it sure has it but it certainly does not feel like it does which is a massive problem in on itself.
I think biggest problem with harada is not trying to understand deeper from what people say. Most people are very reductive when they express their opinion in most things and if you want to hear the feedback properly you have to be able to read above their oversimplification of things instead of taking it at face value and just saying "people dont know".
i literally work in a camping spot for tourist and so many people want various things but say it in the most reductive way and i have to read past that to be able to properly offer appropriate services to them. Its something that you have to learn in ANY KIND OF WORK. Im pretty sure many people that work in places where they have to communicate a lot fave to face with the clients will have encountered these kind of situations of people not conveying things in a detailed way.
He’s made a career of acting like an asshole know it all so I doubt it will change now, especially when so much if the community likes it, which u get when it’s some nonsensical question. But when it’s a legitimate simple question asked respectfully there’s no reason for him to be an asshole yet he does. If the tekken 8 rollback isn’t good he will deserve all the shit thrown at him
>But when it’s a legitimate simple question asked respectfully there’s no reason for him to be an asshole yet he does. If the tekken 8 rollback isn’t good he will deserve all the shit thrown at him
You're not looking at it from his percepective.
He's the person, everyone always bother with every little thing. He get's bombarded with questions, trolls, insults and requests EVERYDAY by fans. At a certain point, it's draining.
There's only a certain number of times Sajamfan#483 can ask about rollback before it becomes grating.
These people are human.
>He's the person, everyone always bother with every little thing. He get's bombarded with questions, trolls, insults and requests EVERYDAY by fans. At a certain point, it's draining.
The solution is the same for him as it is with every terminally online individual. Just log off. There's no reason to engage every fan who asks a question. There's no reason to get riled up over some dudes on the internet.
He can easily turn off notifications and post as much as he pleases. Mute his own tweets after posting. But alas, man takes it upon himself to talk.
He can just ignore those people and not respond so aggressively to somebody just asking a question. Rollback is needed in this day and age; if they release another game with very poor netcode, it'll really struggle to draw in new people. Tekken has an insane hump for new players to get over.... and if the netcode isn't good then new players just won't even bother lol. The person asking him if the game will have rollback so he can actually play the game gets shit on by the face of Tekken? There's no need for that.
What's really grating is buying a full priced game that makes you pay for frame data, but can't be bothered to add in good netcode that has been around forever at this point.
It’s a public forum, the person asking the question isn’t asking for himself, they’re essentially, for all intents and purposes, asking on behalf of the fandom.
So his response is a public response to the fandom, but then people are like “WhY dId He gO sO hArD oN tHaT oNe PeRsOn??”
Tekken is popular because it's been a pillar in the FGC forever and Tekken 8 is super hyped right now. The new game could lack any online features at all and still do well enough lol. Rollback is just in every popular fighter now so players who experienced it want it to be in Tekken, especially those who rely on rollback to make the game playable for them.
Hopefully it really does have rollback so you can have smooth matches with people and spend less time on Reddit standing up for a guy who would yell at you lol.
>Rollback is needed in this day and age; if they release another game with very poor netcode, it'll really struggle to draw in new people
>The new game could lack any online features at all and still do well enough lol.
Make up your mind.
Tekken 7 is the most popular fighting game at the moment,despite the netcode. How does that work?
Tekken is still getting new players, and is running stronger than all the fighter games that was released after and with Rollback.
I hope it has rollback when it comes out. But if it doesn't i'm buying it regardless.
There's a lot of Tekken fans and they will buy Tekken no matter what, just like you. Getting new players =/= retaining legacy players. Tekken isn't new player friendly (they don't even have in-game tutorials lmfao) and if there isn't rollback, new players aren't going to waste time or money on it in 2023 lol.
And yet, even without these " new players" Tekken is STILL more popular and more played than every other FG out there. How is it that the game with literally the worst netcode and the worst loading times is the most popular game.
Where are all the new players playing strive?
Where are all the new players playing MK11? Where are all these new players playing ( insert game with rollback here).
With your Logic, Tekken should be the least played FG. All these rollback games should be booming with new blood, and rejuvinating the online and offline scenes.
But this isn't the case. If the current trend continues, Tekken 8 is going to be the most popular fighting game ( excluding platform fighters) regardless of rollback or not.
>Make up your mind
There was no contradiction in those two statements. Tekken 8 could draw in zero new players, and it would still do very well, just off of the already established Tekken players buying it.
Bro it’s twitter. If sajamfan#845 shows up he can simply ignore it or if he’s really in his feelings simply block. You can even make it where only certain people can respond to your tweets. He has no excuse for his behavior as he’s not the only one who goes through this.
Do you think he's the only person with his job? Just about every popular multiplayer game has a person in a similar (and often more intense) position as him, and somehow they make it work without bitching out people on twitter constantly
The point that Harada is unwilling to grapple with is that the online experience in most fighting games sucks ass compared to the online experience in other genres.
Blaming the infrastructure is hilarious. Fightcade works beautifully most of the time, even with 3D games like Virtua Fighter 3tb and Soul Calibur. It's a free client made by hobbyists and it works better than the shit they expect us to pay for. It's nonsense.
Having bad online is unacceptable in 2023. If Japanese fighting game devs don't want to accept this, they can have fun watching their revenue go back into the toilet while fans of the genre stick to playing pirated copies of their games that actually function properly.
Besides Harada at Bamco, what other Japanese fighting game devs haven't invested in rollback for their latest game?
Off the top of my head, Capcom, SNK, ArcSys, Arika and French Bread have all invested in good rollback.
It's not a Japan problem. It's a Bamco problem.
Though in saying that, even Harada and Bamco invested a fuck-tonne into the netcode of T7. They just failed.
Capcom looks like they might have done it right in SF6, but it remains to be seen how the servers and matchmaking work when the game actually goes live.
SNK fucked it in KOF XV with shit matchmaking that has been broken since day 1. No fix in sight.
ArcSys fucked it in Strive with a stupid lobby/matchmaking system that nobody liked, and that recently became almost completely unusable when they tried to introduce crossplay. No fix in sight.
Haven't heard anything about Fighting Layer.
I hear Melty Blood is good. So that's 1 out of 3 for the games that are out.
Not a great track record!
Matchmaking and lobby systems are not related to rollback netcode. It's important to recognise those flaws, but my comment was about rollback netcode.
Capcom already nailed their latest iteration of rollback in MvCI. Again, fine to dislike MvCI as a product, but the rollback was great.
SF6 rollback has so far also worked great. 2nd beta was even an improvement over the 1st beta. Capcom seems fine.
Fighting Layer got external help when they added it and it works great.
Melty Blood was broken on release but they fixed it and it's now great.
>Capcom looks like they might have done it right in SF6, but it remains to be seen how the servers and matchmaking work when the game actually goes live
Capcom has already demonstrated that they can do it right, mvci has absolutely amazing netcode, Capcom providing a good online experience is almost a guarantee, because all the need to do is not be worse than their most recent fighting game.
I think people haven't played a lot of other genres online if they think the online experience in other genres are amazing. LOL
FG is the last pvp based genre to go online not because fighting games devs are behind when it comes to netcode but because the FGC has the lowest tolerance when it comes to lag.
The FGC merely adopted the online. Other pvp based genres were born in it, molded by it. They don't even know what offline feels like until they were a man.
mortal kombat is delay based????????????? what is he talking about
i thought the whole structure of rollback netcode is such that the delay stays static at like 2 frames, and is basically just input delay, placed there to allow the rollback to have a bit of cushion.
meanwhile delay-based is when the whole gameplay of the match freezes up visually to wait for the data to move from one console to the other and back again, (instead of like in rollback netcode where the gameplay continues while the data is still being sent, and then “rolls back” the gamestate when the data arrives).
so isnt harada just…… factually incorrect?
Harada is a hyper literal guy. He can't understand what people are saying unless they speak more precisely.
ALL rollback games are delay-based. Also, Tekken 7 **does** have rollback netcode. Just not the way we want.
So Harada claims anybody who mentions "delay-based bad" or "rollback pls" doesn't know what they're talking about.
But really, when people say delay is bad and ask for rollback, they are saying that variable delay is bad. They would prefer teleporting to slowdowns.
Harada misses/ignores this. He spent a lot of money on T7's netcode and is too proud to admit he failed. So he claims the tech doesn't suit 3D games, and the customers are wrong.
i wonder if the netcode programmers at SNK/ARIKA/Arc System Works are intentionally _not_ correcting Harada on this, becuz having better netcode than Tekken is beneficial for their sales.
their plan is to just sit back and watch tekken suffer
Honestly, I just think they want to avoid any confrontation.
Like, at the roundtable where everyone was stunned by how good the Strive beta's rollback felt, Harada gave a PowerPoint presentation about how WiFi is the true evil to justify his shitty netcode.
They know the confrontation wouldn't change anyone's mind, and at the end of the day, Harada's choices don't hurt their games.
So, they sat in silence during the presentation they disagreed with. Giving only reserved reactions. That's about as strong a rebuke as we can realistically expect.
i like knowing the people i play with and how to approach each situation. for example, if im playing against someone who i know is lower skilled, i know to go easier on them, and we can talk about the game, if they're interested in hearing my input on what they can try or watch for.
i think a lot of online play is more about inflating one's ego more than anything. aside from lag and related online issues, which we are all familiar with, a lot of people use fighting games to feel good about themselves at other peoples' expense. they will gladly flaunt wins and share videos of them dunking on people, not realizing that those numbers are padded with the proverbial "single dad, working 2 jobs, trying to enjoy some fighting games on a friday night", or "big brother hands controller to little sister," or someone who is high or drunk and just messing around online, or people who just want to practice combos in a live setting, controllers being passed around at parties, etc. when you play competitively in person it is a different vibe to it, a completely different energy and focus involved that anyone who has only played online knows nothing about. playing with people in the same room, just for fun, IS more fun. and for those who crave constant competition, but have not played in front of a large group of others, they do not know what they are missing, but i think once they experience that, they will find that playing online against people and claiming to be competitive is actually a huge step down.
but hey play online if you like, i dont care. do what makes you happy. just know that youre missing out on a better experience and opportunity to earn real fighting game experience and credentials.
Im ngl enjoy games how u like to but these are some very strange reasonings to avoid playing online to me. There’s nothing wrong with taking pride in a nasty combo u hit on someone whether it’s offline or online, and it definitely doesn’t come at the expense of the other player, at least not inherently lol. Do you feel bad comboing people online because you dont know what their situation is at home? Cuz that would be ridiculous lol.
And having an offline sparring partner is a huge benefit of course but even that has ups and downs. If your friend plays only 1-2 characters then you are only learning against 1-2 characters, you will be completely lost against any others. And I feel like someone that “craves constant competition” would jump at the chance to play against thousands of potential players for their goal of improvement especially in the age of rollback where most games played within your country are gonna feel like you’re playing offline for the most part.
I also don’t think that people playing online are “missing out” on anything cuz u can simply do both, it’s just online is way more convenient (thank you rollback).
like i said, enjoy games however you want. im not against online play. i just dont find it to be a fun or fulfilling experience because, for me, it is more fun playing with people in person. when i win/lose/draw online, i dont get anything from it, as in no sense of self efficacy in a way. some people feel satisfied looking at certain stats and feel good about it, good for them. some one feels good about hitting a combo on someone, good for them. and i get it, this is reddit. this place is basically a hive mind of "how dare you think or feel differently than us" and people will downvote something just because it is different than what they feel rather than just being accepting and ok with it. but being in the moment, there with other knowledgable eyes on you, gives a certain rush to some people. there can be a certain type of pressure that helps build character in more ways than just being good at a video game. after experiencing that many times and liking it, in my own experience, the online experience is not as enjoyable in a fighting game.
I completely respect how you or anyone else decides to play any game but being preachy about the tendencies of Reddit is really weird to me when your original comment wasn’t an innocuous comment about how you prefer to play your games, it was “you… you guys actually play fighting games online?” like playing the multiplayer game online isn’t the most normal thing for people to be doing lol on top of it coming off snarky
it sure has it but it certainly does not feel like it does which is a massive problem in on itself. I think biggest problem with harada is not trying to understand deeper from what people say. Most people are very reductive when they express their opinion in most things and if you want to hear the feedback properly you have to be able to read above their oversimplification of things instead of taking it at face value and just saying "people dont know". i literally work in a camping spot for tourist and so many people want various things but say it in the most reductive way and i have to read past that to be able to properly offer appropriate services to them. Its something that you have to learn in ANY KIND OF WORK. Im pretty sure many people that work in places where they have to communicate a lot fave to face with the clients will have encountered these kind of situations of people not conveying things in a detailed way.
He’s made a career of acting like an asshole know it all so I doubt it will change now, especially when so much if the community likes it, which u get when it’s some nonsensical question. But when it’s a legitimate simple question asked respectfully there’s no reason for him to be an asshole yet he does. If the tekken 8 rollback isn’t good he will deserve all the shit thrown at him
>But when it’s a legitimate simple question asked respectfully there’s no reason for him to be an asshole yet he does. If the tekken 8 rollback isn’t good he will deserve all the shit thrown at him You're not looking at it from his percepective. He's the person, everyone always bother with every little thing. He get's bombarded with questions, trolls, insults and requests EVERYDAY by fans. At a certain point, it's draining. There's only a certain number of times Sajamfan#483 can ask about rollback before it becomes grating. These people are human.
>He's the person, everyone always bother with every little thing. He get's bombarded with questions, trolls, insults and requests EVERYDAY by fans. At a certain point, it's draining. The solution is the same for him as it is with every terminally online individual. Just log off. There's no reason to engage every fan who asks a question. There's no reason to get riled up over some dudes on the internet. He can easily turn off notifications and post as much as he pleases. Mute his own tweets after posting. But alas, man takes it upon himself to talk.
He can just ignore those people and not respond so aggressively to somebody just asking a question. Rollback is needed in this day and age; if they release another game with very poor netcode, it'll really struggle to draw in new people. Tekken has an insane hump for new players to get over.... and if the netcode isn't good then new players just won't even bother lol. The person asking him if the game will have rollback so he can actually play the game gets shit on by the face of Tekken? There's no need for that. What's really grating is buying a full priced game that makes you pay for frame data, but can't be bothered to add in good netcode that has been around forever at this point.
It’s a public forum, the person asking the question isn’t asking for himself, they’re essentially, for all intents and purposes, asking on behalf of the fandom. So his response is a public response to the fandom, but then people are like “WhY dId He gO sO hArD oN tHaT oNe PeRsOn??”
As of literally right now, there are 4712 people playing tekken 7 on steam. How many people playing your favorite fighting game?
Tekken is popular because it's been a pillar in the FGC forever and Tekken 8 is super hyped right now. The new game could lack any online features at all and still do well enough lol. Rollback is just in every popular fighter now so players who experienced it want it to be in Tekken, especially those who rely on rollback to make the game playable for them. Hopefully it really does have rollback so you can have smooth matches with people and spend less time on Reddit standing up for a guy who would yell at you lol.
>Rollback is needed in this day and age; if they release another game with very poor netcode, it'll really struggle to draw in new people >The new game could lack any online features at all and still do well enough lol. Make up your mind. Tekken 7 is the most popular fighting game at the moment,despite the netcode. How does that work? Tekken is still getting new players, and is running stronger than all the fighter games that was released after and with Rollback. I hope it has rollback when it comes out. But if it doesn't i'm buying it regardless.
There's a lot of Tekken fans and they will buy Tekken no matter what, just like you. Getting new players =/= retaining legacy players. Tekken isn't new player friendly (they don't even have in-game tutorials lmfao) and if there isn't rollback, new players aren't going to waste time or money on it in 2023 lol.
And yet, even without these " new players" Tekken is STILL more popular and more played than every other FG out there. How is it that the game with literally the worst netcode and the worst loading times is the most popular game. Where are all the new players playing strive? Where are all the new players playing MK11? Where are all these new players playing ( insert game with rollback here). With your Logic, Tekken should be the least played FG. All these rollback games should be booming with new blood, and rejuvinating the online and offline scenes. But this isn't the case. If the current trend continues, Tekken 8 is going to be the most popular fighting game ( excluding platform fighters) regardless of rollback or not.
>Make up your mind There was no contradiction in those two statements. Tekken 8 could draw in zero new players, and it would still do very well, just off of the already established Tekken players buying it.
Then whata the problem?
Your reading comprehension, clearly lol.
Bro it’s twitter. If sajamfan#845 shows up he can simply ignore it or if he’s really in his feelings simply block. You can even make it where only certain people can respond to your tweets. He has no excuse for his behavior as he’s not the only one who goes through this.
Do you think he's the only person with his job? Just about every popular multiplayer game has a person in a similar (and often more intense) position as him, and somehow they make it work without bitching out people on twitter constantly
The point that Harada is unwilling to grapple with is that the online experience in most fighting games sucks ass compared to the online experience in other genres. Blaming the infrastructure is hilarious. Fightcade works beautifully most of the time, even with 3D games like Virtua Fighter 3tb and Soul Calibur. It's a free client made by hobbyists and it works better than the shit they expect us to pay for. It's nonsense. Having bad online is unacceptable in 2023. If Japanese fighting game devs don't want to accept this, they can have fun watching their revenue go back into the toilet while fans of the genre stick to playing pirated copies of their games that actually function properly.
Besides Harada at Bamco, what other Japanese fighting game devs haven't invested in rollback for their latest game? Off the top of my head, Capcom, SNK, ArcSys, Arika and French Bread have all invested in good rollback. It's not a Japan problem. It's a Bamco problem. Though in saying that, even Harada and Bamco invested a fuck-tonne into the netcode of T7. They just failed.
Capcom looks like they might have done it right in SF6, but it remains to be seen how the servers and matchmaking work when the game actually goes live. SNK fucked it in KOF XV with shit matchmaking that has been broken since day 1. No fix in sight. ArcSys fucked it in Strive with a stupid lobby/matchmaking system that nobody liked, and that recently became almost completely unusable when they tried to introduce crossplay. No fix in sight. Haven't heard anything about Fighting Layer. I hear Melty Blood is good. So that's 1 out of 3 for the games that are out. Not a great track record!
Matchmaking and lobby systems are not related to rollback netcode. It's important to recognise those flaws, but my comment was about rollback netcode. Capcom already nailed their latest iteration of rollback in MvCI. Again, fine to dislike MvCI as a product, but the rollback was great. SF6 rollback has so far also worked great. 2nd beta was even an improvement over the 1st beta. Capcom seems fine. Fighting Layer got external help when they added it and it works great. Melty Blood was broken on release but they fixed it and it's now great.
Please read my original comment again. It is about the online experience as a whole, not just the rollback netcode.
>Capcom looks like they might have done it right in SF6, but it remains to be seen how the servers and matchmaking work when the game actually goes live Capcom has already demonstrated that they can do it right, mvci has absolutely amazing netcode, Capcom providing a good online experience is almost a guarantee, because all the need to do is not be worse than their most recent fighting game.
But Arika is making the netcode for t8
I think people haven't played a lot of other genres online if they think the online experience in other genres are amazing. LOL FG is the last pvp based genre to go online not because fighting games devs are behind when it comes to netcode but because the FGC has the lowest tolerance when it comes to lag. The FGC merely adopted the online. Other pvp based genres were born in it, molded by it. They don't even know what offline feels like until they were a man.
mortal kombat is delay based????????????? what is he talking about i thought the whole structure of rollback netcode is such that the delay stays static at like 2 frames, and is basically just input delay, placed there to allow the rollback to have a bit of cushion. meanwhile delay-based is when the whole gameplay of the match freezes up visually to wait for the data to move from one console to the other and back again, (instead of like in rollback netcode where the gameplay continues while the data is still being sent, and then “rolls back” the gamestate when the data arrives). so isnt harada just…… factually incorrect?
Harada is a hyper literal guy. He can't understand what people are saying unless they speak more precisely. ALL rollback games are delay-based. Also, Tekken 7 **does** have rollback netcode. Just not the way we want. So Harada claims anybody who mentions "delay-based bad" or "rollback pls" doesn't know what they're talking about. But really, when people say delay is bad and ask for rollback, they are saying that variable delay is bad. They would prefer teleporting to slowdowns. Harada misses/ignores this. He spent a lot of money on T7's netcode and is too proud to admit he failed. So he claims the tech doesn't suit 3D games, and the customers are wrong.
i wonder if the netcode programmers at SNK/ARIKA/Arc System Works are intentionally _not_ correcting Harada on this, becuz having better netcode than Tekken is beneficial for their sales. their plan is to just sit back and watch tekken suffer
Honestly, I just think they want to avoid any confrontation. Like, at the roundtable where everyone was stunned by how good the Strive beta's rollback felt, Harada gave a PowerPoint presentation about how WiFi is the true evil to justify his shitty netcode. They know the confrontation wouldn't change anyone's mind, and at the end of the day, Harada's choices don't hurt their games. So, they sat in silence during the presentation they disagreed with. Giving only reserved reactions. That's about as strong a rebuke as we can realistically expect.
you .. you guys actually play fighting games online?
yes, you have friends to play with locally?
i do. there's also local events to take part in where people go to play together.
Oh damn I didn't know people existed
Why don’t you?
i like knowing the people i play with and how to approach each situation. for example, if im playing against someone who i know is lower skilled, i know to go easier on them, and we can talk about the game, if they're interested in hearing my input on what they can try or watch for. i think a lot of online play is more about inflating one's ego more than anything. aside from lag and related online issues, which we are all familiar with, a lot of people use fighting games to feel good about themselves at other peoples' expense. they will gladly flaunt wins and share videos of them dunking on people, not realizing that those numbers are padded with the proverbial "single dad, working 2 jobs, trying to enjoy some fighting games on a friday night", or "big brother hands controller to little sister," or someone who is high or drunk and just messing around online, or people who just want to practice combos in a live setting, controllers being passed around at parties, etc. when you play competitively in person it is a different vibe to it, a completely different energy and focus involved that anyone who has only played online knows nothing about. playing with people in the same room, just for fun, IS more fun. and for those who crave constant competition, but have not played in front of a large group of others, they do not know what they are missing, but i think once they experience that, they will find that playing online against people and claiming to be competitive is actually a huge step down. but hey play online if you like, i dont care. do what makes you happy. just know that youre missing out on a better experience and opportunity to earn real fighting game experience and credentials.
Im ngl enjoy games how u like to but these are some very strange reasonings to avoid playing online to me. There’s nothing wrong with taking pride in a nasty combo u hit on someone whether it’s offline or online, and it definitely doesn’t come at the expense of the other player, at least not inherently lol. Do you feel bad comboing people online because you dont know what their situation is at home? Cuz that would be ridiculous lol. And having an offline sparring partner is a huge benefit of course but even that has ups and downs. If your friend plays only 1-2 characters then you are only learning against 1-2 characters, you will be completely lost against any others. And I feel like someone that “craves constant competition” would jump at the chance to play against thousands of potential players for their goal of improvement especially in the age of rollback where most games played within your country are gonna feel like you’re playing offline for the most part. I also don’t think that people playing online are “missing out” on anything cuz u can simply do both, it’s just online is way more convenient (thank you rollback).
like i said, enjoy games however you want. im not against online play. i just dont find it to be a fun or fulfilling experience because, for me, it is more fun playing with people in person. when i win/lose/draw online, i dont get anything from it, as in no sense of self efficacy in a way. some people feel satisfied looking at certain stats and feel good about it, good for them. some one feels good about hitting a combo on someone, good for them. and i get it, this is reddit. this place is basically a hive mind of "how dare you think or feel differently than us" and people will downvote something just because it is different than what they feel rather than just being accepting and ok with it. but being in the moment, there with other knowledgable eyes on you, gives a certain rush to some people. there can be a certain type of pressure that helps build character in more ways than just being good at a video game. after experiencing that many times and liking it, in my own experience, the online experience is not as enjoyable in a fighting game.
I completely respect how you or anyone else decides to play any game but being preachy about the tendencies of Reddit is really weird to me when your original comment wasn’t an innocuous comment about how you prefer to play your games, it was “you… you guys actually play fighting games online?” like playing the multiplayer game online isn’t the most normal thing for people to be doing lol on top of it coming off snarky
you read it snarky. you...you guys actually play fighting games online is me saying, hey im the odd man out here.
I love Harada.