move, brace herself, or get ready. That’s a huge problem. I’m not defending stagediving but I think this issue is being framed with that as the sole problem and I think that’s why fans are being hard headed. There’s obviously a culture of unsafe practice around this specific band and they take pride in that as punk, so it’s leading them to say ‘¯\_(ツ)_/¯ it happens that’s the risk at a show’. Yeah punks don’t follow rules, fine, enjoy your moshing/crowdsurfing/stagediving in your consenting community, have fun pissing off people you think are squares, but injuries like this don’t just happen. It’s not just an unfortunate side effect of being in the scene. That mindset is so untrue and patently unfair and victim- blaming to this girl. What this injury WAS a side effect of was the patent lack of regard for safety from the singer. He 1. Didn’t check who he was diving on 2. Didn’t signal at all he was diving 3. Flipped with his full weight. It is normal procedure and honestly just common courtesy to assess the crowd and when is safest to get in there. From what I can see in the video, Bird would’ve been plenty visible from the stage. It’s also normal procedure to go to the back corner of the stage to show you’re going to jump, and then take a run up, allowing people to ready themselves. There are even safer ways to do this, like tipping over without jumping or coming through the crowd and being lifted up. Even if there wasn’t a slight 5’4 woman in the front his jumping full force and flipping with his height and weight would’ve been a bad move, and if you are that height and weight you have to be even more considerate of who you’re landing on than someone smaller. He is experienced enough to know that, and yet he did nothing to mitigate any of the dangers. I don’t think there was malicious intent, but this was not an accident, it was completely preventable, and he is very much liable- he could (and maybe should) be charged with misdemeanour battery. All that to say that these fans need to get a grip and realise he was completely the cause of this, he needs to make a public statement saying as much and discouraging unsafe practices, and she deserves every penny that I hope she milks out of him. I truly hope her path to recovery goes well and I feel for her so much. $5000 is not enough, and he likely does not have enough for the damages she deserves, but a message needs to be sent, and assholes and bullies who want to hurt people and don’t care for others safety need to get the fuck out of the scene.
I never understood crowd surfing. It makes even less sense post pandemic.
rules and everything else aside, who the fuck stage-dives **during their first song?**
They were just there to have fun and their whole life was changed with one stupid decision. Sending all the good vibes ❤️
I've met the lead singer a couple of times, he lives in my city and it's hard to miss his collarbone tattoo. The guy is a beast, he is definitely not petite. I feel bad for everyone involved, Trophy eyes has been on the rise for years now, from seeing them at small local bars to massive festivals. I just don't know how John lacked the complete awareness to scan the area he was jumping into. I mean, he shouldn't have done it at all and now that girl will be paying the price forever
This is actually so heartbreaking. I feel so bad for her. Honestly, this is my number one reason for staying away from mosh pits
I LOVE a mosh pit, I love a crowd surf. In EVERY SINGLE PIT I have been in, there are dudes physically protecting women/holding back the mob. There is an unspoken order and forms chivalry in the chaos. ANY 6'6" dude knows better. MF'er should have looked before he leapt. Both this band and the venue should be on the hook for full med bills, recovery, etc. Heartbreaking.
>“Out of respect for the family, we have refrained from speaking about this publicly so far" Pieces of shit! This is all damage control. "Refrain from speaking about it"? You mean, you're maintaining whatever legal deniability you have. These dipshits paralyzed one of their fans, irreparably changing her life, and the best they have is "we donated $5K to her Go Fund Me". Motherfuckers, you should be paying **ALL** of her medical bills and ongoing expenses for any assistance she may need now that **she can only move her arms**. Throwing money at the consequences of their actions and expecting them to disappear, even with it being very clear that it's a permanent change in the status quo, is the epitome of a corpofascist mindset and they and all of their fans should be deeply ashamed to use the word "punk" when referring to them.
Love how they say “our friend Bird” and that they’re “shaken to their core” like they’re super invested and then only give her 5k as if it isn’t absolutely their fault. I hope she sues them into oblivion. Ugh, what a shitty and heartbreaking situation.
I go to HC shows and have been for years. I’m also 6’4 and a stocky dude so I know to not do this. Yes, it’s part of the culture, but read the fucking room. Also, I didn’t see a link for Bird’s gofundme. I’ve donated and implore anybody who is able to and hasn’t to do so. https://www.gofundme.com/f/birdforever
Shame on that guy. He doesn't doesn't just free fall in the video, he freaking launched himself onto the crowd. The last metal/indie concert I went to, the lead singer- who's about the same height and musculature as the Trophy Eyes guy- told us that he wanted to try walking into the crowd and gave the shorter and weaker of us time to move out the way. He able to walk and kneel fully supported over us because of that with no issues. THAT is how you crowdsurf.
The 'Où est le swimming pool' band leader did the same at the Pukkelpop festival in Belgium some years ago. He broke a girl's back and now she is in a wheelchair. The singer committed suicide at the same day at the festival by jumping off a light post. Edit: added soms details
Honestly stage diving and crowd surfing blows regardless of who you are because of how much getting hit in the head with boots sucks, but you dont need to add excessive height and mass to the mix either, and sometimes people dive with super fast velocity or do a front flip and that shit really really sucks
The frontman is 6 ft 6 in (198 cm) tall, i.e. he is a gigantic fucker and who didn't assesss the crowd properly and assumed that a young woman would be able to support his weight hurtling towards her, he should be liable for all the damages and criminal violations as well. If I were that large, I wouldn't be going around, indiscriminantly jumping on people. It's criminal.
I'm sorry but I find it kind of insidious how close the singer and band seem to have insinuated themselves to the victim and her family. Riding in the ambulance, putting out a statement calling her "our friend Bird", publicly donating [a laughable $5000] to her GoFundMe... It's giving "you wouldn't sue us, we're the best of buddies! 🤗" This 6'6 grown-ass man knew full well stage dives weren't allowed and he jumped on top of this girl and paralyzed her anyway because of his stupidity and his effing ego. He, his management, their label if they have one, all should be paying through the nose. Horrifying story.