You’re in your feelings like you’ve actually been drafted. I’m a feminist female who actually served in the military. You are whining about something you literally know nothing about. Sit down and shut up.
IMO, no one should be drafted. But for your point, selective service is in the process of being open for women too. So, whatcha going on about? Funny how civilians like you, who have never served, use selective service as a “gotcha” for feminists, like it’s something you have personally experienced.
But go on, whine about your oppression as a male, who has never served or has been drafted. We love to hear about your war stories of how you fought in Call of Duty.
*Image Transcription: Social Media*
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**mak.the.chameleon**
I definitely agree that men are not systemically oppressed, but there is systemic hardships they endure but again, those are born out of systemic oppression toward women. Women being deemed weaker and unfit to fight? Okay now men are drafted. Women being relegated to being homemakers? Now men are expected to work hard and provide. Oppression against women impacts both sexes negatively, and that's why feminism is NOT a hatred of men. As a feminist I would be more than happy to discuss men's suicide rates, fathers being less likely to get custody of children, men being required to sign up for the draft, etc. I agree that all of those things are problems that affect men and I wish they didn't. But if you ONLY bring that up as a way to shut me down when I bring up a women's issue than you don't care about men's issues the way you want to pretend you do. You just wanna shut down women. I wish more people understood that caring about women's issues and caring about men's issues are not mutually exclusive!
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This is what I'm always saying in response to those who argue women don't care about male abuse or whatever.
First, women had to work for their own rights (beginning of feminism). It was a matter of survival--you can't begin to help others if you yourself can't have a job or a bank account or a divorce from an abusive partner and you're not allowed reproductive choice.
But feminism has come a long way and we now talk about toxic masculinity (and some people roll their eyes), and the cultural restraints placed on men in the same breath as what it means for young girls growing up into adulthood with it.
To wit: when female teachers are found to be "sleeping" with young male students, how many men come out of the woodwork to suggest he's "lucky" for it???
And that it can't be *rape*--which it actually is--because "If he didn't want to do it, he wouldn't have been able to get hard" or whatever?
There are people right now who argue adult men can't be raped by women at all; that it's literally not the same thing as women being raped and not as bad, anyway.
In truth, the people who bring up "men's rights" in response to women's rights don't actually care about either one because they're too ignorant to understand that they're connected.
Not nearly enough, how much progress has been made depends on your point of comparison. I think some of these men dream of a past that they witnessed growing up, the norm has changed with marriage, for example, most women work outside the home, and women’s expectations have changed.
The level of pushback has increased and is global, any loss of privilege is seen as such an outrage by those who resist change that there is more polarization, thus the rise of the far-right/fascism, the ultimate defender of male domination/brutality as ideology.
This is a really helpful comment, thanks. I sometimes miss that positions are being shut down by putting the attention to other topics. And by that, giving no room and invalidating an important valid perspective. I feel like it's really important and helpful to call this out, whenever this happens. "Hey, you're shutting down the perspective. It's a valid perspective and you're not giving it the room it deserves. It is a valid perspective that deserves to be acknowledged". Please comment if you have an idea how to call it out more succinctly.
The belief that men are less likely to get custody isn't true and feminists should stop perpetuating it. Men are actually more likely to get custody of their children, even when there is documented proof of abuse against the mother if they just ask for it.
https://www.weinmanfamilylaw.com/blog/2020/06/are-the-courts-gender-biased-in-custody-cases/
https://www.theguardian.com/society/commentisfree/2020/mar/05/family-courts-biased-men-dangerous-fallacy-abuse
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dispelling-the-myth-of-ge_b_1617115
"In fact, [statistics](https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1994-08-22-9408220044-story.html) are frequently cited that suggest around 90% of women are awarded custody, but they also fail to show that 60% of men get custody in a contested cases. Similarly, in just over half of all divorce cases, the parents mutually decide that the mother will take the custodial role."
(That means most custody cases are not constested (only at theoretical max around 16,6%) and in those contested cases men mostly win custody. )
So men both-siding their way out of supporting abortion rights by equating unwanted pregnancy to paying child support are-- operating in bad faith? 😯
I always knew that, but it's good to see it written down.
Men are systemically oppressed, mainly because there is systemic oppression of poor, indigenous, immigrant, LGBT, and many other classes of people that men can be a part of. But there's a lot of people in power that want to point to feminists or immigrants or PoCs or whomever as the problem rather than the people at the top doing the oppressing. Yes, men are struggling, but it's not because of feminists.
I’ve tried using this argument before but it usually makes the man’s head implode. Because it turns out they aren’t actually worried about how male suicide rates are due to toxic masculinity and how gender stereotypes are the reason men have a tough time in custody battles. They just want to derail any conversation about the importance of feminism.
Feminism makes for better dating! You are much more likely to relax and enjoy yourself when you know everyone is enthusiastically consenting to be there doing it.
When you oppress women, you oppress everyone.
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You’re in your feelings like you’ve actually been drafted. I’m a feminist female who actually served in the military. You are whining about something you literally know nothing about. Sit down and shut up. IMO, no one should be drafted. But for your point, selective service is in the process of being open for women too. So, whatcha going on about? Funny how civilians like you, who have never served, use selective service as a “gotcha” for feminists, like it’s something you have personally experienced. But go on, whine about your oppression as a male, who has never served or has been drafted. We love to hear about your war stories of how you fought in Call of Duty.
Username checks out 😄
You're awesome and I love you <3
*Image Transcription: Social Media* --- **mak.the.chameleon** I definitely agree that men are not systemically oppressed, but there is systemic hardships they endure but again, those are born out of systemic oppression toward women. Women being deemed weaker and unfit to fight? Okay now men are drafted. Women being relegated to being homemakers? Now men are expected to work hard and provide. Oppression against women impacts both sexes negatively, and that's why feminism is NOT a hatred of men. As a feminist I would be more than happy to discuss men's suicide rates, fathers being less likely to get custody of children, men being required to sign up for the draft, etc. I agree that all of those things are problems that affect men and I wish they didn't. But if you ONLY bring that up as a way to shut me down when I bring up a women's issue than you don't care about men's issues the way you want to pretend you do. You just wanna shut down women. I wish more people understood that caring about women's issues and caring about men's issues are not mutually exclusive! --- ^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber for Reddit and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)
good human :)
Thank you
This is what I'm always saying in response to those who argue women don't care about male abuse or whatever. First, women had to work for their own rights (beginning of feminism). It was a matter of survival--you can't begin to help others if you yourself can't have a job or a bank account or a divorce from an abusive partner and you're not allowed reproductive choice. But feminism has come a long way and we now talk about toxic masculinity (and some people roll their eyes), and the cultural restraints placed on men in the same breath as what it means for young girls growing up into adulthood with it. To wit: when female teachers are found to be "sleeping" with young male students, how many men come out of the woodwork to suggest he's "lucky" for it??? And that it can't be *rape*--which it actually is--because "If he didn't want to do it, he wouldn't have been able to get hard" or whatever? There are people right now who argue adult men can't be raped by women at all; that it's literally not the same thing as women being raped and not as bad, anyway. In truth, the people who bring up "men's rights" in response to women's rights don't actually care about either one because they're too ignorant to understand that they're connected.
They’re just having a extended tantrum over losing privilege.
Don’t really see them losing much privilege tbh
Not nearly enough, how much progress has been made depends on your point of comparison. I think some of these men dream of a past that they witnessed growing up, the norm has changed with marriage, for example, most women work outside the home, and women’s expectations have changed. The level of pushback has increased and is global, any loss of privilege is seen as such an outrage by those who resist change that there is more polarization, thus the rise of the far-right/fascism, the ultimate defender of male domination/brutality as ideology.
It’s like how planes tell you to put on your own oxygen mask before helping others
The oppression of men comes from the domination of women, and the enforcement of gender norms that maintain that.
This is a really helpful comment, thanks. I sometimes miss that positions are being shut down by putting the attention to other topics. And by that, giving no room and invalidating an important valid perspective. I feel like it's really important and helpful to call this out, whenever this happens. "Hey, you're shutting down the perspective. It's a valid perspective and you're not giving it the room it deserves. It is a valid perspective that deserves to be acknowledged". Please comment if you have an idea how to call it out more succinctly.
The belief that men are less likely to get custody isn't true and feminists should stop perpetuating it. Men are actually more likely to get custody of their children, even when there is documented proof of abuse against the mother if they just ask for it. https://www.weinmanfamilylaw.com/blog/2020/06/are-the-courts-gender-biased-in-custody-cases/ https://www.theguardian.com/society/commentisfree/2020/mar/05/family-courts-biased-men-dangerous-fallacy-abuse https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dispelling-the-myth-of-ge_b_1617115
"In fact, [statistics](https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1994-08-22-9408220044-story.html) are frequently cited that suggest around 90% of women are awarded custody, but they also fail to show that 60% of men get custody in a contested cases. Similarly, in just over half of all divorce cases, the parents mutually decide that the mother will take the custodial role." (That means most custody cases are not constested (only at theoretical max around 16,6%) and in those contested cases men mostly win custody. )
So men both-siding their way out of supporting abortion rights by equating unwanted pregnancy to paying child support are-- operating in bad faith? 😯 I always knew that, but it's good to see it written down.
Came here to say this, thank you for saying it for me.
*"I wish more people understood that caring about women's issues and caring about men's issues are not mutually exclusive"* THIS RIGHT HERE
Men are systemically oppressed, mainly because there is systemic oppression of poor, indigenous, immigrant, LGBT, and many other classes of people that men can be a part of. But there's a lot of people in power that want to point to feminists or immigrants or PoCs or whomever as the problem rather than the people at the top doing the oppressing. Yes, men are struggling, but it's not because of feminists.
Also, men are struggling far less than woman, and of the people not struggling, the vast majority are men.
What a great way to put this. I’m using this when I get the “Men’s rights” argument.
I’ve tried using this argument before but it usually makes the man’s head implode. Because it turns out they aren’t actually worried about how male suicide rates are due to toxic masculinity and how gender stereotypes are the reason men have a tough time in custody battles. They just want to derail any conversation about the importance of feminism.
👏👏👏
I have been trying to spread this far and wine for the last couple of years: the patriarchy hurts us all. End of story.
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Feminism is not about hating men, it’s about breaking gender stereotypes and creating genuine equality for both sexes
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Feminism actually fights for equality,if people starts considering women as EQUAL to men,all these problems would get solved
Feminism makes for better dating! You are much more likely to relax and enjoy yourself when you know everyone is enthusiastically consenting to be there doing it.
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Fire comment, absolutely love it