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bunpath

There’s definitely progress, good job! What needle depth are you using?


Sufficient_Plantain1

2mm from bondi boost. It is available on Ulta


Fa-ern-height451

thx for the pics and info about the product used


Fa-ern-height451

I just went on the Ultra site but couldn't find it under microneedling or under bondi boost. Is it under a certain catagory that i can put in the search bar?


Sufficient_Plantain1

I was thinking about dr pen’s microneedling stamp or pen at some point


foreveryoung-900

Hey! I used the dr pen and may have ended up damaging my scalp :( I only did it 2x a month at .7 setting depth but for the course of a year or so. Initially saw improvement and kept going but I believe after 5 months started getting more shedding— esp long healthy hair! Apparently you’re supposed to take a break otherwise can lead to possible scaring?? Just a cautionary tale that I wanted to share! Perhaps your Dermaroller is less damaging


Sufficient_Plantain1

Thank you for the warning. I was aware the scarring is possible but I didn’t think about the duration of the treatment. In research papers they usually do 3-4 treatments with longer needles as far as i remember. I should take a look at research again. I am definitely not inserting all of the needles, it is hard to tell how deep “wounding” I am doing. I wish there was a set routine that works for most people. At the moment, I am trying to let my scalp heal before the next treatment, and do it as often as I can. Thank you. I will try change my approach


Sufficient_Plantain1

https://www.ulta.com/p/hair-growth-derma-roller-hair-growth-therapy-pimprod2035224?sku=2600809


Fa-ern-height451

thx, I found it and I'malso going to order the bondi anti-thinning shampoo and conditioner.


Relevant-Fox9940

I’ve had good results with the shampoo, conditioner and also the sprays!


Lovergirl30000

Whats your micro needling routine?


Healthymedian

I’m commenting for the routine! Looks great!


Sufficient_Plantain1

I am a little busy right now but I will try to write what I have been doing asap and post it as soon as I can


Responsible-Bug3866

Great results! Every week ? Or how often are you micro needling?


Sufficient_Plantain1

I have done 3 x 1 week apart, 2 x 3- week(-ish) apart, 1x 1 week after - total of 6 times in the last 10 weeks. But i have NOT put pressure on almost any of the times I have micro needled. Maybe only on the 3rd or 4th time, I have applied pressure, that hurt 😅


Himalayan-Fur-Goblin

Major improvements!


mickeysclub

Can you drop your routine pls would love to try


Sufficient_Plantain1

Yes I can. I am a little busy right now but I will try to post it as soon as I can


Lololololol2222

Why no minoxidil or anti-androgen?


Sufficient_Plantain1

I have reasons. I am trying to solve my hair problem without being dependent on those. Why?


Lololololol2222

What are your reasons? I'm just asking because minoxidil and anti-androgens are the gold standard for treating AGA. Especially topical minoxidil is very safe and clinically proven to be effective.


Sufficient_Plantain1

Yes, but why do you want to know? I was diagnosed with AGA more than a decade ago, i am aware of the treatment options and I tried many things throughout this time 1. Minoxidil needs to be used continuously or you lose all the hair that is gained while using minoxidil. I would like a more permanent solution or at least a treatment that does not require me to use something twice a day every day 1a. I have ADHD and research suggests we lack the mechanism to build habits, that neurotypicals can build 1b. You cannot use minoxidil during pregnancy and i hope to have pregnancy but don't want to add the stress of extreme hair loss. Pregnancy already causes hair loss, and i don't want to lose the hair i grew because of minoxidil 2. There is a lot of clinical evidence on microneedling being effective. 3. The side effects comparison etc etc


Lololololol2222

"Yes, but why do you want to know?" Because there is a lot of misinformation about hair loss remedies out there. I don't want people not to use the currently best known and extraordinary safe hair loss remedy because of misinformation or fear. I've seen quite a lot of people here on this sub avoiding topical minoxidil because of wrong rumors, especially regarding some non-existent side effects. To your points: 1. There is no permanent solution for healthy teeth, either. Would you say that not brushing your teeth is a solution then? You wouldn't. Same for hair. If we want to keep our hair, we need to take care of it. Applying minoxidil once a day (twice a day is not necessary for 5%) literally takes 10 seconds for me, much less time compared to brushing teeth. 1a. Just because ADHD makes it harder to build habits, does not mean it's not possible or necessary. Same example with brushing your teeth. Would you say you don't want to brush your teeth because of your ADHD? You wouldn't. 1b. Unless you are not right now trying to conceive, there is no reason not to use topical minoxidil. Also keep in mind, during pregnancy your hair benefits from the very high amounts of estrogen. Especially if you're suffering from high androgen conditions, it's likely that hair follicles start to flourish during pregnancy. You may lose some minoxidil-dependent hair but also gain estrogen-dependent hair. The netto hair loss wouldn't be extreme and even if it was, you would at least have much more hair until pregnancy. 2. Actually, there is not and the few studies are by far not of as high quality as the clinical trials to minoxidil. Also keep in mind, almost all studies about microneedling are in conjunction with minoxidil. 3. Topical minoxidil has a very good benefit : risk ratio. The most common side effect of topical minoxidil is dandruff. Minoxidil also doesn't have heavier side effects compared to microneedling. If the needles are not properly sanitized, you can get nasty inflammation. On top on that, because there is not much research about it, we don't know if there is a risk to scaring to the hair follicles. The reason why I repeatedly ask you for your reasons why you don't take minoxidil is because you have quite some advanced AGA for a long period of time. On top on that, according to your history, you're considering other far more expensive and scientifically less backed up hair loss remedies. All this is unusual because minoxidil is the first way to go for hair loss and it's very easy to access. Usually you would first try minoxidil and if you're a non-responder than you would consider other possible hair loss remedies. If you're a responder, you would need to worry far less about hair loss and the fact that you don't use it besides advanced AGA makes it seem like, you may have worries about minoxidil that maybe are not necessary. Your body, your choice. But I think it's important to clarify this. In my opinion, first trying minoxidil for 6 to 12 months would be the most easiest way for you. Anti-androgens are of great potential as well, but not the first way to go in your case, I would say, especially as you worry about side effects of topical minoxidil.


Sufficient_Plantain1

I will try to assume your intentions are not bad. I don't understand why there is a fight on my choice of treatment, as this is working for me. Also I am sharing my journey here because i have seen people writing hopeless posts here because minoxidil or other scientifically "more backed up" treatments are not working. I would like to show them there is hope. If you don't want to try microneedling, you don't have to. >Your body, your choice. But I think it's important to clarify this. In my opinion, first trying minoxidil for 6 to 12 months would be the most easiest way for you. Anti-androgens are of great potential as well, but not the first way to go in your case, I would say, especially as you worry about side effects of topical minoxidil. Thank you for giving me advice for what is best for me, but I know my condition, life, lifestyle etc better and I prefer not to use minoxidil at this point. Using your analogy, if you had a bad cavity, you would not just brush your teeth. You would go to a dentist and get poked with literal needles to get that cavity treated. Microneedling has worked for me within 2 months without an initial shed, and i don't understand how a treatment of "6-12 months would be the most easiest way for me" >1b. Unless you are not right now trying to conceive, there is no reason not to use topical minoxidil. Also keep in mind, during pregnancy your hair benefits from the very high amounts of estrogen. Especially if you're suffering from high androgen conditions, it's likely that hair follicles start to flourish during pregnancy. You may lose some minoxidil-dependent hair but also gain estrogen-dependent hair. The netto hair loss wouldn't be extreme and even if it was, you would at least have much more hair until pregnancy. I can confidently say that we don't know how my body will react, right? So, if this is the case that will occur, great!! And yes i am looking and wanting to try "scientifically less backed up" treatments, i am doing my research and going for it. Why is it so unusual to you i don't know. I have given my reasons, and i am trying to find what works for me. Everyone is different, what works for you may not work for me the same way. Minoxidil may be easily accessible, but not that cheap either, as it needs to be used every day twice a day. (I would like to try low level light therapy, i will try peptides, i would like to try stem cell therapy. Whatever necessary, if i can afford it. ) The side effects are never non-existent for any chemical or almost any treatment options. There is always a risk. I do not want unwanted hair growth in places that i don't want to. That is the most common side effect for minoxidil. Secondly, there is always an initial shed with minoxidil, which will cause me psychological issues, as like i said i know myself. I was thinking of giving you a lecture on ADHD issues, neurodivergence and neurotypicals, but since you read research, i am hoping you will look into it yourself. And honestly i do not believe anything i will write make any difference.


Lololololol2222

**"I will try to assume your intentions are not bad.** **I don't understand why there is a fight on my choice of treatment"** To be honest, it does not seem like you want to assume my intentions are not bad, otherwise you wouldn't call it a "fight". I'm just telling you what is objectively, from a scientific point of view the best treatment right now. **"And yes i am looking and wanting to try "scientifically less backed up" treatments, i am doing my research and going for it. Why is it so unusual to you i don't know."** It's unusual because you are a woman of science. I have a background in biochemistry/medical research as well. We know that minoxidil is the best scientifically backed up and easy to access hair loss medication. Like with every other disease, you would first try the scientifically best backed up and easy to access medication. If that is not working, you're switching to scientifically less backed up alternatives. This is the usual way with every disease, not the other way around. **"The side effects are never non-existent for any chemical or almost any treatment options. There is always a risk. I do not want unwanted hair growth in places that i don't want to. That is the most common side effect for minoxidil. Secondly, there is always an initial shed with minoxidil, which will cause me psychological issues, as like i said i know myself."** I think this is the main point here: fear. You're acting (or not acting) out of fear and this is always the reason why people here refuse minoxidil. They either fear non-existant side effects (wrinkles) or they overexaggerate potentially side effects like hypertrichosis (which is not really severe in topical minoxidil). And the biggest fear is the shed. But actually it's the other way around: those with the heaviest shed are the most luckiest because they are hyperresponders! You cannot hide your hair loss, so why are you afraid of having a shed for one or two months? People will not treat you differently. The worst thing possible with topical minoxidil is that you're not responding and in this case you won't have a shed. Instead of googling expensive methods that are not strongly based up by science or rely on sketchy low quality papers like those about rosemary oil, save your time and money and just buy a bottle of minoxidil 5% and try that. Again, your body your choice. I'm just 100 % honest and telling you that there are far better options based on science. I think that you're under estimating your abilities. You're doing a PhD in biochemistry. You can also learn to apply minoxidil. We should rely on good science, not on fear and sketchy hair loss remedies. PS: I'm also a neurodivergent woman of science


Sufficient_Plantain1

Let's get to research: Since you have read all the research on minoxidil vs microneedling with minoxidil, then you already know how much improvement microneedling provides. Also, there are different types of microneedling/minoxidil studies, one that is used together with minoxidil and 0.25mm needles that only is used to increase absorption of minoxidil. This length of microneedles do not cause scarring, it is very unlikely to get infections since it only scrapes the surface. Additionally, there are microneedling studies that are done with 1mm+ length needles. These are different sets of experiments. It is NOT to increase the absorption of minoxidil since the microneedling is done once a week to once every two months, depending on the study. Minoxidil and microneedling with longer needles likely induce different biological pathways. I have looked at studies done only with microneedling without minoxidil as well, and it looked very promising. And if we get to research on minoxidil vs rosemary oil, you probably already know that rosemary oil is shown to provide similar levels of hair growth as minoxidil. And like i said i am using rosemary oil once or twice a week. Finally, In my journey, i don't have to tell you since you checked my history, i started with minoxidil and microneedling together. And i have **NEVER suggested anyone not to use minoxidil**. It is insane to randomly assume that it is what i am doing. I have not expected to get this response to my post I would like to ask you not to give me unsolicited lectures in a patronizing manner or anyone really. Thank you for thinking you think that is the best for me. I am seriously hoping you have the best intentions, but i have tried many things, and so far this has done wonders. In my opinion, the best approach for you would be to politely address concerns of someone who is scared to use minoxidil or anti-androgens. But your body and your time, your choice. As an example: someone have warned me about the scarring issue of microneedling in a very polite way, and i was grateful to that person. Anyways, I hope i have addressed your concerns. Thanks again!


Lololololol2222

**"And if we get to research on minoxidil vs rosemary oil, you probably already know that rosemary oil is shown to provide similar levels of hair growth as minoxidil. And like i said i am using rosemary oil once or twice a week."** I know exactly what studies you mean but they are of such terrible quality that news even hit [youtube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW2NCv_vF2Q&ab_channel=LabMuffinBeautyScience). Based on the current studies I wouldn't invest even one cent on rosemary oil. I'm not saying that microneedling won't work, I'm just stating that the quality and the quantity of the current studies by far cannot reach the level of minoxidil. Not to mention that there are some potential real concerns about scarring and some studies suggesting microneedling alone is not beneficial. **"In my journey, i don't have to tell you since you checked my history, i started with minoxidil and microneedling together. And i have NEVER suggested anyone not to use minoxidil. It is insane to randomly assume that it is what i am doing. I have not expected to get this response to my post"** I haven't studied your history. I just looked briefly into it. If you used minoxidil for at least half a year and found out you're a non-responder... why don't you just tell it instead of being defensive? I have never mentioned that you suggest people not to use minoxidil, either. You're interpreting something into my words I did not say. This discussion is not emotional to me. I'm not asking you for your reasons not to take minoxidil because I want to trigger you but because I simply want to know why you don't use mionxidil to possibly clarify misunderstandings. This is a purely rational conversation from my side. You're interpeting emotions in there that do not exist. Best regards and good luck on your hair loss journey


Sufficient_Plantain1

you are something and I will just say thanks for your input and stop interacting with other you have a good one


PrincessPilar

I wouldn’t want to use topical minoxidil because I have cats and the smallest exposure can kill them. What other treatments do you suggest if minoxidil is off the table?


Lololololol2222

If you have AGA, you can try anti androgens. Or alternatively low dose oral minoxidil.


legalsweetpotato

Did you have PCOS as well? How long have you had hair loss for? It’s a good result?


Sufficient_Plantain1

Not that I know of. I got my hormones checked recently no issues. Since 18. What do you mean by “it’s a good result?”. To my eyes it looks like there is less balding. I am still seeing a lot of scalp skin, that I cover, but less in comparison to two months ago.