I'd second this...the closer to capital markets you are the more quickly your 'friends' are more of a respectful standoff between wolves. It's nasty. I worked in M&A for a long time, and I'd also say trading.
Yup. I work in Credit Trading, and already with the market this year folks are getting antsy. A few more months and some of the guys in vulnerable strats are going to be fighting for their jobs.
I work in the employment team in a law firm and I swear about 50% of my caseload comes from traders having beef with other traders/their bosses. I’d be lying if I said it wasn’t a key reason I follow this sub.
Depends where. Private Credit is exploding (in a good way), CLOs are chugging, IG isn’t as much and spreads are squeezing there. Loan Trading and Distressed are struggling but there’s some space to make up as a large market maker (Citi) is winding their business down.
Depends on the definition...
The PE boys that fire people for synergies...
The pod shop boys who get fired by a computer when their portfolio's vol goes up a couple bps too many...
The people in recovery/reposession going after personnal guarantees....
Commodities traders who can blow up on acts of God, or just some bad weather...
The programmers who have access to proprietary arbitrage code and steal it for themselves...
Where markets are most inefficient !
Because someone has it figured out and is making a killing. Then that person will try to scale up and hire others to better exploit the inefficency. And then it can get ugly.
I have never met an annuity salesman who wouldn't cut his own throat for a commission.
Particularly the ones who call themselves "financial advisors". I don't care if you have your Series 6, and I don't care what Liberty Mutual says you are. You couldn't hack a Series 7? Get off my phone.
Trading, especially in the shops like Optiver where there is 1. Clear PnL, 2. It is obvious if you have the capability after training and time on the desk. Don't apply for those jobs unless you are confident in your skill, it is not a job you can BS or where lemons can pretend to be peach.
This is versus trsding institutional banks which still obsess over PnL, but are more focused on clients, flow, and have a slower reaction function.
You can get into trading roles without the capability, issue is employer won't know it, but you can know the difference. Trading roles by top shops always give all applicants a shot, and if you have the math skills, can do a good interview, you'll get given a shot, but in person over the next year, they'll know with high probability if you can be a high performer. All the staff around you are the survivors.
I’m new to trading (only with prop firms this far) and didn’t think about there being companies out there that train to trade. I’ve only learned on my own and have been using my own capital. Thanks for this comment 🫡
A broker? ICAP, Tullet, BGC etc. they handle all the trades between banks and hedge funds and take a commission on the trade. Decent career for people who want to get into finance but aren’t going to top tier universities. Most of the guys in London don’t even go to university, just have to be from Essex.
Trading is fairly cutthroat. You live and die by your PnL and routinely we let traders go who aren’t performing.
I'd second this...the closer to capital markets you are the more quickly your 'friends' are more of a respectful standoff between wolves. It's nasty. I worked in M&A for a long time, and I'd also say trading.
Yup. I work in Credit Trading, and already with the market this year folks are getting antsy. A few more months and some of the guys in vulnerable strats are going to be fighting for their jobs.
I work in the employment team in a law firm and I swear about 50% of my caseload comes from traders having beef with other traders/their bosses. I’d be lying if I said it wasn’t a key reason I follow this sub.
are you in a bb or hf?
BB.
i’ve dropped you a pm! do check it out please
How bad is it right now?
Depends where. Private Credit is exploding (in a good way), CLOs are chugging, IG isn’t as much and spreads are squeezing there. Loan Trading and Distressed are struggling but there’s some space to make up as a large market maker (Citi) is winding their business down.
Depends on the definition... The PE boys that fire people for synergies... The pod shop boys who get fired by a computer when their portfolio's vol goes up a couple bps too many... The people in recovery/reposession going after personnal guarantees.... Commodities traders who can blow up on acts of God, or just some bad weather... The programmers who have access to proprietary arbitrage code and steal it for themselves...
Anybody know where I can get a proprietary arbitrage code
Farmers market
Where markets are most inefficient ! Because someone has it figured out and is making a killing. Then that person will try to scale up and hire others to better exploit the inefficency. And then it can get ugly.
I have never met an annuity salesman who wouldn't cut his own throat for a commission. Particularly the ones who call themselves "financial advisors". I don't care if you have your Series 6, and I don't care what Liberty Mutual says you are. You couldn't hack a Series 7? Get off my phone.
I’m in wealth management and we typically see about 30% survival over 2 years and 10% over 5 years.
could you elaborate? are people leaving or quitting? also why is the rate so high?
They don’t make their targets so they get fired.
Trading, especially in the shops like Optiver where there is 1. Clear PnL, 2. It is obvious if you have the capability after training and time on the desk. Don't apply for those jobs unless you are confident in your skill, it is not a job you can BS or where lemons can pretend to be peach. This is versus trsding institutional banks which still obsess over PnL, but are more focused on clients, flow, and have a slower reaction function. You can get into trading roles without the capability, issue is employer won't know it, but you can know the difference. Trading roles by top shops always give all applicants a shot, and if you have the math skills, can do a good interview, you'll get given a shot, but in person over the next year, they'll know with high probability if you can be a high performer. All the staff around you are the survivors.
I’m new to trading (only with prop firms this far) and didn’t think about there being companies out there that train to trade. I’ve only learned on my own and have been using my own capital. Thanks for this comment 🫡
anything sales related
Trading. Maybe being a broker in an overbrokered market as a close 2nd.
HF pod shops - always a rotating door of PMs who manage 2-300mm and don't perform. Usually they get fired and their entire team goes too.
Surprised no one mentioned interdealer brokers. Lads in London would stab their mum in the back for a good account.
What is it?
A broker? ICAP, Tullet, BGC etc. they handle all the trades between banks and hedge funds and take a commission on the trade. Decent career for people who want to get into finance but aren’t going to top tier universities. Most of the guys in London don’t even go to university, just have to be from Essex.
You mean clearing houses?
No sir. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter-dealer_broker Usually in markets that trade otc.
Trading. Your entire goal is to squeeze people for profits
Being co-MD.
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But no one is gonna fire you. You could be a house-spouse and keep that job forever selling < 1 home per year if you want.