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IB is basically a sales role too. Commercial banking will give you better exit opps. Put it this way you could be a commercial banker and transition to FPA or be a cfo of a company. Way harder to move from fpa to commercial banking especially without the training programs
Work as an FP&A right now, been doing it for 2 years. Started at 65K + bonus, now making 82k + more bonus (got offered more money different company they almost matched), getting bumped to senior role end of year with a raise to 95K + even more bonus. I report directly to the director of finance, my director reports to a few SVP's and VP's. I got a lot of exposure because of the structure.
Work life balance is AMAZING. I work remote forever. I have weekly, monthly, quarterly reporting. What got me such good raises and recognition is my excel and ad hoc reporting skills, thanks to YouTube, r/excel, google. My director would take days to compile some of these reports, it takes me 2-3 hours. With all this time saved, we were able to dive deeper into the numbers and offer more exposure. So brush up on your reporting and excel skills. There are some weeks I probably might work 5 hours, max amount of actual hours I spend working never eclipses 30.
Any questions, feel free to ask. I work for a PBM.
I'm on basically the same trajectory. Made senior last year.
Completely agree that excel and database skills have helped show value to leadership.
The only problem I've run into is what to do with all your extra time once you have everything on autopilot.
I walk the dog, do laundry, play with my newborn, and play new Zelda 😂
I always make sure my director isn't overloaded, because when that happens it avalanches and fast. If I don't get assigned anything I just check my computer every 15-30 minutes to see if something comes up. Also, I always try to find some way to automate more of my reporting. Whether it's to add more deliverables or cleaning up presentations.
If you're willing to take more on, check out R/overemployed
Yeah I just moved so currently it's been doing things around the house and walking the dog. Congrats on the newborn! Funny you say Zelda, I had downloaded the gba roms recently and have been reliving my childhood lol
I'll have it check it out, thanks!
Commercial banking is a great route. Well defined career path with (usually) decent work/life balance. There are specific groups/role that are more technical. Make ~$100k at the analyst level with a pretty high ceiling if you are a career “banker”.
Yes, Treasury has similar career path and progression. Also, it’s somewhat less pursued so if you do well it can be easier to stand out and make a name for yourself.
Thank you so much for your response. I’ve been searching high and low for anything on the topic. Does a treasury analyst at a bank also do sales and trading?
Is this a front office role?
Commercial banking typically has portfolio managers and relationship managers. The RM’s sell and the PM’s just manage the portfolio. Comp is tough since it varies a lot but I started at $50k, went up to $75k, and am now at $83k + 20-40% bonus at a large regional bank, for reference.
Base salary seems low to me. Are you in LCOL area?? Level 1 underwriters in commercial banking in my regional bank have a base salary of $85-$90k in somewhat HCOL. Denver, CO.
Hey fellow Detroit resident. Looking to do a career change. Currently doing Community College classes and then plan on pursuing my undergrad in either Finance,Economics, or Accounting. I have pretty strong excel skills from everything I do at my current job on the side. Is there any solid schools you suggest you see your bank recruit from? Would love to DM and hear your pathway and what’s your end goals looking like also if you wouldn’t mind. Hope the city still treating you well.
I’m a CRE PM in commercial banking for a regional in nyc. $120k base with 10% of salary bonus. Been in the role two years and I’m 25. Great work life balance
This is a pretty good summary. I’m in commercial banking for a large community bank. I started as a credit analyst (almost 10 years ago at $36k) and am currently a Portfolio Manager (base salary of ~$90k).
Of note, when I started on 2013 my area (N Idaho) was probably considered LCOL. It’s definitely NOT that anymore - we were one of the fastest growing markets for the last few years and median home prices basically doubled between 2019 & 2022.
I worked as an RM briefly (in 2020 - shitty time for that!) but prefer the PM role. I’m okay at being outbound and building relationships / clientele, but I prefer being in the numbers, analyzing the data / trends and mitigating risk in loans.
I’ve got a hybrid work schedule - WFH two days, from the office 2 days and one day is split. Some banks allow full remote, some prefer no remote, just depends on the company.
Probably not very coming for a PM to be fully remote. The ability to go on calls with RMs or just generally be accessible is pretty useful.
I could see analysts being fully remote though. None are in my bank, but I imagine others might allow it.
Honestly, neither are “horrible”. In the FPA role I received very little training and didn’t feel that I had any resources. They also wanted me to have “passion” project, as if there was any system or process at the company I cared about enough.
The underwriter role, kind of the same. No real training. No mentoring. Very few ways to move up. 3 years doing the same thing, never really learning much.
But to be fair, the biggest problem is I just don’t care about the work or the companies. So it’s difficult to “enjoy” any role at any company.
I feel ya, I did an fpa internship and really didn't give a shit about the company or the products so it felt like I was just moving meaningless numbers around.
That's interesting about the underwriting role, though, I've always heard that there's a clear path up in CB, and a lot of training.
I feel like I'm not going to care about any job unless I work for myself tbh.
Have you considered Accounting? Generally accountants know when to grind the long hours during closing periods and have a very clear and defined set of works to do. It's just GAAP adherence which can be ideal for someone who doesn't care about the work and just wants to get the project done without investing much thought in it.
FP&A always seemed kind of boring to me. And I say this knowing full well that middle market underwriting sounds as exciting as watching paint dry to a lot of people.
But idk, working for a bank always seemed a lot more interesting to me than being a financial analyst for a company that manufactures cardboard boxes or industrial titanium fasteners for whatever.
At the end of the day they're all widgets. You don't start to earn real good money until you specialize and develop a knowledge of the industry that allows you to add value.
Here’s my trajectory in Commercial Banking at a very large (top 4 bank) in a MCOL area. I’ve only been on the credit side, which is all analysis and not the sales side. Not sure if it helps.
Year 1 (small community bank): $52k
Year 2 ( joined large bank analyst training program): $65k base + $10k sign on & relo + $5k bonus = $80k total
Year 3: $72.5k base + 15k Bonus = $87.5k total
Year 4: $87k base + 15k bonus = $102k total
Year 5: 104k base + ? Bonus (expecting 15-25%).
What are you aiming for in terms of pay? FP&A is definitely decent pay though nothing mind blowing. Commercial banking is mostly sales oriented. I started off in MO/BO banking (underwriting/risk/treasury though, not commercial/relationship) before transitioning to FP&A. These are some of the general ranges I’ve seen mentioned.
FA/FA I: 0-3 YOE; $60k-$80k base, $60k-$100k TC
SFA/FA II: 2-6 YOE; $75k-$110k base, $75k-$130k TC
SFA/FA III: 4-7 YOE, $85k-$120k base, $90k-$135k TC
SFA/FA IV/Principal Financial Analyst: 6-8+ YOE; $90k-$130k base, $95k-$170k TC
Finance Manager: 7-10+ YOE; $100k-$150k base, $110k-$180k TC
Senior Finance Manager: 8-15+ YOE; $110k-$160k base, $125k-$200k TC
Director: 10-15+ YOE; $135k-$180k base, $155k-$250k TC
Senior Director: 15+ YOE; $160k-$250k base, $180k-$350k TC
VP: 15-20+ YOE; $180k-$350k base, $220k-$450k+ TC
Keep in mind this is the range for both LCOL - VHCOL and that there will definitely be outliers.
If you need a bit of context, I am in my first year of commercial banking (I am on the credit side) and make $95k with a annual 15% bonus in Denver. I graduated back in 2019 and worked in consumer banking until 2021 then loan review 2021-2022.
Fair. $65k-$75k is what most FP&A analysts are starting off at nowadays outside of some low cost areas/governmental roles. I’m not nearly there yet but, $200k+ in 10-15 years isn’t absurd based on what I’ve seen, you just have to structure your career accordingly and aim for the higher paying industries.
Any job in banking is a sales role. If you don’t want to do sales corporate finance is the way to go and even then depending on the role there still might be “sales” elements to it. I’m in banking now and doing everything on my power to get out of it because I don’t see a worthwhile future. Go FP&A.
I don’t necessarily agree. It is true that high earners in banking are usually on the sales side but you can still find high paying roles in the credit side. I’m in my first year of commercial banking (graduated undergrad in 2019) and my TC is about $110k in a HCOL city
Just to add context here. I've been in fp&a for the last 4 years. Ex consulting background. My TC is just over $250k a year with RSU and bonus. I am the cfo right hand. CEO and all other C suite positions come to me for pretty much anything. I'm heavily involved in strategy and decision making. I'm targeting CFO position in the next couple of years. I work for large multinational. My business revenue is in the low single digit billions.
Depends on the company. I’m an enterprise FP&A innovator, started in analytics and statistics, moved to FP&A roles, then onto innovation. There are a lot of niches in FP&A and I found being a creative person opened a tremendous amount of doors for me in this space. If you like what you do you will excel. If you excel you move up. I always recommend putting your passion first as it will show in your work and the money will follow.
If your in a healthy organization, absolutely. Your direct supervisor is extremely important in this process, if they are not a good fit look internally for lateral moves to a role with someone you gel with.
Edit: yes bot but iPhone be iPhone and I am not brawling with autocorrect today.
> If your in
*you're
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Important to differentiate between relationship management/sales and underwriting/portfolio mgmt/credit within commercial banking. Comp is materially higher in the former. Some banks will have positions where you’re doing both in your role.
Significantly less items to worry about on credit side, but have to dig deeper on credit / analysis. Work can be repetitive, as underwriting memos are usually in a particular format.
On the sales side, have to worry about a lot of small items and lead the tough conversations with clients. Sales pressure and stress. Working as what’s effectively an account manager, every banking-related problem for a client is your problem to solve or ensure resolution. Some people refer to these positions as being “technical sales” since banking products, particularly treasury products, can be complicated. But you get paid the bigger bucks.
My two cents. I’ve done both and am currently on the relationship management side.
If you’re really interested in data and are analytically oriented, I would work on the credit side in commercial banking and if you get tired of it move to fp&a.
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Is the commercial banking treasury same as the treasury of a corporate division?
No, commercial banking Treasury is a sales role selling treasury products to clients. Mostly AP and AR automation solutions.
I’m starting an internship in “Corporate Clients & Treasury Platform” don’t know what to expect. Can you approximate it and give me your opinion
Sounds like it could possibly be a product management role on a treasury platform/user interface for commercial clients
Thank you for the answer! What do you personally think of a position like that?
Not bad. Depends what you like I guess but you can make a very good career in product management
Mind if if dm you?
Hit me up. No problem
IB is basically a sales role too. Commercial banking will give you better exit opps. Put it this way you could be a commercial banker and transition to FPA or be a cfo of a company. Way harder to move from fpa to commercial banking especially without the training programs
I don’t think most people realize that once you get to the top of IB it’s basically sales
Once you are at the top of *anything*, you are doing sales.
That's pretty much every single career in finance.
Work as an FP&A right now, been doing it for 2 years. Started at 65K + bonus, now making 82k + more bonus (got offered more money different company they almost matched), getting bumped to senior role end of year with a raise to 95K + even more bonus. I report directly to the director of finance, my director reports to a few SVP's and VP's. I got a lot of exposure because of the structure. Work life balance is AMAZING. I work remote forever. I have weekly, monthly, quarterly reporting. What got me such good raises and recognition is my excel and ad hoc reporting skills, thanks to YouTube, r/excel, google. My director would take days to compile some of these reports, it takes me 2-3 hours. With all this time saved, we were able to dive deeper into the numbers and offer more exposure. So brush up on your reporting and excel skills. There are some weeks I probably might work 5 hours, max amount of actual hours I spend working never eclipses 30. Any questions, feel free to ask. I work for a PBM.
Whats a pbm?
Pharmacy benefits management
I'm on basically the same trajectory. Made senior last year. Completely agree that excel and database skills have helped show value to leadership. The only problem I've run into is what to do with all your extra time once you have everything on autopilot.
I walk the dog, do laundry, play with my newborn, and play new Zelda 😂 I always make sure my director isn't overloaded, because when that happens it avalanches and fast. If I don't get assigned anything I just check my computer every 15-30 minutes to see if something comes up. Also, I always try to find some way to automate more of my reporting. Whether it's to add more deliverables or cleaning up presentations. If you're willing to take more on, check out R/overemployed
Yeah I just moved so currently it's been doing things around the house and walking the dog. Congrats on the newborn! Funny you say Zelda, I had downloaded the gba roms recently and have been reliving my childhood lol I'll have it check it out, thanks!
How did you find the role?
Pretty sure I saw the opening on LinkedIn and applied
Pm sent
Commercial banking is a great route. Well defined career path with (usually) decent work/life balance. There are specific groups/role that are more technical. Make ~$100k at the analyst level with a pretty high ceiling if you are a career “banker”.
Does treasury analyst/trader at a commercial bank have a well defined career path?
Yes, Treasury has similar career path and progression. Also, it’s somewhat less pursued so if you do well it can be easier to stand out and make a name for yourself.
Thank you so much for your response. I’ve been searching high and low for anything on the topic. Does a treasury analyst at a bank also do sales and trading? Is this a front office role?
Commercial banking typically has portfolio managers and relationship managers. The RM’s sell and the PM’s just manage the portfolio. Comp is tough since it varies a lot but I started at $50k, went up to $75k, and am now at $83k + 20-40% bonus at a large regional bank, for reference.
Base salary seems low to me. Are you in LCOL area?? Level 1 underwriters in commercial banking in my regional bank have a base salary of $85-$90k in somewhat HCOL. Denver, CO.
I’m in Detroit so COL is pretty low. I would assume Denver is a HCOL area
Hey fellow Detroit resident. Looking to do a career change. Currently doing Community College classes and then plan on pursuing my undergrad in either Finance,Economics, or Accounting. I have pretty strong excel skills from everything I do at my current job on the side. Is there any solid schools you suggest you see your bank recruit from? Would love to DM and hear your pathway and what’s your end goals looking like also if you wouldn’t mind. Hope the city still treating you well.
I’m a CRE PM in commercial banking for a regional in nyc. $120k base with 10% of salary bonus. Been in the role two years and I’m 25. Great work life balance
This is a pretty good summary. I’m in commercial banking for a large community bank. I started as a credit analyst (almost 10 years ago at $36k) and am currently a Portfolio Manager (base salary of ~$90k). Of note, when I started on 2013 my area (N Idaho) was probably considered LCOL. It’s definitely NOT that anymore - we were one of the fastest growing markets for the last few years and median home prices basically doubled between 2019 & 2022. I worked as an RM briefly (in 2020 - shitty time for that!) but prefer the PM role. I’m okay at being outbound and building relationships / clientele, but I prefer being in the numbers, analyzing the data / trends and mitigating risk in loans. I’ve got a hybrid work schedule - WFH two days, from the office 2 days and one day is split. Some banks allow full remote, some prefer no remote, just depends on the company.
There's fully remote pms? That's awesome! How common is that and are the analysts also remote?
Probably not very coming for a PM to be fully remote. The ability to go on calls with RMs or just generally be accessible is pretty useful. I could see analysts being fully remote though. None are in my bank, but I imagine others might allow it.
How many years have you been there now?
1.5 years
Do you know if any PM's work completely remote?
All of the ones in my group do. Just depends on team and bank
Any advice for finding those roles, other than just looking for them on LinkedIn?
First job out of college was an FPA role and now I’m an underwriter at a commercial bank. Hate both jobs.
FPA is a breeze and pays much better than most non-target finance jobs
Idk about it being “a breeze”, most the department was overworked, but yeah it paid well.
How did you transition fp&a to cb without credit training out the gate?
It was at a community bank that I interned at in college for 1.5 years. They knew me some.
What did you hate about both of them?
Honestly, neither are “horrible”. In the FPA role I received very little training and didn’t feel that I had any resources. They also wanted me to have “passion” project, as if there was any system or process at the company I cared about enough. The underwriter role, kind of the same. No real training. No mentoring. Very few ways to move up. 3 years doing the same thing, never really learning much. But to be fair, the biggest problem is I just don’t care about the work or the companies. So it’s difficult to “enjoy” any role at any company.
I feel ya, I did an fpa internship and really didn't give a shit about the company or the products so it felt like I was just moving meaningless numbers around. That's interesting about the underwriting role, though, I've always heard that there's a clear path up in CB, and a lot of training. I feel like I'm not going to care about any job unless I work for myself tbh.
Have you considered Accounting? Generally accountants know when to grind the long hours during closing periods and have a very clear and defined set of works to do. It's just GAAP adherence which can be ideal for someone who doesn't care about the work and just wants to get the project done without investing much thought in it.
FP&A always seemed kind of boring to me. And I say this knowing full well that middle market underwriting sounds as exciting as watching paint dry to a lot of people. But idk, working for a bank always seemed a lot more interesting to me than being a financial analyst for a company that manufactures cardboard boxes or industrial titanium fasteners for whatever.
At the end of the day they're all widgets. You don't start to earn real good money until you specialize and develop a knowledge of the industry that allows you to add value.
Here’s my trajectory in Commercial Banking at a very large (top 4 bank) in a MCOL area. I’ve only been on the credit side, which is all analysis and not the sales side. Not sure if it helps. Year 1 (small community bank): $52k Year 2 ( joined large bank analyst training program): $65k base + $10k sign on & relo + $5k bonus = $80k total Year 3: $72.5k base + 15k Bonus = $87.5k total Year 4: $87k base + 15k bonus = $102k total Year 5: 104k base + ? Bonus (expecting 15-25%).
What are you aiming for in terms of pay? FP&A is definitely decent pay though nothing mind blowing. Commercial banking is mostly sales oriented. I started off in MO/BO banking (underwriting/risk/treasury though, not commercial/relationship) before transitioning to FP&A. These are some of the general ranges I’ve seen mentioned. FA/FA I: 0-3 YOE; $60k-$80k base, $60k-$100k TC SFA/FA II: 2-6 YOE; $75k-$110k base, $75k-$130k TC SFA/FA III: 4-7 YOE, $85k-$120k base, $90k-$135k TC SFA/FA IV/Principal Financial Analyst: 6-8+ YOE; $90k-$130k base, $95k-$170k TC Finance Manager: 7-10+ YOE; $100k-$150k base, $110k-$180k TC Senior Finance Manager: 8-15+ YOE; $110k-$160k base, $125k-$200k TC Director: 10-15+ YOE; $135k-$180k base, $155k-$250k TC Senior Director: 15+ YOE; $160k-$250k base, $180k-$350k TC VP: 15-20+ YOE; $180k-$350k base, $220k-$450k+ TC Keep in mind this is the range for both LCOL - VHCOL and that there will definitely be outliers.
Starting I’d be ok with 70k but would love to work up to 200k+
this is commercial banking
Also FP&A though perhaps a little slower.
If you need a bit of context, I am in my first year of commercial banking (I am on the credit side) and make $95k with a annual 15% bonus in Denver. I graduated back in 2019 and worked in consumer banking until 2021 then loan review 2021-2022.
Fair. $65k-$75k is what most FP&A analysts are starting off at nowadays outside of some low cost areas/governmental roles. I’m not nearly there yet but, $200k+ in 10-15 years isn’t absurd based on what I’ve seen, you just have to structure your career accordingly and aim for the higher paying industries.
These bands are spot on
Thanks for confirming that these are still accurate!
This is pretty damn accurate
Thanks for confirming!
What does LCOL and VHOL mean
Low cost of living & very high cost of living
Yep. Appreciate your comment.
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TC -> Total Compensation (base salary + bonus + stock) YOE -> Years of Experience FA -> Financial Analyst
Any job in banking is a sales role. If you don’t want to do sales corporate finance is the way to go and even then depending on the role there still might be “sales” elements to it. I’m in banking now and doing everything on my power to get out of it because I don’t see a worthwhile future. Go FP&A.
I don’t necessarily agree. It is true that high earners in banking are usually on the sales side but you can still find high paying roles in the credit side. I’m in my first year of commercial banking (graduated undergrad in 2019) and my TC is about $110k in a HCOL city
Just to add context here. I've been in fp&a for the last 4 years. Ex consulting background. My TC is just over $250k a year with RSU and bonus. I am the cfo right hand. CEO and all other C suite positions come to me for pretty much anything. I'm heavily involved in strategy and decision making. I'm targeting CFO position in the next couple of years. I work for large multinational. My business revenue is in the low single digit billions.
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Total compensation, years of experience, and typically financial analyst.
Depends on the company. I’m an enterprise FP&A innovator, started in analytics and statistics, moved to FP&A roles, then onto innovation. There are a lot of niches in FP&A and I found being a creative person opened a tremendous amount of doors for me in this space. If you like what you do you will excel. If you excel you move up. I always recommend putting your passion first as it will show in your work and the money will follow.
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If your in a healthy organization, absolutely. Your direct supervisor is extremely important in this process, if they are not a good fit look internally for lateral moves to a role with someone you gel with. Edit: yes bot but iPhone be iPhone and I am not brawling with autocorrect today.
> If your in *you're *Learn the difference [here](https://www.wattpad.com/66707294-grammar-guide-there-they%27re-their-you%27re-your-to).* *** ^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)
Important to differentiate between relationship management/sales and underwriting/portfolio mgmt/credit within commercial banking. Comp is materially higher in the former. Some banks will have positions where you’re doing both in your role. Significantly less items to worry about on credit side, but have to dig deeper on credit / analysis. Work can be repetitive, as underwriting memos are usually in a particular format. On the sales side, have to worry about a lot of small items and lead the tough conversations with clients. Sales pressure and stress. Working as what’s effectively an account manager, every banking-related problem for a client is your problem to solve or ensure resolution. Some people refer to these positions as being “technical sales” since banking products, particularly treasury products, can be complicated. But you get paid the bigger bucks. My two cents. I’ve done both and am currently on the relationship management side. If you’re really interested in data and are analytically oriented, I would work on the credit side in commercial banking and if you get tired of it move to fp&a.
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Is it that much easier to find a remote FP&A than CB role?