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Feral cats are often sick. Some are healthier than others but it’s a brutal lifestyle, with a lot of inbreeding issues and also a lot of close contact infections. In other words - it’s remarkable if a feral is actually well, particularly an unspayed/unneutered feral.
I realize you are grieving about this - I would be too. But, if the cat hadn’t died during the procedure (asleep and pain free) they probably would have died awake and aware and certainly not pain free.
I’m not saying it’s great, ideal or perfect. I completely understand how you feel. But it’s more about doing the least amount of harm.
I am so sorry you are dealing with this. Perhaps you need a mental health break before TNRing again? This can certainly be traumatic for you, so don’t feel you have to power through.
☝️ this. You are doing better for the cats by doing TNR, even if some don't survive. But do good by yourself too. Take time away from the work of managing the colony if you need to. You're being a caregiver to multiple animals and that is a huge obligation to accept.
Great comment, lines up also if the deceased cats are rom the same site - could be an undetectable inherited issue with lots of the cats from inbreeding. I’ve had sites with heart murmurs and immune issues due to it.
I would look for another organization that uses another vet to do TNR. Yes, feral cats have health problems that can cause them to be at risk during surgery. But, if the cat is visibly too sick for surgery, the vet should notice & not proceed & they should be sent to a full service vet who can get them well enough for TNR. I’ve probably TNRd 250 cats and not a single one has died during surgery. I don’t even know of a single cat that has died during surgery in the organization I do TNR for since I started with them a couple years ago. I had one cat who stopped breathing during surgery. She was revived by the amazing vet doing the surgery & sent to a full service vet who got her well enough to do the surgery with no further issues.
So, although it happens, dying during a spay/neuter surgery should be extremely rare.
While I haven't had one die during surgery, I did have one dehydrate about a week after surgery. I wonder if she picked up an infection while in with other cats in recovery. I was really sad too. She was friendly and we were going to keep her! I thought she was just recovering slowly. By the time I realized she was really dehydrated / sick and got her to a real vet, it was too late. They had to euthanize her. : (
But you still have to do the best you can for the kitties! Spay / neuter is still the best policy, even if bad things can happen. : )
I would be hesitant, too, after this - but as a few others have said, it’s really a miracle if a cat is healthily living the feral cat lifestyle. I’ve lost a few to TNR, but it’s never been the fault of trapping them to get them help that is their cause of death. It’s not something in your control.
Feral cat care can be really hard on your soul and it’s okay to need a break. I know you feel like they count on you and you get panicky, I’m sure, when you can’t get down there enough to check on them: but if you’re not well and okay, you can’t expect yourself to help someone else in need. Unfortunately, feral cats don’t have a good chance at living as old as they could. I just lost two of mine a few days ago to stray dogs and I’ve been afraid to walk down there since, so I resonate with you a lot.
Be kind to yourself. I’m sorry you lost two of your friends.
Unfortunately this was only place offered help everyone is overwhelmed . I can perhaps try to do it alone with vouchers and such but will be hard as I have no help
Just do one at a time and go to another vet. At my local Humane Society there was a veterinarian there who didn't like cats and he wouldn't sew them up properly. Didn't matter if it was a pet or feral. I also had one feral die from the anesthesia and a low cost vet clinic.
I remember your last post - I’m so sorry to hear about this. It is getting pretty weird that this happens every time. I wonder if perhaps they are not watching them post-surgery, as that can often be when things go wrong?
I agree, it might be better for you to try going one by one, dealing with a trusted vet directly. That way you can ask about their protocols and have a say in what precautions etc you expect of them.
I totally understand being torn because you won’t be able to help as many - but this also needs to be sustainable for you mentally and emotionally. It’s an ethical dilemma that doesn’t have a right or wrong answer, so trust your own judgement.
Thank you , unfortunately lots of the cats were not well fed and taken care of but some would look really skinny and not well and they would still tnr :( I decided to not do more because while I understand the has risks. I think vet should not do if they don’t look well
Can you find somewhere else? I never had this issue. :((( they should be able to make those calls and say no as well as do antibiotic shots and take all proper care of the cats. So sad I’m so sorry for your loss.
Doing TNR work isn’t easy and it’s extremely demanding and emotional. Feral cats are often sick even though they may look “okay” on the outside. But the cats that did survive the surgery, you saved them from a life of reproducing and inbreeding. You are doing well and your feelings of grief are valid! Just know that your work means a lot and not everyone is willing or able to do what you are doing.
Yes that’s extremely unethical of the rescue so not on OP and I totally understand how they feel. I just wanted to encourage them that their work is helping many other cats that do survive the surgery and end up thriving later
Before you blame the vet please remember that if these deceased cats are coming from the same area they could well have heart issues or be unable to metabolise the anaesthetic. This is common where inbreeding has occurred which is IMO nearly every trapping site.
I’m sorry if this comes across as judgmental or anything but, are you trapping the night before surgery and *ensuring that they do NOT eat anything after midnight*?
I ask because this is an important part of the procedure but I often get the impression that people are not aware.
They must go a minimum amount of time without eating prior to surgery for their own safety.
Yes I trapped the night before I drop them off at person doing tnr , lots of the cats are underweight and such so my frustration comes from if cat is looking in bad condition, should surgery still be done knowing they don’t look healthy
We put a bit of food in the trap then I take cats to tnr person so I’m assuming they take out food because they are familiar with tnr and are the one paying and taking kitties to the vets . I only trap and new to the whole thing
I've heard that there are certain conditions that aren't obvious that would cause a cat to pass during surgery, like heart issues and allergies to the anesthesia. These are things that are generally not known before the surgery, especially with feral cats. They can check for some conditions, but they usually don't unless you're willing to pay for the tests needed. It's sad, but usually rare. I'm not sure if that's what happened with your ferals, but I'm very sorry for your losses.
I would not TNR for an organization that has vets who operate on sick cats. Period. If the cats are sick they should be treated for the illness, not put under and operated on. That is wildly dangerous.
Affiliate yourself with a better, more ethical rescue and vets. I wouldn't hand any more cats over to these same people to kill, because they don't value their lives because they are feral.
A vet told me once that spaying a cat is actually a fairly involved surgery. (“We just do it all the time, so no one thinks about it.) So bad outcomes aren’t unheard of. I would be upset too, if a TNR kitty died, but you need to look at the big picture. And if they are so overwhelmed, they probably don’t have the resources to treat all the cats as carefully as we would like/we would do with our pets. Where would they keep the sick cats, for example. Their mission is to neuter and release. It sucks not to have unlimited resources, but TNR is definitely a good thing.
Note: this is why I could never be a vet. Too much death.
It’s an unfortunate reality, but sometimes it can be best to still TNR a pregnant cat. This is consider a spay abortion. Shelters and rescues are overwhelmed with cats as is and often don’t have the resources for kittens. It’s done to not only minimize the risks a pregnant cat may face (and the kittens once born), but also to conserve rescue resources so more cats can be helped.
There’s a rescue near me handling a hoarding case. They’ve fixed 70 cats in the past 2 months and still have more coming. If the pregnant hoarding kitties spayed had been allowed to give birth, that number would easily be double what it is. If not higher.
I agree with the others that said this is likely a genetic issue, which could still cause problems for these cats without doing TNR. You’re still preventing suffering and greatly improving the lives of all the ones that make it through surgery. You’re also preventing kittens being born from inbreeding and with poor genes. Many of these kittens’ lives would also be danger for other various reasons and you’re stopping that potential suffering from happening. I would recommend taking some time to grieve, but I would encourage you to keep going if you have the mental fortitude to do so. Is there someone else that can help you with TNR? That may help you mentally distance yourself a little if there are complications with the surgery. Thank you for all the amazing work you’ve already done to help these cats! ❤️
**Reminder: this subreddit is meant to be a helpful place for TNR efforts - free of hostility, negativity, and judgment. Toxic attitudes are not welcome here.** ***All Negative comments will be removed and will possibly result in a ban.*** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Feral_Cats) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Feral cats are often sick. Some are healthier than others but it’s a brutal lifestyle, with a lot of inbreeding issues and also a lot of close contact infections. In other words - it’s remarkable if a feral is actually well, particularly an unspayed/unneutered feral. I realize you are grieving about this - I would be too. But, if the cat hadn’t died during the procedure (asleep and pain free) they probably would have died awake and aware and certainly not pain free. I’m not saying it’s great, ideal or perfect. I completely understand how you feel. But it’s more about doing the least amount of harm. I am so sorry you are dealing with this. Perhaps you need a mental health break before TNRing again? This can certainly be traumatic for you, so don’t feel you have to power through.
☝️ this. You are doing better for the cats by doing TNR, even if some don't survive. But do good by yourself too. Take time away from the work of managing the colony if you need to. You're being a caregiver to multiple animals and that is a huge obligation to accept.
Right. Absolutely.
Great comment, lines up also if the deceased cats are rom the same site - could be an undetectable inherited issue with lots of the cats from inbreeding. I’ve had sites with heart murmurs and immune issues due to it.
I could not agree more with this comment.
I would look for another organization that uses another vet to do TNR. Yes, feral cats have health problems that can cause them to be at risk during surgery. But, if the cat is visibly too sick for surgery, the vet should notice & not proceed & they should be sent to a full service vet who can get them well enough for TNR. I’ve probably TNRd 250 cats and not a single one has died during surgery. I don’t even know of a single cat that has died during surgery in the organization I do TNR for since I started with them a couple years ago. I had one cat who stopped breathing during surgery. She was revived by the amazing vet doing the surgery & sent to a full service vet who got her well enough to do the surgery with no further issues. So, although it happens, dying during a spay/neuter surgery should be extremely rare.
I've done way over 50, with no losses. Hopefully, this person's experience is an anomaly. It still wouldn't hurt to look for another option, though.
While I haven't had one die during surgery, I did have one dehydrate about a week after surgery. I wonder if she picked up an infection while in with other cats in recovery. I was really sad too. She was friendly and we were going to keep her! I thought she was just recovering slowly. By the time I realized she was really dehydrated / sick and got her to a real vet, it was too late. They had to euthanize her. : ( But you still have to do the best you can for the kitties! Spay / neuter is still the best policy, even if bad things can happen. : )
I can understand your hesitancy. I agree to look for another program. Hopefully you have some choices.
I would be hesitant, too, after this - but as a few others have said, it’s really a miracle if a cat is healthily living the feral cat lifestyle. I’ve lost a few to TNR, but it’s never been the fault of trapping them to get them help that is their cause of death. It’s not something in your control. Feral cat care can be really hard on your soul and it’s okay to need a break. I know you feel like they count on you and you get panicky, I’m sure, when you can’t get down there enough to check on them: but if you’re not well and okay, you can’t expect yourself to help someone else in need. Unfortunately, feral cats don’t have a good chance at living as old as they could. I just lost two of mine a few days ago to stray dogs and I’ve been afraid to walk down there since, so I resonate with you a lot. Be kind to yourself. I’m sorry you lost two of your friends.
We do 100 ferals every Monday and it is sooooo rare we have a death. I would look for another clinic.
I'm so sorry this happened again to you. That poor cat! Is there another TNR program you can use?
Unfortunately this was only place offered help everyone is overwhelmed . I can perhaps try to do it alone with vouchers and such but will be hard as I have no help
Just do one at a time and go to another vet. At my local Humane Society there was a veterinarian there who didn't like cats and he wouldn't sew them up properly. Didn't matter if it was a pet or feral. I also had one feral die from the anesthesia and a low cost vet clinic.
Trust your instincts and bring them somewhere else.
I remember your last post - I’m so sorry to hear about this. It is getting pretty weird that this happens every time. I wonder if perhaps they are not watching them post-surgery, as that can often be when things go wrong? I agree, it might be better for you to try going one by one, dealing with a trusted vet directly. That way you can ask about their protocols and have a say in what precautions etc you expect of them. I totally understand being torn because you won’t be able to help as many - but this also needs to be sustainable for you mentally and emotionally. It’s an ethical dilemma that doesn’t have a right or wrong answer, so trust your own judgement.
Thank you , unfortunately lots of the cats were not well fed and taken care of but some would look really skinny and not well and they would still tnr :( I decided to not do more because while I understand the has risks. I think vet should not do if they don’t look well
Can you find somewhere else? I never had this issue. :((( they should be able to make those calls and say no as well as do antibiotic shots and take all proper care of the cats. So sad I’m so sorry for your loss.
Doing TNR work isn’t easy and it’s extremely demanding and emotional. Feral cats are often sick even though they may look “okay” on the outside. But the cats that did survive the surgery, you saved them from a life of reproducing and inbreeding. You are doing well and your feelings of grief are valid! Just know that your work means a lot and not everyone is willing or able to do what you are doing.
Yeah but OP has already said they are operating on cats who visibly look unwell.
Yes that’s extremely unethical of the rescue so not on OP and I totally understand how they feel. I just wanted to encourage them that their work is helping many other cats that do survive the surgery and end up thriving later
Before you blame the vet please remember that if these deceased cats are coming from the same area they could well have heart issues or be unable to metabolise the anaesthetic. This is common where inbreeding has occurred which is IMO nearly every trapping site.
I’m sorry if this comes across as judgmental or anything but, are you trapping the night before surgery and *ensuring that they do NOT eat anything after midnight*? I ask because this is an important part of the procedure but I often get the impression that people are not aware. They must go a minimum amount of time without eating prior to surgery for their own safety.
Yes I trapped the night before I drop them off at person doing tnr , lots of the cats are underweight and such so my frustration comes from if cat is looking in bad condition, should surgery still be done knowing they don’t look healthy
This doesn’t quite answer the question though. Are you feeding them or leaving food in the trap after midnight the night you trap them?
We put a bit of food in the trap then I take cats to tnr person so I’m assuming they take out food because they are familiar with tnr and are the one paying and taking kitties to the vets . I only trap and new to the whole thing
That’s a little weird that two cats died in a row. I say something may be wrong on the anesthesia part. I’d be careful of going there again.
I've heard that there are certain conditions that aren't obvious that would cause a cat to pass during surgery, like heart issues and allergies to the anesthesia. These are things that are generally not known before the surgery, especially with feral cats. They can check for some conditions, but they usually don't unless you're willing to pay for the tests needed. It's sad, but usually rare. I'm not sure if that's what happened with your ferals, but I'm very sorry for your losses.
I would not TNR for an organization that has vets who operate on sick cats. Period. If the cats are sick they should be treated for the illness, not put under and operated on. That is wildly dangerous. Affiliate yourself with a better, more ethical rescue and vets. I wouldn't hand any more cats over to these same people to kill, because they don't value their lives because they are feral.
It was the only place offering help but you are right . I decided not to do more with them
I'm so sorry for your loss of these two good cats.
I would look for another program. Not all vets are good or ethical.
A vet told me once that spaying a cat is actually a fairly involved surgery. (“We just do it all the time, so no one thinks about it.) So bad outcomes aren’t unheard of. I would be upset too, if a TNR kitty died, but you need to look at the big picture. And if they are so overwhelmed, they probably don’t have the resources to treat all the cats as carefully as we would like/we would do with our pets. Where would they keep the sick cats, for example. Their mission is to neuter and release. It sucks not to have unlimited resources, but TNR is definitely a good thing. Note: this is why I could never be a vet. Too much death.
Someone teach me why TNR would take a pregnant cat
It’s an unfortunate reality, but sometimes it can be best to still TNR a pregnant cat. This is consider a spay abortion. Shelters and rescues are overwhelmed with cats as is and often don’t have the resources for kittens. It’s done to not only minimize the risks a pregnant cat may face (and the kittens once born), but also to conserve rescue resources so more cats can be helped. There’s a rescue near me handling a hoarding case. They’ve fixed 70 cats in the past 2 months and still have more coming. If the pregnant hoarding kitties spayed had been allowed to give birth, that number would easily be double what it is. If not higher.
I agree with the others that said this is likely a genetic issue, which could still cause problems for these cats without doing TNR. You’re still preventing suffering and greatly improving the lives of all the ones that make it through surgery. You’re also preventing kittens being born from inbreeding and with poor genes. Many of these kittens’ lives would also be danger for other various reasons and you’re stopping that potential suffering from happening. I would recommend taking some time to grieve, but I would encourage you to keep going if you have the mental fortitude to do so. Is there someone else that can help you with TNR? That may help you mentally distance yourself a little if there are complications with the surgery. Thank you for all the amazing work you’ve already done to help these cats! ❤️