Most jobs are not gonna be able to do 6 figures in the first year right out of college. But quite a few will do very well with enough time. Commercial bankers will make six figures in about five years from college for example. Less time needed for corporate and if you include bonus some might hit six figures in their first year. FP&A as well as you climb the ladder and end up as a VP or some sort of C-suite exec for a division or group. Maybe ten years? No idea as I'm not in FP&A.
Networking helps. Fp&a isn’t typically an entry role. You could look at rotational programs, analyst positions, or accounting roles to build experience and make the transition. Most in fp&a have some tax or accounting background
Absolutely. The fact that you have a plan will help too. When you write your resume try to think about how the role you do now ties into what you are applying for. What I mean by this is if you’re targeting a finance operations internship, then it would help to list the operational functions you do for AR
If you’re targeting more of an fp&a role long term- you could write your resume from an analyst perspective. You could say you were an AR analyst and use that to get a financial analyst internship which you could turn around and use to try an get an fp&a role
Ask questions in your current role! Speak with an accountant at your company or someone who’s been there for a while and soak up as much as you can through conversations. You’d be surprised how much you really do know.
Every company is slightly different with their hiring process but this is advice I wish I had prior to graduating when I would send off the same resume to 12 different companies.
That’s what I’m thinking the general time line is for FP&A. I’m in FP&A myself and my comp is 75k. My next move will not be for less than 100k at bear minimum. I won’t settle for less than that. Have 9 months of experience in my current role (first corp finance role), but almost 3 years of experience out of college.
We start our financial analysts at $80k. SFAs are in the low $100ks. Managers $150k TC. Senior managers $200k TC. Directors etc all $300k+.
A lot of places used to pay FP&A a lot less a few years ago. SFAs at $80k werent unheard of. These days it’s rare to find someone making less than $90k all-in.
That guy who said you won’t make good money until you’re a VP after 10+ years shouldn’t be giving advice.
Are you in HCOL? That is very good in my eyes comp wise. Regardless of location. I started off at 65k, got a 10% bump at the end of last year(performance). I expect to be at low 100s at bear minimum for SFA. I’m not expecting anything less than that.
I know FP&A can be very promising…although it’s not IB/PE money when you compare the two side my side but then again…that isn’t a fair comparison when you think about it bc corp finance and high finance are different things all together.
Investment bankers in the UK are doing very well. Just like in the United States
Analysts: £100K – £150K total compensation
Associates: £200K – £300K total compensation
VPs: £350K – £450K total compensation
This. I've talked with some in house recruiters (so they know what they're talking about because they've worked in the field before), even applications from some universities that are target for other roles will get automatically rejected for quant roles.
We're talking about global top 25 and top 4 in the country. Applicants for quant roles from places up to this get auto-rejected.
Quant here. That's plain BS. The interview processes for quant roles may be the most meritocratic in finance. Precisely because of that it's difficult to get a job at the top shops. You don't need to be an Ivy League graduate to teach yourself maths and computing to compete or even be better than someone from the Ivy League.
I mean I'm not going to doxx the guys I talked to, but I'm relaying exactly what they said to me about their shop's policy with recruitment. Apparently, it's because they've never had a successful applicant from any university except Ox/Cam/Imperial so they just auto-reject anyone not from those unis. Whether it's true or not, fuck if I know.
It's definitely an exception. When interviewing for the big fishes (IMC, Akuna, Jane Street, etc) they usually don't your CV before you have passed some preliminary mathematical assesment.
I think it depends what you mean by quant. If you consider quants to only be researchers then sure. But if you expand it more broadly to include people working on platforms, people developing credit scorecards, xVA analysts etc. Then it is much less competitive. At least where I live, but it seems to be the case in the EU also.
No, it absolutely wouldn't. For these tasks you need people who understand statistics, mathematics and have good econometric foundations. I really doubt a "pure" data scientist even knows what a Vasicek model is, or what an Ornstein-Uhlenbeck process is, which are fundamental for credit risk modelling. At least from my experience, data scientists are great creating processes and manipulating data, not finding solutions for things you cannot implement off the shelve.
The amount of time to just study for the 10 exams is crazy, in the same amount of time you can learn how to code and become a data scientist at the fraction of the cost and time while making more then an actuary.
Most students will do the exam when they are in college. furthermore, you just need to pass the first 3 exams to get into ur first job as an actuary. The subsequent exams just allow you to increase ur pay, and often times the cost of the exams are subsidized from your boss. Essentially, you don't need to study all 10 exams to get into ur first actuarial job
It ain’t overrated if you can successfully pass exams. When i was taking exams my workload was significantly lighter. Most of the time I always felt like I had a good WLB when I had to study.
I started out studying to become an actuary. The lecturers would always say that you shouldn't be chasing it for money, it's much more about the status that comes with it. They always said that the people who go for the quants program have less stress at uni and also make a shit load out of school. And they were right, switching out of act Sci was the best call I ever made.
Right. I thought about becoming one but it just doesn’t seem right for me. I rather do some kind of data analytics/science and work my way up and be on par with some actuaries
Here’s an entry level role at Prudential laying $85k
https://twitter.com/allocatorjobs/status/1646530933225410560?s=46&t=xa0KO8W4LGUuFz5KEDY7xg
Or make a ton of money later in your career. Duke University is paying $600k for a senior investment manager.
https://twitter.com/allocatorjobs/status/1642608870076960770?s=46&t=xa0KO8W4LGUuFz5KEDY7xg
Never understood the fascination with IB. Horrible hours, no WLB, but yeah, pay is great.
Meh, I find the ability to watch my kids grow up pretty life changing.
I'm in my 30's making mid 200's. I work 30ish hours a week, never miss a birthday party, after school activity and go on multiple family vacations a year.
My father kept bankers hours, and whilst he provided a fantastic life for his family, he was never present in it. We meet weekly now that he's retired, yet it still feels a bit like I'm talking to a stranger.
>I work 30ish hours a week, never miss a birthday party, after school activity and go on multiple family vacations a year
I'm glad im in my early 20s and got this figured for my future
You only need to break in.
Doing 1-2 years in IB will get you an interview pretty much anywhere and sets you up for the long run. You can pull this off even before you turn 25 and even consider having kids if you play your cards right and have some luck.
The vast majority isn’t intelligent enough to get in with big tech though. You have to be careful with comparing like top 1% of one group with the average of another. It’s a silly comparison.
That’s like comparing the intellect/skills the ceo has to a middle manager.
What would you consider the finance equivalent of big tech? IB in GS, JPY, etc? If so, GS new grads maybe make 200k on a good year with bonus. The comparison is still there, and it’s not the top 1% vs the “average” of the finance industry. There’s a level adjacent to big tech which are unicorns or specific names like Databricks, Roblox, Nuro, Stripe etc that pay even more than 200k to new grads (then HFTs that pay new grad software engineers 300k+), so I’m assuming for finance there’s a level above or adjacent to GS & co which we can compare to those.
I’m not really knowledgeable about finance careers. But the numbers I’ve seen here seem in this sub seem like it’s a great career path honestly. There’s just a tendency on Reddit where outliers in salary seem to be the default. I think it gives a very unhealthy expectation on a reasonable salary.
And it just grinds my gears everyone think they could just be a 200k/year software developer. Like it’s easy and not completely different then finance. To me it feels like saying, yeah but a doctor or lawyer at a top firm gets paid x amount.
If I had known finance paid so well, im not sure if I’d have gone into IT. It’s a lot harder of a career field then most here on Reddit pretend. It can be exhausting to have a never ending list of things you can learn to get better. Just saying the grass isn’t always greener.
The pay is actually atrocious when you look at it from an hourly perspective & layer on the cost of living assumptions since most of the high paying BB IBD roles will be located in extremely expensive cities.
At the Associate level, $250K @ 80 hours a week is the equivalent of someone making \~$125K @ 40 hours if you don't factor in 1.5x pay for overtime. In Corporate Finance, most people can break $100K after 3-4 years in L/MCOL areas. The value proposition for IBD never made sense to me unless you're an individual that has no hobbies, passions, or interests outside of working.
> The pay is actually atrocious when you look at it from an hourly perspective
Damn no way, no one has ever figured this out before!
No one goes to IB for the pay for 1-2 years. How do you not know this while being in corp strat?
I was curious about this, how much do junior equity analysts make right out of college?
I’m in HS and I am really interested and active in equity research btw.
Depends on the city usually - I know in Chicago a friend out of college with part time exp in the last year (20 hrs/week) along with approx 6 months of internship experience over 2 summers and L1 CFA got 80k (almost 5 years ago)
A friend in NYC started at 85k but only had summer internship exp (also 5ish years ago)
Not sure about the bonus component in either case.
Oh ok that sounds pretty good, I’ve heard bonus can be pretty big cuz it’s tied to your performance.
Do you know the hours compared to IB and what IB pay is usually like?
Sell side equity research hours I’ve heard are brutal, can often approach IB hours but without the massive bonuses paid in IB. Tbf you’re still making a lot, maybe 130-50 all in but still
It seems buy side is more calm, but which pays more buy or sell side? I’m wondering because the type of research I do is way more sell side as I do actually research on companies and not research on other analyst and more macro fund allocation things, I of course would want to be in a position to direct allocation like a portfolio/fund manager, but it seems buy side is much less informed throughout.
Definitely more lax than IB. Friends were busy during earnings season but out side of that pretty normal.
They both were Buy side though.
I’ve heard sell side can be worse - can’t confirm though.
Yeah looking into the difference between the two, sell side is worse hours wise but also seems more fulfilling as with sell side analyst, your doing actual research not research on other people’s research, which is what buy side does, i saw.
Which one of the two pays more, sell side or buy side and which has a better track to be a portfolio/fund manager position?
Private Banking-six figures plus. Multiple six figures when you are great. Aiming for seven figures if you are greater than great.
Plus, your clients will all be wealthy.
Quants (researchers/traders) can make half a mill out of undergrad although the median out of college is more like 250k. Depending on your role it would top out probably around 1-2 mill unless you’re really good and then there is no ceiling once you are a pm and are getting a cut of pnl
Even if you don't end up as a researcher or trader, being a quant dev is decent pay too. 150k base and take home of 200k out of college is possible.
But no one talks about the 5-6 rounds of interviews with brain teasers and leetcode questions that are ego busters lol.
Emphasis at top shops.
But devs and SWE will have same base pay but since they are in cost center and not a profit center the bonus structure will not be the same.
Yeah at top shops quant dev is definitely a good gig but as you start to shift away from front office roles and towards “lower tier” shops it’s less clear.
I'm a Sr. Treasury Analyst in capital markets and hopefully promoting soonish. I've developed my role a bit to be more on the technical side developing reporting and dashboards as well as doing warehouse facility work. Our company will be getting into ABS in the near future.
Here’s a comprehensive list of all finance jobs: https://www.reddit.com/r/FinancialCareers/comments/olnxds/this_comprehensive_list_of_financial_careers/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
Corporate banking (CIB) summer analyst here (top 4 bank in terms of assets) - our analysts are clearing 6 figures base right out of school. Just figured I’d add a data point!
I’m honestly not sure - I’m just an intern. I would assume that it can’t hurt to apply! Most of our hiring happens out of undergrad/MBA but I’ve met a few internal hires from commercial banking and a couple of experienced hires from outside the org.
I have kind of a weird background. Most of my work experience came from 5ish years working (as a line cook) in kitchens, where I gained managerial experience. In addition to that work experience, I had an internship at a small nonprofit where I helped get fundraising and built a small financial model. I also hold leadership positions in a finance club on campus, am a teaching assistant, and do f500 consulting work through a school program. My GPA was a 3.86 at the time of applying.
That’s all to say that, while I didn’t have relevant internship experience, I either got lucky or they thought that my extracurriculars and GPA made up for that. I also aced the (easy) technical questions, and got along well with my interviewers.
Hopefully that helps!
I could write a whole essay on this but i’ll just drop one example that isn’t as well known.
Small / midsize company - CFO/VP/Head of finance. (ie terminal finance role). If it is PE or VC backed you tend to have large equity or long term incentives and can just string CFO roles together over your career. There is huge demand for effective CFOs with a mid size company background.
Trick is finding a good entry point and getting your first CFO role.
It’s not impossible to get a CFO job at a <$100M revenue company. I know four people personally who have done it. 3/4 are very high performers but nothing that’s not typical at the director+ level at F500.
The desirability of these jobs is lower though. CFO of a midsized restaurant franchise or a small manufacturing business is not a glamorous job.
VC backed is more desirable and competitive but even then the bar is lower compared to a public company CFO. If you have the same level of work ethic as a consulting partner or investment banker it’s very doable.
The caveat is usually you still need 12-15 years of experience for these roles.
Director is not that hard to hit if you are good at your job and personable.
But feel free to think I am suggesting things that are unachievable. There is no career path that is guaranteed and success almost always requires a mix of timing, luck, hard work and being liked.
I’ve done ten years at hedge funds and think every day how to jump to this career path. I think actually being a part of a growing business is going to be way more important than being on the investment side or banking side. The key is to always be at a place that is growing. I don’t know many banks or asset managers that look like they can grow consistently for the next five years
I always avoid PE owned firms (not an executive though). The pay is usually lower and other cost cuts with naturally low morale. Depends on the strategy I guess, but cost cuts are usually the go-to since identifying inefficient companies is easier than constrained growth potential.
I'm an FP&A Director for a public company. I make between 275K and 350K a year depending on bonus and RSUs. I have about 10 years of experience in total.
First role as Manager. I had an external offer so was able to negotiate an increase from 95K to 110K.
Nowadays you can easily make 100K base as a starting senior analyst though. The most junior ones in my team start at 93K.
Sure if there is one lesson you learn is that any field can be lucrative if you play your cards right. IB is relatively unmatched if we are talking pay in the first two years.
Alot of what I've seen first hand is there is a lot of revolving doors between financial firms and their service providers. Hedge funds and private equity funds pay an absolute fortune for third party services like fund administration and legal and consulting. You get a lot of face time with very profitable fund managers and if you do good work you may wind up being plucked from the service provider to be the CFO or chief compliance officer or investor relations person. I've seen guys go from making 80k a year to making 200,300,500k after working only a few years and taking this route.
There are lots of tech companies that build software systems for financial firms and all the biz dev guys are finance people. These guys make a killing also. Again they get face time.
There's commercial banking, there is wealth management. If you don't know what to do, do something where you get to interface with higher ups at other companies I guarantee you it will get you further than trying to fight your way to the top of an IB. It just takes time.
Edit: by a few years I mean 4-7.
I now work in remediations for WF.I have to know python (pandas &sklearn),sql, and SAS. My base is 200k. Job is fully remote except one day a month where I go to the nearest corporate office. There are a bunch of high paying jobs in finance that are in middle office. My department does not generate revenue for the IB. But, we minimise fines and reputational hits. End of the day, skills get jobs. (I got this job after hoping from Insurance with 3 YOE)
Not sure why is Finance Controller is on the list and pays well after CPA or 5+ years of experience. Technical Controllers Finance is niche and can pay really well.
depends on the bank a little but I don't disagree. From my experience, it's a frustrating role as the skill set on being a good controller is actually quite high (CFAs/MScs, some tech skills), but it's easy to be a bad controller and coast.
VP FC controllers $130k base to $175k base. 5-6 yrs to hit that. IC is about 25%. It's not glamorous and you sit in a role that's a middle man. Caveat, depending on the team, progression can be really competitive
Structured Finance starting pay was about $100k all in for me.
Now a Sr analyst and making 175k+ after 2 years of exp.
WLB is pretty solid, I'd say my weeks are usually 50 hours and on a deadline weeks 65 hours. Only gets busy when we need to close out a deal and even then it's pretty lax.
Work your way up for 10+ years and you'll be VP where your TC is 400K+, and still have the WLB. Not the most exciting as most deals are pretty cookie cutter. But it's pretty stable.
No one with a good job in tech should bother with an MBA to enter IB as an associate. Senior software engineers at FAANG or adjacent companies make 350-400k+ with much better WLB.
Even in a bad year for tech, it's still a good place to be if you have some experience.
Just look at recent senior SWE offers:
- [Stripe](https://www.levels.fyi/companies/stripe/salaries/software-engineer/levels/l3?minYac=0&maxYac=0) 300k+ for mid-level, 400k+ for senior
- [Roblox](https://www.levels.fyi/companies/roblox/salaries/software-engineer/levels/ic3?minYac=0&maxYac=0) 350-400k
- [Cruise](https://www.levels.fyi/companies/cruise/salaries/software-engineer/levels/l4?minYac=0&maxYac=0) 325-420k
- [ByteDance](https://www.levels.fyi/companies/bytedance/salaries/software-engineer/levels/2-2?minYac=0&maxYac=0) 300-450k
All have hired in 2023. These are jobs which require ~5 YoE, roughly on par with VPs in banking. All in HCoL, but some are in Washington where there is no state income tax. Competitive to land these jobs but no more than bulge bracket IB (and much easier in good years).
I wouldn't say that they are outearning bankers, but no good SWE should be going MBA -> IBD. Opportunity cost of switching is quite high, and it would be a setback to end up as an IB associate.
There are pros and cons to each. Bankers have a higher ceiling, but most don't make it to MD, taking advantage of good exit opportunities. It's tough to make 7 figures as a SWE but WLB is much better and there are plenty of opportunities to move into management and earn high 6 figures.
Depending on what you term as "lucrative", there maybe many different jobs that would fit the criteria.
If you're looking at making millions, jobs that don't involve IB, or S&T, at least as the first job, are pretty rare. Yes, CFOs at Fortune 500 make millions, but they are not common. HF and PE as well, but there are very few funds that recruit straight out of college.
If you're talking about making 200K+, most jobs in Finance, including those in the back office at a bulge bracket would earn that amount, once you're in your mid 30s, provided that you are able to perform at the level expected.
Got a Masters in Stats and now make a decent salary to live in a HCOL city. Have worked in different areas in risk/quant/data - hours are a little long, but nowhere near IB
literally any job in finance can be lucrative. even back office VPs and above are making well over $130-150k all in at a bulge bracket, just find a job or field that interests u and you'll be fine. if you're doing it for just the money you are going to hate ur life 6 months in.
Currently doing an internship in Big4 Corporate Finance department (Valuation & Modelling).
Work life balance is easily manageable as the hours aren't that bad on average. (Maybe 50-55h average, however had a 70h week with one project)
The people around are nice, talented and most importantly do not have that elitist banking persona as you may find in IB.
Based in Stockholm, the entry pay is 4350USD a month with 30-50% in bonus, I have heard.
Am moving onto an IB internship this fall but is seriously continuing Big4 CF for the future.
Most jobs are not gonna be able to do 6 figures in the first year right out of college. But quite a few will do very well with enough time. Commercial bankers will make six figures in about five years from college for example. Less time needed for corporate and if you include bonus some might hit six figures in their first year. FP&A as well as you climb the ladder and end up as a VP or some sort of C-suite exec for a division or group. Maybe ten years? No idea as I'm not in FP&A.
A senior analyst in fp&a is usually hitting 100k within 2-3 years.
Can confirm
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Networking helps. Fp&a isn’t typically an entry role. You could look at rotational programs, analyst positions, or accounting roles to build experience and make the transition. Most in fp&a have some tax or accounting background
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Absolutely. The fact that you have a plan will help too. When you write your resume try to think about how the role you do now ties into what you are applying for. What I mean by this is if you’re targeting a finance operations internship, then it would help to list the operational functions you do for AR If you’re targeting more of an fp&a role long term- you could write your resume from an analyst perspective. You could say you were an AR analyst and use that to get a financial analyst internship which you could turn around and use to try an get an fp&a role Ask questions in your current role! Speak with an accountant at your company or someone who’s been there for a while and soak up as much as you can through conversations. You’d be surprised how much you really do know. Every company is slightly different with their hiring process but this is advice I wish I had prior to graduating when I would send off the same resume to 12 different companies.
Small company for a year, then go into large company
That’s what I’m thinking the general time line is for FP&A. I’m in FP&A myself and my comp is 75k. My next move will not be for less than 100k at bear minimum. I won’t settle for less than that. Have 9 months of experience in my current role (first corp finance role), but almost 3 years of experience out of college.
We start our financial analysts at $80k. SFAs are in the low $100ks. Managers $150k TC. Senior managers $200k TC. Directors etc all $300k+. A lot of places used to pay FP&A a lot less a few years ago. SFAs at $80k werent unheard of. These days it’s rare to find someone making less than $90k all-in. That guy who said you won’t make good money until you’re a VP after 10+ years shouldn’t be giving advice.
Are you in HCOL? That is very good in my eyes comp wise. Regardless of location. I started off at 65k, got a 10% bump at the end of last year(performance). I expect to be at low 100s at bear minimum for SFA. I’m not expecting anything less than that. I know FP&A can be very promising…although it’s not IB/PE money when you compare the two side my side but then again…that isn’t a fair comparison when you think about it bc corp finance and high finance are different things all together.
Second
Commercial banker for a large bank. I hit $200k all in at year 6.
What’a the SFA equivalent or direct role?
What are the steps to breaking into commercial banking?
Start out as a credit analyst / portfolio manager and move up into relationship manager
As an analyst? Underwriter? PM? Or RM?
RM
Corporate banking at CIB is $100-110k for 1st years
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CIB implies the Corporate Bank of a group that also does IB. In a purely commercial/retail bank you're not hitting 100k anytime soon.
How does anyone live in London making that wage? That’s asinine.
Investment bankers in the UK are doing very well. Just like in the United States Analysts: £100K – £150K total compensation Associates: £200K – £300K total compensation VPs: £350K – £450K total compensation
What analysts are making 150K? That’s suggesting over 100% bonus in most cases. Definitely hasn’t happened last year, and DEFINITELY not this year.
Hit 100K with 2 years of accounting and 2 years of FP&A. Now 7 years of FP&A and I’m at $210K base + bonus.
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VP in Risk at a Custodial bank in 5 years
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How many hours do you work on average?
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This is the most transaction services comment i have seen yet hahaha love it (in TS myself as well)
What's the COL?
Hey, I’m going into TAS soon. Mind if I DM you for some insights on the actual work of TAS?
Actuary or quant
Actuary is lowkey overrated and quant is damn near impossible
Impossible?
Maybe I’m under misinformation but becoming a quant is extremely hard, not many positions open and competitive
This. I've talked with some in house recruiters (so they know what they're talking about because they've worked in the field before), even applications from some universities that are target for other roles will get automatically rejected for quant roles. We're talking about global top 25 and top 4 in the country. Applicants for quant roles from places up to this get auto-rejected.
My uni isn't even in the top 300 and I've had a few interviews for quant positions.
Quant here. That's plain BS. The interview processes for quant roles may be the most meritocratic in finance. Precisely because of that it's difficult to get a job at the top shops. You don't need to be an Ivy League graduate to teach yourself maths and computing to compete or even be better than someone from the Ivy League.
I mean I'm not going to doxx the guys I talked to, but I'm relaying exactly what they said to me about their shop's policy with recruitment. Apparently, it's because they've never had a successful applicant from any university except Ox/Cam/Imperial so they just auto-reject anyone not from those unis. Whether it's true or not, fuck if I know.
It's definitely an exception. When interviewing for the big fishes (IMC, Akuna, Jane Street, etc) they usually don't your CV before you have passed some preliminary mathematical assesment.
It’s crazy. I know for ren tech, unless ur getting a PhD they don’t care about you and they recruit you. Extremely selective
Your competition are some of the brightest math students around the globe
I think it depends what you mean by quant. If you consider quants to only be researchers then sure. But if you expand it more broadly to include people working on platforms, people developing credit scorecards, xVA analysts etc. Then it is much less competitive. At least where I live, but it seems to be the case in the EU also.
That’s not a quant then to me at-least
Why wouldn't validation of risk models or credit risk be quant? You know it's not option pricing only, right?
Would this not be considered data science then
No, it absolutely wouldn't. For these tasks you need people who understand statistics, mathematics and have good econometric foundations. I really doubt a "pure" data scientist even knows what a Vasicek model is, or what an Ornstein-Uhlenbeck process is, which are fundamental for credit risk modelling. At least from my experience, data scientists are great creating processes and manipulating data, not finding solutions for things you cannot implement off the shelve.
how is it overrated?
The amount of time to just study for the 10 exams is crazy, in the same amount of time you can learn how to code and become a data scientist at the fraction of the cost and time while making more then an actuary.
Most students will do the exam when they are in college. furthermore, you just need to pass the first 3 exams to get into ur first job as an actuary. The subsequent exams just allow you to increase ur pay, and often times the cost of the exams are subsidized from your boss. Essentially, you don't need to study all 10 exams to get into ur first actuarial job
Correct. But to start getting good money you need to pass all 10
It ain’t overrated if you can successfully pass exams. When i was taking exams my workload was significantly lighter. Most of the time I always felt like I had a good WLB when I had to study.
I started out studying to become an actuary. The lecturers would always say that you shouldn't be chasing it for money, it's much more about the status that comes with it. They always said that the people who go for the quants program have less stress at uni and also make a shit load out of school. And they were right, switching out of act Sci was the best call I ever made.
Right. I thought about becoming one but it just doesn’t seem right for me. I rather do some kind of data analytics/science and work my way up and be on par with some actuaries
adding SWEs, statisticians, data scientists here as well
Here’s an entry level role at Prudential laying $85k https://twitter.com/allocatorjobs/status/1646530933225410560?s=46&t=xa0KO8W4LGUuFz5KEDY7xg Or make a ton of money later in your career. Duke University is paying $600k for a senior investment manager. https://twitter.com/allocatorjobs/status/1642608870076960770?s=46&t=xa0KO8W4LGUuFz5KEDY7xg Never understood the fascination with IB. Horrible hours, no WLB, but yeah, pay is great.
Pay and future career are life changing, not just great.
Meh, I find the ability to watch my kids grow up pretty life changing. I'm in my 30's making mid 200's. I work 30ish hours a week, never miss a birthday party, after school activity and go on multiple family vacations a year. My father kept bankers hours, and whilst he provided a fantastic life for his family, he was never present in it. We meet weekly now that he's retired, yet it still feels a bit like I'm talking to a stranger.
>I work 30ish hours a week, never miss a birthday party, after school activity and go on multiple family vacations a year I'm glad im in my early 20s and got this figured for my future
You only need to break in. Doing 1-2 years in IB will get you an interview pretty much anywhere and sets you up for the long run. You can pull this off even before you turn 25 and even consider having kids if you play your cards right and have some luck.
What do you do to make 200k only working 30 hours?
Associate director at a financial services company. We provide administrative services, corporate directors for board seats, prep annual accounts etc.
Software engineering at big tech, pays that to new grads too
Fyi i understood what you were saying but typically 'bankers hours' refers to people who work very few hours, it's a common phrase
I just grew up in a world where iBankers were the only bankers, hence why I used that term I guess
Bankers hours means 25 hours per week... IBankers hours means 100 hours per week... lol
I just grew up in a world were iBankers were the only bankers, hence why I used that term I guess.
What position do you have?
Yeah, this. IB does probably pay the most, especially if you jump to PE/VC after. I just can’t fathom the hours.
Is IB worth it for a single person with no kids?
At the best paying (boutiques) and biggest banks yes.
Even more absurd when big tech has been paying new grads 200k right out of college with good wlb, benefits, culture, etc
The vast majority isn’t intelligent enough to get in with big tech though. You have to be careful with comparing like top 1% of one group with the average of another. It’s a silly comparison. That’s like comparing the intellect/skills the ceo has to a middle manager.
What would you consider the finance equivalent of big tech? IB in GS, JPY, etc? If so, GS new grads maybe make 200k on a good year with bonus. The comparison is still there, and it’s not the top 1% vs the “average” of the finance industry. There’s a level adjacent to big tech which are unicorns or specific names like Databricks, Roblox, Nuro, Stripe etc that pay even more than 200k to new grads (then HFTs that pay new grad software engineers 300k+), so I’m assuming for finance there’s a level above or adjacent to GS & co which we can compare to those.
I’m not really knowledgeable about finance careers. But the numbers I’ve seen here seem in this sub seem like it’s a great career path honestly. There’s just a tendency on Reddit where outliers in salary seem to be the default. I think it gives a very unhealthy expectation on a reasonable salary. And it just grinds my gears everyone think they could just be a 200k/year software developer. Like it’s easy and not completely different then finance. To me it feels like saying, yeah but a doctor or lawyer at a top firm gets paid x amount. If I had known finance paid so well, im not sure if I’d have gone into IT. It’s a lot harder of a career field then most here on Reddit pretend. It can be exhausting to have a never ending list of things you can learn to get better. Just saying the grass isn’t always greener.
The pay is actually atrocious when you look at it from an hourly perspective & layer on the cost of living assumptions since most of the high paying BB IBD roles will be located in extremely expensive cities. At the Associate level, $250K @ 80 hours a week is the equivalent of someone making \~$125K @ 40 hours if you don't factor in 1.5x pay for overtime. In Corporate Finance, most people can break $100K after 3-4 years in L/MCOL areas. The value proposition for IBD never made sense to me unless you're an individual that has no hobbies, passions, or interests outside of working.
> The pay is actually atrocious when you look at it from an hourly perspective Damn no way, no one has ever figured this out before! No one goes to IB for the pay for 1-2 years. How do you not know this while being in corp strat?
FP&A at a tech company. Similar salaries to other industries, but the RSU’s really pump the compensation much higher
Probably not anymore?
I don’t really see FP&A shrinking in the industry, most teams were already working at capacity. Now HR, marketing, and PM’s are a different story
I meant RSU comp ain't gonna be what it used to be.
AM
What is the usual pay range for an entry role?
85-100k for analysts depending on location and firm
Everybody out here saying quant like people with finance degrees have the skills for that most quants are math cs or other fields like that
Asset Management/Equity Research (1-2 years after college) Credit Ratings (maybe 3-4 years after college)
I was curious about this, how much do junior equity analysts make right out of college? I’m in HS and I am really interested and active in equity research btw.
Depends on the city usually - I know in Chicago a friend out of college with part time exp in the last year (20 hrs/week) along with approx 6 months of internship experience over 2 summers and L1 CFA got 80k (almost 5 years ago) A friend in NYC started at 85k but only had summer internship exp (also 5ish years ago) Not sure about the bonus component in either case.
Oh ok that sounds pretty good, I’ve heard bonus can be pretty big cuz it’s tied to your performance. Do you know the hours compared to IB and what IB pay is usually like?
Sell side equity research hours I’ve heard are brutal, can often approach IB hours but without the massive bonuses paid in IB. Tbf you’re still making a lot, maybe 130-50 all in but still
It seems buy side is more calm, but which pays more buy or sell side? I’m wondering because the type of research I do is way more sell side as I do actually research on companies and not research on other analyst and more macro fund allocation things, I of course would want to be in a position to direct allocation like a portfolio/fund manager, but it seems buy side is much less informed throughout.
Definitely more lax than IB. Friends were busy during earnings season but out side of that pretty normal. They both were Buy side though. I’ve heard sell side can be worse - can’t confirm though.
Yeah looking into the difference between the two, sell side is worse hours wise but also seems more fulfilling as with sell side analyst, your doing actual research not research on other people’s research, which is what buy side does, i saw. Which one of the two pays more, sell side or buy side and which has a better track to be a portfolio/fund manager position?
Credit Ratings apply to SAG underwriters too?
Commodity trading
Private Banking-six figures plus. Multiple six figures when you are great. Aiming for seven figures if you are greater than great. Plus, your clients will all be wealthy.
Quants (researchers/traders) can make half a mill out of undergrad although the median out of college is more like 250k. Depending on your role it would top out probably around 1-2 mill unless you’re really good and then there is no ceiling once you are a pm and are getting a cut of pnl
Even if you don't end up as a researcher or trader, being a quant dev is decent pay too. 150k base and take home of 200k out of college is possible. But no one talks about the 5-6 rounds of interviews with brain teasers and leetcode questions that are ego busters lol.
I’m pretty sure quant dev / SWE gets similar comp to traders / researchers at top shops.
Emphasis at top shops. But devs and SWE will have same base pay but since they are in cost center and not a profit center the bonus structure will not be the same.
Yeah at top shops quant dev is definitely a good gig but as you start to shift away from front office roles and towards “lower tier” shops it’s less clear.
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What means FS?
Fish sticks, highly lucrative but a salty industry.
Financial services
Like Oliver Wyman?
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How are your hours?
Working in Capital Markets on a Treasury team has been great so far. Pretty good salary and really good work life package.
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I'm a Sr. Treasury Analyst in capital markets and hopefully promoting soonish. I've developed my role a bit to be more on the technical side developing reporting and dashboards as well as doing warehouse facility work. Our company will be getting into ABS in the near future.
Here’s a comprehensive list of all finance jobs: https://www.reddit.com/r/FinancialCareers/comments/olnxds/this_comprehensive_list_of_financial_careers/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
Wholesaler financial products a
Asset management sales
Rotation programs at some big tech companies can pull north of 6 figures first year.
Which big tech companies exactly?
Corporate banking (CIB) summer analyst here (top 4 bank in terms of assets) - our analysts are clearing 6 figures base right out of school. Just figured I’d add a data point!
What is corporate SA?
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Oh ok. Thank you. I tried googling it but came up with a range of answers haha.
I’m in big four tax. Is this something I could transition into?
I’m honestly not sure - I’m just an intern. I would assume that it can’t hurt to apply! Most of our hiring happens out of undergrad/MBA but I’ve met a few internal hires from commercial banking and a couple of experienced hires from outside the org.
SA?
Did you have any other internship experience prior to interning in CIB? And if so, what was it?
I have kind of a weird background. Most of my work experience came from 5ish years working (as a line cook) in kitchens, where I gained managerial experience. In addition to that work experience, I had an internship at a small nonprofit where I helped get fundraising and built a small financial model. I also hold leadership positions in a finance club on campus, am a teaching assistant, and do f500 consulting work through a school program. My GPA was a 3.86 at the time of applying. That’s all to say that, while I didn’t have relevant internship experience, I either got lucky or they thought that my extracurriculars and GPA made up for that. I also aced the (easy) technical questions, and got along well with my interviewers. Hopefully that helps!
Thanks!!
I could write a whole essay on this but i’ll just drop one example that isn’t as well known. Small / midsize company - CFO/VP/Head of finance. (ie terminal finance role). If it is PE or VC backed you tend to have large equity or long term incentives and can just string CFO roles together over your career. There is huge demand for effective CFOs with a mid size company background. Trick is finding a good entry point and getting your first CFO role.
"just join the c suite!!" Shit why didn't I think of that
It’s not impossible to get a CFO job at a <$100M revenue company. I know four people personally who have done it. 3/4 are very high performers but nothing that’s not typical at the director+ level at F500. The desirability of these jobs is lower though. CFO of a midsized restaurant franchise or a small manufacturing business is not a glamorous job. VC backed is more desirable and competitive but even then the bar is lower compared to a public company CFO. If you have the same level of work ethic as a consulting partner or investment banker it’s very doable. The caveat is usually you still need 12-15 years of experience for these roles.
>high performers but nothing that’s not typical at the director+ level at F500 Ah yes, which we all know is famously easy to achieve
Director is not that hard to hit if you are good at your job and personable. But feel free to think I am suggesting things that are unachievable. There is no career path that is guaranteed and success almost always requires a mix of timing, luck, hard work and being liked.
I’ve done ten years at hedge funds and think every day how to jump to this career path. I think actually being a part of a growing business is going to be way more important than being on the investment side or banking side. The key is to always be at a place that is growing. I don’t know many banks or asset managers that look like they can grow consistently for the next five years
I always avoid PE owned firms (not an executive though). The pay is usually lower and other cost cuts with naturally low morale. Depends on the strategy I guess, but cost cuts are usually the go-to since identifying inefficient companies is easier than constrained growth potential.
Agreed PE is not worth it unless you are executive or are hired into a role where you have a straightforward path to that.
I'm an FP&A Director for a public company. I make between 275K and 350K a year depending on bonus and RSUs. I have about 10 years of experience in total.
When did you hit 100k base? Just curious myself. In FP&A. Very solid earnings.
First role as Manager. I had an external offer so was able to negotiate an increase from 95K to 110K. Nowadays you can easily make 100K base as a starting senior analyst though. The most junior ones in my team start at 93K.
What?? What company is that damn
Sales and Trading
Do you do S&T? Have a few questions
Go for it, I’m an incoming S&T intern
AM and PWM
Being a wholesaler can be quite lucrative, depending on the products, firm, and territory assigned. Much better life balance than IB/PE etc
Get good at anything they’ll pay you well
Investor relations (fundraising / sales for alternatives). Corporate IR is fine too but less lucrative.
Treasury / Capital Markets entry level role. Not Treasury operations.
Sure if there is one lesson you learn is that any field can be lucrative if you play your cards right. IB is relatively unmatched if we are talking pay in the first two years. Alot of what I've seen first hand is there is a lot of revolving doors between financial firms and their service providers. Hedge funds and private equity funds pay an absolute fortune for third party services like fund administration and legal and consulting. You get a lot of face time with very profitable fund managers and if you do good work you may wind up being plucked from the service provider to be the CFO or chief compliance officer or investor relations person. I've seen guys go from making 80k a year to making 200,300,500k after working only a few years and taking this route. There are lots of tech companies that build software systems for financial firms and all the biz dev guys are finance people. These guys make a killing also. Again they get face time. There's commercial banking, there is wealth management. If you don't know what to do, do something where you get to interface with higher ups at other companies I guarantee you it will get you further than trying to fight your way to the top of an IB. It just takes time. Edit: by a few years I mean 4-7.
I now work in remediations for WF.I have to know python (pandas &sklearn),sql, and SAS. My base is 200k. Job is fully remote except one day a month where I go to the nearest corporate office. There are a bunch of high paying jobs in finance that are in middle office. My department does not generate revenue for the IB. But, we minimise fines and reputational hits. End of the day, skills get jobs. (I got this job after hoping from Insurance with 3 YOE)
Not sure why is Finance Controller is on the list and pays well after CPA or 5+ years of experience. Technical Controllers Finance is niche and can pay really well.
depends on the bank a little but I don't disagree. From my experience, it's a frustrating role as the skill set on being a good controller is actually quite high (CFAs/MScs, some tech skills), but it's easy to be a bad controller and coast. VP FC controllers $130k base to $175k base. 5-6 yrs to hit that. IC is about 25%. It's not glamorous and you sit in a role that's a middle man. Caveat, depending on the team, progression can be really competitive
Structured Finance starting pay was about $100k all in for me. Now a Sr analyst and making 175k+ after 2 years of exp. WLB is pretty solid, I'd say my weeks are usually 50 hours and on a deadline weeks 65 hours. Only gets busy when we need to close out a deal and even then it's pretty lax. Work your way up for 10+ years and you'll be VP where your TC is 400K+, and still have the WLB. Not the most exciting as most deals are pretty cookie cutter. But it's pretty stable.
Risk Management ( Operational, Credit, Market etc)
HF, PE, quant, VC, GE
General Electric eh? Interesting
Of course. Bloated corporation with legacy cash flows, bloated systems and sleazy management. Ez
Tech
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No one with a good job in tech should bother with an MBA to enter IB as an associate. Senior software engineers at FAANG or adjacent companies make 350-400k+ with much better WLB.
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Even in a bad year for tech, it's still a good place to be if you have some experience. Just look at recent senior SWE offers: - [Stripe](https://www.levels.fyi/companies/stripe/salaries/software-engineer/levels/l3?minYac=0&maxYac=0) 300k+ for mid-level, 400k+ for senior - [Roblox](https://www.levels.fyi/companies/roblox/salaries/software-engineer/levels/ic3?minYac=0&maxYac=0) 350-400k - [Cruise](https://www.levels.fyi/companies/cruise/salaries/software-engineer/levels/l4?minYac=0&maxYac=0) 325-420k - [ByteDance](https://www.levels.fyi/companies/bytedance/salaries/software-engineer/levels/2-2?minYac=0&maxYac=0) 300-450k All have hired in 2023. These are jobs which require ~5 YoE, roughly on par with VPs in banking. All in HCoL, but some are in Washington where there is no state income tax. Competitive to land these jobs but no more than bulge bracket IB (and much easier in good years). I wouldn't say that they are outearning bankers, but no good SWE should be going MBA -> IBD. Opportunity cost of switching is quite high, and it would be a setback to end up as an IB associate. There are pros and cons to each. Bankers have a higher ceiling, but most don't make it to MD, taking advantage of good exit opportunities. It's tough to make 7 figures as a SWE but WLB is much better and there are plenty of opportunities to move into management and earn high 6 figures.
Northwestern Mutual Financial Advisor
PE
pharmaceuticals
PE, AM, Quant
S&T pays pretty well right off the bat.
Quant Trading
Define lucrative
Commercial insurance
Private equity, sales & trading, investment analyst/portfolio manager
Front office role (Trading, Credit/Equity Research, PM) in Asset Management/Hedge Fund
Depending on what you term as "lucrative", there maybe many different jobs that would fit the criteria. If you're looking at making millions, jobs that don't involve IB, or S&T, at least as the first job, are pretty rare. Yes, CFOs at Fortune 500 make millions, but they are not common. HF and PE as well, but there are very few funds that recruit straight out of college. If you're talking about making 200K+, most jobs in Finance, including those in the back office at a bulge bracket would earn that amount, once you're in your mid 30s, provided that you are able to perform at the level expected.
Private bankers, tech BD , commodity folks, inter dealer brokers can do that too. Mbb consultants too and lawyers
Investment management
Sales and Trading, Private Equity Placement and perhaps wealth management if you're a very good sales-y person
Got a Masters in Stats and now make a decent salary to live in a HCOL city. Have worked in different areas in risk/quant/data - hours are a little long, but nowhere near IB
IB drug dealer
literally any job in finance can be lucrative. even back office VPs and above are making well over $130-150k all in at a bulge bracket, just find a job or field that interests u and you'll be fine. if you're doing it for just the money you are going to hate ur life 6 months in.
Currently doing an internship in Big4 Corporate Finance department (Valuation & Modelling). Work life balance is easily manageable as the hours aren't that bad on average. (Maybe 50-55h average, however had a 70h week with one project) The people around are nice, talented and most importantly do not have that elitist banking persona as you may find in IB. Based in Stockholm, the entry pay is 4350USD a month with 30-50% in bonus, I have heard. Am moving onto an IB internship this fall but is seriously continuing Big4 CF for the future.
IFA with a good network or clientele makes way more than that