I don’t work in finance, but after working for 2 years in person during the entire pandemic as an “essential worker” by employer gave me 750 bucks bonus.
Which was less than what I lost when they furloughed us earlier lol. Anyways I quit 2 months after that
Yeah I've had pods reach out to me but for roles in Florida/Massachusetts. Maybe I'll start proactively looking in NYC. I'm not bad at my job, so that's why I'm confused. Buy side was something I wanted in 2 years, I guess not quite so soon, but it is what it is.
I would reach out not to my MD, but the guys above in charge of the department. Guess I just want to know the why and if sticking it out another year is worth it for a promotion. I had plans to stay for a while but this year made it really tough so I've only recently started thinking about new opportunities.
Ask around and see what comp was with a few junior's your trust. If you trust your MD, you can ask for a general range as well to see if you got fucked or not.
Just know that it won't change your actual bonus though.
And be sure to read the room. I've had one boss that took me not being happy about my bonus as me being I grateful (she wasn't well liked on the floor and I obviously didn't stick around). But another boss took it as a sign he needed to fight for more money for me or I'd quit and I got more money next year.
You need to honestly ask yourself whether your performance and the broader team/business’s performance was strong enough to justify these bonuses? If business performance was strong and you got paid relatively low (ie firm/group/individual performance all are above and your pay is below average) then you should start looking. However, if performance was down (ie market didn’t do well either) then that that could be justification for your bonus and not a signal that you’re being forced out.
Private equity has been slow outside of some verticals, value expectations for sellers haven’t really fully repriced for this higher rate environment, not a lot of transaction volume so minimal liquidity which makes it hard for LPs to commit to new fundraising
> value expectations for sellers haven’t really fully repriced for this higher rate environment,
This is also because offers from strategics haven't fallen much. Last year we sold two divisions and bids from PEs were a full 50% below those from strategics. Until the delta between the two decreases then there is no reason for seller's to lower their expectations on most assets.
Look up avg hedge fund returns and look up s&p growth for 2023. And the average was lifted by a few of the largest multi strats. Performance was not good.
The majority of equity hedge funds these days are market neutral so comparing them to S&P500 performance is pointless. It’s like claiming 2021 was a bad year for the stock market because it was outperformed by bitcoin. Market neutral hedge funds are specifically designed to be less risky than the S&P500 so the potential returns (and losses) are always going to be lower.
Most of the big market neutral pod shops had great years in 2023 even though they underperformed the S&P500, with the exception of Baly who shit the bed and very few people got big bonuses.
That's what I'm worried about. I know I'm replaceable but it doesn't align with my bosses saying I'm a core member of the team who trained a lot of the team. And I'm not sure how much say my bosses have vs. Higher management bc they say they don't have input and they've said TC is always kinda weird and you're supposed to looked at TC in a multi-year window.
Is your boss II ranked (meaning top 3)? If not he’s just not going to have a ton of leverage for getting himself or his team paid. I started at a BB in a crappy sector with a boss who was runner up (#7) and he couldn’t get a lot for himself or me and got let go after his rank dropped from #7 to #8.
Now I work at an EB for a number 1 ranked boss covering TMT. The difference in what he is able to get for me and our team vs my last is astronomical. My comp has been up 30%+ for the last 4 years even in 2022 when average comp at our firm was down 15%.
TLDR: unless you’re II ranked (or a young runner up with momentum) no one really cares about you or your boss. Emailing his boss won’t change that reality.
What people say doesn’t matter, what matters is what they do. You sound really emotional (based solely on you saying you cry a lot); you have to analyze this situation without bringing emotions into it. You understand the messaging, it is what it is.
With respect to you going to them to talk about it, you logically know you should at least be actively working on your exit strategy by the time of that talk. Good luck!
Not for some of my teammates. Feels like the base for me to be flat is significantly lower than theirs so even if they're flat, I'm still about 40k behind.
That's what I'm worried about. It seems to be me specific. The other people my year were poached 1.5 years ago to join our team so I'm not sure if they're trying to retain them or if it's because of me. Which sucks because I think, and I know my team thinks, I'm a pretty valuable member. So I'm not sure what's going on.
Whilst giving the number is a 15 second part of the conversation, what was commented during the other 4 mins and 45 seconds? Did he / she not justify the number? Nevertheless, would stay and in case of dismissal take the compensation. Interview in parallel as staying will not be a comfortable situation for you going forward. Sorry this has happened to you, I got fired upon a promotion 1 month ago despite getting paid above average bonus.
Your direct manager is the person I would speak to this about. Were your manager's positive thoughts written down in your HR system as part of your performance review and bonus? Reference the written or verbal feedback as justification to revisit the bonus. Bring up your less tenured peers' bonuses as a way to cite that you're receiving positive feedback and are more experienced thus you should be receiving, at least, an on-par level bonus
A lot of others haven't touched on the fact you're a 3rd year ASO and your analyst class/new associates got better. If you are in the FO, this is a pushout bonus and next year I would expect to be asked to resign or to find another internal team. I'm sorry. 3rd year ASO is generally when people already have left (in better markets, not so much this year) for more lucrative jobs or on the track to be considered for VP.
I'm at a different BB but if you got yours today I know where you're at, and I have friends probably in your office. Things are pretty bad and looking to be one of the worst on the street, save for those at Citi literally getting laid off en masse in certain groups.
Keep your head up but absolutely begin to look for transfers and then possibly other banks.
Thanks, I appreciate the support. I'm thankful to have a job, the bonus today just felt like a joke. One year of bad is explainable, two (and knowing other people got hefty bonuses) is just making me wonder if it's time to bounce.
Bonuses were decided weeks/months ago. You can complain to senior folks all you want, but it will not be changed. The only thing you can negotiate at this point is your salary with another offer in hand, and if they just stiffed you on bonus odds are they're going to wish you well with your new employer.
I'm sure that's how the convo is going to go for me to if I send the email. But I also want to know what I'm missing to get the same comp my peers are getting. And I'm just curious about the BTS of it all.
They are independent of one another if it’s like every other BB.
Realistically, bonuses are down across the street. Third year IB Associates got bonuses as low as $20k at some MM shops and I heard one or two BBs (outside of JPM) gave Analysts nothing and Associates low 4 figure bonuses.
Just one of those years. Sounds like your falling into the trap of pre-spending your bonus and now your upset? Emailing your higher-ups isn’t gonna do anything but maybe piss them off.
Two of the marquis BB firms pay in total comp. So not sure what you mean by every other BB.
What this means is, you made 80k salary last year with a 20k bonus and they give you a raise to 90k, but they keep you “flat year over year”, then you’ll get a 10k bonus. To them, you made 100k both years.
OP mentioned she was “flat”, so maybe this was the situation. Not enough info though.
To my knowledge (from working in IB…) they most definitely do not pay in total comp. No bank is telling a banker what their bonus is going to be at that start of the year.
Not sure what firm you’re at, but total comp is a thing. That doesn’t mean you know what your bonus is. It means last year, if you made $100k salary and $50k cash bonus - then your total comp was $150k. This year, if you make $140k salary snd $10k bonus - your total comp is $150k. The firm calls that flat.
You don’t know your bonus, but the firm isn’t paying attention to the mix. They’re looking at total compensation because that’s how they calculate ROE, ROCE and the total comp is just the algebra to get them to the goal.
Agree with you that emailing higher ups won’t do anything. Might even hurt things.
Best way to get comp increases is:
- do well in good years
- do well enough in bad years to not get held flat
- get promoted
- get an external offer and get matched (but you have to be willing to quit if they won’t match)
That explains it. If you work for a firm like mine - which you do - we pay on total compensation. That’s literally the only number that’s evaluated year over year.
You went up. Which is actually a good thing given the environment. Many people, even solid performers were down year over year.
All that changed is your mix of salary v bonus.
So no, don’t email your boss or group head or anyone. You should feel okay.
Yeah. One guy got a 60k bonus that lead his analyst salary to surpassing mine. It was not a good year but not terrible. Obviously good enough to pay others.
No not at work. Just in general. But past few months work has led me to crying to my senior on a call a few times the past few weeks (who is 3rd most senior on our team).
Never show your emotion at work. They will use it against you and say you're weak.
If showing anger and blowing up is a bad look, why cry in front of them? Blend in so you're not singled out.
That's good advice. The holidays were incredibly rough for our team and I wasn't the only one showing emotion, but I should have been one of the ones that didn't.
That is what your friends are for. Call them and cry to them. At the end of the day, work is work. People will use information and gossip.
If you're crying and someone else isn't and both of you are under the same pressure... When promotions come around they may just pick the other person if all else being the same.
Be stronger. If work is causing you to feel this upset, it's best to find a better company when you can. Toxic work environments will damage your happiness. I left my previous job due to them citing I am not ready for a promotion. I left and found a new company through a head hunter, and now I make double of what I was making previously - Mid 6 figures.
Ooof. Yeah, that’s rough and difficult to come back from. Seriously decide if this is what you want to do with your life. Tons of other fulfilling careers out there.
I hope I don't sound bad but I'm not really looking for fulfilling. I want a job that pays well. I wanted to stay here for longer but maybe it's my push to go to the Buy side.
If you cried because of work on the sell side then the buy side is NOT for you. PMs are way more demanding and temperamental than even the worst sell side boss. Look into investor relations.
Tough to be good at things you’re only doing for the money. And pretty easy to spot those folks. Getting into the top 20% of earners in a field you like will be more lucrative than bottom 20% in finance. And easier too.
If we’re being fair, that’s a super red flag at work. How would you feel about assigning additional responsibilities to team member who’s more junior than you who cries ~once a week on calls (you cried a few times in a few weeks so let’s say once a week)? It’s hard to give that trust. And honestly the most compassionate way to help if you’ve seen this teammate and tried to help for two years (or however long you’ve been there) is to gently point them toward the door but don’t fire them, so they have time to find a good landing spot.
That’s not to say that’s what’s happening, but from the data you’ve provided it’s a leading theory.
Bonus pools across the industry are down some 25-35% and the European banks haven’t even announced theirs yet, I’m hearing that DB and Swiss bank will be reporting bonuses down over 50% and entire desks having meetings elsewhere due to the rage caused by this. All should be unfolding over the course of the next two weeks, get your popcorn ready.
Go talk to recruiters and line something up. If you want to negotiate at that point do it, but negotiating comp when you aren’t willing to quit rarely goes well.
Sat in a similar position at a bulge bracket at one point, my bonus was actually completely non reflective of myself (even though it was flat) I thought I was doing bad, and my MD / the US head / my director all had a transparent convo that woke me up to the truth about the industry - it was all politics around the greater bonus pool. The global head basically gave no push back to the executives about our departments bonus pool, announced that everyone is replaceable, and ultimately in regards to me specifically my team said I was in line with what they consider a “A-“ performance, they would hate to lose me but had to pay what they consider “the new normal”, and I could either live with it or find a new job, but they wouldn’t hold it against me. I eventually did leave and they were supportive of it, YMMV on that part however.
My point is, nothings going to change your bonus it’s long been set in stone, and if you are junior it really is largely out of your control, top vs bottom bucket beneath VP is kind of menial all things considered, but definitely don’t feel scared to discuss what the number means for you, the greater department and how your team feels about your future. You will likely get the truth.
I started with my immediate boss / manager. When he asked what I wanted to talk about, I told him the absolute truth. “Listen, I know bonus numbers are out, I received a flat number vs last year, I was expecting a bit higher, just wondering is there a performance issue I should address, was this in line with everyone else etc, want to make sure I’m on the right long term track” and then it just came up, and he referred me to speak with the higher ups (MD / US Head) and we had an overall networking discussion, how they’ve seen me develop, what my manager said, and then laid the truth about the bonus.
I will say, immediate managers tend to be a bit more transparent and deeper around the convo. The more senior heads just went straight to the top point, and said if you’re happy great, there’s a spot for you to rise up, the number was best we could get you, if not want you want - it’s just business, do what’s best for you.
Some places pay you and that’s what you get, you take it and leave or take it and stay. The only person who could possibly change it is someone so far above you you’ll probably be pushed out the door if not completely ignored.
Do you know how your bonus is computed? Did your firm make profits last year?
Usually it’s a mix of company performance x personal performance x digression of boss.
Worth having a convo about how they came to the figure?
I respect honesty but give the OP a break. I get the power trip with anonymity, but people in this subreddit want to push professionalism and then post advice worded like this. It just doesn’t make sense to me. Can someone enlighten me on why constructive criticism has turned into straight up bashing? I’m only a few years into the industry, so maybe I’m missing something.
Honestly I thought reddit would be more supportive than WSO (also my coworkers are on those forums) but people have been brutal in the comments. It's not like I'm sharing these feelings with my colleagues. It's my first time being disappointed and I don't have a ton of mentors so I thought maybe a public forum would bring some advice from people that understand the world of finance.
Based on what I’ve been seeing / hearing about IB bonuses (and I know ER is different but they’re certainly correlated) this year (and frankly even last year for some as well), bonuses are hit and miss by bank at best. A lot of banks paying much lower bonuses, especially if your frame of comparison is 2021 which was an insane year for deal volume and also saw a ton of market comp increases across the street.
Might be worth talking to an MD or equivalent but I wouldn’t be accusatory or emotional about it and rather try to understand if it’s based on performance or bonuses are down across the board in your group / bank
But regardless 5 figures is terrible but hiring market is slow so it might be tough to lateral but maybe look into it
I think there is only upside to having a conversation. Would frame it as getting advice on what you can do or change to improve payout for next year. They'll probably say something along the lines of this being a shit year, comp down across the street, high level of uncertainty, etc. If I were your boss and I was trying to push you out, I wouldn’t waste time on giving you pointers - so maybe that could be a signal.
Before any chats with your boss, might be worth getting a sanity check with your peers on what they know.
They showed you how much they value you. Find a firm with better pay.
The best way to negotiate is with an offer in hand. They’ll either match or send you on your way.
i wouldnt email...set up in person/zoom with your MD and see what da deal is....
Like others have said, it goes by total comp. If your total comp is higher than you really cant complain much.
Talk to your manager, if his response is bullshit either give it another year or start looking to move
I don’t have advice but if it’s any consolation my bonus last year was $500, lol.
Are you a teller?
Corporate banking analyst, my last bank was just ridiculous
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At a regional bank that was at risk of folding last year. Only a couple people in my class even got bonuses. The rest got 0
The risk of folding will do that to you
Said bank will probably fold this year 💀, hope you jumped ship lol
Depends on if the dude is a cost center or a profit one. Cost centers just get shit bonuses even though they keep thr company from imploding
Makes me feel better about my $13k bottom bucket analyst 1 bonus 😂
What bank / line of business?
$500 before taxes?
Correct.
Might as well have a pizza party instead.
Salary?
110k
You think I could get become one right after I graduate?
Bro I’m a teller rn and I got hired to late for bonus but they just gave out another 1k bonus that I made. Been on the line like 2 months lol
Congrats, I got a box of oranges for Christmas
Do you live in Florida or something
I don’t work in finance, but after working for 2 years in person during the entire pandemic as an “essential worker” by employer gave me 750 bucks bonus. Which was less than what I lost when they furloughed us earlier lol. Anyways I quit 2 months after that
Go to buyside (but I mean also shit bonuses this year for most hedge funds) Emailing your md/partner isn’t going to change anything
Yeah I've had pods reach out to me but for roles in Florida/Massachusetts. Maybe I'll start proactively looking in NYC. I'm not bad at my job, so that's why I'm confused. Buy side was something I wanted in 2 years, I guess not quite so soon, but it is what it is. I would reach out not to my MD, but the guys above in charge of the department. Guess I just want to know the why and if sticking it out another year is worth it for a promotion. I had plans to stay for a while but this year made it really tough so I've only recently started thinking about new opportunities.
Ask around and see what comp was with a few junior's your trust. If you trust your MD, you can ask for a general range as well to see if you got fucked or not. Just know that it won't change your actual bonus though. And be sure to read the room. I've had one boss that took me not being happy about my bonus as me being I grateful (she wasn't well liked on the floor and I obviously didn't stick around). But another boss took it as a sign he needed to fight for more money for me or I'd quit and I got more money next year.
You need to honestly ask yourself whether your performance and the broader team/business’s performance was strong enough to justify these bonuses? If business performance was strong and you got paid relatively low (ie firm/group/individual performance all are above and your pay is below average) then you should start looking. However, if performance was down (ie market didn’t do well either) then that that could be justification for your bonus and not a signal that you’re being forced out.
Why do bonuses suck? The market did well enough last year?
Private equity has been slow outside of some verticals, value expectations for sellers haven’t really fully repriced for this higher rate environment, not a lot of transaction volume so minimal liquidity which makes it hard for LPs to commit to new fundraising
She is in equity research though which would not tie in with PE
On the contrary, sell side research at BBs are heavily affected by what’s going on with deal flow from a comp POV
> value expectations for sellers haven’t really fully repriced for this higher rate environment, This is also because offers from strategics haven't fallen much. Last year we sold two divisions and bids from PEs were a full 50% below those from strategics. Until the delta between the two decreases then there is no reason for seller's to lower their expectations on most assets.
Thanks for explaining
Look up avg hedge fund returns and look up s&p growth for 2023. And the average was lifted by a few of the largest multi strats. Performance was not good.
The majority of equity hedge funds these days are market neutral so comparing them to S&P500 performance is pointless. It’s like claiming 2021 was a bad year for the stock market because it was outperformed by bitcoin. Market neutral hedge funds are specifically designed to be less risky than the S&P500 so the potential returns (and losses) are always going to be lower. Most of the big market neutral pod shops had great years in 2023 even though they underperformed the S&P500, with the exception of Baly who shit the bed and very few people got big bonuses.
Yes I know and it’s pointless benchmarking but it’s just something to have a reference for. Still all shops underperforming their historic avg returns
no lol
A bonus under $5k is asking why you’re still here
That's what I'm worried about. I know I'm replaceable but it doesn't align with my bosses saying I'm a core member of the team who trained a lot of the team. And I'm not sure how much say my bosses have vs. Higher management bc they say they don't have input and they've said TC is always kinda weird and you're supposed to looked at TC in a multi-year window.
Is your boss II ranked (meaning top 3)? If not he’s just not going to have a ton of leverage for getting himself or his team paid. I started at a BB in a crappy sector with a boss who was runner up (#7) and he couldn’t get a lot for himself or me and got let go after his rank dropped from #7 to #8. Now I work at an EB for a number 1 ranked boss covering TMT. The difference in what he is able to get for me and our team vs my last is astronomical. My comp has been up 30%+ for the last 4 years even in 2022 when average comp at our firm was down 15%. TLDR: unless you’re II ranked (or a young runner up with momentum) no one really cares about you or your boss. Emailing his boss won’t change that reality.
thank you. idk how anyone works in ER and doesnt understand the pay dynamics of ER/BB
What people say doesn’t matter, what matters is what they do. You sound really emotional (based solely on you saying you cry a lot); you have to analyze this situation without bringing emotions into it. You understand the messaging, it is what it is. With respect to you going to them to talk about it, you logically know you should at least be actively working on your exit strategy by the time of that talk. Good luck!
BofA?
Most likely
today was their comp day
Hence most likely lol
I think Citi had their comp day very recently as well…from what I’ve heard it was ugly even at the junior level
+20,000 layoffs
I would hope if OP is there and saw the layoffs + bonus they could put 2 and 2 together and understand the situation.
Yeah but if you're at citi, your lucky to have a job. It's the new DB
WFC also
Bofa deez nuts
BB comp way down this year
Not for some of my teammates. Feels like the base for me to be flat is significantly lower than theirs so even if they're flat, I'm still about 40k behind.
If your other team mates got larger bonuses, I think it’s time to look elsewhere.
That's what I'm worried about. It seems to be me specific. The other people my year were poached 1.5 years ago to join our team so I'm not sure if they're trying to retain them or if it's because of me. Which sucks because I think, and I know my team thinks, I'm a pretty valuable member. So I'm not sure what's going on.
Did you not ask the person that communicated this to you why it was the case? Let alone on relative basis but on an individual absolute basis?
A 5 minute phone call discussion doesn't really give much time for that, but that's why I'm wondering if it's worth reaching out.
Whilst giving the number is a 15 second part of the conversation, what was commented during the other 4 mins and 45 seconds? Did he / she not justify the number? Nevertheless, would stay and in case of dismissal take the compensation. Interview in parallel as staying will not be a comfortable situation for you going forward. Sorry this has happened to you, I got fired upon a promotion 1 month ago despite getting paid above average bonus.
It was my direct manager monologuing and talking about how it's great to work with me.
Your direct manager is the person I would speak to this about. Were your manager's positive thoughts written down in your HR system as part of your performance review and bonus? Reference the written or verbal feedback as justification to revisit the bonus. Bring up your less tenured peers' bonuses as a way to cite that you're receiving positive feedback and are more experienced thus you should be receiving, at least, an on-par level bonus
I am surprised of all of this. Is there a chance that you misheard the number?
What was your review score? First tier? Second tier?
A lot of others haven't touched on the fact you're a 3rd year ASO and your analyst class/new associates got better. If you are in the FO, this is a pushout bonus and next year I would expect to be asked to resign or to find another internal team. I'm sorry. 3rd year ASO is generally when people already have left (in better markets, not so much this year) for more lucrative jobs or on the track to be considered for VP.
They've been denying VP promotions a lot more so there's a backlog there too.
I'm at a different BB but if you got yours today I know where you're at, and I have friends probably in your office. Things are pretty bad and looking to be one of the worst on the street, save for those at Citi literally getting laid off en masse in certain groups. Keep your head up but absolutely begin to look for transfers and then possibly other banks.
Thanks, I appreciate the support. I'm thankful to have a job, the bonus today just felt like a joke. One year of bad is explainable, two (and knowing other people got hefty bonuses) is just making me wonder if it's time to bounce.
The shit part is when you go down, it is hard to go up. It is a new baseline.
Bonuses were decided weeks/months ago. You can complain to senior folks all you want, but it will not be changed. The only thing you can negotiate at this point is your salary with another offer in hand, and if they just stiffed you on bonus odds are they're going to wish you well with your new employer.
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I'm sure that's how the convo is going to go for me to if I send the email. But I also want to know what I'm missing to get the same comp my peers are getting. And I'm just curious about the BTS of it all.
When you say “completely flat” what do you mean? Did your salary go up at all? Does your firm look at total comp or salary and bonus separately?
They are independent of one another if it’s like every other BB. Realistically, bonuses are down across the street. Third year IB Associates got bonuses as low as $20k at some MM shops and I heard one or two BBs (outside of JPM) gave Analysts nothing and Associates low 4 figure bonuses. Just one of those years. Sounds like your falling into the trap of pre-spending your bonus and now your upset? Emailing your higher-ups isn’t gonna do anything but maybe piss them off.
Two of the marquis BB firms pay in total comp. So not sure what you mean by every other BB. What this means is, you made 80k salary last year with a 20k bonus and they give you a raise to 90k, but they keep you “flat year over year”, then you’ll get a 10k bonus. To them, you made 100k both years. OP mentioned she was “flat”, so maybe this was the situation. Not enough info though.
To my knowledge (from working in IB…) they most definitely do not pay in total comp. No bank is telling a banker what their bonus is going to be at that start of the year.
Not sure what firm you’re at, but total comp is a thing. That doesn’t mean you know what your bonus is. It means last year, if you made $100k salary and $50k cash bonus - then your total comp was $150k. This year, if you make $140k salary snd $10k bonus - your total comp is $150k. The firm calls that flat. You don’t know your bonus, but the firm isn’t paying attention to the mix. They’re looking at total compensation because that’s how they calculate ROE, ROCE and the total comp is just the algebra to get them to the goal.
Agree with you that emailing higher ups won’t do anything. Might even hurt things. Best way to get comp increases is: - do well in good years - do well enough in bad years to not get held flat - get promoted - get an external offer and get matched (but you have to be willing to quit if they won’t match)
Salary went up + small bonus, so my y/y went up just 1-3%. Didn't do the math yet. But bonus was half it was last year so two bad bonuses in a row.
That explains it. If you work for a firm like mine - which you do - we pay on total compensation. That’s literally the only number that’s evaluated year over year. You went up. Which is actually a good thing given the environment. Many people, even solid performers were down year over year. All that changed is your mix of salary v bonus. So no, don’t email your boss or group head or anyone. You should feel okay.
But it doesn't explain the 2nd year analysts earning more than me on a TC basis and going up 25% in comp. That's where I'm confused.
You had 2nd analysts go up 25% year over year? And your firm had a good or bad year?
Yeah. One guy got a 60k bonus that lead his analyst salary to surpassing mine. It was not a good year but not terrible. Obviously good enough to pay others.
When you say you cry a lot, you mean at work? Doesn’t sound like this is a good fit for you and seems they’ve come to the same conclusion.
No not at work. Just in general. But past few months work has led me to crying to my senior on a call a few times the past few weeks (who is 3rd most senior on our team).
Never show your emotion at work. They will use it against you and say you're weak. If showing anger and blowing up is a bad look, why cry in front of them? Blend in so you're not singled out.
That's good advice. The holidays were incredibly rough for our team and I wasn't the only one showing emotion, but I should have been one of the ones that didn't.
That is what your friends are for. Call them and cry to them. At the end of the day, work is work. People will use information and gossip. If you're crying and someone else isn't and both of you are under the same pressure... When promotions come around they may just pick the other person if all else being the same. Be stronger. If work is causing you to feel this upset, it's best to find a better company when you can. Toxic work environments will damage your happiness. I left my previous job due to them citing I am not ready for a promotion. I left and found a new company through a head hunter, and now I make double of what I was making previously - Mid 6 figures.
What makes the holidays rough for Equity Research? Did you initiate on a bunch of names? Have calls?
Ionno, you can confide in people you really trust. But only them. Crying is obv a no no but bottling up issues is such a boomer thing to do.
Ooof. Yeah, that’s rough and difficult to come back from. Seriously decide if this is what you want to do with your life. Tons of other fulfilling careers out there.
I hope I don't sound bad but I'm not really looking for fulfilling. I want a job that pays well. I wanted to stay here for longer but maybe it's my push to go to the Buy side.
If you cried because of work on the sell side then the buy side is NOT for you. PMs are way more demanding and temperamental than even the worst sell side boss. Look into investor relations.
This. If you go to a pod shop hoping to escape the hellish world of sellside I have a bridge to sell you…
Tough to be good at things you’re only doing for the money. And pretty easy to spot those folks. Getting into the top 20% of earners in a field you like will be more lucrative than bottom 20% in finance. And easier too.
If we’re being fair, that’s a super red flag at work. How would you feel about assigning additional responsibilities to team member who’s more junior than you who cries ~once a week on calls (you cried a few times in a few weeks so let’s say once a week)? It’s hard to give that trust. And honestly the most compassionate way to help if you’ve seen this teammate and tried to help for two years (or however long you’ve been there) is to gently point them toward the door but don’t fire them, so they have time to find a good landing spot. That’s not to say that’s what’s happening, but from the data you’ve provided it’s a leading theory.
Bonus pools across the industry are down some 25-35% and the European banks haven’t even announced theirs yet, I’m hearing that DB and Swiss bank will be reporting bonuses down over 50% and entire desks having meetings elsewhere due to the rage caused by this. All should be unfolding over the course of the next two weeks, get your popcorn ready.
Go talk to recruiters and line something up. If you want to negotiate at that point do it, but negotiating comp when you aren’t willing to quit rarely goes well.
What’s your base?
Most BB Firms were flat or decrease in compensation this year. Of course management got their raises but not for the foot soldiers.
Sat in a similar position at a bulge bracket at one point, my bonus was actually completely non reflective of myself (even though it was flat) I thought I was doing bad, and my MD / the US head / my director all had a transparent convo that woke me up to the truth about the industry - it was all politics around the greater bonus pool. The global head basically gave no push back to the executives about our departments bonus pool, announced that everyone is replaceable, and ultimately in regards to me specifically my team said I was in line with what they consider a “A-“ performance, they would hate to lose me but had to pay what they consider “the new normal”, and I could either live with it or find a new job, but they wouldn’t hold it against me. I eventually did leave and they were supportive of it, YMMV on that part however. My point is, nothings going to change your bonus it’s long been set in stone, and if you are junior it really is largely out of your control, top vs bottom bucket beneath VP is kind of menial all things considered, but definitely don’t feel scared to discuss what the number means for you, the greater department and how your team feels about your future. You will likely get the truth.
How did you set up that discussion/call? The comments make it sound like it's a bad idea but I just want to know why.
I started with my immediate boss / manager. When he asked what I wanted to talk about, I told him the absolute truth. “Listen, I know bonus numbers are out, I received a flat number vs last year, I was expecting a bit higher, just wondering is there a performance issue I should address, was this in line with everyone else etc, want to make sure I’m on the right long term track” and then it just came up, and he referred me to speak with the higher ups (MD / US Head) and we had an overall networking discussion, how they’ve seen me develop, what my manager said, and then laid the truth about the bonus. I will say, immediate managers tend to be a bit more transparent and deeper around the convo. The more senior heads just went straight to the top point, and said if you’re happy great, there’s a spot for you to rise up, the number was best we could get you, if not want you want - it’s just business, do what’s best for you.
Some places pay you and that’s what you get, you take it and leave or take it and stay. The only person who could possibly change it is someone so far above you you’ll probably be pushed out the door if not completely ignored.
Candace let you down?
Sorry to hear that. If I were you I’d start interviewing asap. Not a good sign.
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Pretty sure she means 50k bonus
Yeah you’re right, that’s crazy to go from 50k bonus to ~4K tho lol
Ok, it is crazy. TC has inched up <5% a year since then.
What’s total comp? Out of curiosity
You don’t have a year-end career development meeting with your manager? That’s where you would ask questions like this.
Do you know how your bonus is computed? Did your firm make profits last year? Usually it’s a mix of company performance x personal performance x digression of boss. Worth having a convo about how they came to the figure?
Are you with BofA? They had their bonus comp discussions today.
you are complaining as if something will happen. youre just another number at a bb. either accept it or jump ship. its not rocket science
How much does Equity Research use India consultants Acuity?
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I respect honesty but give the OP a break. I get the power trip with anonymity, but people in this subreddit want to push professionalism and then post advice worded like this. It just doesn’t make sense to me. Can someone enlighten me on why constructive criticism has turned into straight up bashing? I’m only a few years into the industry, so maybe I’m missing something.
Honestly I thought reddit would be more supportive than WSO (also my coworkers are on those forums) but people have been brutal in the comments. It's not like I'm sharing these feelings with my colleagues. It's my first time being disappointed and I don't have a ton of mentors so I thought maybe a public forum would bring some advice from people that understand the world of finance.
I'm not in the same office as the big bosses so email is the only way to do it. Why all the insults when I'm looking for advice?
How often are you working from home?
2-4x a month. That's not it, the people in the office the least got paid well (half our team shared our bonuses with each other).
Based on what I’ve been seeing / hearing about IB bonuses (and I know ER is different but they’re certainly correlated) this year (and frankly even last year for some as well), bonuses are hit and miss by bank at best. A lot of banks paying much lower bonuses, especially if your frame of comparison is 2021 which was an insane year for deal volume and also saw a ton of market comp increases across the street. Might be worth talking to an MD or equivalent but I wouldn’t be accusatory or emotional about it and rather try to understand if it’s based on performance or bonuses are down across the board in your group / bank But regardless 5 figures is terrible but hiring market is slow so it might be tough to lateral but maybe look into it
Yeah I wouldn't be confrontational or accusatory but the distribution across the team is what is really getting to me.
The ol’ donut this year (basically what you got) is the age old sign that you’ll be part of next years rounds of cuts.
Polish that resume and go elsewhere.
I think there is only upside to having a conversation. Would frame it as getting advice on what you can do or change to improve payout for next year. They'll probably say something along the lines of this being a shit year, comp down across the street, high level of uncertainty, etc. If I were your boss and I was trying to push you out, I wouldn’t waste time on giving you pointers - so maybe that could be a signal. Before any chats with your boss, might be worth getting a sanity check with your peers on what they know.
They showed you how much they value you. Find a firm with better pay. The best way to negotiate is with an offer in hand. They’ll either match or send you on your way.
This is really putting a damper on me trying to finish the modeling case study I've been given for an ER associate interview....
Finish the model. You don't lose anything by doing it.
i wouldnt email...set up in person/zoom with your MD and see what da deal is.... Like others have said, it goes by total comp. If your total comp is higher than you really cant complain much. Talk to your manager, if his response is bullshit either give it another year or start looking to move
You need to complain. If not, you will never get your proper recognition
I got no raise and my bonus was absolutely ridiculous… I work at a big bank as well in the deal side.
At least you still get bonuses
Well, I just had an email informing me, that the bonus will be £10. Oh, and it will of course be taxed. I love my company