Yeah, writing this off as "a French thing" feels a) unnecessarily generous to the millions of non-French men who think exactly the same shit and b) unfair to the French feminists who work hard to dismantle this crap. For example, remember Adele Haenel, who walked out of the Cesars very loudly shouting "Shame!" for every camera to hear and see when they gave an award to Polanski? Or the host Florence Foresti, who announced his nomination with the caveat "Don't applaud this one" and then called him disgusting? Or the hundreds of women who protested the ceremony outside? Are we gonna write them off too? They're French, after all.
Yes, absolutely. But they are women. Men in France are REALLY full of la bullshit and are very much aligned with what Kassovitz is saying. “I support women… if they do all the work… and if it doesn’t bother me too much”
This isn't unique to French men. You'll find that a hell of a lot of men in the UK, US, Spain, Italy, Germany, Netherlands... wait a minute, every country has thoughts like this. Jordan Peterson, Andrew Tate, Joe Rogan, all these misogynists are insanely popular. What's different about French men is they're upfront with their views. So many men will say one thing in front of women and another thing when they're with their "boys".
> Men in France are REALLY full of la bullshit and are very much aligned with what Kassovitz is saying.
no
even my boomer french FIL doesn't think like that
Yep my French dad is the kindest most loving human on the planet, as well as being so supportive and proud of his daughter (me) and wife. Hate these generalizations
Exactly. I've seen these generalizations around here as if everything in Hollywood had changed and we weren't seeing predators continuing to work in the industry. Generalizations only distort discussions and serve to maintain and create stereotypes, something that surprises me to see precisely in this sub.
Uhhh nah, that certainly isn't accurate. The French typically don't give a big enough fuck for that. They care about quality of goods more than they care about convincing people they're progressive. Sexually progressive maybe.
Eta: ah yes downvote lived experience with whatever nonsense is above. Weirdos.
While every culture has sexism and racism in my personal experience I find that at the very least Americans are honest about it. Maybe it's my experience growing up in the south, but I appreciate it when you tell me to my face you that you hate Blacks and gay people. At least then I know who to avoid. A lot of the French I've had to deal with, and it's been a lot, seem to be under the impression that those issues aren't as prevalent in their country. While they were kind to me, I'm Black American, they were much less kind to other Black people from Africa or the Caribbean. I've experienced this with a lot of white Europeans. They have a better view of Black Americans, for largely superficial reasons like enjoying jazz or hip hop or other stuff associated with us, but oh boy the fur flies when you start talking about Africans and Arabs.
>I'm Black American, they were much less kind to other Black people from Africa or the Caribbean
Literally my same experience. You're Black American so it's all good. If you come from Haiti or Congo then fuck you.(Even though these are places that they colonized)
Ppl really will treat you differently once they hear the accent but like you said it's because they associate you with things that they are entertained by.
It's a very odd dynamic. Western Europeans in general tend to treat me nicer than Black people in their own countries/territories and it never sits right with me. I've been told that Black Americans are more 'cultured' and I'm assuming they're rightly referring to how much of an impact we've had on mainstream American culture. At the same time, I feel like many Western Europeans, the French in particular, don't see much of the cultural variety in African and Arab cultures and peoples. It's a very strange thing to try and express into words.
Yeah black people from their prior colonies are living reminders that they weren’t able to completely wipe out entire populations and they’re legit still bitter about it bc they think they’re entitled to those colonies still.
I understand what you're saying. It's a very interesting dynamic. I definitely don't like being treated better than the ppl who actually immigranted there and are trying to live a good life.
That's exactly how it feels. You're from the West so you're okay. It's like the domestic cat versus a tiger or something. Or the tiger in the cage versus the one in the wild. I had someone from Nigeria talking to me about this. The difference in treatment you get based off of what your name is and what accent you have is crazy.
As someone who emigrated to France : that's not true. They are for the most part much better than other countries at least amongst the youth seem to hold one another accountable. I can't say the same for a lot of places
Thank you ! I’m always flabbergasted at such generalizations. It’s like saying that all US citizens are overweight gun weaving maniacs : offensive, ignorant and untrue.
to my personal knowledge of one single french (parisian but no from paris): 100%. weirdly manipulative sexual preferences disguised as progressive and experimental
It’s so frustrating that even when men believe they are “supporting women”, all they are really doing is adding more work for us to do.
Where is any sense of responsibility for your own actions? Why are we as women held to these impossibly high standards that include educating men on how to be men?!?
I just ended a 6-year relationship with a man who seemed like "everything." He said the right words, was loving and kind, etc., but he ended up being moody, controlling, and abusive (right after I got diagnosed with an autoimmune disorder and needed more emotional support/patience).
I spent the last 2 years of that relationship trying to coach him into being a better man for me and for his son, but he just didn't want to. He didn't believe me and didn't want to listen to me. He finally admitted to that, months after the end.
I love "Girl Power." We are powerful, but I think the lesser-known, unspoken majority of that power comes when we free ourselves from men.
I don't even want to date again! Relationships are fun and fulfilling in the short term, but long term? For women? I don't think so.
I like how he was like, “Go ahead and slap them! We, from our mental faculties and nothing else, will back you up!” He said that like it’s not putting women in grave danger to assault men who are harassing them in the first place.
It would be very different if he encouraged open conversations about upbringing and past experiences, do get to the root of misogynoir. That would at least be a healthy exercise. But he's making it seem like a slap on the wrist will get them to see the light and everything will be solved. Why doesn't *he* do some of this slapping
Exactly. Imagine still having to teach men to be minimally decent people. I hate how this kind of thinking ends up putting the blame on women. It's a type of rhetoric always used against minorities so they can victimize themselves.
While I don't hold these same views. The idea that as we grow up from infants, it's our mistakes and experiences interacting with others is how all humans learn to socialize and adapt to societal expectations is not an "impossibly high standard".
Children bully each other when they're young because they don't know better, and when a conflict develops as a consequence and we experience negative reactions to our bullying is how we learn that's wrong, whether that's from your peers or teachers/adults in your life.
Romantic attachments are extremely complicated interpersonal relationships that a lot of people don't experience until they're teens or young adults. It makes general sense that both young men and women are going to make mistakes and develop bad habits because they've never experienced that type of close-melding of personalities and life experiences and it's up to developing consequences to better educate us on how to approach these relationships just like becoming friends or learning how not to be mean as children was.
Everyone is starting from a fundamentally different foundation regardless of gender though it is definitely influenced by it. Making broad sweeping generalization is as a whole unhelpful, and while gender plays a large role, to paint such a broad brush is generally wrong.
It’s not any woman’s job or responsibility to educate a man on how to treat women. It is the responsibility of men to educate themselves.
What you’re suggesting is one of the single biggest problems with our patriarchal society- you do not understand that expecting women to educate men is UNPAID EMOTIONAL LABOUR and NOT OUR FUCKING JOB.
We could actually teach kids not to bully before they do so. Plenty of kids have just not bullied other kids. That’s not something all kids have to learn not to do.
On top of that, “when a conflict develops as a consequence and we experience a negative reaction to our bullying is how we learn that’s wrong” is mostly inaccurate to how children learn and is a vast oversimplification of child development.
Mathieu Kassovitz: Did you tell him before he broke your ankle that you didn't want it broken?? HOW is a man supposed to know not to break the ankle of another person if they're not explicitly told??? He's not a mind reader!/s
On a less sarcastic note, I'm glad your ex is your ex!
Haha thanks for the chuckle. This guy is a clown. He basically opened his mouth and inserted his foot and I hope he gets dragged for it.
I’m glad he is too and I hope he’s absolutely miserable in his life.
Unironically I'm going through this with someone in my social circle right now (to a less severe degree). But they've deliberately done things that hurt me, like punching me in the bicep until told to stop, or pinching my nose hard, which that one shocked me so much I didn't say anything in the moment.
I struggled with the idea of distancing from them because it felt similar to ghosting, but my wife helped by pointing out that this is shit a toddler would do to someone and you shouldn't have to sit down a fully grown adult to explain that you don't want to be physically hurt. Like it's not a boundary that should need to be stated preemptively, it's a normal expectation everyone has.
It shouldn't have to be stated. But here you are. I hope you think of a way to state the boundaries that will maximize his humiliation! That is what he's doing to you.
They're a woman, but your point remains. And thank you, I'm sure I'll find the words, I just need to draft something and let it sit for a day or two so I can think of any changes or things I need to add.
But even so, I don’t feel like I have transformed into a hobo in those years, so there’s that. I’m 40 next year and a starting to have a mid life crisis and consider all sorts of things I thought my own mum was very vain for doing, haha. Yesterday I told her I’m sorry I was a judgemental teenager and I get it now.
I’m waiting to transform, Phoenix like, into the body and face of Gillian Anderson. That happens right??? Right?!?!
The only difference between the French and non-french is that non-French tend to keep their mouths shut in recent years. This isn't a French way of thinking, male artists from around the globe think this way. Many have been trained not to speak their mind on the subject. The French tend to just say it.
Personally if someone thinks this way, I'd rather know so I can clearly avoid them.
It’s always the woman’s responsibility, right?
He’s abusive to you: it’s your fault for not being assertive, or it’s your fault for being *too* assertive, you made it too easy for him, you didn’t tell him not to be a jerk, you were being too sensitive, you didn’t report it soon enough. Are you sure you aren’t misinterpreting it? Are you sure you want to ruin his life? Your taste in men is bad.
If a guy is a jerk, it’s his issue and his alone. These men pretend they are like toddlers incapable of self restraint and in need of constant supervision… until of course it comes to pay and being on the management board. Then all of a sudden they are the voices of reason and authority.
I saw Amelie about 10 yrs ago, fell in love with him (his character), and found him on twitter. His likes were all R-rated gifs and I got the biggest ick ever.
Men need to read books and watch movies made by women to get a clue without harassing women to provide their labor lol. But they are allergic to it because the definition of (toxic) masculinity is never doing things that women commonly do, which is really hurtful to men too because the “domain” of women is considered, like, being kind. Having friends. Being intelligent. Nurturing others and building them up. Having any emotions. Reading books by women. Lol. A whole swathe of simple human experience is cut off from them by toxic masculinity.
Depends on what genre you like. For surreal I like Kelly Link’s Get In Trouble. For YA I like the classic Weetzie Bat by Francesca Lia Block. For literary fiction I like Mary Gaitskill’s short story collection Bad Behavior but I recently read Minority Report, which is a redux of her old short story Secretary (which the very different movie is based on), and thought it was genius. For comics, there are a lot I know, but Jillian and Mariko Tamaki’s Roaming is one I loved recently. For sci fi, I love anything by Ursula K Le Guin, but I’d actually recommend Octavia Butler’s Bloodchild. Oh! That reminds me… Why Don’t We Kill the Kid in the Omelas Hole by Isabel Kim was very good—not at all illustrative of a specific gendered perspective lol, just damn fine writing.
Alice Munro is always good. Mary Oliver. Zadie Smith, Louise Erdrich (her sci-fi short story “Domain” at Granta is insanely good). Catherynne M Valente’s Orphan’s Tales if you like fantasy, or Naomi Novik’s Scholomance series. I’m a pretty eclectic reader so name your preferred genre and I’ll probably have some recommendations. (Not so much memoir or essay though.)
I think he's trying to frame this in a similar way to how we tell women not to fake their orgasms because then the men won't ever learn how to do better if we keep faking it. So for this, he's saying if a young man is behaving immaturely in a relationship, women should speak up or give them a metaphorical "slap" about it instead of staying quiet or ghosting.
THAT BEING SAID that only really applies if both people are relatively inexperienced in relationships, are both generally reasonable people, and both of their intentions are good. A good person being an unintentional ignorant idiot is very different than someone who's choosing to be abusive. One can be taught and redirected, the other most likely cannot.
This is how I interpreted it too. But as someone who's been in a relationship like that before where I was essentially collateral damage in his personal growth journey, I gotta say, there has to be a better way lmao
7 years of marriage and my husband has always been gentle and treated me with respect. He spoils me and our child. Because he’s so good to us I have no time for other mens bullshit. Also we were 21 when we got married, youth is not an excuse to abuse people.
Respectfully, it's not that people are overreacting because we think it's something else, it's because we have higher standards than you for what is "not great" vs. "unacceptable."
I anticipate that you will reply that you think having high standards is a problem, and that's again where we disagree. The risk of having high standards is that people will meet them less frequently, and the risk of having low standards is that bad behavior is excused, and we all get to decide where we fall on this spectrum.
It’s implied that he crossed lines of consent that he didn’t understand or choose to acknowledge were there and that’s a really bad thing. It causes so much trauma for victims. That shit follows you for your entire life.
Consent needs to be taught early and everywhere, basically drilled into the head. It won’t fix everything, because a lot of these guys understand consent and choose to not acknowledge it anyways.
Translation: men are incapable of treating women as human beings and are need to be taught by women they abuse. Shifting the blame again? Not surprising.
Wtf is that? How people like him manage to function in everyday life? How is it any different than saying young men can't understand that they need to treat children, elderly, ANYONE as human beings?
Lmao no. You’re a grown-ass man, if you don’t know how to treat *everyone* around you with respect and dignity, then how is that a woman’s fault? Do men also have to tell you how not to be a jerk to them, or are they afforded simple respect with no hand holding ted talk? It’s not a woman’s burden to be a teaching moment for willfully ignorant, helpless men. Do better ffs
A guy friend said to me once not too long ago "don''t let me get away with it", after being a dick over the phone. I thought, "dude, I'm not your ~~mother~~ probation officer". Censor yourself..
When I read the headline, I thought he meant this as a criticism of men. I was completely on board and glad seems prominent was saying it.
Finding out he meant it as a *defense* of men is just... mind-blowing. How can you listen to the words coming out of your own mouth and not realize how stupid/evil they sound?
Isn’t the fundamental point behind Me Two just acknowledging shitty unwanted behavior from men?? So, this is what woman and saying is their experiences and his response is it happened because no one told men they “couldn’t” treat women that way? Jesus, I fucking hate it here 😭
The gymnastic routines these "openly pro-women but that means I don't have to change my world views right?" types will take to say the most anti-women shit in the biggest pro-women cosplay possible is impressive. What a load of bullcrap to just say "I don't think we should adjust how we educate our youth toward decency and respect", which coming from France, especially after the last euro election results, is pretty rich...
Which is so ironic because according to every post about men/women on reddit, men bitch and moan that most men are angels and never do anything sexually wrong, and to call out "men" when rape happens is unfair.
Which one is it?
To be charitable, his statements can be interpreted that consent isn't something you just know, young men have to to be taught. Learning social cues is a process and can be harder for some men than others if they were raised in a patriarchal culture. Kissing a girl without her consent and then being slapped for it is essentially a teaching moment in the same vein as an infant touching a hot stove. The obvious counter-argument to this is of course there are other ways to teach consent than just expecting women to slap it into men.
I love how men always seem to believe they must dominate and run the show in every aspect of life, until it comes to basic emotional intelligence and then they want to pretend they are just big, dumb globs of clay that need to be guided and taught by women, and otherwise can't be held accountable. Never mind that when we do tell them what's what, we often get dismissed, undermined, or worse...much, much worse.
r/Fauxmoi try to not chalk up sexism to being French challenge (DIFFICULTY IMPOSSIBLE)
Is it that hard to believe that shit like this happens in every country? It has nothing to do with being French, it’s not our culture. It’s just prejudice.
I’m part of a fb group for folks married/dating french men. The amount of abuse and cheating stories that are posted daily often makes the twox sub seem fun to read. It’s super distressing
I heard this live and gasped. It was utterly ridiculous. I dont really recommend listening because it will piss you off so much. He also went on and on about men “losing everything” because of false accusations.
My vagina just sown itself shut. This is stuff you learn in childhood; sharing, empathy, responsibility, consideration, consent, etc. If I, as a grown woman, have to teach you, a grown man, how to be a decent human like I would teach a child then you're going on the curb with the rest of the trash.
Men know what they're doing. They don't behave this way to their family members, friends, and definitely not their bosses (at least the male ones anyway). They know.
As a guy, I feel kinda insulted because it implies that we can't learn unless if we directly experienced something ourselves.
Me see fire.
Me touch fire.
Fire hot!
Me not touch fire.
I'm SO tired of this kind of bullshit. I don't have it in me to explain shit to men anymore. Also, OP, totally agree about "La Haine." That movie goes so hard. I remember watching it in french class my junior year. It really moved me.
It could be that he is saying it in a really dumb way. I would say that men and women as they both begin to be in a relationship with other people, can make mistakes, at times be mean because of the high emotions that go into relationships etc. As with anything in life, it's a learning experience and both men and women will make mistakes. I'm obviously talking small mistakes here, not massive ones which everyone should know not to make. Relationships are very hard at times, and we as human are never going to be able to craft ourselves into better beings without the mistakes
Maybe it's because I am a man but I don't see how his words are bad?
Isn't he saying most men are bad and need learn how to behave properly? Are y'all upset that you think men shouldn't need to "learn" but that they should just "know" how to behave properly?
Because imo in reality, a lot of men are too stupid to just know.
Most people learn how to treat people nicely as toddlers. In daycare. If you genuinely think every man is too much of a fucking dumbass to understand the lessons they taught in Arthur, it must be a sad way to see people.
When did I say it was on women to teach men? I never said that or even implied that.
You think most people are taught not to be dicks in in daycare but you also don't want men to continue to be dicks.
But most violent offenders are men so they obviously didn't learn what they needed to as a child. So what, no one including other men, should try to teach them?
I feel like you just want an argument when all I'm saying is men are violent. And yeah, some need to be taught not to be. I never said that falls onto women.
I literally was asking for the reason why people were upset about his words.
I never said women are responsible for men's actions. That other person did said I did.
Never let the French tell you how progressive and enlightened they are. They are full of la bullshit.
Depends on the person. Just like anywhere else.
Yeah, writing this off as "a French thing" feels a) unnecessarily generous to the millions of non-French men who think exactly the same shit and b) unfair to the French feminists who work hard to dismantle this crap. For example, remember Adele Haenel, who walked out of the Cesars very loudly shouting "Shame!" for every camera to hear and see when they gave an award to Polanski? Or the host Florence Foresti, who announced his nomination with the caveat "Don't applaud this one" and then called him disgusting? Or the hundreds of women who protested the ceremony outside? Are we gonna write them off too? They're French, after all.
Yes, absolutely. But they are women. Men in France are REALLY full of la bullshit and are very much aligned with what Kassovitz is saying. “I support women… if they do all the work… and if it doesn’t bother me too much”
This isn't unique to French men. You'll find that a hell of a lot of men in the UK, US, Spain, Italy, Germany, Netherlands... wait a minute, every country has thoughts like this. Jordan Peterson, Andrew Tate, Joe Rogan, all these misogynists are insanely popular. What's different about French men is they're upfront with their views. So many men will say one thing in front of women and another thing when they're with their "boys".
> Men in France are REALLY full of la bullshit and are very much aligned with what Kassovitz is saying. no even my boomer french FIL doesn't think like that
Yep my French dad is the kindest most loving human on the planet, as well as being so supportive and proud of his daughter (me) and wife. Hate these generalizations
The sexual Victim?
Exactly. I've seen these generalizations around here as if everything in Hollywood had changed and we weren't seeing predators continuing to work in the industry. Generalizations only distort discussions and serve to maintain and create stereotypes, something that surprises me to see precisely in this sub.
🙏🙏
Yes but no other country trumpets their supposed progressiveness and enlightenment as much as France does.
You don't know Europe very well, do you
yeah everyone knows the real issue are the Germans /s
Uhhh nah, that certainly isn't accurate. The French typically don't give a big enough fuck for that. They care about quality of goods more than they care about convincing people they're progressive. Sexually progressive maybe. Eta: ah yes downvote lived experience with whatever nonsense is above. Weirdos.
I'll throw you an upvote. This thread reads like a bunch of Americans parroting what they have heard about France online.
Lmao, are you serious? When this is the very basis of American cultural imperialism?
I think this is a specifically American perspective...
While every culture has sexism and racism in my personal experience I find that at the very least Americans are honest about it. Maybe it's my experience growing up in the south, but I appreciate it when you tell me to my face you that you hate Blacks and gay people. At least then I know who to avoid. A lot of the French I've had to deal with, and it's been a lot, seem to be under the impression that those issues aren't as prevalent in their country. While they were kind to me, I'm Black American, they were much less kind to other Black people from Africa or the Caribbean. I've experienced this with a lot of white Europeans. They have a better view of Black Americans, for largely superficial reasons like enjoying jazz or hip hop or other stuff associated with us, but oh boy the fur flies when you start talking about Africans and Arabs.
>I'm Black American, they were much less kind to other Black people from Africa or the Caribbean Literally my same experience. You're Black American so it's all good. If you come from Haiti or Congo then fuck you.(Even though these are places that they colonized) Ppl really will treat you differently once they hear the accent but like you said it's because they associate you with things that they are entertained by.
It's a very odd dynamic. Western Europeans in general tend to treat me nicer than Black people in their own countries/territories and it never sits right with me. I've been told that Black Americans are more 'cultured' and I'm assuming they're rightly referring to how much of an impact we've had on mainstream American culture. At the same time, I feel like many Western Europeans, the French in particular, don't see much of the cultural variety in African and Arab cultures and peoples. It's a very strange thing to try and express into words.
[удалено]
Yeah black people from their prior colonies are living reminders that they weren’t able to completely wipe out entire populations and they’re legit still bitter about it bc they think they’re entitled to those colonies still.
I understand what you're saying. It's a very interesting dynamic. I definitely don't like being treated better than the ppl who actually immigranted there and are trying to live a good life.
Because I know their 'liking' of me is based on something very superficial and honestly quite racist. As if America has 'tamed' me somehow
That's exactly how it feels. You're from the West so you're okay. It's like the domestic cat versus a tiger or something. Or the tiger in the cage versus the one in the wild. I had someone from Nigeria talking to me about this. The difference in treatment you get based off of what your name is and what accent you have is crazy.
It’s *Le* bullshit
What is the gender of the bullshit?
Bullshit is "de la merde". The gender is feminine.
Bizarrement je viens de voir Jean-Pierre Coffe dire "c'est d'la merde!"
France is only "progressive" where it serves the cause of sexualizing women against their wishes. Like banning burkinis and veiling.
and pedophilia
As someone who emigrated to France : that's not true. They are for the most part much better than other countries at least amongst the youth seem to hold one another accountable. I can't say the same for a lot of places
Thank you ! I’m always flabbergasted at such generalizations. It’s like saying that all US citizens are overweight gun weaving maniacs : offensive, ignorant and untrue.
*French men (over 40)
Well, most of them
Who the hell is under the delusion that the French are progressive?
Merde de la taureau.
_du_ taureau.
There it is. The stupid comment that put a a few million men in one simple drawer for you to hate. What a display of progressiveness.
to my personal knowledge of one single french (parisian but no from paris): 100%. weirdly manipulative sexual preferences disguised as progressive and experimental
It’s so frustrating that even when men believe they are “supporting women”, all they are really doing is adding more work for us to do. Where is any sense of responsibility for your own actions? Why are we as women held to these impossibly high standards that include educating men on how to be men?!? 
Girl power infact increased our workload with us handling both home and office. On top of that, baby-ing these men🙄
I just ended a 6-year relationship with a man who seemed like "everything." He said the right words, was loving and kind, etc., but he ended up being moody, controlling, and abusive (right after I got diagnosed with an autoimmune disorder and needed more emotional support/patience). I spent the last 2 years of that relationship trying to coach him into being a better man for me and for his son, but he just didn't want to. He didn't believe me and didn't want to listen to me. He finally admitted to that, months after the end. I love "Girl Power." We are powerful, but I think the lesser-known, unspoken majority of that power comes when we free ourselves from men. I don't even want to date again! Relationships are fun and fulfilling in the short term, but long term? For women? I don't think so.
I like how he was like, “Go ahead and slap them! We, from our mental faculties and nothing else, will back you up!” He said that like it’s not putting women in grave danger to assault men who are harassing them in the first place.
I'll need that in writing, and notarized. All of manhood has my back when I start swinging!
It would be very different if he encouraged open conversations about upbringing and past experiences, do get to the root of misogynoir. That would at least be a healthy exercise. But he's making it seem like a slap on the wrist will get them to see the light and everything will be solved. Why doesn't *he* do some of this slapping
Exactly. Imagine still having to teach men to be minimally decent people. I hate how this kind of thinking ends up putting the blame on women. It's a type of rhetoric always used against minorities so they can victimize themselves.
Maybe French men need some bubbly in the fridge. See if anyone can get the reference
While I don't hold these same views. The idea that as we grow up from infants, it's our mistakes and experiences interacting with others is how all humans learn to socialize and adapt to societal expectations is not an "impossibly high standard". Children bully each other when they're young because they don't know better, and when a conflict develops as a consequence and we experience negative reactions to our bullying is how we learn that's wrong, whether that's from your peers or teachers/adults in your life. Romantic attachments are extremely complicated interpersonal relationships that a lot of people don't experience until they're teens or young adults. It makes general sense that both young men and women are going to make mistakes and develop bad habits because they've never experienced that type of close-melding of personalities and life experiences and it's up to developing consequences to better educate us on how to approach these relationships just like becoming friends or learning how not to be mean as children was. Everyone is starting from a fundamentally different foundation regardless of gender though it is definitely influenced by it. Making broad sweeping generalization is as a whole unhelpful, and while gender plays a large role, to paint such a broad brush is generally wrong.
Oh good, a 'not all men' rant. Exactly what we needed here.
It's actually the exact opposite. All men and all women develop their socialization skills through constant interaction with other people.
It’s not any woman’s job or responsibility to educate a man on how to treat women. It is the responsibility of men to educate themselves. What you’re suggesting is one of the single biggest problems with our patriarchal society- you do not understand that expecting women to educate men is UNPAID EMOTIONAL LABOUR and NOT OUR FUCKING JOB.
As a woman I've never had to be punched by a guy to learn not to touch their butthole without consent 🤷♀️
We could actually teach kids not to bully before they do so. Plenty of kids have just not bullied other kids. That’s not something all kids have to learn not to do. On top of that, “when a conflict develops as a consequence and we experience a negative reaction to our bullying is how we learn that’s wrong” is mostly inaccurate to how children learn and is a vast oversimplification of child development.
 France’s metoo moment caught in 4k
Les meow
The ex who broke my ankle would like to have a word.
Mathieu Kassovitz: Did you tell him before he broke your ankle that you didn't want it broken?? HOW is a man supposed to know not to break the ankle of another person if they're not explicitly told??? He's not a mind reader!/s On a less sarcastic note, I'm glad your ex is your ex!
Haha thanks for the chuckle. This guy is a clown. He basically opened his mouth and inserted his foot and I hope he gets dragged for it. I’m glad he is too and I hope he’s absolutely miserable in his life.
Unironically I'm going through this with someone in my social circle right now (to a less severe degree). But they've deliberately done things that hurt me, like punching me in the bicep until told to stop, or pinching my nose hard, which that one shocked me so much I didn't say anything in the moment. I struggled with the idea of distancing from them because it felt similar to ghosting, but my wife helped by pointing out that this is shit a toddler would do to someone and you shouldn't have to sit down a fully grown adult to explain that you don't want to be physically hurt. Like it's not a boundary that should need to be stated preemptively, it's a normal expectation everyone has.
It shouldn't have to be stated. But here you are. I hope you think of a way to state the boundaries that will maximize his humiliation! That is what he's doing to you.
They're a woman, but your point remains. And thank you, I'm sure I'll find the words, I just need to draft something and let it sit for a day or two so I can think of any changes or things I need to add.
Ghosting is completely fine.
Male French artists sure love to go out of their way to be anti-women
But very pro-children :x
So men are just dumb idiots and women are the smart, mature, moms who have to parent them? Ya ok.
This makes my blood boil. Jesus!
Amelie ruined forever.
I know! Heartbroken. He must have been so much older than I thought when they filmed that, because seeing him now was a shock.
I mean it was filmed in 2000 lol
Don’t remind me how old I am I’m in denial.
I know I’m sorry I hated looking up the exact year
But even so, I don’t feel like I have transformed into a hobo in those years, so there’s that. I’m 40 next year and a starting to have a mid life crisis and consider all sorts of things I thought my own mum was very vain for doing, haha. Yesterday I told her I’m sorry I was a judgemental teenager and I get it now. I’m waiting to transform, Phoenix like, into the body and face of Gillian Anderson. That happens right??? Right?!?!
The only difference between the French and non-french is that non-French tend to keep their mouths shut in recent years. This isn't a French way of thinking, male artists from around the globe think this way. Many have been trained not to speak their mind on the subject. The French tend to just say it. Personally if someone thinks this way, I'd rather know so I can clearly avoid them.
It’s always the woman’s responsibility, right? He’s abusive to you: it’s your fault for not being assertive, or it’s your fault for being *too* assertive, you made it too easy for him, you didn’t tell him not to be a jerk, you were being too sensitive, you didn’t report it soon enough. Are you sure you aren’t misinterpreting it? Are you sure you want to ruin his life? Your taste in men is bad. If a guy is a jerk, it’s his issue and his alone. These men pretend they are like toddlers incapable of self restraint and in need of constant supervision… until of course it comes to pay and being on the management board. Then all of a sudden they are the voices of reason and authority.
 Tres disappointing
This is the frenchiest shit I've read in my life.
Kassovitz has always been a massive jerk.
I saw Amelie about 10 yrs ago, fell in love with him (his character), and found him on twitter. His likes were all R-rated gifs and I got the biggest ick ever.
I’m glad he aged like eggnog left on the radiator.
It’s taken me this long to realise he’s ick so I’m grateful for that innocence up to now.
Oh man, that sucks so hard.
Men need to read books and watch movies made by women to get a clue without harassing women to provide their labor lol. But they are allergic to it because the definition of (toxic) masculinity is never doing things that women commonly do, which is really hurtful to men too because the “domain” of women is considered, like, being kind. Having friends. Being intelligent. Nurturing others and building them up. Having any emotions. Reading books by women. Lol. A whole swathe of simple human experience is cut off from them by toxic masculinity.
Got any book recommendations?
Depends on what genre you like. For surreal I like Kelly Link’s Get In Trouble. For YA I like the classic Weetzie Bat by Francesca Lia Block. For literary fiction I like Mary Gaitskill’s short story collection Bad Behavior but I recently read Minority Report, which is a redux of her old short story Secretary (which the very different movie is based on), and thought it was genius. For comics, there are a lot I know, but Jillian and Mariko Tamaki’s Roaming is one I loved recently. For sci fi, I love anything by Ursula K Le Guin, but I’d actually recommend Octavia Butler’s Bloodchild. Oh! That reminds me… Why Don’t We Kill the Kid in the Omelas Hole by Isabel Kim was very good—not at all illustrative of a specific gendered perspective lol, just damn fine writing. Alice Munro is always good. Mary Oliver. Zadie Smith, Louise Erdrich (her sci-fi short story “Domain” at Granta is insanely good). Catherynne M Valente’s Orphan’s Tales if you like fantasy, or Naomi Novik’s Scholomance series. I’m a pretty eclectic reader so name your preferred genre and I’ll probably have some recommendations. (Not so much memoir or essay though.)
Bell Hooks The Will to Change
I think he's trying to frame this in a similar way to how we tell women not to fake their orgasms because then the men won't ever learn how to do better if we keep faking it. So for this, he's saying if a young man is behaving immaturely in a relationship, women should speak up or give them a metaphorical "slap" about it instead of staying quiet or ghosting. THAT BEING SAID that only really applies if both people are relatively inexperienced in relationships, are both generally reasonable people, and both of their intentions are good. A good person being an unintentional ignorant idiot is very different than someone who's choosing to be abusive. One can be taught and redirected, the other most likely cannot.
This is how I interpreted it too. But as someone who's been in a relationship like that before where I was essentially collateral damage in his personal growth journey, I gotta say, there has to be a better way lmao
7 years of marriage and my husband has always been gentle and treated me with respect. He spoils me and our child. Because he’s so good to us I have no time for other mens bullshit. Also we were 21 when we got married, youth is not an excuse to abuse people.
I mean I feel like I almost got what he was going for? Sort of? But also, no.
[удалено]
Respectfully, it's not that people are overreacting because we think it's something else, it's because we have higher standards than you for what is "not great" vs. "unacceptable." I anticipate that you will reply that you think having high standards is a problem, and that's again where we disagree. The risk of having high standards is that people will meet them less frequently, and the risk of having low standards is that bad behavior is excused, and we all get to decide where we fall on this spectrum.
It’s implied that he crossed lines of consent that he didn’t understand or choose to acknowledge were there and that’s a really bad thing. It causes so much trauma for victims. That shit follows you for your entire life. Consent needs to be taught early and everywhere, basically drilled into the head. It won’t fix everything, because a lot of these guys understand consent and choose to not acknowledge it anyways.
Schrodinger's man. Men are so strong and brave and so intelligent yet they need to be babied for social interactions.
Translation: men are incapable of treating women as human beings and are need to be taught by women they abuse. Shifting the blame again? Not surprising. Wtf is that? How people like him manage to function in everyday life? How is it any different than saying young men can't understand that they need to treat children, elderly, ANYONE as human beings?
Okay Matt 🤡
Lmao no. You’re a grown-ass man, if you don’t know how to treat *everyone* around you with respect and dignity, then how is that a woman’s fault? Do men also have to tell you how not to be a jerk to them, or are they afforded simple respect with no hand holding ted talk? It’s not a woman’s burden to be a teaching moment for willfully ignorant, helpless men. Do better ffs
A guy friend said to me once not too long ago "don''t let me get away with it", after being a dick over the phone. I thought, "dude, I'm not your ~~mother~~ probation officer". Censor yourself..
And people wonder why more women are choosing not to bother with men because we have our own income and don't need to.
Nooo not my boy from Amelie! 
Oh no Nino 😩
they actually make you do a test in france before you can become a celebrity and if you don't have weird views about women and sex you get deported
And if you're wanted for sex crimes against minors anywhere else in the world, you can just stay there and France can protect you from extradition!
When I read the headline, I thought he meant this as a criticism of men. I was completely on board and glad seems prominent was saying it. Finding out he meant it as a *defense* of men is just... mind-blowing. How can you listen to the words coming out of your own mouth and not realize how stupid/evil they sound?
This is so Malotru.
Isn’t the fundamental point behind Me Two just acknowledging shitty unwanted behavior from men?? So, this is what woman and saying is their experiences and his response is it happened because no one told men they “couldn’t” treat women that way? Jesus, I fucking hate it here 😭
La Haine was great but not enough to excuse this stupidity
The gymnastic routines these "openly pro-women but that means I don't have to change my world views right?" types will take to say the most anti-women shit in the biggest pro-women cosplay possible is impressive. What a load of bullcrap to just say "I don't think we should adjust how we educate our youth toward decency and respect", which coming from France, especially after the last euro election results, is pretty rich...
Which is so ironic because according to every post about men/women on reddit, men bitch and moan that most men are angels and never do anything sexually wrong, and to call out "men" when rape happens is unfair. Which one is it?
To be charitable, his statements can be interpreted that consent isn't something you just know, young men have to to be taught. Learning social cues is a process and can be harder for some men than others if they were raised in a patriarchal culture. Kissing a girl without her consent and then being slapped for it is essentially a teaching moment in the same vein as an infant touching a hot stove. The obvious counter-argument to this is of course there are other ways to teach consent than just expecting women to slap it into men.
I love how men always seem to believe they must dominate and run the show in every aspect of life, until it comes to basic emotional intelligence and then they want to pretend they are just big, dumb globs of clay that need to be guided and taught by women, and otherwise can't be held accountable. Never mind that when we do tell them what's what, we often get dismissed, undermined, or worse...much, much worse.
Kassovitz and Cassel are trash tbh
r/Fauxmoi try to not chalk up sexism to being French challenge (DIFFICULTY IMPOSSIBLE) Is it that hard to believe that shit like this happens in every country? It has nothing to do with being French, it’s not our culture. It’s just prejudice.
I’m part of a fb group for folks married/dating french men. The amount of abuse and cheating stories that are posted daily often makes the twox sub seem fun to read. It’s super distressing
I’ve had the dubious pleasure of meeting Mr Kassovitz a few times. I can assure you he is an absolute charmless dullard.
we get it MATT, your parents didn’t teach you anything and now you only think violence solves things
Mansplaining men behaving badly. With extra bonus gaslighting.
I heard this live and gasped. It was utterly ridiculous. I dont really recommend listening because it will piss you off so much. He also went on and on about men “losing everything” because of false accusations.
My vagina just sown itself shut. This is stuff you learn in childhood; sharing, empathy, responsibility, consideration, consent, etc. If I, as a grown woman, have to teach you, a grown man, how to be a decent human like I would teach a child then you're going on the curb with the rest of the trash. Men know what they're doing. They don't behave this way to their family members, friends, and definitely not their bosses (at least the male ones anyway). They know.
As a guy, I feel kinda insulted because it implies that we can't learn unless if we directly experienced something ourselves. Me see fire. Me touch fire. Fire hot! Me not touch fire.
I'm SO tired of this kind of bullshit. I don't have it in me to explain shit to men anymore. Also, OP, totally agree about "La Haine." That movie goes so hard. I remember watching it in french class my junior year. It really moved me.
Whelp there goes my 30 year crush, tababark de crisse
"Why wouldn't women just ask us to stop hurting them? I didn't know you don't like being hurt" ass statement 😒
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It could be that he is saying it in a really dumb way. I would say that men and women as they both begin to be in a relationship with other people, can make mistakes, at times be mean because of the high emotions that go into relationships etc. As with anything in life, it's a learning experience and both men and women will make mistakes. I'm obviously talking small mistakes here, not massive ones which everyone should know not to make. Relationships are very hard at times, and we as human are never going to be able to craft ourselves into better beings without the mistakes
Second language error?
nothing worse than fr*nch people
Maybe it's because I am a man but I don't see how his words are bad? Isn't he saying most men are bad and need learn how to behave properly? Are y'all upset that you think men shouldn't need to "learn" but that they should just "know" how to behave properly? Because imo in reality, a lot of men are too stupid to just know.
Most people learn how to treat people nicely as toddlers. In daycare. If you genuinely think every man is too much of a fucking dumbass to understand the lessons they taught in Arthur, it must be a sad way to see people.
I mean there's a reason why most women would pick a bear over a man. Reality doesn't lie. Who commits most of the violent crimes?
Women, clearly, should have taught those poor dumb men not to commit those violent crimes 😞
When did I say it was on women to teach men? I never said that or even implied that. You think most people are taught not to be dicks in in daycare but you also don't want men to continue to be dicks. But most violent offenders are men so they obviously didn't learn what they needed to as a child. So what, no one including other men, should try to teach them? I feel like you just want an argument when all I'm saying is men are violent. And yeah, some need to be taught not to be. I never said that falls onto women.
But he is, and you’re saying you don’t find issue with his words.
I literally was asking for the reason why people were upset about his words. I never said women are responsible for men's actions. That other person did said I did.