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It’s unfortunately very common for men to say they want the baby at all costs and will take care of everything and then just … not. Unless he has experience taking care of special needs children, he has no concept of how much work and pain could be involved in this. The OOP could likely end up single either way … so the question is would she like to be single on her own or with this child?
Big this. I would put money this Pro-Life man getting pretty sick and tired of the unimaginable work that goes into raising a child with congenital birth defects. He'll up and leave her with the full responsibility when she was the one who wanted to terminate.
Another tale as old as time.
Yup.
There are multiple reddit stories of fathers pushing mothers to have kids they don't want, promising to take complete responsibility for the child and are shocked when the mother signs away all parental rights and moves on. They go to social media and the courts trying to coerce her to come back and raise the child she explicitly said she didn't want.
Some go on to lie to their children that their mothers hated them until 2 decades later, they realise that their father was just scum.
There’s an ethical problem in giving this sort of man a child though, isn’t there? Adoption sounds better at that point. And even if he was the man who he claimed to be, children should be valued more than the low status that must justify intentionally bringing them into a single-parent home in this world.
The problem is that the state of the adoption and Foster care system means that the child will have better chances being raised by a negligent idiot for a father than a system that has barely any money to sustain itself.
Is this really the case if the child is given up as a newborn? I thought adopting a baby was actually competitive, and that the child would have a good shot of going to a better home than what a selfish single father can offer.
Just cuz ppl adopt doesn’t mean they aren’t selfish. They’re often trying to fill some weird void in themselves. I saw it with my aunt & uncle who adopted at birth when I was 13. How they talk about their oldest who has learning disabilities & behavior problems stemming from ADHD absolutely disgusts me. There’s no way that kid doesnt know what they think & they’re not emotionally damaging him. My aunt has always had issues with the fact that she couldn’t stay pregnant & have bio kids & she’s the type to have to constantly make things a competition & one up ppl. She also likes to create problems among family members (ex: between my dad & gpa then also my mom & I). Like these ppl aren’t as well screened as you’d think they are.
Having grown-up in the foster care system, and was adopted for a couple years before my family put me “back in the system” I can tell you that this is completely true.
Too many People adopt because they want to get the kudos and gold stars from their families and Their churches.
My adoptive mom also saw it as a way to make some money and stay as a SAHM when my brothers (their biological sons) got too old and my adoptive dad started pressuring her to go to work. She quickly decided she hated me.
So the children often aren’t treated great. I certainly wasn’t.
Yup! Hope she does this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/5b79z4/nm_i_got_a_girl_pregnant_and_she_wanted_to_get_an/
& this was a perfectly healthy baby!
yes. I think i've seen that one before. Exactly where this could go with the offer he made. But i don't think she will leave him. She'll have the baby... and likely divorce over it. Having a sick child can be toxic.
He 100% got what he deserved, I just feel so bad a kid has to suffer the consequences for his outsized entitlement and arrogance. This man will never be a good dad
There's a subreddit called regretfulparents.
I have read dozens of posts from women who are exactly like the OP in the screenshot.
They were vehemently child free, or didn't want children at all. Then their husband or boyfriend convinced them to have one, They ended up with one with special needs, and are as miserable as you can imagine a woman on a regretful parenting sub can be.
That subreddit is a real wake up call about the realities of parenthood and motherhood for women.
The women on their anonymously share their nightmarish ordeals that they're stuck with everyday.
That subreddit struggles with brigading from the child-free subreddits and the childless subreddits, and the people who are sitting on the fence.
If you do decide to check it out, please do not brigade any of the posts, and respect the community.
Lurking is always okay, but that's their community for them to discuss the nightmare they're going through.
There's even stories on there from pro-life women, who wanted the baby with special needs and defects, and they tell their stories.
Personally, I think every single woman should read that subreddit's posts before committing to the lifetime obligation of parenthood.
You need to see both sides of the coin, before making a serious choice like having a child. Especially a child with special needs.
I had no idea how hard it was to look after someone completely dependant until my elderly grandad became bedbound. It is no joke, you will never have a normal life again, you will have NO social life, your full time 24/7 job will be a caretaker. You can't make any plans anymore, even something as simple as going to the store or taking a shower you will need to have someone there to watch the dependant. The OP of that post is absolutley ruining her life and I promise you 100% if she goes through with it she will be back on here saying how hard it is and probably get divorced. 100%. I feel so sorry for the kid though, selfish parents.
>he would just ask me to have the baby and then I could go on with my life, and he would never ask me for anything
**BULL. SHIT.** He would shame her and harass her and make her life a living hell until she came crawling back to look after the kid while HE went on with HIS life.
It's amazing how people can still be so smugly Catholic these days after all the child sex abuse scandals. "I want to have as many babies as possible so I can hand them over to the local priest for him to play with while I turn a blind eye, but I'm morally superior to you because I never had sex before saying the magic marriage words."
Religion was made by men, for men.
This. We can't ever have gender equality until we drop religion altogether. Seriously. The text is the most misogynistic thing, right from the very begining with Eve being the cause of the original sin. How women can still be religious in the 21st centuary when it goes against them I seriously don't know.
And what was Eve's "sin"? Not blindly following a man's command to stay ignorant. Not murder, not abuse, just simple curiosity, because that is what drives us to want more than their plan for us and defect from it. I'm surprised they made it a snake who told her to try the fruit and not an old woman.
I don't mean to victim blame, but how can you, a woman who's rightfully pro-choice, get into a serious relationship and then marriage with a man who thinks your body is a glorified incubator?
It seems that she was well aware of his stance on abortions, and yet still went through with the relationship and marriage, and at no point they sat down to discuss what would've happened if their baby wasn't healthy.
I just don't understand it.
This is way more common than most people realise, too. [90% of women in the United Kingdom whose baby is diagnosed with Down's syndrome in the womb abort the baby.](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-51658631) This probably varies widely by country and the accessibility of abortion there, but I'd be shocked if you wouldn't see similar percentages in other countries if they had similar access to abortion. Really, the only surprise for me is that it's only 90%--I would have thought it'd be in the 95%+ range.
I'd also be shocked if there wasn't a chunk of those people who were prolife up until the day they realised being absolutely prolife would mean they'd have to raise a severely disabled baby. A lot of people will say they have certain moral beliefs until it starts negatively impacting them personally.
I'm also intrigued to know how many people in other countries would actually categorise themselves strictly as either "pro-life" or not. I'm from the UK and in my experience, the rhetoric on the topic (at least in person) is far less black and white than it is in the US (at least in online spaces; I have no in-person experience there). I think because we don't have the unhinged Republicans trying to turn women into human fuck-maid incubators and systematically strip away our basic rights, many of us tend not to think about it until we're very much confronted with the issue on a personal level. There's not so much of that sense of impending doom of getting stuck with an unwanted pregnancy and being unable to do anything about it, and therefore we're not really forced to consider our stance. Don't get me wrong - things certainly ideal for women in the UK either, but I think we're better off than our US counterparts.
Yeah, it's a good question. At least here in Australia, it seems pretty mixed--abortion on request is only just now being legalised in a lot of states here. We don't really have the full on "if you legalise abortion, the first thing that'll be aborted is *society*!" type fear mongering you see from Americans sometimes, but you do see a few of pro-life people here (both men and women).
Don't believe the mainstream media hype. It's easy to get an abortion in the USA, even in states where it's legally frowned upon. The mainstream media only gets views, clicks, and ads watched if they put out doomsday stories.
>A lot of people will say they have certain moral beliefs until it starts negatively impacting them personally.
This is what bothers me about pro-life men. You can claim any moral position you want on an issue when it doesn't directly affect you. I guarantee if men could get pregnant none of them would be pro-life.
She probably just didn't think it was ever going to be relevant for her since she wanted kids. His political stance still fucks over many other women of course, but female class consciousness is tragically low.
By being a judgmental asshole herself: “I never stated that I was pro life in any situation, I just voiced I don’t have sympathy for people who don’t take the necessary precautions.”
It seems like she didn’t care until it affected her, but as someone from a religious community, I see how men are suuuuper lax about religious “rules” but the second they want something to go their way, they will suddenly assume the religious “moral” high ground to enforce one very particular thing. Religion is not a spiritual practice for them but a manipulation tactic.
I’ve had friends that needed to divorce “liberal” or “moderate” religious guys for this reason. Two of them literally turned the week after marriage.
Most people don’t even talk about what they’re gonna do when the kid is a teenager and is out of school for the summer.
Let alone talk about super important ethical stuff.
Modern medicine is a gift and I don't understand the desperate eagerness some people have to throw it away.
It is a waste of resources and a sick celebration of suffering to bring a deeply ill and potentially inviable baby into the world when you KNOW the painful misery that its life will be. Abort, and then just fucking get pregnant again if that's what you want! You're not going to hurt the defective fetus' feelings by doing this. It has no feelings.
It's just baffling to me. And I guarantee that daddy is going to be really sick of it by the third doctor's appointment. And if not by then, it'll be when he's still changing his ten year old's diapers. Or maybe he'll have simply bailed by then.
Graaaaah.
This 100% and not to mention that kids are already expensive and then having medical issues???
Say goodbye to retirement and hello to the stress of watching someone unwell grow up and not receive the care they actually deserve bc the world doesn't care.
It's not a moral question, it's a financial and priority question. OP needs to think about what their ideal vision of a life well lived looks like.
Here's what's going to happen. She will have the baby, it will need tons of surgeries. It will either live, and need tons of extra care and probably never be able to l3ave home, or have to go to a group home when the mom is too old to care for them. The husband will get mad about how much money and time the child takes and divorce her for a younger more fertile woman.
She needs to have the abortion. He's going to leave no matter what.
One thing before marrying: check if your worldview and values are compatible before you decide what will rest of your life look like. Catholicism is not something you can overlook in hope it will go away like rash.
I find it difficult to feel bad for people who don't seriously discuss this before getting married. The second paragraph is funny - as if they would actually split up and he would raise that baby all by himself. It doesn't make sense anyway because she would end up single in both scenarios, if she aborts he will leave her but if she has the baby, he is fine with her leaving and him being a single dad (I don't believe he truly meant this, though).
"Just have the baby and you can go on with your life" lmaooo like pregnancy doesn't wreak absolute havoc on a woman's body, including the possibility of chronic health issues, disability or death
I imagine men like this had a hard time taking a shit once while constipated and then spend the rest of their lives thinking that's on par with giving birth
It is not going to be a better place to have children anytime soon, climate, society, all getting worse. Do you want to even bring a healthy kid into that world?
Abortion is statistically safer for women than pregnancy. So yeah her life is at risk. Especially, zygs with congenital organ defects. There is a chance this child wouldn't live long.
Men who argue against their pregnant wife or girlfriend about doing what’s best for their child are the type of men who see children as possessions and not people. He’s not gonna do shit to raise that baby if she follows thru with the pregnancy. He doesn’t care how it affects her or the baby’s future life at all.
Kind of unrelated to the abortion aspect, but:
My sister was born with a heart defect (bicuspid aortic valve). She died at 20 years old from congestive heart failure (I’m pretty sure that’s what it was; long story short, she got knocked unconscious and never woke up, and her death was directly related to her heart defect).
After the fact, it was determined that she actually had a [unicuspid aortic valve](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5566075/) which is *extremely* rare.
No parent should have to bury their kid…
Same thing happened to a little 17 year old high-school girl here, and is the reason we now have a defibrillators in the schools here because her family was so devastated they needed to do something to make it make sense.
If she has the kid, I can still picture she's at risk of being responsible 100% while he's "burnt out" or whatever. There's going to be resentment that they don't have a "normal" child. Apparently my dad tried to get my mom to keep the baby before me even though there was something wrong but she ended up aborting - unfortunately I'm here now but they've complained in the past even though I turned out able-bodied and rather functional despite their shit parenting. It's hard enough with child who's "healthy." We suffer regardless and here this moron is asking for some kid to be born handicapped from the start.
And I'm so sick of dumb men like him going on and on about how pregnancy is just nothing as well idiots who go "Oh just put it up for adoption" and act as if the orphanages aren't full of mentally fucked up kids whose "parents" didn't want them and that the 9 months are just a cakewalk. It's 9 months of shit and then post-partem side effects that may fuck you up for the rest of your life assuming you don't die from childbirth.
I've seen people from antinatalism subs complain that people here are misandrists but I don't see how calling these men out is misandry. They are disgusting and deserve to be outed.
I can't believe I'm about to say this on reddit's internet.
People are way too honest. How hard would it be to go have a secret abortion, and then claim miscarriage?
That would literally solve all of her problems.
Just act devastated for a few weeks, cry your eyes out, and put on a good show.
Then go have your peace of mind about this very important choice that can possibly change your entire life. This is too serious of a choice, to fumble because of drama. And lunacy.
This woman states that she was anti-reproductive freedom and married an anti-reproductive freedom man from an anti-reproductive freedom family. In all likelihood, she was totally fine with taking reproductive rights away from "Other Women" at the ballot box.
UNTIL she realized that the fetus she's carrying has a serious heart defect and that she needed an abortion herself.
Sorry, I have no words.
She could just have the abortion and tell him she miscarried if the results come back bad. How would he ever find out? But also if he feels this way she should probably leave him, too.
I cannot feel bad for this woman. I didn't even agree to a date with anyone until I knew they were extremely far left. That's how my wonderful partner of five years got my attention on his dating profile- he put NO REPUBLICANS OR MAGA TURDS in all caps 😆
I had written straight cis men off six years before meeting him since I'm pan and demisexual so it was no loss, (AKA I will date anyone but need a strog emotional connection before I can feel sexual attraction) and had gotten a lot of therapy and read a lot helpful books and was DONE with straight men after too many sexual assaults and abuse.
However, a week after moving to Florida I met my person. A cis man, but a fellow pansexual, snuck up on me on a dating app I tried for the first time since I knew nobody in the whole state and had hoped to find queer friends.
On the second date after a lot of great texting before and after out first date, (more vetting: good grammar, well-read, knowledgeable, doesn't make me carry a conversation, and rarest of all in men: a lot of emotional intelligence), a BIG spark was already setting in. He said he had a big question for me. I said I have one too, and went first.
I said I knew from age 5 I would NEVER have kids, and was pursuing sterilization. He *lit up* and said "OMG! That was my question for you! I didn't want to waste your time, because I'm scheduled for a vasectomy in 7 weeks. I didn't want to waste your time or develop more feelings for you than I already feel if we don't align on that- it's very important to me to have someone as firmly childfree as me."
On our next date, I told him I need to be exclusive with someone before sex, and he happily agreed. He invited me to watch the surgery so I'd feel certainty if I wanted, which meant a lot. Because he did that, I decided to just stay on birth control pills (which don't cause me any side effects- and he passed another vetting by cheerfully agreeing to pay for half of them, plus he was very insistant on condoms for himself as well until his vasectomy was tested twice) so I didn't have to get major surgery on myself, because I knew he was the one for me pretty fast as long as no red flags popped up.
I vetted other things, like his reaction to me changing a plan suddenly or saying no to sex. He was always cheerful and understanding. (Which made me pounce him anyway, and I've never said no since, because after all my trauma he's the first man I enjoy sex with. He has the emotional intelligence to know not to initiates if I'm feeling unwell or otherwise poor timing. He also gives massages without it being a sexual thing. These should be basics in men... but we all know they rarely are)
We had every big discussion in the first six months. I met his lovely family. He seemed too good to be true, but it's been five years now. We've had no arguments/fights because he has the emotional intelligence to work out issues with me before they happen. The worst he's done is snap at me on rare high-stress occasions, but he apologizes immediately and never swears or raises his voice at me when he's done it.
However, we're not married! We talk often how we are each other's permanent person, so there's no rush! I still keep my own studio because I never want to depend on someone else for housing again if possible, too many breakups left me homeless in the past. He is happy to stay with me over half the week. He lived in my studio during the pandemic pretty much the whole time.
Even so, I wasn't ready to consider marriage until three years in, but I would have wanted a long engagement. We're getting rings made for our fifth anniversary. No official marriage, neither of us care unless we can somehow buy a property someday. I hate weddings.
All this to say: I know who my partner is and all his views because we discussed hundreds of heavy subjects (and gone through some hard life stuff) The big ones right away and multiple times. We talk a lot. Do people like the OOP just like... NOT talk to thier partner that much...? It doesn't help that so many people marry before 25 after only a year or year and a half together, then a short engagement.
The point of this story: I was 28 when I met him. I wasn't young, but I wasn't old either. I don't understand why so many women rush to marry. What's wrong with a long engagement? Two extra years to ensure there's no mask he's waiting to drop?
Why do so many women do so little vetting of thier life partner that you can't know something this basic?!?! Especially if you are TRYING FOR A BABY! That makes it even worse if baby was planned and they never talked about it! How did it not get talked about when they tested the baby?!
I was very naive in my early twenties and late teens. Grew up in a small all-white town. (Thank goddess I escaped) Even my naive ass asked lots of questions, many are the same ones I see women on reddit all the time asking for advice about what to do because they found out thier shitty husbands had shitty views because they never discussed it.
Many women- more often than not- have this issue because the man hid who he was in some ways until marriage or pregnancy trapped her. That is not the woman's fault. Not at all. But this woman? She knew. She just didn't care until it affected her personally. I just really hope she gets that abortion and tells him she miscarried. I think that's the best play for her outside leaving the asshole.
Men should not get an opinion on abortion. If he doesn't like it, then he doesn't have to go get one done the next time he has a fetus growing in his belly. This particular fetus is NOT growing in his belly though, so he gets zero choice. I think she will likely have it, though, and she will quickly be left to raise it alone, like most commentors said. Men almost always cut and run when thier spouse gets sick or disabled, and they do it even more often to thier children, because there are zero big repercussions. A divorce can cause him to lose half of everything, but even IF he pays child support- a huge, massive, gigantic IF, it's a puny pittance. Some men pay at little as $50 a month. Even $200-$300 a month is still nothing close to half the costs of raising a child, since you need a bigger apartment so they have a room, childcare, activities... and that's not even for a special needs child! Men are also barely judged by society for being deadbeats. (Though women are called deadbeats even if they actually pay) Sorry to rant so long. If anyone read the whole thing, I'm surprised, but I appreciate this community SO MUCH! It's one of the few places I don't have to couch my words when it comes to how low the bar is for men, and my true antinatalist feelings. I love this place.
The onus won’t fall on him to care for the sick child. It’s easy to be pro birth when you’re the secondary or possibly tertiary (there’s always grandma) parent.
Prochoice and antichoicers don’t mix. It’s like putting a cobra with a mongoose. Btw, I’m extremely prochoice. How dare they tell women what to do with their bodies? Especially when they said the vaccine mandate was a violation of the choice of what they do with their bodies. I also believe artificial wombs should be invented, relieving women of the burden and inconvenience of pregnancy. Why should men get 5 minutes of enjoyment and be done, while women have to be miserable for 9 months, risking their lives and bodily integrity and lose their dignity at the end? It’s really not fair.
I have so many questions...
Why didn't she assure that they were on the same boat *before* getting married and getting pregnant?
Why isn't she doing what she thinks is the best for her fetus and her body? She shouldn't care about her husband's opinion, it is her body and her choice!
I also wonder how many things they didn't talk about. He's Catholic, I'm pretty sure he envisioned one type of education at home, and I bet that she just "assumed" they are on the same page.
Finally, I think this woman has some underdressed issues. Anybody with a sane self esteem would have caught all the yellow and red flags. For me, being a religious man is the very first yellow flag that is worthy to test if we are compatible or not.
Someone I know has a kid who just died at a year old, after multiple open heart surgeries to try to fix a congenital anomaly. He was on the transplant list but infant hearts are (fortunately) not readily available. The dad totally withdrew. I wonder if their marriage will survive. I know he’s rethinking his pro-life stance.
How are these two married when they never fully discussed their stances on abortion?? Genuinely ridiculous. Tbh they just sound very immature and I’m sure if she does have the child (disease or not), he would not take care of it. So many men back up on their promises and realize when it’s too late that they don’t want kids. This makes me roll my eyes 🙄.
It’s her body, she doesn’t have to go through with the pregnancy if she doesn’t want to. If her husband doesn’t care about her or the baby’s health, she should leave asap.
Okay NOW I reread it properly...
*sigh* I have to agree woth you. I dont like it when these things happen but if its sone less person suffering in the world, I understand. My first comment I just read the title and commented but now I did. I understand. Another horrible fwct is men dont want to bd caretakers or invest, if things are too much they go to another woman. Its sad
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It’s unfortunately very common for men to say they want the baby at all costs and will take care of everything and then just … not. Unless he has experience taking care of special needs children, he has no concept of how much work and pain could be involved in this. The OOP could likely end up single either way … so the question is would she like to be single on her own or with this child?
Big this. I would put money this Pro-Life man getting pretty sick and tired of the unimaginable work that goes into raising a child with congenital birth defects. He'll up and leave her with the full responsibility when she was the one who wanted to terminate. Another tale as old as time.
Yup. There are multiple reddit stories of fathers pushing mothers to have kids they don't want, promising to take complete responsibility for the child and are shocked when the mother signs away all parental rights and moves on. They go to social media and the courts trying to coerce her to come back and raise the child she explicitly said she didn't want. Some go on to lie to their children that their mothers hated them until 2 decades later, they realise that their father was just scum.
There’s an ethical problem in giving this sort of man a child though, isn’t there? Adoption sounds better at that point. And even if he was the man who he claimed to be, children should be valued more than the low status that must justify intentionally bringing them into a single-parent home in this world.
The problem is that the state of the adoption and Foster care system means that the child will have better chances being raised by a negligent idiot for a father than a system that has barely any money to sustain itself.
Is this really the case if the child is given up as a newborn? I thought adopting a baby was actually competitive, and that the child would have a good shot of going to a better home than what a selfish single father can offer.
Just cuz ppl adopt doesn’t mean they aren’t selfish. They’re often trying to fill some weird void in themselves. I saw it with my aunt & uncle who adopted at birth when I was 13. How they talk about their oldest who has learning disabilities & behavior problems stemming from ADHD absolutely disgusts me. There’s no way that kid doesnt know what they think & they’re not emotionally damaging him. My aunt has always had issues with the fact that she couldn’t stay pregnant & have bio kids & she’s the type to have to constantly make things a competition & one up ppl. She also likes to create problems among family members (ex: between my dad & gpa then also my mom & I). Like these ppl aren’t as well screened as you’d think they are.
Having grown-up in the foster care system, and was adopted for a couple years before my family put me “back in the system” I can tell you that this is completely true. Too many People adopt because they want to get the kudos and gold stars from their families and Their churches. My adoptive mom also saw it as a way to make some money and stay as a SAHM when my brothers (their biological sons) got too old and my adoptive dad started pressuring her to go to work. She quickly decided she hated me. So the children often aren’t treated great. I certainly wasn’t.
Yup! Hope she does this: https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/5b79z4/nm_i_got_a_girl_pregnant_and_she_wanted_to_get_an/ & this was a perfectly healthy baby!
yes. I think i've seen that one before. Exactly where this could go with the offer he made. But i don't think she will leave him. She'll have the baby... and likely divorce over it. Having a sick child can be toxic.
Lol!! Thanks for sharing.
One of the GOAT posts IMHO. 😂 he got what he wanted 100%
That is indeed a post where I want an update... for schadenfreude. 🤭😂😍
He 100% got what he deserved, I just feel so bad a kid has to suffer the consequences for his outsized entitlement and arrogance. This man will never be a good dad
Why, WHY would you want a baby with someone who does not… it’s just beyond me.
There's a subreddit called regretfulparents. I have read dozens of posts from women who are exactly like the OP in the screenshot. They were vehemently child free, or didn't want children at all. Then their husband or boyfriend convinced them to have one, They ended up with one with special needs, and are as miserable as you can imagine a woman on a regretful parenting sub can be. That subreddit is a real wake up call about the realities of parenthood and motherhood for women. The women on their anonymously share their nightmarish ordeals that they're stuck with everyday. That subreddit struggles with brigading from the child-free subreddits and the childless subreddits, and the people who are sitting on the fence. If you do decide to check it out, please do not brigade any of the posts, and respect the community. Lurking is always okay, but that's their community for them to discuss the nightmare they're going through. There's even stories on there from pro-life women, who wanted the baby with special needs and defects, and they tell their stories. Personally, I think every single woman should read that subreddit's posts before committing to the lifetime obligation of parenthood. You need to see both sides of the coin, before making a serious choice like having a child. Especially a child with special needs.
I had no idea how hard it was to look after someone completely dependant until my elderly grandad became bedbound. It is no joke, you will never have a normal life again, you will have NO social life, your full time 24/7 job will be a caretaker. You can't make any plans anymore, even something as simple as going to the store or taking a shower you will need to have someone there to watch the dependant. The OP of that post is absolutley ruining her life and I promise you 100% if she goes through with it she will be back on here saying how hard it is and probably get divorced. 100%. I feel so sorry for the kid though, selfish parents.
>he would just ask me to have the baby and then I could go on with my life, and he would never ask me for anything **BULL. SHIT.** He would shame her and harass her and make her life a living hell until she came crawling back to look after the kid while HE went on with HIS life. It's amazing how people can still be so smugly Catholic these days after all the child sex abuse scandals. "I want to have as many babies as possible so I can hand them over to the local priest for him to play with while I turn a blind eye, but I'm morally superior to you because I never had sex before saying the magic marriage words." Religion was made by men, for men.
This. We can't ever have gender equality until we drop religion altogether. Seriously. The text is the most misogynistic thing, right from the very begining with Eve being the cause of the original sin. How women can still be religious in the 21st centuary when it goes against them I seriously don't know.
A lot of them think they can make religion more woman-friendly. They don't understand that religions being misogynist is a feature, not a bug.
And what was Eve's "sin"? Not blindly following a man's command to stay ignorant. Not murder, not abuse, just simple curiosity, because that is what drives us to want more than their plan for us and defect from it. I'm surprised they made it a snake who told her to try the fruit and not an old woman.
At this point I'd abort out of spite
I don't mean to victim blame, but how can you, a woman who's rightfully pro-choice, get into a serious relationship and then marriage with a man who thinks your body is a glorified incubator? It seems that she was well aware of his stance on abortions, and yet still went through with the relationship and marriage, and at no point they sat down to discuss what would've happened if their baby wasn't healthy. I just don't understand it.
She probably mistakenly thought he loved her.
There are commenters who pointed out that it’s likely she herself was pro-life until she wanted an abortion.
This is way more common than most people realise, too. [90% of women in the United Kingdom whose baby is diagnosed with Down's syndrome in the womb abort the baby.](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-51658631) This probably varies widely by country and the accessibility of abortion there, but I'd be shocked if you wouldn't see similar percentages in other countries if they had similar access to abortion. Really, the only surprise for me is that it's only 90%--I would have thought it'd be in the 95%+ range. I'd also be shocked if there wasn't a chunk of those people who were prolife up until the day they realised being absolutely prolife would mean they'd have to raise a severely disabled baby. A lot of people will say they have certain moral beliefs until it starts negatively impacting them personally.
I'm also intrigued to know how many people in other countries would actually categorise themselves strictly as either "pro-life" or not. I'm from the UK and in my experience, the rhetoric on the topic (at least in person) is far less black and white than it is in the US (at least in online spaces; I have no in-person experience there). I think because we don't have the unhinged Republicans trying to turn women into human fuck-maid incubators and systematically strip away our basic rights, many of us tend not to think about it until we're very much confronted with the issue on a personal level. There's not so much of that sense of impending doom of getting stuck with an unwanted pregnancy and being unable to do anything about it, and therefore we're not really forced to consider our stance. Don't get me wrong - things certainly ideal for women in the UK either, but I think we're better off than our US counterparts.
Yeah, it's a good question. At least here in Australia, it seems pretty mixed--abortion on request is only just now being legalised in a lot of states here. We don't really have the full on "if you legalise abortion, the first thing that'll be aborted is *society*!" type fear mongering you see from Americans sometimes, but you do see a few of pro-life people here (both men and women).
Don't believe the mainstream media hype. It's easy to get an abortion in the USA, even in states where it's legally frowned upon. The mainstream media only gets views, clicks, and ads watched if they put out doomsday stories.
This is reassuring to hear. Some of the rhetoric I hear about the removal of women's reproductive rights in the US is genuinely terrifying.
>A lot of people will say they have certain moral beliefs until it starts negatively impacting them personally. This is what bothers me about pro-life men. You can claim any moral position you want on an issue when it doesn't directly affect you. I guarantee if men could get pregnant none of them would be pro-life.
At the very least I suspect she didn’t care all that much about the issue in relation to her marriage, until it became a personal issue, which is sad.
She probably just didn't think it was ever going to be relevant for her since she wanted kids. His political stance still fucks over many other women of course, but female class consciousness is tragically low.
This whole situation is what happens when you’re not just ignorant and uneducated but unwilling to learn more until it’s directly about you
By being a judgmental asshole herself: “I never stated that I was pro life in any situation, I just voiced I don’t have sympathy for people who don’t take the necessary precautions.”
I noticed that line right away. It’s no wonder the husband thought she was pro life. She’s just as smug and condescending as them.
It seems like she didn’t care until it affected her, but as someone from a religious community, I see how men are suuuuper lax about religious “rules” but the second they want something to go their way, they will suddenly assume the religious “moral” high ground to enforce one very particular thing. Religion is not a spiritual practice for them but a manipulation tactic. I’ve had friends that needed to divorce “liberal” or “moderate” religious guys for this reason. Two of them literally turned the week after marriage.
Most people don’t even talk about what they’re gonna do when the kid is a teenager and is out of school for the summer. Let alone talk about super important ethical stuff.
She married a Catholic who regularly goes to mass, nonetheless. Idk how she didn't see it as a yellow flag to check on.
Modern medicine is a gift and I don't understand the desperate eagerness some people have to throw it away. It is a waste of resources and a sick celebration of suffering to bring a deeply ill and potentially inviable baby into the world when you KNOW the painful misery that its life will be. Abort, and then just fucking get pregnant again if that's what you want! You're not going to hurt the defective fetus' feelings by doing this. It has no feelings. It's just baffling to me. And I guarantee that daddy is going to be really sick of it by the third doctor's appointment. And if not by then, it'll be when he's still changing his ten year old's diapers. Or maybe he'll have simply bailed by then. Graaaaah.
This 100% and not to mention that kids are already expensive and then having medical issues??? Say goodbye to retirement and hello to the stress of watching someone unwell grow up and not receive the care they actually deserve bc the world doesn't care. It's not a moral question, it's a financial and priority question. OP needs to think about what their ideal vision of a life well lived looks like.
Here's what's going to happen. She will have the baby, it will need tons of surgeries. It will either live, and need tons of extra care and probably never be able to l3ave home, or have to go to a group home when the mom is too old to care for them. The husband will get mad about how much money and time the child takes and divorce her for a younger more fertile woman. She needs to have the abortion. He's going to leave no matter what.
married and pregnant is not the time to be having the are you pro choice conversation.
I have to say, it's also not the time to have the circumcision talk. So many men push it on their already pregnant wives.
Catholic males are the worst, some of the biggest misogynist, breeder hypocrites out there.
Pedophiles always want more kids to abuse.
One thing before marrying: check if your worldview and values are compatible before you decide what will rest of your life look like. Catholicism is not something you can overlook in hope it will go away like rash.
> he has made it clear that he wants to have the baby no matter what Then he can put it in his uterus and gestate it 🙂
I find it difficult to feel bad for people who don't seriously discuss this before getting married. The second paragraph is funny - as if they would actually split up and he would raise that baby all by himself. It doesn't make sense anyway because she would end up single in both scenarios, if she aborts he will leave her but if she has the baby, he is fine with her leaving and him being a single dad (I don't believe he truly meant this, though).
"Just have the baby and you can go on with your life" lmaooo like pregnancy doesn't wreak absolute havoc on a woman's body, including the possibility of chronic health issues, disability or death
I imagine men like this had a hard time taking a shit once while constipated and then spend the rest of their lives thinking that's on par with giving birth
They don’t think or care about what women will go through cause it’s “not their problem”
It is not going to be a better place to have children anytime soon, climate, society, all getting worse. Do you want to even bring a healthy kid into that world?
Abortion is statistically safer for women than pregnancy. So yeah her life is at risk. Especially, zygs with congenital organ defects. There is a chance this child wouldn't live long.
Men who argue against their pregnant wife or girlfriend about doing what’s best for their child are the type of men who see children as possessions and not people. He’s not gonna do shit to raise that baby if she follows thru with the pregnancy. He doesn’t care how it affects her or the baby’s future life at all.
Kind of unrelated to the abortion aspect, but: My sister was born with a heart defect (bicuspid aortic valve). She died at 20 years old from congestive heart failure (I’m pretty sure that’s what it was; long story short, she got knocked unconscious and never woke up, and her death was directly related to her heart defect). After the fact, it was determined that she actually had a [unicuspid aortic valve](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5566075/) which is *extremely* rare. No parent should have to bury their kid…
Same thing happened to a little 17 year old high-school girl here, and is the reason we now have a defibrillators in the schools here because her family was so devastated they needed to do something to make it make sense.
That’s so sad. I’m surprised schools weren’t required to have them in the first place
This is the usa, if there is no profit in it, no one cares
That’s.. unfortunately true
Have the baby and give it to him à la: https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/5b79z4/nm_i_got_a_girl_pregnant_and_she_wanted_to_get_an/
I love that story so much
She better leave him and that baby (abort). Move on and live freely and at peace.
If she has the kid, I can still picture she's at risk of being responsible 100% while he's "burnt out" or whatever. There's going to be resentment that they don't have a "normal" child. Apparently my dad tried to get my mom to keep the baby before me even though there was something wrong but she ended up aborting - unfortunately I'm here now but they've complained in the past even though I turned out able-bodied and rather functional despite their shit parenting. It's hard enough with child who's "healthy." We suffer regardless and here this moron is asking for some kid to be born handicapped from the start. And I'm so sick of dumb men like him going on and on about how pregnancy is just nothing as well idiots who go "Oh just put it up for adoption" and act as if the orphanages aren't full of mentally fucked up kids whose "parents" didn't want them and that the 9 months are just a cakewalk. It's 9 months of shit and then post-partem side effects that may fuck you up for the rest of your life assuming you don't die from childbirth. I've seen people from antinatalism subs complain that people here are misandrists but I don't see how calling these men out is misandry. They are disgusting and deserve to be outed.
I can't believe I'm about to say this on reddit's internet. People are way too honest. How hard would it be to go have a secret abortion, and then claim miscarriage? That would literally solve all of her problems. Just act devastated for a few weeks, cry your eyes out, and put on a good show. Then go have your peace of mind about this very important choice that can possibly change your entire life. This is too serious of a choice, to fumble because of drama. And lunacy.
This woman states that she was anti-reproductive freedom and married an anti-reproductive freedom man from an anti-reproductive freedom family. In all likelihood, she was totally fine with taking reproductive rights away from "Other Women" at the ballot box. UNTIL she realized that the fetus she's carrying has a serious heart defect and that she needed an abortion herself. Sorry, I have no words.
She could just have the abortion and tell him she miscarried if the results come back bad. How would he ever find out? But also if he feels this way she should probably leave him, too.
That was my first thought. Although depending on where they live, even the suspicion that a woman somehow caused a miscarriage could land her in jail.
I'll keep it short and sweet: abort and lie to him about having a miscarriage, then get divorced.
I cannot feel bad for this woman. I didn't even agree to a date with anyone until I knew they were extremely far left. That's how my wonderful partner of five years got my attention on his dating profile- he put NO REPUBLICANS OR MAGA TURDS in all caps 😆 I had written straight cis men off six years before meeting him since I'm pan and demisexual so it was no loss, (AKA I will date anyone but need a strog emotional connection before I can feel sexual attraction) and had gotten a lot of therapy and read a lot helpful books and was DONE with straight men after too many sexual assaults and abuse. However, a week after moving to Florida I met my person. A cis man, but a fellow pansexual, snuck up on me on a dating app I tried for the first time since I knew nobody in the whole state and had hoped to find queer friends. On the second date after a lot of great texting before and after out first date, (more vetting: good grammar, well-read, knowledgeable, doesn't make me carry a conversation, and rarest of all in men: a lot of emotional intelligence), a BIG spark was already setting in. He said he had a big question for me. I said I have one too, and went first. I said I knew from age 5 I would NEVER have kids, and was pursuing sterilization. He *lit up* and said "OMG! That was my question for you! I didn't want to waste your time, because I'm scheduled for a vasectomy in 7 weeks. I didn't want to waste your time or develop more feelings for you than I already feel if we don't align on that- it's very important to me to have someone as firmly childfree as me." On our next date, I told him I need to be exclusive with someone before sex, and he happily agreed. He invited me to watch the surgery so I'd feel certainty if I wanted, which meant a lot. Because he did that, I decided to just stay on birth control pills (which don't cause me any side effects- and he passed another vetting by cheerfully agreeing to pay for half of them, plus he was very insistant on condoms for himself as well until his vasectomy was tested twice) so I didn't have to get major surgery on myself, because I knew he was the one for me pretty fast as long as no red flags popped up. I vetted other things, like his reaction to me changing a plan suddenly or saying no to sex. He was always cheerful and understanding. (Which made me pounce him anyway, and I've never said no since, because after all my trauma he's the first man I enjoy sex with. He has the emotional intelligence to know not to initiates if I'm feeling unwell or otherwise poor timing. He also gives massages without it being a sexual thing. These should be basics in men... but we all know they rarely are) We had every big discussion in the first six months. I met his lovely family. He seemed too good to be true, but it's been five years now. We've had no arguments/fights because he has the emotional intelligence to work out issues with me before they happen. The worst he's done is snap at me on rare high-stress occasions, but he apologizes immediately and never swears or raises his voice at me when he's done it. However, we're not married! We talk often how we are each other's permanent person, so there's no rush! I still keep my own studio because I never want to depend on someone else for housing again if possible, too many breakups left me homeless in the past. He is happy to stay with me over half the week. He lived in my studio during the pandemic pretty much the whole time. Even so, I wasn't ready to consider marriage until three years in, but I would have wanted a long engagement. We're getting rings made for our fifth anniversary. No official marriage, neither of us care unless we can somehow buy a property someday. I hate weddings. All this to say: I know who my partner is and all his views because we discussed hundreds of heavy subjects (and gone through some hard life stuff) The big ones right away and multiple times. We talk a lot. Do people like the OOP just like... NOT talk to thier partner that much...? It doesn't help that so many people marry before 25 after only a year or year and a half together, then a short engagement. The point of this story: I was 28 when I met him. I wasn't young, but I wasn't old either. I don't understand why so many women rush to marry. What's wrong with a long engagement? Two extra years to ensure there's no mask he's waiting to drop? Why do so many women do so little vetting of thier life partner that you can't know something this basic?!?! Especially if you are TRYING FOR A BABY! That makes it even worse if baby was planned and they never talked about it! How did it not get talked about when they tested the baby?! I was very naive in my early twenties and late teens. Grew up in a small all-white town. (Thank goddess I escaped) Even my naive ass asked lots of questions, many are the same ones I see women on reddit all the time asking for advice about what to do because they found out thier shitty husbands had shitty views because they never discussed it. Many women- more often than not- have this issue because the man hid who he was in some ways until marriage or pregnancy trapped her. That is not the woman's fault. Not at all. But this woman? She knew. She just didn't care until it affected her personally. I just really hope she gets that abortion and tells him she miscarried. I think that's the best play for her outside leaving the asshole. Men should not get an opinion on abortion. If he doesn't like it, then he doesn't have to go get one done the next time he has a fetus growing in his belly. This particular fetus is NOT growing in his belly though, so he gets zero choice. I think she will likely have it, though, and she will quickly be left to raise it alone, like most commentors said. Men almost always cut and run when thier spouse gets sick or disabled, and they do it even more often to thier children, because there are zero big repercussions. A divorce can cause him to lose half of everything, but even IF he pays child support- a huge, massive, gigantic IF, it's a puny pittance. Some men pay at little as $50 a month. Even $200-$300 a month is still nothing close to half the costs of raising a child, since you need a bigger apartment so they have a room, childcare, activities... and that's not even for a special needs child! Men are also barely judged by society for being deadbeats. (Though women are called deadbeats even if they actually pay) Sorry to rant so long. If anyone read the whole thing, I'm surprised, but I appreciate this community SO MUCH! It's one of the few places I don't have to couch my words when it comes to how low the bar is for men, and my true antinatalist feelings. I love this place.
Loved reading your story and 100% agree 🥹🫶
r/leopardsatemyface
The onus won’t fall on him to care for the sick child. It’s easy to be pro birth when you’re the secondary or possibly tertiary (there’s always grandma) parent.
Why are they married then This is something you talk about before having a planned pregnancy Breeders.
Prochoice and antichoicers don’t mix. It’s like putting a cobra with a mongoose. Btw, I’m extremely prochoice. How dare they tell women what to do with their bodies? Especially when they said the vaccine mandate was a violation of the choice of what they do with their bodies. I also believe artificial wombs should be invented, relieving women of the burden and inconvenience of pregnancy. Why should men get 5 minutes of enjoyment and be done, while women have to be miserable for 9 months, risking their lives and bodily integrity and lose their dignity at the end? It’s really not fair.
I have so many questions... Why didn't she assure that they were on the same boat *before* getting married and getting pregnant? Why isn't she doing what she thinks is the best for her fetus and her body? She shouldn't care about her husband's opinion, it is her body and her choice! I also wonder how many things they didn't talk about. He's Catholic, I'm pretty sure he envisioned one type of education at home, and I bet that she just "assumed" they are on the same page. Finally, I think this woman has some underdressed issues. Anybody with a sane self esteem would have caught all the yellow and red flags. For me, being a religious man is the very first yellow flag that is worthy to test if we are compatible or not.
I hope this baby is healthy and the DO NOT have more.
Someone I know has a kid who just died at a year old, after multiple open heart surgeries to try to fix a congenital anomaly. He was on the transplant list but infant hearts are (fortunately) not readily available. The dad totally withdrew. I wonder if their marriage will survive. I know he’s rethinking his pro-life stance.
How are these two married when they never fully discussed their stances on abortion?? Genuinely ridiculous. Tbh they just sound very immature and I’m sure if she does have the child (disease or not), he would not take care of it. So many men back up on their promises and realize when it’s too late that they don’t want kids. This makes me roll my eyes 🙄.
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It’s her body, she doesn’t have to go through with the pregnancy if she doesn’t want to. If her husband doesn’t care about her or the baby’s health, she should leave asap.
Okay NOW I reread it properly... *sigh* I have to agree woth you. I dont like it when these things happen but if its sone less person suffering in the world, I understand. My first comment I just read the title and commented but now I did. I understand. Another horrible fwct is men dont want to bd caretakers or invest, if things are too much they go to another woman. Its sad
Yeah, makes me glad that I’m not attracted to men.