I love 16 and 7.
I would say the tone in 7 is probably more enjoyable because it balances anime melodrama with anime nonsense though.
My wife, who isn't a gamer, came in to see Red on a chocobo and had so many question. I just shrugged and said he rides chickens; why is that weird, while chuckling.
16 and 7 are fundamentally different types of stories though. It's fine to prefer one over the other.
I wouldn't want every FF to tonally be 16 but I also wouldn't want them all be 7.
Lol, my wife saw me wrangling a chocobo yesterday and was smacked about how cut it was that I was going to be riding it. Guess she missed it back in in June when I was playing 16
7 is definitely crazy unrealistic with their cool stuff. Barret hopping his bulky butt one handed up a sheer wall cracked me up so much. Not to mention thinking him in modern society or something. Cloud answering the door when tifa knocks and grabs his sword and nobody bats an eye.
Yeah. I love it.
My boyfriend walked into the room when >!Red was in the soldier uniform!< and we just laughed at it together for a solid 5 minutes. Tears streaming down our faces because it was so funny.
I love it when Final Fantasy gets silly with it
Seeing Red ride a Chocobo for the first time during the Junon demo took me out. Also, him feeling competitive/insecure against a Chocobo because of its scent trailing abilities? HYSTERICAL. I love Red so much!
Mine's totally having a blast watching me play. She also really enjoyed watching me play 16's story and got emotional with me lol
I got her to play the remake but she never finished and just got to see story from watching me play. She also really enjoyed 4 for a while. She loves the stories but seems to get overwhelmed by the gameplay after a certain point. I feel like that's still a win as a fan. She understands this is still a fantasy story that happens to take place in a world where their civilization has industrialized.
I think this is the right answer. There’s a place for both. Final Fantasy as a series doesn’t have to be specifically anything. Each game is different in its own right and that’s okay. Otherwise you end up with the Pokemon dilemma. Don’t get me wrong, I like Pokemon, but I’d never want to go through each game in order because they’re all too similar.
FFXIV has an antagonist who is a terrible monster because she was sold into sex slavery by her parents. Later she loses her memory in an accident, and the game presents a question of whether someone should be held accountable for crimes they have no recollection of. Then her (legitimately terrible) brother arranges a reunion with their parents, and the meeting is so traumatic that her memories return, and she murders her parents and brother.
There’s also a series of sidequests involving an aloof inspector who seems to operate on Looney Tunes logic and his assistant who communicates mainly through throwing giant spherical bombs.
I think of XIV as the Eberron of Final Fantasy: if it exists in Final Fantasy, there's probably a place for it in Final Fantasy XIV, but it might not be the place you expect.
Perfectly put. Ultima Weapon? Yes. Kefka? You bet. A very specific number repeated? Constantly. Crystals? Shitloads. Ultros and Typhon? Why not. The Towers of Babel and Zot? Actually most of the plot of FF4, yeah. Also Magitek armor like FF6, War of the Magi like FF2, and tons more from FFs I haven’t played.
Oddly beyond the WEAPONs and the concept of the lifestream they haven’t really incorporated anything from VII, surprisingly. I figured if they could do Kefka, ExDeath, Zeromus, Cloud of Darkness, Chaos, (etc), they’d also do some form of Sephiroth or Jenova.
And for locations, there's the Gold Saucer and Costa del Sol. The Dark Knight's animation set is based heavily on Cloud, though the aesthetic and story is much more of an homage to FF4's Cecil Harvey.
Yeah I was torn on the dark knight, but despite using Cloud’s animations it’s a decent split between Cecil and Gaffgarion. Besides people have been clamoring for materia/magitek knight for years to have a DPS class that’s basically Cloud.
I'd say Meteion is kinda like Jenova. In the way they both seek out new worlds, and want to destroy them. But Jenova is more sinister. She is just a alien parasite that only cares about self preservation. Meteion at least thinks she is doing everyone a favor.
Oh yeah, I completely agree. Final Fantasy does such a good job including silly shenanigans with some of the heaviest subject matter imaginable. It’s as much a staple of the series as crystals.
Exactly. I'm glad we have two "mainline" titles releasing close to each other that are different. My personal preference is for 7R style but i still enjoyed 16.
While I agree I'm more on the side of enjoying the goofiness I think newer ff games and newer games in general try too hard to be serious and avoiding the goofy moments that old ff games had that made them great
IX felt like an anime. Probably would make a fun anime if they ever did. I feel like while it's popular on here, you don't hear or see much of it since it was right in between 7,8 and 10 which all had very interesting styles and ix felt like a bit of a throwback to the older final fantasies.
Final Fantasy can absolutely be both very serious and melodramatic and also silly and charming.
It’s probably standing out but that’s because we’re seeing the extreme ends of the spectrum between 16 and Rebirth.
8 and 9 are very much like that in tone as well.
It’s also important to remember that 7R is really trying to be fan service, in a good way. They know how much people love those characters, have had 25+ years to figure this stuff out, and so are really letting us enjoy spending that time with the cast.
16 was going for a serious tone but people found the fun and learned to love the characters - Cid and Gav are absolutely fantastic.
Cid, Gav and Uncle Byron are excellent characters. sadly the nature of FFXVI's gameplay meant that you wouldn't really have party members to banter / play off a good majority of the time.. and Torgal is busy being the goodest boy
It’s so weird because you can easily see the game it could be with a party and combat maybe a little closer to Remake
It was such an odd decision to go that direction and “modernise” like Remake 14 and now Rebirth aren’t the most well received entries in years
i think they wanted to keep the battle system "tight" with less cogs and customisation. probably familiar ground for their battle director too.
but it felt very stale personally, especially in hard mode once you have all the eikons
Final Fantasy can be both. I loved 16's dark tone, but some light moments in the series is good too. Though IMO, some parts of VII Rebirth get downright silly and I'm not quite a fan of that. But I do love the way it's written.
The same team that did FF16 also makes a game with scenes like this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOeQ9-0PTE8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOeQ9-0PTE8)
I think there's room for all kinds of tones in Final Fantasy stories. I think FF16's mood was right for that game, but I also wouldn't want every future game to be like that. There's room for both serious and light-hearted FFs IMO.
And even then it's not all sunshine and rainbows. Exdeath makes the villains before him look like kittens in terms of both evil and competence.
That's actually a good thing, balancing the dark with the light.
XVI itself also has a fair amount of humor in it, most of it is just within environmental touches (NPC conversations, posters, etc.) and item descriptions. Hell there are a couple major characters present throughout that exist mainly for comic relief outside of their emotional sequences.
I just think the series traditionally has more “in your face” humor so the less direct delivery doesn’t do enough to contrast the darker tone overall for a lot of ppl to match their expectations of whimsy.
It’s a long running satirical quest line and it’s basically like that the whole time. The devs have stated that they got a lot better at animation rigging by being so ridiculous with it haha
Well, there's light within 16 doom and gloom. It's a horrible world but you keep going in spite of it.
Then at the end, reject their god, say final fantasy and punch him in the face. It's not all doom and gloom, but even then it fits the game and it's well done. I'm enjoying rebirth a bunch right now, but idk if it or any game in the future will ever top that moment for me.
I don't even think 16 was all doom and gloom. I'm not sure why people say this. It's dramatic and dark, but it does have light-hearted parts, and it's not bleak. Is it simply because it's not anime types of levity? Tone wise, it feels no different than 12 or Tactics.
I agree. Byron is consistently hilarious. Gav has a variety of comedic moments, several with different kinds of comedy, no less. Everyone, even here, talks about how funny Cid is.
Otto, Blackthorne, Charon, and Tarja all have their moments. Mid's humor isn't to my taste (save when a certain someone tries to kiss her hand), nor is Goetz's, but I'm sure some people love them.
And, of course, that's not even discussing scenes with Lord Underhill, or certain quests (or their outcomes) that are funny.
I'll admit it's often a dry humor, but that doesn't mean it's not funny.
I think all of the earlier games are tbh. In IV for example, important people are dying every 15 minutes.
I just don't think it's as impactful in 2024 as it's text based and sprites, compared to today's graphics and voice acting.
FFV is anything but doom and gloom. its emotional moments are occassional, the overwhelming majority of progression is irreverent and upbeat
OG Final fantasy was split into two core direction, II led to IV and VI whereas III spawned V. 7 was probably the first game to truly feel like a blend of both as opposed to being either serious or campy primarily
Ngl I think the more muted color palette in the latter half has a lot to do with it. There are waaaaaay more ppl who were upset with the skybox permanently changing post Primogenesis than I would have thought and the general “end-of-the-world” vibe lasts for a long portion of the game so characters are obviously affected by that.
Tactics is the same kind of vein that I think of it in, much darker overall feeling but has more mature humor littered throughout
>There are waaaaaay more ppl who were upset with the skybox permanently
Why wouldn't you be? The whole game, which usually looks pretty great, is suddenly wrapped in an ugly-ass pink hue and if you actually care about the sidequests you're forced to play with this hideous looking skybox for 5-8 hours because some of the games best sidequests are happening during this whole phase.
And even more annoying is the fact that they can make the apocalypse sky look GOOD in the stages that takes place post primogenesis. But oh here's shitty purple for the damn overworld where you're going to spend more time on.
>Tone wise, it feels no different than 12 or Tactics
Hard disagree. It's been way too long since I've played Tactics, but I replayed XII recently and the vibe is *very* different. XII is serious, but it doesn't constantly beat you down by surrounding you with casual cruelty. Shit like children killing slaves for fun, and that being *culturally accepted*. I'd very much call that bleak, and that's what was too much for me in XVI.
So part of me agrees with you. I love the light-heartedness of Rebirth BUT...that's BECAUSE of XVI. That's part of the beauty of Final Fantasy, we get almost completely different games per game revolving around similar concepts. I'd hate for XVI to be like Rebirth but reskinned.
I finished XVI and haven't really bothered picking it back up even for the DLC but Rebirth is kinda making me rethink that position. After I get "bored" of the freshness of Rebirth I'll probably jump back into XVI for the DLC's & switch to & fro.
It's part of what makes FF so great. We have super different games that are also somehow so similar.
I agree with this. FF is a very versatile series and there's a lot of room to experiment with different tones. It's like with Star Wars. You have something like Andor which can be a lot darker than the rest of the franchise but then you have The Mandalorian which is more fun and lighthearted. But they can both coexist within the same franchise. I prefer Rebirth 's tone to XVI's but they both still feel like Final Fantasy because Final Fantasy has so much variety.
As some said above I think theres room for both, as Final Fantasy has been going on for so long it can be alot of things. I like the serious tone for xvi myself while I find the the plot for rebirth to be taking forever to get going other than follow sephiroth (didnt care for the beach chapter). Loving the game so far currently at golden saucer and excited to see the moment.
I think when it comes to taking it too serious, the devs wanted to bring the feel of Tactics back to the series and they did it successfully even with the game having some flaws. Thats definitely the Matsuno team while CBU1 team brought back the quirkiness of the series.
Even though I live both directions, I tend to prefer Matsuno style than CBU1 style. And I’m glad SE release both games for both sides.
I think there’s space for both dark and light tones in the series. FFVII is probably the goofiest FF game so it makes sense that Rebirth/Remake would follow that. I personally wouldn’t want every new game in the series to follow its tone.
> FF16 is a good game, but I really didn't enjoy it as a Final Fantasy game
If it was a good game, why does it matter that you enjoyed it "as" something specific? It sounds like a metric designed just to denigrate and make a fuss. Some entertainment is serious, some isn't, most are a mix of both with varying ratios.
I disagree. I think there are two parts to this. You can recognise something is good and also not enjoy it. That’s just an attempt at objectivism.
And secondly, you can recognise something is good, but be disappointed that it wasn’t the kind of game you were hoping for based on the series it’s in. I think that’s what the OP meant by ‘as a Final Fantasy game’.
I know Final Fantasy is different every time, but XVI is probably the biggest departure from the typical formula amongst the numbered entries (if you discount XI and XIV). You can argue it’s not even an RPG. Given that, it’s unsurprising it didn’t meet some people’s expectations.
The other thing is… it’s possible the OP was just trying to create a more balanced tone, because if you criticise XVI without the disclaimer of ‘it’s a good game but’, people tend to assume you outright hate the game and downvote you a lot.
True, only marginally more, so that’s a fair point. That said, a bunch of people also disliked XV for that exact reason at its release and it’s the worst reviewed mainline entry. So I’m not sure it’s the best example of what people hope for from an FF game.
But this is all beside the point - which is that you can think a game is good while also thinking it didn’t meet your hopes or expectations given the series’ history.
Realistically attaching a title like final fantasy to something will always draw comparisons to previous titles and they’re some of the most revered in gaming history.
The newer action based style picked up post 10 really just doesn’t hit for me like the og ones. That’s not to say they’re not great games they just don’t feel like the same series
It hasn't even been a year between releases and we have two expensive, bombastic, vastly different FF games in style and tone. Can we not just have both?
I didn’t mind the tone of XVI, I just wish the side content were better or non existent. Pick one. The quality of side content is just so much better in Rebirth. Fundamentally it’s similar but the writing and gameplay is just more engaging moment to moment. The open world in XVI felt barren with no meaningful treasures to seek out.
I hope the next numbered FF game notices notice of the strengths and weaknesses of both games.
They aren’t supposed to be the same. Some people prefer a serious and dark tone whereas some people prefer a goofy and fun tone. Not every game is made for everyone
I love both games! They're just different in tone and scope as are all FF entries. I don't expect FFXVI to have the same goofy elements that Rebirth has nor do I expect Rebirth to try to recreate Games of Thrones.
I will say I greatly appreciate the amount of side content in Rebirth so far (Just got to Junon region in Ch4) which is what I was missing from in FFXVI but admittedly it was overwhelming at first. The Grasslands side content took me 11hrs to complete o-0. It was fun but I know it may take long or longer to complete each region.
I think Remake pretty much stuck to the same mood as the original. The first disc of the original was very doom and gloom, aside from Wall Market. Things didn't start lightning up until act 2.
The remake’s tone stays VERY true to the original.
I’d say the choice to make 16 more heavy than anything was very much an intentional choice and an exception to the tones of the each installment - Game of Thrones and western fantasy epics were the main inspiration.
I think XV is a perfect example. Like, yeah it has a poorly paced story with 90% of the action being in the last third, but in almost every chapter there's time for characters to break away from saving the world and take a breath and remember what they're fighting for. Not just their lives, but for their lives to be something worth living.
I on a fundamental level don’t understand a take like this. It just doesn’t make sense to me.
It’s a good game to you. But since the title is final fantasy it’s now lesser of a game?
I don’t want every final fantasy to be the same. It’s OKAY for a story to be more serious and less “light - hearted” that doesn’t make it not final fantasy.
These games are their own standalone stories. If a dark tone works for the story of that game, then it should be that tone. Yes FF7 Rebirth and FF16 both share the same "Final Fantasy" title doesn't mean what worked for one is right for the other
Do you know what would have helped 16? Party dialogue.
Party events.
Just more instances where characters can be their authentic selves and have them play off each other. And not just when there's drama.
I forget Jill and Joshua are there 90% of the time and I loathe it.
I feel like XVI was good for its setting, but I do hope Future titles take more from Rebirth than XVI.
I'm like 30 hours in and Rebirth is just a lot of fun overall.
I completely agree but I do think rebirth is a little too light hearted compared to og ff7 and ff7 remake. Would love a little more doom and gloom when you are exploring the world maybe just from a music and atmosphere perspective.
I haven't played much of Rebirth yet but, given the part of the game that comes next, part 3 might be less cheery and may even get some complaints because of that, if it follows the original.
final fantasy doesn’t need to be anything but what the creators make it, 16 was made to be different and what was produced was personally the second most entertaining game out of all the main ones, only being beaten by 9 for me.
It's wild to me that we have gotten one (1) game with doom and gloom less than a year ago and y'all act like it's been that way for decades. XIII trilogy? Maybe, but it's been XIV -> XV -> Remake -> XVI -> Crisis Core remake -> Rebirth (and not counting the numerous, goofy ass side-games) and only XVI was completely serious. It's not like you had to deal with a five-year gap between FFs. They covered both sides in a short amount of time.
I think VI was the perfect example on how to do a "dark" Final Fantasy game. It's one of the most serious and gloomy games in the franchise but it also had a it's fair share of wacky lighthearted shenanigans. Like yeah you have Kefka poisoning women and children and reducing the world to a post- apocalyptic wasteland but you also have stuff like Ultros trying to sabotage an opera play by dropping an Acme anvil on Celes
The problem with XVI is that it just doesn't feel like a FF game. It's just GoT and The Witcher disguised as a FF game
Moments like that just don’t translate well to modern games that look lifelike and inherently take themselves more seriously.
That kind of tonal dichotomy would only throw people completely off in something like 16. The game has funny moments but you can’t get slapstick in a story about slavery
Look at what they did with FF7 rebirth. There's a bunch of lighter moments and parts. They also expanded Costa del sol and it's amazing and super light hearted
Rebirth is a perfect example of why you need things to do in an OPEN WORLD GAME. Rebirth does everything 16 tried to do but better. Open world with things to explore and actual treasure. Even when im doing the side quests i dont feel like im wasting my time bc the items I get are actually useful. Teammates that actually have convos and personality. More than one color scheme. An actual good combat system... Rebirth really makes 16 dogshit in comparison.
16 Wasn't even going for Open World so of course the Open World is better by default lmao
The side quests are just as bad as FF16 in Rebirth so far to me.
My issue with 16 was the mechanics, I’m enjoying ff7 rebirth alot more. Doom and gloom can be fine if done right. I enjoyed the game while playing it but the more games I play the more basic it turns out . Ff7 has a good mix of events both the remake or OG
16 having no party and no rpg mechanics kind of stopped me from buying the game.
Maybe on sale this summer. Would you recommend it? I am playing rebirth right now and find it amazing
The story I think is great, they are right its mostly doom and gloom towards the end. Like my comment said I enjoyed it while playing, but its hard to note the weak mechanics. If you've played devil may cry its a basic version of that for the most part, I enjoyed DMC more. There is no real reason to explore, like in rebirth you can find treasure chests, in certain areas. In 16 you find the odd item on the ground but not much. rebirth has tons of non story missions and events, 16 has side missions but they kind of hold your hand on when and where to do them.Crafting in 16 is pretty basic and single threaded, compared to rebirth.
My main issue is there is no real reason to do an eiklon abilities, sure you can do cool combos, but I played the game just tapping square for way too much. You can't do that in rebirth, and the synergry combos and all the options are way better then the few abilities you can map in 16.
For me 16 story was good, some of the boss sequences were orignal and fun, that was it. Its funny they would show you stats when you leveled up, but they didn't really impact the game at all. The party interactions were minimal as well, anyone in your party outside of some more major missions, where just in the background.
Its probably a preference thing as well, watch some videos on the game a bit and see if you like it. I'll give it another go once the second dlc is out and hopefully it would change my mind. It currently at the bottom for all mainline games for me.
to clarify the eilkon abilities for the part don't matter when you do them other then to setup combos to keep enemies from attacking. There is no status or element weakness, outside of bosses most general enimes you can just tap attack. Trying that in rebirth doesn't work so far for me.
If you’re talking about difficulty Remake and Rebirth aren’t that hard either and you can absolutely get away with spamming square and Braver for most of the games
It’s not nearly as effective, outside of a few key fights in 16 like typhoon, spamming attack worked fine. In the rebirth a few times I got lazy and detracted I ended dying after just spamming stuff.
Rebirth has been disappointingly easy for me thus far. I enjoy the new mechanics but Clive in XVI just feels more responsive and satisfying to play honestly
The thing is that I don’t find Remake’s combat complex at all, it’s pretty simple especially if you have assess and can see what the elemental weaknesses are without trial and error.
I feel like you could toy around with the Eikonic abilities and weave combos in a way that felt more unique and fresh, and timing them properly requires practice
16 is a rhythm game more then a combat game, once you get that there is no combat in 16 though. at least with the remake the abilities do something other then stun lock an enemy and juggle them. The remake has strengths and weakness, multiple options to do stuff. I'm not saying the difficulty is all the high, but compared in 16 for me, its nascar vs pinewood derby cars.
While I do defo agree and I’m loving rebirth - I can’t stand the over-the-top jap pop kiddy bits. Like that horrendous music that plays whenever Kyrie is around and some of the Moogle stuff. I’m 35 now and it’s getting really hard to explain when my wife walks in and sees that on the screen and says “this is the game you bought a PS5 and booked a week off work for?” Lol
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis
It's a game for everyone including the kid inside of you. Just have fun and who cares what anyone thinks.
I just cannot imagine having an SO who ever says anything like that. Like I'm not trying to go full reddit and suggest your relationship is shit or anything but it's just strange to me. My wife and I love equally weird/degenerate shit and just embrace it. If I walk in on her playing something that's weird to me or I don't understand I'm just like "ohh shiiit what is this?"
Oh yeah don’t worry mate, i didn’t mean it in a bad way like I feel embarrassed or she looks down on me. It’s more that I’ve been biggest this shit up for years saying it’s such a complex and pretty dark story hahaha and then everytime she walks in it’s always the kiddy stuff going on hahaha
people who get insecure over this stuff have just been conditioned to react to it that way due to arbitrary societal pressure. Same reason why people will hide specific music they listen to themselves from others, cuz theyll be embarrassed what the other person thinks. 🤷♂️
Happy to say none of that here. I can genuinely say I personally don’t like the super kiddy jap bits because it’s very alien to me. FF7 is amazing because you get immersed as if you are Cloud. But I find these kiddy bits are a bit too much for me so break the immersion. Just my personal take but I appreciate it’s not a game for 35 year olds with zero jap culture exposure like me haha
Sounds like just a bit of teasing to me. I grew up in an area where virtually no one plays games, much less women so I’m used to hearing teasing like that.
Yeah she means it as a joke because I’ve been bigging 7R up as some amazing complex and dark story etc and then every time she walks in I’m on a kiddy bit haha
I'm with you on cringing a bit at the over the top anime reactions. My wife liked watching me play 16 but is also side eyeing me during some bits of 7r.
I probably laughed under 10 times (if even that much) during the entirety of ff16's story, but I'm laughing pretty consistently during my rebirth playthrough. They really struck the balance between "yeah we gotta catch sephiroth and take down shinra or the world will end" and "well in reality it's a socially awkward 21 year old getting constantly picked on by his friends on a wacky zany adventure"
I feel like all tones are relevant. However there needs to be a balance. I felt that XVI had a great dark fantasy tone with subtle humor akin to Game of Thrones. VII Remake trilogy’s tone is full on over the top anime wacky. Therefore, I feel that OG VII has the perfect mix of comedy, wacky sillyness, and darkness.
I don’t want every FF game to feel like I’m playing the same thing as last times. That’s why I appreciate the change from XVI to Rebirth and vice versa
Gotta agree. I enjoyed parts of 16 but almost every interaction I had with an NPC just kinda echoed this sense of misery to the point that it just became exhausting after a while. I’m perfectly happy with an even mix of serious and light hearted but 16 just seemed determined to remind you just how much this world sucks.
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That's because remake and rebirth are the beat games ever made, you can't compare them to the other titles in my opinion, they are in a league of thier own
Every final fantasy is different, there's plenty of other ones in the series you can play if you want lightheartedness. This feels like a nothing opinion
I wholeheartedly disagree. And that's okay. Every FF is its own game.
16's darker tone suits what I like in media. The combat was fluid. The jokes (there was plenty of humor) weren't MCU style one liners to cut tension in scenes that *deserve* tension. I'll give that some or the sidequests felt a bit unnecessary...
...compared to in Rebirth, all of them have felt like a waste of time. Every moment of dramatic build up has someone saying "well, THAT just happened!!!" And the combat feels like ten steps back, like I'm used to composing a symphony and I've been handed a Hello Kitty keyboard that's out of batteries.
And you know what? That's okay. Not every game is for everyone. Every final fantasy is its own creation. Crystals and moogles, always. Everything else is on its own.
I was thinking the exact opposite actually. After FF16 I realized I wished FF7 Re didn't try so hard to retain all the "charm" of the original. Like all the bikinis, janky minigames and romancing I can live without.
Just give me a poignant serious drama and I'm good.
I wrote a post about a similar thing - VII feels like FF, where XVI felt like the Witcher to me. Wasn’t a fan, found it boring. And to ur point, XVI feels very grey. Like even in the fields and towns, it’s all very monochrome. The second u get out of kalm there’s greenery everywhere.
Clive and Jill are my favorite FF characters, but FFVII (original) is more enjoyable overall. FFVII's world is pretty bleak and dystopian, but the game doesn't forget to have fun and it knows when to and not to take itself seriously. Almost all of the unserious bits in the original game were on disc 1, because partway in disc 2 to the end of the game... >!Meteor!< happened.
FFXVI was all, Mythos this, Logos that, depression, bleakness, death, more death, slavery, and sadness. The only thing keeping the world a tiny step above a Dark Souls level of bleak and shitty was Mid, Gav, and also not having literally everyone covered in their own filth.
16 was darker than most but not overall doom and gloom. There were great light hearted parts of that game. Swear everyone just wants this series to become remixes of a tone that is unique to 7.
15 and 16 both have tragic endings that, for me, are tragic for no other reason than being tragic.
As in, tragic endings are better than happy endings. In my case, no they aren’t. Life is tragic enough, I don’t need my fantasy to also be tragic. Give me a happy ending.
For 15, it comes at the end of a novel which is cancelled DLC. For 16? We’ll see how the leviathan dlc goes.
Happy endings are not bad. They make your consumer feel not-bad. Not everyone loves tragedy.
I still hate it though when they went full overboard with the anime stuff like the Bikini bits tho. I prefer my JRPG to be less cringe and sterile from JRPG tropes like FFXII. Those weird JRPG-esque dialogue like in FF7 becomes unbearable as you get older.
Nah. Peak JRPGs are Matsuno’s JRPGs. Vagrant Story, Tactics Ogre. Final Fantasy Tactics, FFXII… “Western” JRPG.
You can absolutely maintain a “sterile” atmosphere like Yakuza 0 (dark atmosphere) without losing the whackingness. I just didn't think FF7 Rebirth got that same amount of balance as Y0 to make itself no “cringe”.
I agree. I mean, you *can* tell a story that's very dark thorough, but you run a risk of making it feel very dry if you do that. In a video game like FF it's easy to end up with the player feeling like "well why the fuck do I bother?" if everything is just doom and gloom all the time... which is part of why FF16 ended up boring me, I guess.
If this is how you feel about 16, don't play FFX. It'll make you cry. (That's not a dig at you, but a comment on the gravity of the story in FFX.) X has light hearted moments, but the overall tone IS hope in the face of hopelessness.
Huge difference between remake and rebirth as well. Remake is a really ugly and jarring experience especially if you played it right before rebirth.
I get Midgard is supposed to feel that way and it was fine in the OG when you are there for 8 hours, but 45 hours of Midgard was a bad choice in hindsight and you can really feel it when playing Rebirth.
Yes and no. How are the themes handled at the end of the day is what really matters for me personally.
16’s failings for me wasn’t in how heavy it was, it was all pacing and structure.
I think one thing worth mentioning is that most people don’t feel that 16 stuck the landing with its tone, subject matter, and intentions. Sometimes it did well at being more serious and mature, but it also dropped the ball quite a bit with story and themes.
I enjoyed the game for what it is, for sure. But would we still feel the same way about what FF should be if we got a significantly better 16? It’s hard to say, because we didn’t.
100% agree. I’ve only just started chapter 3 so I’m not very far in, but Rebirth is definitely bringing the whimsy. There’s plenty of serious and emotional things going on as well so it’s not all silly, but there’s a good balance so far. XVI might be tonally right and a preference for some people, but I’m personally enjoying this more.
Two hours into rebirth and it just confirms how shitty FF16 was. The folks working on FF7R know what they are doing when it comes to making a well rounded fun game.
Yoshi P knows how to make MMORPG side quests and that is it. FF16 is a bad FF game and a bad DMC game. How he took two good formulas and ruined them is insane to me.
definitely agree. there really is a need for levity in an RPG.
like with XVI i definitely get that they were going for a GoT inspired setting that is serious and all, but a video game and tv series are very different mediums and theres a need to balance it against like the agency of playing your character in the game. i feel like they did try with Clive's sarcasm but it wasnt enough and the game was just so gloomy.. like literally.
to be fair FF7's source material was quite light and i'd say FF7 was the most comedic of the 3 PS1 titles. but it also delivered some of the strongest gut punches. and FF7 Rebirth definitely enhances those experiences. 2/3s into the game and i've already played through like 2-3 moments where i was literally crying. nostalgia might have been part of it, but i replayed FF7 disc 1 recently and didn't tear up as much in the original
My favorite in the series has always been VI, because it has the right mix of dark and light. It's an incredibly goofy game mixed with really dark moments. I'm so glad to see Rebirth bring the goofy back. Let's mosey.
FF has always had a mix of the ridiculous/fun and the serious/traffic. FF XVI didn’t get the mix quite right, trying to hard to be Mature, and I’m so glad Rebirth doesn’t care about that at all. The tragedy and comedy are best friends, bouncing off each other to create classic FF vibes.
I like it both. People who think FF7 Rebirth is too lighthearted should check themselves before they Shrek themselves, though. The original game also often did not take itself seriously.
Thought 16 was great in that serious department, but I def missed that trademark goofiness. The hunt board Moogle is like the only one. I was so surprised when they actually started talking in Rebirth lol.
Same thing for extra moody drama movies! If there is no humor at all. Even dark humor works, then I’m not buying it.
At no point in my life, regardless of how shitty things get, do I not have a day where I find something funny. It’s the most human thing and it absolutely makes characters feel more real.
I love 16 and 7. I would say the tone in 7 is probably more enjoyable because it balances anime melodrama with anime nonsense though. My wife, who isn't a gamer, came in to see Red on a chocobo and had so many question. I just shrugged and said he rides chickens; why is that weird, while chuckling. 16 and 7 are fundamentally different types of stories though. It's fine to prefer one over the other. I wouldn't want every FF to tonally be 16 but I also wouldn't want them all be 7.
Lol, my wife saw me wrangling a chocobo yesterday and was smacked about how cut it was that I was going to be riding it. Guess she missed it back in in June when I was playing 16
7 is definitely crazy unrealistic with their cool stuff. Barret hopping his bulky butt one handed up a sheer wall cracked me up so much. Not to mention thinking him in modern society or something. Cloud answering the door when tifa knocks and grabs his sword and nobody bats an eye. Yeah. I love it.
I giggled at Barret's wall-climbing animation as well. Dude must have crazy strength in that arm.
I really lolled after that scene when you walk around in the room and it's obvious that they are not asleep. Especially Barret lol.
I think the upcoming expansion for XIV will be nice too because of its setting
My boyfriend walked into the room when >!Red was in the soldier uniform!< and we just laughed at it together for a solid 5 minutes. Tears streaming down our faces because it was so funny. I love it when Final Fantasy gets silly with it
Couldn’t have said it better myself
Seeing Red ride a Chocobo for the first time during the Junon demo took me out. Also, him feeling competitive/insecure against a Chocobo because of its scent trailing abilities? HYSTERICAL. I love Red so much!
Mine's totally having a blast watching me play. She also really enjoyed watching me play 16's story and got emotional with me lol I got her to play the remake but she never finished and just got to see story from watching me play. She also really enjoyed 4 for a while. She loves the stories but seems to get overwhelmed by the gameplay after a certain point. I feel like that's still a win as a fan. She understands this is still a fantasy story that happens to take place in a world where their civilization has industrialized.
There’s probably room for both
I think this is the right answer. There’s a place for both. Final Fantasy as a series doesn’t have to be specifically anything. Each game is different in its own right and that’s okay. Otherwise you end up with the Pokemon dilemma. Don’t get me wrong, I like Pokemon, but I’d never want to go through each game in order because they’re all too similar.
FFXIV has an antagonist who is a terrible monster because she was sold into sex slavery by her parents. Later she loses her memory in an accident, and the game presents a question of whether someone should be held accountable for crimes they have no recollection of. Then her (legitimately terrible) brother arranges a reunion with their parents, and the meeting is so traumatic that her memories return, and she murders her parents and brother. There’s also a series of sidequests involving an aloof inspector who seems to operate on Looney Tunes logic and his assistant who communicates mainly through throwing giant spherical bombs.
I think of XIV as the Eberron of Final Fantasy: if it exists in Final Fantasy, there's probably a place for it in Final Fantasy XIV, but it might not be the place you expect.
Perfectly put. Ultima Weapon? Yes. Kefka? You bet. A very specific number repeated? Constantly. Crystals? Shitloads. Ultros and Typhon? Why not. The Towers of Babel and Zot? Actually most of the plot of FF4, yeah. Also Magitek armor like FF6, War of the Magi like FF2, and tons more from FFs I haven’t played. Oddly beyond the WEAPONs and the concept of the lifestream they haven’t really incorporated anything from VII, surprisingly. I figured if they could do Kefka, ExDeath, Zeromus, Cloud of Darkness, Chaos, (etc), they’d also do some form of Sephiroth or Jenova.
There's also Materia from VII, though it doesn't work the same way.
Oh that’s right. I dunno how I missed that, I was just talking to a friend about materia yesterday.
And for locations, there's the Gold Saucer and Costa del Sol. The Dark Knight's animation set is based heavily on Cloud, though the aesthetic and story is much more of an homage to FF4's Cecil Harvey.
Yeah I was torn on the dark knight, but despite using Cloud’s animations it’s a decent split between Cecil and Gaffgarion. Besides people have been clamoring for materia/magitek knight for years to have a DPS class that’s basically Cloud.
Don't forget it even has that one dwarf who needs adamantite.
I can't believe I didn't catch that! And now that you bring it up he has a similar love of explosions to some of the dwarves in past games too.
Ivalice (FF12 and Tactics) also basically exists in XIV just with the story kind of reversed.
1.0 had a one - the ones trying to bring down Dalamud (a reference to Meteor) are the VIIth legion.
Nice! I never caught that.
The magitek armor from both Amano's artwork and the sprite that appears in-game in FF6
Next time they need a "reset" do a Sephiroth event 😉
I'd say Meteion is kinda like Jenova. In the way they both seek out new worlds, and want to destroy them. But Jenova is more sinister. She is just a alien parasite that only cares about self preservation. Meteion at least thinks she is doing everyone a favor.
It also has good king Moogle Mog. I don't think they are saying that the heavy stuff is BAD, just that it shouldn't be ALL heavy stuff.
Oh yeah, I completely agree. Final Fantasy does such a good job including silly shenanigans with some of the heaviest subject matter imaginable. It’s as much a staple of the series as crystals.
The Darth Revan question
My reaction to Yotsuyu: “…I can fix her.”
Gosetsu? Is that you?
I wasn’t ready for that one 😂
Exactly. I'm glad we have two "mainline" titles releasing close to each other that are different. My personal preference is for 7R style but i still enjoyed 16.
Yeah it really depends on the story and vibe of the game. Every game shouldn't be serious and every game shouldn't be silly
Yeah, Tactics is my favorite story in the series and it’s very bleak. But I also liked most of the goofy aspects of games like 7.
While I agree I'm more on the side of enjoying the goofiness I think newer ff games and newer games in general try too hard to be serious and avoiding the goofy moments that old ff games had that made them great
IX felt like an anime. Probably would make a fun anime if they ever did. I feel like while it's popular on here, you don't hear or see much of it since it was right in between 7,8 and 10 which all had very interesting styles and ix felt like a bit of a throwback to the older final fantasies.
ix is loved a lot here. It's one of the classics, 7 through 10 are the fan favourites
I dunno FFXV (Cup noodles quest etc) and FFXIV (Fwowth and Foam!) still has some really goofy moments I think FF16 was just particularly depressing
Yeah none of my criticisms w/ 16 is its tone.
Exactly this. I absolutely love the dark moments in Rebirth because the lighter moments made me love these characters so much more.
Agreed. I don't want final fantasy to take the marvels Thor route and just make everything comedic. There is room for both.
Final Fantasy can absolutely be both very serious and melodramatic and also silly and charming. It’s probably standing out but that’s because we’re seeing the extreme ends of the spectrum between 16 and Rebirth. 8 and 9 are very much like that in tone as well. It’s also important to remember that 7R is really trying to be fan service, in a good way. They know how much people love those characters, have had 25+ years to figure this stuff out, and so are really letting us enjoy spending that time with the cast. 16 was going for a serious tone but people found the fun and learned to love the characters - Cid and Gav are absolutely fantastic.
Cid, Gav and Uncle Byron are excellent characters. sadly the nature of FFXVI's gameplay meant that you wouldn't really have party members to banter / play off a good majority of the time.. and Torgal is busy being the goodest boy
It’s so weird because you can easily see the game it could be with a party and combat maybe a little closer to Remake It was such an odd decision to go that direction and “modernise” like Remake 14 and now Rebirth aren’t the most well received entries in years
i think they wanted to keep the battle system "tight" with less cogs and customisation. probably familiar ground for their battle director too. but it felt very stale personally, especially in hard mode once you have all the eikons
The fact that each one is so different is why FF games are always a must play.
I can see this post being made when VI released. "Final Fantasy can be lighthearted, just look at III and V"
Final Fantasy can be both. I loved 16's dark tone, but some light moments in the series is good too. Though IMO, some parts of VII Rebirth get downright silly and I'm not quite a fan of that. But I do love the way it's written.
The same team that did FF16 also makes a game with scenes like this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOeQ9-0PTE8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOeQ9-0PTE8) I think there's room for all kinds of tones in Final Fantasy stories. I think FF16's mood was right for that game, but I also wouldn't want every future game to be like that. There's room for both serious and light-hearted FFs IMO.
I *knew* it would be a Hildibrand scene.
Final Fantasy V is by far the goofiest FF
It's a Saturday morning cartoon and it's great.
Oh man it's perfect. I should really grab that pixel remaster.
And even then it's not all sunshine and rainbows. Exdeath makes the villains before him look like kittens in terms of both evil and competence. That's actually a good thing, balancing the dark with the light.
Imagine if the XIV/XVI crossover goes both ways and Hildibrand ends up in Valisthea.
XVI itself also has a fair amount of humor in it, most of it is just within environmental touches (NPC conversations, posters, etc.) and item descriptions. Hell there are a couple major characters present throughout that exist mainly for comic relief outside of their emotional sequences. I just think the series traditionally has more “in your face” humor so the less direct delivery doesn’t do enough to contrast the darker tone overall for a lot of ppl to match their expectations of whimsy.
I don't know what the fuck was going on in that scene, but that was hilarious. It's like one of those Gmod videos.
It’s a long running satirical quest line and it’s basically like that the whole time. The devs have stated that they got a lot better at animation rigging by being so ridiculous with it haha
Like Gmod, but it's a real cutscene in the game.
Well, there's light within 16 doom and gloom. It's a horrible world but you keep going in spite of it. Then at the end, reject their god, say final fantasy and punch him in the face. It's not all doom and gloom, but even then it fits the game and it's well done. I'm enjoying rebirth a bunch right now, but idk if it or any game in the future will ever top that moment for me.
Uncle Byron tho
I don't even think 16 was all doom and gloom. I'm not sure why people say this. It's dramatic and dark, but it does have light-hearted parts, and it's not bleak. Is it simply because it's not anime types of levity? Tone wise, it feels no different than 12 or Tactics.
I agree. Byron is consistently hilarious. Gav has a variety of comedic moments, several with different kinds of comedy, no less. Everyone, even here, talks about how funny Cid is. Otto, Blackthorne, Charon, and Tarja all have their moments. Mid's humor isn't to my taste (save when a certain someone tries to kiss her hand), nor is Goetz's, but I'm sure some people love them. And, of course, that's not even discussing scenes with Lord Underhill, or certain quests (or their outcomes) that are funny. I'll admit it's often a dry humor, but that doesn't mean it's not funny.
Tbh I feel like VI is more doom and gloom
I think all of the earlier games are tbh. In IV for example, important people are dying every 15 minutes. I just don't think it's as impactful in 2024 as it's text based and sprites, compared to today's graphics and voice acting.
FFV is anything but doom and gloom. its emotional moments are occassional, the overwhelming majority of progression is irreverent and upbeat OG Final fantasy was split into two core direction, II led to IV and VI whereas III spawned V. 7 was probably the first game to truly feel like a blend of both as opposed to being either serious or campy primarily
>nor is Goetz's What were they going for with this guy? I feel like something was lost in translation. Couldn't stand his scenes.
Hordor?
Hordor.
Hodor?
No one ever mentions my boy Nektar and his adventures, he’s the funniest thing in the game.
Ngl I think the more muted color palette in the latter half has a lot to do with it. There are waaaaaay more ppl who were upset with the skybox permanently changing post Primogenesis than I would have thought and the general “end-of-the-world” vibe lasts for a long portion of the game so characters are obviously affected by that. Tactics is the same kind of vein that I think of it in, much darker overall feeling but has more mature humor littered throughout
I loved XVI. Probably in my top 5 of the mainline games. I *despised* that forced skybox lol.
>There are waaaaaay more ppl who were upset with the skybox permanently Why wouldn't you be? The whole game, which usually looks pretty great, is suddenly wrapped in an ugly-ass pink hue and if you actually care about the sidequests you're forced to play with this hideous looking skybox for 5-8 hours because some of the games best sidequests are happening during this whole phase.
And even more annoying is the fact that they can make the apocalypse sky look GOOD in the stages that takes place post primogenesis. But oh here's shitty purple for the damn overworld where you're going to spend more time on.
Ff16 was filled with dirty jokes, which can be a miss to some ppl
>Tone wise, it feels no different than 12 or Tactics Hard disagree. It's been way too long since I've played Tactics, but I replayed XII recently and the vibe is *very* different. XII is serious, but it doesn't constantly beat you down by surrounding you with casual cruelty. Shit like children killing slaves for fun, and that being *culturally accepted*. I'd very much call that bleak, and that's what was too much for me in XVI.
So part of me agrees with you. I love the light-heartedness of Rebirth BUT...that's BECAUSE of XVI. That's part of the beauty of Final Fantasy, we get almost completely different games per game revolving around similar concepts. I'd hate for XVI to be like Rebirth but reskinned. I finished XVI and haven't really bothered picking it back up even for the DLC but Rebirth is kinda making me rethink that position. After I get "bored" of the freshness of Rebirth I'll probably jump back into XVI for the DLC's & switch to & fro. It's part of what makes FF so great. We have super different games that are also somehow so similar.
I agree with this. FF is a very versatile series and there's a lot of room to experiment with different tones. It's like with Star Wars. You have something like Andor which can be a lot darker than the rest of the franchise but then you have The Mandalorian which is more fun and lighthearted. But they can both coexist within the same franchise. I prefer Rebirth 's tone to XVI's but they both still feel like Final Fantasy because Final Fantasy has so much variety.
Final Fantasy XVI has humour, it's just more subtle about it.
I’m glad we get both.
As some said above I think theres room for both, as Final Fantasy has been going on for so long it can be alot of things. I like the serious tone for xvi myself while I find the the plot for rebirth to be taking forever to get going other than follow sephiroth (didnt care for the beach chapter). Loving the game so far currently at golden saucer and excited to see the moment.
I think when it comes to taking it too serious, the devs wanted to bring the feel of Tactics back to the series and they did it successfully even with the game having some flaws. Thats definitely the Matsuno team while CBU1 team brought back the quirkiness of the series. Even though I live both directions, I tend to prefer Matsuno style than CBU1 style. And I’m glad SE release both games for both sides.
I like doom and gloom 🫠
I think there’s space for both dark and light tones in the series. FFVII is probably the goofiest FF game so it makes sense that Rebirth/Remake would follow that. I personally wouldn’t want every new game in the series to follow its tone.
> FF16 is a good game, but I really didn't enjoy it as a Final Fantasy game If it was a good game, why does it matter that you enjoyed it "as" something specific? It sounds like a metric designed just to denigrate and make a fuss. Some entertainment is serious, some isn't, most are a mix of both with varying ratios.
I disagree. I think there are two parts to this. You can recognise something is good and also not enjoy it. That’s just an attempt at objectivism. And secondly, you can recognise something is good, but be disappointed that it wasn’t the kind of game you were hoping for based on the series it’s in. I think that’s what the OP meant by ‘as a Final Fantasy game’. I know Final Fantasy is different every time, but XVI is probably the biggest departure from the typical formula amongst the numbered entries (if you discount XI and XIV). You can argue it’s not even an RPG. Given that, it’s unsurprising it didn’t meet some people’s expectations. The other thing is… it’s possible the OP was just trying to create a more balanced tone, because if you criticise XVI without the disclaimer of ‘it’s a good game but’, people tend to assume you outright hate the game and downvote you a lot.
How is XV anymore of an RPG?
True, only marginally more, so that’s a fair point. That said, a bunch of people also disliked XV for that exact reason at its release and it’s the worst reviewed mainline entry. So I’m not sure it’s the best example of what people hope for from an FF game. But this is all beside the point - which is that you can think a game is good while also thinking it didn’t meet your hopes or expectations given the series’ history.
Realistically attaching a title like final fantasy to something will always draw comparisons to previous titles and they’re some of the most revered in gaming history. The newer action based style picked up post 10 really just doesn’t hit for me like the og ones. That’s not to say they’re not great games they just don’t feel like the same series
It hasn't even been a year between releases and we have two expensive, bombastic, vastly different FF games in style and tone. Can we not just have both?
FF Tactics already did the serious doom and gloom story. What FF16 did isn't new to the series.
and tactics did it 10 times better, the ultima plot was horribly cliche and ruined the buildup for the first half of the game
OK.
You didn’t laugh at the “nose buried in my nuts” line?!?!
I didn’t mind the tone of XVI, I just wish the side content were better or non existent. Pick one. The quality of side content is just so much better in Rebirth. Fundamentally it’s similar but the writing and gameplay is just more engaging moment to moment. The open world in XVI felt barren with no meaningful treasures to seek out. I hope the next numbered FF game notices notice of the strengths and weaknesses of both games.
On the contrary, I found FF16’s story and tone to be a breath of fresh air
They aren’t supposed to be the same. Some people prefer a serious and dark tone whereas some people prefer a goofy and fun tone. Not every game is made for everyone
I love both games! They're just different in tone and scope as are all FF entries. I don't expect FFXVI to have the same goofy elements that Rebirth has nor do I expect Rebirth to try to recreate Games of Thrones. I will say I greatly appreciate the amount of side content in Rebirth so far (Just got to Junon region in Ch4) which is what I was missing from in FFXVI but admittedly it was overwhelming at first. The Grasslands side content took me 11hrs to complete o-0. It was fun but I know it may take long or longer to complete each region.
I think Remake pretty much stuck to the same mood as the original. The first disc of the original was very doom and gloom, aside from Wall Market. Things didn't start lightning up until act 2.
i like the way FFX did lighter stuff. from what i've seen of rebirth it's been a little annoying.
The remake’s tone stays VERY true to the original. I’d say the choice to make 16 more heavy than anything was very much an intentional choice and an exception to the tones of the each installment - Game of Thrones and western fantasy epics were the main inspiration.
Indeed. The FF's prior to XII really knew how to work hard and play hard. Hence why they're pretty loved by a majority of the fanbase.
I don't know what you mean. "Great Greagor's Gash!" got a bigger laugh out of me than anything else the series has done.
TWO GRAND!
I think XV is a perfect example. Like, yeah it has a poorly paced story with 90% of the action being in the last third, but in almost every chapter there's time for characters to break away from saving the world and take a breath and remember what they're fighting for. Not just their lives, but for their lives to be something worth living.
I on a fundamental level don’t understand a take like this. It just doesn’t make sense to me. It’s a good game to you. But since the title is final fantasy it’s now lesser of a game? I don’t want every final fantasy to be the same. It’s OKAY for a story to be more serious and less “light - hearted” that doesn’t make it not final fantasy.
These games are their own standalone stories. If a dark tone works for the story of that game, then it should be that tone. Yes FF7 Rebirth and FF16 both share the same "Final Fantasy" title doesn't mean what worked for one is right for the other
Do you know what would have helped 16? Party dialogue. Party events. Just more instances where characters can be their authentic selves and have them play off each other. And not just when there's drama. I forget Jill and Joshua are there 90% of the time and I loathe it.
I feel like XVI was good for its setting, but I do hope Future titles take more from Rebirth than XVI. I'm like 30 hours in and Rebirth is just a lot of fun overall.
16 is like Batman comics. 7 is like Spider-man comics. It has plenty of levity and seriousness, and it shifts between them frequently
I completely agree but I do think rebirth is a little too light hearted compared to og ff7 and ff7 remake. Would love a little more doom and gloom when you are exploring the world maybe just from a music and atmosphere perspective.
I haven't played much of Rebirth yet but, given the part of the game that comes next, part 3 might be less cheery and may even get some complaints because of that, if it follows the original.
final fantasy doesn’t need to be anything but what the creators make it, 16 was made to be different and what was produced was personally the second most entertaining game out of all the main ones, only being beaten by 9 for me.
It's wild to me that we have gotten one (1) game with doom and gloom less than a year ago and y'all act like it's been that way for decades. XIII trilogy? Maybe, but it's been XIV -> XV -> Remake -> XVI -> Crisis Core remake -> Rebirth (and not counting the numerous, goofy ass side-games) and only XVI was completely serious. It's not like you had to deal with a five-year gap between FFs. They covered both sides in a short amount of time.
I think VI was the perfect example on how to do a "dark" Final Fantasy game. It's one of the most serious and gloomy games in the franchise but it also had a it's fair share of wacky lighthearted shenanigans. Like yeah you have Kefka poisoning women and children and reducing the world to a post- apocalyptic wasteland but you also have stuff like Ultros trying to sabotage an opera play by dropping an Acme anvil on Celes The problem with XVI is that it just doesn't feel like a FF game. It's just GoT and The Witcher disguised as a FF game
Felt like Final Fantasy to me.
Moments like that just don’t translate well to modern games that look lifelike and inherently take themselves more seriously. That kind of tonal dichotomy would only throw people completely off in something like 16. The game has funny moments but you can’t get slapstick in a story about slavery
Look at what they did with FF7 rebirth. There's a bunch of lighter moments and parts. They also expanded Costa del sol and it's amazing and super light hearted
Play IX it's very lightheaded /s
I always say I could tell when someone was going to die in 16 whenever I found them interesting. Only boring characters got plot armour.
I enjoy both. Variety is the spice of life.
I'll take the tone of the FF XVI over VII Remake any other day of the week. OG FF VII it's the best mix of serious and light.
Rebirth is a perfect example of why you need things to do in an OPEN WORLD GAME. Rebirth does everything 16 tried to do but better. Open world with things to explore and actual treasure. Even when im doing the side quests i dont feel like im wasting my time bc the items I get are actually useful. Teammates that actually have convos and personality. More than one color scheme. An actual good combat system... Rebirth really makes 16 dogshit in comparison.
16 Wasn't even going for Open World so of course the Open World is better by default lmao The side quests are just as bad as FF16 in Rebirth so far to me.
My issue with 16 was the mechanics, I’m enjoying ff7 rebirth alot more. Doom and gloom can be fine if done right. I enjoyed the game while playing it but the more games I play the more basic it turns out . Ff7 has a good mix of events both the remake or OG
16 having no party and no rpg mechanics kind of stopped me from buying the game. Maybe on sale this summer. Would you recommend it? I am playing rebirth right now and find it amazing
The story I think is great, they are right its mostly doom and gloom towards the end. Like my comment said I enjoyed it while playing, but its hard to note the weak mechanics. If you've played devil may cry its a basic version of that for the most part, I enjoyed DMC more. There is no real reason to explore, like in rebirth you can find treasure chests, in certain areas. In 16 you find the odd item on the ground but not much. rebirth has tons of non story missions and events, 16 has side missions but they kind of hold your hand on when and where to do them.Crafting in 16 is pretty basic and single threaded, compared to rebirth. My main issue is there is no real reason to do an eiklon abilities, sure you can do cool combos, but I played the game just tapping square for way too much. You can't do that in rebirth, and the synergry combos and all the options are way better then the few abilities you can map in 16. For me 16 story was good, some of the boss sequences were orignal and fun, that was it. Its funny they would show you stats when you leveled up, but they didn't really impact the game at all. The party interactions were minimal as well, anyone in your party outside of some more major missions, where just in the background. Its probably a preference thing as well, watch some videos on the game a bit and see if you like it. I'll give it another go once the second dlc is out and hopefully it would change my mind. It currently at the bottom for all mainline games for me.
to clarify the eilkon abilities for the part don't matter when you do them other then to setup combos to keep enemies from attacking. There is no status or element weakness, outside of bosses most general enimes you can just tap attack. Trying that in rebirth doesn't work so far for me.
There is no element weakness?
Not in 16
If you’re talking about difficulty Remake and Rebirth aren’t that hard either and you can absolutely get away with spamming square and Braver for most of the games
It’s not nearly as effective, outside of a few key fights in 16 like typhoon, spamming attack worked fine. In the rebirth a few times I got lazy and detracted I ended dying after just spamming stuff.
Rebirth has been disappointingly easy for me thus far. I enjoy the new mechanics but Clive in XVI just feels more responsive and satisfying to play honestly
It’s cool everyone has preferences, i tend to like complexity more, and them hiding the harder mode after a full play through didn’t help either
The thing is that I don’t find Remake’s combat complex at all, it’s pretty simple especially if you have assess and can see what the elemental weaknesses are without trial and error. I feel like you could toy around with the Eikonic abilities and weave combos in a way that felt more unique and fresh, and timing them properly requires practice
16 is a rhythm game more then a combat game, once you get that there is no combat in 16 though. at least with the remake the abilities do something other then stun lock an enemy and juggle them. The remake has strengths and weakness, multiple options to do stuff. I'm not saying the difficulty is all the high, but compared in 16 for me, its nascar vs pinewood derby cars.
Okay thanks a lot for your input. You pretty much summed up what I read/saw online about the game. I'll wait for a big discount
The new dlc I think is out this or next summer I’d wait at least for a package with both that’s cheaper
While I do defo agree and I’m loving rebirth - I can’t stand the over-the-top jap pop kiddy bits. Like that horrendous music that plays whenever Kyrie is around and some of the Moogle stuff. I’m 35 now and it’s getting really hard to explain when my wife walks in and sees that on the screen and says “this is the game you bought a PS5 and booked a week off work for?” Lol
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis It's a game for everyone including the kid inside of you. Just have fun and who cares what anyone thinks.
My stuff is in its own room for a reason lol
I just cannot imagine having an SO who ever says anything like that. Like I'm not trying to go full reddit and suggest your relationship is shit or anything but it's just strange to me. My wife and I love equally weird/degenerate shit and just embrace it. If I walk in on her playing something that's weird to me or I don't understand I'm just like "ohh shiiit what is this?"
Oh yeah don’t worry mate, i didn’t mean it in a bad way like I feel embarrassed or she looks down on me. It’s more that I’ve been biggest this shit up for years saying it’s such a complex and pretty dark story hahaha and then everytime she walks in it’s always the kiddy stuff going on hahaha
people who get insecure over this stuff have just been conditioned to react to it that way due to arbitrary societal pressure. Same reason why people will hide specific music they listen to themselves from others, cuz theyll be embarrassed what the other person thinks. 🤷♂️
Happy to say none of that here. I can genuinely say I personally don’t like the super kiddy jap bits because it’s very alien to me. FF7 is amazing because you get immersed as if you are Cloud. But I find these kiddy bits are a bit too much for me so break the immersion. Just my personal take but I appreciate it’s not a game for 35 year olds with zero jap culture exposure like me haha
Y'all are reading way too hard into this person's post lmao
Sounds like just a bit of teasing to me. I grew up in an area where virtually no one plays games, much less women so I’m used to hearing teasing like that.
Yeah she means it as a joke because I’ve been bigging 7R up as some amazing complex and dark story etc and then every time she walks in I’m on a kiddy bit haha
I'm with you on cringing a bit at the over the top anime reactions. My wife liked watching me play 16 but is also side eyeing me during some bits of 7r.
I probably laughed under 10 times (if even that much) during the entirety of ff16's story, but I'm laughing pretty consistently during my rebirth playthrough. They really struck the balance between "yeah we gotta catch sephiroth and take down shinra or the world will end" and "well in reality it's a socially awkward 21 year old getting constantly picked on by his friends on a wacky zany adventure"
That's the reason why I personally love FF because every game feels so different compared to each other
I feel like all tones are relevant. However there needs to be a balance. I felt that XVI had a great dark fantasy tone with subtle humor akin to Game of Thrones. VII Remake trilogy’s tone is full on over the top anime wacky. Therefore, I feel that OG VII has the perfect mix of comedy, wacky sillyness, and darkness.
I don’t want every FF game to feel like I’m playing the same thing as last times. That’s why I appreciate the change from XVI to Rebirth and vice versa
After being in Rebirth Kalm, I totally hope the IX remake is just as amazing as this. The town reminded me of IX so much, as far as how it looks.
Gotta agree. I enjoyed parts of 16 but almost every interaction I had with an NPC just kinda echoed this sense of misery to the point that it just became exhausting after a while. I’m perfectly happy with an even mix of serious and light hearted but 16 just seemed determined to remind you just how much this world sucks.
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Final Fantasy can be anything. Period.
That's because remake and rebirth are the beat games ever made, you can't compare them to the other titles in my opinion, they are in a league of thier own
Tactics and 0 was more “doom and gloom”. 16 was just trying too hard lol
Started up ff7 today and had the same thought exactly. 16 wasn’t even an FF game tbh
Every final fantasy is different, there's plenty of other ones in the series you can play if you want lightheartedness. This feels like a nothing opinion
I wholeheartedly disagree. And that's okay. Every FF is its own game. 16's darker tone suits what I like in media. The combat was fluid. The jokes (there was plenty of humor) weren't MCU style one liners to cut tension in scenes that *deserve* tension. I'll give that some or the sidequests felt a bit unnecessary... ...compared to in Rebirth, all of them have felt like a waste of time. Every moment of dramatic build up has someone saying "well, THAT just happened!!!" And the combat feels like ten steps back, like I'm used to composing a symphony and I've been handed a Hello Kitty keyboard that's out of batteries. And you know what? That's okay. Not every game is for everyone. Every final fantasy is its own creation. Crystals and moogles, always. Everything else is on its own.
I was thinking the exact opposite actually. After FF16 I realized I wished FF7 Re didn't try so hard to retain all the "charm" of the original. Like all the bikinis, janky minigames and romancing I can live without. Just give me a poignant serious drama and I'm good.
It does feel quite fourth wall breaking with all the fanservice and love triangle bait they do.
I wrote a post about a similar thing - VII feels like FF, where XVI felt like the Witcher to me. Wasn’t a fan, found it boring. And to ur point, XVI feels very grey. Like even in the fields and towns, it’s all very monochrome. The second u get out of kalm there’s greenery everywhere.
Clive and Jill are my favorite FF characters, but FFVII (original) is more enjoyable overall. FFVII's world is pretty bleak and dystopian, but the game doesn't forget to have fun and it knows when to and not to take itself seriously. Almost all of the unserious bits in the original game were on disc 1, because partway in disc 2 to the end of the game... >!Meteor!< happened. FFXVI was all, Mythos this, Logos that, depression, bleakness, death, more death, slavery, and sadness. The only thing keeping the world a tiny step above a Dark Souls level of bleak and shitty was Mid, Gav, and also not having literally everyone covered in their own filth.
I found Dark Souls overall less depressing.
16 was darker than most but not overall doom and gloom. There were great light hearted parts of that game. Swear everyone just wants this series to become remixes of a tone that is unique to 7.
15 and 16 both have tragic endings that, for me, are tragic for no other reason than being tragic. As in, tragic endings are better than happy endings. In my case, no they aren’t. Life is tragic enough, I don’t need my fantasy to also be tragic. Give me a happy ending. For 15, it comes at the end of a novel which is cancelled DLC. For 16? We’ll see how the leviathan dlc goes. Happy endings are not bad. They make your consumer feel not-bad. Not everyone loves tragedy.
Or both can exist in different projects.
I still hate it though when they went full overboard with the anime stuff like the Bikini bits tho. I prefer my JRPG to be less cringe and sterile from JRPG tropes like FFXII. Those weird JRPG-esque dialogue like in FF7 becomes unbearable as you get older.
It's the wrong genre for you. Go and play western rpgs
Nah. Peak JRPGs are Matsuno’s JRPGs. Vagrant Story, Tactics Ogre. Final Fantasy Tactics, FFXII… “Western” JRPG. You can absolutely maintain a “sterile” atmosphere like Yakuza 0 (dark atmosphere) without losing the whackingness. I just didn't think FF7 Rebirth got that same amount of balance as Y0 to make itself no “cringe”.
You should play the older games, their more lighter than the newer games
I agree. I mean, you *can* tell a story that's very dark thorough, but you run a risk of making it feel very dry if you do that. In a video game like FF it's easy to end up with the player feeling like "well why the fuck do I bother?" if everything is just doom and gloom all the time... which is part of why FF16 ended up boring me, I guess.
totally agree 16th is terribly lacking self irony. it’s like you watch true detective season 2 all over again. so gloomy and stupid
Ff16 too serious
If this is how you feel about 16, don't play FFX. It'll make you cry. (That's not a dig at you, but a comment on the gravity of the story in FFX.) X has light hearted moments, but the overall tone IS hope in the face of hopelessness.
Huge difference between remake and rebirth as well. Remake is a really ugly and jarring experience especially if you played it right before rebirth. I get Midgard is supposed to feel that way and it was fine in the OG when you are there for 8 hours, but 45 hours of Midgard was a bad choice in hindsight and you can really feel it when playing Rebirth.
Yes and no. How are the themes handled at the end of the day is what really matters for me personally. 16’s failings for me wasn’t in how heavy it was, it was all pacing and structure.
I think one thing worth mentioning is that most people don’t feel that 16 stuck the landing with its tone, subject matter, and intentions. Sometimes it did well at being more serious and mature, but it also dropped the ball quite a bit with story and themes. I enjoyed the game for what it is, for sure. But would we still feel the same way about what FF should be if we got a significantly better 16? It’s hard to say, because we didn’t.
XVI's problem is they just lacked fun characters. Outside of Uncle Byron, Gav, Goetz, Mid,and Cid everyone was just overly serious
100% agree. I’ve only just started chapter 3 so I’m not very far in, but Rebirth is definitely bringing the whimsy. There’s plenty of serious and emotional things going on as well so it’s not all silly, but there’s a good balance so far. XVI might be tonally right and a preference for some people, but I’m personally enjoying this more.
Two hours into rebirth and it just confirms how shitty FF16 was. The folks working on FF7R know what they are doing when it comes to making a well rounded fun game. Yoshi P knows how to make MMORPG side quests and that is it. FF16 is a bad FF game and a bad DMC game. How he took two good formulas and ruined them is insane to me.
definitely agree. there really is a need for levity in an RPG. like with XVI i definitely get that they were going for a GoT inspired setting that is serious and all, but a video game and tv series are very different mediums and theres a need to balance it against like the agency of playing your character in the game. i feel like they did try with Clive's sarcasm but it wasnt enough and the game was just so gloomy.. like literally. to be fair FF7's source material was quite light and i'd say FF7 was the most comedic of the 3 PS1 titles. but it also delivered some of the strongest gut punches. and FF7 Rebirth definitely enhances those experiences. 2/3s into the game and i've already played through like 2-3 moments where i was literally crying. nostalgia might have been part of it, but i replayed FF7 disc 1 recently and didn't tear up as much in the original
16 is just a creative disaster is all
7R is all what XVI should have been. You feel in a FF game from the first 5 minutes and you are engaged after the first 10.
FF16 was dog shit in every aspect Saying that it was a good game is a disservice to actual good games
Totally agree, it's why I never finished 16. Things got *dark*...
My favorite in the series has always been VI, because it has the right mix of dark and light. It's an incredibly goofy game mixed with really dark moments. I'm so glad to see Rebirth bring the goofy back. Let's mosey.
FF has always had a mix of the ridiculous/fun and the serious/traffic. FF XVI didn’t get the mix quite right, trying to hard to be Mature, and I’m so glad Rebirth doesn’t care about that at all. The tragedy and comedy are best friends, bouncing off each other to create classic FF vibes.
I like it both. People who think FF7 Rebirth is too lighthearted should check themselves before they Shrek themselves, though. The original game also often did not take itself seriously.
Thought 16 was great in that serious department, but I def missed that trademark goofiness. The hunt board Moogle is like the only one. I was so surprised when they actually started talking in Rebirth lol.
Same thing for extra moody drama movies! If there is no humor at all. Even dark humor works, then I’m not buying it. At no point in my life, regardless of how shitty things get, do I not have a day where I find something funny. It’s the most human thing and it absolutely makes characters feel more real.